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Do You Want A Classic Shard??

Do you want a Classic UO shard?


  • Total voters
    485

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Eh, so much for trying to be subtle about it. I voted "no" in the original poll. If someone ever asked me if I think it would be a good idea for EA to create a "classic shard," I might vote yes, but with so many qualifications that the vote might as well be counted as a "no" or a solid "maybe."

I don't have the history or out-of-game experiences to be able to sit here and try to make the arguments why a classic shard probably isn't feasible. I've just been trying to ask a few questions here or there to get the people who want one so badly to say something, anything, other than what they usually say in these threads. Could have used the pot-stirring or popcorn icons myself a few times, but didn't want to be so frigging obvious about what I was doing.
You did try, and gallantly at that.

I am far less than subtle, and admire your restraint.

I will never say that a Classic Shard isn't feasible...but I know that you truly understand that, I think. I will say that so far, no one has found it feasible enough, to warrant it's construction.

Anyway, I need to go play some UO...until we meet again!

:)
 
M

Myrkrid Ashen

Guest
Good lord. Can a mod lock this thread already? It's getting ridiculous.
And put an end to all the fun? Just snuff out four pages, and four hundred posts of pure (albeit entertaining) drivel mixed with one part nostalgia and two parts self-righteousness?!

No. Much better to let it fester some more. Thus proving, unequivocally, why most of the ''fifty thousand remaining subscribers'' choose to avoid these forums like the black plague.

For my part, I voted no. I did so because the question itself comes off sounding selfish. It ought to read ''Do you want Classic Shards?'' As one simply wouldn't cut it for those who live in other parts of the world. You'd need at least two, you see. So you know what that means, don't you? New poll! Twice the madness! Thrice the rage!

:drama:
 

Harlequin

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
IBTL woot!! :D

While I have to say the thread turned a bit nasty, I believe it's been a very good discussion. At the very least, I see that there's alot of players in the community that's very passionate about it. And that passion is perhaps why people are having heated debates. Everyone have their viewpoints, I disagree with people on some things, I agree with them on other things, that's the wonderful part about variety. If my wife and I agree on every single little thing, we'd be clones and it'll be boring...

In this debate, both sides have vaild reasoning. I have considered and weighed both scenarios I could think of in all my previous posts on this subject too. There are indeed pros and cons to the idea that only the folks at EA can properly dissect. I can only vote according to what I believe will be better - which is for a classic shard because I feel diversity is good and will re-attract a group of diehard fans back.

Simply wanting something doesn't mean you will get it even if you try very very hard and have been a very nice boy since last christmas. Then again, people shouldn't simply give up even when the odds are low. The wonderful thing about human ambition is that it drives us all to wonderful new heights. We now fly across countries in gigantic metal tubes and even went to the moon! Beat that!

I have many crazy ideas that I keep posting. Will they ever be implemented? Probably not. Will I stop posting new ideas? No way! Who knows? Maybe one day I will hit upon a great idea! Yeah, I have a mild Pollyanna complex :D

The best thing about this thread is that the EA folks now have at least some rudimentary numbers and we have seeded the thought. It may not happen tomorrow, it may not even happen at all, but at least they have some reference point should they want to start a feasibility study :D

P/S: Would also like to add that when folks start losing their tempers and begin to diss people, they have already lost the arguement.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Not that it really matters, but after your tirade of insults, I feel bad that you would resort to any action to help your own cause.
The entire tone of your very first post in this thread was insulting...and has continued to be so through your latest one.

Perhaps if you would like to avoid insults being leveled at you, you could first consider not leveling them at those around you.

I am done with you.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
I laughed when I read this earlier this morning, Morgana. Still laughing over it and shaking my head.

Thought about not replying at all. But that might make you think perhaps you hurt my feelings or perhaps scared me off.

Anyway, since I can no longer resist the urge to ask this and although I'm fairly certain I know what the answer will be, I'm gonna do it: Which of the folks who voted "yes" to this poll considers themselves the true sheep herder?
I actually feel bad about saying that to do, and I apologize.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
I think I have made my points in this thread, and so I think I will retire from it.

I would like to just say to those that are so dead set against this, that I wish you could understand why some of us older UO players feel that we were robbed of something that we had before UO:R and AoS. But I suppose I should understand why you might not. This game has always, even in the first days, been of a competitive nature. So it remains 'us' vs. 'them' in many aspects, even though the days of PK vs. Anti-PK are long gone.

I hope that someone at Mythic can see what a classic shard would mean to some of the old vets here, and in the game. I hope that EA can see the business sense in this, as it is not going to cost them any subscriptions to do this...it would only add to them.

As for the people in this thread that disagreed with me and got hostile, or that I got hostile with...I do apologize. UO has been a part of my life for over 11 years now. I have made friends and enemies along the way, and I have had a wonderful time doing so...and I hope to continue that, even if it is on current production shards, until the day they close that down.

I cannot promise that this will be the end of this topic, but I can promise that this will be my last post on Stratics concerning it.

Have fun, and enjoy the game while you can, because one day, you may be the one that finds themselves wanting something other than what is currently available, and you might just understand what some of this is about.
 

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The entire tone of your very first post in this thread was insulting...and has continued to be so through your latest one.

Perhaps if you would like to avoid insults being leveled at you, you could first consider not leveling them at those around you.

I am done with you.
The Entire Tone of the post?

You must have missed this entire part, at the end of my first post.

Eyes stopped working?
And, in closing, I will say again that if a Classic Shard would help UO, and bring in the revenues that proponents claim it would, I would say go for it, in a second.

But only if.

Nothing is impossible.

I will hereby hope that whatever data they are looking at gives them the impetus to undertake a Classic Shard for all of you that really want it, and that it would be wildly successful. Maybe Draconi and other could figure out a way that no one had thought of before, or something, and make it profitable.

Cheers!
So...me saying that, at the end of my post, in absolute Sincerity...somehow...

What...Pissed you off? You poor thing. Here is Surgeries, that Bully, telling you he is wishing you well. What an A$$HOLE!!!

Your "Oh Poor Me" Victim attitude is getting old. No..it IS Old.

You're "Done" with me? Hopefully, then, you've done the very smart thing, and clicked Ignore.

Pshaw...you are done with me? Hardly...you are looking for any excuse you can to justify far less than "Community" behavior.

Well, in this case, you will have to do better. I most assuredly took a "Tone" with you, in this thread but I feel that Righteous Indignation always has it's place against misinformation and propaganda. Always.

