I skimmed down through the thread and copied ideas for the Classic Shard that stood out. It's fairly long.
What are the thoughts on it's content from people not at either unchangable extreme end of the discussion?
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Here are some key things that make up a classic shard:
1: No AOS combat items
2: No PowerScrolls
3: One ruleset (both fel and tram versions in fact are needed)
4: Revert of Resisting spells skill
5: 14 day house decay timer
6: Texas Law Housing rules IE: no private houses (but can include custom houses)
7: no X-fers on or off, no advanced characters
8: Chaos, Order
9: Classic client Use only
10: No insurance
11: - Expanded guard zones. Not so good for one reason, it would encroach on areas for housing placement near towns.
12: - Random wandering NPCs that attacked only reds placed at PK hotspots. And to add to the immersion of the world, each town could dispatch their own unique Red hunter NPC patrols. Like Trinsic would dispatch patrols of paladins, Britain would dispatch knights, Vesper would dispatch mariner mercenaries. Stuff like that. The NPCs would also have to be really strong, like old school ogre lord strong. And the groups would consist of melee and ranged combatants.
13: One character goes red, all characters on the account go red. No, and heres why. Blue PKs. You know, those jerks who would run through your fire field and turn you grey. If you kill them, you go red. So, no, too much potential for ass-h****s to abuse.
14: Real time jail terms for PKs. Interesting idea. It could be the result of getting nailed by the guards. Or, the result of getting captured by blue players.
Example: Instead of being killed when their health hits 0, the red is incapacitated and cannot move, fight, or use anything in the backpack, but still fully lootable. This way, the player who kills them still gets to loot all of their stuff and they wont have anything to escape with from jail. While incapacitated, blue players could use craftable shackles (made by blacksmiths, go player crafted items!) and apprehend the red player. the red players character would then become like a follower and follow the blue player to the nearest dugeon for arrest. Once there, the blue player talks to a jailor NPC and the red player is then teleported to a vacant cell to serve out a certain amount of time dependent on how many murder they have commited.
However, to balance things out, the red could be sprung by someone if the blue transporting them gets killed before they can get them to the jail.
15: Perma death for reds that reached a certain number of murders and were killed. No perma death. However, making it so that they cannot be rezed for an extended amount of time, say, a month if they are perma red, should cut it.
16: Better incentives for anti-PK guilds. Like what kind of incentives? Perhaps specially marked clothing or titles? Dye tubs? Stuff like that is okay. Nothing that can affect gameplay though.
17: Guards that could be killed, rather than the one hit your dead guards that we have, guards should have appeared, ran up and attacked the player, allowing players to fight off the guards, but other players would run up and help this guards, this would have added more to the excitement of PvP.
18: There would need to be a way to make sure that consenting PvP didn't record as a murder though. If I (as a blue) went in after a PKer who just won't let up, he shouldn't get a murder count if he wins. I accepted the risk by going after him. Some kind switch & indicator that shows my character has PvP intentions would need to be added.
19: First off trammel is gone, its is now Britannia.
The lands will be divided into noncon/safe areas think WoW on this.
Most open land will be NoNcon PvP say 70-80%
all anti virtue dungeons will be noncon
all virtue dungeons will be "safe"
All remaining dungeons will be evenly divided between Noncon/safe.
All Cities will be considered safe except Bucs and maybe 1 more.
the mountains will be considered "safe" around Minoc (so miners/mules can gather in safety) but resources will be 1x in safe areas 2x in non safe areas.
Reds can go anywhere but are subject to attack in "safe areas" and only if attacked in a "safe" area can they defend themselves and kill a blue. In non safe areas reds and blues can attack anyone.
If your in Chaos/Order, Factions, Warring guild, Red there is no safe place.
Drawbacks to being RED, Not able to keep blessed/newbie items, Stat/Skill loss upon each death brought on by a player. Not allowed to use NPC's except for bankers in Safe citys. Subject to attack anywhere.
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20: I have several ideas on how to deal with PKing:
- Expand guardzones where necessary to cut down on PK choke points. One of the biggest issues back in the old days was that PKs would essentially take over certain areas...especially around moongates and the entrances and exits to the towns. As I recall, Moongates were not even originally under guard protection. That was changed within the first few days. Also, you used to not come out of the moongates invisible either. Which when combined with lag, meant you were robbed blind before you even saw your character by thieves.
- Add wandering NPC guards or soldiers. Someone in the thread, or another one, suggested making them unique to each town. I like that idea. Make them aggressive to reds only, and make them tough...like Lich Lord tough. It's cool if they have some loot on them...the reds might actually see the value in PvM that way.
