Power scroll availability

[popps]

I've heard countless times how pvp in itself is its own reward. It's not about the items or the loot. Whatever. The minute someone suggests a way to get powerscrolls in Trammel, the tune changes. Power scrolls are an important part of building a character, regardless of the facet a person prefers. It is really inexcusable to allow something this important to be dominated by one facet and one playstyle. Another thing that bothers me is that by buying powerscrolls, I know for a fact that I am supporting a playstyle and a system tht I have grown to resent. Since it's obvious items really are important to pvpers, the system needs to be set up to reward those that pvp without negatively impacting those that do not.

Exactly

 

[Trebr Drab]

Because some players enjoy the PVP aspect of the game which most trammies forget was a huge part of original UO and was toned down to accommodate those who do not enjoy the playstyle by introducing the trammel facet.

The reason for PvP should be the challenge to fight versus a NON computer run opponent (that is why it is called PvP, player versus player....).

This means, that the ONE REASON for PvP should NOT be over items (namely powerscrolls....) but SIMPLY and MERELY to have a fight that is more challenging than fighting a computer run opponent.

Unfortunately, at least to my opinion, Champion Spawns are hardly this.

No item in the game should be exclusively obtainable through PvP.

Those who wish to PvP should do it simply and exclusively for the challenge of fighting another human rather than a computer run opponent and never ever because of any item.

I have heard too many times the argument that Felucca was deserted of players and "something" was needed to bait players into it so that other players could have opponents to fight.

I am sorry, but this is not the kind of honorable PvP I would like.

Players, IMHO, should fight players for the sake of it (that is the greater challenge), not because of any item.

Well said and agreed. But it's funny, when PS's stopped drawing people, Fel pretty much died. These people aren't fooling anyone anymore. It wasn't about PvP, it was about controlling a very lucrative market and need. Nothing more.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I've heard countless times how pvp in itself is its own reward. It's not about the items or the loot. Whatever. The minute someone suggests a way to get powerscrolls in Trammel, the tune changes. Power scrolls are an important part of building a character, regardless of the facet a person prefers. It is really inexcusable to allow something this important to be dominated by one facet and one playstyle. Another thing that bothers me is that by buying powerscrolls, I know for a fact that I am supporting a playstyle and a system tht I have grown to resent. Since it's obvious items really are important to pvpers, the system needs to be set up to reward those that pvp without negatively impacting those that do not.

Exactly

Yep. UO needs to get a grip on this control by a subset of players. Or the lights will continue to dim.

 

[popps]

I won't wait for the Rainbow's End to cast it's gold my way.

I don't either and infact my discussion about powerscrolls availability is not about myself.

I am fine in the game with what I have and need to play it, but I do am concerned about other players, particularly new players or returning players and I feel that this system is just flat out wrong and should be changed.

If the rules about powerscrolls where changed tomorrow and made them available in Trammel it would not affect me a tiny bit as my characters are scrolled for my needs.

I am concerned because I feel that it costs more subscriptions to the game than it may bring thus having, so to speak, a negative balance in the end.

 

[popps]

a big warning... without raiders and pkers all of the above is pointless and uo would lose its magik... so please cherish your foes and remember... they are the ones that make all of this... a challenge.

otherwise this would be a grinding game... boring, boring...

The clashes and the PvP fights are fine, only, they should not happen over items, but simply for the sake of fighting and clashing against human beings rather than computer run MoBs.

For the challenge and for the glory of it, NOT for items.

Items should be freely obtainable by any and all players whether they want or not to PvP.

There's already too much greed and profit mind thinking in this game, it should be about time that players did something JUST FOR THE FREAKING FUN OF IT, rather than to get a profit out of it..........

That's my thinking.

 

[popps]

Maybe, just maybe, we might show compassion toward others even if we wouldn't do what they chose to do. We can't know from the original post, but maybe the guy who quit had a lot more going wrong in his life beside that single PvP episode. Seeing his rl trouble mirrored in a game might have been the real issue behind his decision to quit. But I dunno. Just sayin'.

Yeah.
Yall need to learn to RESPECT others.

It was my friend you people were talking about. So if you're disrespectin' him, it pisses me off. Yall have absolutely no way to size him up.

If yall can't understand why somebody might not want to continue playing after that, you are either sadistic, soulless or completely addicted.

And popps (if you actually read his posts) was talking about how the issue that I think my story illustrates well. What made you disrespect him? Grow up.

Those who should read through the lines of the posts are the Developers.

The job of the Developers is to strenghten THE GAME through its subscriptions and NOT cater one side or the other of players.

Therefore, THEIR responsibility is to analyze a given game feature and figure out whether it cost more subscriptions than it brings and, if it does, then they MUST change the way that feature works if they want to ensure better health for the game they are responsible for.

The hardest part of the job is figuring out before much harm is done what are the consequences, either way, of any given feature of the game.

The sooner they figure it out and change it the less harm is done to the game.

Powerscrolls ?

I am convinced that they have harmed and are harming subscriptions because they deter more players from playing the game than those who like it the way it is.

Of course, it is merely a "guts" feeling I have through playing the game and talking to fellow players who left it or are not interested in coming back (let's not forget the argument of the OP of this thread.......).

The developers though, might have the raw numbers (or at least I would hope) to tell them how big an issue powerscrolls might be (because of the way they currently work) and whether they end up costing a negative subscriptions' balance for the game.

Personally, I would like OTHER reasons for players to PvP than over items, any items and I wished the Developers might come up with other ingenuous solutions for the game we play to have players engage in PvP just for the challenge, the glory, for its sake, rather than for items, profit or insurance revenues......