I also will also not sit idly by and let you slander and deface people that you have never met, for whatever reason you choose. Not today...not ever.

Your guild...your signature...all of it...after what I have seen today...

You wouldn't know true Virtue if it whacked you in the head.

What a farce.
 

Tina Small

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As for the people in this thread that disagreed with me and got hostile, or that I got hostile with...I do apologize. UO has been a part of my life for over 11 years now. I have made friends and enemies along the way, and I have had a wonderful time doing so...and I hope to continue that, even if it is on current production shards, until the day they close that down.

I cannot promise that this will be the end of this topic, but I can promise that this will be my last post on Stratics concerning it.
Morgana, thank you for the private message you sent me and for this note. Apology accepted and I apologize too if I said things to fuel the fire too much!

I hope that you will reconsider what you said about not posting anymore about this subject. Why? Because I have a couple of questions on this subject that have been bugging the heck out of me and I would like to hear what you and others (not just those that voted in favor of a classic shard) think about them.

Here's what's puzzling me, and please bear in mind that I've only been playing UO for about 4 1/2 years when I ask this:

Let's assume a classic shard (or two or three) gets off the ground. I think it's probably pretty safe to assume that these shards are going to initially attract folks who want to engage in old-style UO PvP, whether it be as an "evil PKer," a thief, or as a "protector of the defenseless." However, do you think that a classic shard is going to succeed in attracting resource gatherers, crafters, and merchants? I could be very wrong on this, but it seems to me that a later version of UO would be far more attractive to people who want to play these types of characters because it would offer a greater variety of resources to gather, sell and use; a far greater variety of items to craft; and a much wider variety of items to buy and sell and profit from; and far more safety for playing these types of characters.

I have read many many posts talking about the satisfaction people got from working up a crafting skill and earning the trust of other players to do repairs and, I assume, to take the materials they had gathered in some way and craft items for them. But do you think that alone would be enough to bring in and keep the folks who enjoy crafting, especially the ones who don't have very outgoing personalities?

And what about people who enjoy playing a merchant...Would a classic shard really keep them happy for long? Would classic UO even include player-controlled NPC vendors? (Sorry for such a basic question, but I really don't know when those were added to the game.)

Someone that I used to play with once told me that games like UO keep people hooked on the game by continuously shifting things around so that you are periodically forced to have to make at least some small adjustments to your skills and your gear just to keep going. Do you believe this is true, and if it is, what's the best way for EA to apply this philosophy to a classic shard to keep people interested in playing there?
 

Kaleb

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Let's assume a classic shard (or two or three) gets off the ground. I think it's probably pretty safe to assume that these shards are going to initially attract folks who want to engage in old-style UO PvP, whether it be as an "evil PKer," a thief, or as a "protector of the defenseless." However, do you think that a classic shard is going to succeed in attracting resource gatherers, crafters, and merchants? I could be very wrong on this, but it seems to me that a later version of UO would be far more attractive to people who want to play these types of characters because it would offer a greater variety of resources to gather, sell and use; a far greater variety of items to craft; and a much wider variety of items to buy and sell and profit from; and far more safety for playing these types of characters.
The classic style was not just about PvP It is more about community, On the PRS i play there is No tram at all. PvM and crafting are thriving. I love pvm on this classic server its challenging like before aos it takes good player skill to even kill a dragon (it wont die in just 2-3 hits :) ). Keep in mind all these people have a chance to play a normal style server or just tram based, thats why i get a little peeved when people want to call me and others like me "sheep".

Crafters do not have to compete against artifacts and super leet armors. Just simple GM gear can sell pretty easy. They offer a bod system and we do get runics but tailor runics only add durability. Smithy runics can only make weapons that are as strong as what you can loot in game. and the crafting trades are the only 2 that can recieve a 120 powerscroll. in the end crafters are among the richest on the shard :) ).

I have read many many posts talking about the satisfaction people got from working up a crafting skill and earning the trust of other players to do repairs and, I assume, to take the materials they had gathered in some way and craft items for them. But do you think that alone would be enough to bring in and keep the folks who enjoy crafting, especially the ones who don't have very outgoing personalities?
when you can sell almost everything you can make it makes it worth it, even more so when all armor types are viable unlike just leather or runic gear. W/O insurance alot of crafters have a hard time staying stocked, Items break,get looted, lost on corpse so there is always demand for armors, weapons and clothing.

And what about people who enjoy playing a merchant...Would a classic shard really keep them happy for long? Would classic UO even include player-controlled NPC vendors? (Sorry for such a basic question, but I really don't know when those were added to the game.)

The vendor system would very much be part of the game even with the current vendor system, there is always going to be items in UO that are worth buying and selling on my "classic Shard" for example merchants sell rares and weaps, armor, bod's, There are no items like artifacts, EM's & GM,s only hand out named blessed clothing (nothing that could enhance or unbalance combat be it pvm or pvp), and decor items. some alot more rare than others. There is always plenty for a merchant to sell.

Someone that I used to play with once told me that games like UO keep people hooked on the game by continuously shifting things around so that you are periodically forced to have to make at least some small adjustments to your skills and your gear just to keep going. Do you believe this is true, and if it is, what's the best way for EA to apply this philosophy to a classic shard to keep people interested in playing there?
Not at all. One thing that turns me off the most with the "AOS" system is that whenever there is a change I have to basicly throw out months worth of work on getting my suit and template built, its really no wonder people have to script to keep up with skill changes. I have to deal with math all day at work and the last thing I want to do is crunch numbers so I can compete with the people that can play all day long.

That is why I have always said the old Armor/weapon/skill (pre aos) is the only system for UO as basic as it was it worked and was balanced for the most part. If we would have remained with that system to this day I feel we would not be focusing time on combat/item balance/bug fixes instead the devs would have more resources and time for expansions and content. I always believed EA/UO has lost more money with AOS skill/item/combat systems from lost subs to constant balance and bug fixes, and time creating new items then what it has brought in to this day. Old system UO (even with all the new landmasses) I feel would be almost 100% bug free and balanced like the PRS i play.

I also feel Expansions would not take as long developing and that KR/SA client would rock with that system.
 
B

Bc-

Guest
Wow I haven't seen those modifiers in a long time. As you can see a Vanq weapon was a substantial item to have, however supremely accurate vanqs were very rarely seen on the combat feel because of the associated risk of losing that weapon upon death. Honestly even to have one was a rare thing unless you bombed monsters all day. I think I maybe had 1 or 2 that I only busted out for Oasis Fight Nights on Sonoma.

