Passive Detect Changes

[Monolith]

I really don't care about all this, but their is more things that needs fixed/balanced on this game too. I mean.....are we talking about making Siege more balanced or just nerfing certain skills. Yes....I play a stealth bok temp because TNT lacks the amount of mages in the guild and I'm tired of dying to dismount ganks myself. I hear complaining about dismount ganks but every guild does it to include BFF when they get the opportunity. There is only maybe one or two mages who will even fight solo on this shard.......noone wants to lose their gear in 2 secs from a dismount, with mages massing, along with dexxers. This game is all about different chars complimenting each other on the field. Just for example.......Forsaken and Kage dropped me 3 times in seconds on their mage/mysticism. I never even seen it coming. I was full health, then dead, hehe.

Not everyone can play a mage temp.....does this mean they suck at this game? This game isn't only about playing a mage. This is why this game has so many different chars to choose from....human, elf, gargoyle, and etc to include all the skills to choose from.

I truly beleive if anything gets removed.....it should be dismounting. I'm sure if dismounting was removed, you would see more ppl playing mages and less stealthers. I play stealther because I'm tired of dying to dismount. I came back recently from a year break and died like 5 times on my mage from dismount/Dmare. Yeap....time to retire my mage.

 

[Urin]

But as it is now, you have to cast meteor swarm, earthquake, exp/conflag pots or detect. All of which are easy to avoid if you see it coming.

What's more, these don't even reveal the stealther (with the exception of detect obviously); he/she can just take the damage and remained stealthed.

 

[OldAsTheHills]

Yeah buddy!!!! I love it when you have 100 tracking and the arrow points about 6 steps above where the person is actually standing. Gotta love it. Also, doesn't that tracking just wtfpwn the **** outta everyone. I think it does 100 damage to those that are stealthing.

What does tracking have to do with passive reveal?? now tracking would be super bada$$ if we had passive reveal. Get them on track then run in the general direction they are standing and eventually make them show. But as it is now, you have to cast meteor swarm, earthquake, exp/conflag pots or detect. All of which are easy to avoid if you see it coming.

If you have passive reveal then you will not need Tracking.
If passive reveal occurs on Siege Perilous... I will stop using the now useless
hiding and stealthing skills. Those templates will go away.
There are people who know how to use Tracking well in this game...
Sorry, but my experience with meteor swarm, earthquake, exp/conflag pots,
damage fields, have damaged me in the past...
Only the Reveal spell and Detect Hidden are weak... unproductive against
Gmed Stealthers.

Oh, I am not your buddy...I do not know you.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

 

[Freelsy]

Oh, I am not your buddy...I do not know you.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

HAHA, Sick burn!! Hurts

 

[Turdinator]

Passive reveal doesnt mean you will get revealed 100% of the time. This poll sucks, it is a waste of time to give siege people so many options. Keep it simple stupid, this should be a yay or nay.

I play a stealther on siege and it is way over powered. When I changed back to it, I heard nothing but crying from opposing guilds. It was way to funny.

Also btw the 2 stratics accounts we had are no longer accessable after that wipe or something. I can log into them but I cant post or anything so I created this guy. I named him turdinator because mostly I squish you turds daily.

 

[Freelsy]

If you have passive reveal then you will not need Tracking.
If passive reveal occurs on Siege Perilous... I will stop using the now useless
hiding and stealthing skills. Those templates will go away.
There are people who know how to use Tracking well in this game...
Sorry, but my experience with meteor swarm, earthquake, exp/conflag pots,
damage fields, have damaged me in the past...
Only the Reveal spell and Detect Hidden are weak... unproductive against
Gmed Stealthers.

Oh, I am not your buddy...I do not know you.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

This post is so full of fail I don't know where to start. I'll start with the useless skills of hiding and stealthing. You have no idea what you're talking about. They are still insanley useful. They add damage to deathstrikes and are still able to get around enemy forces. Your comment about tracking. It will still be useful. More useful in my opinion because coupled with passive reveal you can find your enemy and stay on top of him casting spells and trying to get the passive reveal off. Finally, yes the spells do damage you, but don't always reveal you. If they do happen to reveal you, you can just smokebomb away... So pretty easy to avoide there.

But you don't have experience with anything I just posted. You're pvp experience probably consists of evading pks that happen to bump into you while you're out roaming the lands counting houses. Or sitting in the tavern with Kelmo holding hands.