 

[mbraud4]

Just because PVP is for fun, does not mean it should not entitle its own rewards as well. Popps this point has been argued over and over in your last thread, please stop running this thread along with your personal agenda.

 

[mbraud4]

Ok here lets end this. This is a repeat of a repeat of a repeat of a repeat. OP please use the search function to find the past 2 or 3 locked threads on this subject. The same 3 lines of information have been posted 100 or so times in each thread. No point in letting the 4th continue. Popps you should no better by now about egging the thread on and on...

So on that note...

/thread

 

[lupushor]

Hail all,
I'm not usually eager to impose my oppinions, but spending a lot of time reading this fun post - which spawned too many ideas and feelings in my head - made me write some of them down.
Just to be clear, I play on Catskills, under the name of Wolfy of GRI. I'm a trammie by choice and not ashamed to admit it lol.

1. There is no such thing as a powerscroll monopoly. It would be the case if the bosses would have contracts with only a handful of people to drop powerscrolls on them only (like computer dealers had contracts to only
sell units with a certain program installed and no other). Reducing the problem to basics : shard opens, spawn starts, a random player logs in - can this player go there and try to defeat the spawn ? - does this player have the same % chance to receive a 120 scroll if successful ?
Please let's be honest and answer these questions to ourselves. I do not think the system provides a monopoly but merely a competition. The fact that some people get most of the *loot* means they are winning this competition while others do not.
Taking this further as analysing the game : is this the only competition this game has to offer us? no, i believe that this game is balanced enough so that anybody can choose a competition he/she can win.
To support this i can tell you i only been to a couple of spawns where i ended up with nothing, while all my chars are stiffed with powerscrolls i bought from trading profits.

So dear Pitr , when you say you break the powerscoll monopoly i hope it's just propaganda and you do not really believe that. Again, there is no monopoly and the Alliance will not be the next monopoly-guild for that matter. The Alliance is only a team in this competition and may win some games and lose others.


2. I believe Popps is wrong. Many people attacked him wrongfully but one of them really nailed it right. You do give a communist speech. (and I should know, i live in Romania). You may try to deny it but your heart is red. Problem with communism is that the theory rocked while the reality s...ed.
Communism is impossible to implement due to human nature. It may work for ants or bees but not us. You said something like "I have to work 10 hours for the money a spawner makes in 30mins". This sounds like "I'm an accountant and make 20$ per hour while my shrink cousin makes 400$ per hour".
You may not believe it now, but a world in which a doorman makes the same salary as a rocket scientist is actually worse, take my word for it.

And this somehow brings me back to Pitr . Friend, keep things fun and simple. Fight the spawns with honor and respect everyone, as the "person with lesser intelligence" Ori said (*bows deeply to Ori and her amazing display of self-control and open-mindness*). Stop turning this into a holy war.
Because it ain't and if anything goes wrong it will be the prophet's fault . Cos when ally members sell 120 magery for 19 mils ("but, hey!, it's 1mil cheaper than the <bad guys>") this is not holy but liberal economy. And if this somehow leads to a decrease in numbers of scrolls they may even get more expensive.


I think this thread is fun but far from being a real issue. Real issue of this game and of it's poor management is and always has been cheating. I do believe a duper is more wealthy than a PvPer-Spawn-God. Sometimes they may overlap but hope "yall" understand my point.
And Pitr's "economical sanctions" should be directed towards known and proven cheaters, not the "powerscrolls monopoly-holders". Cos if you end up imposing sanctions to an honest PvPer that wins his fights, then it will be just like me saying "I don't like the color on that vendor house, please stop buying from there" - even if i'm an architect and some houses colors are really weird, i still find the idea ridiculous.

Cheers all and enjoy UO!


(last minute edit to Popps, cos you said you are concerned about the new players access to powerscrolls : "well i am a vet player and i really-really-really want a 2-story statue. A 2-story statue would complete me. Devs! have them spawn in Tram, in large numbers, prefferable somewhere near my house.")

 

[popps]

Just because PVP is for fun, does not mean it should not entitle its own rewards as well. Popps this point has been argued over and over in your last thread, please stop running this thread along with your personal agenda.

Just as a reminder, it is possible to ignore other posters if one is not willing to read their posts.....

One thing is ignoring a poster's posts, another is deciding that a game issue important to many must be taboo and not discussable.

This thread is titled "Powerscrolls availability" and that is what is being discussed, precisely, whether their availability is as it should be, or not.

Different players of course would offer different opinions on the matter as it is normal to be, since people CAN have varying opinions on the issue.......

I cannot figure why it bothers some so much that this issue might be discussed.

 

[mbraud4]

Popps obviously you must have half of the stratics users on "ignore" because many people have told you what a fool and your foolish ideas have been, but it is like talking to a wall, except sometimes you lead me to belive a wall might be a tad bit more on the intelligent side...sorry. If you don't like my posts then dont read them and ignore me. Take your own advice, or take mine...either way the world will be a better place.

 

[popps]

(last minute edit to Popps, cos you said you are concerned about the new players access to powerscrolls : "well i am a vet player and i really-really-really want a 2-story statue. A 2-story statue would complete me. Devs! have them spawn in Tram, in large numbers, prefferable somewhere near my house.")

As in regards to the comunist analogy, may I respectfully point that this is a GAME, not real life ?

We are not in need to train doctors and rocket scientists here for the advancement of mankind in the game, the goal is simply to have all paying subscribers have their fun out of the money they pay.

Neither this is a hardness training camp of some sort.

It is only and merely a GAME.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Powerscrolls, and I come to the 2 storey statue you mention, is an item deemed by many as very much needed to advance game play.

