We've talked about rebalancing all monsters to match the current state of UO

[Maplestone]

One of the reasons I strictly PvP is the fact nothing is a real challenge with the right template and gear.

So if challenge is what you seek, why not go out with the wrong template and gear?

( it's a serious question - what would it take to make you de-equip? What if there was an incentive, as I mentioned in my last post, for you to play with reduced gear? Or would that even help in end? Does the mere ability to be able to decipher the AI and design a strategy take you out of the experience, no matter how weak/strong the creature is? )

 

[StifledArgument]

Ok, my two cents as a returning player - this response is pointed to the devs.

I have to say that while I understand the need to "rebalance" creatures. I think it is not a needed thing at the current time.

I personally found out the hard way that some things have already changed. I had heard about greater dragons, but had them wipe the floor with me. Lady of the Snow, same thing with Necro. Lich Lords, same thing. I have not even tried peerless yet because I found out my pally dexxer isn't as good a template anymore, nor is my pure mage. I haven't even had time to re-adjust the templates yet to get them to where they are good as the new and improved templates everyone raves about. I do not have the correct gear anymore for a decent amount of my characters.

I had to shelve my white wyrm and get a lot of new pets because none of the ones I had were sufficient to kill a decent amount of the higher end mobs out there. Now, I have new pets that are not even trained fully.

I have limited time to play right now. I do not have time to fight one creature for 5 minutes. I do not have time to find out that ogres suddenly can one shot me if they are "rebalanced". I imagine I am not the only returning player who feels that they are already behind the 8 ball and now if things are rebalanced, even the things we can fight will suddenly be uber. The assumption everyone has the powerscrolled uber templates with the perfect gear is a false assumption. Make the creatures in the expansion way harder in the appropriate areas, where these uber templates will even have a hard time. Don't nerf everyone and everything into the ground, just make the newer creatures harder. I never really hunted in Tokuno until the ToT event, but I can say that those are fun and a challenge. But I don't expect to have a headless one in original UO content to kill me instantly...and if I did, I wouldn't stay.

I think if you want to do something for the game that will have a greater impact, and will bring more people like me back, focus on the dupes, exploits, and scripters (and speed hackers, I don't pvp, but I imagine that would stink if I did). Risk the accounts of the people who pollute the game. Make a press release about what you have done to stop them and the returning people will outnumber the cheating ones. And if it doesn't, so be it. Then UO is officially dead and it would be the end. Do I want it to end? Hell no, but these complaints about what is happening is more important than whether a reaper can insta-gank me (they still hurt my mules, who frequently die to them)

Work on getting your new client spotless and beautiful where more people would migrate to it.

Put more content and polish up the ocean content and ships.

You, as devs, have very limited resources to do new things as it is, or to work on existing things. Don't attempt to take on something so big that you won't be able to do what needs to be done first off. And don't drive away people that are trying to get a handle on all the things that have changed.

Ok, shutting up, but that is my two cents.

 

[Stupid Miner]

I imagine I am not the only returning player who feels that they are already behind the 8 ball and now if things are rebalanced, even the things we can fight will suddenly be uber.

The problem with this is... once you get better at UO again, you'll think the monsters are too easy. No offense intended, but being a newb isn't a very good excuse to leaving creatures weak. Being a newb only lasts so long. (substitute "newb" for "unskilled" if you prefer)

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I imagine I am not the only returning player who feels that they are already behind the 8 ball and now if things are rebalanced, even the things we can fight will suddenly be uber.

The problem with this is... once you get better at UO again, you'll think the monsters are too easy. No offense intended, but being a newb isn't a very good excuse to leaving creatures weak. Being a newb only lasts so long. (substitute "newb" for "unskilled" if you prefer)

The poster never said he was a Newb. He said he was a returning player.

Reading some of these posts, it seems to clear that the majority if not all of them like yours assumes a crap load of things. Not the least of which is that every one will go for the Uber Suits+Items+pets. That is certainly a play style, it is not the only play style.

Perhaps an assumption is made that the people will just go buy their way to Ultra Uberness. That may be one way of doing it, but it is not the only way to do it.

Perhaps an assumption is made that the people will just make a mad dash for the I Beat UO Finish Line vs Hey I am having fun with the journey the Goal of Beating UO is not all that appealing.

I think it safe to "assume" we are not all cut from the same Cookie Cutter. That some will want to be able to kill All Peerless day one. That some will not even be interested in ever seeing a Peerless.

 

[Kaleb]

One of the reasons I strictly PvP is the fact nothing is a real challenge with the right template and gear.

So if challenge is what you seek, why not go out with the wrong template and gear?

( it's a serious question - what would it take to make you de-equip? What if there was an incentive, as I mentioned in my last post, for you to play with reduced gear? Or would that even help in end? Does the mere ability to be able to decipher the AI and design a strategy take you out of the experience, no matter how weak/strong the creature is? )

Only way would be pre aos, the AI is too predictable and once figured out its like taking out trammies at champspawns.

 

[Maplestone]

Only way would be pre aos, the AI is too predictable and once figured out its like taking out trammies at champspawns.

uh ... if the AI is too predictable, then wouldn't it make more sense to request more unpredictable AI?

Given there are more trammies than fellies in the world, isn't trashing their combat abilities in a PvM difficulty discussion sort of like saying "Hey! Ignore Me!" ?

 

[Magdalene]

Rebalancing? Yes, please.
As long as it doesn't mean giving every higher end mob a million HP and insta-kill attacks. Unfortunately, this has been the preferred "rebalancing" method...

Oh, and PLEASE stop putting "ring taming +1 fire resist+1" sort of objects on creatures, it's a waste of bandwidth.

 

[UOKaiser]

Only way would be pre aos, the AI is too predictable and once figured out its like taking out trammies at champspawns.

LoL I have a idea. Lets go to twisted weald toghether. I'll wait by the forest. You get youre best character and head in by yourself then come back with all the keys without dying or even bashing a sweat. Am not even asking you to solo dreadhorn just grab those keys without a death and walk back to me as you can't run in the desert so you need to walk. Thats it.

 

[Kaleb]

LOL I solo peerless all the time.

 

[Kaleb]

uh ... if the AI is too predictable, then wouldn't it make more sense to request more unpredictable AI?

Given there are more trammies than fellies in the world, isn't trashing their combat abilities in a PvM difficulty discussion sort of like saying "Hey! Ignore Me!" ?

No that's what i call them cause that's what they are, Im not gonna try to sugar coat it lol.

 

[Tina Small]

My vote is to leave the low-end monsters alone for the benefit of new players, returning players, and people who want to make characters on new shards. Buff stuff up and all you do is tempt people into spending real money to buy gold from brokers to buy uber gear and/or to buy advanced character tokens.

Also, buffing up the low-end monsters says to me that the developers have given up on the idea of the game ever attracting truly new players and that they intend to spend most of the dollars budgeted for developing UO on stuff that caters to bored vet players who have everything they could possibly want in the game except something they can't kill in two hits.

 

[UOKaiser]

LOL I solo peerless all the time.

No No solo peerless is one thing I have to go with you so I can see you got all the keys without dying and by going through the desert. Key point must do all of it alone without being rezzed or self rez.

 

[Whinemaker]

You still would find Dragons in Destard, Lizardmen in Despise and Undead in Deceit or in the Ankh Dungeon. However, they would behave more intelligently.

