Okay. The Bible SUCKS!

[Mishkam]

we know how you atheists would like to literally slaughter every Christian on earth just as you have tried to mass exterminate many people in the last century alone.

hey christianity wrote the book on genocide... we just followed your manual.

 

[MuffinBear]

hey christianity wrote the book on genocide... we just followed your manual.

I don't get it your statement...

Are you trying to say that Karl Marx was a Christian?

Is is it supposed to be a joke?

Is it supposed to be an insult?

Are you just acting stupid?


Oh I get it, you're trying to ignore your God given ability of "reason"

 

[Mishkam]

First off... Killing in the name of god, or for religion, is completely different than someone killing who happens to be a christian or religious.
Just as an atheist committing a murder isn't necessarily killing for atheism.

so if you are saying that more murders are committed in the name of atheism than in gods name... you are not only completely wrong... but probably too stupid to breathe. (do you have to constantly remind yourself: breathe in... breathe out...breathe in... breathe out...??)

 

[MuffinBear]

First off... Killing in the name of god, or for religion, is completely different than someone killing who happens to be a christian or religious.

You are wrong, murder is murder and murder is wrong.

Just as an atheist committing a murder isn't necessarily killing for atheism.

So you're trying to say it's okay for atheists to murder people as long as the atheist doesn't murder people in the name of atheism?

so if you are saying that more murders are committed in the name of atheism than in gods name... you are not only completely wrong

Again, atheists have murdered more people than religious people....even worse, most of the murders were committed within the past hundred years.

... but probably too stupid to breathe. (do you have to constantly remind yourself: breathe in... breathe out...breathe in... breathe out...??)

Perfect example of angry ignorant internet atheist logic.

 

[Aran]

Christians dying makes me giggle.

 

[MuffinBear]

Christians dying makes me giggle.

Look at the angwy wittle atheist twying to act hard core. :gun:

 

[Aran]

Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh atheists are meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaan

 

[Mishkam]

so if you are saying that more murders are committed in the name of atheism than in gods name... you are not only completely wrong

Again, atheists have murdered more people than religious people....even worse, most of the murders were committed within the past hundred years.


[/quote]


absolutely positively... WROOOOOONG.

 

[Mishkam]

Perfect example of angry ignorant internet atheist logic.

this "internet atheist" you keep talking about.. is that another label made up by you pseudo christians to try to make it look like atheism is new?

Atheism is not new... it's only new that christians wouldn't kill you for saying you didn't believe in their god.


as for these millions of people atheist supposedly murdered in the last hundred years... Let's have some of your research. Give me some statistics...

I'm sure it is a lot of the same "well it sounds good" bs pseudo christians like you regurgitate ad nauseam. But lets see if you actually have some ideas of your own to add to the discussion.

 

[MuffinBear]

this "internet atheist" you keep talking about.. is that another label made up by you pseudo christians to try to make it look like atheism is new?

"angry internet atheist" is a label applied to people like you, atheists who like to spam, rant and rave about religion in places where it really doesn't belong...like I said before,
"Why do you spam various youtube channels?
Why do you spam various video game message boards?
Why do you spam various movie message boards?
Why do you spam various music message boards?"

Atheism is not new... it's only new that christians wouldn't kill you for saying you didn't believe in their god.

Officially atheist are fairly new and all of them have had mass murder and genocide take place in them...even worse it's been in the last 100 years. But sure, we could go back even further like to the French revolution where atheists were mass murdering people at the guillotines.

as for these millions of people atheist supposedly murdered in the last hundred years... Let's have some of your research. Give me some statistics...

I'm sure it is a lot of the same "well it sounds good" bs pseudo christians like you regurgitate ad nauseam. But lets see if you actually have some ideas of your own to add to the discussion.

Your problem is you want to be ignorant. You do not want to know true history because it proves atheists have by far been worse than any religious group in all of history.

 

[Mishkam]

Your problem is you want to be ignorant. You do not want to know true history because it proves atheists have by far been worse than any religious group in all of history.

actually... religion tends more towards keeping it's "flock" ignorant. Better to have subjects that dont question than to have free thinkers. That is why early christians attempted the extinction of free thinking pagans in it's bloody infancy.