A 2 storey Statue, while being it nice to have it, I do not think can get anywhere near the usefullness of 120 powerscrolls for so many players.

Therefore, designing the game in a way that a plethora of players are cut out from earning their own powerscrolls because of other players, might hurt the game more than help it, IMHO.

The issue at stake is not whether or not players should have powerscrolls handed out to them.

The issue is that powerscrolls should be treated like any other item in the game and players be freely able to obtain them through hunting, NOT buying, EVEN IF they do not wish to engage in PvP.

Why ?

Because they pay for the game, for ALL OF THE GAME not excluded the ability to hunt for powerscrolls.........

PvP needs something to be fought over ?

Make it for honorable titles, make it for rewarding the top PvPers of the month a free month of playing, but definately, I do not think that PvP should be fought over items like powerscrolls which might end up costing to the game, players' subscriptions more than those they might bring in.

I hope I can have my opinion on this one issue and voice it, can't I ?

 

[Capt.E]

I can agree to the fact that PS are relatively expensive. 120 magery is a rare drop however. I would liken it to getting an ornament of the magi in doom. I usually spawn with about 3 other players. We get raided, we lose spawns, and we continue to spawn.

On the other hand, my first 4 characters were suited and scrolled through doom arties and pvm rares.

Like anything that is worth getting, you have to work for it.

Part of the attraction to UO for me is that there are so many alternatives to how and what I do in the game. There are a million paths to achieve a 120 magery.

The reason they are so expensive is that they are rare. Nothing more, nothing less. Like any of the rare items, they should be priced accordingly.

 

[mbraud4]

As in regards to the comunist analogy, may I respectfully point that this is a GAME, not real life ?

We are not in need to train doctors and rocket scientists here for the advancement of mankind in the game, the goal is simply to have all paying subscribers have their fun out of the money they pay.

Neither this is a hardness training camp of some sort.

It is only and merely a GAME.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Powerscrolls, and I come to the 2 storey statue you mention, is an item deemed by many as very much needed to advance game play.

A 2 storey Statue, while being it nice to have it, I do not think can get anywhere near the usefullness of 120 powerscrolls for so many players.

Therefore, designing the game in a way that a plethora of players are cut out from earning their own powerscrolls because of other players, might hurt the game more than help it, IMHO.

The issue at stake is not whether or not players should have powerscrolls handed out to them.

The issue is that powerscrolls should be treated like any other item in the game and players be freely able to obtain them through hunting, NOT buying, EVEN IF they do not wish to engage in PvP.

Why ?

Because they pay for the game, for ALL OF THE GAME not excluded the ability to hunt for powerscrolls.........

PvP needs something to be fought over ?

Make it for honorable titles, make it for rewarding the top PvPers of the month a free month of playing, but definately, I do not think that PvP should be fought over items like powerscrolls which might end up costing to the game, players' subscriptions more than those they might bring in.

I hope I can have my opinion on this one issue and voice it, can't I ?

By the way, did you say that you are a member of the GRI Guild and Alliance on Catskills ? I would have never imagined it, reading your post, if not because you mentioned it. Or did I understand it wrong ?

They pay for ALL OF THE GAME...

Then they should try to play ALL OF THE GAME...?

And as far as I am concerned, are they not "freely able to obtain them through hunting?" Oh by freely able you mean they should not be PKed if a fellow UO subscriber who pays for his subscription just like they do but plays with a different mindset going into the game. Maybe we dont see eye to eye. Free means to have the choice to venture into Fel and try to farm scrolls or not. Free to you means he is handed what he wants with as little amount of effort as possible just to please the REAL subscribers who play the game with good virtue and honor...

Somehow I have a feeling you are what the devs were referring to as "carebears." Not everything should be free. Especially considering if you do not play in fel, and do not venture into the PVP aspect, then you really do not NEED 120s to play the game to its full extent in trammel. As someone previously mentioned, 120 magery is really only needed if you use a mage weapon or if you need to 100% cast lvl 8 spells. Anyone in tram can get away without this since theres not much use for either in trammel. PvM....you will do fine with 110 or 115 skills (which again if you dont want to venture into fel can cost you a whopping few hundred K in gold...big deal).

Nice communist comparison btw to above poster...you hit the nail on the head.

 

[popps]

And as far as I am concerned, are they not "freely able to obtain them through hunting?" Oh by freely able you mean they should not be PKed if a fellow UO subscriber who pays for his subscription just like they do but plays with a different mindset going into the game.

Ain't it called "consensual" PvP for a good reason ?

That is, that only players actually "willing' to engage into it should ever have to engage into PvP ?

Unfortunately, if there is any item which can ONLY be obtained through it, the "consensual" part of the deal just falls through, at least as I see it........

This is where I am coming from with my argument.

That PvP, since it can only be "consensual" should never EVER be fought over items exclusively obtainable through its hunt.

If players need reasons to PvP well, then OTHER reasons should be found to give goals to players to engage into PvP but definately, IMHO, it should not be over items which players have no other way to hunt them.

Not everything should be free.

I never ever said anything about getting for free.

If one hunts in Doom and get an Artifact was it maybe free ?

No, it was EARNED.

If one hunts a Peerless and gets a Crimson Cincture was it free ?

No, it was EARNED.

Then why on earth should players who do NOT want to engage into "consensual" PvP not be able to also EARN their powerscrolls on their own ?

Because PvP needs a reason to be fought over ?

Well, I suggest finding OTHER reasons for players to PvP for but leave items out of it.

