If there is ANYTHING in PvP that needs an immediate fix

[ATLPvPer]

It is the 2 and a half screen distance that a pet can cast a spell. It is totally out of control that a dreadmare/GD's fireball can hit me after I've crossed at least 2 screens from it. In no way is this fair to any player. Of all the problems with tamers in PvP, this is one that both tamers and other players can agree is unbalanced and has no place in PvP.

Can we please get a fix? If it is that a big issue with the potential abuse of players running off screen in PvM, can there be a fix implemented where, once tamed, when the monster loses stats/skills, it also loses its ability to cast across multiple screens?

I know this has been brought up, but it has not been addressed and it is an immediate concern to all and any PvPers. Completely unbalanced. So few bugs are fixed for PvPers, and this is one I think calls for immediate fix and would not break the back of coders.

Thanks.

 

[Sweeney]

I've been able to hide 1-2 screens away for incoming fireballs without being revealed while still being hit. Granted I'm a thief not a pker but it's only a nuisance to me, not a major pvp issue.

 

[archite666]

Yes... being hit for 60 points as i'm extremly far away is rediculous.

Most times the tamer can't even find my body to loot it, thats how far I get.

 

[Larry]

Make single tile dexxers worth playing.

There's no reason to not play an archer.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Disarm bleed evasion
There's lot of things archers can't do.

 

[Lyconis]

Why not tack on the ability for faction pets to go into stat loss for 20 minutes if they die.
and
If you die you have to wait 5 minutes before you can log out and your pet logs out with you. Figure if ya kill a tamer it'd be nice to kill there pet and get rid of .1 skill on em and or stat the pet. I highly doubt the majority of logouts auto pet stabling are done because of connection problems. ooh that'd upset a lot of dial up tamers. Make it so it only happens if you die from another player, are in stat, or in Felucca so the bluebies don't flame me.

 

[Heartseeker]

So, another tamer bashing thread.

Well at least you were sneaky in the title.

 

[Mistura]

Dreadmares are funny. Loving the fact you can actually arm a fireball and have it ready to fire when you like...lol

Gimp isn't the word.

 

[SevenFaith]

The problem is that they do not have a 'range check' as the spell is cast.

When the pet is 'preparing' the spell, it has ALREADY targeted you.

They need to make pets 'prepare' the spell and THEN have it target you.

 

[Vexxed]

So, another tamer bashing thread.

Well at least you were sneaky in the title.

Ummm.. Why YES it is Heartseeker & please explain to the rest of HOW 2+ screen casting from pets is balanced since you disagree.... Sheesh...

 

[red sky]

The problem is that they do not have a 'range check' as the spell is cast.

When the pet is 'preparing' the spell, it has ALREADY targeted you.

They need to make pets 'prepare' the spell and THEN have it target you.

What they said. And also, the dread fire breath tactic is a bit lame too. Only in ganks though.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Um...you guys understand that the pet targets while you are on screen, and that it takes enough time for the animations to take place that it only appears that you are getting hit from screens away, right??

If people can outrun spells and breath attacks successfully, then we should be able to outrun arrows and crossbow bolts as well.

How is silly is it to think that if someone fires an arrow at you that you can just run away and it won't hit you?

Seriously...get over yourselves.

 

[Draxous]

Make single tile dexxers worth playing.

There's no reason to not play an archer.

The item propery [balanced] and the special move: moving shot have all but made every other combat skill besides archery... pointless.


And fix the range on pet, monster casting... now 5 years later.

 

[AaronTheAssassin]

Um...you guys understand that the pet targets while you are on screen, and that it takes enough time for the animations to take place that it only appears that you are getting hit from screens away, right??

If people can outrun spells and breath attacks successfully, then we should be able to outrun arrows and crossbow bolts as well.

How is silly is it to think that if someone fires an arrow at you that you can just run away and it won't hit you?

Seriously...get over yourselves.

Oh Yes, I forgot that when a mage says Corp por, that very instant, he has me targeted, and I can not hide or get away or anything, im already dead. The animal STARTS the animation and has us targeted and its garunteed to hit us. Mages Start their spell and we are given the warning to GTFO. And I have NEVER seen an archer do 60+ dmg with one ammo even though they have the ability to miss

 

[WarUltima]

All the pets/monsters casting is rigged if it's enabled to a real player. Imaging the second you see a mage casting flame strike you are already targeted and queued and unable to offscreen. What made it even worse is pet casts two spell at a time and their special attack are completely independent from any other casting.