I have read...and not only books I've been told to read.. and in an attempt to not be ignorant, I am once again begging you for some of your research.

SHOW ME WHERE ALL THESE ATHEIST MURDERS YOU CLAIM FROM THE LAST 100 YEARS ARE.

I'm sure I've heard some of your arguments before.. You will probably try to claim Stalin killed in the name of atheism, you will probably say Hitler was an atheist, you will probably try to say that anyone who has killed and is an atheist has "killed for atheism".

You'll be wrong on all counts... but I'd still like to see your "data" on the subjects.

 

[MuffinBear]

actually... religion tends more towards keeping it's "flock" ignorant. Better to have subjects that dont question than to have free thinkers. That is why early christians attempted the extinction of free thinking pagans in it's bloody infancy.

The atheist nations have been the most oppressive in history...even worse, it's been recent history...anyone who questioned communism or even atheism could and often times were, murdered/imprisoned/tortured...but those pesky facts don't fit into your fantasy world does it?

Even atheist Mao Zedong claimed to have buried alive 46,000 scholars.

and in an attempt to not be ignorant, I am once again begging you for some of your research.

SHOW ME WHERE ALL THESE ATHEIST MURDERS YOU CLAIM FROM THE LAST 100 YEARS ARE.

Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol pot are good places to start when researching mass murders committed by atheists but there are plenty of other places.

Just research any nation that has ever been officially atheist...go in alphabetical order, start with Albania for example and go on to Bulgaria then China and so on.

 

[Mishkam]

One.... Hitler wasn't an atheist. He was a catholic. (you really should try reading outside of church. You'll be amazed how seldom church history and actual history collide)
So by your logic... Xstians own his body count.

Secondly, because a leader is atheist... does not mean every death under his command is an atheist murder. That would be like saying Bonaparte killed in the name of shortness.

The united states has yet to have an atheist president. So by your logic every death in a war the US was involved in was a christian murder right?
In the civil war alone over 600,000 Americans lost their lives under Christian leadership. Were these all murders by christianity?

Now the Inquisition... The crusades.. The wholesale slaughter of Pagans (You should try reading the Witches Hammer sometime, it's even one of your sides books) these were atrocities committed specifically for Christian doctrine.


Lets just for a moment say your "logic" isnt flawed, lets say God does exist, and let's for a moment say that these leaders did kill in the name of atheism.

An omnipotent and omniscient creator that made everything, knows everything, and is omnipresent... also made atheists, Stalin, Mao, knowing full well what they were going to do.....

So their "murders" are on christianity anyway.


He also created

 

[MuffinBear]

One.... Hitler wasn't an atheist. He was a catholic. (you really should try reading outside of church. You'll be amazed how seldom church history and actual history collide)
So by your logic... Xstians own his body count.

From Hitler, "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbines"

"We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany."


Even if Hitler is ignored, the atheists have still murdered more people than all the religious people have.

(you really should try reading outside of church.

You seem to spam this alot which is strange when it's very obvious you do not know what you're talking about.

You go from this,

in an attempt to not be ignorant, I am once again begging you for some of your research.

and

SHOW ME WHERE ALL THESE ATHEIST MURDERS YOU CLAIM FROM THE LAST 100 YEARS ARE.

To this,

(you really should try reading outside of church. You'll be amazed how seldom church history and actual history collide)

Secondly, because a leader is atheist... does not mean every death under his command is an atheist murder.

When someone is murdered because of an atheist...guess what...it's an atheist murder.

That would be like saying Bonaparte killed in the name of shortness.

Are you just trolling for attention?

The united states has yet to have an atheist president.

Thank God.

So by your logic every death in a war the US was involved in was a christian murder right?
In the civil war alone over 600,000 Americans lost their lives under Christian leadership. Were these all murders by christianity?

Even with all those numbers, atheists still have the highest mass murder count.

