You "2D People" are holding UO back

[Ni-]

i see it the other way around.

UO is a 2D game period. The attempt to create a 2D game into a 3D game was a costly mistake and they keep making the same mistake.


If they put that money into more game content we would have had a great deal more game for our money.


If you want 3D go play WoW. If EA wants to make an Ultima 3D game to compete with WoW fine go rebuild a new game from scratch but leave UO alone.

Actually it's been stated by the Dev team that they cannot implement everything they'd like to because of the lack of the capabilities of the legacy 2D client.

I agree that if there was only 1 client that there would be more production out of the dev team. I'd guess that if it were only the 2D client that we'd get maybe 20% more content and 10% more new capabilities. However if it were only the Gamebryo engine we'd probably be getting 50% more content and 120% more new capabilities. That is all subjective though. Just my opinion. Just as others are of the opinion that UO is better off without an advancement in a non legacy/2D client.

 

[uomlplayer]

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What it come's down to is, Are they making enough money from 2D players to keep the 2D client around,Same goes for KR.
So to say that 2D is holding game progression back is absurd,If EA/OSI ever thought 2D is not worth it, Or if KR is not worth it ,The cleint will be scrapped(remeber 3D? not KR).

In conclusion its just a matter of preference as to which client one plays,Let EA/OSI decide which client to keep/scrap cause in the end we are not the one's making this decison.

The Gamebryo(sp?) engine is capable of alot more things than the legacy client is capable of. In that sence, yes, 2D is holding the progression of UO back.

Subscribers are going to make their own game play decisions. EA is going to make their own business decisions. The UO Dev team is going to do what they can with what they have to work with, as long as it's ok with the EA big wigs.

None of that has any bearing on the capabilities of the Gamebryo engine compared to the capabilities of the legacy 2D client.[/QUOTE]

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In my post nowhere did i make a comparison between the Gamebryo engine ,and the2D client.
All i was trying to say in my post is You have you're reasons for playing the KR client,I have my point of view on the 2D client.

Now pay for the client you wish to support and i will do the same,I cannot try to force others to have the same point of view as I ,(Thats OSI/EA's decision to make which client to keep).

 

[Ni-]

The Gamebryo(sp?) engine is capable of alot more things than the legacy client is capable of. In that sence, yes, 2D is holding the progression of UO back.

Subscribers are going to make their own game play decisions. EA is going to make their own business decisions. The UO Dev team is going to do what they can with what they have to work with, as long as it's ok with the EA big wigs.

None of that has any bearing on the capabilities of the Gamebryo engine compared to the capabilities of the legacy 2D client.

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In my post nowhere did i make a comparison between the Gamebryo engine ,and the2D client.
All i was trying to say in my post is You have you're reasons for playing the KR client,I have my point of view on the 2D client.

Now pay for the client you wish to support and i will do the same,I cannot try to force others to have the same point of view as I ,(Thats OSI/EA's decision to make which client to keep).[/QUOTE]



I know what you were trying to say, and that is a very valid point. My point was in reference to the original purpose of this thread.

The original title "You '2D People' are holding UO back". Personally, my posts were intended to focus on the clients as opposed to the users.

I think I'd like to see what the Devs could do if they weren't handcuffed by the limitations of the legacy client. However, I'll continue to play UO dispite the client(s) supported.

 

[uomlplayer]

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In my post nowhere did i make a comparison between the Gamebryo engine ,and the2D client.
All i was trying to say in my post is You have you're reasons for playing the KR client,I have my point of view on the 2D client.

Now pay for the client you wish to support and i will do the same,I cannot try to force others to have the same point of view as I ,(Thats OSI/EA's decision to make which client to keep).

I know what you were trying to say, and that is a very valid point. My point was in reference to the original purpose of this thread.

The original title "You '2D People' are holding UO back". Personally, my posts were intended to focus on the clients as opposed to the users.

I think I'd like to see what the Devs could do if they weren't handcuffed by the limitations of the legacy client. However, I'll continue to play UO dispite the client(s) supported.[/QUOTE]






There you go again,saying the dev's are handcuffed by the limitation's of the legacy client,Have you ever thought about, it's the other way around?.

