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Would you tolerate a player harassing another player?
- Thread starter Jirel of Joiry
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- Watchers 7
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Freja....can we fire bonnie and hire you?...lol
Making vvv available on all shards would make fel a housing shard only, and would keep everyone playing for the most part on one shard. And it doesnt force anything to pvp that doesnt want to.
it could be eaily done with two announcements......if you dont want to pvp dont join vvv and dont heal/cure et al anyone who has a VVV tag . Done...easy
Making vvv available on all shards would make fel a housing shard only, and would keep everyone playing for the most part on one shard. And it doesnt force anything to pvp that doesnt want to.
it could be eaily done with two announcements......if you dont want to pvp dont join vvv and dont heal/cure et al anyone who has a VVV tag . Done...easy
Merlin
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If the game didn't need Trammel, Siege would be more popular.
I'm all about supporting Fel and PVP, but the game needs both facets at this point. Everything else is all debating semantics and history of UO that has long past.
I'm all about supporting Fel and PVP, but the game needs both facets at this point. Everything else is all debating semantics and history of UO that has long past.
it has totally evolved away from the OP's bs and toward ways to change UO..... and there by reduce player difficulties
I know tiny shards don't represent the real UO. Coming from legends, small shards tend to be a different animal. People tend to know each other and work together for survival. But it's the same dynamic on a smaller scale. AND "I do know that", people voted the Trammel issue dead long ago with their feet and wallet, lol. The Devs said so, if not for Trammel UO would have died. It was bleeding players massively when they had a choice in games and UO wasn't the sole game anymore. They went to games where they wouldn't be hassled. On most shards that aren't over populated like Atlantic you can't give Fel property away. Maybe a castle if you want to take next to nothing for it. Who ya trying to kid? I'm not reading old stories, I was THERE lol. I don't give a rat's butt if people wanna run around fel all day trying to find someone to fight. Doesn't bother me a bit. But the whole player justice thing was a complete joke and when anyone tries to act like Trammel wasn't a God send to UO I know they're full of it. My first home was a small in the center of a red neighborhood and we got along fine. Nobody wants to start trouble in their own hood. But that doesn't mean the red vs blue or PKs in general was EVER an even playing field.The deck was always stacked up in favor of reds BIG TIME. It's a spicy fun thing when you hold all the cards. Not so much fun if your a crafter or whatever just trying to do his own thing. Or a new solo player with no friends yet trying to create a character. Lots of people start a game, get walked all over the first week and move on. That was pretty much the story preTrammel. Hey play any form of UO you want. I'm all for it! But anyone thinking this game would still exist without Trammel is completely way off base. Legends of Kesmai actually dealt with murders in an excellent way. There it worked fairly well. The only other games I've seen that have active PvP is where when you lose there's zero loss involved. Where people actually just have fun in the competition. Sure with insurance if I die or not it means nothing. This still has done nothing to revive Fel. I'm not placed in this game to make your play style more enjoyable, lol. I'm here to play *my* game. That business template doesn't work. Proven.
Now there is a blast from the past. My grandfathers wallet hated when I played that back in the day when you paid by the hour (I think AOL? Maybe CompuServe)
God I loved that game. LoK and The Realm and then UO made up my childhood.
The damage of splitting the community was done long long long ago, on top of that the design focus has shifted toward artifical goal (get event item, grind for rare drops) centric game play to ever have the game be like it once way. There's no point in it now.
To be clear I think a pvp switch would also have been a terrible idea, it just would have been better than just making a whole new copy of the world, which completely destroyed every physical community that was present at the time, and created a facet bias between the players that still rages to this day.
That's only assuming that no changes would have been made in tram place, there were plenty of different changes that could have been made to balance power, offer some safety and not destroy communities and styles of gameplay. What was needed was a tweak, what we got was just a complete redo.
I still don't really know that UO would have died anyway, there are a lot of people who like this game enough to keep it going regardless of the state it's in. Even if it had I think that to me, philosophically it would be better for the idea to burn out than to alter it so much that its basically a different game, one that is in fairly stark opposition to the game's original direction. We all would have moved on and found the next thing we love.