Now the Inquisition... The crusades.. The wholesale slaughter of Pagans (You should try reading the Witches Hammer sometime, it's even one of your sides books)

1. The inquisition targeted Christians.
2. The Crusades happened a thousand years ago in a different era, between the time when pagan Vikings ravaged Europe and when Mongol hordes spilled out of the east.

But what about atheists? They have slaughtered hundreds of millions of people in the last century alone.

these were atrocities committed specifically for Christian doctrine.

1.The Bible doesn't tell people to torture Christians to see if they really are Christians. (inquisition)

2.The Bible doesn't tell Christians to go on Crusades.

If you hate Christians so much, why do you choose to live in a predominantly Christian nation? Why don't you move to an atheist nation like Cuba or North Korea?

let's for a moment say that these leaders did kill in the name of atheism.
An omnipotent and omniscient creator that made everything, knows everything, and is omnipresent... also made atheists, Stalin, Mao, knowing full well what they were going to do.....

So their "murders" are on christianity anyway.

The atheist leaders went against Gods word and created mass murders, genocide, forced starvation and hell on earth.

We Christians try to obey Gods rules and follow his word and truly try to make the world a better place.

You know that and it's why you're in a predominantly Christian nation and not in an atheist one.

 

[Mishkam]

ok.. so you accuse me of spamming.... but you wont put one single shred of evidence to back up the spam you repeat ad nauseam.

Even with all those numbers, atheists still have the highest mass murder count.

stop saying it and prove it...

oh and for Hitler...