Maybe we need a poll to see how many 2D user's are there compared to the KR client user's,Cause if there's more people using the 2D client over the KR one,Isnt then that the KR client hindering the 2D client from more/ better art/content because more people pay's for 2D over KR?

 

[uomlplayer]

Remember people! This is a business,It will always come down to which existing client comes up with the most revenue to maintain/run the servers.

Be glad they can afford to support both clients!

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I think I'd like to see what the Devs could do if they weren't handcuffed by the limitations of the legacy client.

You aren't the only one. We can only imagine what could have happened with UO had they actually kept to their original plan of making SA KR-Gamebryo client only... it would have been amazing IMO. Instead we'll get about 75 to 80% of the vision so that it can be translated into 2d.

if there's more people using the 2D client over the KR one,Isnt then that the KR client hindering the 2D client from more/ better art/content because more people pay's for 2D over KR?

Not that simple. It was the thread regarding the improvement of 2d artwork that led to the development of KR in the first place. 2d is TECHNOLOGICALLY limited compared to Gamebryo especially in terms of graphics, resolution, and effects. No difference in player base will allow 2d to do some of the things that the Gamebryo engine can do that Wombat (2d) cannot on a technical level.

Second, Wombat is VERY proprietary with a diminishing coder base whereas Gamebryo is a widely used codebase. This allows the Dev Team to change, and/or grow with newer developers (or even part time developers from DAoC or WAR) and have them have a familiarity with the game's client BEFORE They start work on it instead of having to explain and teach them how to code the Wombat client.

 

[Ravahan]

The issue is not one of popularity, its one of the ability to expand. Personally, maybe I don't think KR is the answer to draw in that new blood, but it's what we've got. If UO ever does put out another client, it won't be for many years... And KR really ain't half bad. I was messing around in it earlier.

I'd still rather have my UO3d, because that's what I cut my teeth on, but I recognize the necessity for forward motion in a game if its to stay afloat. Sure, you can enjoy the 2d client all you like, but what happens when they can't add any more capabilities or content due to the limitations of the server code required to interact with the 2d client that's OVER A DECADE OLD. Its a miracle it runs on modern machines... You ever try playing a game like, say, FFVII that was designed around the same time for PC on XP? I can only imagine how it goes on Vista. You're lucky if you can get it to open at all, and then its ussually buggy...

What UO NEEDS is a competetive 3d client, what we HAVE is UOKR. This is what they tossed at us, it's not bad, and it was made the way it is as a compromise to long-time players. Just imagine how it makes the KR artists feel when you sit around and badmouth all the work they put into this game trying to capture the "feel" of classic UO in an attractive semi-modern interface! Its not the kind of thing most people would say to someone's face. I bet they're wishing about now that they hadn't bothered with the compromise and had just tried to make something more competetive. If they are, I wouldn't blame them a bit. They've gotten bupkiss in appreciation.

 

[uomlplayer]

...

I think I'd like to see what the Devs could do if they weren't handcuffed by the limitations of the legacy client.

You aren't the only one. We can only imagine what could have happened with UO had they actually kept to their original plan of making SA KR-Gamebryo client only... it would have been amazing IMO. Instead we'll get about 75 to 80% of the vision so that it can be translated into 2d.

if there's more people using the 2D client over the KR one,Isnt then that the KR client hindering the 2D client from more/ better art/content because more people pay's for 2D over KR?

Not that simple. It was the thread regarding the improvement of 2d artwork that led to the development of KR in the first place. 2d is TECHNOLOGICALLY limited compared to Gamebryo especially in terms of graphics, resolution, and effects. No difference in player base will allow 2d to do some of the things that the Gamebryo engine can do that Wombat (2d) cannot on a technical level.

Second, Wombat is VERY proprietary with a diminishing coder base whereas Gamebryo is a widely used codebase. This allows the Dev Team to change, and/or grow with newer developers (or even part time developers from DAoC or WAR) and have them have a familiarity with the game's client BEFORE They start work on it instead of having to explain and teach them how to code the Wombat client.