Tram may not have ended UO, but it absolutely was the end of the original social experiment, which to me was easily the best part of what the game ever was.
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@FrejaSP that's what Gordon Walton himself said he would do if he could go back, but it would also depend on having fiscal resources and time. Even the Executive Producer has to answer to somebody. I'm not trying to be argumentative Capt. Lucky, but I'm not sure I understand how you came to the conclusion that Felucians would still be ruining Trammelians lives if Trammel was located not an another facet but on other servers.
Now, this other idea to use VvV to essentially turn Trammel into a consensual PvP facet holds less merit. Not because it would be bad necessarily, go ahead and try to talk the powers that be into it. But it would be a day late and a dollar short, and PKs would still not be able to sheer the non-consenting sheep. And they're not coming back anyway. I loved 1997 too you guys but you can't get 1997 back, I'm sorry. And that's not a sarcastic sorry.
Now personally I think UO is more fun than EVE, but EVE does have a good design there. EVE Online did it right with a handful of large, centralized pockets of empire space (Trammel essentially), with huge, sweeping lawless expanses between and beyond those pockets (Felucca). But out in lawless space, corporations sometimes set up stations and police their borders to make space safer for traders and such. All of it takes place in the same server space (facet), and it helps encourage many empire space pilots to venture away from the egg eventually, because player-controlled space has lots of interesting things to see and do.
Problem is, you couldn't have applied that to UO. The technology wasn't there. Even if it were, Walton could not have talked EA into that kind of investment. CCP got to do what it wanted because it bought itself out of Simon & Schuster. So we're back to what would have been nice, and what had to be done. No matter what we think about the split, it doubled the player base. It doesn't matter whether I liked it or not. My choices were to adapt or move on.
Now, this other idea to use VvV to essentially turn Trammel into a consensual PvP facet holds less merit. Not because it would be bad necessarily, go ahead and try to talk the powers that be into it. But it would be a day late and a dollar short, and PKs would still not be able to sheer the non-consenting sheep. And they're not coming back anyway. I loved 1997 too you guys but you can't get 1997 back, I'm sorry. And that's not a sarcastic sorry.
Now personally I think UO is more fun than EVE, but EVE does have a good design there. EVE Online did it right with a handful of large, centralized pockets of empire space (Trammel essentially), with huge, sweeping lawless expanses between and beyond those pockets (Felucca). But out in lawless space, corporations sometimes set up stations and police their borders to make space safer for traders and such. All of it takes place in the same server space (facet), and it helps encourage many empire space pilots to venture away from the egg eventually, because player-controlled space has lots of interesting things to see and do.
Problem is, you couldn't have applied that to UO. The technology wasn't there. Even if it were, Walton could not have talked EA into that kind of investment. CCP got to do what it wanted because it bought itself out of Simon & Schuster. So we're back to what would have been nice, and what had to be done. No matter what we think about the split, it doubled the player base. It doesn't matter whether I liked it or not. My choices were to adapt or move on.
Knock yourself out. I'll just put them on ignore and move on. Why don't you do something constructive with your game time, but hey its your life Bro.
The day they make VvV shardwide is the day I close all of my accounts. I have ZERO desire to go to an EM event and have to figure out who is or isn't in VvV should I decide to rez them or heal someone or their pet... NOT doing so will cost me "points" in the new system for healing... therefore costing precious chance to get a drop.... ON MY OWN shard. GIVE a rats about getting them on any other shard. I care about my shard and I really like and appreciate every drop I get on my shard... And having to try to pick and chose who I can and can't heal would be a royal pain..... not to mention that every jerk around is going to take advantage of that.. because just accidentally healing one of the SoBs is going to make you open to attack. I already can't play in Fel because of the number of jerks on my own shard who cheat and script and hack... I surely don't need to have to worry about that crap in Trammel. It's bad enough I have to deal with the 4 or 5 idiots who multi-box with 4 characters each...
I have time to enjoy little in the game anymore but one of the things I look forward to every week is getting together with my friends and attending the EM events. Having that ruined by a bunch of PvP and crap to disrupt it more than they already do with all the petty bickery and spell spamming and everything else that they do to disrupt things and keep folk from getting drops would be the last straw.