Especially considering if you do not play in fel, and do not venture into the PVP aspect, then you really do not NEED 120s to play the game to its full extent in trammel. As someone previously mentioned, 120 magery is really only needed if you use a mage weapon or if you need to 100% cast lvl 8 spells. Anyone in tram can get away without this since theres not much use for either in trammel. PvM....you will do fine with 110 or 115 skills (which again if you dont want to venture into fel can cost you a whopping few hundred K in gold...big deal).

I disagree entirely.

A lot of MoBs have been made tougher (Peerless for ones) and being able to raise one's own skill to 120 sometimes is necessary if one wants to fight those MoBs. For Inscription, just to name 1 example, 120 magery is a must, if one wants to craft really usefull and good selling Scrapper spellbooks.

 

[mbraud4]

If you need a 120 magery to craft scrappers all day long if that is what you want to do...Well save up and buy one by farming things in tram or learn to pvp and earn one like you earn everything else, end of story. Stop f'ing crying...?

If you need another 120 to fight the new Peerless...Well save up and buy one by farming things in tram or learn to pvp and earn one like you earn everything else, end of story. Stop f'ing crying...?

You see how this game works? This is how it has always worked...It is not broken, the only thing broken here is you, a broken record that just wont stop...I will rejoice and hand out free 120 magerys to everyone the day you quit uo and find a new hobby to whine about.

 

[Trebr Drab]

If you need a 120 magery to craft scrappers all day long if that is what you want to do...Well save up and buy one by farming things in tram or learn to pvp and earn one like you earn everything else, end of story. Stop f'ing crying...?

If you need another 120 to fight the new Peerless...Well save up and buy one by farming things in tram or learn to pvp and earn one like you earn everything else, end of story. Stop f'ing crying...?

You see how this game works? This is how it has always worked...It is not broken, the only thing broken here is you, a broken record that just wont stop...I will rejoice and hand out free 120 magerys to everyone the day you quit uo and find a new hobby to whine about.

It's not "f'ing crying". It's a complaint, from players who don't want to work their arse off (relatively speaking, since most of us are not power gamers) just to pay other players an exorbitant price (again, relatively speaking etc., etc.) for the basic right to improve our skills.

Who the hell do you think you are to dictate something like that to other players? And what the hell are the developers thinking to throw that kind of crap in a game?

 

[mbraud4]

It's not "f'ing crying". It's a complaint, from players who don't want to work their arse off (relatively speaking, since most of us are not power gamers) just to pay other players an exorbitant price (again, relatively speaking etc., etc.) for the basic right to improve our skills.

Who the hell do you think you are to dictate something like that to other players? And what the hell are the developers thinking to throw that kind of crap in a game?

I am someone who works to get my own scrolls, exactly what you should do, so stop "f'ing crying." You dont like it, feel free to quit. The good ole fashioned "I'll take my ball and go home syndrome."

 

[Trebr Drab]

I am someone who works to get my own scrolls, exactly what you should do, so stop "f'ing crying." You dont like it, feel free to quit. The good ole fashioned "I'll take my ball and go home syndrome."

I'll decide whether or not I quit, not you.
And the UO developers should consider exactly this scenario, played out among many gamers past and present and future.

 

[mbraud4]

I'm done posting here tonight, the ignorance in the room is too much to bare. Let the UO-SSR fools whine in here until tommorrow about equality for the hard working and the lazy. So glad another idiotic thread was created.

 

[Mairut]

I'm done posting here tonight, the ignorance in the room is too much to bare. Let the UO-SSR fools whine in here until tommorrow about equality for the hard working and the lazy. So glad another idiotic thread was created.

This. Completely pointless, stupidity at it's finest.
I did say, before, that the SOTs were made as Fel-only items because of the advantage that they gave you, and thus the risk was to be higher in obtaining them (and it is). People completely skipped over that point and continued to b*tch and moan about how it doesn't matter, everyone deserves equal chance so they should be made free to everyone, blah blah, so whatever.

 

[AesSedai]

- Am I hearing...

... The good ole fashioned "I'll take my ball and go home syndrome."

???

I used to love doing champion spawns when it came out.
That was before the lazy pvp'ers started ghost camming and before UO stopped booting people from the area for awhile once they were killed and before enough of the PvPers rallied and realized they could dominate spawns with enough numbers and therefore in a significant way monopolize the powerscroll system. It's not too fun when others are able and quite willing to use illegal 3rd party programs, including ghost cams, and change game tiles, and take advantage of every illegal loophole they can possibly find in order to make the game easy for them; and you can't do a thing about it because when you kill them they can be right back in the mix a few seconds later (assuming they prematurely attacked before some bot told them it was the end of the spawn).

Legit PvPers did not kill that UO game system for me - cheating did.

(Semi-related thoughts: I never had a problem with manual spawn scouting. I never had a problem with legit PvPers. I've always had an issue with domination by way of cheating, which it seems many have felt the need to resort to over the years. Remove cheating in UO more and I would once again enjoy certain UO game systems.)

 

[outcry]

a big warning... without raiders and pkers all of the above is pointless and uo would lose its magik... so please cherish your foes and remember... they are the ones that make all of this... a challenge.

otherwise this would be a grinding game... boring, boring...

He has made Catskills a boring game and he is now the leader of what he supposedly wanted to take down.... Any blue not in *his alliance * gets attacked by his Alliance.. this makes him no better then the pks or raiders he wanted to stop...He will deny this like always but as one of the raiders I wanted to put to the test of his speech etc on Catskills but I have many accounts and decided to see if any of his alliance would attack... and they did , I was not asked by the Alliance raiders if I needed help or if they could join but just killed and trust me nobody not even my guild knows the char I was on at the time .. I made it to test his guild theory ... His one circle has become full circle and he is the new evil for he controls the prices and spawns like the ones he wanted to stop.....
Re: Newsletter: February 2010
Circle Alliance Public Spawns

It seems the Circle has been spawning 24/7... from Despise to Marble...