 

[Draxous]

No passive detect on Siege. Those of us who utilize hide and stealth have invested the points and you guys are looking for the easy way to deal with it when you could train detect for just 100 skill points.

Whats that? Oh... It hinders your template you say?

The points we've invested in hide and stealth hinder ours as well.

Some of us choose to play offensive templates and some choose to play defensive templates.

You're asking to have your cake and eat it too. lol

Pretty much.

Would you be willing to go back to the way stealth worked before they changed it? Counting steps, no running, can't stealth unless you use the skill a few seconds after hiding?

Exactly.

The rich and pvp elite in this game came together and against their own self interests support making the items they've earned more available to everyone else so this shard is a better place for everyone.

Stealth, smoke bombs and ninjitsu has been one of the BIGGEST complaints the past 5 years. It's one of the biggest imbalances in PvP AND PvE on this shard. The rich and PvP elite have swallowed their pride and sacrificed their advantages for the betterment of the shard. You as someone who plays stealth templates exclusively abusing the hell out of the imbalances, should do the same.

It's way more important to helping this shard than a blackrock accelerated skill gain which benefits established players who can defend themselves WAY more than any new players that come here.


I have no idea why Bruin posted this thread. This is not a discussion we should be having until we know this is something that is easy to put in.

 

[Draxous]

If you have passive reveal then you will not need Tracking.
If passive reveal occurs on Siege Perilous... I will stop using the now useless
hiding and stealthing skills. Those templates will go away.
There are people who know how to use Tracking well in this game...
Sorry, but my experience with meteor swarm, earthquake, exp/conflag pots,
damage fields, have damaged me in the past...
Only the Reveal spell and Detect Hidden are weak... unproductive against
Gmed Stealthers.

Oh, I am not your buddy...I do not know you.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

This post is so full of fail I don't know where to start. I'll start with the useless skills of hiding and stealthing. You have no idea what you're talking about. They are still insanley useful. They add damage to deathstrikes and are still able to get around enemy forces. Your comment about tracking. It will still be useful. More useful in my opinion because coupled with passive reveal you can find your enemy and stay on top of him casting spells and trying to get the passive reveal off. Finally, yes the spells do damage you, but don't always reveal you. If they do happen to reveal you, you can just smokebomb away... So pretty easy to avoide there.

But you don't have experience with anything I just posted. You're pvp experience probably consists of evading pks that happen to bump into you while you're out roaming the lands counting houses. Or sitting in the tavern with Kelmo holding hands.

This is why I'm not a fan of these polls or this way of addressing in game issues.

Sure everyones opinion counts, but it doesn't bode well that the opinions of people who don't even understand what passive detect is.. hold the same sway as those that do.

You also rarely ever get the proper solution to a problem from a majority vote because most people vote for what will benefit them the most, not what benefits everyone as a whole the most.

The VAST MAJORITY of the players on this shard would not be stealth templates if the classes of characters were equal. People flock to what gives them the most advantages... this has been the biggest complaint of players and the most prevalent template choice because it's more powerful than any other.

/smh

 

[Draxous]

Because this applies (it's from the low-hanging fruit thread):

if you can turn on Passive Detect, if it can be deemed a " piece of low hanging fruit"

Personally I do not want passive detect. Get tracking and detect hidden on your template if you want to counter hiding and stealth. Why should a player investing 175 points in skills be revealed by someone with no investment in the required skills?

Maybe there is an another solution, like flagged players can't smoke bomb or cannot hide for a time. Passive detect is not a fair solution to your problems.

That is total crap.

You run around stealthed and a player with tracking and detect hidden, uses the skill... tracks you and reveals you and then you INSTANTLY hide and stealth away again! Like what the hell was the point of using the skill? To see your beautiful face for a split second?

You do know that the timer between when I can reveal you again is the same timer for when you can hide again. So Ive got you tracked and I'm following you waiting to use the skill again and then I reveal you and you hide again. Awesome.

Lets not even mention clicking yourself with detect hidden is supposed to have an Area of Effect (AoE) around the detector that reveals all hidden people. It does not work effectively even at 100.

Yeah, that sounds like it's balanced.

Smoke bombs, no delay between when you hide and when you can stealth, with the ability to instantly hide after being revealed and with how handicapped the skill detect hidden is.

Yeah, that's sounds like it's balanced.


