You "2D People" are holding UO back

[Vyal]

There, I said it.

I am getting tired of it. And I am not talking so much about the interface as I am the graphics. I just don't understand people. How can nostalgia be this powerful? Nostalgia is a great thing but at it's higher levels it gets in the way of progress. For most practical people, nostalgia lasts about 20 minutes. I used to do this. Every now and then I would get really excited and pop in Ultima III and after about 15 minutes I just can't do it. It makes me sad, because those are classics, but it is hard waiting for disks to load, etc.

Anytime something new comes out, people hate it. Windows 95, 98, XP, and now Vista. Now people think XP is great. They did not think that when it was first released. But at least enough of the populace gave it a fair shot and it eventually it held up. Yes I have Vista and it works fine.'

And yes I play Ultima Online KR 3D. Why? Because there are some seriously good macro options, the graphics don't look like they are from 10 years ago, I can play fullscreen on my widescreen monitor and have a very large playfield with windows to mix and match. Yes there are some bugs and there are some bugs in 2D as well. But anyone who tells me the artwork is better in 2D is delusional. Yes I know KR has it's bugs but my goodness, 2D runs in 800 x 600. I have a 22" monitor. There is no way I am going to squint my eyes to play this game. And fullscreen has stretching unless you want to enable scaling which screws up other games.

It is fear.

We all want to hold on to something familiar. It is a fatal flaw in the human spirit. Anything different and we panic.

It is you people, who may or may not own Pentium III 800 computers that are holding this game back.

I don't agree with you but I do. I love playing the old 2D UO it's just so old man it brings me back to my Nintendo Dragon Warrior days every time. Hell it brings me back to Brit gate fighting on roof tops with naked mages and regs.

BUT...

You can tell the dev team has no IDEA at all what the hell they are doing in the MMO industry ROFL. You have a game that you make a million shards for with only a million players. Ontop of that these guys can't get anything right they have honest to god been fixing BUGS yes BUGS for 11 straight years and to this date there is still more bugs and glitches in the game then you can shake a stick at. Instead of getting a dev team that is out of a good school and knows a lil something about working on MMO's we get the bottom of the barrel man, 3 years for SA?! Thats a joke thats a flipping joke man.

You know you can get a UO world maker and make a complete new map in about 30 min? You know you can put that in the client and host it with player run shard crap? All in under 30 min?!!!?!?!

But the guys that get hired by EA to work on this game take 3 years!!! And you wander why I say the things I say about these guys that run this game.

I wish Draconi would comment on this thread I really do. He won't tho and you know why he wont )|(

 

[Lady Michelle]

I didn't like feeling like the jolly green giant in KR hopefully this time they make the characters the same size as in 2d.

This time for beta testing I hope they sign up players that have some knowledge on how the game mechanics should work not just someone who wants to do beta for the fun of it. A player who signs up has to have a active UO account in good standing, as played the game for a couple years.Sometimes I feel the way 3d and KR as been that people who don't even play UO signed up for the beta testing. the sign up forum would look something like this

Account name ( no password)
Email:
What you will be testing ( check mark)
( ) spell casting ( ) checking out graphics ( ) making sure all crafting tools work properly. ( ) plant system works properly etc.
I like to see something like that for beta, but you would also be able to test out other things and turn in bug reports on those to.

 

[It Lives]

KR is a liquid, blurry mess. There I said it.

ECHO Echo echo....

 

[Kratos Aurion]

It is my belief that there are right ways and wrong ways of game designing.

UO subscribers love 2D for its classic appeal, gentle graphics and flow of color contrasts (except with just about every creature implemented since UOSE).

Most classic players probably do fear the fact that if UO went completely 3D, it would end up looking as bad as WOW with noticably "flat" looking surfaces with no texture and little appeal.

That doesn't necessarily have to be the case if 3D is implemented right. There are many different graphics engines that would support the look of Ultima. Just at this point in time I don't know if it's the best idea for this game due to it's condition. I'd rather have that time and money invested into a UO2 (3D).

This time for beta testing I hope they sign up players that have some knowledge on how the game mechanics should work not just someone who wants to do beta for the fun of it.