Now that we can assure the safety of the hunts and destroy most of the raiding teams, I would like to invite everyone to try it out...

You can reach me by using the Catskills Public Ventrillo, by PM or by icq

If you need an lrc and starting powerscrolls... you can make a spawner in about three days following this link:
NecroMageWeaver

We'll be happy to help out with a full spellbook and some extra gold...



On the issue of having known blues that are linked to guilds that are not TB...
Weird enough, you are welcomed... and enjoy the fun.
(if something fishy arises... old felucca rules will apply with Crom counting the dead...)


The goal is still the same... do all spawns, gather new and old friends, do more harrowers... destroy the ps/stat scroll markets... and above all... have fun!

PS: if you feel like rping a elven clone created for the purpose of spawning and warfare...

otherwise make your own unique character.


Last edited by Pitr; 02-12-10 at 06:51 AM.

 

[CatLord]

Ways to stop us...

board propaganda... where they will try to make it look like you are the next monopolistic guild.

Read the above...

I love to be ahead...

Safe gaming!

 

[Whinemaker]

I am a trammy. I admit it.
And I don't have any problems with powerscrolls obtainable only in Fel.

Only problem I have is how they've made spawns so raid-able.
Well, it's a good thing for encouraging PvP, I guess. But I think if they made it so that there's more of a consequence for being the aggressor and killing other non-warring/faction players in a champ area (making the risks equal for an attacker? But then again I'm only seeing things from a non-PvPing, always raided n00b kind of PoV, so I don't really know how much of a risk they are already taking), more people might start giving the risk-vs-reward BS a shot you know...

Anyway I'll just shut up now.

 

[King Don Juan]

i really don't understand those who are whining...

this game is not meant to be easy, you saying it is unfair that pvpers have more scrolls than others is like me saying that it is unfair to not be able to kill a greater dragon on my crafter...

You choose your profession, if you are more of a pvmer, well you go hunt, sell your stuff, and buy what you need.
this is how life goes, if you are a fisher, you sell your fish to be able to buy furnitures from the carpenter... stop crying and start playing the game

and if you quit because of this, then maybe the game is too har for you and perhaps you need to try sims or something.

 

[popps]

And what the hell are the developers thinking to throw that kind of crap in a game?

This is something I have been asking myself over these years, seeing Powerscroll Champs channell an enormous wealth to only a few players and alienating quite a number of other players from the same one game, cut out from the spawns .......

Personally, I would imagine that when thinking of a feature, the goal would be asking oneself whether its implementation would gain subscriptions or loose them for the game.

Sure, miscalculations can happen, that's granted, but what is strange is that after a feature is realized as causing loss of subscriptions, then changes should follow to stop that loss of revenues.

Now, I can only imagine that either I am wrong in my thinking, and the Developers know it for sure that the way Powerscrolls work ended up giving a positive balance of sunscriptions, not a negative one as I think, OR that over these many years the issue was not much analyzed, even with players' complaints, and so changes to it were never done because the problem was not noted at all.

Of course, I have no clue which is which, I can only voice my opinions and call for checking this one issue out, in the best interest of the game.

My guess, is that the current way powerscrolls work caused loss of subscriptions and might have deterred players from returning to the game (we just have one hint to that as an example in the OP post...).

But of course, what do I know, I can only have gut feelings from playing the game and talking to people in the game.

 

[popps]

I am someone who works to get my own scrolls, exactly what you should do

Quite many players disdain engaging in PvP activities for reasons other than not wanting to fight (even though not being willing to engage into consensual PvP should never be a penalizing factor for a player...).

The possibilities could be several like, for example :

- Not wanting to hear trash talking and heated up discussions which "may" arise in a PvP environment;

- Not wanting to end up fighting with someone who uses hacks or scripts to gain an edge;

- Not wanting to feel victim to some insurance weirdness and loose one's own hard earned equipment;

- Not wanting to be the fun toy of someone superiorly geared up and armored with very little chances to fight on an equal basis

Just to name a few.......


Since cheats and hacks in a game, as well as problems with insurance or keeping under control bad talking in the game I would imagine is a game owners' responsibility to ensure a better quality service to customers, I cannot see players at fault for not wanting, because of issues not pertaining to their realm of responsibilities, to engage in any PvP activities.

Now, if players are not responsible, given the sad status of PvP in the game, for not wanting to engage in any PvP activity, then they are not at fault for not being willing to feel obliged to attend Champ Spawns to get Powerscrolls.

At the very least, the issues deterring players from being willing to PvP should first get fixed and THEN, maybe (and not necessarily, I think, since it is my opinion, not being willing to engage in PvP activities should not be a penalizing factor for players), one could discuss whether or not players should "have to" get into PvP ruleset areas to earn their powerscrolls.

But as of now (and as it has been now for many years, unfortunately...), with the problems and deterrants that PvP has ?

No way.

Instead, many players are being penalized for responsibilities not theirs, for non resolved or fixed issues that PvP has which they have no control over.

In the end, it is many players who pay the consequences and suffer the end damage of not being able to hunt for powerscrolls on their own, because PvP has issues that have been left unfixed for way too many years now, which they do not like nor want to have to deal with.

No wonder to me that at some point, some of these players may have enough of the game and decide to move on, or not to come back.

And this, is my concern.