Everyone in this debate has thier valid point's.But as i was saying in the last few of my post's,It all come's down to these few point's,

1. personally preference.

2. what is people willing to pay for.

3. will it make enough profit for EA/OSI

So no matter how we try to convince each other, we just can't get other's to pay for something they dont want,(this go's both ways for KR/2D)

 

[ColterDC]

what happens when they can't add any more capabilities or content due to the limitations of the server code required to interact with the 2d client

Maybe they would start focusing on removing dupers, scripters and speedhackers?

Just a thought

 

[Lexfixr]

What a joke! what makes you so special that you have to have special graphic's to enjoy the game 2d may be old like a lot of us playing but it works without all the crap that has been created to try to impress us visually. I'm still playing after almost 11 years cuz of the people in the game and the fun that can be created by a bunch of people looking for a good time. and no fancy pictures will change that. I'm all for progress but not at any price it has to work and as of yet none of the 3d crap that has come out is worth the effort.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

what makes you so special that you have to have special graphic's to enjoy the game

We're the people who have funded the advancement of technology by buying upgrades to our computer systems that have been produced in the 21st century and would like to enjoy an MMOG that we have enjoyed for years and see it take advantage of the new technologies and by doing so not only retain membership, but have the chance to grow membershipagain thus ensuring the continued success of the game we all enjoy.

We're the people who know you do not have to have a sequel to an ongoing game when you can upgrade the client on a technological level and still keep the same persistent game running in the process.

We're the people who do not fear advancement.

We're the people who are not stuck in the mindset that "it's not Ultima" if it has post-1997 graphic and resolution quality.

We're the people who see the features that KR can do inherently that 2d CANNOT do inherently and could never have done without 3rd party programs.

 

[AesSedai]

- Aye.

I agree with EA that they should allow 2D players to continue until a metaphorical handful remain.

But... I am quite disappointed that SA has already been 'dumbed down'; I truly hope they will allow toggles for those that want more than 2D graphics (when I say '2D' I am referring to the legacy client... I keep forgetting that the non-3D '3D' client is gone & I should refer to the original as the legacy rather than the 2D client), lowered animations and whatever else they lessen in order to appeal to some of the playerbase.

 

[Lexfixr]

....We're the people who have funded the advancement of technology by buying upgrades to our computer systems that have been produced in the 21st century and would like to enjoy an MMOG that we have enjoyed for years


here we go! you didnt get the point I'm happy that you have spent $'s on your pc and upgrades it works for me I have owned a computer company for the past 25 years and I have the latest and greatest systems and yes I live in the 21st century.
what I said was the 3d stuff brought out so far doesnt cut it. So dont blame us who want something better but aren't prepared to embrace the new stuff cuz its new I expect it to flow and provide something better than the flashy nonsense to date. So dont blame us who pop back to 2D because of the shortcomings of the weak updates to date. If they make something of quality I assure you we will come.

 

[Lady Arwen]

There, I said it.

I am getting tired of it.

It is fear.

We all want to hold on to something familiar. It is a fatal flaw in the human spirit. Anything different and we panic.

It is you people, who may or may not own Pentium III 800 computers that are holding this game back.

I only have two things to say.... FUC*... YOU...

 

[MissEcho]

Charming

 

[kelmo]

I find this whole thread charming... Watch the tempers folks...

 

[Yazman]

It is you people, who may or may not own Pentium III 800 computers that are holding this game back.

You have got to be joking, I mean I seriously don't believe that anybody who intends to play a game these days has a computer that old.

 

[UO Crazed]

I think you hit the nail on the head...2D is in fact holding UO back. The Gamebryo engine is capable of so much more! The ONLY reason KR sucks is because the devs HAD to mimic 2D with tiles - in fact, the Gamebryo engine HAD to dumb-it-down in order to support 2D game play.

Evolve this F**KING game already!!!!!!

 

[Harlequin]

There seems to be some activex code on a post in the second page (also appears when replying, anyone has an idea what it is?

I normally don't get activex warnings on stratics.