Passive detect works fine on every other shard and this game is tailored and balanced to it. There's no reason you should be upset about making this game fair to all classes of characters instead of favoring one above the rest. If it is a low-hanging fruit - it needs to be addressed.

 

[Draxous]

Lastly, I voted yes and I don't care if it's permanent or if they come up with something better later.

It is balanced on shards with passive detect.

I want balance.

 

[burdensrise]

Leave stealth the way it is now. If someone wants to cripple there template by adding up to 220 more points just to be invisable. Let them just as with a 200 point counter you can track / detect and destroy any stealther with major ease - Just ask Shay (Can even skip track and use base 20 from human)


Caution
Incoming Flame From Draxous

 

[John Connelly]

To me this discussion is not about smokebomb hide stealth being overpowered but about track and detect hidden being underpowered. If everyone was arguing for improvement in these skills then maybe I would give support. But to ask for 225 skill points to be nullified with no sacrifice is unreasonable and selfish. There is no way I should be getting revealed by someone who is not willing to make adaptations to their own template and get the required skills.

Stealth is powerful. Get the skills to combat it. If these skills are not good enough start a thread for them to be improved, don't come crying for other templates to be nerfed.

 

[Ru TnT]

i voted no, mainly because there are already more than enough ways to effectively neutralize a stealther. if in the future i were to become physically/mentally handicapped or worse, join otf/koc/etc , i might need all the help i could get from passive detect. as of right now though, there is no reason to want them to turn easy mode on...

 

[Ru TnT]

Leave stealth the way it is now. If someone wants to cripple there template by adding up to 220 more points just to be invisable. Let them just as with a 200 point counter you can track / detect and destroy any stealther with major ease - Just ask Shay (Can even skip track and use base 20 from human)

To me this discussion is not about smokebomb hide stealth being overpowered but about track and detect hidden being underpowered. If everyone was arguing for improvement in these skills then maybe I would give support. But to ask for 225 skill points to be nullified with no sacrifice is unreasonable and selfish. There is no way I should be getting revealed by someone who is not willing to make adaptations to their own template and get the required skills.

Stealth is powerful. Get the skills to combat it. If these skills are not good enough start a thread for them to be improved, don't come crying for other templates to be nerfed.

QFT

*waves @ DT and JC*

 

[Kael]

I would be ok with looking at making some modifications to the Stealth skill if EA/Mythic was able to fix a few others.

Resist Magic and poison skills come to mind.

 

[HaHa]

Shh! Thief Template:

100 Stealing
100 Hide
55 Stealth
120 Ninjitsu
95 Wrestle
120 Magery
70 Spellweave
60 Meditation


You'd have to tell me what exactly you want to accomplish, because I can think of any thief template you want-Just remember, you can't have your cake and eat it too!!!

Items: *Assuming non-factions here*
+20 Cloak replica (Siege Bless)
Cursed Shadow Dancer Leggings
Heart of the Lion
Sammy Helm
Event Spell book-10 DCI, SDI, 5 LMC, 2 FCR (blessed)
Totem of the Void
Imbued Sleeves, Gloves, Gorget-HPI, MI, LMC, MR would be nice
1/2 Ring & Bracelet-50 total skill points

That would be a funny template. Pixie pwnage, DS, Fukiyas, Shurikens, Disarm/Stun, Mindblast, Poison...I think that's more then enough to handle your own.

Be creative. Stop looking back and start looking forward. I know you guys like to pretend that my opinions don't exist, but they do and I can actually back them up, can you???

I've played passive detect shards, I've had no problems with them at all. You guys want to talk about easy? This server is supposed to be the harder server, the more SKILLED server, the VET server-Yet you guys want to keep it on easy mode for 80%+ of the server?! Rofl, nice oxymoron there...

I shed a tear of joy thinking about this comment. Stealthers should not have the power they do now. Gerbiler has 100 track and detect and still has to struggle to detect. Its time the stealthers came out and learned something other than sneak attacks. I can vouch for this because I ran crap gear on Gerbiler, who ran stealth and hiding as well, and I rarely died on the character thanks to stealth, ninja, and smokebombs. The entire template itself is over powered.

You run around stealthed and a player with tracking and detect hidden, uses the skill... tracks you and reveals you and then you INSTANTLY hide and stealth away again! Like what the hell was the point of using the skill? To see your beautiful face for a split second?