A dreadmare can effectively pick 2 spells to cast plus a fire breathe seemlessly.
Pets still has ranged check, if you are within 11-tile of it it can cast upto 2 spells+firebreathe on you even if you run out of its range 0.01 second later. Assuming the dread is going to cast fs exp then firebreathe, at this point ur already targeted and queue without a range or los limitation, so you are queue to be hit by 3 attacks because you were within range of the dread for longer than 0.25sec, thus you already failed to offscreen. flame strike has 1.25sec delay and explosion has 3, fire breathe is also about 3 second. By the time you are hit by the fs you are at 1screen away, and explosion and fire breathe will hit you about 2 second later and if you are bolting in straight line you will "feel" like you are hit 2 to 3 screens away. Its definately a pvp issue but i dont see it getting fixed anytime soon. Just gotta get used to pets rigged, exploit, range hack, triple casting style of casting. And try to survove. Most tamers are incapable of pvping due to the lacking in skill of playing a stand alone character, not that big of an issue. But when a tamer knows what they are doing, then unquestionably they ARE overpowered to anyone thats not delusional.

good luck.

 

[archite666]

Agreed completely.

The greater dragons have literally been complained about since day one of their creation.

As I said, its really annoying to run so far away people can't even find you to loot you.

I mean i'm glad they can't find my body but thats redicuous, getting several screens away before being hit.

Combined with the fact that it requires nothing to do, just "all kill" and this huge killing machine goes to work.

 

[It Lives]

Or is the real problem that you can be two screens away before you see the animation and take damage. Go-go speed racer

 

[Alezi]

Or is the real problem that you can be two screens away before you see the animation and take damage. Go-go speed racer

Have you heard of this spell called 'Teleport'?

 

[It Lives]

Which points even more to the Point that the spells and breath were used while that person was still on screen. That said player was just a bit faster than the animation and damage read.



* next you will be saying that pets can target you before you show up*

lol

 

[archite666]

Ok how about we ignore the 60 point fireball from multiple screens away and focus on some other things aspects of the greater dragon in pvp.

Almost unkillable - the stealth tamer simply walks away and logs the pet out when he gets in trouble, even if he lets it stick around, it takes a full team of players to kill one, or a disco tamer.

35 point damage along with bleed - this will send any mage running, all together can hit for almost 50 damage when all is said and done, not to mention interupting casting.

60 point fireball (excluding range) It can hit you for 60 damage at any given point. Making it the hardest hitting thing in pvp. If it were to melee you and then fireball you (two hits) you have taken 95 damage and are bleeding.

Multiple spell casting as per all monsters - It can hit you with multiple spells back to back, iv been chased by one and was actually flame struck 3 times in a row, not in rapid succession but it was able to do them while still chasing me.

So its a creature that can essentially armor ignore you and bleed you at the same time so its beats any dexxers abilities. Some have more than 120 wrestling as well, so they have a better chance to hit you.

It can caste on you while moving, an awesome mana pool and has a spell that can hit you for 60. So it pretty much blows every mage out of the park.

And its just a pet, the actual tamer can run hide, stealth to keep himself from danger while his dragon does all the work. Or he can run archery and dismount his opponents, putting them on a plate for the dragon.

Excuse me for whinning but come on guys, I posted a thread saying how everpowered these things were the day they came out and my guild tamed them. This is't a one sides view, they are great for pvm. But for pvp in general they are extremly overpowered, especially when the tamer runs hiding,stealth, max hp and hpr. Then he runs ninjitsu to smoke bomb and run in ostard form at mount speed.

You see the tamer needs no offensive skills besides taming and lore, so his other 4 skills are just allocated to defensive skills since his dragon can do everything for him.

Tamers in general have plagued siege for long enough and that was the mare and rune beetle combo, then they introduced the greater dragons and completely blew this whole tamer trend out of the park.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Oh Yes, I forgot that when a mage says Corp por, that very instant, he has me targeted, and I can not hide or get away or anything, im already dead. The animal STARTS the animation and has us targeted and its garunteed to hit us. Mages Start their spell and we are given the warning to GTFO. And I have NEVER seen an archer do 60+ dmg with one ammo even though they have the ability to miss

Do realize what changing the way monsters cast on targets would do to PvM??
You might as well just make everyone invulnerable. There is no effective way to re-code it to work differently in PvP and PvM, so don't look for the devs to do that.

 

[[LGND]]

The effective way to code for it would be simple. If a tamed pet attacks a player, apply the said restrictions. If a tamed pet attacks a monster, don't apply said restrictions. If an untamed monsters attacks a player, don't apply restrictions. This doesn't seem like it would take a whole lot of effort, or time.

 

[archite666]

Id say the simple fix would be:

1) no bleed attack
2) no fireball
3) make animal form take a control slot.

bam!

You still got your big nasty heavy hittin, instant casting machine that is very hard to kill but at best the tamer is on foot so he could in theory be revealed and attacked. Also the absense of bleed and fireball makes getting away from the dragon and living a good possbility.

bleed and fireball are not major in pvm, its the dragons constant huge attacks and magic that make it nasty.

