[UO Herald] Pet Dyes

[Gellor]

Gellor: When you've quite finished leaping to erroneous conclussions you might try looking around a bit, and maybe re-reading things.
1. the survey was linked to from uoforums as well as Stratics. I don't frequent many other sites, so I'm not sure if there were more.
2. Regine's previous post referred to 'results from Japan'. Stratics posters were not the only group consulted, by any means.

Petra,
I wasn't referring to this case of EA only reacting to Stratics. As I've said more than once, I applaud EA for making use of a survey that was posted places OTHER than Stratics... such as in the game patch window.

In the past, they have done things upon what Stratics users said. And THAT is a case of listening to a vocal minority.

As Regine backed up what I said, there were flavors of yes and no. And obviously by the Dev teams response to the survey, the proposed hue system was NOT greatly and overwhelmingly accepted as presented.

So again, I don't see how in THIS case EA caved into the minority. What I see is EA was told the system was not liked as presented by a majority of people so they are going to take another look at it.

My hats off to the dev team for asking what people wanted and adjusting as the users requested. This restores a little bit of faith in the dev team.

 

[Tanis333]

Another arrogant I-Love-Ultima-Better-Than-You post.

Possibly, though I mentioned no names..... I know what you mean though and it may seem that way but I DO love Ultima and more to the point the ideals that go with it, or used to, or maybe still do. I don't know.
It just pains me to watch the world slowly get bogged down in more and more gimmicks. Its like giving kids playstations, sure they enjoy it and won't complain about being given it, but what use now do they have for their imaginations???

I could go into lots of comparisons here between different games such as UO vs Diablo (the classic comparison of ten years ago) but really this should be on the rant bored.

Maybe we should view UO as almost a heritage site; not left behind for time to ravage but carefully brought along with the times, modernising without compromising, keeping it fresh and new but without painting it bright purple. Which comes full circle back towards them darn pet dyes ...........

Just read Gellor's post and I agree, good to know they care.

 

[sablestorm]

maybe do a servey before they spend time adding the content? im sure they could of come up with pictures and coloured the pets to give us an idea with out actually adding it as content hell photoshop would of done... then they wouldnt of had to work on it and saved time and or money on man hours sorry and woman hours!

Actually, I remember a previous survey where they inquired about pet dyes. I can't remember now how I voted back then.

 

[Lord Urza]

Thank god Im not alone in not wanting to see Blue, and Green horses running all over the place, limiting the number of pets that could be hued to mythical creatures would be alot cooler, and more realistic IMHO

 

[Trebr Drab]

I'm upset that they are giving in to crybabies, yeah, you got that right. Why have a poll, if you're not going to go by it.

Hardly.

The "yes" vote was still ahead but you will remember that the survey and polls had more than just a yes/no option. A considerable number of the people who voted yes were only in favor conditional to certain modifications being made, most of which couldn't be handled simply from the design side and that would require way more time than what we have left before launch.

There is no point putting in something if even the majority that wants it will be disappointed with it. There is a time to stick to your guns and there's a time where it's just common sense to back down. In this instance, most of us agreed with a number of the issues/concerns that you guys raised. So we're going back to the drawing boards with the assistance of the people who can actually make what you guys wish for happen (artists and engineers).

I was prophesied that good wouldst triumph over evil. Let it begin!

 

[hen]

Possibly, though I mentioned no names..... I know what you mean though and it may seem that way but I DO love Ultima and more to the point the ideals that go with it, or used to, or maybe still do. I don't know.
It just pains me to watch the world slowly get bogged down in more and more gimmicks. Its like giving kids playstations, sure they enjoy it and won't complain about being given it, but what use now do they have for their imaginations???

I could go into lots of comparisons here between different games such as UO vs Diablo (the classic comparison of ten years ago) but really this should be on the rant bored.

Maybe we should view UO as almost a heritage site; not left behind for time to ravage but carefully brought along with the times, modernising without compromising, keeping it fresh and new but without painting it bright purple. Which comes full circle back towards them darn pet dyes ...........

Just read Gellor's post and I agree, good to know they care.

Well Skara Brae is already a World Heritage Site, so why not?

 

[sablestorm]

Possibly, though I mentioned no names..... I know what you mean though and it may seem that way but I DO love Ultima and more to the point the ideals that go with it, or used to, or maybe still do. I don't know.
It just pains me to watch the world slowly get bogged down in more and more gimmicks. Its like giving kids playstations, sure they enjoy it and won't complain about being given it, but what use now do they have for their imaginations???