 

[red sky]

I think the only real way to get everyone weened off 2D is to just shut it off like they did with the old 3D UO (not UO2 which never happened). That way everyone will have to play KR whether they like it or not and then we won't have this big argument. Otherwise, I don't see everyone switching to KR because EasyUO, Razor, and UOAssist will make 2D the client of choice compared to learning all the new odds and ends of KR. I being one who really tried to get used to KR but became frustrated with certain things and decided it was much easier to just play 2D with all the preset macros and scripts that I already had (not that I'm a scripter). So take it or leave it but this is the only way to get everyone to switch to KR.

 

[BadManiac]

Wow are we still having these? KR failed, UO is 2D, get over it.

Some people actually wish that they had discontinued 2D and forced everyone to play KR, just to see the "full potential" of UO?
I'm sorry, shutting down 2D would force the VAST majority of players to leave, not switch client. So you'd be playing a broken, blurry, incomplete, single player version of UO. Is that honestly what you want?

KR has been out how long now? And it's STILL missing functionality that 2D has had for 11 years? Inexcusable. And it looks worse, there I said it too.

 

[Ravahan]

Maybe they would start focusing on removing dupers, scripters and speedhackers?

Just a thought

Of course, since all scripts (and I'm pretty sure speed hacks) NEED to use the 2d client in the first place... *ahem* ... Well, they're not going to get around scripting without completely rebuilding the client and I'm fairly certain they've said as much. The problem is, way back when, the sourcecode for the game was accidently released on an expansion disk. This was used to create all the programs that rely on UO2d to cheat, and also I believe for making the freeshards.

Yet again, the 2d addiction is standing in the way of something-- us being cheat-free.

 

[HD2300]

The Gamebryo engine is capable of so much more! The ONLY reason KR sucks...

Everyone is in total agreement that Gamebryo engine is a very good real 3D engine. Oblivion and Warhammer are proof. I know most would agree that if what got delivered was a stable real 3D client, everyone would be using it now, not just 100 people.

But what got delivered was a 2D pile of crap. KR failed. EA practically ditched the entire team that worked on it. The success of the SA client will depend on how much additional work EA have really put into improving KR. If it is just KR rebranded with a new skin, it will fail too.

 

[Harlequin]

Of course, since all scripts (and I'm pretty sure speed hacks) NEED to use the 2d client in the first place... *ahem* ... Well, they're not going to get around scripting without completely rebuilding the client and I'm fairly certain they've said as much. The problem is, way back when, the sourcecode for the game was accidently released on an expansion disk. This was used to create all the programs that rely on UO2d to cheat, and also I believe for making the freeshards.

Yet again, the 2d addiction is standing in the way of something-- us being cheat-free.

Rav, iirc, UOA and many other 3rd party apps at that time were created before the expansion with the server engine. They basically sniffed and analyzed the network packets the client was sending/receiving. With that, they created utilities to manipulate the packets. No need for the server codes. Same thing will happen for any new re-written 2D/3D client, or even other MMOs.

I fully support a 3D engine with better graphics (plus retaining 2D support so that my wife can play). Just feel that it's crucial for people to support it for the right reasons/expectations. Otherwise people will be dissapointed with it not delivering it's promises and unfairly slam the new client.

Yes, I know I am asking for both 2D and 3D and it takes extra resources to support both. However, looking at their work so far, I am fully confident that the devs are more than capable of doing this.

 

[Ni-]

KR has been out how long now? And it's STILL missing functionality that 2D has had for 11 years? Inexcusable. And it looks worse, there I said it too.

What is really funny is that the first day KR was released, dispite how bad it was, it had functionality that 2D had been missing for 11 years, and probably never will have.

 

[the 4th man]

I only have two things to say.... FUC*... YOU...

man oh man, aren't we a real life truck driver.
far from Lady, arwen........BUT, the original poster has the right to post his views. Saddly, repreccusions will arise........same sane, some lame.

I don't know the ins and outs of computer gaming.....I do know, UO today is like playing nintendo from back when. You older people need to stop acting your age and get with the program.

The worst part about fear.........not being able to admit to it.