 

[Alezi]

Which points even more to the Point that the spells and breath were used while that person was still on screen. That said player was just a bit faster than the animation and damage read.



* next you will be saying that pets can target you before you show up*

lol

Well, pets seem to be bugging in other ways as well. Especially Dread Warhorses. One dreadhorse tamer got zapped in the GZ along with his pet for attacking my evil thief. The pet followed me around as a ghost as I walked at the moongate, looting its owner's corpse. And all of the sudden the horse hit me with a _fireball_. As a *ghost* ½minutes after it had died and turned into a ghost.

 

[WarUltima]

There's actually many ways they can do to balance it at the slightest way.

First if they change pets to cast "normally" all monsters will cast the same way, thus lower mod difficulty for everyone, I don't see it game breaking.

Other than that there are still many ways to balance it. Basically currently pets has instant casting that's like 20 fast cast with no cap with double casting and instant special move toggle that can be toggled anytime randomly AND all that with protection running WITHOUT the -30phy blah blah. Pet casting is like a dream for all mages and it will turn a mage godlike. If 4/6 single casting was bad try 10000000/6 double casting with no sdi cap. Instant DOUBLE casting on everything with a bottom that will instantly cast a 3rd spell that does 80 fire dmg to 60fire resist while hitting you with their mage weapon for at least 35 a pop at 1.5sec a swing and auto bleeds on contact...

They can make fire breathe as a spell and count as one of the double cast spells. Or they can leave craps the same and remove double cast. Or they can make pet stop for 0.5 second to cast 2 spells uninterruptable. Or they can cap their dmg. And so on.

There are too many ways to fix this junk but the only thing that don't require extensive coding is dmg capping in pvp only, yet most tamers are against it. I don't and I am not afraid to should you my 4 tamers if you think I am biased. Other than stealth tamer I have mage/archer/bushido pvp tamer and a bard pvm tamer. Try me and see if I am Bsing.

 

[red sky]

I do see your point on this whole pet issue. All that I can say is that the pet involvement is much more complex than you are stating. I know several ways of fighting tamers in PVP that make them useless. So you should either find a new way to fight the tamers you are having problems with or the Devs will nerf tamers somehow (which I think are in good standing considering what happened with the pet balls and all of the skills points that are devoted to such templates.)


P.S. If you are fighting mount tamers (cu sidhe, dread mare) you just omen para the pet and invis it, which makes the tamer totally useless. You can also do this with greater dragon templates. This is all assuming you are playing a half decent necro mage and have someone else with you.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Id say the simple fix would be:

1) no bleed attack
2) no fireball
3) make animal form take a control slot.

bam!

You still got your big nasty heavy hittin, instant casting machine that is very hard to kill but at best the tamer is on foot so he could in theory be revealed and attacked. Also the absense of bleed and fireball makes getting away from the dragon and living a good possbility.

bleed and fireball are not major in pvm, its the dragons constant huge attacks and magic that make it nasty.

Which would just lead to more whining about casting, then the hitting, etc.

It all comes down to one thing, and one thing only...non-tamers want superiority over tamers. The sad thing is, they already have it, if they know how to play their templates.

 

[WarUltima]

Which would just lead to more whining about casting, then the hitting, etc.

It all comes down to one thing, and one thing only...non-tamers want superiority over tamers. The sad thing is, they already have it, if they know how to play their templates.

I sincerely disagree.

Any "variation" of PvP Tamers who do not have the superiority over other traditional non-Pet templates in PvP, do not know how to play a tamer template right.

Sadly this is the truth.

On any of my PvP tamers. I sure feel superior in term of the excessive power in any 1v1 against anyone without a GD or Dread mare not because I am better but I know how to play my template right even without my pets. Pets are like my extra layer of shield and gun... well, cannon I mean.

If you dont feel you are powerful enough to be superior than most of other players out there, learn to play YOUR tamer better. You already have the best pvp "tools" with you, learn to use them. You really CANT have anything else better at the expense of merely 200 skill points.

Good luck.

 

[G.v.P]

Why not tack on the ability for faction pets to go into stat loss for 20 minutes if they die.
and
If you die you have to wait 5 minutes before you can log out and your pet logs out with you. Figure if ya kill a tamer it'd be nice to kill there pet and get rid of .1 skill on em and or stat the pet. I highly doubt the majority of logouts auto pet stabling are done because of connection problems. ooh that'd upset a lot of dial up tamers. Make it so it only happens if you die from another player, are in stat, or in Felucca so the bluebies don't flame me.

EA, hire this man.

I'm all for it. Not being able to kill pets is lame.

But right now, until they fix weapon specials, the whole idea of stat loss is stupid.

 

[ATLPvPer]

Um...you guys understand that the pet targets while you are on screen, and that it takes enough time for the animations to take place that it only appears that you are getting hit from screens away, right??