- Include the ideas that Kaleb mentioned...stat loss for reds, newbie/blessed items drop to corpse for reds, reds not allowed in towns besides Buc's Den, NPC won't do business with reds besides in Buc's Den, wandering healers won't rez reds...they have to have a mage do it, or go to the chaos shrine...that's how it used to be.
- I think that murder counts should only 'burn off' if the character is alive. Standing by a moongate as a ghost while you sleep is not a disincentive, its a mild inconvenience.
- Bring back the bounty system, but find a way to make it so that it is not exploitable. How do you do this? ...
...Have an NPC with which players can register as bounty hunters. If you are not registered as a bounty hunter, you cannot collect bounties. To register, you have to agree that if any of the characters on your account goes red, you lose your status as a bounty hunter. If your character heals, cures, buffs a red player, you lose your status as a bounty hunter...and you go grey yourself for a certain period of time. But...bounty hunters play by the same rules as reds...stat loss, newbie items drop to corpse, etc. If you don't want to run with the dogs, stay on the porch. Also bounty hunters are freely attackable by reds, and they do not get murder counts for killing bounty hunters.
- Bring back Order/Chaos. With Order/Chaos...the opposite is freely attackable OUTSIDE guardzones...and none of the above conditions apply. But, an Order/Chaos member that goes red can no longer participate in Order/Chaos. Also, non Order/Chaos players cannot heal or cure or buff Order/Chaos players.
- *IF* these things don't keep PKing from causing lack of retention on the shard, then look into harsher options.
Personally, I think the above would be enough. If not, add jail time for PKs that die with x number of murder counts or more. That character would not be playable for a certain length of time based on the number of counts.
If that didn't do it, add in the "One goes Red, they all go Red" clause...meaning that every character on the account goes red if one does.
And finally, if none of that works, put in perma death for reds over a certain number of counts.
Those are my ideas on how to curtail, but not eliminate PKing. I think it would be enough without the harsher options mentioned near the bottom...but I would rather see the harsher options than Trammel or a PvP Switch.
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21: Does this mean you want reds running through towns without guards being able to be called? I think that is a no-no, but maybe I misunderstood
Sure why not? If they cant attack anyone w/o being G-wacked, why limit them to the boarders? the only time they would be able to fight is if they were attacked in the GZ. The only reasons they would be in town would be to
A: Use the bank
B: In a battle, Faction, been attacked
c: Buying items from other players, though chances are if they stepped foot in town a dozen or more blues will attack them anyway.
There are many ways we can penalize a player for being a Murderer, but that doesn't mean we should throw in ways to make them social misfits. Yes, Playing a PK should be hard, but not so easy to where were flooded with PK's. Even to this day and age of UO i feel reds should be able to travel anywhere, but cannot attack anyone outside fel, but outside fell they could be attacked, and fight back if the situation arises. Same as I feel Factions should be able to fight anywhere in any land of todays UO.
22: Project title: "Just Justice"
Part 1:
A red gets killed. Hes got 10 kills on his character. Therefore, he wont be able to rez for 10 days. # of kills = how many days you cant rez. After the resurrection penalty is up and you rez, your character will suffer a 40.0% loss in your highest skills and a -40 to your two highest stats.
Part 2:
When you go red and someone beats you down to 0 health. Instead of dying, you are rendered incapacitated and bleeding out. While incapacitated, players will be free to loot you of everything you have in your backpack. If you are somehow incapacitated by a monster, it will simply smash your head and kill you. While on the ground, one of 6 things can happen:
-1.) You bleed out after 45 seconds and die
-2.) A player uses and bladed item to cut your throat and finish you off
-3.) A blue player can use blacksmith crafted shackles on you.
-4.) Someone can heal and revive you. (with minimal health)
-5.) A monster simply finishes you off (Only if downed by a monster)
-6.) Animals (like wolves, panthers, bears or other carnivors) will eat you leaving only bones, thus speeding up your corpse decay.
Part 3:
If shackled, your character will revive but will be uncontrolable. It will auto follow the player who captured you to whatever desintaion they so choose, even through a moongate. Your character will revive with minimal health, mana, and stamina.
Part 4:
If the player who captured you takes you to a town with a prison, your character will be placed in a prison cell and stripped of all items on the character when your captor speaks to a jailor NPC at the local prison. While shackled, a red player can be led into town, but is unattackable, nor can they attack anyone else.
Part 5:
Shackling only lasts for so long. After one hour, the red will manage to slip their bindings and will regain full control of their character. Also, a player with lockpicking skill will be able to free a red should they kill the captor.
Part 6:
While shackled, you cannot use any items in your backpack or cast any spells. Also while shackled, your health, mana, and stamina will not recover. You will also not be able to be healed while shackled.