A lot of bugs are actually discovered that way. Yes there are players who will dedicate themselves to the mechanics of bug testing but there are also those who choose to venture the game and stumble across bugs. It's basically how graphics testing is done.

 

[Rubican]

Fact: Many (perhaps most) current players will never switch from 2d.
Fact: It is very difficult to attract new players to an older 2d game.

I believe EA/Mythic has the right approach, keep the current 2d client while working on a new client (SA) in an attempt to draw new players to prolong the sustainability of our game. Yes, supporting 2 clients will lengthen devolpment time of new content, but it is the best option.

'nuff said.
now X out of stratics and go play the game.

 

[4th3ist]

KR is a liquid, blurry mess. There I said it.

ECHO Echo echo....

2D gives me a headache and I have to stop playing within 20 minutes of loading the client. I actually have a modern machine and play on a 22" monitor in 1680x1050 resolution. Try scaling an 800x600 GAMEPLAY window into that and playing on it efficently.

KR is a life saver. I can play it for hours without any issues, load up any 2008-2009 powerhouse game and transition into beautiful enviornments much more easily.. How many of you on 2D play other games? Perhaps I just have a problem going from staring at a screen rendered at TEN FRAMES PER SECOND to 60+..

 

[donjn]

Fact: Many (perhaps most) current players will never switch from 2d.
Fact: It is very difficult to attract new players to an older 2d game.

I believe EA/Mythic has the right approach, keep the current 2d client while working on a new client (SA) in an attempt to draw new players to prolong the sustainability of our game. Yes, supporting 2 clients will lengthen devolpment time of new content, but it is the best option.

'nuff said.
now X out of stratics and go play the game.

This is part of the issue. No matter how good a 3D version looks I think some of you will stay 2D till you are in your grave...

So why should EA spend money on a "proper" 3D upgrade if it will lose some of its playerbase? Hence, why the "2D cult" is holding us back.

 

[Thav12]

The OP stated in his initial message, before he started back tracking, that the 2D people are holding the future of UO back. Now that statement has not been rebutted by any of the subsequent answers. I think that is because we all know that it is so damn true.

Regardless of whether you like KR or not, if the community was given a deadline to abolish the 2D client and in a concerted effort would work towards adopting the new technology, get rid of nuisances and bugs, everyone would benefit. In this forum, the cries and moans would be unreal and lots would threaten to quit, but then won't.... it is called addiction for a reason.

I agree with the OP. I play both 2D and KR. Certain things can not be well executed in KR, others suck to do in 2D. The ratio initially was 80 - 20, but as i got familiar with the possibilities of KR, the ratio now is 20-80. Opinions differ wth regards to graphics, but frankly both are "ugly" by any sort of modern standard.

What makes this a cool game is not the client, it is the underlying game mechanics.

Nevertheless, most haters of KR hate it for the same reasons, and those reasons are quite legit. However, in stead of taking on the task of bettering the next product, most of the haters just fall back on the 10 y/o product they know and accept the flaws in that product because of familiarity and reluctance to deal with new and different flaws of an otherwise much improved product with a brighter future and possibilities way beyond the old one.

...li

 

[donjn]

Some of you say KR is blurry? lol

Want to know why?

Because you are so used to the jagged edges of classic 2D UO. Not to mention KR has some light bloom features that many of you aren't used to.

Look, we can do this all day long but I will never win this argument going up against 10 years of human habit.

 

[donjn]

The OP stated in his initial message, before he started back tracking, that the 2D people are holding the future of UO back. Now that statement has not been rebutted by any of the subsequent answers. I think that is because we all know that it is so damn true.

Regardless of whether you like KR or not, if the community was given a deadline to abolish the 2D client and in a concerted effort would work towards adopting the new technology, get rid of nuisances and bugs, everyone would benefit. In this forum, the cries and moans would be unreal and lots would threaten to quit, but then won't.... it is called addiction for a reason.

I agree with the OP. I play both 2D and KR. Certain things can not be well executed in KR, others suck to do in 2D. The ratio initially was 80 - 20, but as i got familiar with the possibilities of KR, the ratio now is 20-80. Opinions differ wth regards to graphics, but frankly both are "ugly" by any sort of modern standard.