If people can outrun spells and breath attacks successfully, then we should be able to outrun arrows and crossbow bolts as well.

How is silly is it to think that if someone fires an arrow at you that you can just run away and it won't hit you?

Seriously...get over yourselves.

Your unrelenting defense of anything and everything tamer related is honestly making you look extremely bias. EVERYONE knows this is unbalanced, yet you are trying to defend it? So, you wouldn't be against, say, a dexxer toggling you and you run 2 screen away, then since he toggled you, his AI still hits you?
Or how about the moment a mage casts flamestrike, as soon as you see his arms moving in the flamestrike animation, it will automatically hit you when he is finished casting it, even if you have ran 2 screens away?

This has nothing to do with getting 'over' ourselves. This is a sever imbalance, and if you cannot see that then you are wearing some extremely biased tamer glasses. This has nothing to do with wanting superiority over other templates, this is about FIXING something that should NEVER be in PvP! If a spell is in the process of casting, in no way shape or form should it hit another player if he is off the screen. It works that way for mages, an archer certainly can't hit you with an arrow from two screens away.

Do realize what changing the way monsters cast on targets would do to PvM??
You might as well just make everyone invulnerable. There is no effective way to re-code it to work differently in PvP and PvM, so don't look for the devs to do that.

Really? Are you a developer?? Do you have access to Ultima Online coding?
It is simple, drop the script that allows monsters to instantly hit just because a spell has been cast (pets do not have to stop to cast spells, nor can they be interrupted, but we're not complaining about that) once the monster is tamed. That is certainly possible and plausable. Please stop trying to protect your favorite template when there ARE certain things about it that are unbalanced. This is one simple fix that everyone who PvPs can agree on. 95% of tamers will agree this is simply unfair. I do not see how you cannot see it. Might help if you take off those glasses. Please don't reply that I just want to be superior over tamers, you do not know my template. If I played a bard, that wouldn't stop the pets from hitting me 2 screen away.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Really? Are you a developer?? Do you have access to Ultima Online coding?
It is simple, drop the script that allows monsters to instantly hit just because a spell has been cast (pets do not have to stop to cast spells, nor can they be interrupted, but we're not complaining about that) once the monster is tamed. That is certainly possible and plausable. Please stop trying to protect your favorite template when there ARE certain things about it that are unbalanced. This is one simple fix that everyone who PvPs can agree on. 95% of tamers will agree this is simply unfair. I do not see how you cannot see it. Might help if you take off those glasses. Please don't reply that I just want to be superior over tamers, you do not know my template. If I played a bard, that wouldn't stop the pets from hitting me 2 screen away.

Hamstringing tamers in PvM to stop the minority of tamers in the game from kicking your ass in PvP is not realistic. That's why I told you to "get over yourselves". Taming has been a part of UO since day 1. Have you?

I have no need to argue with you. This has all been said before. If the devs change it, they change it. If they don't, they don't.

Whine all you want...we will see how much good it does.

 

[archite666]

Which would just lead to more whining about casting, then the hitting, etc.

It all comes down to one thing, and one thing only...non-tamers want superiority over tamers. The sad thing is, they already have it, if they know how to play their templates.

You are incredibly biased, it has been explained time and time again.

taming
lore
vet
stealth
hiding
ninjitsu

Run max str with hp increase, and hp regen, 50 enhance potions

Throw bolas, all kill/all guard me. Smoke bomb when you get attacked. There is no character that has any chance in a 1v1 scenario.

Hell on siege iv seen shakaja ( a very infamous player and tamer) taking on an entire pvp group.

You have to put tracking and detect just to get the tamer to show, which gimps you because you really wont have the damage output to kill a max hp regen, 150 hp character swinging a bola with a greater dragon next to him.

Sure there are ways to get away from the dragon ( houses, fields ect) but just because you can actually get away from it doest mean anything. Thats like saying " well at least I can get away from you without dying, even though it takes me and 3 other people just to put up a worthy fight against you, yeah thats fair"

It makes no sence. Do you need me to make a video demonstrating how to play a tamer?

Lets look at some templates....

classic mage (wrestle scribe) - Well lets see...I can run around earthquaking while you easily walk away from me...nope that won't work.

Necromage - see above

Stealth bokker - well some of these have tracking...so I can run around tossing conflags randomly hoping i reveal you for a split second before you smoke bomb.

Bushido dexxer - Hm no track, only conflags, see above

Ok Ok lets add detect and track. Sweet, now 1/3 of my temp is just to reveal you.

So lets go with

120 swords
90 tactics
120 bushido
120 resist
100 track
100 detect
70 med

Ok kinda a BS temp I juss threw together, just your average bokker. Ok So now I can track and reveal you! Awesome, though your still in animal form and able to run at mount speed...Hmm...

Oh wait I'm a melee character, even if you stand still and LET me hit you, i'm gonna have a greater dragon hitting me for 35 a hit.... and since I actually need mana and dex I have less hp than you do.