I could go into lots of comparisons here between different games such as UO vs Diablo (the classic comparison of ten years ago) but really this should be on the rant bored.

Maybe we should view UO as almost a heritage site; not left behind for time to ravage but carefully brought along with the times, modernising without compromising, keeping it fresh and new but without painting it bright purple. Which comes full circle back towards them darn pet dyes ...........

I can appreciate your passion for it but will you concede that this is a debate about personal tastes? It's much the same as debating cinematography decisions in movies. Watching the Lord of the Rings movies was like watching a painting come to life and the color was much more subdued than say a Pirates of the Carribean where there was bright sunlight and sparkling blue oceans. In general, I prefer the brighter more vibrant cinematography. It's more immersive for me personally, but that is not to say the more muted hues are wrong. I would've been interested to see the LotR movies done more vibrantly however. Would it have been better? Who knows and I certainly understand why they went the way they did.

Now I understand my previous paragraph probably gives you ammunition. You'll liken UO to the Lord of the Rings movie and will suggest that it deserves to be treated in a classic more hued sense. As I mention elsewhere, however, UO has had bright rehues for quite some time and I personally have never been bothered with it. The fact that monsters rehue whenever they attack you has never bothered me. I was never bothered by EMs using rehued creatures as their special villains in events. Then there was the subject of the lime green rehued ostard graphics used for ridgebacks. They were pretty popular, but fell into disfavor when the Ridgebacks got their own graphic. Again, I think I prefer the old ostard graphic to the new graphic (no offense to the artist to conceptualized it).

When we talk about UO in a classical sense, however, it was never about the graphics, in my opinion. UO was and is far more flexible than just about any MMO out there, which allows us players to be infinitely creative. That's why I think allowing pet hues follows in this tradition. Not everyone will like it, but then again not everyone likes crafting or house designing or pvp. What it will do, however, is add more options for players in-game and I think it will allow players to be more creative.

For example, when I heard about the hues, I immediately began brainstorming about how I could use them in my RP events. Mind you, the core members of my guild all played in a Dungeons and Dragons game back in the 80s which I based upon the Ultima setting. Here now I could dye slimes black or green and allow the players to fight those black puddings and green slimes they fought in the Underworld back in those pen and paper days. The Luna White horses could be a cross between regular horses and unicorns who didn't inherit the horn, but inherited the glossy silver-white coat of it's unicorn parent. Now RP-wise, would a unicorn deign to mate with a horse? Well, perhaps it's a redneck unicorn. As for the more outlandish hues, would I use a pink or bright purple dragon? Probably not, but what if ImaNewbie were still making cartoons and he saw fit to make use of one for one of his comics? Despite the fact I might not find it useful, that doesn't mean it can't contribute to the larger community somewhere.

The reality is, it'd be great if we could all have UO exactly as we personally want it and all other players fall into line with that thinking. I understand the bright colors affect some people's immersion into the game. As a roleplayer, seeing Paris Hilton run by me in-game sorta does the same. Even a name like ImaNewbie, with his outrageous dress might have this affect, but we've always soldiered through and wound up using our imagination to make it work.

 

[Stupid Miner]

10 gp says they get side tracked, forget about this, and it gets implemented in another decade.

 

[JC the Builder]

10 gp says they get side tracked, forget about this, and it gets implemented in another decade.

We can only hope. There is so much else that needs attention. Pet dyes are trivial by comparison.

 

[Mephistos]

We can only hope. There is so much else that needs attention. Pet dyes are trivial by comparison.

Then channel your efforts into something that really matters. If you put a comparative amount of effort into the important issues, instead of this trivial one, imagine how fast things would get done...

 

[Kratos Aurion]

I'm for creating new artistic variations for current in game pets, but the approach of select HUE#, point/click is just not in my opinion the best approach. It may please some of the people, but I would rather take it a step further and take current pet models and develop new artistic characteristics that USE new hues in the design. The best example would be the Hiryu, although it was a fair attempt but not quite there (they have hued talons, and streaks of red/black etc).

 

[Heartseeker]

10 gp says they get side tracked, forget about this, and it gets implemented in another decade.