Farming and the current BOD system are an issue, which should be solved, too. UO is more than just an item farming game. It should be a game of adventure and exploration. I'm sad that item farming (and items in general) have become the center of Ultima Online, which was not the case during the Early Days.

Why not be courageous for the first time and change the system of mindless repetitive tasks?

By the way, making ressources more difficult to acquire would not be a disadvantage, as it would affect every player in the same way. Probably prices for certain items would go up.

It would affect everyone the same way, but then I think in the long run it would only make the rich stays rich but those already "poor" more poor.

Personally speaking, I'm already having a hard time trying to cope with the current economy so I don't want to see prices go up even more than they are now. I've been playing quite a lot lately (about 1.5-2.5 hours a day, 4-5 days a week) and I still find it difficult to pull in enough gold to equip my chars unless I go spawn camping, but even so I can only manage around 100k per log-in (that's usually when my body says enough is enough you need to get off the hamster wheel).

In an MMORPG environment those who play more always get an advantage. I don't think making the spawn more random is a good solution, the "determined" (i.e. people who play UO like a full time job) will still be camping, but it'll be switched from camping a spot to a whole dungeon. Imagine people screaming "wtf are you doing this is my dungeon!" instead of "this is my spot" hehe.

I'm all for making them "behave more intelligently" though. The pack instinct is an idea, but again, they need to make it right that newbies with all 40-50 resist and 60-ish skills can survive without getting ganked by the monsters too hard, and I agree with Tina about leaving the lower end monsters alone.

And on a seperate note... the deal on reapers being hard in the old days... that's only because 2 flame strikes could kill someone with 0 magic resist waaay back then.

 

[UOKaiser]

It would affect everyone the same way, but then I think in the long run it would only make the rich stays rich but those already "poor" more poor.

Personally speaking, I'm already having a hard time trying to cope with the current economy so I don't want to see prices go up even more than they are now. I've been playing quite a lot lately (about 1.5-2.5 hours a day, 4-5 days a week) and I still find it difficult to pull in enough gold to equip my chars unless I go spawn camping, but even so I can only manage around 100k per log-in (that's usually when my body says enough is enough you need to get off the hamster wheel).

In an MMORPG environment those who play more always get an advantage. I don't think making the spawn more random is a good solution, the "determined" (i.e. people who play UO like a full time job) will still be camping, but it'll be switched from camping a spot to a whole dungeon. Imagine people screaming "wtf are you doing this is my dungeon!" instead of "this is my spot" hehe.

I'm all for making them "behave more intelligently" though. The pack instinct is an idea, but again, they need to make it right that newbies with all 40-50 resist and 60-ish skills can survive without getting ganked by the monsters too hard, and I agree with Tina about leaving the lower end monsters alone.

And on a seperate note... the deal on reapers being hard in the old days... that's only because 2 flame strikes could kill someone with 0 magic resist waaay back then.

Oh yea I remmeber those times you didn't have ressit so long run run little rabbit from the big bad teleporting tree!! Though the advanced characters back then handle them like they are now. The players with low gold and equipment are still running like rabbits from them to this day. Hell my miner makes a full sprint away from them even If I have to drop my ore.

Either way true gold is not made from monster gold drops these days it's made from other players who have amazed fortunes by selling them what they want. The newer-returning players will need to make the gold from spawn though.

 

[StifledArgument]

The problem with this is... once you get better at UO again, you'll think the monsters are too easy. No offense intended, but being a newb isn't a very good excuse to leaving creatures weak. Being a newb only lasts so long. (substitute "newb" for "unskilled" if you prefer)

Not a newb or even unskilled, just returning, but thanks for your wonderful insights into me, if you could PM me the lottery numbers, that would be great too.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Not a newb or even unskilled, just returning, but thanks for your wonderful insights into me, if you could PM me the lottery numbers, that would be great too.

When i said "no offense" i actually did mean that. But if you can't kill a Lady of the Snow or a Lich Lord, you're unskilled as a warrior. And my point remains that we shouldn't keep monsters weak for the sake of the people who are new or returning and still need to get reoriented to how things work. Being unskilled typically doesn't last long, and once you get reoriented, you'll realize that they're rather weak.

(granted Lich Lords aren't the best example because they can still be deadly in groups)

 

[Tina Small]

And my point remains that we shouldn't keep monsters weak for the sake of the people who are new or returning and still need to get reoriented to how things work. Being unskilled typically doesn't last long, and once you get reoriented, you'll realize that they're rather weak.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but don't you need to have SOME monsters left in the game that you can train on? Or are you suggesting that we all train on golems and the stuff that hangs out around Haven? All the rest of the lands need stuff pumped up to uber extremes just to satisfy everyone who already has uber gear and uber skills?

Honestly, why would someone new and totally clueless about UO stick around if Haven and golems are all that they have left to do? Why wouldn't you want to leave some low level stuff scattered throughout all the lands to get them out and exploring? And what about the role players who don't want to use anything that they didn't craft themselves and don't use insurance? How long will they stick around if all of a sudden everything in the game is so maxed out that you can't kill it unless you're Mr. or Ms. Money Bags in Uber Elite Gear??

And trust me not everyone who starts out new immediately joins a large and well-funded guild with hovering trainers and people doling out artifact-quality suits at the drop of a hat. Some people are leery of joining guilds and some also like to figure out stuff on their own, no matter how long it takes them. After all, UO doesn't really have an "end game" and maybe they really want to just take everything slowly and enjoy the process instead of turning their play time into a big race to get to "the finish line," whatever that really means.

And what happens if all of a sudden stuff starts taking too long to kill? Next time there's a ToT type of event, everyone would be crying they can't kill stuff fast enough to get all the drops they want. All those necros running around cutting wide swaths of death and destruction in their path would suddenly feel like they'd run into a brick wall.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but don't you need to have SOME monsters left in the game that you can train on? Or are you suggesting that we all train on golems and the stuff that hangs out around Haven? All the rest of the lands need stuff pumped up to uber extremes just to satisfy everyone who already has uber gear and uber skills?

Did I say that we should sky-rocket the power of all monsters so that even a lowly mongbat could crush a well-trained warrior? No, I didn't. I didn't even imply that. Heck, I didn't even come close to almost implying that, so quit reading what I didn't write.

But there *is* something wrong if it's possible to farm dragons while taking a nap.

A percentage boost to power would be a decent way of buffing monsters so that the tough ones get a lot tougher, and the weak monsters only get a bit tougher.

Alternatively they could just make certain overpowered PvM player abilities weaker, such as Enemy of One, or Wraith and Vampire Form, or reduce the power of certain tamer pets, etc. etc.

Or, I suggested they could give more monsters pack instinct and actual AI to fight in groups.

And what happens if all of a sudden stuff starts taking too long to kill? Next time there's a ToT type of event, everyone would be crying they can't kill stuff fast enough to get all the drops they want. All those necros running around cutting wide swaths of death and destruction in their path would suddenly feel like they'd run into a brick wall.

How's that a bad thing?

 

[Tina Small]

Maybe it would help if you would specify WHICH monsters you think shouldn't remain weak for the sake of new or returning players. The FoF Q&A specifically mentions gargoyes and reapers. Stifled Argument mentioned Lady of the Snow and Lich Lords and you said she was unskilled as a warrior if she couldn't kill those.