“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, from John Toland [Pulitzer Prize winner], Adolf Hitler, New York: Anchor Publishing, 1992, p. 507. )[/FONT]
“The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 562. )[/FONT]
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 65. )[/FONT]
“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago — a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.
“Then indeed when Rome collapsed there were endless streams of new German bands flowing into the Empire from the North; but, if Germany collapses today, who is there to come after us? German blood upon this earth is on the way to gradual exhaustion unless we pull ourselves together and make ourselves free!
“And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Munich, April 12, 1922; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler: April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1, New York: Oxford University Press, 1942, pp. 19-20. )[/FONT]
“For this, to be sure, from the child's primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: ‘Lord, make us free!’ is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: ‘Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!’”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, pp. 632-633. )[/FONT]
“I may not be a light of the church, a pulpiteer, but deep down I am a pious man, and believe that whoever fights bravely in defense of the natural laws framed by God and never capitulates will never be deserted by the Lawgiver, but will, in the end, receive the blessings of Providence.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered on July 5, 1944; from Charles Bracelen Flood, Hitler: The Path to Power, Boston, Mass: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1989, p. 208. )[/FONT]
“I say: my Christian feeling tells me that my lord and savior is a warrior. It calls my attention to the man who, lonely and surrounded by only a few supporters, recognized what they [the Jews] were, and called for a battle against them, and who, by God, was not the greatest sufferer, but the greatest warrior. . .
“As a human being it is my duty to see to it that humanity will not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did that old civilization two thousand years ago, a civilization which was driven to its ruin by the Jews. . . I am convinced that I am really a devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as Christ did two thousand years ago, against those who are steeling and exploiting these poverty-stricken people.
“Two thousand years ago a man was similarly denounced by this particular race which today denounces and blasphememes all over the place. . . That man was dragged before a court and they said: he is arousing the people! So he, too, was an agitator!”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered on April 12, 1922; from Charles Bracelen Flood, Hitler: The Path to Power, Boston, Mass: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1989, pp. 261-262. )[/FONT]
“And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Stuttgart, February 15, 1933; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, p. 240. )[/FONT]
“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered in Berlin, October 24, 1933; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, p. 378. )[/FONT]
“Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 383. )[/FONT]
“We have experienced a miracle, something unique, something the like of which there has hardly been in the history of the world. God first allowed our people to be victorious for four and a half years, then He abased us, laid upon us a period of shamelessness, but now after a struggle of fourteen years he has permitted us to bring that period to a close. It is a miracle which has been wrought upon the German people. […] It shows us that the Almighty has not deserted our people, that He received it into favour at the moment when it rediscovered itself. And that our people shall never again lose itself, that must be our vow so long as we shall live and so long as the Lord gives us the strength to carry on the fight.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech to the 'Old Guard' of the Party at Munich, March 19, 1934; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, p. 406. )[/FONT]
“The anti-Semitism of the new [Christian Social] movement was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 119. )[/FONT]
“Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the ‘remaking’ of the Reich as they call it.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 375. )[/FONT]
“Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time. A fight for freedom had begun mightier than the earth had ever seen; for once Destiny had begun its course, the conviction dawned on even the broad masses that this time not the fate of Serbia or Austria was involved, but whether the German nation was to be or not to be.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 161. )[/FONT]
“As far as this variety of ‘folkish’ warriors, are concerned, I can only wish the National Socialist movement and the German people with all my heart: ‘Lord, preserve us from such friends, and then we can easily deal with our enemies.’”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 565. )[/FONT]
“It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 436. )[/FONT]
“What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 214. )[/FONT]
“Imbued with the desire to secure for the German people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in the two Christian Confessions, we have abolished the political organizations but strengthened the religious institutions.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Reichstag, Berlin, January 30, 1934; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, p. 383. )[/FONT]
“The advantages of a personal and political nature that might arise from compromising with atheistic organizations would not outweigh the consequences which would become apparent in the destruction of general moral basic values. The national government regards the two Christian confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality: their rights are not to be infringed.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Reichstag, Berlin, March 23, 1933; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, p. 371. )[/FONT]
“Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in 26 April 1933 in a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933; from Ernst Helmreich, The German Churches Under Hitler. Detroit: Wayne State Univ. Press, 1979, p. 241. )[/FONT]
“[T]he world has no reason for fighting in our defense, and as a matter of principle God does not make cowardly nations free…”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 622. )[/FONT]
“This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 152. )[/FONT]
“While we destroyed the Centre Party, we have not only brought thousands of priests back into the Church, but to millions of respectable people we have restored their faith in their religion and in their priests. The union of the Evangelical Church in a single Church for the whole Reich, the Concordat with the Catholic Church, these are but milestones on the road which leads to the establishment of a useful relation and a useful co operation between the Reich and the two Confessions.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in his New Year Message, January 1, 1934; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, p. 382. )[/FONT]
“National Socialism has always affirmed that it is determined to take the Christian Churches under the protection of the State. For their part the churches cannot for a second doubt that they need the protection of the State, and that only through the State can they be enabled to fulfill their religious mission. Indeed, the churches demand this protection from the State.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a Radio Broadcast July 22, 1933; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, p. 375. )[/FONT]
“I know that here and there the objection has been raised: Yes, but you have deserted Christianity. No, it is not that we have deserted Christianity; it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity. We have only carried through a clear division between politics, which have to do with terrestrial things, and religion, which must concern itself with the celestial sphere. There has been no interference with the doctrine of the Confessions or with their religious freedom, nor will there be any such interference. On the contrary the State protects religion, though always on the one condition that religion will not be used as a cover for political ends.
“There may have been a time when even parties founded on the ecclesiastical basis were a necessity. At that time Liberalism was opposed to the Church, while Marxism was anti-religious. But that time is past. National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity.
“The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, p. 386. )[/FONT]
“It would be more in keeping with the intention of the noblest man in this world if our two Christian churches, instead of annoying Negroes with missions which they neither desire nor understand, would kindly, but in all seriousness, teach our European humanity that where parents are not healthy it is a deed pleasing to God to take pity on a poor little healthy orphan child and give him father and mother, than themselves to give birth to a sick child who will only bring unhappiness and suffering on himself and the rest of the world.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 403. )[/FONT]
“At the head of our [National Socialist] program there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will—not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Nuremberg, September 6, 1938; from Adolf Hitler, My New Order. New York: Reynal & Hitchcock, 1941, p. 500. )[/FONT]
“May God Almighty give our work His blessing, strengthen our purpose, and endow us with wisdom and the trust of our people, for we are fighting not for ourselves but for Germany.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Berlin, February 1, 1933; from Adolf Hitler, My New Order. New York: Reynal & Hitchcock, 1941, p. 147. )[/FONT]
“The judgment whether a people is virtuous or not virtuous can hardly be passed by a human being. That should be left to God.”
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Wilhelmshaven, April 1, 1939; from Adolf Hitler, My New Order. New York: Reynal & Hitchcock, 1941, p. 621. )[/FONT]

 

[Mishkam]

The atheist leaders went against Gods word and created mass murders, genocide, forced starvation and hell on earth.