We can only hope. There is so much else that needs attention. Pet dyes are trivial by comparison.

Much like your posts....trivial.

You seem to cry the loudest when many ppl were very excited about this.

 

[John Merchant]

Please address a real issue!

How about responding to the requests for fixing the Zento wall bug that has been brought up for OVER A YEAR?

Pet Dyes? Rediculous way to nerf and denaturalize the game.... once again

Zento wall housing bug... please address this... see the link below:

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=152550

 

[Doubleplay]

My toon is getting saddle sores from refusing to dismount her berserker red dyed dragon barding equipped swampie. Hope the anti dye crowd doesn't decide to request that logging off will auto dismount toons. Sheesh, whatever happened to diversity?

 

[Stupid Miner]

We can only hope. There is so much else that needs attention. Pet dyes are trivial by comparison.

Yea... that's one opinion. Luckily there are lots more opinions. Personally I like the opinions that run contrary this one of yours.

 

[JC the Builder]

Much like your posts....trivial.

You seem to cry the loudest when many ppl were very excited about this.

No need to get snippy.

I just voiced my concerns and rebutted a few claims. For instance the one claiming they were using new artwork. It wasn't much of anything.

 

[Sweeney]

10 gp says they get side tracked, forget about this, and it gets implemented in another decade.

2010 is only a few months away...

 

[Mephistos]

I just voiced my concerns and rebutted a few claims. For instance the one claiming they were using new artwork. It wasn't much of anything.

Don't downplay your efforts.. It was truely a masterpiece of work! You personally posted more posts in the "poll" thread, than anyone else. You made an anti-dye signature and made it available for all your minions. You were the driving force behind getting rid of pet dyes. You should be proud of your efforts. Stand up, take your rewards! And like I said, perhaps you can focus all that energy into something that perhaps will be more important, and less trivial...

 

[Kiminality]

You were the driving force behind getting rid of pet dyes.

Firstly, they haven't been "got rid of". So, they're not being rushed out for the SA release, but you're making the huge assumption that this means it's never going to happen.
Secondly, desires like "not having green llamas" are probably more of the reason it's delayed.

But, by your logic, I think I'm going to crown you the driving force behind stupid posts on Uhall.
Proper good job!

 

[Trash Collector]

We have heard you.

Yeah, but are you listening?

It was a survey run with an end date that placed it too late to legitimately follow-through with the results in a timely manner. What's the point in that?

The second half of the survey was nothing but "what colors do you like best?" Where was the *none of the above* option?

I've been rethinking continuing with UO after playing for 10 years. Poor planning, people.

Oh, I should point out that I am a Trammie and I'll be one of the ones who has to look at these ridiculous animals.

 

[Mijac_Chmon]

I love people getting stuck into JC.

JC has done a helluva lot more for this game and it's community than anyone else I know.

He knows what is important and what is not and puts in the effort to make the real things get attention. Then he puts his own effort into these things, as well.

So some pixelcrackers are complaining about him. Trust me, it'll be water off a duck's back and he'll just keep doing what he does best - pushing the game forward.

 

[JC the Builder]

And like I said, perhaps you can focus all that energy into something that perhaps will be more important, and less trivial...

Maybe stuff like............

Maintaining perhaps the largest information site for UO
or running the 3rd/4th largest UO forum
or creating a replacement for UOAM
or starting the whole faction revitalization (no link, Stratics lost the topic in a crash)

Stuff like that?

 

[Trash Collector]

Stuff like that?

Good stuff!

My wife's reading over my shoulder and she saw your 'No Pet Dyes' banner. She agrees with you.

 

[Heartseeker]

And like I said, perhaps you can focus all that energy into something that perhaps will be more important, and less trivial...

Maybe stuff like............

Maintaining perhaps the largest information site for UO
or running the 3rd/4th largest UO forum
or creating a replacement for UOAM
or starting the whole faction revitalization (no link, Stratics lost the topic in a crash)

Stuff like that?

....Or undermining all new clients that are released...

Running the largest Zerg Guild on the Largest Shard....(controlling all scrolls)

Keeps pushing to keep the 2D Client and supporting software... UOAssist, UOAM....

Ya you're a real peach.

PS. But thx for the info sites......

 

[JC the Builder]

....Or undermining all new clients that are released...

I haven't put down the new Enhanced Client in any way. I think it could work with some more tweaks. Well a lot of tweaks.