 

[Rainfo X]

Well, I resubscribed tonight and my guild was still around and playing, so I ended up playing through two champ spawns tonight. I didn't get a 120 scroll and nobody else said they did either. Turns out my guild mate has a 120 magery on his vendor, hed sell it to me for 15million or I could buy it online for like $12.99. I still think they could be a tad more accessible (heck, increase the drop rates a bit in Fel maybe if you really want players to go there and risk being raided).

It's just silly that I had to go to Felucca (pvp zone of course) to play the PVM content for items that I'll primarily use for my dungeon crawling. I can't understand how people couldn't understand how that doesn't exactly make sense and could potentially discourage people from the UO endgame.

Oh, and I still fizzle a fair amount at 8th circle spells with 110 magery.

 

[Petra Fyde]

RTLFC

You know you really can't 'have your cake and eat it'. On the one hand everyone promotes the fact that this is a MMORPG and players should work together, particularly in regard to the relationship between crafters/hunters. But when the relationship is between champ spawners and pure pvmers that doesn't apply?

I am not in a spawning guild, I'm not a pvper, but I've never had a problem obtaining the scrolls I needed if I worked for it and had patience.
In just the same way champ spawners don't get the particular scrolls they want unless they work for them and are patient. The time to get a 120 magery is laughably estimated here at 30 minutes, yet I know players who regularly play in fel, who regularly do champs and who consider themselves to be pvpers who have waited 3 months or more for their chance to get one of these highly desireable scrolls.

Reality check, this is a game for many players, with many different play styles. You can't get it tailored to specifically suit your playstyle. Adapt and live with it. By all means strive to get fixed that which is truely broken, but stop trying to make the game adapt to you.

Can I do everything in UO? No I can't.
Do I expect to be able to? No I don't. I do the parts I can and the parts I enjoy and leave the other parts to those who can do them and who enjoy them.

 

[Rainfo X]

RTLFC

You know you really can't 'have your cake and eat it'. On the one hand everyone promotes the fact that this is a MMORPG and players should work together, particularly in regard to the relationship between crafters/hunters. But when the relationship is between champ spawners and pure pvmers that doesn't apply?

I am not in a spawning guild, I'm not a pvper, but I've never had a problem obtaining the scrolls I needed if I worked for it and had patience.
In just the same way champ spawners don't get the particular scrolls they want unless they work for them and are patient. The time to get a 120 magery is laughably estimated here at 30 minutes, yet I know players who regularly play in fel, who regularly do champs and who consider themselves to be pvpers who have waited 3 months or more for their chance to get one of these highly desireable scrolls.

Reality check, this is a game for many players, with many different play styles. You can't get it tailored to specifically suit your playstyle. Adapt and live with it. By all means strive to get fixed that which is truely broken, but stop trying to make the game adapt to you.

Can I do everything in UO? No I can't.
Do I expect to be able to? No I don't. I do the parts I can and the parts I enjoy and leave the other parts to those who can do them and who enjoy them.

Meh. The scrolls are obviously out there, they're just overpriced and it's lame that you have to be prepared to pvp while you do you farm the spawns. Most modern MMOs seem to have separate pvp instances that put even teams of players against each other, while separating the pvm encounters for items. It may not be exactly broken, but it's not ideal.

 

[CatLord]

If you remove the ruthless aspect of UO... UO will die... so be careful.

There lies the true challenge of UO... it is your choice to be a hero or a villain.

Along the years that line slowly faded and a huge grey area took its place...

The so called "risk versus reward"...


On Catskills that line is visible again... and it sure made some players mad... but there is no reason to be mad... just enjoy your playstyle and live with it.

I don't agree with Petra...

Can I do everything in UO? Heck, Yeah.

Do I expect to be able to? We all pay the same fee. Equality, we should all have the same access to the game content... so yes, I expect everyone to be able to... and when they can't... I'll raise Hell and make it happen.

(I have way too much time in my hands)

 

[Mistura]

Most modern MMOs seem to have separate pvp instances that put even teams of players against each other, while separating the pvm encounters for items.

UO is not "most modern MMOs" though is it? lol

Go play WoW if thats what you want to do but don't try and turn UO into that rubbish.

 

[CatLord]

I agree Mistura... we're THE game!

 

[Petra Fyde]

you misunderstand me. No I can't do everything in uo. But it's not because I am prohibited from doing it, it's because my skill as a player isn't adequate to that task. I accept my limitations and don't expect the developers to change the game to adapt to me.
I don't pvp, why? Because I tried it and didn't enjoy that aspect of the game. Do I campaign for the removal of pvp because I don't do it? No, I leave it to those who do enjoy it.

 

[CatLord]

I agree then... we should do what we enjoy!

Want to join us and pvp? We have a really different way of doing it!

Our ventrillo is quiet and the players are mature... (no screaming or disrespect)
Our pvp style (shadowfist unit, not the entire TB) is clean and straighforward... gank/pop shot/res kill or run about doing double shots... and screaming Jeronimo.

Come try it out!

 

[Connor_Graham]

This whole thread has turned into yet another poops (aka Lindsay Lohan) display of ignorance on a subject he knows nothing about, yet will continue to argue points of logic that make no sense at all, using twisted examples and excuses why everything in the game should be equal and fair to all, with no regard to personal accomplishment or skill.

Boiled down, you either choose to PvP, and thus obtain scrolls from the source, or you choose not to PvP, and find another way to obtain them. Thousands upon thousands of players have scrolled their characters without the need to step one foot in Fel, and had fun while doing it. The same 3 or 4 violently vocal crybaby whiners jump on the slightest chance to yet again repeat the same tired arguments and excuses as to why they're above making the choice and want PS's handed to them on a gold (forget the silver) platter.