Well thats a done deal.

The point i'm making is simple. The tamer simply needs to stay next to the dragon and nothing can get near him, even if they can reveal him.

So generally to take down a tamer, you need:

a tracker detecter, someone to run the dragon around while not dying, and like 3 mages to put actually mana vamp him and kill him.

Why three mages? attack someone with 17 hpr and 150 hp, and 50 EP and see how frickin hard it is to kill them.

You speak on the minorities of tamers? Tjere was a time on Siege were all you saw were greater dragons. The only reason you dont see them much now is because it got so incredably lame that we pretty much agreed as a shard to not run tamers because it was killing the shard.

Don't even get me started on what happens when you have a tamer in a group fight, or multiple tamers.

Can you name a template that when ran on two players can hit you for 120 damage as your running away? I can! Its called double fireballed from two greater drags and its one of the sadest things iv seen in pvp.

Or when a tamer has a stealth dismounter on his team. One minute you think your juss gonna run from the dragon, and the next your on a silver plate. Or a mage to throw para fields around the drag to give it more time to catch up to you.

Bottem line, tamers have always been a problem and the additon of greater dragons was a slap in the face to an already overwhelming problem.

 

[Wenchkin]

I think it's crystal clear that the majority of players in the PvP scene want to see tamers changed quickly, and have done for many months now. If not years

Not all tamers feel they have an appropriate level of power. If I take out a greater dragon it's obvious to me that they're just too much. How much overkill can a tamer need? LOL. It amazes me how many tamers take GDs out everywhere, it's like using a flamethrower to kill a fly.... Like with dreads, I'd have much preferred a sensible buff to the existing dragons and mares rather than uber versions of each. It's added yet more power to a template that I have never felt was lacking oomph. We had enough power before these critters arrived.

So yeah, I really wish EA would come out and lay their cards on the table with a list of changes and have it in the next publish. Not just to help improve PvP, but also so tamers know where they stand.

Here's a few suggestions:

1. Balance greater dragons, at the very least firebreath needs toned down.
2. Prevent a tamer from using logging out to save a pet from a PvP battle.
3. Bonding with a fighting pet should require vet skill (suggesting an alt skill for bushy guys with hiryu). Won't apply to pets that anyone can own.
4. Ensure that tamers can't use fast animal forms alongside a greater dragon.
5. Address concerns with pets casting and if possible reduce range and speed to a practical level.
6. Ideally remove the taming skills from skill + items and improve the gains system.

I keep hoping with each FoF and publish notes that something will come in to balance tamers, yet we seem to be under some special protection just now. This isn't just frustrating, it's worrying. After all this time we're still completely in the dark? Does that mean we'll barely be touched or nerfed to the point where UHall will be full of rage-quit posts? I just can't see any good reason for this silence. Seriously, I'm very concerned about the resulting changes if they're not openly discussed with the players concerned. The tamer's forum is open to any dev who wants to come and talk with us. Anything but this inexplicable silence

Wenchy

 

[dukarlo]

Theres always issues with pvp balance but the one that never even gets mentioned is the well known speedhack thats been being used for years now. I find it odd people are complaining about anything in pvp before complaining about the speedhacks. I would even argue EA has catered to players using it. Look at archery, does any template benefit by using the speedhacks more than archery? Yet running shot and balanced and ridiculously modded bows and quivers are out there. Look at factions, ridiculously powerful and easy to get items and faction are full of really fast players. Look at the WBB on GL. It was designed by a player that uses an illegal program(not that its that big a deal in pvp and i could care less about Trammel) and the guy even posted pics here on stratics with it yet EA still rewarded him by selecting his design. I see a guy with the master duelist title on GL but yet when you fight him on the field he is amongst the fastest(illegitimately mind you) on the shard and can offscreen at will to avoid damage. People can cry all they want about pvp balance(of course it needs balance) but as long as EA lets the inmates run the asylum as far as cheats go, UO pvp is doomed.

 

[WarUltima]

I agree completely.
I used to "solo" lady mel with a LOT of healing on the Cu, wasnt easy but it was doable expecially if you have a laptop/2nd PC and a 2nd account.

Now I can solo lady mel with little healing to a GD.

It was hard to kill a paragon Cu with a fully trained Cu with Gheal+Vet chain healing, now its a breeze to kill a Paragon Cu with a GD with vet along and not spending 1 single point in mana.

I dont know the reasoning to unleash creatures like GD and made them tamable other than DEV's attempt of "making Dragons fearsome once again".

Wild GDs are more powerful than the old ancient wyrm that's been around for 9+ years. It was rediculous to be able to have a tamed ancient wyrm for 9 years and all of a sudden it's OK now to have a tamed AND beefed up AWs...