Which monsters did you have in mind when you said, "And my point remains that we shouldn't keep monsters weak for the sake of the people who are new or returning and still need to get reoriented to how things work. Being unskilled typically doesn't last long, and once you get reoriented, you'll realize that they're rather weak." ??

I would assume eliminating a lot of the weaker stuff would also make it harder for someone to train up a skill like bushido where you may reach a point that you use Momentum Strike to get gains. You may be looking for crowds of lower to mid-level stuff specifically to use that move and wouldn't last long using it against crowds of really difficult stuff.

I guess the people who play necro mages will have to reply on whether or not they would like the idea of losing lots of the low to mid-level stuff that they can quickly damage and kill by withering. I never use that kind of character.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Maybe it would help if you would specify WHICH monsters you think shouldn't remain weak for the sake of new or returning players. The FoF Q&A specifically mentions gargoyes and reapers. Stifled Argument mentioned Lady of the Snow and Lich Lords and you said she was unskilled as a warrior if she couldn't kill those.

Which monsters did you have in mind when you said, "And my point remains that we shouldn't keep monsters weak for the sake of the people who are new or returning and still need to get reoriented to how things work. Being unskilled typically doesn't last long, and once you get reoriented, you'll realize that they're rather weak." ??

I would assume eliminating a lot of the weaker stuff would also make it harder for someone to train up a skill like bushido where you may reach a point that you use Momentum Strike to get gains. You may be looking for crowds of lower to mid-level stuff specifically to use that move and wouldn't last long using it against crowds of really difficult stuff.

I guess the people who play necro mages will have to reply on whether or not they would like the idea of losing lots of the low to mid-level stuff that they can quickly damage and kill by withering. I never use that kind of character.

Your right, I was unclear. I was calling all the monsters weak. There are very few tough monsters anymore, but the ones that need the boost most of all are monsters that were intended to be challenging but no longer are, such as lich lords, and dragons, and orc brutes.

The weakest monster should still stay weak, but they should be boosted a bit too. Orcs shouldn't suddenly turn into Titans, but they could use a bit of a health and damage boost.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Tina, I generally respect your opinion and its usually helpful, So don't take this wrong if it does not sound right. Are you just trying to fight with miner because you "insulted" someone? Or are you making a case against buffing the monsters?

As I have made the argument before, I can not say about truly new players to UO in our current system, But as a player who never joins a guild and always starts from scratch I can say everything is VERY easy at low levels of the game unless you are challenging things that are beyond your skill level, For example having 40 skill and fighting an earth ele is not the way to go, but fighting in the Graveyard is so easy you could go afk for a few minutes and not have to worry (prolly a bit of an exaggeration but still very easy). This thread was suppose to discuss balance. Sure mongbats should still be easy as pie, but balrons should take more than one player to kill. Dragons should be feared and Ancient Wyrms should not be messed with. Do you all not remember when these monsters where in fact a challenge and fun to fight? PvM as it is currently is very drag, while I still do it and enjoy when I do it is still drag heh. AoS diminished monsters power, and the decline continued each year after. Each new skill, Item, Formula All to present players with greater power. I think there should be limits on being able to solo things, Sure if you want to play solo you should be able to. But not EVERY aspect of the game then, Some things should promote community and playing with others. I remember when champs where harder and not so soloable, anyone else?

The system needs "Balancing" not so much just Buff every monster into Super beings, But As I mentioned Balrons, Ancient Wyrms, Even champs, should not be a one person job. I am sure there are other monsters out there that should receive a good buffing, and maybe some that should be toned down (I am going to point to those crystal hydra's again because I can not think of anything else that has that kind of power) Increasing loot on monsters that would be no longer killable by one person would also be acceptable. Randomizing the spawn a bit so endless farming does not happen, Smarter AI, Pack instinct. There has been a lot of good ideas in this thread for how to do it.

As for necros I play a necro, and I would not be at all disappointed if they made everything stronger, People would complain but you know what get over it the game should not be as easy as it is you are already damaging 10+ monsters at a time so what if someone else is able to get one hit in, or if it takes longer to kill, it would take EVERYONE longer to kill you can not just say necros would be affected it would be an across the board difficulty upgrade and that would be balanced and equal.

maybe give some of the more farmed monsters new specials, Like something that prevents leeches from working when its activated. So many ideas that could make the game more of a challenge and less farmed

 

[UOKaiser]

Tina, I generally respect your opinion and its usually helpful, So don't take this wrong if it does not sound right. Are you just trying to fight with miner because you "insulted" someone? Or are you making a case against buffing the monsters?

As I have made the argument before, I can not say about truly new players to UO in our current system, But as a player who never joins a guild and always starts from scratch I can say everything is VERY easy at low levels of the game unless you are challenging things that are beyond your skill level, For example having 40 skill and fighting an earth ele is not the way to go, but fighting in the Graveyard is so easy you could go afk for a few minutes and not have to worry (prolly a bit of an exaggeration but still very easy). This thread was suppose to discuss balance. Sure mongbats should still be easy as pie, but balrons should take more than one player to kill. Dragons should be feared and Ancient Wyrms should not be messed with. Do you all not remember when these monsters where in fact a challenge and fun to fight? PvM as it is currently is very drag, while I still do it and enjoy when I do it is still drag heh. AoS diminished monsters power, and the decline continued each year after. Each new skill, Item, Formula All to present players with greater power. I think there should be limits on being able to solo things, Sure if you want to play solo you should be able to. But not EVERY aspect of the game then, Some things should promote community and playing with others. I remember when champs where harder and not so soloable, anyone else?

The system needs "Balancing" not so much just Buff every monster into Super beings, But As I mentioned Balrons, Ancient Wyrms, Even champs, should not be a one person job. I am sure there are other monsters out there that should receive a good buffing, and maybe some that should be toned down (I am going to point to those crystal hydra's again because I can not think of anything else that has that kind of power) Increasing loot on monsters that would be no longer killable by one person would also be acceptable. Randomizing the spawn a bit so endless farming does not happen, Smarter AI, Pack instinct. There has been a lot of good ideas in this thread for how to do it.

As for necros I play a necro, and I would not be at all disappointed if they made everything stronger, People would complain but you know what get over it the game should not be as easy as it is you are already damaging 10+ monsters at a time so what if someone else is able to get one hit in, or if it takes longer to kill, it would take EVERYONE longer to kill you can not just say necros would be affected it would be an across the board difficulty upgrade and that would be balanced and equal.

maybe give some of the more farmed monsters new specials, Like something that prevents leeches from working when its activated. So many ideas that could make the game more of a challenge and less farmed

The thing is we have much more powerful monsters to deal with. Why fight a even more buffed up ancient wyrm. They Buffed them up before and look at it now nobody even bothers with them cause there not farmible barely anybody bothers with lvl5 maps. The only reason lvl 6 maps are even done is for chance of a artie. Balrons when is the last time you saw them camped? Players and I mean mostly all players will migrate to the least powerful most reward type creature all others are novelty and unused like ishnear became after loot did not matter from blood elementals and other such creatures.

It's just how it is. Buff creatures more and players will migrate to the easiest highest reward of those creatures. This game is a farming game. Can anybody be happy logging in once a day getting a group together within 5 hours and then go hunt 1 balron then call it a day? Spread the balron loot between 5 vet players lol.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

It's just how it is. Buff creatures more and players will migrate to the easiest highest reward of those creatures. This game is a farming game. Can anybody be happy logging in once a day getting a group together within 5 hours and then go hunt 1 balron then call it a day? Spread the balron loot between 5 vet players lol.

