Do You Want A Classic Shard??

[AesSedai]

Considering some armchair dev can make one "from their basement" and have it run better then EA's past version. Wouldnt/shouldnt The "PROS" be able to do it faster and less manpower? If not EA better do some hireing.

- No, as the two are dissimilar & the basement devs. don't have to account for the paid subscribers like EA/Mythic must.

...My main contention is that after speaking with Fertbert (one of the original Devs on UO, as you are well aware) at a Meet Up, and specifically asking him about this very topic, he plainly, and without hesitation told me the exact things that you have been told all along; It would be a nightmare to go back through all of the old code, and then present a polished, and sale able product (Key Word - Sale able...to Paying Customers), while doing expansions, and then maintain 2 (or three, with Siege and Mugen in it) different sets of code for the different rule sets...you get the picture.

I am not making it up. It was a 15 minute chat. I know what I heard the guy say. I am not embellishing, or enhancing to suit my story. He said it, plain as day...

- You [Surgeries] remind me of a thing or three:

1. Fertbert. He and his wife are very wise, good people.
2. I have also spoken with a few devs. over the years myself, about this very subject, who have informed me that it would be very resource intensive to do a '~classic flashback'. UO does not necessarily = Daoc in this regard. Maybe things have changed recently to make it more feasible; who knows...

 

[Amren]

I'm curious and hope some of you that voted in favor of a classic shard will humor me a bit.

If you somehow got your wish and EA created a "classic shard" or two, what kind of characters would you make initially and what roles would they play? What would you spend your playing time doing in the first month? What would you hope to be doing in-game after six months and after a year? Who would you personally reach out to and ask them to come join you in playing on the classic shard?

Id make a pre-casting-hally-whacking-tank-mage.
Second character would be a smith/miner to supply my dude with plate armor and Halberds (the only weapons at the time that really were worth using that were not magic)

After that id spend my days looting people and their houses because I could. House lock downs ruined house looting.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

...My main contention is that after speaking with Fertbert (one of the original Devs on UO, as you are well aware) at a Meet Up, and specifically asking him about this very topic, he plainly, and without hesitation told me the exact things that you have been told all along; It would be a nightmare to go back through all of the old code, and then present a polished, and sale able product (Key Word - Sale able...to Paying Customers), while doing expansions, and then maintain 2 (or three, with Siege and Mugen in it) different sets of code for the different rule sets...you get the picture.

I am not making it up. It was a 15 minute chat. I know what I heard the guy say. I am not embellishing, or enhancing to suit my story. He said it, plain as day...

I could ask anyone, at almost any job...


...would you like to take on some extra work?


Do you know what their reply would be? (assuming they are not porn stars)


No.


Of course a developer would say..."No, its too much work!"


That's like asking the person bagging your groceries if they want to individually bag each and every item!


Duh!


*Also...what old code? I thought the story was that they didn't have the "old code". What is up with that?

 

[AesSedai]

- Food & Hockey are calling
Maybe I'll be able to get back and read your response later on Morgana.
Upon a brief skim, all I can say is that I'm not at all basing my decision on fear of a classic shard's success; but I am basing it on other fears, if that's the term you like to use, regarding the future success and continued evolution of UO. And 'if it fails it fails'... I wouldn't consider it as simple as that... at all. Those were just the two buzz terms I glanced at. Like I said, I'll try to give it a better read later on.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Id make a pre-casting-hally-whacking-tank-mage.
Second character would be a smith/miner to supply my dude with plate armor and Halberds (the only weapons at the time that really were worth using that were not magic)

Katanas were also good, for those that could use them properly.

 

[Kaleb]

Funny you should mention that...because I told several people, as UO:R launched that UO was jumping the proverbial Shark.

Do you remember happened to Happy Days after the shark was jumped?

The viewership declined...rapidly.

Take a look at what has happened to UO since that shark was jumped.

Players---approx 250,000

Players ----

Players----

Players----

Players----

Players----approx 50,000

Most seem to forget how full their servers were during 2nd age and how hard it was to get a house, How many people became 2 account owners for the launch of UO:R? Soon spots filled up there (tram) when AOS came out how many became 2 account owners again? how many of that 50k are in japan?

 

[Bc-]

I know I am.

Considering some armchair dev can make one "from their basement from his/her own pocket" and have it run better then EA's past version. Wouldnt/shouldnt The "PROS" be able to do it faster and less manpower? If not EA better do some hireing.

Kaleb some people just like to hear themselves talk, or in this case see themselves type


Obviously the client is still available in some form if these "renta-shards" are up and running. The major problem seems to be with keeping the code up to date, meaning they don't want to run two different games, essentially it should function along the same lines as the current UO client. I am not a code monkey, I can't whisk this up, but I have a hard time believe it CAN'T be done. Of course it will cost resources, anything gained has a cost. Anyone in this thread that thinks it can happen without taking resources away from the current game is only fooling themselves. If this was done it would be aimed at bringing back Ex-UO players, or bringing back subscriptions. Subscriptions gained, at a cost.

I believe the cost is what most of the people who voted No are unhappy about.

 

[Kaleb]

I have been at work all day

There were 10's of thousands of people who enjoyed that system we know this based off the subs before launch of UO:R, Granted alot went to tram but alot also stayed for a short while once all added events, content turned to favor one playstyle we lost alot of subs possibly in the thousands that did enjoy that playstyle (Siege was hoppin sp.launch-aos), if they were to announce that they are creating a "Classic Server" maby not 10's of thousands that have quit will come back but Im willing to bet a couple/few thousand(fell only). It is possible to have 10"S of thousands back if both a classic tram and fel (not coexisting on same server) were added.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

- Food & Hockey are calling

We both seem to share 3 loves in life! UO, Hockey, and Food!


What team are you rooting for, what are you eating, and get on board with the classic shard idea! Come and see how awesome UO used to be!

 

[Multani]

Should just delete Siege Perilous.

No one good at the game plays there.

 

[kelmo]

Should just delete Siege Perilous.

No one good at the game plays there.

Don't go there... This is not a "I hate Siege thread".

 

[AesSedai]

- I remember what happened when Happy Days jumped the shark (did you know the Fonz couldn't even ride a motorcycle? Hehe, heard it from him on Craig Ferguson this year).
Your turn: Remember the wild subscription swings (hemorrhaging) that were pointed out by UO Team before they put Trammel in & was the direct cause for its implementation?
Your player approximations are... approximations & guesstimations alone. Besides do you know why the huge swell in subscriptions just before Trammel? Because it was announced that Trammel was coming many months before it arrived... I vividly remember that fact.
If the Classic Shard happened, would the resources need to be invested to allow us to better police ourselves? So, even more resources necessary already?
I agree in that: Easy is not the answer. Just as I agree that unpoliced sheep v. wolf was not the answer.
The primary reason I fight it is because of the give&take of resources. Some of these Classic yearners might play current production UO, or Siege. Yet how many more would become UO haters if they tried a new shard only to see their efforts erased if it failed? That is why I say there's a lot more to it than 'if it fails it fails'...

You can throw out supposition....you can site this and that, but just like me, you have nothing to base your point of view on besides opinion.

- Yes we can

The only difference is, my opinion does not impede your style of play. You are left with exactly what you started with...a broken world that is losing players.