Part 7:
If imprisoned, you will serve 1 day for every kill you have. You will also be fined 1000 gold for every murder count. If the player does not have the gold, they will serve off the fine with one extra hour added to their sentence for every 1gp of the fine they do not have in their bank box.
Example: A murderer has 10 murder counts against them. They will be fined 10,000 gold. The murderer has no gold in their bank to try and cheat the system. Therefore, 10,000 extra hours will be added to their sentence.
Part 8:
After you complete your sentence, you will be turned blue and stripped of all fame and karma, reset to neutral. Also as a result of being in prison for so long, you will suffer a 40.0% loss to your highest skills and -40 to your highest stats.
Part 9:
The only way to serve out either the no rez death penalty or the prison sentence, the character must be logged in. If logged out, the timers will not decrease.
Part 10:
To avoid these harsh penalties, Red players must seek out an unattackable Magistrate located near each virtue shrine. To wipe the slate clean, they must pay a massive fine of over 500,000 gp and accept a 30.0% loss to their highest skills and a -30 to their highest stats.
Part 11:
Reds will be able to wait off murder counts if they do not die. However, this only applies up till 5 murder counts in a row. Get 5 murder counts, and you go perma red. At which point, the only way to become blue is to pay 500,000 gold to a magistrate, or get arrested and serve off their counts in prison. Each murder count will take 3 days to wait off.
Part 12:
If you kill once, you got grey. While grey, if you kill again, it beings your official time as a murderer. The grey penalty for killing will last for 12 hours and must be waited off while logged in on that character.
24: What happens if we limit accounts to one character on the classic shard, a la Siege?
I wouldn't be a huge fan of this, but it might interesting. Only the most dedicated player-killers would go red with their one character (or get another account $$$). In addition, this would make the community (and especially crafters) much stronger.
If this is too extreme, more simply, perhaps make it so that accounts with red characters can't own houses (and if characters on an account own a house at the time one of the characters goes red, it begins to decay). This would force reds into a kind of outlaw situation. Also make it so these characters can't be friends of houses either, so they can't just have a blue account buy one for them, friend them, etc. It's been ten years, so I may be forgetting how the housing system worked back then with friends and the like (post-keys, I mean).
Anyway, such quick fixes would discourage the players who spend a few days building a character and then go red on a whim, just to grief.
25: So to me a "classic" server is based around the original Item,Combat,Skill systems, no trammel, No power/stat scrolls, No insurance, No Private Housing/Old school Texas law housing, 14-21 day house fall timer(I only say 21 due to PRS#2 deciding 21 days is better than 14), no jewelry with any any kind of buff, No soulstones, No advanced characters, no Shard-xfers except from a like shard Say Classic east to Classic West
But not limited to (using PRS2 as a main source)
Custom housing
BoD's, though to get this to work PRS#2 had to give smiths and tailors Powerscrolls to be able to fill the higher end bods easier.
Commodity deeds
Current Vet rewards except Soulstones
plants
Decor items/house addons
factions (extremely popular during UO:R when you could fight anywhere)
Quests
Lands/dungeons
Various bug/exploit fixes
Some of the new Critters and bosses(Like PRS#2 has Champspawns in T2A that only drop the piles of gold think its 420k, and the basic corpse loot drops, hard as hell to complete but very fun).
Runic weapons/armor. while at first I thought was unbalancing I realized playing PRS#2 that is not the case, Item Bless deeds made runic weapons unbalancing on prodo shards, with out item bless deeds runic weaps are great for the crafter they wear out/break, looted, lost on corpse but not so overpowerd where loot items become obsolete.
Stackable items.
The list can go on and on, I don't see as long as they stay true to the original concept of UO how modernizing it would hurt it at all, It is not unbalancing to Combat/Gameplay, Gives every playstyle something to do, With a more Modern "classic" shard we would be more likely to bring in players who have only played AOS-SA. I know quite a few people who started playing UO just for the custom housing.
We can be greedy and say just make it 2nd age (I would enjoy that server also), But that wouldn't be fair for other players and make it a bit more difficult to bring in current/new players. In the big picture only a few things hurt the current UO
Penalties removed from PK's
Trammel (dont get me wrong trammel was needed but not combined with the shards like they are now)
PowerScrolls
AOS
Insurance
Private Housing
Soulstones
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The thread is getting close to 350 posts. Let's see if we can get a rough draft of a Classic Shard compromise together by post 400.
The removal of anything AOS is apparently settled. There not being a Tram in any way shape or form is close to settled. The need to control PKing is accepted by most. Whether or not to include non-AOS later additions is up in the air yet.
Anyone open to a compromise on the Classic Shard want to chime in and help this cause? 