Except what I propose is to stop farming, people wont farm low loot low level monsters so they will have no choice but to farm the profitable harder to kill monsters.

Also I can get a group of 5 together with in an instant any time of day any week, not that hard, also I proposed to up the loot on the monsters. If they did it right they could make monsters need more than 1 player and adjust loot based on the number of players that participate, perhaps adjust the monster difficulty as well.

Your argument that its a farming game is not viable as the point is to relieving farming. Even if people migrate to low level low loot spawn, that would mean the amount they make is considerably less than 2 players fighting high level spawns.

They could also fix tmaps but since that was not the topic of discussion here I wont point out the many things they could do with that as well. Maybe you do not understand because you are a farmer and want to keep it the same? Maybe you do not read everything said. Either way it does not matter, Balancing the monsters and relieving the farming situation is what I am proposing, as well as others here, Improved AI, a more dynamic spawn those two alone would completely get rid of farming. The idea of incorporating the champ spawn system into normal spawn is the best farming deterrent I can think of, either increase the spawn rate when farmed for to long or change the monster type, or any number of dynamic spawning ideas.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Some more ideas:

Legacy monsters could get special moves.

Earth (and Ore) Elementals, Cyclops, Ettins, Trolls, Molochs, Chaos Daemons, Ogres, Ogre Lords, and Orc Brutes (pretty much all the giants) could get Crushing Blow.

Monsters that use weapons could use the weapon's special abilities. i.e. War mace and short spear lizardmen use their weapon abilities, Ophidian warriors use bardiche abilities, orc captains use their axe's abilities, etc. etc.
Of course the monsters with special abilities would have to be tweaked a bit... you don't want 20 ratman archers in the vermin spawn spamming paralyze blow.


Alligators and all the types of wolves could get a bleed attack.

Ice monsters could get a small chance to hit harm or cold area.
Fire monsters could get a small chance to hit fireball or fire area.
Same for lightning monsters, though i can only think of the air eles, and Rai-jus.

Blood Elementals could get life leech.

Doppelgangers could act like changelings

Balrons and Ancient Liches could cast summon Daemon, Blade Spirit or any of the Elemental summons (give the hit dispel weapon property a purpose)

Molochs and Chaos Daemons could get the HP regen that Horrific Beast Form gives.

Ratmen and Lizardmen could have a chance to inflict a random level of poison (they cant be that clean, and rats can have rabies)

 

[UOKaiser]

Except what I propose is to stop farming, people wont farm low loot low level monsters so they will have no choice but to farm the profitable harder to kill monsters.

Also I can get a group of 5 together with in an instant any time of day any week, not that hard, also I proposed to up the loot on the monsters. If they did it right they could make monsters need more than 1 player and adjust loot based on the number of players that participate, perhaps adjust the monster difficulty as well.

Your argument that its a farming game is not viable as the point is to relieving farming. Even if people migrate to low level low loot spawn, that would mean the amount they make is considerably less than 2 players fighting high level spawns.

They could also fix tmaps but since that was not the topic of discussion here I wont point out the many things they could do with that as well. Maybe you do not understand because you are a farmer and want to keep it the same? Maybe you do not read everything said. Either way it does not matter, Balancing the monsters and relieving the farming situation is what I am proposing, as well as others here, Improved AI, a more dynamic spawn those two alone would completely get rid of farming. The idea of incorporating the champ spawn system into normal spawn is the best farming deterrent I can think of, either increase the spawn rate when farmed for to long or change the monster type, or any number of dynamic spawning ideas.

Many can't get a group together so quick I sure can't. In reality everyone is a farmer. Do you just kill 1 monster and then youre done for the day? Once you kill more than 1 of the same monster in a combat session you just farmed it. Are you proposing 5x above peerless level loot on ancient wyrm,balron,etc so that the player will have a hard time with the monster needing a group but only need to do one of them for his loot satisfaction is reached?

In order for a player to enjoy fighting a spawn similar to champ spawn the loot has to be worth it. Im sure I don't need to remind anybody about ishnear champ spawns before SOT's and replicas since they first were introduced.

Just have to realize once you go to a spot and kill more than 1 monster you are farming in for loot because you are fighting against the RNG. If every monster had the same type of loot weapon armor etc for each one and you always know exactly what you gonna get then all you do is go to 1 wyrm grab that loot that you already know and head to deamon grab that loot that you need and that's it. Unless you want multiple of the same would be the only reason to kill more than 1. The RNG is incorporated in everything except collections in UO.
Collections in UO you know exactly what you get when you turn in exactly how many items needed you can calculate it to it's last digit. Then calculate the time it will take. Completly predictable no RNG involved. If that was also random then it be more like monster loot.
Bods is interesting as you know your exact reward but you do not know when you receive the exact item to fill to receive it so it's a mix between the RNG and static.
The only other thing I can think about that's static is gold but no one needs to farm gold anymore exept players that are broke. What is gold selling for these days 30cents a mil or something. It's a waste people could unattend farm on 20 accounts 24/7 for just gold and they won't even be able to break even.

 

[Whinemaker]

...Also I can get a group of 5 together with in an instant any time of day any week...

Not my case. Might want to find a compromise on this.
Most of the people I know I can trust quit a long time ago, and 90% those who are still playing either live in a different time zone or don't play on my "main" shard. And I don't know, I just have problem making new friends online (but then I guess it's my problem for stereotyping all the net users and gamers).

I wouldn't mind them increasing the difficulty of certain monsters to the point that it requires group effort to tackle, but I'd rather see that limited to the boss-level mobs. Remember, not everyone's looking for a challenge when out hunting all the time.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Many can't get a group together so quick I sure can't. In reality everyone is a farmer. Do you just kill 1 monster and then youre done for the day? Once you kill more than 1 of the same monster in a combat session you just farmed it. Are you proposing 5x above peerless level loot on ancient wyrm,balron,etc so that the player will have a hard time with the monster needing a group but only need to do one of them for his loot satisfaction is reached?

I would answer "yes" to your question except it is impossible to say yes to it, I do champ spawns and peerlesses and doom if I want to pvm. Nothing else, Nothing else is worth the time as it is practically an afk grind fighting anything else in the game. I wouldn't even consider it under the current situations, I prefer Challenges to boredom, I do not play a game to be bored I do it to be entertained. There is no end to the game, So no one to compete with.

Gold sells for enough that you could make enough money to pay for more than one account just from playing one account. Especially if they are doing it afk 24/7.

When I said incorporating the Champ spawn system into normal spawn what I meant was the idea that something else would spawn after x amount of time or Kills. Or more would spawn after the same trigger. You could also have things spawn based on number of people in the area, while that would not really cut down on farming to much it would present a challenge for those who are not "solo MULTIPLAYER players" As I said "farming" is not a good basis for an argument of not balancing the monsters, or making the game more of a well, game? Never mind the fact it is an endless game meaning more things to do makes it more entertaining, if things were not predictable it would make things more interesting and thus more entertaining. As I stated before I do not know where the "balance" is as far as how strong monsters should be, how they should act/respond and everything else as well as how much loot they get. But I do present a solution to the proposed "problem" the Devs can figure out the rest on their own, they are more knowledgeable about how the game currently works than I am, sorry I do not develop for EA mythic so I can not know these things.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Not my case. Might want to find a compromise on this.
Most of the people I know I can trust quit a long time ago, and 90% those who are still playing either live in a different time zone or don't play on my "main" shard. And I don't know, I just have problem making new friends online (but then I guess it's my problem for stereotyping all the net users and gamers).