- Actually it seems like that shoe fits both of us quite well (especially if the pre:tram were phoenixed from the flame...)
- Which btw (x: in reference to: 'a broken world that is losing players'), is a part of why I am against this and want to see UO continue to evolve & improve, as close to one single unified force as possible, rather than settle back in its past & become more fragmented...

*Also...what old code? I thought the story was that they didn't have the "old code". What is up with that?

- I believe what Surgeries meant by that was the ~11-14 year old code that is UO legacy & nothing more. All of the legacy code is stacked upon the orginal, to a large extent. And yes some code was lost when Origin shutdown (x: err, more precisely: some backups were lost), from the tales I recall hearing; surely people remember the Origin wake and such. To break it back down to pre:x would be fairly intensive. Doable, but surely intensive.

... get on board with the classic shard idea! Come and see how awesome UO used to be!

- I was onboard & I remain onboard for UO:

(I've been rooting for the Stars for 15 years now Tonight I made this, with a bit less salt & more pepper, as per usual; so yummy. Aye, I still do love the UO too!)

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I am against this and want to see UO continue to evolve & improve, as close to one single unified force as possible, rather than settle back in its past & become more fragmented...

So...those of us that want a classic shard can F off...is that it?


You don't want it to become "fragmented" so you would rather see players, like myself, that have been paying from day one, just pack up and quit eh?


Good "unified force" you got there.


A true "unified force" would be one that would have a live and let live policy.

Again, you dodge the question as to what exactly you are afraid of when it comes to a classic shard...and don't throw out that same old tired resources crap.

From your own post, you seem to want more players to sign up to play UO, are you saying that you only want them to sign up and play if they are doing so under your desired ruleset??

- I believe what Surgeries meant by that was the ~11-14 year old code that is UO legacy & nothing more. All of the legacy code is stacked upon the orginal, to a large extent.

As it has been presented here by certain naysayers, that this code no longer exists...or so we are told, now you trot out this information.


Can you people pick a story and stick to it, please? You are flip flopping like a democrat on the Iraq War here.

(I've been rooting for the Stars for 15 years now

How about that?

I am a Hurricanes fan. Your team handed us our collective asses tonight...congrats on the win! *mumbles something about missing playoffs and Cam Ward*

 

[AesSedai]

- I can paint any picture I want too, if I misquote and fail to take into context all of what is being said. I'm trying my best to look at the big picture and consider what's best for UO, now & in the near year-ish future, as I'm sure you're also doing. So please don't take my opinion personally, or pull my statements out of context.

And I haven't dodged any question that relates to the subject: just because you want to ignore the ever-important 'resource'-variable does not mean I fear something more nor have dodged any subject-related question. Your turn: why did you dodge my question and fear replying to the fact, we've all been made well aware of, that I provided about the subscription rate peaks just prior to Trammel?

Don't get in a tizzy missy just because we disagree on this subject does not mean I want you to try to PK me on the message board, nor does it mean I have anything against you

 

[Seanen]

I vote yes... But I will admit that i love the newer warrior classes... so maybe something that keeps the sam/chiv/necro/ninja skills intact... I think basically the thing that made things so messed up was the artifact/rare stuff... Would'nt mind a shard where we were all on a more even playing field... One with regs, GM Exceptional weps/armor, no bonded dragons (or anything), no insurance, and maybe even some monsters that are smart enough to attack the squishy guy in the back sayin 'In Vas Mani' all the time instead of his pet dragon that does all the work... Just an idea from a guy that is freshly back to UO, havin trouble catching up to everyone's 'uber' gear and fully trained bonded uber-pets.... and millions upon millions of gold...

 

[AesSedai]

- Seanan I feel for you and all that are just coming back. Time has continued and UO continually evolved. Do a Stratics 'Search' for help and you will find much info. to help you get back on your feet. I too strive for a more 'level playing field'; yet I can see, and have offered ways to do that with what UO has evolved into... but, as with everything, it takes resources in order to be implemented. Time & Money ~ resources just don't grow on trees, and that's a problem for everyone of us, heh.
Classic was easier & simpler in some aspects. Trammel makes it easier & simpler in other ways. But there can be a way to make the newer complexities simpler and the ease of Trammel more challenging as well. But fragmenting things into more and more shards just drains more resources (yup, there's that word again) and prevents the unified (what? unified) improvement of UO even more; at least that's what I've noticed ~ imho.

 

[Kaleb]

- Seanan I feel for you and all that are just coming back. Time has continued and UO continually evolved. Do a Stratics 'Search' for help and you will find much info. to help you get back on your feet. I too strive for a more 'level playing field'; yet I can see, and have offered ways to do that with what UO has evolved into... but, as with everything, it takes resources in order to be implemented. Time & Money ~ resources just don't grow on trees, and that's a problem for everyone of us, heh.
Classic was easier & simpler in some aspects. Trammel makes it easier & simpler in other ways. But there can be a way to make the newer complexities simpler and the ease of Trammel more challenging as well. But fragmenting things into more and more shards just drains more resources (yup, there's that word again) and prevents the unified (what? unified) improvement of UO even more; at least that's what I've noticed ~ imho.

It takes money to make money, Like I said before It wouldnt cost a whole lot to create or run the server(s). Im also willing to bet the subs picked up for doing said project would more then enough pay for the systems. I feel SA is a waste of resources but you dont hear me tryin to shoot it down, WHY? Simple, I respect other playstyles and feel everyone should be able to play the UO they are happy with. And to say they dont have time to work on it is BS how did UXO get started before the project was picked up and then stopped? If someone can do it from their home with their own money then shurely the Mighty EA can afford to invest is some servers.

 

[Surgeries]

It takes money to make money, Like I said before It wouldnt cost a whole lot to create or run the server(s). Im also willing to bet the subs picked up for doing said project would more then enough pay for the systems. I feel SA is a waste of resources but you dont hear me tryin to shoot it down, WHY? Simple, I respect other playstyles and feel everyone should be able to play the UO they are happy with. And to say they dont have time to work on it is BS how did UXO get started before the project was picked up and then stopped? If someone can do it from their home with their own money then shurely the Mighty EA can afford to invest is some servers.

Exactly how many Developer Jobs have you held,for a Publicly Traded company, Kaleb?

Exactly how many Developer jobs do you suppose Morgana has held, altogether, at a Publicly Traded Company?

Exactly how many Developer jobs have any of these highly outspoken proponents held with ANY software company, while telling everyone how utterly easy it would be?

Don't ever ask a homeless person for their opinion on whether becoming a millionaire is "Do-able". The answer may hold such Doom & Gloom, that a person asking, may never even try.

Rather, ask a Millionaire.

I am no developer, and never have been. But Fertbert was. He loved his job. from what he told me. He was excited about the future of UO, even way back then.

So, until Draconi, or one of the actual Devs comes on here, and tells us all how much things have changed, and they are now able to deal with all of the bugs and issues that were the Legacy Code, that scared even one of the people that helped write it, your claims of "It would be easy" are highly myopic, and based on a highly predjudiced set of parameters, in my opinion.

It IS easy for a non-charging entity to put out whatever they want to, and close it down whenever they feel like it. They actually benefit, if the time requirement to run their server is too high.

Not so easy for a someone working at a Publicly Traded Company, when feeding your family might depend on the success or failure of the venture they are on.

It is very easy for someone like you and Morgana to tell us all about how easy it would be.