This comment, srsly, this one. Read it twice. Trust me people. i played a parry mage and an annoying ass ninja/tracker/dismounter/detector/stealther. I can vouch for the stealthing being too gimpish for a shard that was supposed to be a challenging shard. We have people who run around naked and stealthing who can affect PvP against someone with a 5 mill suit on. Thats bull ****.

 

[Ru TnT]

I can vouch for this because I ran crap gear on Gerbiler, who ran stealth and hiding as well, and I rarely died on the character thanks to stealth, ninja, and smokebombs. The entire template itself is over powered.

I can vouch for this, gerbiler rarely lived long on the field if i was around. so much for being overpowered...

 

[HaHa]

Anyone that votes to leave hide/stealth the way it is or to wait until it can be "properly implemented" should have all their accounts with hide/stealth banned immediately and their IP's blocked, their computers impounded and be fitted for mittens--the kind that don't come off.

You left off having their genitals dipped in tobasco sauce.

 

[Monolith]

This is why I'm not a fan of these polls or this way of addressing in game issues.

Sure everyones opinion counts, but it doesn't bode well that the opinions of people who don't even understand what passive detect is.. hold the same sway as those that do.

You also rarely ever get the proper solution to a problem from a majority vote because most people vote for what will benefit them the most, not what benefits everyone as a whole the most.

The VAST MAJORITY of the players on this shard would not be stealth templates if the classes of characters were equal. People flock to what gives them the most advantages... this has been the biggest complaint of players and the most prevalent template choice because it's more powerful than any other.

/smh

QFT

 

[HaHa]

I can vouch for this, gerbiler rarely lived long on the field if i was around. so much for being overpowered...

A few months ago, maybe a year, you made a comment about your template being countered by Gerbiler. The live and die thing dont matter much to me in this game anymore. But I do think putting a set of balls on stealthers now by making it harder for them/us would improve gameplay alot

 

[Draxous]

I can vouch for this because I ran crap gear on Gerbiler, who ran stealth and hiding as well, and I rarely died on the character thanks to stealth, ninja, and smokebombs. The entire template itself is over powered.

I can vouch for this, gerbiler rarely lived long on the field if i was around. so much for being overpowered...

Says the assassin who has to run hide/stealth/ninja in order to compete against... you guessed it! ninja stealthers.


Yeah. Every single player on this shard should be running hide/stealth.

 

[Ru TnT]

A few months ago, maybe a year, you made a comment about your template being countered by Gerbiler. The live and die thing dont matter much to me in this game anymore. But I do think putting a set of balls on stealthers now by making it harder for them/us would improve gameplay alot

your template did counter mine, just as mine did yours. although mine was built more offensively than yours was. i agree with you about the live/die thing, i prefer the thrill of the hunt.

i don't think passive detect will make it harder for the stealthers, i think it'll make it easier for all those people that are too stubborn to learn how to play/lazy to train a skill or two. all it takes is two skills, and maybe an item or two to take away the stealth advantage. so what if they can just hide again, most just take off when a revealers around, and the others become less of a threat once you know they're around. i just don't see why we need passive detect when we already have the tools needed to even the field...

 

[Kat]

Do any of you realize that the detect timer has been cut in half recently? Test it out! The hide/stealth timer is still 10. Anyone that cannot effectively handle a stealther with GM Detect ALONE, has to be borderline ********. Add to that just 20 human tracking and its game over.

 

[Draxous]

i just don't see why we need passive detect when we already have the tools needed to even the field...

When you have to run hide/stealth in order to combat hide/stealth... there is a problem.

You wouldn't be effective at all if you weren't invisible tracking the invisible. They'd see you coming and run away.

That is how many skill points dedicated to effectively fighting someone with stealth?

detect + tracking + hiding + stealth versus hiding + stealth

Passive detect works. It's balanced and this game is tailored to it. It's also quit possibly a low hanging fruit and an opportunity to fix something that is out of wack right here right now.

 

[Ru TnT]

Says the assassin who has to run hide/stealth/ninja in order to compete against... you guessed it! ninja stealthers.


Yeah. Every single player on this shard should be running hide/stealth.

Shay was built to do a job, a job i think she does well, and it's a job i enjoy. does it limit me to just fighting stealthers? nope, but you know that, i've kill you. you must remember it, it was that one time you left the house with less then 5 koc surrounding you...

i think everyone should run hide/stealth, since it seems there's so few with the balls to use track/detect.