Running the largest Zerg Guild on the Largest Shard....(controlling all scrolls)

I'm not the guildmaster and I've hardly played UO in several months now. So that is definitely not running anything. Even if I was, there is nothing wrong with running a guild to control a resource which was designed to be controlled.

Keeps pushing to keep the 2D Client and supporting software... UOAssist, UOAM....

What is wrong with supporting UOAssist and UOAM? They are important applications which have been staples of playing UO for a decade now. You can't expect a new client to be adopted if they are not brought along with it.

 

[Petra Fyde]

uoa and uoam aren't needed for the enhanced client, except for a couple of specialised things like organiser agent the enhanced client can do what uoa does, and several things it can't - like changing just part of your kit, undressing and dressing in one move instead of a slow progression etc.

 

[Siteswap]

Don't downplay your efforts.. It was truely a masterpiece of work!

I agree. It was.

You were the driving force behind getting rid of pet dyes. You should be proud of your efforts.

JC and the rest of the posters who rallied for common sense to prevail didnt get rid of pet dyes. What they did was make sure that EA implemented them properly and in a manner fitting for this great game rather than the trashy freeshard style that the likes of you were prepared to accept. So yes ... he should be proud of his efforts.

 

[Mijac_Chmon]

Maybe stuff like............

Maintaining perhaps the largest information site for UO
or running the 3rd/4th largest UO forum
or creating a replacement for UOAM
or starting the whole faction revitalization (no link, Stratics lost the topic in a crash)

Stuff like that?

Don't forget your constant contributions to the crafting discussion.

 

[Lord Urza]

So close after 4 years of hoping, yet so far!


I prefer the job be done right, even if it takes a bit longer.


Today is one of those days that I have been asking myself:


Why am I playing this game again?


Most of the players I know are just...subpar... is the nicest way I can think to put it.


I wouldn't hang out with any of them in real life so why do I try to do it online?


( Yeah not sure subpar is a word but the only other word(s) that come to mind would get bleeped).


Then I get this news and though I have hope I know enough about EA Games to know it probably means no pet dyes ever.


Hanging by a thread here EA.


I JUST need one more thing and the castle and keeps and zento house are filled with npc vendors from my other accts (OSI FTW), all my good stuff is getting trashed, and one of the best days of my life will begin.


The day I FINALLY quit UO for good.


Hmmm, I actually have been wishing I'd get hacked...life has been calling.






If your round and short with a big hole as a head and your name is Trash Barrel then yes, you can have my stuff.

I would suggest taking a trip to the trash barrel if this is how you feel about it.
Your "sub par" personallity isnt one id want on my shard anyhow.
Just post your account info and stop wishing you would get hacked.

LIFES CALLING!

 

[Berethrain]

If your round and short with a big hole as a head and your name is Trash Barrel then yes, you can have my stuff.

I think I can make a character that fits that description. The hole is just a minor detail.

 

[Mephistos]

Maybe stuff like............

Maintaining perhaps the largest information site for UO
or running the 3rd/4th largest UO forum
or creating a replacement for UOAM
or starting the whole faction revitalization (no link, Stratics lost the topic in a crash)

Stuff like that?

You misunderstood my post. I was congratulating you. I know about those things up there, and actually use them myself.

There is so much else that needs attention. Pet dyes are trivial by comparison.

My mentioning of campaigning for more important things was in reference to your quote above, not web sites. Perhaps if you were as vocal as you were anti-pet dye to more in game issues then those more important issues could be addressed as well.

I hope the next time the developers want to give us something extra, you and I are on the same fence, cause whatever it is you campaign for, it's gonna probably win...

 

[Trebr Drab]

JC's campaigning only serves to add information for people to use, but it's the players who decide on their own. There's a tendency to think that "other people" can be swayed, it's ingrained in our nature. But it's not the case. People can be informed, they can be ignorant, but they do make up their own minds based on their knowledge and experience. Sometimes that leaves a lot to be desired, but any campaigns being done...from multiple angles in this case...only serve to better inform people.

 

[Ghost71]

What is the big deal? The dyes only last so long? Just anything else for people to complain about.

 

[JC the Builder]

What is the big deal? The dyes only last so long? Just anything else for people to complain about.

As currently proposed they would last almost 3 months if you played 2 hours every day. They were not that difficult to get in the first place and I think you could even purchase them from other players.