Now...let's combine that ("How utterly easy it would be"), with "Look at all the Money you would be making!!"...

Almost a Decade later...almost 10 years...either everyone at EA/Mythic etc. (as well as virtually every other company out there) has turned a completely blind eye to ALL of the overwhelming "Evidence" that you and a few others present every 15 minutes...

Or your assumptions are based on incorrect, flawed, skewed, and highly prejudiced viewpoints, it would appear, rather than actual facts.

After all, if what you and Morgana are saying is true, we would already have a Classic Shard, yeah?

Yeah. We would. But we don't. And there is a reason for that.

Although you folks will never likely understand the real reason(s), there IS a reason (or two or thirty) for No Classic Shard.

 

[Turdnugget]

It is very easy for someone like you and Morgana to tell us all about how easy it would be.

And here you are telling us how HARD and impossible it would be...

I am no developer, and never have been. But Fertbert was. He loved his job. from what he told me. He was excited about the future of UO, even way back then.

Sure Fert was a dev... but maybe a lazy Dev? Maybe he didn't want to go into details on what it would take? Maybe he didn't think there was enough interest to even bring it up and explain how or why it would or wouldn't be feasable to do.

Don't go and shoot down our hopes of wanting a classic server and us saying it should be rather easy when you yourself aren't a developer and don't know yourself, whether or not it would be easy or hard or worthwhile.

I'm sure, as has been stated, if all the previous subscribers to the old UO were to be asked if they'd come back to UO with a Classic shard, i'm sure dev's minds would change... but we haven't heard what they've said.

Sure would be nice to have someone from the DEV team to actually pop in here... here we've got 300+ replies, not one form a dev, yet when a DAMN plant is out of whack and not working properly they fix it right away, or when Siege vendor prices are too high, a dev replies and fixes...yet when there is SO much talk/want/concern about a classic server... we're left in the dust. wtf...

Don't ever ask a homeless person for their opinion on whether becoming a millionaire is "Do-able". The answer may hold such Doom & Gloom, that a person asking, may never even try.

I don't fully agree. I'm sure if you gave the homeless person the right tools and know how, they'd say 'oh hellz ya it's doable, I just gotta put my mind to it'. It just takes hard work and effort. Something that is obviously lacking in today's UO development as we see broken system after broken system, item after item.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Exactly how many Developer jobs do you suppose Morgana has held, altogether, at a Publicly Traded Company?

2 publicly traded, 1 non-publicly traded. Currently work as a network admin for a privately held software company that creates and supports client/server applications involving real time data.

I do not care for coding, but I can do it when I am required to. I know Java, C#, and .Net, as well as HTML and SQL.

I much prefer network administration however.

But none of this really has anything to do with this discussion.


If you really want to get into a nuts and bolts discussion about this, we can.

Odds are very high that the statement that the old code is gone is probably false. No company deploys code without backups...that is irresponsible. But, let us suppose that the code was written on top of, and modified to the point that it would be painstaking to go back and edit it down to the point that it would produce the desired effect. It might actually be better to take the current server code, and modify that in the form of turning things off, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel. Not being familiar with UO's server code, I cannot sit here and tell you exactly what needs to be done. But I would be willing to bet that most of the issues that those of us that want a classic shard have with the current game could be taken care of with simple toggles in the code.

Things like blocking access to all lands other than Britannia and T2A. Just don't have the other places as options on the moongates. There would be no runes to them, so how would anyone get there? The same for Trammel. All players start in Felucca, there are no moonstones, no runes to Trammel, and no moongate access. Problem solved.

I am not saying it would be easy. In fact, it sounds like a bit of a pain in the ass, but they have the resources (and the reason I do not like using that as a factor, is because it is not a static thing...by resources, I am assuming you mean man hours and payroll...these things are fluid, in that whatever project Mythic decides to undertake because a priority and is therefore not a waste of resources...even if you disagree with what they are working on) to do this, just like they have the resources to create yet another client that less than half the players in game will actually use.

But I don't hear any complaining about that. I don't hear anyone complaining about EA/Mythic "wasting resources" on this client, even though we won't use it. Why? Because some of us can actually think outside of ourselves for a moment, and we realize that having a choice in clients cannot be a bad thing.

If it were up to me...SA would be scrapped and all shards would be reverted to classic shards, but I would never actually advocate for those things to happen, because I know that it would alienate a large part of the playerbase.

So...you asked me a question, I answered it.

 

[Seanen]

I still have mixed feeling about the whole thing... I really like the safety of the town guards, but not being able to put use to skills like snooping and stealing that were built into the game is a shame... and as far as new stuff goes, more skills is always a plus in my book, and it's good to see more of that to come in SA... I dont even mind the new lands either, but UO has gone soft... People wouldn't be so opposed to a classic shard if they didn't sit around at the bank and hump their arties all day. If I'm at the bank and someone snoops my pack and takes my GM made war mace and 100gp it's an annoyance, but I'm not gonna cry about it. Does that make sense to anyone? I'm just throwin stuff out there...

 

[deadite]

...And to say they dont have time to work on it is BS how did UXO get started before the project was picked up and then stopped?...

You just found one of the 2 biggest problems with UO since its inception:

Huge money going towards UO related projects instead of going towards UO itself. Examples are UO2, UXO, and the "secret project". If all that dev time and money had been used on a new client, or an overhaul of the 2D client, we would have ended up with something much better than KR much earlier in the picture. EA threw money away with those projects, both time closing them with the explanation that they wanted to put more resources towards UO? Argh. Frustration!

Ah well.

 

[Tina Small]

People wouldn't be so opposed to a classic shard if they didn't sit around at the bank and hump their arties all day.

This.....this is what irritates me more than anything in these threads demanding that EA open up a classic shard. I'm sick and tired of so many of the posts that imply the majority of the people who play UO today are only interested in sitting at the bank and showing off their stuff. That is NOT the way I play nor is it how many of the folks I know play. I really resent hearing this kind of garbage statement over and over and over.

If some of you that want a classic shard so badly would quit posting things like this, you just might get a wee bit more sympathy here in U.Hall.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

This.....this is what irritates me more than anything in these threads demanding that EA open up a classic shard. I'm sick and tired of so many of the posts that imply the majority of the people who play UO today are only interested in sitting at the bank and showing off their stuff. That is NOT the way I play nor is it how many of the folks I know play. I really resent hearing this kind of garbage statement over and over and over.

If some of you that want a classic shard so badly would quit posting things like this, you just might get a wee bit more sympathy here in U.Hall.

I can understand that Tina. I think posts like that are knee-jerk reactions to the selfish nature that many against a classic shard exhibit.

Quite honestly, it does not matter what players on the current shards would or would not do, because this is not a discussion about changing the current shards.

But understand, when someone says something like this, it is no different than the people that believe all classic shard supporters are so because they want to go out and gank everyone they meet.

You and I have interacted in game, and you know as well as I do that I have my fair share of items and artifacts, but we both know that I am not a bank sitter either, so I definitely understand where you are coming from, and why you take offense to these remarks...because you are not one of those people either.

But just like I have to admit that there are a certain number of classic shard supporters that are so because they do indeed want to PK everyone they meet, so must you admit that there are people that bank sit all day to show off their arties.

If you want to see them, just go to Luna banks.

 

[Connor_Graham]

The only people that I EVER see sitting at the bank all day are PvP'rs that logged their chars in at server up to burn off the counts they got the night before. Not one other single player do I see parked there just to "show off".