I did my years in Factions and I enjoyed some of it quite a bit.. but the level of cheating and hacking was obvious... and it just took all the fun out of it. Impossible to defend a base when they could completely ignore anything in their path... when they would put alts in your Faction and kill you from the inside and the outside.
IMO the game was a lot more fun when the focus was more on community and less on items and stuff... was more about getting together with a group of your friends to accomplish a goal. Whether it was something the DEVs put in like the invasion of cities... or something that other players did like driving the Orcs out of Skara Brae. It wasn't about the gear.... no one had anything super awesome that you couldn't have yourself and there was no need to "steal" anything or take anything from them... a valorite heavy archer set was just that. Sure he might have had a vanquishing bow or something but meh... It was more about the fight... less about gear... had a lot to do with how you used your character not what your character used.
But anymore 99% of the game is soloable by many folk (though I still can't even solo a champ spawn)... back then it took a guild to kill just a regular dragon... one Paragon Balron was a team effort to kill... guilds could spend hours trying to clear a dungeon..... now 1 or 2 people can kill every dragon in Destard in less than 10 min... THAT IMO is what is killing the game. Hasn't got anything to do with PvP.
It's game time, by default it's not constructive.
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Ok, have to admit that made me chuckle a little irl
I like Bonnie but if I was younger and not living so far away, I would had tryed to become a part of the Dev Team many years ago.
I do believe it would scare the hell out of a lot to see me in Bonnies chair as I would try hard to changes the game so we got the spirit from old days back but with respect for both the good and the evil community.
It would sure make Fel a more peaceful place as the PvP'ers would use all facets. I believe Fel would get a more RP minded community.
I do believe it should be impossible to turn orange in Trammel zone unless you hit the button, join VvV. It should not stop you from healing/cure VvV players as long they are not flaget for being active in a VvV battle.
If flaget, you should not be able to heal/cure them, you would have to drop heal/cure potions for them and gate them to a place with healers to res them. We can't have non PvP'ers and young players cry, that they become orange and was killed in Trammel. They should be safe.
Yes it would, lol. To return to a system that failed long ago and has no hopes of succeeding means we'd all be hunting for free shards to play in a month. Would probably be the shortest career of a lead in gaming history, lol. As far as I know anyone can go on SP and build a house and keep their current home. If anyone was the least bit interested in that failed preTrammel system they would be all over that. But SP is even deader than Legends. So there it is. Your own example of 6 reds riding up on a miner was the absolute truth. That's the way it worked. But since you *knew* somebody they allowed you to continue without being harassed. And if your miner sucks it up, keeps his mouth shut about being ganked by 6 PKs, they may not res kill him after they're done looting him. What a hoot! THAT's you example of how well a preTrammel system could work? Seriously? I laughed a good while over that one. At least you would certainly fix any over crowding concerns on Atlantic and in a short period of time everyone would be able to place a castle. I guess that would be neat
We disagree from time to time, but well said. A silver bullet of clarity. *Bows with grand flourish*
I would not return it to pre trammel days, guess you do not read half of my posting
In old days, there was not room for the ones, who did want to do mining or monster beating without other players attacking them.
In my perfect world, they may risk to see someone fighting near them or even around them but they could still go on mining or killing their monsters. We need a lot more respect between playstyles.
No they can't, they can only have one char slot, they can't recall, they can't gate out and in Dungeon and T2A and a few other places. A lot have very hard accepting this.
The ones I know was someone who had killed me in the past.
About looting and res killing, that did rarely happen to me. Why? you may ask. Because I act different than you when I die. I show my ghost, do not yell alot OooOOoooO and I listen to what they say. I will very fast see if they are nasty kids, I can't interact with. In that case I will wait to they are gone. But in 9 out of 10 cases, they will tell me to wait, telling they will res me or telling me to find a healer.
When I comes back, I will stay away from my body, say hi and wait for them to allow me to loot.
This are the reason, they next time, they see me, will act friendly, not gank me, maybe ask if I want to dance (fight) and help me with PvP advices. Respect is earned!