Pretty cool stuff thanks for posting that.
 

Kaleb

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Thats the way items should have stayed :)
It is the only system UO can have that would be truly balanced in PvP and PvM combat together, Its well.... UO, sometimes the simplest things are the best like guitar riffs. Thats why I will always fight for a classic server, Be it for fellucians or trammies but never together on the same server. I even believe there needs to be a tram based siege where Pvm is at least 2x as challenging, offer guildwars/spars and factions as the only forms of PvP.
 
M

Mr Moosestache

Guest
Wow, there is a name I have not seen in forever. Bc-, it's Lacrimo Cruor, haties of SAS, etc. from Sonoma. I've been trying to find you, wondering if you still had any screenshots from the time we organized the "red coalition" for the Lord Blackthorne event. Where we killed, basically the entire shards blues. The old thread posted in the "Murderer's Hall of Fame" is no longer there, so I was hoping you would still have them. PM me, or ICQ me sometime - 87367447.
 

Kaleb

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wow, there is a name I have not seen in forever. Bc-, it's Lacrimo Cruor, haties of SAS, etc. from Sonoma. I've been trying to find you, wondering if you still had any screenshots from the time we organized the "red coalition" for the Lord Blackthorne event. Where we killed, basically the entire shards blues. The old thread posted in the "Murderer's Hall of Fame" is no longer there, so I was hoping you would still have them. PM me, or ICQ me sometime - 87367447.
There are PM's for a reason.
 
A

a drunk elf

Guest
The only thing that interests me about these boards is reading an occasional post about MAYBE starting up a Pre-Renaissance shard.

I voted YES. Please bring us a "Classis Shard".
 
M

Mr Moosestache

Guest
There are PM's for a reason.
Thanks for the non-insightful tip.


I think the only real way it can work effectively is if they were to make it a UO:R (Before Publish 16, aka powerscrolls) type shard. Yes, where Tram and Fel, both coincide on the same server. Asking for one shard, is reasonable. Asking for them to make two SEPERATE shards for this, is pushing it. You know if they tried to make a strictly Fel shard (as much as I would love to see it.) there would be to much going against it in the terms of the UO population now.

I still stand by my belief that it would help bring back a lot of old vet players. For the statistics people, you can never put an exact number on how many would return or how many would play the server, until, it has been attempted. Same could be said when they made UO from the start, or when they decided to put out AoS, or make Warhammer Online. Stop asking for numbers that are impossible to judge.
 

Kaleb

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Thanks for the non-insightful tip.
If it were "non-insightful" then why didnt you use a PM?

No. tram and fel playstyles should not be together on one server on a classic shard, they could make one i really dont care but they should not be together on a classic server, A classic server is based on the old pre-aos combat/item/skill system and is true to the spirit of UO meaning one ruleset per shard thats why I say if they make a fel based server they need a tram one also.
 
C

CORRECTUO

Guest
How many times do we have to :bdh:?

The devs have said they won't and can't do this.
They never said they couldnt or that they wouldnt. As a matter of fact, they never said anything either wich way, giving only vague, go nowhere answers.

And as for them not being able to make a classic server, well gee, there seem to be dozens of independant programers out there who have access to significantly less resources than EA/Mythic, yet they see to be able to set up and maintain free servers with relative ease. You mean to tell me that the EA/Mythic devs are less skilled and have less resources than some independant programer working alone? Wow, thats sad for EA.

- You really want to pull devs away from the regular shards and have them working on a "classic" shard?
Oh yeah, because the current shards are such booming successes that arent plagued by massive duping, nerfed skills, imbalanced gameplay, speed hackers which drives players away. Oh, wait, they are... hmmm.

Please, be realistic for once. The current "regular" servers are a frigging mess, and this is with 100% dev attention. They've jacked the regular servers up so badly with all of their changes that they really need to stop, because the regular servers are the preverbial :bdh:

- Players can't even agree what "classic" is
BUUUZZZZ! Wrong again. The majority of old school players will agree that a T2A server would be the best choice when it comes to a classic server.

- Are the players who want this forgetting all the problems we've had in the past? It's not like a "classic" shard was a panacea of game play.
Compared to the problems of today, the problems of the older eras seem miniscule. People didnt even really hear about duping and speed hacking until the item domination of AOS. Sure, it happened, but it wasnt game breaking. Why? Because items in the old days didnt need to be duped, they could be made or retrieved by players without having to run some WoW style raid dungeon to get it where even if the item you want drops, your odds of getting it are cut down by the number of people in the group.

- I found the pre-whatever UO boring after about 6 months.
Well, no one is saying that you'd have to play the classic server, now are they? You can stay on your item slave shards and leave those of us who do want for the true UO to enjoy our era.

All of the naysayers to the Classic servers idea are afraid. They know that if classic servers were instituted that the "regular" servers would clear out even more and there would be no one to show off their precious neon freak gear to and act all l33t around. Nor would there be anyone around to charge 10 million gold for a freaking artifact. No, sorry, the economy on the classic server would be stable. Sta-ble. You know, as in, it actually works. I know the word stable hasnt been used to describe anything in UO for a very long time, and the concept of a fair and open economy may frighten you, but its true.

The bottom line is, the devs have nothing to lose by putting out some classic servers. It worked for DAoC after Mythic jacked that game up. It would be the saving grace UO needs to get its long lost players to return.
 
C

CORRECTUO

Guest
If it were "non-insightful" then why didnt you use a PM?

No. tram and fel playstyles should not be together on one server on a classic shard, they could make one i really dont care but they should not be together on a classic server, A classic server is based on the old pre-aos combat/item/skill system and is true to the spirit of UO meaning one ruleset per shard thats why I say if they make a fel based server they need a tram one also.
They already have Tram servers, its called the ones they currently have.
 
C

CORRECTUO

Guest
There is the wolves and sheep theory which applies to PvP MMORPGs. People will not pay to be sheep [which obviously does not apply to freeshards because users do not pay]. You have seen it recently with AoC and WAR, both with huge initial subscriptions and are now tanking. Seige is the least populated shard, and Darkfall looks like it is going to be an epic fail. In contrast look at the ongoing success of WOW. Its focus is on PvE and is still gaining subscriptions.
Okay, heres where AOC, WAR and Darkfall all went wrong. It wasnt because of the PvP, it was because of how poorly all of the other game mechanics were implemented. It was quite the contrary. The PvP was the big draw for a lot of people. The only problem was that everything else in those games failed.... horribly.