I'm with Tina on this one.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Not one other single player do I see parked there just to "show off".

What shard are you on?

Come to Atlantic, I will introduce you several bank sitters. Many of them post here on Stratics. I will not name names, but they know who they are.

 

[HD2300]

...even if you disagree with what they are working on) to do this, just like they have the resources to create yet another client that less than half the players in game will actually use.

But I don't hear any complaining about that. I don't hear anyone complaining about EA/Mythic "wasting resources" on this client, even though we won't use it. Why? Because some of us can actually think outside of ourselves for a moment, and we realize that having a choice in clients cannot be a bad thing.

If it were up to me...SA would be scrapped and all shards would be reverted to classic shards, but I would never actually advocate for those things to happen, because I know that it would alienate a large part of the playerbase.

A lot of people have bitched about KR. OMG if they are going to do a new client, why not make it REAL 3D. And now they are going to turn 2.5D into 2.4D. Thats right, the graphics are going to be even worse. Maybe EA can sell the SA client to hospitals to treat drug overdose patients.

A real 3D UO client would really shake up the RPGMMO market. Devs sitting 10m away just did one for WAR. Mod the WAR client for UO. With a WAR-like 3D client and the UO brand you would have +1m subs. 100k at least would be pvpers.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

A lot of people have bitched about KR. OMG if they are going to do a new client, why not make it REAL 3D. And now they are going to turn 2.5D into 2.4D. Thats right, the graphics are going to be even worse. Maybe EA can sell the SA client to hospitals to treat drug overdose patients.

A real 3D UO client would really shake up the RPGMMO market. Devs sitting 10m away just did one for WAR. Mod the WAR client for UO. With a WAR-like 3D client and the UO brand you would have +1m subs. 100k at least would be pvpers.

I have no objection to that...as long as they keep 2D as an option.

 

[Seanen]

But just like I have to admit that there are a certain number of classic shard supporters that are so because they do indeed want to PK everyone they meet, so must you admit that there are people that bank sit all day to show off their arties.

If you want to see them, just go to Luna banks.

Trust me, I wasn't trying to stir up any trouble with anything I've said, we all just post based on our own experiences, and we all haven't seen the same stuff. We all want UO to survive, but we all want it to be something a little different from everyone else. It's tough, but that's why we can all give out our thoughts on prospects like classic shards. Some people think it's Tram and all the security and insurance rules that changed things, I personally think it was the items... doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong, just perspectives differ.

 

[Kaleb]

Exactly how many Developer Jobs have you held,for a Publicly Traded company, Kaleb?

Exactly how many Developer jobs do you suppose Morgana has held, altogether, at a Publicly Traded Company?

Exactly how many Developer jobs have any of these highly outspoken proponents held with ANY software company, while telling everyone how utterly easy it would be?

Don't ever ask a homeless person for their opinion on whether becoming a millionaire is "Do-able". The answer may hold such Doom & Gloom, that a person asking, may never even try.

Rather, ask a Millionaire.

I am no developer, and never have been. But Fertbert was. He loved his job. from what he told me. He was excited about the future of UO, even way back then.

So, until Draconi, or one of the actual Devs comes on here, and tells us all how much things have changed, and they are now able to deal with all of the bugs and issues that were the Legacy Code, that scared even one of the people that helped write it, your claims of "It would be easy" are highly myopic, and based on a highly predjudiced set of parameters, in my opinion.

It IS easy for a non-charging entity to put out whatever they want to, and close it down whenever they feel like it. They actually benefit, if the time requirement to run their server is too high.

Not so easy for a someone working at a Publicly Traded Company, when feeding your family might depend on the success or failure of the venture they are on.

It is very easy for someone like you and Morgana to tell us all about how easy it would be.

Now...let's combine that ("How utterly easy it would be"), with "Look at all the Money you would be making!!"...

Almost a Decade later...almost 10 years...either everyone at EA/Mythic etc. (as well as virtually every other company out there) has turned a completely blind eye to ALL of the overwhelming "Evidence" that you and a few others present every 15 minutes...

Or your assumptions are based on incorrect, flawed, skewed, and highly prejudiced viewpoints, it would appear, rather than actual facts.

After all, if what you and Morgana are saying is true, we would already have a Classic Shard, yeah?

Yeah. We would. But we don't. And there is a reason for that.

Although you folks will never likely understand the real reason(s), there IS a reason (or two or thirty) for No Classic Shard.

I own my own successful business in an economy thats hurting and im still doing well. fertbert was one of the devs who brought uo AOS of course he is going to say it cant be done it would be like saying his work was a failure.

 

[Surgeries]

And here you are telling us how HARD and impossible it would be...

I am not saying it's hard, Turd Nugget.

I said someone who Knows how hard it would actually be, told me, how hard He thought it would be...nay...Knew it would be.

You would have to show me where I said anything of the sort.

Sure Fert was a dev... but maybe a lazy Dev? Maybe he didn't want to go into details on what it would take? Maybe he didn't think there was enough interest to even bring it up and explain how or why it would or wouldn't be feasable to do.

Yeah maybe. Maybe EA never even knew that there was the group of people that posts every fifteen minutes, telling them how tens of thousands of people they know personally will come back and play UO, if they will just put up a Classic Shard. Because, fer sure, there are THOUSANDS of very poular Free Shards that PROVE that people love Classic UO, because at any given time (other than my one screenie) they are STUFFED. And not only that, but I have asked all 6500 that are logged on the FS I play, andf they all said they would gladly pay double normal fees just to play a Classic Shard, at EA, and they wouldn't even want to have any updates, or bug fixes. No lie.

And maybe it will rain Cheddar Cheese tonight, and Fertbert wasn't really a Dev...maybe he was really Lord Blackthorn, and maybe I am Lord British.

Did ya ever think of that, as you were formulating your rebuttal?

Jeezis.

Don't go and shoot down our hopes of wanting a classic server and us saying it should be rather easy when you yourself aren't a developer and don't know yourself, whether or not it would be easy or hard or worthwhile.

HINT: Fertbert is/was a Developer...he knows/knew these things.

All of the other Devs that have worked for UO...in the 11+ Years of it's existence, and in every single year, since 2000...guess what? Yep! All Devs!! Every one of them!!

And so...your logic says...they have to ALL be lazy people that have no idea just how friggin RICH they could all be, and how unbelievably SIMPLE it would be for them!!

So...I will say it again for the umpteenth billionth time, just for you:

You think it's worthwhile. We get that.

I think it may or may not be...never said for sure, one way or the other, as I can recall. In fact, I even offered the hope that if it COULD be done easily, and well, currently, and if it would help the game, I am for it.

Of course, you may have overlooked that. I only have said it like 3-5 times in this thread, so yeah...you may have missed it.

EA/Mythic, and virtually EVERY company out there that has put out a successful MMORPG doesn'thasn't feel/felt the same way you do.

What in the heck do the 8 of you know that those folks don't know, after all these years?

Thought of applying at EA? Or maybe the eight of you get together, pool your money, and start your own Brittania!! You could be the next Whiz Kids!!

Here's what I DO know: So far, virtually NO company, after EA introduced it, will offer Paying Customers what you folks say is the "Big Draw" for Classic UO...completely open PvP...with excessively few and far between exceptions to that fact, so either they are all idiots, or your market research is flawed, at best. No One Has.