 

[sablestorm]

As currently proposed they would last almost 3 months if you played 2 hours every day. They were not that difficult to get in the first place and I think you could even purchase them from other players.

And four people all bank sitting together in the same hues of red, blue, or green effectively do the same thing a dyed dragon would do to your eyes, but their dyed clothing has no time limit. Oh Noes! Shall we now institute a no loitering policy if you all dress in the same colors?

 

[Trebr Drab]

Edit to delete snarky words.

 

[talon77x2]

I don't understand why make pet dyes? I mean why not just add some new hue's to the creatures that spawn.

What angers me about this is the simple fact I earn my pets with special hue's with hours and months of taming. And now your going to add pet hue's, then a few months later people are going to complain that there isn't enough colors and bam we suddenly now have blaze and glacial pet dyes. Leaving me, the one who tamed cu's for MONTHS to get a blaze and earn the proper respect of having such a creature.

I see this as another attack on tamers. I mean first they gave us controll slots, which sucked but yeah we ruled, then a few years later they made all the old school pets suck, who has a use for a dragon now? when was the last time you saw a white wyrm fighting? Then they punished us again my making creatures unattackable for tamers, and finally the latest blow pet dye's.

Besides the anti tamer policy that seems to be going on now, did you really look at the dye'd creatures? Seriously they look laughably horrible, and it's almost an embaressment to claim this as alot of work, or even effort.

I make my money taming rare colored pets, this really makes me mad. If you do this then atleast make all champ spawns have power scrolls. That is the compareable damage to me. I would welcome pet dye's if i didn't have to face the gank squads in fel.

Final thing to note. Everyone here knows as a fact that if pet dyes get implamented people will complain untill they get there rare dye's and then everyone and their grandma will have blaze and glacial everything.

I remember why I stopped posting in the forums years ago, and now i remember that it made me physically sick looking at implamentation mistakes. examples (insurance)(removal of power, vanquishing titled weapons)(removal of the bounty system, which actually was the death of fel)(the first attempt at a 3d client (roflao it was horrible). I'm sure there was more.

 

[Siteswap]

when was the last time you saw a white wyrm fighting?

I use my WW quite regularly. You dont always have to use the most powwerful pet all of the time. Its fun to vary it and also to hunt with 'old school' pets as well.

 

[bumblefutz]

I give JC credit for destroying pet dyes, and what's more I FEAST ON THE TEARS OF THOSE WHO WANTED THEM. BUAHAHAHAHA.

 

[Yalp]

Please provide toggles for offending things like pet colors (when you add them), weather including snow and rain and a toggle for Fel foliage.

ooh ooh.. I love that idea but don't stop there! Toggles for griefers and gankers.. and toggles for numbnut selfish prigs! Ooh and toggles for scripters and dupers! Yeah let's turn them off too!

 

[ACB1961]

Hardly.

The "yes" vote was still ahead but you will remember that the survey and polls had more than just a yes/no option. A considerable number of the people who voted yes were only in favor conditional to certain modifications being made, most of which couldn't be handled simply from the design side and that would require way more time than what we have left before launch.

There is no point putting in something if even the majority that wants it will be disappointed with it. There is a time to stick to your guns and there's a time where it's just common sense to back down. In this instance, most of us agreed with a number of the issues/concerns that you guys raised. So we're going back to the drawing boards with the assistance of the people who can actually make what you guys wish for happen (artists and engineers).

That's an excellent idea really. Here's my personal problem. I have an insanely great Greater Dragon. I mean this thing rocks, but he's ugly. Seriously, he is. He's very sensitive about it...

Please consider giving us some way to help our hmm less than attractive pets feel better about themselves.

I could NEVER replace this dragon so I'm going to have to use him no matter how sensitive he gets

 

[Flora Green]

That sucks. Goes to show there are certain people they listen to more then others.

Proof of that happened when they abruptly removed the ToT 1 dyes and still won't sell them here despite the Japanese store having them for a year now or better.

 

[Flora Green]

Hardly.

The "yes" vote was still ahead but you will remember that the survey and polls had more than just a yes/no option. A considerable number of the people who voted yes were only in favor conditional to certain modifications being made, most of which couldn't be handled simply from the design side and that would require way more time than what we have left before launch.