I never said Pre Trammel worked for all, I just don't like the way it is placed on same shards. You need one of 2.
1. Trammel shards (Trammel ruleset on all facets) and Felucca shards (Fel ruleset on all facet (not Siege ruleset)) It is to late for this unless you make Fel copy (inc chars and houses) of the crowned shards and make the less crowned shards house owners vote for Fel or Tram ruleset and then give the unhappy a little time to transfer to different shard. Let them have 2 houses, one on a Fel/Siege shard and one on a Trammel shard. Give Siege Fel ruleset.
2. Keep Fel as it is, Make VvV work on all Trammel facets too but only battle towns in Fel zone. See my note in other post about rules.
I don't see why this would make anyone quit, it's not like it would send you back to Pre Trammel, where you could be attacked everywhere.
No, I would probably just leave. Though this has never happened to me ever in any game I've played. Though for the most part I keep to myself.
Since we seem to agree your suggestions aren't ever gonna happen I guess enough said! Vote on a Fel rule set for each shard? Seriously? Other than SP where would that work? lol. It seems you would like to make your shard much easier to play and give everyone else a much harder shard to play, lol. Typical. But at any rate that vote would be a major waste of time. Fel has a Fel rule set, good enough! Let's not just make Fel an empty place, with some hard work we can make the entire shard an empty place! lol You crack me up. At any rate giving SP a fel rule set would be fine to me. It would finally end this nonsense. No more excuses, you want that go to SP. But still no one would play there. But all said and done this is a waste of time even talking about it as I doubt Broadsword would like to put themselves outta a job promoting a Fel type rule set everywhere so I'm done talking about this. Some things might be plausible but your ideas are so contrary to what vast amount of UO players want it's really not a realistic option. Have fun talking about this if you want but I'm done. Never gonna happen. Maybe the Fel rule set for SP thing if anyone else on your shard wants it is fine. I could care less about SP. But messing up the real shards and running everyone off isn't ever gonna happen. Keep your Fel junk in Fel. The only reason that junk exists in Fel is to try to get someone to go there in the first place.I would not return it to pre trammel days, guess you do not read half of my posting
In old days, there was not room for the ones, who did want to do mining or monster beating without other players attacking them.
In my perfect world, they may risk to see someone fighting near them or even around them but they could still go on mining or killing their monsters. We need a lot more respect between playstyles.
No they can't, they can only have one char slot, they can't recall, they can't gate out and in Dungeon and T2A and a few other places. A lot have very hard accepting this.
The ones I know was someone who had killed me in the past.
About looting and res killing, that did rarely happen to me. Why? you may ask. Because I act different than you when I die. I show my ghost, do not yell alot OooOOoooO and I listen to what they say. I will very fast see if they are nasty kids, I can't interact with. In that case I will wait to they are gone. But in 9 out of 10 cases, they will tell me to wait, telling they will res me or telling me to find a healer.
When I comes back, I will stay away from my body, say hi and wait for them to allow me to loot.
This are the reason, they next time, they see me, will act friendly, not gank me, maybe ask if I want to dance (fight) and help me with PvP advices. Respect is earned!
I never said Pre Trammel worked for all, I just don't like the way it is placed on same shards. You need one of 2.
1. Trammel shards (Trammel ruleset on all facets) and Felucca shards (Fel ruleset on all facet (not Siege ruleset)) It is to late for this unless you make Fel copy (inc chars and houses) of the crowned shards and make the less crowned shards house owners vote for Fel or Tram ruleset and then give the unhappy a little time to transfer to different shard. Let them have 2 houses, one on a Fel/Siege shard and one on a Trammel shard. Give Siege Fel ruleset.
2. Keep Fel as it is, Make VvV work on all Trammel facets too but only battle towns in Fel zone. See my note in other post about rules.
I don't see why this would make anyone quit, it's not like it would send you back to Pre Trammel, where you could be attacked everywhere.
Much anger I sense in this one..........
Me? Sometimes I should ignore nonsense. I'll give ya that. But I don't get angry. It's a game. But sometimes I read stuff that's so outta the park I just gotta say something, lol. I should be able to resist, but I just can't lol. Are you gonna start following me around?
sorry who are you again???