I'm sure, as has been stated, if all the previous subscribers to the old UO were to be asked if they'd come back to UO with a Classic shard, i'm sure dev's minds would change... but we haven't heard what they've said.

Do you honestly believe that they have not evaluated this opportunity? A bunch?

Do you honestly believe that For Profit companies like Sony and EA would just intentionally turn a completely blind eye to ALL that potential for profit? Can you sit there with a straight face, and type "Yes"?

If so...LOL...just LOL.

Sure would be nice to have someone from the DEV team to actually pop in here... here we've got 300+ replies, not one form a dev, yet when a DAMN plant is out of whack and not working properly they fix it right away, or when Siege vendor prices are too high, a dev replies and fixes...yet when there is SO much talk/want/concern about a classic server... we're left in the dust. wtf...

That is probably the exact attitude that repels any type of willingness to jump in and help.

It certainly would for me.

But...OK...I will say it, yet again:

If it can be done efficiently, and it would help the game, I hope they can put together a Classic Server.

I don't fully agree. I'm sure if you gave the homeless person the right tools and know how, they'd say 'oh hellz ya it's doable, I just gotta put my mind to it'. It just takes hard work and effort. Something that is obviously lacking in today's UO development as we see broken system after broken system, item after item.

If you don't fully agree, you have homework to do.

"Birds of a Feather Flock Together"

"Your Attitude Determines Your Altitude"

I bet you don't fully agree with those, either?

Homeless people aren't usually homeless because they understand that they can do anything they put their minds to. Especially homeless people that have been homeless for a long time. The homeless people that understand that they can do whatever they put their minds to are never homeless long.

I may not be a Dev, but I do volunteer with the homeless, personally. If you don't do that, I will tell you that you really have your homework to do. If you do volunteer with the homeless, then you know exactly what I am talking about, which would then lead me to believe that you do not volunteer with, and spend time with homeless people much at all. Which of course, then, completely , or very close to completely discounts, your logic and reasoning, in your rebuttal.

So, since you aren't a Dev, and neither am I, I guess maybe you all better hope that Draconi, or one of the other Non-Lazy Smart Devs was serious about being able to put a Classic Shard together, as otherwise...who knows.

Based on history, holding of the breath in waiting could lead to OoOOoOOOOOOoooOoOO

 

[Surgeries]

I own my own successful business in an economy thats hurting and im still doing well.

Congratulations.

I will say, though, that offers little to no info on exactly how many Developer jobs you have held, in your life, with Publicly Traded companies, doing MMORPG (or any) game development, now does it, though, Kaleb?

I am pretty sure it doesn't.

So...I can't speak for anyone but me, but I can sure say I am excited to know Kaleb...how many...exactly?

fertbert was one of the devs who brought uo AOS of course he is going to say it cant be done it would be like saying his work was a failure.

He worked on UO when AOS came out. That much we know.

The rest of your post is absolute speculation, and frankly, pretty ridiculous. He never ever said it can't be done. Ever. He said that the amount of work to go back through every line of code to fix all of the bugs that would have existed at any moment in time (and since some of the changes made to the code along the way weren't properly "Notated" or whatever Programmers do, when they edit current code etc.then they wouldn't know, precisely, where they were in the Development schedule, to know what to fix, and what not to fix), would be staggering, and they may end up re-writing the whole thing. All the while, he felt, that there was no way that people would be happy, anyway, as they were trying to fix all the problems that came with AOS, etc...well...hopefully you get the idea.

No one ever said it would be impossible, that I talked to. And Fertbert, and every Dev I have spoken with about UO have really loved this game. They want the majority of the players to love the game like they do, from my experiences.

But they also know, you can't please all the people, all the time, and Money Talks...you know the rest.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So far, virtually NO company, after EA introduced it, will offer Paying Customers what you folks say is the "Big Draw" for Classic UO...completely open PvP...with excessively few and far between exceptions to that fact, so either they are all idiots, or your market research is flawed, at best. No One Has.

Actually, Mythic...the actual development studio for Ultima Online...offered their players a Classic Server in their other MMORG...Dark Age of Camelot.

It has been very successful.

Again...why does it frighten you so that Mythic may offer this to UO players? Just because it is offered, it does not mean you will be forced to play it.

But maybe you are right. Maybe EA/Mythic should just shout out a hearty F YOU to all of the old UO players, and further reduce their subscription base.

At some point, you people are going to realize that every single subscription counts...even ours.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

He said that the amount of work to go back through every line of code to fix all of the bugs that would have existed at any moment in time (and since some of the changes made to the code along the way weren't properly "Notated" or whatever Programmers do, when they edit current code etc.then they wouldn't know, precisely, where they were in the Development schedule, to know what to fix, and what not to fix), would be staggering, and they may end up re-writing the whole thing. All the while, he felt, that there was no way that people would be happy, anyway, as they were trying to fix all the problems that came with AOS, etc...well...hopefully you get the idea.

So you are basing your entire argument based on the word of a single code jockey that stood nothing to gain from the process.

I take it that you know little or next to nothing about coding.

Here's how it works:

You have a repository. When you are writing code, you check out code from the repository. As you change things, this is called versioning. You document things in-line, and you document changes outside of the code. When you check that code back into the repository, it generates docs...and rarely, does it replace previous versions with the current one.

There is no way in hell that Ultima Online, produced by a major software company, did not follow these procedures.

It sounds to me like you were basically lied to, and were just too ignorant to realize it...no offense.

No doubt there is sloppy code, and missing docs. Any project as large as UO is bound to have some hack work associated with it. But people get fired for checking in undocumented code. And I have every idea that the reason they don't drag out the old code, is because they have never felt compelled to do so.

Which is why I post here "every 15 minutes".

If you want to discuss things like coding and server development, I suggest you come to the table better prepared than you have so far.

 

[It Lives]

I vote no.

I would rather the team effort up fixing current game concerns and new content, rather than open avenues of old and limited game play.

I would be yaaa that is a katana *neat*.
Look brown leather *keen*.
Ooohh is that a black dye tub *Leeet*.

Look-----> a Corp Por chain scripted casting mage in a skirt that is pink. *checks gender*

 

[Tina Small]

Again...why does it frighten you so that Mythic may offer this to UO players? Just because it is offered, it does not mean you will be forced to play it.

Morgana, please don't forget how the poll question reads. It merely asks if someone wants a classic shard.

I believe you may be reading too much into the "no" answers when you assume that a person answered "no" because he or she is worried about something bad happening if EA decides to establish a classic shard or two.

And to be absolutely honest with you, it's getting tiresome seeing you ask this question over and over again. You burst onto the scene here in U.Hall just a couple of months ago and you just won't let up with this campaign. It seems to me that if you want to persist in using U.Hall as your preferred channel for getting the developers' attention on this issue, you might be better off rounding up and posting some solid evidence in favor of creating a classic shard, instead of resorting to trying to bully the rest of us into taking your side with your taunts of "What are you so afraid of?"