What makes this a cool game is not the client, it is the underlying game mechanics.

Nevertheless, most haters of KR hate it for the same reasons, and those reasons are quite legit. However, in stead of taking on the task of bettering the next product, most of the haters just fall back on the 10 y/o product they know and accept the flaws in that product because of familiarity and reluctance to deal with new and different flaws of an otherwise much improved product with a brighter future and possibilities way beyond the old one.

...li

Thank you for a very well thought out and intelligent post. I was harsh yes, but perhaps my backtrack was to keep everyone happy and not start a flame war..

 

[Hemisphere]

UO is a cult game though. If it were released today, in it's current incarnation (KR, or rather SA), for $13 a month, it would be a complete and utter flop.

 

[kelmo]

Hmmm... A cult. Who is the cult leader? Can I be in charge of the Kool-aid?

 

[Mook Chessy]

How is that new "coke " working out for them....

If we wanted 3d we would go play a different game!

Why waste the time and resources, that is what will kill UO. An increase in cost for features that are not wanted.

Keep UO simple and stable, it has enough junkies to keep the lights on!

 

[Vyal]

You guys are missing the point the future of UO is already sealed this thread is just another nail in the coffin.

 

[Hemisphere]

If a thread like this counts as a nail in UO's coffin, then that coffin must contain more metal than wood by now

 

[Thav12]

How is that new "coke " working out for them....

If we wanted 3d we would go play a different game!

Why waste the time and resources, that is what will kill UO. An increase in cost for features that are not wanted.

Keep UO simple and stable, it has enough junkies to keep the lights on!

Now, this is not very constructive. First of all, 3d is the type of thing that requirs two game graphics cards and a $5000 polaroid screen. 3D rendering has been around since castle wolfenstein, and I would say the modern version of that is Call of Duty 4. That is not what anyone wants. So, the whole premise that KR is 3d is wrong. It is a different, more scalable engine that still portrays the game in the same birds eye view that made this game so popular. So lets be clear that KR or SA or what ever future improvement does not change your game play in that sense.

Secondly, I am still paying the same I did 10 years ago.

Thirdly, my Classic client and KR crashes are occuring in a 1:1.5 ratio I would think. Stable is a relative term. I can not go through a day of playing without crashing either the KR or the classic client. Most issues are next related to the servers, not the clients.

Again, if you look at it from a constructive point of view, why not make the future work? In fact, most people with recent model computers and modern software have to run emulation software or run clients in "XP mode" to even make them work. It is not like you are still running word perfect 3.0, or adobe acrobat 1.0. ICQ 1.1 anyone? come on....

And perhaps yes, there is a cultish side to this game, but as long as we are not commiting mass suicide, or jump on a passing comet, perhaps we can take our cult to the next level?

It would suck though that someone would have to rewrite a whole new scripting tool... and who would do that for this old, cult game.. (I know, I should not have typed this here... I am sure i just started the flame war i was so careful in trying to avoid )

 

[Vyal]

We need a sticky thread on these forums "Ideas to make UO better". Then maybe the devs will listen to the people that PAY for the game every month and get their heads out of their own @**'s.

O wait this isn't even UO's freaking site ! It's a crappy stratics forum.

 

[It Lives]

Oh I will use Kr It has its uses.

However, Kr is not what I want.

I play " modern games " other than UO so its really not about "habit" or being non-adaptive.

Its about getting exactly what I want to pay for, I want 2d UO.

I am glad to have that choice and will pay for accounts as long as I have that choice.

The Team has seen that there are many many players out there that see it that way too, you cant ignore it sorry.

10 years of human habit, not kr, has kept the game in place..you sure as hell cant ignore that!

 

[Gildar]

You "<insert client here> is hurting UO" are holding UO back.

Yes, the 2D client is limited in what technology can be added to it before you might as well start a whole new client.
Yes, the KR client has a very different style for a lot of artwork than the 2D client had.
Yes, both client crash way more often than they should.
No, UO isn't doomed to failure if EA supports both clients.
Yes, EA would have more flexibility in what server-side changes they could do if they made a whole new client.
No, neither the 2D nor KR client was built in a way that really allows those substantial server-side changes to be made.
Yes, supporting two clients does take up more resources than just supporting one client.
No, EA shouldn't narrow the focus of UO just because it would be more efficient at making the people who like that focus happy.
Yes, EA should continue to support as wide a variety of playstyles as they do now.