Were you interested in being specific at all? Reminded me of those FB posts where someone says "This is the worst thing that ever happened to me!" and they leave it hang for a response. Just mildly interested in what your talking about and if you aimed it at me. My bad. Or not. Who knows?
Yep Capt. Lucky really should try PvP so he can get rid of that anger
You don't? I can tell you right now that if my shard were voted to be Fel ruleset I'd quit. I am not moving 10+ accounts to another shard... that's insane the expense alone would be astronomical.... not to mention that I don't give a rats behind about another shard I'm on my home shard... where I intend to stay... Where i know it's history, care about it's history, and "live" my E life. If it were turned to a Fel shard I would be done. Period.
Fel is ok to visit... from time to time.... but a vast majority of the time I have ZERO desire for it or most of the BS that goes on there.
I play UO to relax and "destress".... from long weekends of stressful work... I do NOT play it to panic... to put up with a bunch of children or childish attitude.... nor do I play it to stress out about getting ganked or raided or anything else.
I enjoy hanging out with my friends, decoing, designing, creating things, developing characters, meeting new folk, doing events, both participating, planning, and such... as well as my main enjoyment Role-playing.... and while on occasion that does call for some PvP... it's usually with people who follow rules... who behave in an adult manner... and it most always has a purpose or a goal a start and an end. Sure I like hunting, I like PvM quite a bit... I enjoy fishing, T-hunting, doing trade quests... all sorts of things because UO is a vast universe...
IF Fel vanished tomorrow..... I wouldn't shed one single tear except perhaps for the loss of history that goes with it. All the places that would be lost and unremembered, but outside that I would not miss it.
And I know that I am not alone. There are many who feel the same way just as there are many who would be just as irritated to have their shard voted a Tram shard.
While I'm ok with your proposal about some of the stuff having VvV in all area's is a BIG mistake. You think it's hard to find folk to PvP with now? Imagine trying to search for them on every facet and in every dungeon everywhere... Just because you have all that crap on Siege doesn't mean folk want it anywhere else. I don't see the ability to do that on Siege as a draw for new players there. I've been playing there awhile on and off and I honestly don't ever see anyone at all...
As there is most house land in Trammel zone, I believe they all would vote Trammel and only the large shards like Atlantic would get a copy with Fel only ruleset, so noone there would have to move as both the new and old shard would have chars and houses.
I do however believe it would be to much to make copies of all shards. Last the Trammel players had to move, I believe the Fel players could handle to move this time. Alternative is making VvV on all facets
Yes and that's why we need both Trammel and Fel ruleset shards. I'm not trying to remove Trammel.
Nope but others would. There need to be a place both for Trammel players and Fel players and both do have right to use all the facets for their playstyle.
You want peaceful place, that ok. Others want a dangerous place, that's ok too.
You may believe so, but there would not be more battle towns and PK's was still trapped in Fel if red. The VvV will find some places to fight also they can again fight around player towns. For a PvP'er, it is very boring to PvM in Trammel zone, because there is zero risk for running into enemies.
Siege is not a Fel shard, Siege ruleset is very different in many ways so sadly, it very hard to draw players who will put up with our rules
Your opinion of boring is not shared by most. Sad to say most players don't care to have to constantly look over their shoulders.... they like to go about their business, banksit and shop in peace without worry of being harmed. Many of us enjoy just standing about talking.
Anyone who wanted could have some sort of PvP everywhere and as many of us Role-players can tell you it can be fun... it's called being in a warred group... large alliances formed between like minded individuals fighting and warring other like minded individuals sharing fun and fighting with rules that don't involve much risk but offer the reward of enjoying a good "fair" clean fight. No Ganking, No hacking, no looting, no smack talk... just nice clean fun fighting with a purpose.