Something else that might help too is to spell out in much more detail how you and your cohorts plan to help populate a classic shard. We all know Mythic hasn't been big on marketing for UO and I truly doubt that's going to change, even for SA. So, what do you have to suggest in the way of how to get people to try out a new classic shard AND keep them playing? Got any suggestions on how to win over a 50-year old grandmother to give it a try? Although I've enjoyed factions a bit and a limited amount of PvP, none of my guildmates over the years have managed to convince me yet that playing UO with shaking hands and sitting on the edge of my chair the whole time is a good thing. In my mind, that comes way too close to the physiological state my teenager used to put me in on a regular basis. In other words, would playing on a classic shard speed up the sprouting of gray hairs? I've got enough of them already, thank you.

 

[Surgeries]

So you are basing your entire argument based on the word of a single code jockey that stood nothing to gain from the process.

I take it that you know little or next to nothing about coding.

Here's how it works:

I take it you know little or nothing about Deductive Reasoning...see...here is how it works:

When I say something like "I am no Developer", like I just did in a very recent post...one can safely Deduce that I know little or nothing about Coding and/or Coding Development. So...here is your Rock, Captain Obvious.

On the matter of me taking the word "Of one Code Jockey"...Since nearly 7 years have passed, since I spoke with Fertbert about this matter, and since there is not now, nor has been since I spoke to Fertbert about it, a Classic Shard, then one can fairly safely Deduce that not only was Fertbert of the mind that reviving really old Legacy code would not be worth the effort expended to do so (which, in and of itself, is a separate "If/Then" in the equation), but every single Developer, Producer, Bean Counter, etc. etc. etc. without exception, (except allegedly Draconi), has clearly either verbally, on these very forums (where of course you know the topic was Verboten for a while), or by their inaction, shown that they do not feel it is, a worthwhile effort, Expenditure to Return.

At the very least (and I am sure some Devs are for it, some against it...that isn't the point) the people that matter most..the Decision Makers, haven't been convinced in all these years, as well as virtually every other MMORPG out there that has lots and lots of Subscribers, that adding that element of play style to a game is worthwhile. There must be a reason for that.

That's how deduction works.

If you want to debate, you'll need to bring a little more than personal opinion, and no hard evidence, of even a circumstantial but provoking type, to the table, than you have thus far.

You have a repository. When you are writing code, you check out code from the repository. As you change things, this is called versioning. You document things in-line, and you document changes outside of the code. When you check that code back into the repository, it generates docs...and rarely, does it replace previous versions with the current one.

There is no way in hell that Ultima Online, produced by a major software company, did not follow these procedures.

It sounds to me like you were basically lied to, and were just too ignorant to realize it...no offense.

I could reply with something like:

And I guess you are just delusional, and don't know it.

No offense.

But that would be a personal attack, and I don't engage in those.

It's too bad you had to resort to them, to try and defend an indefensible position, it really is.

You know, you can get a thread locked like that.

You may want to edit that, to Keep the Dream Alive.

No doubt there is sloppy code, and missing docs. Any project as large as UO is bound to have some hack work associated with it. But people get fired for checking in undocumented code. And I have every idea that the reason they don't drag out the old code, is because they have never felt compelled to do so.

Yeah, like I said...they are all just completely oblivious to all the "Logic" you are presenting, I am guessing. Probably because they are all lazy, lying Developers, like Fertbert, eh, Morgana?

Which is why I post here "every 15 minutes".

If you want to discuss things like coding and server development, I suggest you come to the table better prepared than you have so far.

I am telling you what he said. I am not telling you I know coding. Or server development, for that matter. Nice try, though.

But you knew that. rolleyes:

Tell you what...just go apply at EA/Mythic with your knowledge, and expertise, and make it happen. You'd be the first Dev to do it, in all this time.

Then you could crown yourself Queen of Brittania.

The proof is in the pudding, and much can be gleaned from good objective filtering.

If you "Just Know" it will work, then I say Actions speak WAY louder than words...

Go get 'em!

 

[AesSedai]

- Morgana, I can try to search for the multiple developers that have stated the true situation about the lack of backups and extreme difficulty in bringing a pre:x shard back. But I fear our message boards lost their backup, just the same. Yeah, these things happen; especially with code that is well over 10, maybe closer to 15, years old, and was created long before many programming standards were widely accepted. Most all of our UO Devs., including Fertbert, truly love UO & truly care about their jobs, unlike what you suggested with:

That's like asking the person bagging your groceries if they want to individually bag each and every item!

- You said this in retaliation of Fertbert's true admonishments. I have to admit this upset me a bit; and it's the primary reason I replied to this thread again. He is an honest, genuine and stand-up person. He is a solid developer & several of them, including him, have even admitted additions they would have liked to have made to AoS. But guess what? Resources were too limited to be able to deliver what they could have & wanted to.

- If you have ever talked with any of them in person, or even had PM~ish conversations with them, then you would know that 99% are all about improving our UO in any method that is realistically feasible. I've seen the spark of happiness in many of their eyes as they think or talk about UO's potential... and if you think about it, it makes much sense, as: it almost requires that in order to put up with some of the negativity that the playerbase likes to consistently dole out & the limitations that the lack of resources available do enforce.
You try working with a billion plus lines of significantly undocumented spaghetti code & limited timelines sometime, and then come back and tell me that you know how easy it is to keep UO rolling nearly 24/7/365 by 12 years. I haven't done it, but I have sure heard about it; and it has been publicly discussed aplenty over the years. But guess what? Stratics lost backups just as UO has over their many years, so it is difficult to search/copy/paste the proof for you to read.

But hey, if things have changed / perhaps if the Gamebryo conversion has allowed them to make pre:x ~ Classic x happen easier & if they believe it is worthwhile, then I too would like to see it happen. But until I hear otherwise, my vote remains to be 'no', because I want to see UO continue to evolve & I haven't seen much evidence that devolving a game provides a major benefit (even Daoc - I've yet to see how they've improved by leaps and bounds since implementing classic servers. Didn't their/our head guy say something about games going into zombie mode, as he believed in and fought to keep UO rolling along, right about that same time?).

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You burst onto the scene here in U.Hall just a couple of months ago and you just won't let up with this campaign. It seems to me that if you want to persist in using U.Hall as your preferred channel for getting the developers' attention on this issue

Tina gets it.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I take it you know little or nothing about Deductive Reasoning...see...here is how it works

I deduced that you are talking out of your ass from what you post from here on../

When I say something like "I am no Developer", like I just did in a very recent post...one can safely Deduce that I know little or nothing about Coding and/or Coding Development. So...here is your Rock, Captain Obvious.

You were the one that opened this aspect of the discussion. Perhaps you should not attempt to operate from a false sense of superiority, when you have zero experience to back it up.

On the matter of me taking the word "Of one Code Jockey"...Since nearly 7 years have passed, since I spoke with Fertbert about this matter, and since there is not now, nor has been since I spoke to Fertbert about it, a Classic Shard, then one can fairly safely Deduce that not only was Fertbert of the mind that reviving really old Legacy code would not be worth the effort expended to do so (which, in and of itself, is a separate "If/Then" in the equation), but every single Developer, Producer, Bean Counter, etc. etc. etc. without exception, (except allegedly Draconi), has clearly either verbally, on these very forums (where of course you know the topic was Verboten for a while), or by their inaction, shown that they do not feel it is, a worthwhile effort, Expenditure to Return.

So you are arguing with seven year old information.

Got it.

And I guess you are just delusional, and don't know it.

No offense.

But that would be a personal attack, and I don't engage in those.

Your text posted here would indicate otherwise. Your smug approach to this has basically exploded in your face.

You know, you can get a thread locked like that.