 

[Draxous]

Do any of you realize that the detect timer has been cut in half recently? Test it out! The hide/stealth timer is still 10. Anyone that cannot effectively handle a stealther with GM Detect ALONE, has to be borderline ********. Add to that just 20 human tracking and its game over.

LOL. No it hasn't. They are the same.

I'm logged in checking it right now. And there is no difference.

Stealthers use TWO skills one, right after the other without any delay. They break combat flagging rules with smoke bombs. They are able to RUN invisible. Detects AoE doesn't work. The timer between using the skill does not let you detect stealthers. Clicking the ground has no AoE, you have to click EXACTLY where the stealther is to reveal. It's like hitting the bullseye on a dartboard with your eyes closed. You keep pointing towards Ru as a good example of how to counter stealthers, not realizing that Ru too runs hide and stealth because he couldn't counter them if he wasn't abusing the same skill they were.

Passive detect addresses all of this.

Thanks.

 

[Ru TnT]

When you have to run hide/stealth in order to combat hide/stealth... there is a problem.

You wouldn't be effective at all if you weren't invisible tracking the invisible. They'd see you coming and run away.

That is how many skill points dedicated to effectively fighting someone with stealth?

detect + tracking + hiding + stealth versus hiding + stealth

Passive detect works. It's balanced and this game is tailored to it. It's also quit possibly a low hanging fruit and an opportunity to fix something that is out of wack right here right now.

Whoa! So you're saying it is possible to effectively fight someone with stealth??? *waits for the sky to fall*

 

[Draxous]

Says the assassin who has to run hide/stealth/ninja in order to compete against... you guessed it! ninja stealthers.


Yeah. Every single player on this shard should be running hide/stealth.

Shay was built to do a job, a job i think she does well, and it's a job i enjoy. does it limit me to just fighting stealthers? nope, but you know that, i've kill you. you must remember it, it was that one time you left the house with less then 5 koc surrounding you...

i think everyone should run hide/stealth, since it seems there's so few with the balls to use track/detect.

In other words. You need to run hide/stealth in order to "do your job."

 

[Draxous]

When you have to run hide/stealth in order to combat hide/stealth... there is a problem.

You wouldn't be effective at all if you weren't invisible tracking the invisible. They'd see you coming and run away.

That is how many skill points dedicated to effectively fighting someone with stealth?

detect + tracking + hiding + stealth versus hiding + stealth

Passive detect works. It's balanced and this game is tailored to it. It's also quit possibly a low hanging fruit and an opportunity to fix something that is out of wack right here right now.

Whoa! So you're saying it is possible to effectively fight someone with stealth??? *waits for the sky to fall*

Whoa! I'm saying you need hide stealth to fight hide stealth! And look!!!!! you are too!!!!

So everyone should be stealthers! Yeah, that sounds like a fun game to play!

 

[Monolith]

I would be ok with looking at making some modifications to the Stealth skill if EA/Mythic was able to fix a few others.

Resist Magic and poison skills come to mind.

True......your able to cure lethal poison with 1 cure pot. Pretty much nullified that skill except for crafter.

I mean.....there is so much to discuss if we're talking about balancing Siege.

We will need a thread alone on what it would take to balance Siege instead of nerfing stealthers. I'm sure both dexxers and mages will have a different opinion and Not to forget about the other temps too.

1 vs 1....how is stealthing overpowering? I've fought many ppl 1 vs 1 on Monolith and I don't see anything overpowering. I don't use stealthing/hide unless I'm evading dismount gank or even a gank against multiple mages mass casting. I use 120stealth/100hiding primarily for Deathstrike which still takes a lot of mana for a dexxer. Even on my mage....I don't see any stealther overpowering 1 vs 1. Only time a stealther is a pain in the arse is on the field when I'm field fighting and he pops out and dismounts me when I'm not expecting it.

Really....this thread is ridiculous. From what I read.....some ppl are upset that they have a hard time killing a stealther. I mean......killing someone is a matter of opinion too. Hell.....I have a hard time killing anyone 1 vs 1. Fighting other dexxers.....well with the imbuing armor and high DCI, they just run around healing. Fighting mages.....same with imbuing armor and high DCI, they run around and mini heal even if you're able to hit them.