If god is Omniscient... you can't go against god. With an Omnipotent creator there is no free will.
Do some research on predestination.

We Christians try to obey Gods rules and follow his word and truly try to make the world a better place.

1. You are not a christian... you do not follow the exact teachings of christ... guaranteed. You are a Pseudo christian. Like all people who claim to be christian today. A watered down, modern, version of what jesus supposedly taught.. and what is now socially acceptable.

You know that and it's why you're in a predominantly Christian nation and not in an atheist one.

I live in a country that was founded as much on Freedom FROM religion as freedom OF religion. And even in this country less than 200 years ago.. your predecessors would have burned me at the stake.

 

[MuffinBear]

ok.. so you accuse me of spamming.... but you wont put one single shred of evidence to back up the spam you repeat ad nauseam.
stop saying it and prove it...

Why don't you want to find out for yourself? Why do need me to spoon feed you information? Why aren't you capable of doing it yourself?

Mao Zedong killed around 70 million people...That's fairly common knowledge to anyone who knows anything about history...but you have no clue.

Millions were murdered under the Soviets...Stalin, Lenin and Soviet leaders murdered, exterminated, tortured millions...again this is common knowledge but you seem to have no idea.

Seriously, if you are that curious...do some research yourself...like I said before, research any nation that has ever been officially atheist and see all the genocide and mass murders that took place.

Like I said, start with A like Albania then move on to B like Bulgaria then move on to the next letter.....do you need me to tell you which letter comes after B?

oh and for Hitler...

So we have quotes from Hitler both praising Christianity and bashing it too.

If god is Omniscient... you can't go against god. With an Omnipotent creator there is no free will.

Have you ever heard of Lucifer rebelling against God?

Are you even trying to debate or are you just trying to have the last post in this thread?

Do some research on predestination.

What about it? John Calvin's theory if I remember correctly.

1. You are not a christian... you do not follow the exact teachings of christ... guaranteed. You are a Pseudo christian. Like all people who claim to be christian today. A watered down, modern, version of what jesus supposedly taught.. and what is now socially acceptable.

Are you even serious at this point? This looks more like spam to add some filler to your post.

I live in a country that was founded as much on Freedom FROM religion as freedom OF religion.

Yes, our Christian forefathers really created a wonderful nation.

And even in this country less than 200 years ago.. your predecessors would have burned me at the stake.

I doubt it, but what is certain is 200 years ago the atheist French Republic would have executed you with the guillotine.

 

[Aran]

Why do you hate minorities?

 

[KalVasTENKI]

> The title of this thread... / thread.

LOL.

 

[Mishkam]

Why don't you want to find out for yourself? Why do need me to spoon feed you information? Why aren't you capable of doing it yourself?

Seriously, if you are that curious...do some research yourself...like I said before, research any nation that has ever been officially atheist and see all the genocide and mass murders that took place.

In any debate or argument, there is a thing called the burden of proof. You want to make a ridiculous claim about more atheist murders than religious.. the burden of proof is on you.

You keep claiming all these "Atheist Murders" then giving examples of Communist Leaders and deaths attributed to them. People were killed under these Communist regimes for countless reasons, one of the biggest groups were other communists who didnt agree with the current leaders of the political party... a small percentage may have been killed simply because they were religious, but this would be a very small fraction of the deaths attributed to the party.

So again... a communist that kills is not killing for atheism, despite the fact that atheism plays a part in their political belief.

If we accept your "logic" that any Communist group that contains atheists is committing atheist murders. Then you must also accept that any political group that includes christians is committing christian murders.