PS's belong in Fel. They were put there for a reason, that reason still exists, so there they shall remain. It's one of the few systems in UO that is working exactly as intended, and with the removal of ghost cams, is working better now than it has in a long time.

Quit asking the Devs to remove choice from UO. Choice is what makes UO the sandbox game that it is, and choice is the reason that UO is still here 13 years later. If you don't want choice to be part of your game, then go play WoW, and good riddance. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord splilt ya. You won't be missed. Really, you won't.

 

[BlackMagus]

Excuse me ?

Why should a casual player HAVE TO feel obligated to spend countless hours doing some boring farming activity

So you actually think it is easy to get a 120 magery even if you where not killed by pks?

Think again... that 120 magery is a rare drop so I guess you will actually be spending LESS time farming the gold, than you would if you had to hope for that 120 magery to drop in your bag! Seriously.. how easy do you want this game to be??

QFT

 

[popps]

I wanted to stop answering to make an effort to cut down polemics but I cannot let this one slip unanswered.....

Boiled down, you either choose to PvP, and thus obtain scrolls from the source, or you choose not to PvP, and find another way to obtain them. Thousands upon thousands of players have scrolled their characters without the need to step one foot in Fel, and had fun while doing it. The same 3 or 4 violently vocal crybaby whiners jump on the slightest chance to yet again repeat the same tired arguments and excuses as to why they're above making the choice and want PS's handed to them on a gold (forget the silver) platter.

I must disagree that all players have a choice to either PvP or not to.

Some players might be more concerned than others about the problems that PvP has (hacks, scripts, cheats, feared problems with insurance and so forth) and this might make it for them such a deterrant that "even if" they wanted to get into PvP and hunt for their scrolls, because of the problems that PvP has, which they feel as beyond reasonably acceptable to their standards, they have to refrain from attending Champion Spawns.

That is, for problems that PvP has had and still has, beyond and out of players' control, some players might end up not wanting to have anything to do with it even if they wanted to.

That is, their choice would be to participate to PvP and hunt for their powerscrolls BUT, given the sad status of PvP they feel the game as broken in that part and stay the hell away from it.

Because of problems to a feature of the game, PvP, unfixed over the years, players, against their will (they would want to PvP if things were more under control...) will have to go against what their choice would be and suffer consequences (feel obliged to purchase scrolls at exorbitant prices) for responsibilities which are not theirs (the unresolved problems with PvP).

Should these players be blamed ? I do not think so.

It is their right, as paying customers, to protest about a feature of the game, PvP, not working as it should and it is their full right not to want to participate to a feature which is not well functioning.

This does not mean, though, that they should pay all the consequences for this (i.e., have to end up suffering the extra toll that the purchasing of the powerscrolls brings...).

Quit asking the Devs to remove choice from UO. Choice is what makes UO the sandbox game that it is, and choice is the reason that UO is still here 13 years later.

Choice.....

What prevents a player, or a group of players, to "choose" to fight another player or groups of players just for the sake of it, without the need to have to do it over items ???

Ain't this THE choice as in regards to PvP ?

That is, wanting to fight another player, NOT a computer run MoB, for the challenge of it and not for profit or revenues.

I have heard the argument so many times, the beauty of PvP is because of the challenge of fighting a human opponent, not a computer run one.

Well, then, let PvP flyy higher and happen for THAT one noble reason, without the need for items as an excuse...

Perhaps others may have no problems with it, but personally, I have had enough that Ultima Online has become a game where what seems to matter most, is what anything might be worth, whether doing something is worth it and so forth....

Perhaps PvP would be a good way to start freeing Ultima Online from the "worth" curse.

Make PvP happen over reasons not necessarilyy worth anything, in gold terms, and perhaps Ultima Online could become a better game.......

It could be high titles to show as top competitors in PvP, it could be prizes offered from the game owners to those being able to show the best experteese at it (like for example a free month), it could be a special plate to show in one's own UO home mentioning the PvPer ability, it could be a number of reasons, not necessarily it has to be for in game items not obtainable otherwise in the game and yet needed for many players to play the game.....

 

[CatLord]

You know Popps... pvp isn't that bad.

If the devs make it so only players with the latest client can log in.
If the devs finish those 5% that will disrupt speedhacking and 3rd party.

There will be a new UO Revolution...

Right now we feel it in the field when there is a patch... many pvpers simply vanish.
My bet is that when that battle is won... we'll see something new on the other shards, but old on Catskills... Defiance.

My special thanks to the Devs for the new Insurance System and the lack of complaints regarding item loss...

 

[CatLord]

We can even have a theme song...

Oh, I'm a Gummy Bear
Yes, I'm a Gummy Bear!
Oh, I'm a Yummy, Chummy, Funny, Lucky Gummy Bear.
I'm a Jolly bear, Cuz I'm a Gummy bear,
Oh I'm a movin', groovin', Jammin', Singin' Gummy Bear

Oh Yeah!

(Gummy Gummy Gummy Gummy Gummy bear) [Pop! ]

Bing ding ba doli party
Zing bing ba doli party
Breding ba doli party party pop [Pop! ]

Oh, I'm a Gummy Bear
Yes, I'm a Gummy Bear!
Oh, I'm a Yummy, Chummy, Funny, Lucky Gummy Bear.
I'm a Jolly bear, Cuz I'm a Gummy bear,
Oh I'm a movin', groovin', Jammin', Singin' Gummy Bear

Oh Yeah!

(Gummy Gummy Gummy Gummy Gummy bear) [Pop! ]

Beba bi Duba duba yum yum
Beba bi Duba duba yum yum
Beba bi Duba duba yum yum yum
Three times you can bite me

Oh, I'm a Gummy Bear
Yes, I'm a Gummy Bear!
Oh, I'm a Yummy, Chummy, Funny, Lucky Gummy Bear.
I'm a Jolly bear, Cuz I'm a Gummy bear,
Oh I'm a movin', groovin', Jammin', Singin' Gummy Bear

Oh Yeah!