Overall......Siege has a lot of things to consider for balancing and to nerf stealthing immediately or even considered without looking at everything is ridiculous.

 

[Ru TnT]

LOL. No it hasn't. They are the same.

I'm logged in checking it right now. And there is no difference.

Stealthers use TWO skills one, right after the other without any delay. They break combat flagging rules with smoke bombs. They are able to RUN invisible. Detects AoE doesn't work. The timer between using the skill does not let you detect stealthers. Clicking the ground has no AoE, you have to click EXACTLY where the stealther is to reveal. It's like hitting the bullseye on a dartboard with your eyes closed. You keep pointing towards Ru as a good example of how to counter stealthers, not realizing that Ru too runs hide and stealth because he couldn't counter them if he wasn't abusing the same skill they were.

Passive detect addresses all of this.

Thanks.

Are you new or just daft? Maybe try testing something before speaking...

As for me not being able to counter them w/o hide and stealth, thats not true at all. It would be easier playing without them, but its the way I enjoy playing.

 

[Monolith]

Whoa! I'm saying you need hide stealth to fight hide stealth! And look!!!!! you are too!!!!

So everyone should be stealthers! Yeah, that sounds like a fun game to play!

I don't think some of you will be happy unless everyone is a Mage.

Play a stealth mage......I'm sure you don't want to waste roughly 200 points on the two skills needed. I"m sure you rather use the points else where to give you more damage output like mysticism.

 

[Draxous]

As for me not being able to counter them w/o hide and stealth, thats not true at all. It would be easier playing without them, but its the way I enjoy. playing.

No. It's what makes you effective.

If you're going to make claims you have no experience with (such as it being easier playing without hide/stealth) then you're going have to explain your reasoning logically because you have no practical experience with it.

 

[Draxous]

Whoa! I'm saying you need hide stealth to fight hide stealth! And look!!!!! you are too!!!!

So everyone should be stealthers! Yeah, that sounds like a fun game to play!

I don't think some of you will be happy unless everyone is a Mage.

Play a stealth mage......I'm sure you don't want to waste roughly 200 points on the two skills needed. I"m sure you rather use the points else where to give you more damage output like mysticism.

I don't want everyone to be a mage.

Everyones not a mage on every other shard with passive detect, why would you think that?

What I want is for hide/stealth not be so damn overpowered.

 

[Ru TnT]

I don't want everyone to be a mage.

Everyones not a mage on every other shard with passive detect, why would you think that?

What I want is for hide/stealth not be so damn overpowered.

what i want is for you to play a stealther and show me how overpowered it is. c'mon it'll be fun, and don't worry, i rarely loot.

 

[Mook Chessy]

Sorry to my guildmates but I voted yes.

IMHO you should not be able to hide then insta stealth with only 75 stealth. If you have 120 then you should have an advantage but what you can do at 75 is nuts.

Regarding the whole template debate, I'll pass on that one...to each is own. I personally would never play a template that cant stand 1v1.

As I said in the other post it's not hard to see what is overpowered in UO, just take notice of what 75% of the shard does...Stealth, GD, DM, bok bok ( i love this one, a small wooden sword is the best weapon?!?!?!)

I think we all have the cart ahead of the horse, we need to wait on Cal and see if in fact he considers PD LHF (low hanging fruit).

Seacrest out!

 

[Draxous]

I don't want everyone to be a mage.

Everyones not a mage on every other shard with passive detect, why would you think that?

What I want is for hide/stealth not be so damn overpowered.

what i want is for you to play a stealther and show me how overpowered it is. c'mon it'll be fun, and don't worry, i rarely loot.

Run out of ways to downplay how over powered stealth is... have you?

 

[MerchantAtHome]

I don't want everyone to be a mage.

Everyones not a mage on every other shard with passive detect, why would you think that?

What I want is for hide/stealth not be so damn overpowered.

Hide Stealth is a crutch in the same way that faction arties are. It makes no sense to argue than one needs to go and the other needs to stay.

You can lump pets in there too.

 

[Kael]

I would be ok with looking at making some modifications to the Stealth skill if EA/Mythic was able to fix a few others.

Resist Magic and poison skills come to mind.

True......your able to cure lethal poison with 1 cure pot. Pretty much nullified that skill except for crafter.

I mean.....there is so much to discuss if we're talking about balancing Siege.