AOC, buggy crash fest riddled with mem leaks and boobs. Also, levels and classes never make for good PvP environments because a level 1 doesnt stand a chance against a level 80. It just doesnt work.

WAR, over hyped and under developed. People leveled to end game too quickly and there was nothing for them to do once they did. Actuall, that right there can be said about both AOC and WAR. And, again, higher leveles dominated lower levels. Recipie for disaster.

Darkfall: Now, Darkfall actually had a shot, before its devs didnt just drop the ball, they spiked it, shot it, then ran it over with a freight train. The open PvP concept they had would have actually worked. What killed Darkfall, or should I say what is KILLING Darkfall is that the combat is reminicent of a CS knife fight for melee which collapses in on itself because of the overly high stamina sink. Anyway, what darkfall did right was even though a character was new, a group of them could stand a change against a group of higher, better developed characters, depending on which characters were being operated by the more skilled players. This is a lot like the way UO used to be, back in T2A.

The reason WoW keeps gaing sub fees splits down 2 roads. The first road is Gold Farmers. The bulk of WoWs 12 million sub base is mostly gold farmer accounts. Soooo, you really cant say its drawing in players.

Not to mention that WoW is the most advertised MMO out there. Its pretty much the only MMO most gamers know about because they see comercials for it and other advertisements.

The second road is that WoW isnt all PvE. They have a large number of PvP servers that have massive populations. Wow offers diversity in their choice of servers, allowing the game to appeal to more playstyles. The more types of players a game can appeal to, the more of a success it will be. As of right now, UO only really caters to a PvE, item slave audience. the PvP is shot, plain and simple.

But that wasnt always the case for the PvP in UO. Back in T2A, it was highly functional and enjoyable. Player skill dominated, not what gear you had on. Granted having good gear helped, but it wasnt the deciding factor in a fight. I once saw one guy in regular GM gear take down another who was in full invul gear weilding a vanq DP hally. That is the kind of PvP that UO needs to get back. You cant do that with the current servers item dependancy.
 
M

Mr Moosestache

Guest
I didn't use a PM because from my PM experiences, I've noticed not many people check them.


On the whole Tram/Fel thing. I'm not sure if you realize or have just forgotten but Tram was created with UO:R. Which was a good long while before "item reliant" UO (AoS) was created. I would prefer a Fel only server, but I don't see (If it was to happen at all) us getting it that way.
 
O

Old Man of UO

Guest
...

Compared to the problems of today, the problems of the older eras seem miniscule. People didnt even really hear about duping and speed hacking until the item domination of AOS. Sure, it happened, but it wasnt game breaking. Why? Because items in the old days didnt need to be duped, they could be made or retrieved by players without having to run some WoW style raid dungeon to get it where even if the item you want drops, your odds of getting it are cut down by the number of people in the group.

...
Where the heck did you get your information? You are so completely wrong in so many of your assumptions, but let's just pick this one paragraph here. Duping was known about even during the original Beta is 1997, only then it was duping gold. I was there shortly after and wondered for a long time how my guild leader started out with 23 houses, and carried an anvil in her pack.

UOE was the curse of so many non-cheaters and it had nothing to do with items but gaining advantage over the fellow players. This thrid party program would allow you to do things that just couldn't be done otherwise in UO, like the data stream crash, or whatever it was called, that allowed people to crash other players' client. The first time that happened to me, I thought "what the heck happened?" and came back to the game dead and looted. It happened several times after that until I learned where to stay away from.

There were just as many cheats back then as there are now, they were just different cheats.
 
R

RichDC

Guest
Bored!!!

What a boring thread...I feel like ive read the exact same thing 100times!

Still they keep moving forward, not backwards.

Yes uo has some problems, yes i miss the pre aos era, so what!

life moves on!!

DEAL WITH IT!
 
T

Turdnugget

Guest
Duping was known about even during the original Beta is 1997, only then it was duping gold.
Duping gold wasn't that big of an issue back then...What could you buy with all your duped gold? Not much...GM armor... vanq/invul items when people did sell them... but guess what? Those items hardly EVER came out unless it was server down wars when the people knew they wouldn't lose that item.

So what was the point of duping anyways?

So having an anvil in your pack is worse than being able to move 2x faster than your opponent, walk over bagballs/stumps/gravestones, insta cure yourself, chug pots while equipped with a bow, not losing ANYTHING but maybe a few gold when you die...

Being able to mine ore and craft stuff with an anvil in your pack seems rather small compared to all the lameness in current UO.

Don't try to argue that there would be duping in a classic server, sure there would, but it doesn't really hurt the economy/game like it does today where you find tons of val/horned/heartwood runics all over the place.

Rich, if this thread bores you, don't read it. Isn't it time for your fish n' chips anyways?
 
R

RichDC

Guest
Wow touchy lol

Its the same sh*t different thread, i hasnt done anything the last 1000+ threads why would it now...besides look at the poll nearly 50/50 and ill gues half of the yes' dont even play uo...so dont let the door hit your ass on the way out waiting for a classic shard.

UO as life continues to move forwards and evolve, if you cant deal with it you can always leave.
 
D

Der Rock

Guest
Wow I haven't seen those modifiers in a long time. As you can see a Vanq weapon was a substantial item to have, however supremely accurate vanqs were very rarely seen on the combat feel because of the associated risk of losing that weapon upon death.
Pretty cool stuff thanks for posting that.
Originally Posted by Malimus said:
Thats the way items should have stayed
Originally Posted by Kaleb said:
It is the only system UO can have that would be truly balanced in PvP and PvM combat together, Its well.... UO, sometimes the simplest things are the best like guitar riffs. Thats why I will always fight for a classic server,
sure, sure, BEST items belongs to the bankbox or lockdown on the housefloor
why vanq- waepons anyway??
oh boy how "simple" was the good old time
i think today´s UO is way much tooooooo complicated for the most of "classics"


LOL,more LOL,classic :coco: :wall:

:popcorn:
 
O

Old Man of UO

Guest
Duping gold wasn't that big of an issue back then...What could you buy with all your duped gold? Not much...GM armor... vanq/invul items when people did sell them... but guess what? Those items hardly EVER came out unless it was server down wars when the people knew they wouldn't lose that item.

So what was the point of duping anyways?