10-4

 

[lucitus]

The comparision between 2d and KR screenshoot shows it with a bit more sharpness there is not much difference. The biggest difference is that you have a new free modable interface and this a good feature!

I can't hear it, it must look like 2d ****. What is with Windows 7? Is there an old startmenue like in Windows 95?

There are two ways the story ends, one way is the 2d client wins and is the only client, nobody will come more, i will cancel my account and play on an KR freeshard, the other way is 2d and KR play the same role and KR is EA's main client, then the future is open for UO flying Creatures, nice boats, pirates, canons, more interaction ingame.

What i want for the UO community is that all mates can play what they want! The change between 2d to KR isnt a thing you can do in 2h, you cannot install Windows Vista for example and expect you know everything because you are knowing XP.

I have make much expierence in introducing new and current players to the KR client, for new players the KR client is the first choice, the itnerface is easier, you can say what you want but it is much more understable to create a hotbar set a key and drop an icon into it, than open options click to keybidings, click to new, click on an choice menu, select what you want (if you dont know what it is) and then pressing a key.

For a current player the new interface is simply NEW, you must learn where things are. But what my friend last time he logged into 2d said to me, hmm how could i play that, the items are here soo small on my widescreen and the animation are slow.

 

[IanJames]

I think the biggest thing holding back the move to the client is that people are expecting some sort of major graphics overhaul, and frankly, you just aren't going to get that by modifying the existing game, it would have to be completely re-done.

I've been using the KR client not exclusively, but for one of my characters, slowly getting the hotbars setup and what not, and frankly, it's just so easier to use my tamer with the KR client now than the legacy client. The macro abilities are just so easy to setup and more advanced. I barely even have to open my backpack anymore.

So, if you can overlook the "graphics" then you have a much better client over all. It really is just a matter of people taking the time and saying to themselves, I'm going to learn to use this client. And really within a few days they will be back up to speed.

There really is no question that with the gamebryo engine there is so much more that the devs can give to the game, but the fear of people leaving UO over having to switch clients seems to be crippling the move.

 

[Archon007]

There, I said it.

I am getting tired of it. And I am not talking so much about the interface as I am the graphics. I just don't understand people. How can nostalgia be this powerful? Nostalgia is a great thing but at it's higher levels it gets in the way of progress. For most practical people, nostalgia lasts about 20 minutes. I used to do this. Every now and then I would get really excited and pop in Ultima III and after about 15 minutes I just can't do it. It makes me sad, because those are classics, but it is hard waiting for disks to load, etc.

Anytime something new comes out, people hate it. Windows 95, 98, XP, and now Vista. Now people think XP is great. They did not think that when it was first released. But at least enough of the populace gave it a fair shot and it eventually it held up. Yes I have Vista and it works fine.'

And yes I play Ultima Online KR 3D. Why? Because there are some seriously good macro options, the graphics don't look like they are from 10 years ago, I can play fullscreen on my widescreen monitor and have a very large playfield with windows to mix and match. Yes there are some bugs and there are some bugs in 2D as well. But anyone who tells me the artwork is better in 2D is delusional. Yes I know KR has it's bugs but my goodness, 2D runs in 800 x 600. I have a 22" monitor. There is no way I am going to squint my eyes to play this game. And fullscreen has stretching unless you want to enable scaling which screws up other games.

It is fear.

We all want to hold on to something familiar. It is a fatal flaw in the human spirit. Anything different and we panic.

It is you people, who may or may not own Pentium III 800 computers that are holding this game back.

I have a very new computer that rune Age of Conan with no issues at all (and that game is a graphic hog), and the KR 3d client not only looks terrible but it lags like a motherf..... as soon as more than 2 or 3 people/mobs are on you screen.

I play UO to PvP and the terrible graphics and lag from the KR client make that impossible.

PS if it wasn't for us 2d client players EA would probably shut UO down like other titles since they lost 410 million last year and had to lay off a bunch of people.

 

[IanJames]

Have you tried using the optimization tips by OldMan in the KR thread or one of the new UI's available? I dont' have a lag problem with mobs or other people, so maybe it's just a matter of tweaking the client a little for you?

 

[Gellor]

Donjn,
You once again skirt the issue at hand.