 

[Vyal]

Oh I will use Kr It has its uses.

However, Kr is not what I want.

I play " modern games " other than UO so its really not about "habit" or being non-adaptive.

Its about getting exactly what I want to pay for, I want 2d UO.

I am glad to have that choice and will pay for accounts as long as I have that choice.

The Team has seen that there are many many players out there that see it that way too, you cant ignore it sorry.

10 years of human habit, not kr, has kept the game in place..you sure as hell cant ignore that!

Dude you so so so wrong, the thing that kept this game alive is that this is what people started playing when MMO's came out and have been playing.
But I also want to say that those people only make up a portion of the people who keep the game alive the other people are the people who like the game for PvP but even that is getting pretty old.

How long can you keep playing fantasy games with elves and trolls and stupid crap like that?

There was one 2D game engine I saw during my time working on vbgore that started out as a fantasy game and they eventually added a new client and servers that was the same engine but it wasn't fantasy they turned it into a 2D shooter with robots people could ride in and ships and things like that. And kept the old game but also gave people the option of playing the other game with the same engine.
Just to keep the thing alive and it worked out well for them.

 

[It Lives]

Do I know the exact reasons why UO has lasted this long? nope.

Will kr work out? I Dont know. My opinion is (No It Wont).

As long as I can play 2d Ill be paying for accounts.

 

[Smokin]

There, I said it.

I am getting tired of it. And I am not talking so much about the interface as I am the graphics. I just don't understand people. How can nostalgia be this powerful? Nostalgia is a great thing but at it's higher levels it gets in the way of progress. For most practical people, nostalgia lasts about 20 minutes. I used to do this. Every now and then I would get really excited and pop in Ultima III and after about 15 minutes I just can't do it. It makes me sad, because those are classics, but it is hard waiting for disks to load, etc.

Anytime something new comes out, people hate it. Windows 95, 98, XP, and now Vista. Now people think XP is great. They did not think that when it was first released. But at least enough of the populace gave it a fair shot and it eventually it held up. Yes I have Vista and it works fine.'

And yes I play Ultima Online KR 3D. Why? Because there are some seriously good macro options, the graphics don't look like they are from 10 years ago, I can play fullscreen on my widescreen monitor and have a very large playfield with windows to mix and match. Yes there are some bugs and there are some bugs in 2D as well. But anyone who tells me the artwork is better in 2D is delusional. Yes I know KR has it's bugs but my goodness, 2D runs in 800 x 600. I have a 22" monitor. There is no way I am going to squint my eyes to play this game. And fullscreen has stretching unless you want to enable scaling which screws up other games.

It is fear.

We all want to hold on to something familiar. It is a fatal flaw in the human spirit. Anything different and we panic.

It is you people, who may or may not own Pentium III 800 computers that are holding this game back.

First off, I still prefer older versions of Windows over XP, unfortunately because they no longer update with security and other things I am forced to use XP, which will probably be shut off for updates soon also.

Now as far as KR goes, I personally do not like the art, nor do I like WoW art, they look completely silly. KR to me is really blurry and I do not like the way my character floats around the screen especially when mounted. I also find the sound way off, ever listen to yourself when you walk and move, the timing is completely wrong. As for the interface, well if I wanted to learn a new system and game why wouldn't I just buy a new game.

The reason I have not switched to a 3D game is because I have a vision problem, I only have one working eye. This leaves me with no depth perception, I do not see 3D in real life basically, so when its forced on me I get headaches and all kinds of problems. I wouldn't be shocked if many people that don't like KR might have similar problems yet they don't know about it.

So its not all about nostalgia, you also say its holding the game back, that is wrong. What is holding the game back is EA not putting real money into it and when they do they scrap the ideas or force out unfinished products, but your stuck with a catch 22, So either make a completely new game based off UO or just update 2D with some of the things KR has.