We will need a thread alone on what it would take to balance Siege instead of nerfing stealthers. I'm sure both dexxers and mages will have a different opinion and Not to forget about the other temps too.

1 vs 1....how is stealthing overpowering? I've fought many ppl 1 vs 1 on Monolith and I don't see anything overpowering. I don't use stealthing/hide unless I'm evading dismount gank or even a gank against multiple mages mass casting. I use 120stealth/100hiding primarily for Deathstrike which still takes a lot of mana for a dexxer. Even on my mage....I don't see any stealther overpowering 1 vs 1. Only time a stealther is a pain in the arse is on the field when I'm field fighting and he pops out and dismounts me when I'm not expecting it.

Really....this thread is ridiculous. From what I read.....some ppl are upset that they have a hard time killing a stealther. I mean......killing someone is a matter of opinion too. Hell.....I have a hard time killing anyone 1 vs 1. Fighting other dexxers.....well with the imbuing armor and high DCI, they just run around healing. Fighting mages.....same with imbuing armor and high DCI, they run around and mini heal even if you're able to hit them.

Overall......Siege has a lot of things to consider for balancing and to nerf stealthing immediately or even considered without looking at everything is ridiculous.

Good post sir

 

[OldAsTheHills]

This post is so full of fail I don't know where to start. I'll start with the useless skills of hiding and stealthing. You have no idea what you're talking about. They are still insanley useful. They add damage to deathstrikes and are still able to get around enemy forces. Your comment about tracking. It will still be useful. More useful in my opinion because coupled with passive reveal you can find your enemy and stay on top of him casting spells and trying to get the passive reveal off. Finally, yes the spells do damage you, but don't always reveal you. If they do happen to reveal you, you can just smokebomb away... So pretty easy to avoide there.

But you don't have experience with anything I just posted. You're pvp experience probably consists of evading pks that happen to bump into you while you're out roaming the lands counting houses. Or sitting in the tavern with Kelmo holding hands.

I knew the self centered people of the Community on Siege Perilous want
just what they want for themselves and only for themselves...

The Community is not an inclusive group but an exclusive group...appears to
me they want only Pvping on the shard.

I really hate this move toward Passive Detect for it only helps those in Pvping.

Lord Bruin made a mistake creating this Poll and continue this view that
Hiding and Stealth is a problem for the game.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

 

[Kage]

what i want is for you to play a stealther and show me how overpowered it is. c'mon it'll be fun, and don't worry, i rarely loot.

I bet I could destroy you stealther vs. stealther. And considering I rarely play a dexer pretty much shows that it's very over powered especially while be used by a person who knows the game mechanics better than the back of his hand....

 

[Draxous]

Kael - that was a good post by mono, but he misconstrues things in there. 1 poison potion = many poisons, but 1 cure pot = 1 cure. If it was as he suggests, what would stop people from spamming poison over and over again?

The biggest reason that's a problem today is when they changed potions to being stackable, it had the unintended consequence of allowing people to carry many more potions than they used to. Now you can easily carry 50 greater cures and 50 greater heals and 50 total refresh. It would be impossible to have done that before because you just exceeded the item cap your backpack allows by 25... and that's not including anything else you'd be carrying. Before, poisoning was about wearing down your opponent until you could take advantage of the power poison gives you (essentially removing your opponents ability to heal.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The way players have abused sieges special rules for stealth has caused the majority of this shard to pick up those skills, has caused countless people to quit because it's not fun or fair to anyone who wants to play something else, has caused new players to come here and wonder where the people who play here are because they don't see them and has caused players to focus more on avoiding interacting with each other.


Take a look at what we're telling new people who come here asking where are all the people!?!?!?

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=211859

Definitely join a guild. Most guild communication occurs via Ventrilo, so if you are wanting to get a group together for a spawn or peerless or something, you'll need it.

Most people on siege who you might "run into" are either pk's or they run hiding/stealth or both.

If you don't believe me, go farm in Blighted grove for a few hours. You are guaranteed to find someone. Don't take anything you can't afford to lose.

Use the global chat system. Sometimes, some posters are very annoying, but you can use the filter system in the options menu to ignore them. Many of the posters are quite friendly and helpful.

You guys think this is good for the shard? You think it's good for new players who come here hoping to see an active community, but instead see nobody because the MAJORITY of players here are invisibile?

This problem is more than just about balance.