If the new client was the cat's meow, EA would make a boxed set or do other advertising. But the fact still stands that the client is not good. Most people have stated that multiple times but you still say "it is subjective". So is the opinion that the 2d client is bad.

But it isn't the cat's meow... we don't have any advertising of any sort... we don't have a boxed set featuring just the KR client... they did it with the 3d client way back in the day.

So trying to blame the existence of a 2d client on no advertising is a poor excuse. The blame for no advertising is squarely on EA's shoulders and no one else.

EA IS in a bad situation... and I 100% agree a new client could draw new subscriptions. However, they haven't produced a client to date that will do that. And it isn't the fact that they are maintaining the 2d client that is holding back a GOOD new client. They went completely off with the old 3d client with the graphics.

To take care of YOUR perceived issue of "maintaining" two sets of graphics, they could very easily create a small quick utility for going from a super hi-rez 3d picture into a 2d tile. It is a simple rotating camera projection program... second semester comp sci graphics class back in the late 90s

However, people have stated a LOT of times they want a new client to have the same simple feel and look as the current 2d client. We are satisfied with the 3/4 iso perspective and don't want a first person perspective.

We want the dev team to concentrate on what is under the hood more than what it is packaged in... you know, fix dupes, crashes, game play issues, etc.

EA knows for a fact that a new client will not attract enough new players to save UO if they lost 3/4 of the current subscriptions due to a poorly implemented client.

Thus EA has to walk a tight rope on whatever new client they try to provide because if they tick off enough people, UO is beyond history.

Two good analogies of this are renovating a house and modernizing an old car. In both cases, the outside maintains a classic look and feel. In both cases, they are upgraded: in the case of the house, new pipes, new electric, and new insulation... in the case of the car, disc brakes, new engine/trans, and upgraded interior.

There are other issues within UO that a new client won't fix and because of that, they will still lose their existing subscriptions like now as well as not attract as many as they loose because of these issues: speed hacks, game play issues in game, plain old bad logic, etc.

 

[donjn]

Donjn,
You once again skirt the issue at hand.

As are you.

If the new client was the cat's meow, EA would make a boxed set or do other advertising. But the fact still stands that the client is not good. Most people have stated that multiple times but you still say "it is subjective". So is the opinion that the 2d client is bad.

If I like KR more than 2d and you like 2d more than KR, then where does this leave us?

But it isn't the cat's meow... we don't have any advertising of any sort... we don't have a boxed set featuring just the KR client... they did it with the 3d client way back in the day.

And back then UO had more subscriptions that's why they released boxed sets. They could take more chances. Are you going to actually argue that boxed sets with Samurai warriors on the cover was a good idea? Several of these box sets were a total miss, so why would they try again?

So trying to blame the existence of a 2d client on no advertising is a poor excuse. The blame for no advertising is squarely on EA's shoulders and no one else.

My original argument was never that. Blaming the existing 2d client on no advertising was a response to your question "why is there no more advertising?". Also, I mentioned that advertising was not the only reason. 10 years of player habit and previous failed boxed sets would make EA reluctant no?

EA IS in a bad situation... and I 100% agree a new client could draw new subscriptions. However, they haven't produced a client to date that will do that. And it isn't the fact that they are maintaining the 2d client that is holding back a GOOD new client. They went completely off with the old 3d client with the graphics.

And they can't do that. because no matter what is released, all of you will say it''s not "Ultima" enough for you.

To take care of YOUR perceived issue of "maintaining" two sets of graphics, they could very easily create a small quick utility for going from a super hi-rez 3d picture into a 2d tile. It is a simple rotating camera projection program... second semester comp sci graphics class back in the late 90s

Nice plug by the way. I am sure it is not as easy as you think.

However, people have stated a LOT of times they want a new client to have the same simple feel and look as the current 2d client. We are satisfied with the 3/4 iso perspective and don't want a first person perspective.

I agree. I hate 1st person. Not sure where this is relevant.

We want the dev team to concentrate on what is under the hood more than what it is packaged in... you know, fix dupes, crashes, game play issues, etc.

I agree.