Do you know a lot of people quit playing because they didn't like KR and liked the old 3D better, but did not like 2D. Its true.

Ah well, they are going to do what ever they want anyways, if it comes down to getting rid of 2D then I most likely will have to quit. So just remember when your forcing KR down peoples throats and saying that 2D is holding the game back,

It might also be keeping it alive.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Windows update is an imperative feature to a working computer.

Thats not true, they often break working computers. There are millions of threads in tech support forums including their own to that effect.

I'm not sure what the hell you mean.

I mean that windows updates usually stop something working while giving you something else that you didn't want, much like KR when compared to 2D.

Do you know anything about operating and maintaining a computer, or even a network for that matter?

Yes.

 

[4th3ist]

Thats not true, they often break working computers. There are millions of threads in tech support forums including their own to that effect.



I mean that windows updates usually stop something working while giving you something else that you didn't want, much like KR when compared to 2D.



Yes.

Once again you are just trolling.. you have no real rebuttal to my statements.. Show me these tech support forums. I have been using windows update since its inception. I format my computer bi-annually and the first thing I do after hardware driver installations, is windows update. Never had a problem with it.

Yes, there are things in windows update that arn't nesseccary or imperative to operating a PC. I don't ever install some of the features. However, most of the updates ARE in fact critical to running a stable machine..

 

[donjn]

Thats not true, they often break working computers. There are millions of threads in tech support forums including their own to that effect.

I work at a school and we have 650 users includes labs for students. We cannot afford to not use Windows update because of potential security risk.

Also, not one update has ever made things run worse on our network or any computers for that matter.

We actually use Windows Vista..

 

[4th3ist]

The reason I have not switched to a 3D game is because I have a vision problem, I only have one working eye. This leaves me with no depth perception, I do not see 3D in real life basically, so when its forced on me I get headaches and all kinds of problems. I wouldn't be shocked if many people that don't like KR might have similar problems yet they don't know about it.

That sucks. Sorry to hear this. I don't see KR as '3D' though. It has the same viewing angle as 2D. Perhaps it is something else giving you a headache about '3D' KR. The refresh rate could be the problem. It is the other way around for me. The screen updates 10 times per second in 2D, and 30 times per second in KR. I forced my KR client up to 60Hz for even more smoothness..

 

[kelmo]

I am confused now. Is it 2D or windows holding every thing back? *drinks kool-aid*

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Once again you are just trolling.. you have no real rebuttal to my statements.. Show me these tech support forums.

No, you are dragging this thread off topic by arguing with every word I post. If you want to see them google them. In fact even Uhall had multiple threads on SP 3 when it came out.

I have been using windows update since its inception. I format my computer bi-annually and the first thing I do after hardware driver installations, is windows update. Never had a problem with it.

Then you are either very lucky or lying. If you've never had a problem with it, why are you formatting it bi-annually?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I work at a school and we have 650 users includes labs for students. We cannot afford to not use Windows update because of potential security risk.

Also, not one update has ever made things run worse on our network or any computers for that matter.

We actually use Windows Vista..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=windows+update+reboot+loop&aq=3&oq=windows+update+rebo

It may not affect everyone but its sticking your head in the sand to say they have never caused a problem.

 

[sablestorm]

Runs better? I am MUCH quicker then anyone on 2d I have met. Period. KR runs twice as fast. Upgrade you're computer.

Upgrade my computer for a video game? Right. I have more important things to spend my money on. Don't even get started on the month fee either because for entertainment, $12.99 a month is a good deal. So instead of taking your advice, why don't you give me your computer and I'll see if I like KR then. I heard it looks better on a better machine, but I suspect I'll still hate the artwork and will play 2d anyway.

 

[4th3ist]

I format bi-annually because I have a 1TB backup drive with everything important, and ANY computer will run better after a clean format. Just because I format every six months doesn't mean windows update is the culprit. I download lots of torrents, I browse the internet a lot, hell.. My computer is always connected to the internet. Sometimes things slip by my network behind a router w/ firewall AND symantec anti virus corporate edition.