So having an anvil in your pack is worse than being able to move 2x faster than your opponent, walk over bagballs/stumps/gravestones, insta cure yourself, chug pots while equipped with a bow, not losing ANYTHING but maybe a few gold when you die...

Being able to mine ore and craft stuff with an anvil in your pack seems rather small compared to all the lameness in current UO.

Don't try to argue that there would be duping in a classic server, sure there would, but it doesn't really hurt the economy/game like it does today where you find tons of val/horned/heartwood runics all over the place.

Rich, if this thread bores you, don't read it. Isn't it time for your fish n' chips anyways?
And the other PvP cheats that exited at that time? Those weren't a problem? You couldn't have been playing at that time if you didn't encounter those and didn't think there was a problem. You forgot to try countering that point.

My point was, CORRECTUO was trying to say that cheating and duping wasn't an issue with the so called "classic" shards... I was just pointing out that it was and has existed from the start.
 

Tek

Seasoned Veteran
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Kaleb - Thanks for the charts, I was just looking for that information.
 
T

Turdnugget

Guest
Old Man, what PvP cheats/exploits are you talking about?

I've played since 97/98 and have always been an avid PvPer... these cheats you speak of must not have been anything comparable to today because I could hold my own w/just about anyone. Today is a different story...

Please elaborate what cheats these are, as I'm unaware of what they are...If I encountered them I'm not sure what it could have been. People dropped just the same to me back then.
 

kelmo

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Old Man, what PvP cheats/exploits are you talking about?

I've played since 97/98 and have always been an avid PvPer... these cheats you speak of must not have been anything comparable to today because I could hold my own w/just about anyone. Today is a different story...

Please elaborate what cheats these are, as I'm unaware of what they are...If I encountered them I'm not sure what it could have been. People dropped just the same to me back then.

*shakes head* Let's not go there...
 
T

Turdnugget

Guest
I'm just curious what he's referring to kelmo. Not trying to get this off topic, but he thinks that i'm dodging the point of cheats in PvP in the classic days... I just dunno wtf he's talking about :(
 
O

Old Man of UO

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Ya... I have to agree with Kelmo... that isn't the point of this thread anyway.
 

kelmo

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*chuckles* Stealth edit? We do not discuss specific cheating apps on Stratics.
 

Kaleb

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And as for them not being able to make a classic server, well gee, there seem to be dozens of independant programers out there who have access to significantly less resources than EA/Mythic, yet they see to be able to set up and maintain free servers with relative ease. You mean to tell me that the EA/Mythic devs are less skilled and have less resources than some independant programer working alone? Wow, thats sad for EA.
Hahha thats so true it made me laugh.


BUUUZZZZ! Wrong again. The majority of old school players will agree that a T2A server would be the best choice when it comes to a classic server.
Alot would also agree on UO:R systems pretty much Pre-AOS and just one ruleset.


Well, no one is saying that you'd have to play the classic server, now are they? You can stay on your item slave shards and leave those of us who do want for the true UO to enjoy our era.

All of the naysayers to the Classic servers idea are afraid. They know that if classic servers were instituted that the "regular" servers would clear out even more and there would be no one to show off their precious neon freak gear to and act all l33t around. Nor would there be anyone around to charge 10 million gold for a freaking artifact. No, sorry, the economy on the classic server would be stable. Sta-ble. You know, as in, it actually works. I know the word stable hasnt been used to describe anything in UO for a very long time, and the concept of a fair and open economy may frighten you, but its true.

The bottom line is, the devs have nothing to lose by putting out some classic servers. It worked for DAoC after Mythic jacked that game up. It would be the saving grace UO needs to get its long lost players to return.
That is real true Why are the best items for PvP worth so much? Is it maybe the fact that a pvper is willing to pay any price to get that edge? I feel most the people who dont want it to happen are scared that if a shard were made alot of the pvpers would leave the normal shards and thier pixels wouldnt be worth as much.
 

ColterDC

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Make whatever shard type you want---the current version, SP, a classic shard of any era/type. Whatever type you can dream of....

If EA is running it, the shard will suck. :wall:

Either from **** poor management/customer service or a complete lack of in-game maintenance (cheats, bugs, etc)


Show me a shard where speedhackers, dupers, scripters, unattended resource bots/gold farmers and hackers don't dominate the game. Where the staff makes frequent updates, quickly squashes game breaking bugs/exploits and has fun, fair, and engaging things to do with your game time.

That's a shard I would be interested in playing.

:postcount:
 
T

Thangorodrim

Guest
I would like to just say to those that are so dead set against this, that I wish you could understand why some of us older UO players feel that we were robbed of something that we had before UO:R and AoS.
I agree on the loss.

Unfortunately, you cannot go back.

Move on.
 
B

Beldon

Guest
So what is it about Siege that makes it so horribly unacceptable to all you people who keep clamoring for a "classic shard"?
- Age of Shadows item properties
- Factions
- Ruined economy...not as bad as the regular shards, but still hyper-inflated
- Neon colors
- Customizable housing
- New skills
- New land masses
- One character per account
- "Advanced" NPC purchasing system
- Soulstones

There are other things. Siege has PvP, but it is not the same as the classic UO of the Second Age era. And it shouldn't be. Siege, like all the other shards, has evolved in a different direction than a classic shard would.
So if it is not exactly what you want then you do not want it. No point in even bothering to look at the possibility of doing it, is there?
 
M

Mattitracks

Guest
So what is it about Siege that makes it so horribly unacceptable to all you people who keep clamoring for a "classic shard"?
- Age of Shadows item properties
- Factions
- Ruined economy...not as bad as the regular shards, but still hyper-inflated
- Neon colors
- Customizable housing
- New skills
- New land masses
- One character per account
- "Advanced" NPC purchasing system
- Soulstones

There are other things. Siege has PvP, but it is not the same as the classic UO of the Second Age era. And it shouldn't be. Siege, like all the other shards, has evolved in a different direction than a classic shard would.
So if it is not exactly what you want then you do not want it. No point in even bothering to look at the possibility of doing it, is there?
:confused:
 
A

Azaroth Dragon

Guest
I voted yes.

I would have voted "Yes... but it depends heavily on execution from developers, the economy, the expectations of both EA/Mythic and the players, the decisions EA is going to make in the near future sparked by recent events, and everything that happens AFTER the classic shard goes up".

But there was no option for that, so let me explain.

First, let's run through one of the most basic truths of the situation:

The population of Ultima Online is declining. It will very likely continue to do so.