Your original goal, no doubt...but I hope that the mods and admins here will see through your blatant attempt to derail the discussion with hyperbole and logical fallacies.

Yeah, like I said...they are all just completely oblivious to all the "Logic" you are presenting, I am guessing. Probably because they are all lazy, lying Developers, like Fertbert, eh, Morgana?

I never made the claim to know Fertbert, and don't care to. It was your name dropping that brought him into this discussion...nothing else.

I am telling you what he said. I am not telling you I know coding. Or server development, for that matter. Nice try, though.

Then why ask me my experience in these areas?

If you didn't want to discuss coding, you should not have brought it up.

Tell you what...just go apply at EA/Mythic with your knowledge, and expertise, and make it happen. You'd be the first Dev to do it, in all this time.

I have no desire to pursue a career in game development. It is unstable and the pay is not on par with legitimate development or administration jobs. No thanks.

Then you could crown yourself Queen of Brittania.

The proof is in the pudding, and much can be gleaned from good objective filtering.

If you "Just Know" it will work, then I say Actions speak WAY louder than words...

Go get 'em!

Sounds to me like you have no idea what you are talking about...and are spouting nothing but opinions backed by minor name dropping. For that matter, in my eyes, you have exposed yourself as nothing but an emotional troll that deserves nothing more than my indifference.

Good evening.

 

[HD2300]

 

[Tina Small]

You burst onto the scene here in U.Hall just a couple of months ago and you just won't let up with this campaign. It seems to me that if you want to persist in using U.Hall as your preferred channel for getting the developers' attention on this issue

Tina gets it.

Hmm, not sure what I got other than a headache.

Morgana, I have 99.9% confidence that AesSedai and Surgeries (as well as a couple of others) also see what I see in these threads asking for a classic shard. They actually probably see more in them than I do. They just react to it in their own way and based on their own, much longer history playing UO. I think you're pretty lucky you've had a chance to have this give-and-take kind of exchange with both of them. They don't do it all that often and I always enjoy reading it when they do.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Hmm, not sure what I got other than a headache.

Morgana, I have 99.9% confidence that AesSedai and Surgeries (as well as a couple of others) also see what I see in these threads asking for a classic shard. They actually probably see more in them than I do. They just react to it in their own way and based on their own, much longer history playing UO. I think you're pretty lucky you've had a chance to have this give-and-take kind of exchange with both of them. They don't do it all that often and I always enjoy reading it when they do.

No offense, but you should consider reading and understanding counter points of view. Simply digesting agreeable points of view = being a sheep.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

 

[Surgeries]

No offense, but you should consider reading and understanding counter points of view. Simply digesting agreeable points of view = being a sheep.

No offense, but I actually thought that you might actually understand both sides. Us watching you listening to yourself spout bullsh1t really isn't attractive on you. I fully understand that you believe it all.

Simply regurgitating your own feelings and opinions, as Sarsmi told you, even though you really, really, really, want it...won't make it happen, all by yourself.

We have all tried to help you understand it. Good enough.

We will now watch, as we have for nearly a Decade, as you rail yourself against every bit of logic that assails you in your plea to play a Classic Shard.

As you insult each person that disagrees with you...and highly praise those that do agree with you as "Of Superior Intelligence".

Pssst...it isn't new. You aren't the Ground Breaking Queen that you would like us all to believe you are. Or, more importantly, that you think you are.

That's in your head, and the head of your guild.

This crap has been thrown back up regularly, over the last 7+ years, and each time, without fail...Epic Fail. No Classic Shard.

I could be wrong, and this time it could happen.

But now?

Well, after showing your True Colors in calling True Brittanian Heroes, like Fertbert, a lazy liar...I recant any support I may have shown for you, and your cause.

Not that it really matters, but after your tirade of insults, I feel bad that you would resort to any action to help your own cause.

I won't make a leap of logic, like that you would use Cheat programs, if you start getting WTFPWNed in PvP. But based on what you have displayed here, and it doesn't bode well, if you are the "Voice of Reason" for a Classic Shard:

Anything Goes...Winning is Everything!!

Very sad, indeed.

OK!!

Back to the show...keep displaying your cat like Board Warrior moves...heheh...it is very entertaining!!

Yee-Haw!!





"Aye...said I..."

 

[Kaleb]

Congratulations.

I will say, though, that offers little to no info on exactly how many Developer jobs you have held, in your life, with Publicly Traded companies, doing MMORPG (or any) game development, now does it, though, Kaleb?

I am pretty sure it doesn't.

So...I can't speak for anyone but me, but I can sure say I am excited to know Kaleb...how many...exactly?

You have no idea whay my career is about and the details involved. please keep your flaming trolls in check.

No but then again you have no clue to the people I play UO with I talk to the main 2 DEV's through IRC all the time that run my shard (not EA) it costs them about 5k a month to run their server. and it has more people then pacific.

He worked on UO when AOS came out. That much we know.

The rest of your post is absolute speculation, and frankly, pretty ridiculous. He never ever said it can't be done. Ever. He said that the amount of work to go back through every line of code to fix all of the bugs that would have existed at any moment in time (and since some of the changes made to the code along the way weren't properly "Notated" or whatever Programmers do, when they edit current code etc.then they wouldn't know, precisely, where they were in the Development schedule, to know what to fix, and what not to fix), would be staggering, and they may end up re-writing the whole thing. All the while, he felt, that there was no way that people would be happy, anyway, as they were trying to fix all the problems that came with AOS, etc...well...hopefully you get the idea.

No one ever said it would be impossible, that I talked to. And Fertbert, and every Dev I have spoken with about UO have really loved this game. They want the majority of the players to love the game like they do, from my experiences.

But they also know, you can't please all the people, all the time, and Money Talks...you know the rest.

Yes he did based on a seattle meetup a while back!!! You were not that 1/2 mentally disabled old guy that kept askin the same question were you?

The #'s are clearly based on SUB #'s we have now. There is no way in hell that UO has as many people as it did during 2nd age or UO:R. I log on pacific its damn near empty. You know what, I give up, arguing with you is like arguing with my 4yo, better yet a wall. Heres your sign welcome to my Ignore list.

 

[Surgeries]

I deduced that you are talking out of your ass from what you post from here on../

Yep...the famous "Morgana Board Warrior" move. Insult your foe.

LOL. Wow. Great logic there! Also...superior come back!! YAY for Morgana!!

You were the one that opened this aspect of the discussion. Perhaps you should not attempt to operate from a false sense of superiority, when you have zero experience to back it up.

Um...like your experience in putting together Video Games? I have a nephew that produces Video Games. He is quite knowledgeable about it. He backs up precisely what you have been told: In a perfect world, all code is carefully archived, and meticulously (as much as can be) guarded. Today.

It wasn't like that so much even 4 years ago, he says, much less a decade ago. Things were far less rigid, in terms of controls, he says (he has been in Gaming for over 12 years, so he knows that of which he speaks).

If you actually do programming, and disagree with that notion, then I will let you take that up with people that truly know. There is absolutely no way that at 18 years old (ten years ago), however, you were compiling and debugging code for major corporations, and safeguarding the integrity of said data, all by yourself, or even with others, more than likely. I could be wrong, but I am guessing I am not...

So truly, you also have zero experience working in 10 or 12 year old Game Code, as you couldn't have been writing code for MMORPGs, as they had just come out...