But most who "enjoy" the wild west style only do so because they like picking on the weak and lesser skilled..... they like luring lambs to the slaughter because it makes them feel so all that... and they like taking..... and sadly for many years the DEVs and EA did NOTHING to stop most of the horrid behavior and being a low life and a scammer, hacker, cheater, and all around jerk went without punishment.... and infact the VICTIM was punished and told they were to blame for being hacked or scammed... making them bitter and hateful of EA and UO... and over the years as this went on and on and on..... and nothing was done to stop these people they were responsible for driving away thousands of players who would never touch UO ever again. Yet still nothing is done. Years later victims of hacking and scamming are still treated as though they somehow "deserved" the abuse...
And I'm not saying everyone in fel is a jerkwad... or whatever.... but I am saying that many of us won't tolerate that behavior and those few bad apples that go unchecked.... have spoiled it for so many that I don't care what the hell you put in Fel.... or what lame thing they think will entice folk there... it won't. And yes it's just as lame that Tram folk go to Fel and get cheap free Fel Arties from the VvV.... but you know what... if they didn't make the dang things so freaking hard to get for the average joe people wouldn't do that.
But instead the DEVs think it's "fun" to make the game a grind and make it hard as heck to get anything decent.... as well as they feed the greed by making so many "rares" and crap that most folk are just getting fed up... since everything has become a soloists game no one wants to group up and do anything anymore and that includes being in a guild and doing RP things and such because there isn't any "phat" loot in it and they can't make megga billions in gold doing it... so they just don't want to do that because the game has become about making money OUTSIDE the game and not about playing the game for fun.
Everything has become about "what it's worth" and that has not only effected Tram, RP, and PvM but it's effected Fel PvP as well... since everyone wants to make a buck anymore and get the "rare" this and that no one cares about playing the game for fun anymore.
IMO.
edit: So we are left with memories of what the fun was like when we used to have it and we cling to that yet keep grinding away hoping for something to change when it doesn't and hoping to get that uber cool item that will sell for billions of gold and we can relax and have fun but we forgot how to do that because all we can do now is remember what it was and keep grinding and swapping rare stuff for rare stuff and spending and spending and hoping for what once was... in our image of the glory days of UO... which will never come again because no one can agree on what those days were for starters....
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That depend who you speak with, you may not speak with many PvP minded players and a lot gave up UO long ago.
That's not what most PvP'ers want, they want more enemies. They also want it more wild. VvV is much better as you do not choose your enemies, only your allies. You need to see it from the PvP'ers view. They do not want nice clean fun fighting all the time.
They do not need sheeps, they just need enemies. It is not sheeps, who join VvV unless they want the artifacts and the deco. They choose to join, they are not forced. In old days, they was forced to accept non con PvP as there was no Happy shards for them.
That have nothing to do with PvP, you will find hacker, scammer, cheater and other jerks in Trammel too, at least in Fel ruleset, we can punishe them. In Trammel, only choice is to call a GM. We always had very few hacker, scammer, cheater and other jerks on Siege and the ones we did have, did not have it easy.
Don't blame the PvP'ers for that, they did not make the carrots to draw players to Fel or ask for them. It's about time to make the game so both the Trammel and The Fel minded players can enjoy the game without force their playstyle on the other side.
If we make VvV work on all facet, we still have the old war/alliance system so only the ones in the guilds, who like VvV can join it and can make have just nice clean fun fighting with a purpose, it won't give problems, that some are VvV as the guild warring will work for them too but they will have more enemies as all VvV not in alliance is enemies. There may need a color more, so you can see if it is a warring enemy or a VvV non warring enemy. The warring system are great for young PvP'ers, who not yet are ready for more dangerous PvP.
Aren't you extremely vocal in how Fel operates complaining about how you visit fel cities oh so often and how VvV has ruined that for you..you should probably keep your tears and stay in Trammel..
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Didn't say anything about Visiting Fel Cities and/or crying about VvV ruining that.... it has become somewhat annoying to not be able to recall into a city but there are ways around that if you really wanted to get there.....
Wasn't crying about any of that. I'm just saying leave FEL in FEL don't be trying to take your crap to Tram... If I wanted VvV I'd be in VvV and all... and it is just fine staying in FEL. I don't want it in Tram.