From actual live server experiments I have done that no one has yet revealed... The formula for fire breathe attack. I found out that the base fire breathe damage is

Fire Breathe Dmg = (Creature's Current HP/5) and is capped at 200 damage.

Any creature with 1000hp that's also capable of using breathe attack will dish out fire breathe at capped 200 damage. That's 60dmg against 70 Fire Resist, 80dmg against 60FR, 100 against 50FR. The damage is incredible. If you are cursed by a pvp tamer mage expect to see some 80dmg FB and if your suit isnt corpse proof and you got corpsed expect to see FB dmg in the high 90s.

For the fellow dread horse mage gimps in case you are curious(I know a lot of people wants to know), a 640+ hp dread can be blessed up to 700hp, that's 56 FB damage after curse from a MOUNTABLE pet that only takes up three(3) control slots and you can have another nightmare dish out another 25 dmg FB if you really want to be low this is EXCLUDING ALL POSSIBLE MELEE HITS AND DOUBLE INSTANT CAST SPELLS that these puny pets can do to you. I dont even want to mention the little "trick" you can do to make you dreadmare to INSTANTLY FB as its first attack EVERYTIME. Now tell me in straight face, you do NOT see anything unbalanced at all...

Again I have 4 tamers (the lowest skilled tamer I have is at 105 real, highest is at 120 real) that's why I do all the "live testing" myself. Ive been playing tamers for a long time and I know every single piece of info on how a tamer can be played and is capable of.

I dont care if the change will nerf four(4) of my characters that I spent 100+ hours on each of them training. I am just a tamer who care more about balance than to defend my own characters.

 

[WarUltima]

Theres always issues with pvp balance but the one that never even gets mentioned is the well known speedhack thats been being used for years now. I find it odd people are complaining about anything in pvp before complaining about the speedhacks. I would even argue EA has catered to players using it. Look at archery, does any template benefit by using the speedhacks more than archery? Yet running shot and balanced and ridiculously modded bows and quivers are out there. Look at factions, ridiculously powerful and easy to get items and faction are full of really fast players. Look at the WBB on GL. It was designed by a player that uses an illegal program(not that its that big a deal in pvp and i could care less about Trammel) and the guy even posted pics here on stratics with it yet EA still rewarded him by selecting his design. I see a guy with the master duelist title on GL but yet when you fight him on the field he is amongst the fastest(illegitimately mind you) on the shard and can offscreen at will to avoid damage. People can cry all they want about pvp balance(of course it needs balance) but as long as EA lets the inmates run the asylum as far as cheats go, UO pvp is doomed.

I like how the "pvp=hacking" people always come in here and try to derail the topic. Why we talk about changes? because its EASY for DEVs to change the code than to eliminate hacks in UO. Most speedhacks in UO are not "mounted" to the client thus are virtually undetectable. And actually the speedhacks people use at best brings you all the way to server's CAP speed. There's a hardcap on the server on how fast a player can run, yet the UO client only enables an average player at great internet connection to run at around 80% of the speedcap, the speed "hack" brings you to near 100% but it's still impossible to go past the hardcap that's set on the server...

Basically the GMs can NOT ban a player because he/she has better "connection" to the server. (That's all they can see).

I ping 24 to my server and yet I still get chased down all the time, so I do feel your frustration (unless you are just another tamer using hack arguments to derail the topic). Connection speed shouldnt be the main player "skill" in any MMORPG... but sadly it certainly is in UO.

Anyways back to the topic, it will be easier for DEV to "fix" stuff ingame than to eliminate programs that they cannot even "see".

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I agree with WarUltima, archite666 & Wenchkin on everything except Animal Form taking a control slot. I don't agree with hindering Ninjitsu in ANY way (no matter how slight) just because Taming is OP as F. Images are already next to useless because people can kill them in tram with summons/hit area.

 

[Wenchkin]

I don't think I was very clear in my post there, sorry. What I was getting at was that I'd want the change to animal form to only nerf a ninja tamer when they're using a greater dragon. Not nerf it beyond that. The focus for me is very much on the tamer who abuses a form to enable mounted speed when controlling a GD, not on ninjas as a whole.

Wenchy

 

[archite666]

I agree with WarUltima, archite666 & Wenchkin on everything except Animal Form taking a control slot. I don't agree with hindering Ninjitsu in ANY way (no matter how slight) just because Taming is OP as F. Images are already next to useless because people can kill them in tram with summons/hit area.

Thanks for the support...uh..god (hm). But the animal form problem is simply one piece of the puzzle. It ist one particular thing that needs addressed here, its simple pvp evolution. People will use the best combination they can.

What is animal form simply was a "soft slot" like it doest actually take a control slot, but if you already have 5 slots full then you cant summon it.
animal form already gives you a several bonuses to choice from and the ability to run away once dismounted. People using 5 slots worth of pets shouldnt get mount speed as well.