And since that requires College...and you had, by your own admission, just finished High School...you are clueless about what state UO code was/is in. You are no more informed about that fact, than I am.

But Fertbert knew it very, very well. Way better than you, or Kaleb, or me, or anyone that iisn't a UO Dev.

If you need that made clearer, please let me know.

He (my Producer Nephew agrees that all programmers should do exactly as you say they should...but he also mentioned that Communism worked very well, in theory, too.

So you are arguing with seven year old information.

Got it.

Time for another Deduction Lesson...ready?

7 years ago, there was no Classic Shard. 6 Years ago...same exact story. 5 years ago? You guessed it...no Classic Shard, even amongst lots of clamoring.

4 Years Ago? Gosh dangit...still no Classic Shard, nor hope of one, at all. 3 years ago? You are catching on! Still absolutely not one Classic Shard. 2 years ago? No mention of, and still no Classic Shard. Hmmm.

Last Year? No Classic Shard.

This year, so far? No Classic Shard.

It seems to be a Trend, wouldn't ya say? You've done statistical analysis, I am thinking...I haven't, but one would think that a fairly definitive conclusion can be drawn, particularly given the exposure of all parties to other outcomes, and their possibilities.

So, deduction would indicate that the reasons for no Classic Shard are just as valid, based on how many Classic Shards we have today as opposed to 7 years ago, or so.

I am operating on current data, as well as historical.

After all, every good student of logic uses both logic and emotion to make a well balanced choice...

Not just Emotion, like you are.

Your text posted here would indicate otherwise. Your smug approach to this has basically exploded in your face.

Really? Oh no!! My Face!! my Face!!!

Oh wait...that was you trying to get me to believe something that isn't true!! Oh tricky you!! Board Warriorette!!

Your original goal, no doubt...but I hope that the mods and admins here will see through your blatant attempt to derail the discussion with hyperbole and logical fallacies.

Actually, no. I did not come in to derail anything. And if people like your previous ally, until she disagreed with you (Tina) and you said she was a sheep for agreeing with someone like me, Aesaidai, and others can't get through to you, I am sure I won't be able to, either.

But as I pointed out, I won't call you Lazy, a Liar, Ignorant, or any of the insults you have slung thus far...not my style.

I will with absolute conviction say that your posts are amazingly myopic, your point of view is beyond "Sort of Skewed", and although articulate, your posts contain almost no logic, from what I am able to discern; rather, a blatant disregard for any reality that differs from what you want reality to be.
In other words, you are just exactly like every Classic Shard fanatic that has preceded you here in the Hall, almost to a "T".

Congratulations.

I never made the claim to know Fertbert, and don't care to. It was your name dropping that brought him into this discussion...nothing else.

Wow. You called him a Lazy Liar...you do know that, right? You "Deduced" he must be lazy, because he didn't want to do "More Work"...Duh!..Remember?

Me telling you what I heard, right from the mouth of a Dev...someone that in 11 years you have never spoken with...me telling you that does not give you any right, at all, to cast aspersions on people you do not know.

When your Father took you hunting, it's too bad you folks didn't spend more time talking about "Manners"...really...

Then why ask me my experience in these areas?

If you didn't want to discuss coding, you should not have brought it up.

I didn't ask you if you knew how to write code for Computer Programs. But you knew that. I can write Basic Programming (or could). I programmed games on tape, on Radio Shack computers, and wrote my own Stock Market game. I knew how to resolve basic syntax errors...I learned about sub and gosub...but that wasn't the question, either.

I asked how many Computer Games you have been a Developer on, in the last 10 years, for Publicly Traded companies...particularly MMORPGs.

YOU are the one claiming it would be easy...for sure not too hard.

Yet...you have zero experience in reviving ten year old code, for Publicly Traded Companies...Gotcha. Makes total sense, now.

It's the same exact baseless claim as the rest of your posts.

I have no desire to pursue a career in game development. It is unstable and the pay is not on par with legitimate development or administration jobs. No thanks.

Yeah...this was your most telling post yet.

You will post here every 15 minutes about this great injustice done to you and your sister, all those years ago...you will try to convince all of us of the HUGE potential that awaits the Hardy Travelers if the Non-Lazy, Visionary Devs and Corporate Bigwigs would just get off their a$$es...you just KNOW it will work, because UO was VERY successful ,back in '98, when everyone could kill everyone!!

But...you won't actually go Do anything about it.

Because the pay is sub par with "Legitimate" jobs. Too bad that Draconi, and Leurocian, and every one else had to settle for "Sub Par" jobs, when you have a "Real" job, eh, Morgana?

Although amusing, your lack of foresight in aspersion casting really shows a lack of breadth and depth, of experience, in the real world.

My nephew made $165,000.00 last year doing Kid's Games. He worked from home. He doesn't consider that "Sub Par".

Yeah...what am I telling you anything for?

You have it all figured out. You probably make twice that much, work 4 hours a day, get daily Full Body Massages at lunch, and have a Limo pick you up, and drop you off, every day.

Or so you would have us believe?

Sounds to me like you have no idea what you are talking about...and are spouting nothing but opinions backed by minor name dropping. For that matter, in my eyes, you have exposed yourself as nothing but an emotional troll that deserves nothing more than my indifference.

Good evening.

*Sobs*

You meanie!@!



Yep...it is obvious that I have no idea. I mean...to you.

*Goes and Checks the Server List*

Nope...still no Classic Shard!! Look at that!

Until such time as a Classic Shard pops up on that server list, we can safely Deduce that at least so far, Fertbert has been 100% correct.

Hereinafter, he will be referred to as:

Fertbert, The Prophet.

 

[deadite]

Good lord. Can a mod lock this thread already? It's getting ridiculous.

Judging by the results of this unofficial poll, the desire for and desire against are just about even. Nobody won by landslide. There are no hanging chads to count. No lawsuits to file.

Right now if you want to play classic UO, the only option is a PRS. If EA ever decides they want that money, then they'll give us an official one. I personally hope that day comes eventually, but as usual, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Tina Small]

Actually, no. I did not come in to derail anything. And if people like your previous ally, until she disagreed with you (Tina) and you said she was a sheep for agreeing with someone like me, Aesaidai, and others can't get through to you, I am sure I won't be able to, either.

Eh, so much for trying to be subtle about it. I voted "no" in the original poll. If someone ever asked me if I think it would be a good idea for EA to create a "classic shard," I might vote yes, but with so many qualifications that the vote might as well be counted as a "no" or a solid "maybe."

I don't have the history or out-of-game experiences to be able to sit here and try to make the arguments why a classic shard probably isn't feasible. I've just been trying to ask a few questions here or there to get the people who want one so badly to say something, anything, other than what they usually say in these threads. Could have used the pot-stirring or popcorn icons myself a few times, but didn't want to be so frigging obvious about what I was doing.

 

[Tina Small]

No offense, but you should consider reading and understanding counter points of view. Simply digesting agreeable points of view = being a sheep.

I laughed when I read this earlier this morning, Morgana. Still laughing over it and shaking my head.

Thought about not replying at all. But that might make you think perhaps you hurt my feelings or perhaps scared me off.

Anyway, since I can no longer resist the urge to ask this and although I'm fairly certain I know what the answer will be, I'm gonna do it: Which of the folks who voted "yes" to this poll considers themselves the true sheep herder?