Formating my computer and re-installing the essentials takes me 4-6 hours depending on how often I check the screen. This is a small price to pay for 100% efficency in running my rig. I take a lot of pride in having a very nice computer and I do EVERYTHING nessecary to maintain complete stability, including starting fresh every now and then.

My backup drive now, that NEVER needs to be formatted. I spend a lot of time making sure nothing "contaminated" comes in contact with that drive.

However, all of this is irrelevant and I don't feel like I need to explain my actions to you.
Windows Update is not broken. SP3 may have caused many issues WHEN IT WAS NEW, because it was NEW! Every piece of software that is released has problems initially. Windows 98, ME, 2000, Every single video game ever released (Thats why there are patches), you name it. It all ships with problems. Its impossible to guarentee 100% compatibility across all platforms when EVERY computer is different hardware.

Please stop arguing this point to me. I don't care how many UHallers have problems with windows update, because every time I see someone asking tech questions here they have less knowledge about administering a computer then some of the children learning in elementry school. No offense meant here. But if Windows Update was so bad, it wouldn't be supported anymore.


And also GOD, why wouldn't I argue with everything you say? You're name is Lord GOD and mine is 4th3ist.

I have no ill will for you sir. But I strongly disagree with you on this point and feel you are spreading false words about a really great system that streamlines the updating process and gets new computers up and running in a jiffy. Cheers.

 

[4th3ist]

Upgrade my computer for a video game? Right. I have more important things to spend my money on. Don't even get started on the month fee either because for entertainment, $12.99 a month is a good deal. So instead of taking your advice, why don't you give me your computer and I'll see if I like KR then. I heard it looks better on a better machine, but I suspect I'll still hate the artwork and will play 2d anyway.

Actually, if you live in the Detroit metro area, I would be glad to help you build a machine that is "right for you" at no extra cost to you. You might find its not as expensive as you think. A few weeks savings only. You can even come see KR run on my machine if thats what you fancy.

 

[4th3ist]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=windows+update+reboot+loop&aq=3&oq=windows+update+rebo

It may not affect everyone but its sticking your head in the sand to say they have never caused a problem.

Mmm. The problem you referenced is a problem with Vista, according to the first hit on google.

This is you're problem. Vista is garbage (opinion). I'm not a naysayer on a bandwagon. I had a very nice laptop that ran Vista and should of ate it for breakfast, but when I reverted to XP I had substantially better stability and much much better performance in games. I also have another computer (not my primary) that dual-boots XP and Vista.. Same problems. Vista is just not what its cut out to be. Windows 7 is already in beta and slated for release soon. I think even M$ knows that they dropped the ball on Vista.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

donjin, you probably have 80% of the Stratics readers against you now. (Which, by the way, are not 80% of the players.) 77 answers in only 3 hours off-peak time. Blimey!

Basically what you say is not so wrong, although the way you say it will make people hate you.

The problem is, the clients before SA have been more or less crap. KR has much better graphics than 2D, but it has a lot of graphical (and technical) flaws nevertheless which keep me from using it. (I REALLY tried 3 times and gave up, cause the client is full of bugs, targeting is a pain in the arse, you die more often, and certain tasks like house placement and decoration cannot be done at all in KR.)

I find the 2D client slightly annoying as well. It is choppy, my eyes hurt after an hour of playing, and the graphics are 10 years old. But unfortunately there isn't a good alternative until now.

You're right about one thing: Many people hate change. Sometimes you literally have to force the good onto people. Let's all hope that the SA client really is good. Because it wouldn't be a good idea to introduce another crappy client to us.

(P.S.: Your comparison with Windows Vista is flawed. Vista really is the most crappy operating system on the market. I cannot understand why anybody would buy it. Ahhh... yes! Microsoft forces it onto people cause you can hardly buy a new computer without Vista. It's a scandal!)

 

[Kratos Aurion]

I am confused now. Is it 2D or windows holding every thing back? *drinks kool-aid*

I guess I'll be the first to say both with no coherent explaination as to why (even though I have my opinions)..

 

[Bara]

This is difficult for me.

I essentially agree with some of the op's core ideas. But I strongly disagree with the tone and some of the assumptions he has made.

I think a civilized discussion is the only way that the two sides of the fence will ever come to terms, ever.