Now, this has plenty of implications. Some affect the discussion at hand in the short term, and some in the long term. Others, both.

But short term, what this means is that the crew working on Ultima Online isn't 75 strong. It also means that it's very unlikely that there are going to be many more hires any time soon. You simply can't justify it logically to EA beancounters.

In fact, Mythic recently laid off 21 customer service employees, half of their QA, and all of their playtesting group. That means the likelyhood of a dedicated team moving onto a "classic shard" project is basically nil. In fact, if I remember correctly, Runesaber took Siege on as his own pet project and did it in his own time - so that's how that got done - and that was during the height of UO's popularity, when the ability to get more people hired, by the team lead no less, was probably much increased over what it is today. Because of that, people WOULD have to be taken from work on production shards, at least partially and temporarily.

That's pretty unlikely for a couple of reasons. One being that, you know, these guys are actually probably kinda busy. On things they've designed themselves, and ideas they think are going to be good for UO.

The other being that the players who are paying (and I'm on Stratics, so that's you guys) are, you know, /paying/. If you're paying, it doesn't matter if you want a classic shard. You're paying. If you're paying and playing and you DON'T want a classic shard, it might very well upset you that resources (however potentially little) have been redirected from things that are designed to make YOU happy. So that does matter.

So at what point is it an intelligent policy to take a shot at former players at the risk of potentially upsetting your current players? At what point do you chase possible dollars when you may be upsetting the people giving you real dollars?

Well, one MIGHT argue that point is now. One might.

Here's why.

The population of Ultima Online is declining. It will very likely continue to do so.

This is significant because subscriptions are /already/ at a level that EA finds unnacceptable. Mark Jacobs can be quoted as saying that EA tried to shut UO down in 2006. Now, Mr. Jacobs is a smart guy with a law degree - so I'm sure he convinced them real nice when he made his case for EA to hand UO over to Mythic, give it more time, invest in UO:KR, etc.

Regardless of how well the man argues his cases, we've got extenuating circumstances. Plenty of them, actually.

EA is laying people off. UO:KR was a substantial investment and failed to deliver any significant impact on subscriptions. Warhammer recently closed 40 servers.

Well, we can call that the big three, anyway. It's enough to talk about for a moment.

Now, the judge going ahead and deciding on the death penalty for such a respected elder of the community would be quite surprising, I think we could all agree. But it would have surprised the hell out of all of us in 2006, too. So given all of these problems, how likely is it that EA has Mythic in their crosshairs - and how would the aging Ultima Online be affected if it were?

We're talking about a couple of things here. Both your continued enjoyment playing Ultima Online, and the jobs of the people who may be affected. How long are both of those things really going to be around following the current course and in this economy? Brushing things like this off because UO has never been shut down before is a little nonsensical at this point.

Here's where putting aside short term selfishness and looking out for the long term health of the game comes in. Even if just for a few moments.

Whatever you can do to add subscriptions is good. Especially if they come in somewhat significant numbers. You may disagree with me entirely, but I don't think another expansion of the type that hasn't really captured any attention outside of the UO community is suddenly going to create any type of massive, or even moderate, turnaround. A lot of current users will purchase it however, so you can count on UO being alive for that long.

But.. how long?

I can only assure you of one thing:

Not long.

Get your arms in the air about UO "doomsaying", but outside of the (very small) UO community, UO has been dead a good long while. Again, 2006. Outside of Stratics and a couple of other small communities, not many people would have been very surprised - and even less would be talking about the event right now.

But don't get your arms up too high, because I actually mean a couple things. In fact, anyone that hates the first thing I say in this entire post will almost always get mildly giddy about the second thing I say. It may or may not be intentionally structured that way so all of you mushheads pay attention. Ahem.

Anyway:

It's not all good news, however - and that's either way you look at it.

A classic shard is one way to guarantee some offspec attention to Ultima Online. It'll create a splash.

"So, it'll be successful?"

Absolutely. Yes. Affirmative. Damn straight. Count your chickens, farmer John. So on.

In fact, I (as in me, personally, the guy typing this) could erect a classic free shard this second and have at least a thousand concurrent users playing twenty four hours a day. This is fact, and can be demonstrated at any time.

Would it be as successful as it would have been four or five years ago? Well.. probably not. But that doesn't make it a bad idea.


This does:


The Element, and Being Told "No"


Grab some old code or fake it, that's your choice. But throw a classic server up just like that, and what you've got are PROBLEMS.

For one, you attract "The Element". Or, to be blunt, "the jerks". And that's not really being very blunt.

This is a simple matter of throwing a PvP+, full loot world at a bunch of hungry wolves that have been starving for years and years.

That's a problem for the classic shards themselves, and there would be some spillover into the general community (such as these forums). But your home shards would be relatively unaffected. Unless the strategy were effective and players started siphoning onto the production shards. That'd be a good thing, believe it or not.

One interesting thing to note is the effect that Darkfall might have on this situation.

I don't believe for a second that Darkfall will have any kind of widespread or long term success. But it has a loyal base of fanboys that can see no wrong in the incredible pool of flaws that is the game and the company running it.

What's interesting about that is that, while you may potentially decrease the userbase for a classic server or set of classic servers, you very likely also increase the ratio of serious jerks to regular players that you're inviting back to your community. Darkfall unapologetically and very unintelligently purposefully markets itself to jerks, scammers, PKers, etc. A certain amount of those people will be happy with that game - for a while, at least.

The jerks aren't necessarily our target market here, because they don't have to be. Our target market are former UO players who enjoyed UO the way it was many years ago.

There are a lot of people who enjoyed classic Ultima Online that aren't jerks, scammers, PKs, etc. Dor, Morgana, and others on this forum and in this very thread are exactly that type of person.

Of course, some of the people you attract aren't the only problems.

EasyUO, for example, must absolutely be eradicated before any type of project like this were to go live. This requires that you not only find a way to detect EasyUO, but that you actually spend significant amounts of CS resources enforcing your rules. Not impossible, because we did both on IPY to some effect, although our particular method for detecting the program was fixed by its creator after we decided to let him know about it in good faith, believing his promise that he'd provide us with a legitimate way to detect the program for our shard. Obviously a mistake, but the scenario proves two things - EasyUO can be detected if you work hard enough at the problem with smart enough people, and a fool and his golden ticket to a fair UO shard are soon parted. Find the solution and let it be known that you have it, keep it a secret, ban mofos. Fin.

Sooner or later, given an effective enough and very dedicated anti-cheating GM squad, people stop trying to use the program in droves.