 

[ATLPvPer]

I think it's crystal clear that the majority of players in the PvP scene want to see tamers changed quickly, and have done for many months now. If not years

Not all tamers feel they have an appropriate level of power. If I take out a greater dragon it's obvious to me that they're just too much. How much overkill can a tamer need? LOL. It amazes me how many tamers take GDs out everywhere, it's like using a flamethrower to kill a fly.... Like with dreads, I'd have much preferred a sensible buff to the existing dragons and mares rather than uber versions of each. It's added yet more power to a template that I have never felt was lacking oomph. We had enough power before these critters arrived.

So yeah, I really wish EA would come out and lay their cards on the table with a list of changes and have it in the next publish. Not just to help improve PvP, but also so tamers know where they stand.

Here's a few suggestions:

1. Balance greater dragons, at the very least firebreath needs toned down.
2. Prevent a tamer from using logging out to save a pet from a PvP battle.
3. Bonding with a fighting pet should require vet skill (suggesting an alt skill for bushy guys with hiryu). Won't apply to pets that anyone can own.
4. Ensure that tamers can't use fast animal forms alongside a greater dragon.
5. Address concerns with pets casting and if possible reduce range and speed to a practical level.
6. Ideally remove the taming skills from skill + items and improve the gains system.

I keep hoping with each FoF and publish notes that something will come in to balance tamers, yet we seem to be under some special protection just now. This isn't just frustrating, it's worrying. After all this time we're still completely in the dark? Does that mean we'll barely be touched or nerfed to the point where UHall will be full of rage-quit posts? I just can't see any good reason for this silence. Seriously, I'm very concerned about the resulting changes if they're not openly discussed with the players concerned. The tamer's forum is open to any dev who wants to come and talk with us. Anything but this inexplicable silence

Wenchy

If any post here should be read by the Devs, it should be this one. Thanks, Wenchy!

 

[Larry]

It's not just dragons and mares. Cu bushido dexxers are just as stupidly overpowered.

Nerve strike - > dismount all kill 60 damage bite -> armor ignore = dead

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I do see your point on this whole pet issue. All that I can say is that the pet involvement is much more complex than you are stating. I know several ways of fighting tamers in PVP that make them useless. So you should either find a new way to fight the tamers you are having problems with or the Devs will nerf tamers somehow (which I think are in good standing considering what happened with the pet balls and all of the skills points that are devoted to such templates.)


P.S. If you are fighting mount tamers (cu sidhe, dread mare) you just omen para the pet and invis it, which makes the tamer totally useless. You can also do this with greater dragon templates. This is all assuming you are playing a half decent necro mage and have someone else with you.

So your tactic to balance tamers is always make sure you have multiple people with you? Because that tactic will not work 1v1 lol. Awesome balance, just make sure you are in a zerg...

 

[WarUltima]

It's not just dragons and mares. Cu bushido dexxers are just as stupidly overpowered.

Nerve strike - > dismount all kill 60 damage bite -> armor ignore = dead

Actually at all 70 cold and energy resist the Cu cant dish out beyond 40 damage, but they DO instant bleed you even if they whiff on their main attack. Cu and Hiryu isnt that big of a problem because even if you are dismounted they cannot really damage you unless there is some sort of assistance from the tamer. Where as against GD or dread+mare if you are dismounted you ARE going to get hit by 2 to 4 spells + 60dmg FB + possible bleed and 35 melee hit for GD OR 4 to 8 spells + 65 double FB from dread/mare combo before you can run off screen. Thats assuming the tamer didnt bother to try to para/para shot/nuke you.

Cu is still a problem but its much worse on pets that can dish out 100+ dmg nearly instantly from 3 screens away.

 

[archite666]

Actually at all 70 cold and energy resist the Cu cant dish out beyond 40 damage, but they DO instant bleed you even if they whiff on their main attack. Cu and Hiryu isnt that big of a problem because even if you are dismounted they cannot really damage you unless there is some sort of assistance from the tamer. Where as against GD or dread+mare if you are dismounted you ARE going to get hit by 2 to 4 spells + 60dmg FB + possible bleed and 35 melee hit for GD OR 4 to 8 spells + 65 double FB from dread/mare combo before you can run off screen. Thats assuming the tamer didnt bother to try to para/para shot/nuke you.

Cu is still a problem but its much worse on pets that can dish out 100+ dmg nearly instantly from 3 screens away.

Here here brother!

So lets try and get a fix to this!

