Chivalry overpowered in PVM.

[Riba1dry]

Bump for answer.

 

[Hanna]

No really Connor, I see this falling off the first page so I'll bump it, do explain this for me.

A dexxer can go without necromancy and be perfectly viable in high-end PVM, as in the case of all those chiv archers. The skill provides benefits if you have it, but you're not an idiot if you choose to go with something else..... and on he went on and on....

Nope a dexxer without necro isnt perfectly viable unless they pick up another complimentary skill. I have played a dexer without chilary with necro and spirit speak, it was a great template, very effetive much more then chivaly.
A necro warrior wants chivalry because their healing is based on damage done, so if you don't have the right elemental damage on weapon without chivalry your pretty screwed, because spirit speak really sucks for healing during a fight - without plenty of fresh corpses you hardly get any healing and waste alot of mana - something a necro warrior hasn't got that much of.

But it is also really nice to be able to recall with a spell and concecrate weapon is good when you can 't always find the best weapon for elemental damage, EOO is nice if you can get a monster isolated from other type of monsters - it's kind of like having a half-powered slayer weapon at your disposal all the time. Except with a slayer weapon you don't normally get chewed to peices by other types of monsters while you fiighting the one you have EOO on.

4/6 casting just so you can heal fast - why? By using 4/6 casting ,unless you have the most uber gear, will cost you slots that could be used to protect yourself and improve your abilities, so instead your end up having to constantly heal.

The main reason warriors have chivalry is the it was designed to compliment their skills, and they don't usually have enough room on a template for something else.

Bushido does a lot more damage than chivalry and regenerates every stat after killing amonster with honor, necro is like fighting with titanum armour both of these skills can stand toe to toe with the high end monsters, without chivalry. Chivalry by itself cannot.

 

[Riba1dry]

I have played a dexer without chilary with necro and spirit speak, it was a great template, very effetive much more then chivaly.

No, it wasn't. If there's one thing I and my opposition in this thread seem to agree on, it's the fact that any melee template without chivalry is gimp. The only difference is that they think this is a fine state of affairs.

Also, please tell me what you consider a high end monster.

 

[gjohnson5]

If there's one thing I and my opposition in this thread seem to agree on, it's the fact that any melee template without chivalry is gimp.

Wrong again as usual

 

[Limlight]

Figures Conner would get it wrong.

I dont care about Chiv for just PVE. I dont care about any template in PVE.

I care about it for PvP and the skill as a whole is lame because you dont need more then 60 skill to do pretty much anything you could ever need the skill for.

 

[kelmo]

This has moved into the realm of ranting...

 

[Duskofdead]

How many melee/archers at champs/doom/peerless DON'T have it? Even all the sampires have it. Or at least, it's overpowered compared to any archer/melee template that doesn't have it.

I would (myself) not leap so much to say that it's overpowered as that they've done a poor job in terms of making chivalry an "obvious best choice" for virtually all melee damage builds for PvM purposes. Even if the only reason that is so is because it's easier, more brainless or more easily managed during a fight to "get the same effect" out of chivalry as Bushido, Ninjitsu or some other potential melee-complement skill, it's still obvious enough to be enormously noticeable if you hang around PvM long enough.

I would say at my typical romp in Ilsh or champs or dungeons, it's the small minority of instances when I don't see chiv abilities being used. And it's the small minority of instances when I see anything else or any other type of melee build than one incorporating chiv.

So maybe the answer isn't 'nerf chiv' so much as 'make bushido, ninjitsu and necro more immediately useful or easy to use.' Or better yet, give them a stronger diversity of bonuses and abilities which are exclusive. Chivalry seems to be a "catch all" for melee build purposes and people only choose something else for a very specialized build.

Edit: I think there's actually a lot of that going around... it's not particular to Chiv. I think that a lot of new stuff has been rather haphazardly introduced and that, aside from RP or very developed, older players who want to try new or "advanced" templates, most players coalesce towards the same couple of abilities which with available gear choices, tend to become "obvious best choices" for melee, ranged or mage/tamer.

 

[Metalstorm]

With the exception of the better part of '08, I've been here since early '98 and until two days ago never used Chivalry or any other enhancement skill.

I used to pride myself on taking out the big stuff old school style with just a sword & shield and a whoooole lot of time

I chanced upon someone in Despise who was taking out Ogre Lords slightly faster than me (I can take them out fast with the right weapon/armor considering I've no special abilities and only 25 int/mana for the built in specials).

So for ****s & giggles I decided to try it and all I can say is wow.
I still can't clear an area like a tamer or bard or even a couple of extremely gifted mages but the scale is a lot closer now.

All I can say for the skill is that it gives us loner types the ability to venture further, stand a little taller and survive a whole lot longer.

I would wager that that is what the designers had in mind when they created it. Something that would greatly suit the lone warrior or warriors wandering the vast lands without magi support.

I havn't dabbled in archery since 2005 so I'm not sure how chiv is making archers over powered. I might have to reactivate an old acct of mine that has an archer to check it out.

Last I saw, you had to be still to get an accurate shot and there was a nasty long delay in which monsters would suddenly become much too close for comfort

Anyway, Chiv is probably a skill that should not be possible to be used on other players in pvp but for pvm it opens the game up a lot more for all the desperatoes out there.


On Edit: I know Ogre Lords arn't high end but I didn't want to bore you all with tales of taking 45 minutes to an hour to take out a single ancient wyrm & other nasty beasties pre chiv