I also hear that speedhacking is a problem on EA servers. Not an incredibly difficult thing to detect OR prevent, so I'm not exactly sure why it's going on. But I'll leave that alone, aside from saying that all cheating must very simply end before a classic server goes live. Because everyone and their dog will exploit known cheats to the fullest extent they possibly can, and everything about the shard will suffer. PvP, the economy, everything. And it will fail. Quickly. You will have wasted your time.

A good classic shard is a delicate balance of many factors. Allowing EasyUO, speedhacking, or anything else of the sort will kill it promptly.

FAILING any sort of good detection or prevention, this shard will require additional GM support to diligently follow up on reports of cheating. This is even more difficult, because it'll likely cost MANY more man hours in the end, and without known detection in place for programs more players will be enticed into using them. The deterrent would have to be swift and decisive action against the accounts. In turn this will cause a host of problems on its own.

As my security guy on IPY (a lifelong griefer, who now happens to be the GM of Goonfleet on EvE) once said to me - "Griefers are essentially huge nerds who don't like being told no."

When you start banning them, they tend to cause... well, as many problems as they can possibly cause. I hope your DDOS mitigation is strong, and your developers enjoy being e-stalked. My recommendations regarding that particular mess is an entirely different discussion.

Sounds pretty bad, doesn't it?

A classic shard is a delicate flower, and a lot of the people who want one really only want one so they can wreck it. Kind of like that sociopathical kid who spends hours building a sandcastle just so he can stomp it and feel powerful for a minute. Of course, he then cries because his sandcastle somehow got ruined. But no lesson is learned, and don't try to teach one because you're wasting your time.

This is ONE of the things you're dealing with when you invoke The Element, so get used to it.

Fortunately I think this problem will be mitigated by the release of things like Darkfall and Mortal Online, two games specifically (much like Shadowbane) attempting to attract the attention of these guys. It's also always been my opinion that the ratio of good players to jerks and griefers would significantly improve on EA servers, where a more diversified playerbase would be pulled from the population. On free servers, you get a lot of free server players. A lot of people who are currently playing on EA servers, or would be attracted to an EA classic server, just simply won't play.

It can also be difficult to track down and ban offenders (and keep them banned) when accounts are free. Having personal information and credit card numbers is a huge tool against cheating - or at least a really big step up from not having them. You wouldn't really believe how big a step, either. Regardless of stolen credit cards and such, it gives you a great head start that people operating free servers don't enjoy.

The (Golden) Smoking Gun..

or..
You might hurt yourself diving into the shallow end of the pool, because you're not four feet tall anymore.


Now, some of you might know where I'm going with this. Others might not. For those of you who aren't sure, I'm going to make a major, ground-shaking announcement:

Classic UO was shallow.

There, it's been said.

Looking back, it's somewhat hard to understand that statement. You had more than enough to do, and besides, the game is a damn sandbox, Az, and I don't need your stupid WoWish themepark rides to keep me happy.

Correct. If it's 1999.

But I've sat on both sides of the table, and while I understand how UO is looked back on - I also have an understanding of what it's like when affected by modern situations, held up against modern MMOs, and the effect is both largely invisble to players and devastating to the game.

See, the thing about playing online games is that, in general, you play when you're happy with it. You leave when you're bored. If you're generally happy but somewhat angry, you might pancake on the forums or leave feedback. But if you're bored, you just drift off. In a way, it's smarter to keep people stimulated by being mildly pissed off about things (See WoW and their constant and often illogical nerf and buff cycle - very obviously and often just for the sake of nerfing and buffing, changing things up, throwing players off, making them respec, etc) than to simply let things sit and grow stale, inviting boredom.

Problem is, Classic Shardies DEMAND things remain the same. If you change things up, you've ruined their classic shard.

Check.

Unfortunately, as it is, "Classic UO" has a real problem.

Everyone has been there, done that.

For the majority, and especially for the PvPers, the game has degraded to what I like to call "Quake With Swords".

Here's how you play in a nutshell:

Log in.

-(EasyUO) Tailor/Lumberjack/Whatever up a bunch of gold.
- Macro up your tankmage's skills.
- Pwn.

It's a three step program and the dropout rate is high. Follow all of the advice I've outlined in this post to the letter (and sit through my four hour powerpoint presentation on How Not To **** Up A Classic Shard By Doing A Bunch Of **** You Didn't Know Was Wrong), and you've earned yourself an honorable death after about... 10-14 months. Good work, you've now exhausted every possibility that may have even arisen from the attention you've gained and lost.

Now, Morgana will play this game differently. Dor, will play this game differently. But for all of the Morganas and Dors you'll attract, you still can't escape the fact that a solid majority of the people who are going to log into this shard will follow the Tailor/Macro/Pwn pattern and burn out very quickly.

It's not an arguable point. I've watched it.

Mate.

Game over, right?

Well, as UO circa '97-'00 or so exists in our minds, it's at a disadvantage. Not only is the game designed as a sandbox with an array of toys for us to play with that we've LONG since worn out for the most part, but it exists as an evolution stalled in time.

All MMOs evolve. They have to. Just for the sake of evolving, an online world must change. If not, the worst kind of player dissatisfaction -- boredom -- sets in.

Because many of us feel that UO evolved in the wrong direction, what we love is left stillborn. It hasn't had the benefit of ten years of evolution in the direction we'd have preferred.


A Fork In The Road, And Things Left Unsaid... It's All A Little More Complicated Than It Seems

The most basic problems of a classic shard are intrinsic to its nature and prevent it from being a long term success. If for no other reason, I still believe one should exist for the people who would stick around long term - those that love Ultima Online.

Since we all know that ain't gonna happen, here's my advice:

A Classic UO shard will, and I apologize to all of the designers, programmers, producers, et cetera that have worked on the many more recent expansions, garner more attention that UO has seen in many, many years. The problem is that, with a LOT of hard work, the servers (And I very truly believe there'd have to be more than one, even at this point) will have a bustling population for about a year and a half or less.

This isn't simply checkmate.

The attention needs to be used as an opportunity FOR long term success (that's dollars, folks). In the end, things never work out to being as simple as they might seem, and this is one of those occasions. It's my personal opinion that just throwing up a classic server will make a much larger short term impact on account numbers than long term.

What can you do with that attention.

Well, I hesitate to spill my guts here because EA isn't handing me a cheque, and I've seen absolutely no evidence of why I should help them for free.