(Gummy Gummy Gummy Gummy Gummy bear) [Pop! ]

Beba bi Duba duba yum yum
Beba bi Duba duba yum yum
Beba bi Duba duba yum yum
Three times you can bite me

Oh, I'm a Gummy Bear
Yes, I'm a Gummy Bear!
Oh, I'm a Yummy, Chummy, Funny, Lucky Gummy Bear.
I'm a Jolly bear, Cuz I'm a Gummy bear,
Oh I'm a movin', groovin', Jammin', Singin' Gummy Bear

Oh Yeah!

Haha Duba duba yum yum
Haha Duba duba yum yum
Haha Duba duba yum yum
Three times you can bite me

(Gummy Gummy Gummy Gummy Gummy bear) [Pop! ]


((no pun intended vs the carebears))

 

[Connor_Graham]

I must disagree that all players have a choice to either PvP or not to.

Then you'd be wrong. You can either do it, or you don't. That's a choice. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Some players might be more concerned than others about the problems that PvP has (hacks, scripts, cheats, feared problems with insurance and so forth) and this might make it for them such a deterrant that "even if" they wanted to get into PvP and hunt for their scrolls, because of the problems that PvP has, which they feel as beyond reasonably acceptable to their standards, they have to refrain from attending Champion Spawns.

That is, for problems that PvP has had and still has, beyond and out of players' control, some players might end up not wanting to have anything to do with it even if they wanted to.

That is, their choice would be to participate to PvP and hunt for their powerscrolls BUT, given the sad status of PvP they feel the game as broken in that part and stay the hell away from it.

Because of problems to a feature of the game, PvP, unfixed over the years, players, against their will (they would want to PvP if things were more under control...) will have to go against what their choice would be and suffer consequences (feel obliged to purchase scrolls at exorbitant prices) for responsibilities which are not theirs (the unresolved problems with PvP).

Should these players be blamed ? I do not think so.

It is their right, as paying customers, to protest about a feature of the game, PvP, not working as it should and it is their full right not to want to participate to a feature which is not well functioning.

This does not mean, though, that they should pay all the consequences for this (i.e., have to end up suffering the extra toll that the purchasing of the powerscrolls brings...).

This is an EXCUSE, not a reason. Any person in this game can put together a group of people, train, then go to Fel and successfully complete champ spawns, even against those who use cheats. It's a matter of making the choice to do so. Choosing not to, and using cheating for the reason, is a cop out, one that you've worn to death.

What prevents a player, or a group of players, to "choose" to fight another player or groups of players just for the sake of it, without the need to have to do it over items ???

Ain't this THE choice as in regards to PvP ?

That is, wanting to fight another player, NOT a computer run MoB, for the challenge of it and not for profit or revenues.

I have heard the argument so many times, the beauty of PvP is because of the challenge of fighting a human opponent, not a computer run one.

Well, then, let PvP flyy higher and happen for THAT one noble reason, without the need for items as an excuse...

Perhaps others may have no problems with it, but personally, I have had enough that Ultima Online has become a game where what seems to matter most, is what anything might be worth, whether doing something is worth it and so forth....

Perhaps PvP would be a good way to start freeing Ultima Online from the "worth" curse.

Make PvP happen over reasons not necessarilyy worth anything, in gold terms, and perhaps Ultima Online could become a better game.......

It could be high titles to show as top competitors in PvP, it could be prizes offered from the game owners to those being able to show the best experteese at it (like for example a free month), it could be a special plate to show in one's own UO home mentioning the PvPer ability, it could be a number of reasons, not necessarily it has to be for in game items not obtainable otherwise in the game and yet needed for many players to play the game.....

Yet again another thinly veiled cop out excuse. Having a much wanted commodity/resource to fight over centralizes PvP action. It gives something to fight over, and provides PvP'rs with a means to support themselves. It's the only one they have. Deco and titles don't feed people, commodities and resources do. It doesn't matter what that commodity/resource is, someone that chooses not to PvP will always desire it, and will always complain and provide excuses as to why they choose not to do something in order to get it.

 

[ZidjiN]

Players, IMHO, should fight players for the sake of it (that is the greater challenge), not because of any item.

I think the same should go for PVM then.
You whould fight a greater dragon, a peerless, dark father for the fight not for the loot. Lets remove all loot completley.
Cause i guess you that exactly how you would like it? Nah thats right you want it this way.

Trammel players(you) should get Freebies since you want items.
Felluca players(me) should get nothing since, we just want to have fun?
get a grip.

 

[Petra Fyde]

This thread has deteriorated into the same tired old argument.
Power scrolls were put in as an incentive for players to pvp in Felucca. The reason for that decision still exists and therefore there is no logical reason to change it.
That power scrolls are expensive is accepted, but so are:
Artifacts
Replicas
Imbuing ingredients
event rares.
etc, etc, etc.
All of which can be collected and sold to the pvpers to offset the cost of the scrolls.

That cheating happens in the game is a reason to stop cheating, it is not a reason to change the game design.

That cheating is far less rife than less competent players would have you believe is also a fact. I know of several instances involving my husband where gms have been called on him for alleged cheating in pvm. Was he in fact cheating? Heck no! He just knows how to play his character better than the person making the accusation.

This is also true in pvp. Yes there is cheating, but it's not as widespread as people would have you believe.

And on that note, this tired old re-hash of previous threads is done.