But it's exausting, and I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, no matter how well I try to word my thoughts and feelings.



I guess at the core of my feelings; I recognize that uo is a retro game. I recognize that, wheither people realise it or not, they are attracted to the retro elements of it, and will cling to it. It's a mix of many things. Genuine tastes and preference for many, and unwiligness to change for some (you know you're out there), nostalga for others, and for many, many, it's simply what they are used to.

In my opinion, the original uo interface is extremely clunky and unintuitive. I believe that we got really, really good at it over the years. To the point that many of us don't realize how awkward it truly is. We grew used to it's limitations, and third party programs were invented to help us overcome it's inherent limitations.

The graphics... We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I highly prefer the graphics of Kingdom Reborn. That's just me. Though, I have a strong feeling that if you were to go out, into the streets, with a printed screenshot of the same scene in both KR and 2d, that a majority of random passerbyers would choose the Kingdom Reborn image as the superior one. For what it's worth.

I believe that it's a great detrement for EA to have to support two completely different clients. It's ridiculous, in the big picture. No other game does this. It's massively taxing on resources.

I hope, deeply, that the Stygan abyss client will have options that will allow 2d lovers to feel at home and allow those of us who like Kingdom reborn to feel at home too.

I believe that SA will have hotbars on it. and I believe it will be full screen.

I'm asking all of you to seriously try to accept this. I've seen many of your screenshots.... I know, you know, we all know that you strew your skills and abilities on the bottom of your screen, just like SA will. Most of you keep your automap in the top right of your screen, just like SA will.

Just try this time guys, for real. Remember way back when you started. You didn't automatically understand the complexities of the macro system. It took you time to understand all this (to really even understand the need of it). The complex third party programs that 2d uo needs to function weren't even invented yet. All of these things took time, and UO didn't offer many options back then, but you made the best with it, and you learned how to make it work...

Please try that again.

 

[Smokin]

That sucks. Sorry to hear this. I don't see KR as '3D' though. It has the same viewing angle as 2D. Perhaps it is something else giving you a headache about '3D' KR. The refresh rate could be the problem. It is the other way around for me. The screen updates 10 times per second in 2D, and 30 times per second in KR. I forced my KR client up to 60Hz for even more smoothness..

Yes thats true, although I think the background is 3D or something like that with 2D sprites on it. I really don't know. What I actually meant was that I cannot switch to a New game because of my limitations and that maybe people who don't like KR might have a vision problem that bothers them too. I didn't mean the exact same thing as my problem or that it was causing me problems with KR. I am sure it has something to do with it but that is more because my eye does twice the work and gets tired more, so when things are not crisp I have problems.

Another thing that could be effecting peoples opinions is colour blindness. I know many times in game I have trouble seeing the dark blue speech people use, but others find it really easy to see. Who knows maybe the major colour dominance in KR is a common colour that people are blind too.

 

[sablestorm]

Actually, if you live in the Detroit metro area, I would be glad to help you build a machine that is "right for you" at no extra cost to you. You might find its not as expensive as you think. A few weeks savings only. You can even come see KR run on my machine if thats what you fancy.

Nope, I don't live there. The point is, that few weeks extra savings is being kept in the event of unexpected financial burdens in the near future. If I wanted to play visually stellar games, I'd go play one of the newer MMOs. I'm quite happy playing UO on the machines I have. Furthermore, I have KR on this machine and I still don't like the graphics. I enjoy the look much better in 2d. Now if they can improve upon that in SA, then I'll consider switching, but if it looks worse then no way.

 

[donjn]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=windows+update+reboot+loop&aq=3&oq=windows+update+rebo

It may not affect everyone but its sticking your head in the sand to say they have never caused a problem.

When did I ever say that Windows Updates have never caused a problem to other users?

All I did was provide evidence that in my world, we have had no issues yet.

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

*laughs*

If it weren't for us loyal "2D People", UO would probably no longer exist.

Why should we switch from a client that we have actively supported for over a decade...to something fugly which has no relationship whatsoever with Sosaria?

 

[donjn]

*laughs*

If it weren't for us loyal "2D People", UO would probably no longer exist.