EA knows for a fact that a new client will not attract enough new players to save UO if they lost 3/4 of the current subscriptions due to a poorly implemented client.

THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT. Thanks. And how can you expect them to give you a good client if they HAVE TO SPEND A TON OF TIME MAKING SURE COOL NEW THINGS WORK IN 2D????? I wonder how many cool technologies are in the KR engine that cannot be used because the 2d fanatics would flip out because this 10+ year old client can't handle it?

I want you to read that again, several times...

I wonder how many cool technologies are in the KR engine that cannot be used because the 2d fanatics would flip out because this 10+ year old client can't handle it?

Thus EA has to walk a tight rope on whatever new client they try to provide because if they tick off enough people, UO is beyond history.

This is why no boxed sets. That is the "tight rope" you are talking about. Release a new client slowly and see what happens.

Two good analogies of this are renovating a house and modernizing an old car. In both cases, the outside maintains a classic look and feel. In both cases, they are upgraded: in the case of the house, new pipes, new electric, and new insulation... in the case of the car, disc brakes, new engine/trans, and upgraded interior.

So why not upgrade your computer to all the newest technology but still keep the computer case a "classic"? Big, bulky and a tan color. With the huge Compaq sticker on it?

Your analogy brutally fails in technology terms. In this case, you can't really upgrade a 15" CRT monitor into a gorgeous 22" LCD widescreen AND keep the outside looking classic...LOL

There are other issues within UO that a new client won't fix and because of that, they will still lose their existing subscriptions like now as well as not attract as many as they loose because of these issues: speed hacks, game play issues in game, plain old bad logic, etc.

Name an issue that a new client cant fix? And if you are going to say hacks, then we might as well give up Windows XP, Vista etc because there will always be someone writing a new hack/virus...

 

[Ravahan]

Donjn, this is a battle older than item properties. Just let it drop, you're not going to get through to anyone. At this point, the thread has devolved into a series of "nu-uh!" and "yu-huh!"s that's not going to help anyone (with a few exceptions).

What's going to happen is, one day, like myself with 3d they'll find their client gone and decide to play what they can, or if that day never comes they'll go to log in one day and wonder why all the servers have been shut down. This isn't a democracy or even a republic, this is a corperation and they'll do what they gotta do to see that green.

If they show respect for the long time subscribers, its because its more profitable than respecting the new blood. If that ever changes, so will that respect. Believe it.

 

[Nexus]

I've tried both I use both for different things but I still prefer 2D and I'll list my reasons.....

Even with a PC that exceeds the minimum spec by far for KR, I have Crash Issues, the client is buggy in many areas, the Graphics which I don't complain about in some aspects seem way out of proportion look. The Client is far from intuitive when it comes to setting up macro's what I can do in a matter of seconds in 2D takes me longer though I'm sure with practice it would be come easier...Movement has a "Floaty" feel which I don't really like but can deal with..

On the other hand KR has brought a dramatic improvement to crafting, and has some benefits for the Thief with the Grid View packs....It's step in the right direction but it's execution is far from being a benefit to UO in many ways. Hopefully SA will resolve these issues and if it does then I'll be more inclined to use it but until then well it's 2D (predominately) for me....

THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT. Thanks. And how can you expect them to give you a good client if they HAVE TO SPEND A TON OF TIME MAKING SURE COOL NEW THINGS WORK IN 2D????? I wonder how many cool technologies are in the KR engine that cannot be used because the 2d fanatics would flip out because this 10+ year old client can't handle it?

I want you to read that again, several times...

I wonder how many cool technologies are in the KR engine that cannot be used because the 2d fanatics would flip out because this 10+ year old client can't handle it?

As for that statement there is very little they can't put in due to client restrictions...I promise, the bigger issue will be if the 10+ year old Server Code that the entire game is built on can handle it....

Your character is nothing but a set of data sent through the internet to their servers, Your mouse movements, key strokes, input into Menus nothing more than what you see when you fill out a form on a web page or go to click an icon, or write an E-mail. The Client is just a GUI nothing more nothing less, it's nothing more than a fancy desktop that you can interact with.