I wouldn't mind them increasing the difficulty of certain monsters to the point that it requires group effort to tackle, but I'd rather see that limited to the boss-level mobs. Remember, not everyone's looking for a challenge when out hunting all the time.

Well I do not mean for everything to be that hard, but the monsters I said (Balrons Ancient wyrms and champ bosses) I think were good examples of monsters that should take a group, and I agree with you not everyone can get a group together, and not everyone is trusting/trustworthy. Compromise is what this whole thread is about, "balance", so I am all for opinions on what would be good or bad as far as this is concerned.

And yes stereotyping is a bad thing =p, unfortunately it is usually right tho >.>

 

[StifledArgument]

No offense, but why not just buff the monsters in the expansion so those of you who are l337 (which I hate using the term, but the ferocity you are all fighting for this and the tone used seems to fit your ilk) have a challenge? Instead of making the things those of us returning or new don't get insta ganked by.

Or adding new monsters to some of the dungeons in the upper end areas.

Not everyone plays on a populated server, not everyone plays the same hours that the majority do, not everyone is uber, not everyone has a friends list a mile long, so getting a group is not going to happen without me modifying my lifestyle to play a game. I gave up modifying my life for a game a long time ago and that is why I came back to UO, not to be beholden to a group....

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

No offense, but why not just buff the monsters in the expansion so those of you who are l337 (which I hate using the term, but the ferocity you are all fighting for this and the tone used seems to fit your ilk) have a challenge? Instead of making the things those of us returning or new don't get insta ganked by.

Or adding new monsters to some of the dungeons in the upper end areas.

Not everyone plays on a populated server, not everyone plays the same hours that the majority do, not everyone is uber, not everyone has a friends list a mile long, so getting a group is not going to happen without me modifying my lifestyle to play a game. I gave up modifying my life for a game a long time ago and that is why I came back to UO, not to be beholden to a group....

*sighs* if you read all the posts you would know it is about balance, in my posts specifically I even went so far as to name creatures that I thought deserve a group. I play on a low population shard, I do not play the same hours as the "majority" either, and I have 12 friends maybe? could prolly say 10 since 2 of them are not playing currently tho one will most likely be back for SA.
I do not think anyone has suggested new/returning players should get "insta ganked" Almost completely sure everyone has agreed the low end monsters should be left alone for the new players, Even more dynamic spawn does not mean it has to be over powerful when the dynamic takes place (at least on most of the spawn). It is preferable to me that they "rebalance" the game, it is just how they do it that should be discussed. There could be two arguments made for doing it, Stopping the current farming(this would happen with a more dynamic spawn) and two making the entire game a bit more worthy to play. The opposing arguments are not really stable, one is "what about the poor noobs" they wouldn't know any better, and aside from that no one wants to make things so new chars can not fight them. Of course the farmers argument is that they wouldn't be able to farm (this can be presented in alot of ways) and the obvious rebuttal for that one. And of course the argument that players will just migrate to easier more profitable spawn, This one while most valid is also negated by the fact that everything would be balanced and thus there would be nothing "easier and more profitable" you would have easier or you would have profitable, that's what balance is. Take your pick of counter arguments as I have presented the answer to all of them.

 

[StifledArgument]

Yes, you have presented arguments that you feel support your point, however, as a person who doesn't get to play much I will state if things are so "dynamic" that I don't get to kill but 4 creatures in the space of 45 minutes, I won't bother playing anymore. I have maybe an hour or 2 normally to play, during the day. I am not going to have to worry about even medium end creatures, such as a cyclopean warrior whacking my characters.

I think the devs with their limited resources should focus on bugs, the new UI, the new content, and scripters/dupers. Your argument that making everything dynamic would stop scripters/afkers has the weakest point because it is filled with assumption about who is doing it and what they are capable of handling while afk/scripting.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Yes, you have presented arguments that you feel support your point, however, as a person who doesn't get to play much I will state if things are so "dynamic" that I don't get to kill but 4 creatures in the space of 45 minutes, I won't bother playing anymore. I have maybe an hour or 2 normally to play, during the day. I am not going to have to worry about even medium end creatures, such as a cyclopean warrior whacking my characters.

I think the devs with their limited resources should focus on bugs, the new UI, the new content, and scripters/dupers. Your argument that making everything dynamic would stop scripters/afkers has the weakest point because it is filled with assumption about who is doing it and what they are capable of handling while afk/scripting.

No holes really, They would not script if they are not going to gain x amount of rewards. Also I know for a fact an afk char can not compete with an attended player, so anything an attended player has issues handling would not be possible for a scripter, simple logic applies here no assuming needed.
And again, why would you get whacked by a Cyclopean warrior? As stated none of the lower end monsters would be affected by this? and Dynamic does not mean it has to bump up to be monsters a player that would be hunting in that area would not be able to fight.

Script Farming is done is specific locations because the spawn always spawns in a small area and thus is easy to stand still and fight, no worries about being to many or about them not spawning there no more, Higher end monsters that are farmed could be dynamically changed out with something an afker could not handle, it is pretty simple logic. Anything you would be fighting (considering you are worried about a Cyclopean warrior) would not be farmed as it is not profitable to farm such things, thus the Dynamics of an area such as that would be to change out lizardmen for ratmen for any other = type spawn. Where as in places such as painted caves, Make Lurg wander around more, Or perhaps after an exaggerated amount of Trogs are killed they call Lurg from the back of the cave and he comes to the front to aid them, an active player could most likely handle this or they could move to another location, such as Titan valley, or Despise to fight ogres and such. My argument is not based on me knowing HOW to do this, it is based on the need for a system that is different than the one we currently have. I propose an alternative to allowing people to farm things while also keeping balance with in the game, You continue to assume that I want to kill low level players, and I will continue to explain how my proposal (along with what I believe to be everyone else's as well) has little to no impact on New or Returning players, since what they fight would only be dynamic in changing the type of monsters, not the difficulty of the monsters, since farming monsters of that level would not benefit a scripter (plus finding an area to farm them consistently might be a problem).

Assuming my theory has Holes in it how about proposing a solution.

 

[FrejaSP]

Do you think that the older monsters and creatures should be buffed up to make them more challenging? We'd like to hear why or why not.

-Wilki

As it is now, not many do hunt in old Britainnia, it really need to be buffed, both more challenging and with better loot.

When UO was young, there was something to hunt for all levels, now a few days old char can hunt almost all on overland.

I remember having more kinds of spawn in the forest east of brit, then gazers, orc spawns moved away, think some crafters complained. We also lost the archer from the brigand spawns.

Sure the overland should not be impossible for lumbers and miners to use but we do need some spots with better spawn, like the liches at yew.

The forest between Britain and Cove and the forest between Cove and Vesper could need 2-3 spawns each, bounded to special spot.
I'm sure that count for other forests too

I would like to see:
a orc spawn (including some of the fun orcs like the bomber)
A gazer spawn (normal and greater)
More water elements and other water spawn along the coast
A drake or Wyvern spawn
A ratman spawn (inc archers and mages)
A mongbat spawn (normal and greater)

Also the animals need a tweak

Make bulls red and aggressive, both cows and bulls are to easy to kill even for a newbie
Add dire wolves back to the forest
Make grizzly and polar bears stronger and aggressive.