 

[BillyDanzig]

Wow no one mentioned making the poisioning skill useable in pvp .. Nox used to be pretty effective on a character now its just a simple chug of a pot for any level poison and its gone ..
This makes making a Nox character of any type worthless .. Cure method should work something like this lesser poison - poison should take 1-2 potions to cure .. Greater poison takes 2-3 potions with a minimum of 1 Tick of damage before cure .. Deadly and Lethal poison 2-4 potions to cure with a minimum of 2 ticks of damage before curing ..This also should go for chivalry heals and arch cures bandaids any cure methods

I belive this idea will fix several current issues first it will make Nox characters useable again .. Also balances pot chuggers - mages and paladins that will fail trying to cure higher level potions instead of just insta cures

Also before orange petals get questioned they should work as follows orange petals should only prevent lesser and regular posion effects - and take 1 less use on greater posions so instead of 2-3 potions/ cure/ cleanse by fire it takes 1-2 - and high level poisons like deadly and lethal 2-3 cures

Same deal with resisting spells this only avoids lesser ,regular and greater poison , Deadly and Lethal posions should still need to be cured .. Something like this 80 - 99.9 Resist No chance of lesser poisons 100-110 blocks regular posion and 115-120 blocks greater poision.
Which leaves deadly and lethal to be cured with arch cures , potions, chivalry or Aids

 

[archite666]

Wow um we get it? You like Nox, please start another thread and do not derail this one.

Once taming is fixed I will totally help you in your quest to fix poisoning.

Pinky promise.

 

[Concerned]

I've noticed the delay as well, and have studied it a bit... the delay isnt from the pet casting 2 screens away. When you hear the firebreath coming and youre on the screen u run (youre already doomed) the delay is in the time it takes for the pet to produce the fireball (that already has your name on it) and the normal delay of the fire spells. It just happens that you manage to get a couple screens off before the dmg takes effect.
Try having a buddy cast a meteor swarm on you at the top bridge and run... you'll get almost onto the island before the dmg hits ya... its the same deal with fireballs + the delay of the production of the firebreath =/
The way to avoid this is be sure youre healing or fully healed when you hear the dragon/dreadmare start producing... it buys you the same 3 seconds to chug a pot or complete an aid, confidence or whatever the case may be... if for some reason you panic and just run you'll die but if you can get a good heal off somehow then... ur doin good (spend your 2 screens worth of runnin on a good heal) or dont fight dragons =)

 

[Sir Morder]

Well well well, i've stumbled through yet another cry bash "I can't kill the tamer" thread. Yet i failed to see one post by cash or anyone else that has parry on their bushido template. I wonder why this is? Wasn't that the whole idea of creating a samuri? To be able to parry? Lemme take a stab at why there are all these cry babies. Is it because i can't fit parry into my already overpowered template? I just wanna use bushido to get the max outta LS and sink the extra points i have into med so i can just keep an endless supply of LS's on my oppenent and load of my items on dci on di. I've read posts complaining i cant get away from this tamer's GD. ARE YOU SERIOUS?? I can run anat and healing with mediocre EP items and outrun any GD on foot all day. The posts Morgan has made ARE correct and i've posted this info long long ago. I've read the posts about pep's complaing i need a couple people to fight a tamer. ARE YOU SERIOUS??? On siege thats all that happens no matter what template your running. Tairon for example posted a couple weeks ago that his mule crafter template was ganked and res killed over and over again. It's time to wake up people. It's not the templates that are ruinning PvP. It's the PLAYSTYLE and the oversized EGO's of the majority of players here. A perfect example of this is the sheer number of crying posts that pop up day in and day out every single day. WAA WAAA WAAA, i cant beat you, you must be cheating!!! Hey there's so and so, i'll log into vent and see if anyone can come help gank this sucka. I don't play prodo shards so i wouldn't know how many guilds you have there, but if anyone comes to siege you have 4 guilds to choose from WCB, tnt, low, koc. Thats pretty much it. And i'm pretty sure each guild has their fair share of pvm pvp tamers. Thanks. Out.

 

[CatLord]

It is perfect the way it is...

 

[ATLPvPer]

I've noticed the delay as well, and have studied it a bit... the delay isnt from the pet casting 2 screens away. When you hear the firebreath coming and youre on the screen u run (youre already doomed) the delay is in the time it takes for the pet to produce the fireball (that already has your name on it) and the normal delay of the fire spells. It just happens that you manage to get a couple screens off before the dmg takes effect.
Try having a buddy cast a meteor swarm on you at the top bridge and run... you'll get almost onto the island before the dmg hits ya... its the same deal with fireballs + the delay of the production of the firebreath =/
The way to avoid this is be sure youre healing or fully healed when you hear the dragon/dreadmare start producing... it buys you the same 3 seconds to chug a pot or complete an aid, confidence or whatever the case may be... if for some reason you panic and just run you'll die but if you can get a good heal off somehow then... ur doin good (spend your 2 screens worth of runnin on a good heal) or dont fight dragons =)

This is completely false. I have been hit plenty of times by a flamestrike when the greater dragon or mare was not even on screen, or line of sight (other side of a building, for example) it is not a firebreath isolated problem.