 

[Draxous]

This post is so full of fail I don't know where to start. I'll start with the useless skills of hiding and stealthing. You have no idea what you're talking about. They are still insanley useful. They add damage to deathstrikes and are still able to get around enemy forces. Your comment about tracking. It will still be useful. More useful in my opinion because coupled with passive reveal you can find your enemy and stay on top of him casting spells and trying to get the passive reveal off. Finally, yes the spells do damage you, but don't always reveal you. If they do happen to reveal you, you can just smokebomb away... So pretty easy to avoide there.

But you don't have experience with anything I just posted. You're pvp experience probably consists of evading pks that happen to bump into you while you're out roaming the lands counting houses. Or sitting in the tavern with Kelmo holding hands.

I knew the self centered people of the Community on Siege Perilous want
just what they want for themselves and only for themselves...

The Community is not an inclusive group but an exclusive group...appears to
me they want only Pvping on the shard.

I really hate this move toward Passive Detect for it only helps those in Pvping.

Lord Bruin made a mistake creating this Poll and continue this view that
Hiding and Stealth is a problem for the game.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

That is not true.

Couple this change with the boosts to monster loot, avoiding other players in order to survive and save items will be less important. People will have more incentives to say hi to, rather than hide from an unfamiliar face that wanders on their screen when they are out and about in the world.

We should all want to promote players interacting with each other. Passive detect does not stop players from being stealthers at all. What it does is reduce a players ability to abuse stealth.

You are a good man and one that I've enjoy interacting with. If there is more incentive for people to interact, that means people like me will find more enjoyment by interacting with people like you.

 

[Kael]

or you can view it as one cure pot = 80+ skill points in poison wasted

I think the idea of these polls by Bruin and co is to try to get a sense of community opinion and compromise to better serve Siege. A fair amount of people don't agree with silver pricing being lowered...but they may compromise as they like the thought advance char tokens.

So far its obvious in this thread there is no compromise...just a nerf on stealth/hide that benefits some and hinders others. Perhaps people should move on to other ideas that benefit the population as a whole.

 

[Draxous]

I think we all have the cart ahead of the horse, we need to wait on Cal and see if in fact he considers PD LHF (low hanging fruit).

This.

 

[Draxous]

or you can view it as one cure pot = 80+ skill points in poison wasted

or you could view a heal pot as negating 300+ skill points in fencing, tactics and anatomy. or a trapped box as negating weapon skill and tactics or eval and magery... so what?

So far its obvious in this thread there is no compromise...just a nerf on stealth/hide that benefits some and hinders others. Perhaps people should move on to other ideas that benefit the population as a whole.

Perhaps people should move on to other games or shards while the population dwindles to a handful of people who love being able to abuse hiding/stealth so much.

Oh... wait.

 

[Turdinator]

, there is no reason to want them to turn easy mode on...

Easy mode, droppin a smoke bomb is like pressing the easy button for pvp. And dont say it isnt. I killed a tnt right infront of you the other day. All you did was stand there looking at me. Sure you revealed once than I managed to hide and evade the lot of ya with ease. It is a different game when the person you trying to reveal has 100 hide 120 stealth.

 

[HoldenCaulfield]

I think people are ignoring the difference between stealth used for thievery and stealth used in pvp.

Ideally I would like to see a solution where perhaps your skill in stealing enhances stealth so that it is not passively detected whereas if you just have stealth for pvp with no stealing it is calculated differently. (similar to how eval enhances magery).

I do not want to see thieves hurt by this change, even though I do not play one, this seems to be their only shard where they can use their playstyle effectively.

 

[Kael]

or you can view it as one cure pot = 80+ skill points in poison wasted

or you could view a heal pot as negating 300+ skill points in fencing, tactics and anatomy. or a trapped box as negating weapon skill and tactics or eval and magery... so what?

So far its obvious in this thread there is no compromise...just a nerf on stealth/hide that benefits some and hinders others. Perhaps people should move on to other ideas that benefit the population as a whole.

Perhaps people should move on to other games or shards while the population dwindles to a handful of people who love being able to abuse hiding/stealth so much.

Oh... wait.

Would that same person who has moved on to another game/shard still be posting here??

oh...wait he is

 

[Draxous]

Would that same person who has moved on to another game/shard still be posting here??

oh...wait he is

Is posting on a forum or playing on the shard more important.

oh... wait.