Well we've already established that Hitler was a Christian.. so all his deaths are christian murders. In the United States civil war two large groups of christians, led by christians killed each other en masse. By your logic Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis were christian mass murderers.
You are stumbling over a very common logical fallacy. "Correlation does not equal causation"

There are however, countless cases of atrocities committed directly for christian doctrine. These are deaths caused by christianity, in the name of christianity, for no other reason that to spread religion and reduce opposition to religion.

 

[Altpersona]

In any debate or argument, there is a thing called the burden of proof. You want to make a ridiculous claim about more atheist murders than religious.. the burden of proof is on you.

You keep claiming all these "Atheist Murders" then giving examples of Communist Leaders and deaths attributed to them. People were killed under these Communist regimes for countless reasons, one of the biggest groups were other communists who didnt agree with the current leaders of the political party... a small percentage may have been killed simply because they were religious, but this would be a very small fraction of the deaths attributed to the party.

So again... a communist that kills is not killing for atheism, despite the fact that atheism plays a part in their political belief.

If we accept your "logic" that any Communist group that contains atheists is committing atheist murders. Then you must also accept that any political group that includes christians is committing christian murders.

Well we've already established that Hitler was a Christian.. so all his deaths are christian murders. In the United States civil war two large groups of christians, led by christians killed each other en masse. By your logic Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis were christian mass murderers.
You are stumbling over a very common logical fallacy. "Correlation does not equal causation"

There are however, countless cases of atrocities committed directly for christian doctrine. These are deaths caused by christianity, in the name of christianity, for no other reason that to spread religion and reduce opposition to religion.

Shut the **** up gay boy ^^b

 

[Aran]

Get out.

 

[Mishkam]

Shut the **** up gay boy ^^b

why don't you go play a nice long game of hide and go F*** yourself.

 

[Altpersona]

why don't you go play a nice long game of hide and go F*** yourself.

Because you're a ****** that needs to be asked to shut the **** up ^^b Now pipe back down we're bored of you.

 

[Mishkam]

DIAF self righteous twunt.

 

[Altpersona]

DIAF self righteous twunt.

Oh my, die in a fire, Die in a FIRE! How original of you :rollseyes: You're not very good at this internets thing are you my dear? =)

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Oh my, die in a fire, Die in a FIRE! How original of you :rollseyes: You're not very good at this internets thing are you my dear? =)

Neither are you...la

 

[Altpersona]

Neither are you...la

lol don't even get me started on you

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Neither are you...la

lol don't even get me started on you

Oh please don't let me keep you from ranting about something you know nothing about...la

 

[Altpersona]

Oh please don't let me keep you from ranting about something you know nothing about...la

You're right. Your post history speaks for itself ^^b la?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

You're right.

qft...la

 

[Aran]

Butts

 

[Mishkam]

DIAF self righteous twunt.

Oh my, die in a fire, Die in a FIRE! How original of you :rollseyes: You're not very good at this internets thing are you my dear? =)

someone named altpersona is going to talk to me about originality? seriously... go away, you aren't armed for a battle of wits.

 

[Altpersona]

someone named altpersona is going to talk to me about originality? seriously... go away, you aren't armed for a battle of wits.

XD Wow... Just wow. Please Alex Mortenson, try your best coz so far I haven't been impressed. Oh, and DIAF you weapon ^^b

 

[Aran]

Oh man you figured out his name, I bet he's scared now!

 

[Altpersona]

Oh man you figured out his name, I bet he's scared now!

I know RIGHT!? And he'll totally be like, "OMGZ what more does he know about my tranny, snake interfering self?", and I'll be all "Mwhaha" being all smug with myself getting ma freak awn!

 

[Aran]

Get out.

 

[Altpersona]

If you don't want to play then shut the **** up ^^b

 

[Mishkam]

yawn....

grow a set... get off your alt account... then go play a nice long game of hide and go f**k yourself.

 

[Altpersona]

yawn....

grow a set... get off your alt account... then go play a nice long game of hide and go f**k yourself.