I wish to see players hunt old land and old dungeons again.

 

[StifledArgument]

Assuming my theory has Holes in it how about proposing a solution.

The problem is, I don't see the need for this to happen in the first place, so how do I propose a solution to something I don't agree with, without it seeming incredibly one sided as your arguments have been.

I see a need to stop afkers and scripters, as a matter of fact it should be a top priority. I do not see rebalancing creatures as a solution. Integrated cheating tools and perhaps a motivational pay structure for GM's who check out scripters and afkers in a timely fashion and address the people who pollute the game would be better.

All the people who have been playing straight through since inception without interruption to their game play(such as having real life issues or playing another game) who can take on anything without batting an eye are the problem. You think playing a game constantly and modifying your templates to be the latest and greatest and gear and gold fall out of the sky. Your assumptions are incorrect. This may hold true for you, but not for everyone. I have been trying to convince my friends and family to come to this game or come back. Now, why bother, if this goes through I won't even be here and I certainly won't drag them to a game catering to people with the attitude of, "I am too uber, make the game challenging for me again."

So, I have no proposed solution because the depth of what would need to be done(how do you make the call about what gets buffed? What is high end for one person isn't for another), and the proposals being made are radical, assumptive, and elitist.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

I like the idea of scaled random encounters in Britannia.

For example (but the possibilities are endless), if you are traveling down a main road between towns you may encounter a randomly spawned bandit who does not immediately attack but instead will try to demand a toll. If the player chooses to pay the toll (drop the gold on the bandit) then they can pass by unharmed. If the player ignores the demand for gold or attacks the bandit then an appropriate spawn is summoned based on the type of encounter, the players total combat skills, valor, etc.

The same idea could be used in many scenarios with many creature types. Troll Bridges; Evil Mages; Rampaging Dragons; etc. New quests could even be involved. But if the encounters are scaled then it would be a challenge for any level of character. Treasure could include something like strongbox rewards. But I'm not sure what could be used as a real incentive to wander the original UO lands in the first place.

Of course, this would take effort in scripting such encounters. I believe it's totally doable, but I'm not certain of how worthwhile it would be.

 

[Tina Small]

Tina, I generally respect your opinion and its usually helpful, So don't take this wrong if it does not sound right. Are you just trying to fight with miner because you "insulted" someone? Or are you making a case against buffing the monsters?

Just thinking about all my crafter chars spread out hither and yon that I'm sure are not all that different from the crafter characters of many others who start out in UO or come back to UO. They start out with 40 magery, they're generally broke and running around forever in crummy gear, and my main focus with them is to get their crafting skills up to speed. They'll never have a lot of room in their templates for magery and I don't intend for them to be mages or warriors. And because of the skills they're working on, it takes FOREVER and a day for their intelligence (and often their strength) to get to a decent level. They're very dumb and weak characters. (Note: I put mining and lumberjacking on a separate character that ends up with very decent magery, musicianship and peacemaking.)

But where do they live?

In Fel in the middle of a bunch of spawn like brigands, lizardmen, orcs, savages, reapers, headless, ogres, trolls, plague beasts, acid eles, etc. All the stuff that people want to buff.

Fine. Buff the heck out of them. Then be prepared to listen to people complaining that their crafters are having a tough time surviving and are losing stuff.

I don't carry stuff in my crafter's beetles because I don't trust the pet logout system. So if any of my crafters died, at most I'd lose some ingots, boards, leather, cloth, tools, and piddly amounts of gold.

However, what I would lose is the opportunity to slowly work up their magery and raise their intelligence and strength by killing the stuff that spawns around the houses or going out and killing cows and bulls for leather. They'd end up being stupid and weak even longer than they are now because I sure wouldn't take them out to kill buffed stuff they can barely kill now before running out of mana. They'd be sitting ducks while waiting for their mana to regen and couldn't inviz themselves with a spell because their magery is too low.

Some of you may sit here and laugh at all this. However, I don't really care. I start out these characters on new shards and try to make them self-supporting. I usually seed them with 10,000 gold each and any gold they get after that is from what they make, sell, or kill themselves. Stupid, eh? I suppose, but it's a goal I made for myself to keep the process of making crafters on the shards my guild plays on just a wee bit more interesting. Working up crafting skills is tedious enough as it is. I have to add in a bit of spice here and there by actually having them go out and kill stuff they can barely handle and feel good when they manage to pull it off.

I'm really not interested in having crafters running around in uber gear and that I had to sit for days with to work up their magery to the 70-90 range. Just not going to play the game that way. Skills go up together as the character ages. It's that plain and simple.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I see a need to stop afkers and scripters, as a matter of fact it should be a top priority. I do not see rebalancing creatures as a solution. Integrated cheating tools and perhaps a motivational pay structure for GM's who check out scripters and afkers in a timely fashion and address the people who pollute the game would be better.

You did not read all of my posts, or even some of them (I know I only quoted a little bit of your statement I will explain in a moment).

GMs can not actively patrol the servers, for w/e reason (unless something has recently changed) this is EA's policy. They can only react to people paging.

I had to quit playing due to financial situations for awhile, I came back to nothing. quite literally save for my naked chars. Been back playing for a little bit now, less than 2 years is all I can say as far as length of time. Still find everything completely easy.

Also recently started a char on a different shard than the one I normally play, no char transfers just new char from scratch, again everything is completely easy. I am not looking at this from an aspect of completely decked out chars, even the low level spawn is to easy for totally new chars (while I respect the difference between new players vs returning players I will not try to state that I know it is easy for new players only that as a returning player, it is easy)

While I still feel making the spawn more dynamic would help to ease the current crisis, does not make me unopen to other ideas. I have said this thread is about compromise, balance. Most have either agreed or disagreed, Offered no compromise or balance to the situation. I do not feel what I proposed would be detrimental to new players, if you read everything I wrote I only offer a different experience for younger players, a new experience for older players, a harder experience for those who wish to seek it, and a solution for farming specific creatures on end, All of these concepts would have to be implemented correctly obviously to achieve "balance" but I still feel personally that the ideas presented in this thread are good bases to start from.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Just thinking about all my crafter chars spread out hither and yon that I'm sure are not all that different from the crafter characters of many others who start out in UO or come back to UO. They start out with 40 magery, they're generally broke and running around forever in crummy gear, and my main focus with them is to get their crafting skills up to speed. They'll never have a lot of room in their templates for magery and I don't intend for them to be mages or warriors. And because of the skills they're working on, it takes FOREVER and a day for their intelligence (and often their strength) to get to a decent level. They're very dumb and weak characters. (Note: I put mining and lumberjacking on a separate character that ends up with very decent magery, musicianship and peacemaking.)

O.K. so you were presenting a case for not buffing the monsters. I do not have much to offer to your situation, aside from everything I have already posted. I will just leave it with that I am only constituting a different idea for the way spawn works, I am not to sure that the things I have mentioned or supported would impact your play style at all. I have a crafter right now with 40 magery about 50 tailoring and smithing (give or take a few points I am not going to check) like 60 or so mining. And a friend has about the same (but has carpentry tinkering and lumber jacking) both on a newish shard, So I can understand this plight you make but I also do not see the proposal as bad. =\

 

[Stupid Miner]

1) Hm, new idea: Existing monsters have a chance to spawn as an upgraded version of themselves. Basically like paragons, and I think exactly how the greater dragon works. Take a certain spawn such as ettins and give the spawn a % chance to spawn an upgraded creature which, for ettins, would be cyclopses.
Perhaps 10% chance to upgrade, perhaps 5%, perhaps 20%, whatever.