There is no point putting in something if even the majority that wants it will be disappointed with it. There is a time to stick to your guns and there's a time where it's just common sense to back down. In this instance, most of us agreed with a number of the issues/concerns that you guys raised. So we're going back to the drawing boards with the assistance of the people who can actually make what you guys wish for happen (artists and engineers).

Regarding the artists and proper hues, why not fix the plants first before adding something new for pets? It's been YEARS of people asking, and devs/artists "wanting" to fix the plant colors, yet there's always a reason it doesn't happen. Wouldn't it make sense to fix them (as well as other poorly hued objects) and THEN do the pet colors? Plus, knowing how much you dislike the plants as they are now, it might persuade you to make all of the plants available in all of the colors if they look good.

 

[Lord Urza]

Regarding the artists and proper hues, why not fix the plants first before adding something new for pets? It's been YEARS of people asking, and devs/artists "wanting" to fix the plant colors, yet there's always a reason it doesn't happen. Wouldn't it make sense to fix them (as well as other poorly hued objects) and THEN do the pet colors? Plus, knowing how much you dislike the plants as they are now, it might persuade you to make all of the plants available in all of the colors if they look good.

I agree, blanket hued items just shouldn't be, it just looks simple lazy that in almost 2010 a game putting out new content would attempt to offer up an item with a blanketed color hue.
And I still say there is no need for green,purple,blue horses, or llama, or cows...dragons would be fine, WW's , Hiryu Cu ( both only in colors they don't already spawn in) and any other "mythical" creatures.
I would hope we would maintain some semblance of realistic ness, and just not allow something like purple horses and junky looking stuff like that running around. The dev team should start shying away from putting out neon, or very brightly hued items for a very long time.
There are plenty of things that could be looked at before shiny new toys are tossed out to appease those that cant be content without a new toy every week

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I'm looking forward to a more tasteful solution for pet decoration/coloring. The plain dye was really hideous. I guess we all have the patience to wait a little longer, but receive better quality in the end.

P.S.: The easiest thing would be, to have the animals spawn in more (tasteful) hues.

 

[Viper09]

I give JC credit for destroying pet dyes, and what's more I FEAST ON THE TEARS OF THOSE WHO WANTED THEM. BUAHAHAHAHA.

Funny how you say this when they weren't destroyed at all but postponed a bit longer.

 

[Kiminality]

Funny how you say this when they weren't destroyed at all but postponed a bit longer.

you don't need to be right to be a troll

 

[Viper09]

you don't need to be right to be a troll

*looks around* I'm just trying to prevent the flooding of rumors here
Pet dyes are not scrapped or destroyed.

 

[Tanivar]

<Laugh>

Go onto Chesapeake and to the Fairgrounds by the south gate of Luna. There is a monster in a cage in the NE corner that shows bluntly what the game would be like if the bulk of the 'Yes!' voters had got thier way.

<gags and hopes UO never sinks to this>

 

[Tanis333]

.....When we talk about UO in a classical sense, however, it was never about the graphics, in my opinion. UO was and is far more flexible than just about any MMO out there, which allows us players to be infinitely creative. That's why I think allowing pet hues follows in this tradition. Not everyone will like it, but then again not everyone likes crafting or house designing or pvp. What it will do, however, is add more options for players in-game and I think it will allow players to be more creative.

For example, when I heard about the hues, I immediately began brainstorming about how I could use them in my RP events. Mind you, the core members of my guild all played in a Dungeons and Dragons game back in the 80s which I based upon the Ultima setting. Here now I could dye slimes black or green and allow the players to fight those black puddings and green slimes they fought in the Underworld back in those pen and paper days. The Luna White horses could be a cross between regular horses and unicorns who didn't inherit the horn, but inherited the glossy silver-white coat of it's unicorn parent. Now RP-wise, would a unicorn deign to mate with a horse? Well, perhaps it's a redneck unicorn. As for the more outlandish hues, would I use a pink or bright purple dragon? Probably not, but what if ImaNewbie were still making cartoons and he saw fit to make use of one for one of his comics? Despite the fact I might not find it useful, that doesn't mean it can't contribute to the larger community somewhere.

Your words ring painfully true, I have always fought I was open minded but apparently not! Of course it is true the people who have made this game great for so long are not about to go and do stupid things now, yes the Imanewbie's will be around but hell, they all ways were!
Thanks for opening my eyes. Blessings