Oh hahaha I see what you did there, So witty! Your so avant garde with regards to humor I could spit ^^b But seriously, you're doing yourself an injustice baiting me because I respond just for 'teh lulz' and of course that says more about you than I. =)

 

[Mishkam]

Your so avant garde..

you're

idiot.

 

[Mishkam]

I respond just for 'teh lulz' and of course that says more about you than I. =)

and you also say things like 'teh lulz' which proves you to be an imbecilic twunt.

 

[Altpersona]

and you also say things like 'teh lulz' which proves you to be an imbecilic twunt.

Too... Easy... Must, Not, fall into temptation

 

[Mishkam]

grow a sack

 

[Altpersona]

I need one?

Well I've done my job ^^b happy posting. And this is just for you =)

 

[Mishkam]

 

[Kirthag]

Back to debate please.....

In an attempt to bring back some intellectual debate - for I do love a good debate, especially religiously motivated ones - makes the brain tick.


MuffinBear: States there are more deaths attributed to atheism than christianity "in recent history"

Mishkam: begs to differ




I'd like to see "in recent history" defined. Would that be the 19th century forward? The 18th century forward? Exactly what is "recent history" please. I've seen several wars mentioned, as far back as the 19th century...

For the sake of reference, I will use 19th century forward (1801 to present).

Both parties tend to cite sources, Mishkams being more reliable and pointed, yet neither party actually supports their sources with... fact. Both say to go research... well.. I LOVE researching things! Is a hobby of mine... ^.^


Being as the documented conflicts of the past two centuries are... numerous (to say the least)... I rely on Wikipedia for assistance.

19th century (1801 - 1900)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:19th-century_conflicts
--- 400 listings, each with subcategories related to various conflicts and almost all of the named conflicts worldwide

20th century (1901 - 2000)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_century#Wars_and_politics
--- probably not a complete list, but pretty thorough up to the 1950's



And now, what exactly is atheism?

a⋅the⋅ism
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Origin:
1580–90; < Gk áthe(os) godless + -ism

Depending on which side of the religious fence you stand, atheism can be one or the other. Personal belief and faith are hard to categorize in any conflict - for where exactly does the letter of doctrine state that one must fight for their faith? Oh wait... it IS there (in the Bhagdava Gida, In the Bible, in the Koran, in Jewish texts, in the Tao, in the I Ching). In one form or another, one must fight to prove their worth, their faith, and their standing in whichever chosen religion. (Yes, I've read A LOT).

In the Old Testament, we (collectively human kind) are charged with populating and ruling the earth - and so we have. But that ruling part is open to interpretation by each written text, scripture, koran, bible and what not. Even those of non-religion tendencies have fought for many different reasons in many different lands. At the root of most conflicts is this...
"I want what you have and I'm gonna get it."

From the crusades to the gulf wars... that is exactly what it is. Every conflict can find its base in jealousy, greed, suppositions and mis-communications - even the "religiously motivated" wars linked to below. If one were to dig back into history, politics, relations and religion... you will find, time and time again, it all comes down to the have's and have-not's bickering over what is fair, right and just.




Now, just WHO is atheist?

An atheist leader makes for an atheist death.

By that meaning, if a general under Stalin was secretly a Russian orthodox catholic (and there were many-many-many of them who hid their religious beliefs for many-many-many reasons), do the killings he committed under order make them religious deaths just because of his religion? The argument is a fallacy in itself, for there is no way to determine that a death is religious simply based on the presented material or because the leader was atheist, muslim, christain, etc. Instead, deaths are attributed to various wars, and the causes of those wars mostly political, power driven and economically based. The ones linked to below have tangible, documented proof of their religious cause(s). By some debate rules, those should be the only ones used in the argument.....


We are looking at the 19th & 20th centuries, right?

Napoleon, as a catholic, is not remembered as a religious leader - but as a unifier of France and a military genius. The deaths attributed to the Napoleonic Wars number in the millions - and are not counted as religious deaths - thus keeping those deaths from the count.