But I think it's easy enough to figure out, and this post is long enough at this point. Plus, the best surprises shouldn't be spoiled. They don't have the same effect that way. Time them carefully.

Besides, I'm getting dangerously close to devoting my time to proving another point to this company.


I consider this an open letter to EA/Mythic as well as to the fans of Ultima Online, past and present. Use it however you want.

Just please don't argue over it, or attempt to take some of it out of context and rub noses in it. If you do, you're likely not fully understanding what was said, and especially not the points I'm making.

In the end, nobody is right and nobody is wrong. It's all a little more complicated than it seems.

But in the end, I voted yes.

That's because with a lot of passion and a lot of hard work, something like this could be a pretty big success not only for the people who would directly enjoy it - but for Ultima Online itself, and everyone who wants to keep it rolling into the future.

My advice?

Do it, do it right, capitalize properly on the attention and don't just let it fade away.
 
A

AesSedai

Guest
- Good job of bringing up several of the finer points as to why a Classic Shard would be very difficult to properly attend to & could realistically fail in the short-term if certain parameters were not met.
You did say there would need to be more GM attention & that illegal programs would have to be dealt with. Yet that has been said (& I feel necessary) for production UO for years, and that current version of UO has continued to suffer because of them for as many years.
Btw, it was stated that the reason Mythic let those people go was because of the natural evolution of Warhammer going live and therefore less of those employees were needed; and that makes a lot of sense, at least to me. x: And I forgot: we just got an old dev., Wilki, back within the last few weeks. So, they have been hiring for UO since those layoffs.

As well, you did write-up a nice post, so I hope you will remove any specific mention of free shards and illegal 3rd party programs, because it is against the Stratics rules to mention such and your post may very will be erased if you do not comply before someone reports it or someone takes the time to read it.
Nice post though, and I hope you will heed my advice if you happen to read this.
As I've said before: if resources were abundant I would welcome a pre:x shard; but I'd prefer to see more GMs and anti-cheat mechanisms on production before they ever consider maintaining any retro shards (which I believe you also agreed that at least half of my preferences were a necessity, prior to any classic shards' re-birth). Yeah it's a bit selfish, I'll admit. But I believe that would benefit UO's overall continued evolution best; at least until resources are abundant enough to fix what is -and- make what else could be, or could be again.
 
S

slavoie

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This thread has more views and post then most Sticky ones....

Anybody want a sticky sandwich?
 

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
- Good job of bringing up several of the finer points as to why a Classic Shard would be very difficult to properly attend to & could realistically fail in the short-term if certain parameters were not met.
You did say there would need to be more GM attention & that illegal programs would have to be dealt with. Yet that has been said (& I feel necessary) for production UO for years, and that current version of UO has continued to suffer because of them for as many years.
Btw, it was stated that the reason Mythic let those people go was because of the natural evolution of Warhammer going live and therefore less of those employees were needed; and that makes a lot of sense, at least to me. x: And I forgot: we just got an old dev., Wilki, back within the last few weeks. So, they have been hiring for UO since those layoffs.

As well, you did write-up a nice post, so I hope you will remove any specific mention of free shards and illegal 3rd party programs, because it is against the Stratics rules to mention such and your post may very will be erased if you do not comply before someone reports it or someone takes the time to read it.
Nice post though, and I hope you will heed my advice if you happen to read this.
As I've said before: if resources were abundant I would welcome a pre:x shard; but I'd prefer to see more GMs and anti-cheat mechanisms on production before they ever consider maintaining any retro shards (which I believe you also agreed that at least half of my preferences were a necessity, prior to any classic shards' re-birth). Yeah it's a bit selfish, I'll admit. But I believe that would benefit UO's overall continued evolution best; at least until resources are abundant enough to fix what is -and- make what else could be, or could be again.
What AeSedai said.

And what Azaroth said, too.

Both have excellent points, IMO.
 

Corpse

Seasoned Veteran
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Stratics Legend
I want to know WHY the hell people object to a classic shard?

Evidently you wont be playing it if you don't want it, and chances are that you wont be on agreeable terms with anyone that will, so why do you even care?

How does it effect you in the slightest bit if there is a new shard?

Going to take all Devs time up and left you forgotten? Hardly, everything needed in that server has already been made, and it wont exactly need "updating".

This was a moronic poll, giving the option to say "No" is a waste of time for the thread will indefinitely be overrun with Trammel orientated players objecting to any special treatment to others.
My thoughts exactly.
 

Harlequin

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Great post Azaroth! Very well balanced from several different angles. Just had to make a post to say that :D

I was wondering who rez'd the thread. Great to know it's someone that has run a free shard and knows exactly what's it's like as a player and as an admin.



Az also mentioned the jerks and the wolves without reserve. This is notable - cheats/bugs are lines of codes on a server that players are confident the devs can fix. But only companies/people that has run any public game server before will understand that there will always be players that are simply jerks/griefers/starved wolves/cheaters and how to deal with the "people" aspect of it. The more successful free/paid non-EA shards are those that crack down hard on cheats.

The most effective way, besides having a cheat-invulnerable ironclad coding (impossible), is a GM team that is seen swiftly responding/enforcing punishment on cheaters. And yes, this will need to be done on the regular shards first. As in now. Today. This minute.

As for implementing the classic shard, even when they have gotten the green light, a classic shard is going to be realized only somewhere down the road. As in next year (or years), after the release of SA, when they have the resources to even start looking into it and to gather more information. They are not going to clobber up a classic shard over this weekend and put it into the production environment without a better study/prototyping. That's an invitation to disaster.

Another thing Az mentioned - this will really create alot of hype among the ex UO players. Alot of them will give it a whirl again. Half of them might leave after a few months. However, with the hype generated, this would potentially bring even more new life into UO (ones that have never played UO before). A portion of these new and ex players will likely try out the other shards and perhaps find that it's not that bad afterall. This brings to mind another subject - how to improve the new player experience, but that's another thread already in the stickies.

A good time to introduce a classic shard might be when the 3rd restock of the wildly successful SA boxes starts shipping to refill sold-out SA shelves globally. Ok, maybe a bit too optimistic, but you never know!

That should allow them to boost up the waning (by then) SA advertising campaign with a second whammy. Most importantly - the publicity garnered needs to be used for long term success. There are many ways, but mainly - as a draw to the production shards. The bread and butter shards.

Looking at the player-run shards out there, UO definitely isn't dying or on life support. It's just lacking publicity.
 
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