Ettins ogres and trolls would upgrade to cyclopses, cyclopses to titans.
Frost trolls to Arctic Ogre Lords
Daemons to Balrons
Gargoyles to Stone Gargoyles. Stone Gargoyles to Enslaved Gargoyles to Enforcers to Destroyers.
Gazers to Elder Gazers
skeletal mages to liches to lich lords to ancient liches
ratmen to ratman mages to archers
snakes to giant snakes to silver serpents
hellcats to hellcat predators

... You get the pattern.
If an ettin had a 10% chance to upgrade into a cyclops, the cyclops would have a 10% chance to upgrade to a titan (1 in 100 chance for an ettin into a titan)

Would definitely add some variety to our current spawns, and it usually wouldn't be too over-powering (of course daemons to balrons would be tricky, but that's ok because daemons are too weak anyway)

------------------

2) Also, how about spreading the monster spawn throughout the lands? Get Tokuno creatures in Malas and Britannia and Ilshennar, and get Serpentine dragons in Tokuno, and Shadow Dragons in other places (Shadow Dragons especially, they have *one* spawn location)

------------------

3) ... and since monsters and loot go hand in hand. An easy way to make farming more enjoyable would be to make it slightly less random. Certain monsters use certain weapons, It only makes sense that the weapon that they're using would be the best weapon they own, so why not have monsters that use weapons always spawn that weapon on their corpse with a higher intensity than their normal loot?
It wouldn't have to be the exact weapon they're graphically using either, it could be the entire weapon category.
Orc choppers could spawn any style of axe.
Ratman archers could spawn any type of bow.
Meer Captains could spawn any kind of crossbow.
Meer warriors could spawn any type of one-handed sword.
Lizardmen could spawn 1 handed fencing and macing weapons.
Cyclopses could spawn any 2-handed macing weapon.
... and so forth.

So now people hunting for a certain type of weapon wouldn't have to kill a billion monsters and hope oe randomly show up: now they only would have to kill a million to get the right one.

 

[Tina Small]

O.K. so you were presenting a case for not buffing the monsters. I do not have much to offer to your situation, aside from everything I have already posted. I will just leave it with that I am only constituting a different idea for the way spawn works, I am not to sure that the things I have mentioned or supported would impact your play style at all. I have a crafter right now with 40 magery about 50 tailoring and smithing (give or take a few points I am not going to check) like 60 or so mining. And a friend has about the same (but has carpentry tinkering and lumber jacking) both on a newish shard, So I can understand this plight you make but I also do not see the proposal as bad. =\

At this point I don't know if I much care what happens. Seems that the team has decided that UO will never get many new players. As a result, they will cater more and more as time goes on to all the super-bored vet players that have kept the game afloat for oh so many years. They must figure that you will equip your friends and family if they decide to play and teach them all the best ways to advance their characters, plus play shepherd for them so they don't die so much that they lose heart and quit.

I'm about done with trying to play devil's advocate on behalf of new and returning players, or people like me that have only played for a few years and have no memory of the "good old days." All you people that know UO the best....have fun advising the devs from here on out. I've about had it in terms of trying to explain anything from my point of view. It matters not how many accounts I have, what I've paid in subscription fees, how many characters I've built from scratch. My opinion means very little because I can never claim to have played the game from Day 1.

 

[StifledArgument]

Well Tina, I am with you and I have played this game on and off since beta. I am not a bored vet player, because I try to take in all aspects of the game, not just one. I don't consider UO a race to win.

The fact is, that is why I don't sit there and formulate some massive plot to coincide with the uber folks plans, because they refuse to understand anyone else's perspective and the devs will cater to them. So, we shall see what happens, and if I do go, then you can have my BOD's

Because I sure as heck won't be coming back and will ensure I can't.

 

[ColterDC]

The Devs could make PvM in Tram more challenging today, with zero effort by simply turning the push through rules on in Tram. But my guess is all the people who are saying that PvM is to easy right now, would be back here tomorrow pancakes up a storm that they died to a group of mongbats who blocked them in a corner.

P.S.
There are a ton of great ideas posted in this thread, but I'd bet RL money that the people in charge of this game won't add any of them.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

The Devs could make PvM in Tram more challenging today, with zero effort by simply turning the push through rules on in Tram. But my guess is all the people who are saying that PvM is to easy right now, would be back here tomorrow pancakes up a storm that they died to a group of mongbats who blocked them in a corner.

P.S.
There are a ton of great ideas posted in this thread, but I'd bet RL money that the people in charge of this game won't add any of them.

Sure would make having chiv on my tamer much more useful than it already is lol

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Being that I love old school UO, I would absolutely love to see a return of over land spawns, and the days when an Orc Mage was a creature that you might actually die against...but...


We need to examine why we got to where we are so we don't make the same mistakes again.

What happened? How did we go from a dragon or a demon being something it really took 2-3 players a good long time to kill, to people farming demons while they are asleep?

Simple. Escalation.

Why did things escalate? Poor planning.

When Trammel was created, true risk was more or less eliminated from the game. When you died in what is now called Felucca, your stuff remained on your corpse, and anyone could take it. If you were PKed, you knew you were not getting any of your stuff back. This kept players from hording as much as they do now.

Then came AoS. With item insurance, this removed virtually any chance you had of losing your items. And the focus of the game shifted entirely to items.

But how do you keep players interested once they have all the items? You make more items, items that are even more powerful than the last set of items. And you have to release new monsters to make the old items less useful so that everyone will rush out to get the new items. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat...

...until you get to now. Now we have creatures in the game that were once feared, like Ice Fiends, that are nothing but walking ATM machines for scripters.

Re-balancing monsters will only work until the next set of items comes along that make them easier to kill. Then the whole thing spirals down the exact same path it already spiraled down.

Solution: Find a way to make UO go back to being more about skills and community, and less about items and possessions. Then re-balance everything and stop releasing items and skills and scrolls that escalate everything out of proportion.

Otherwise, its a temporary solution and not worth bothering with.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Being that I love old school UO, I would absolutely love to see a return of over land spawns, and the days when an Orc Mage was a creature that you might actually die against...but...

text cut for the sake of brevity​

Solution: Find a way to make UO go back to being more about skills and community, and less about items and possessions. Then re-balance everything and stop releasing items and skills and scrolls that escalate everything out of proportion.

Otherwise, its a temporary solution and not worth bothering with.

Er, Items is only half of the the reason, and it's the smaller half (that doesn't even make sense but deal with it ) in my opinion.

Overly-powerful skills is the other half.
Chivalry:
Enemy of One: you instantly do 50% more damage!
Divine Fury: Instantly regain *all* your stamina

Bushido:
Lightning strike: 50% HCI and with 120 bush and parry a 20% chance to do 100% damage ignoring resists
Perfection: Up to 100% more damage

Necromancy: Vampire form: get back 20% of your damage as health
Curse Weapon: get back 50% your damage as health
Wraith form: steal all your enemies' mana
Wither: It's like earthquake but it's twice as fast and take half the mana, and you can leech back your mana anyway.

Archery: Quick bow, High damage, just keep running away and your enemy will never hit you!