The communistic takeover of China was not so much based on religion, but based on the extreme growth of the population which caused unlimited amounts of strife in starving provinces. It also grew as a knee-jerk reaction and safeguard from Western influences. Although the Cultural Revolution denounced the heavily rich religions of China, it did nothing but drive them into the underground. Even Mau himself did revere and pay homage to his ancestors... which was the predominant "religion" and school of thought for China. As such, the deaths pointed out as being atheist were not carried out in the name of atheism, but in the name of communism, and are kept from the count.

The slaughter of the hundreds of thousands of Native Americans (First Nation People) of North and South America was never about religion nor performed on religious ideal.. but that of greed, fear and ignorance. These shall not be in the count.

World War II can loosely be based on religious fervor, but is far from atheistic in nature. It is actually a bunch of smaller wars being held in different parts of the world that all joined together in the early 1940's.

European Wars - Hitler, a christain, did not have a religious or anti-religious stance.. he had an anti-Jew policy. That is genocide, not religion or atheism. Germany was crippled economically and politically as a result of the end of WWI and to put it mildly, Hitler just wanted a politically strong and unified Germany. He gave support to Spain and Italy, hoping for favors in return for his "generosity". Great Britain and France, starting to see problems, made a unified front and extended protection to several smaller European countries as Hitler broke the treaties signed by Germany at the end of WWI.

Asian Wars - Japan and China kept having battles over who was boss of the Sea of Japan (we all know how that turned out). Japan felt threatened by the growth of communism in China, and as a result signed a non-aggression pact with Germany (and at length, Italy & Spain) so as to form a unified front against the growth of communism.

Mussolini became dictator over Italy, promising a new roman empire to Italians. Supported by Hitler and Germanic arms & resources, Mussolini set his sites on northern Africa for conquest.

The end of the Russian civil wars put Stalin in charge of the Soviet Union, who had growing concerns over Hitler's activity in eastern Europe. Secret treaties were signed by Stalin & Hitler, but fell through as Germanic forces kept testing the Russian border.

The US, getting concerned over what was happening on the other side of the planet, issues the Act of Neutrality - trying to stay out of it all.

Events that triggered the wars of WWII
--Japan invades China
--Italy invades Ethiopia
--Germany invades Poland

Japan, in an effort to secure their perimeter and to ensure against American involvement, bombed Pearl Harbor and Malaya. This resulted in Australia, the United States, Britain, China and several other western European countries to formally declare war on Japan, thus sealing the entire world into war.


None of that was religiously motivated... nor was it based on the spread of atheism (and the ending of religion). If anything, Japan most wanted to wipe out communism....






Short list of documented RELIGIOUS wars:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_wars

There are not many of these, and this list goes back to the Crusades (which ended up being over land, trade routes and money - and in some minds is still being fought today in various ways).






As many as there are ideas, there are reasons for conflict. Even here, in this forum, people take sides based on their own ideology and faith...

Does the fact that Mishkam wants proof of MuffinBear's statements make Mishkam wrong? No. But yet MuffinBear stands by his (her?) faith in what has been taught and will wave yon christian flag against atheism - and that doesn't make MuffinBear right either....

So who is to say one is right and the other wrong. The Facts....

TRACEABLE Death Tolls by wars in the 20th century
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

I present here this white-page of information, traceable and documented fact. Go read for yourself, and draw your conclusions.






In closing
Ever since the Industrial Revolution, wars have been based on ideals, which can be loosely tied to religion. Be it for any religious figurehead, fanatical ideal, financial gain.... war is really not a solution. No conflict is. Resolution is found in communication and an agreed upon understanding of the interpretation of facts. Not a one of us can say that Stalin killed people in the name of atheism. Atheism is of itself a bit anarchistic - not seeking form or reform, but is part of a cycle of freedom and enlightenment. It is how ideas are born, challenged and come to be accepted or disputed. Just as religion itself in all forms has come to be.


Sometime back, a caveman stood up and told everyone why the sky was blue (even if he was wrong). He was the first leader... and perhaps, the first god.



signed:
Keeper of Pagan Knowledge
Student of Life
The Id of Kirthag

 

[Aran]

Re: Back to debate please.....

tl;dr

 

[Kirthag]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tl;dr

 

[Aran]

You had to look it up?