Why should we switch from a client that we have actively supported for over a decade...to something fugly which has no relationship whatsoever with Sosaria?

Relationship with Sosaria? Huh?

Are you guys expecting a small picture of Lord British embedded into the UI somewhere? Or an ankh?

 

[donjn]

Some of you are so passionate you forget that earlier in the thread I said I was sorry for coming off too harsh..

 

[donjn]

donjin, you probably have 80% of the Stratics readers against you now. (Which, by the way, are not 80% of the players.) 77 answers in only 3 hours off-peak time. Blimey!

Its just me. I tend to bring out the passion in people. It was not my intention to get everyone all riled up, but nevertheless, people will keep responding to my original post over and over again, without seeing my apologies later in this thread..

I should not have said "you 2d people". It is very derogatory.

 

[Tom_Builder]

If nothing will ever "feel" like UO, then stop reaching for a face-lift. If you don't, then you'll not only have a product that feels nothing like it should, but you'll alienate everyone in the process.

I'd rather have all the KR guys rallying for UO2 than some face-lift. Fix the game from the ground up. Don't fix it with a patch-work job.

I agree 100%. Why try to change UO in to UO2, just make UO2. I never understood why they didnt make UO2 instead of AoS. With AoS it became a whole new game anyhow. I still miss the old item system, give me back my silver vanq katana. NOW!!!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

KR is much better than Lord Blackthorn's Revenge.

Unless I am mistaken, the old 3D client was released with Third Dawn, not LBR.

But I agree. KR is better than old 3D by a mile!

 

[Black Sun]

On a side note, I've noticed a lot of people complaining about either one client or the other hurting their eyes after using it.

Being an optician, and I'm willing to offer up my services to attempt to help those among us suffering from UO related eye strain. Perhaps it's not a problem with the client art, but rather just a slight case of hyperopia. A slight prescription tweak might be just what's needed to make everyone's gaming experience more enjoyable.

 

[donjn]

On a side note, I've noticed a lot of people complaining about either one client or the other hurting their eyes after using it.

Being an optician, and I'm willing to offer up my services to attempt to help those among us suffering from UO related eye strain. Perhaps it's not a problem with the client art, but rather just a slight case of hyperopia. A slight prescription tweak might be just what's needed to make everyone's gaming experience more enjoyable.

My eye hurts when I play 2D.

Can you proscribe me some Vicodin for the pain?

Thanks.

 

[Uvtha]

It is fear.

Yeah, what else could it be... *yawn*

 

[Uvtha]

Let's throw graphics out the window because we are not going to agree. All I can say is that I appreciate "good art" and I know it when I see it.

Please don't make me post some of the item graphics from KR. Because they look like a chimp drew them.

 

[Canucklehead73]

Well I for one am all for moving UO forward in any way, especially graphics wise, becuase that will be the road to success and subscriptions. Anyone who states that they play UO for other reasons than graphics, implying that UO does not need to upgrade the UI, are simply spouting rhetoric as they have no constructive reasoning. Every concievable aspect of UO gameplay can be meshed with up to date graphics, visual effects and functionality.

they simply have to make it work. lol

That being said...

KR is not the answer (so far).

KR was rushed. KR was buggy. Gameplay aspects were altered too much.

Targeting blows completely... Don;t get me started on the mousewheel blunder.

The absoloute ruin of KR was that they "fully" released a client that ran like s stinky pile of kerap! It lagged, it crashed, it stuttered, creatures animations were gimpy, a group of dragons two screens away roared and it sounded like they were on top of you...

There were so many negatives about KR it was dead before they could patch a thing.

I do agree with the OP to a point tho... Alot of posters will state any idiotic thing to back up 2D no matter what the false logic says, these people are indeed holding UO back, no doubt about it.

What I do hope, is that the devs are really paying attention to the real constuctive criticism of KR, and actually learn from thier mistakes and put forth a client that plays like UO AND looks like it was designed in the year 2000+

Lets hope SA is on the right path!

Because if we do not, all the golden UO fans will not have a game to play, as it will eventually be surpassed by games who learn from UO's depth and soul and add beautiful artwork to seal the deal and really put UO down for good.