Magery: It's not actually overpowered in PvM which is rather surprising because it always used to be mages were the god-killing templates

Tamers: Yea, item escalation definitely fits here, though it's pet escalation.

I think it would go a long way to lower the damage increase cap even furthur for PvM. It would also allow for more template variety.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I think it would go a long way to lower the damage increase cap even furthur for PvM. It would also allow for more template variety.

Of course if you lower the cap then you are not really doing anything, the lower you make the cap the easier it is to attain the cap. Example would be lowering the cap to 200, and you now only need a slayer and 100 di from items and you are good to go (a simple example but still an example) granted it would make people weaker, but it would still make hitting the damage cap a lot more consistent.

Edit: Not sure if this is good or bad tho, just stating it.

Also, there I go dying again to post >.> oh well.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Being that I love old school UO, I would absolutely love to see a return of over land spawns, and the days when an Orc Mage was a creature that you might actually die against...but...


We need to examine why we got to where we are so we don't make the same mistakes again.

What happened? How did we go from a dragon or a demon being something it really took 2-3 players a good long time to kill, to people farming demons while they are asleep?

Simple. Escalation.

Why did things escalate? Poor planning.

When Trammel was created, true risk was more or less eliminated from the game. When you died in what is now called Felucca, your stuff remained on your corpse, and anyone could take it. If you were PKed, you knew you were not getting any of your stuff back. This kept players from hording as much as they do now.

Then came AoS. With item insurance, this removed virtually any chance you had of losing your items. And the focus of the game shifted entirely to items.

But how do you keep players interested once they have all the items? You make more items, items that are even more powerful than the last set of items. And you have to release new monsters to make the old items less useful so that everyone will rush out to get the new items. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat...

...until you get to now. Now we have creatures in the game that were once feared, like Ice Fiends, that are nothing but walking ATM machines for scripters.

Re-balancing monsters will only work until the next set of items comes along that make them easier to kill. Then the whole thing spirals down the exact same path it already spiraled down.

Solution: Find a way to make UO go back to being more about skills and community, and less about items and possessions. Then re-balance everything and stop releasing items and skills and scrolls that escalate everything out of proportion.

Otherwise, its a temporary solution and not worth bothering with.

Exactly, just my 2cp's but everything you said is the Hammer hitting the Nail square on the head.

The Itemization path always (UO and Everquest) degrades the Personal Skill from the Game.

Everquest has taken things, to my opinion, an absurdity. First it is level based vs skill based. That means the higher your level is vs your opponent (or vice versa) the more difficult it is for you to either be hit or to hit, regardless of all other factors.

Now zones are mostly always themed. Meaning there are monster spawns for varying Levels, some zones have a very narrow level spread some have a very large level spread.

So lets look at Everquest when it was released, top level was 50, with N number of zones, the Top Boss Mobs were low to mid 50's.

Jump to now, top level is 85 and the number of zones may easily be 5 times greater than the original release. One can create a new level 1 character and go to level 50, go through all the original zones (a bad choice ...) and NEVER SEE ANYONE. You can have all these (and many more zones) to your exclusive use.

You then get to a point were you simply MUST ITEMIZE or even the simplest PEER LEVEL things will kick your butt and you can do nothing about it.

So it got into a pattern of Itemize degrades the Mobs, Official Expansion or a Free Expansion raises the Mob level and degrades the Character level. Rinse and Repeat for ever a never ending cycle.

UO does not need to repeat the Everquest model to understand the end effect, which is as you say, always a temporary fix.

IF UO wants to maintain its uniqueness then the team should focus on building on what makes UO Unique. It use to be community and you get out there with your Rusty Sword or if your Lucky a Viking Sword, Katana etc and you kill that Mob ... If you know how to, as in personal skill.

They should make Felluca Rough and tumble, anything goes, you die there and your first thought should not be about going back to your corpse to get your ITEMS as you know they probably wont be there and even if there are NO PLAYERS you may need to kill a LOT of monsters to get your stuff back because they looted it.

They can leave Trammel alone for the people that truly do like that Rule Set. They are extremely low maintenance people anyway.

Stick the Police Force in Felluca and cut back on if not totally eliminate the hacks, the cheats, the griefers etc.

OR they can go down the path of escalating Items then Mobs then Items until Hell Freeze's Over.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

1) Hm, new idea: Existing monsters have a chance to spawn as an upgraded version of themselves. Basically like paragons, and I think exactly how the greater dragon works. Take a certain spawn such as ettins and give the spawn a % chance to spawn an upgraded creature which, for ettins, would be cyclopses.
Perhaps 10% chance to upgrade, perhaps 5%, perhaps 20%, whatever.

Ettins ogres and trolls would upgrade to cyclopses, cyclopses to titans.
Frost trolls to Arctic Ogre Lords
Daemons to Balrons
Gargoyles to Stone Gargoyles. Stone Gargoyles to Enslaved Gargoyles to Enforcers to Destroyers.
Gazers to Elder Gazers
skeletal mages to liches to lich lords to ancient liches
ratmen to ratman mages to archers
snakes to giant snakes to silver serpents
hellcats to hellcat predators

... You get the pattern.
....

In Everquest the team, as an aniversay event, enable a Fabled Version of Named Mobs, with upgraded abilities and loot.

It is of course always a fun thing and creates panic when a Fabled shows up at the worst possible time

I am not a fan of the Paragon, mostly the increase in movement speed tends to be unbalanced, the spell casting speed tends to be unbalancing, the difficulties to do things to it become unbalancing.

Such that when an individual encounters one (or a small group) it may very well turn into a die baby die, with no real chance to escape.

Perhaps if they did as you suggest and up any given mob by a percentage (that does not specifically cast the mob as a Raid Only Mob or perhaps as UO may call it a Champion SPawn/Peerless Boss Mob) and labeled it as a "Greater Mob" or a "Fabled Mob", scale the loot up accordingly (but all should know I am anti loot anyway as it just stokes the fires of a runaway ... virtual economy), it would be a good thing. The Mob should NOT be increased to the extent that a Solo or small group could not, with all due GOOD TACTICS be able to defeat it.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

..
When UO was young, there was something to hunt for all levels, now a few days old char can hunt almost all on overland.
..

I disagree with this statement.

If it were reworded to be:

"now a few days old char, fully tweaked out in the most UBER GEAR can hunt almost all on overland"

Well what happens when the New Character is NOT tweaked but is using oh say normal Cloth, normal Leather, normal mace, normal sword etc? Will that character be able to go one hit an Ogre Lord to Death? No they are going to have pretty much the same difficulty as anyone else did when UO was new.

If the response to the above is "WTF, who is moron enough to NOT have the MOST UBER GEAR AVAILABLE', know my response to be this, then you are taking away some players DESIRED/PREFERRED play style. Not every one sees the goal, the point of UO to be the Most Uber thing UO has ever seen, able to leap tall building, be faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a Locomotive etc.

 

[Stupid Miner]

"now a few days old char, fully tweaked out in the most UBER GEAR can hunt almost all on overland"

Freja plays Siege. She definitely didn't mean that.

...and you can easily kill a dragon with a character with 80 or less in every skill
all you need is 60-70 resist armor (can be gotten for about 50k if you know how to shop) and a dragon slayer with a decent swing speed. Heck, it could probably done with 50-60 resists. Though I've only tested this in a 60-70 suit.