MalagAste, it is almost as if you dont understand how VVV works. It could easily be arranged to get a "bene acts" warning either before healing....or prohibiting healing of an orange. Virtually none of the tram towns are used on most shards and it can even be arranged so that unless you are in VVV active towns dont affect you in any way. So with two minor tweaks it could be arranged so that putting VVV on all facets doesnt affect you in any way. Yet you claim you would delete/cancel/ all 20 of your account if this is done.... seriously?? You suggest you would quit UO even if it has no affect on you or your friends...with all due respect....I call ********!
She says she's cancelling her account to almost ever new idea or something she doesn't agree with..
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so people who don't want to have anything to do with the crap have to be penalized by having to deal with pop ups every 5 min in the middle of trying to stay alive at an event so some 5 people who care about VvV can disrupt the events more than they already do as well as block up Trammel towns too and further grief people at other events in tram... and don't bs me that it wouldn't happen since we all know full well it would.
- So because you don't want to see any fighting around you, no one should be able to join VvV on all facets?
- If made so you get a "bene acts" warning either before healing.... and you can set it in options, so you do not get that the popup but get a massage, that you can't heal a VvV flaged char, I don't see the problem.
- As you won't be VvV, you won's have any problems. If the VvV are doing the event and not fighting each others, you can heal them and they can heal you.
- If 5 VvV decide, they wand to fight other VvV at the event, it should be ok as all VvV choose to join VvV or not, it's not like in Faction, where the whole guild had to join.
- If a VvV want to do the event without VvV fights, he can leave VvV 3 days before the event and join after or move his skills to a non VvV char before the event.
- Why would the Trammel towns become battle towns, they have the Governor system. Why would they grief non VvV and how in Trammel towns, they can only attack other VvV, who won't mind it, else they was not VvV.
I understand, you don't want to join VvV and you don't want to PvP, that's fair enough, no one will be forcing you to do it.
I understand, you do not want to see others join VvV on all facets and get some fun. That's not fair, why should they be forced to your playstyle and your kind of fun.
Why do you have right to force your playstyle on PvP players, they are not forcing their playstyle on you unless you go to Fel, that is made for non con PvP.
Why do you believe there will be more grief in Trammel, you really have to explain that, because non you had said so far make sense.
OMG are you really being such a baby....if you cant have things exactly your way you will quit and take your ball home? ...That is what I am hearing??....it is all about you and your experience??,..screw what anyone else wants??? Please tell me I am misunderstanding you and you arent actually saying this!
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Keep PvP in Fel. Leave Trammel alone. Cause Trammel has realistically all the players in it is for a reason. We don't want PvP in Trammel. It's all about forcing a failed play style on on the vast majority who don't want it. Don't want to deal with it. "Oh it won't effect you folks at all!". Bull. The Devs have done all they can do to support PvP without destroying the base of where all the money comes from. I really have no problem with PvP in Fel. If that's not working that should tell ya something. But don't start mucking with the rule set that keeps the lights burning in UO. It's never gonna happen but every now and then I'm compelled to throw some people some reality checks. Smell the coffee. Especially when they take an insulting tone with some who makes perfect sense. Complete intolerance for some they call completely intolerant. lol *smh*
Hannes, I agree with a lot of, what you are saying
MalagAsta do have alot of fears but they don't have to be real. I would like to debat this fear one by one. Fear is an nasty thing, it can total block you from taking some risk and enjoy the rewards. I had seen players logon Siege but they can't play there as they fear they will get killed the moment they leave town even when the risk is very little, their fear will block them for giving a try.
We do know a lot peaceful players joined after the split but we do not know how many of the PvP who would had rejoined if we had made a switch or made happy and dark shards, we can only guess. And don't dear to speak about Siege as that is far from a Fel only shard. It was working somewhat until we got AoS and it become to expensive to replace PvP gear as we did not have item insurance.
If we want to make this work, we have to work together as we have to look at the game as whole. Let the old Fel/Tram, and Red/Blue hate go. How do we merge the community again. I do believe it's possible. I know I do not play Trammel or Fel. I play Siege. I know it is possible to merge the community but we have to be careful and do it in step. I do believe VvV is the first step.
I do know, it will take a lot of coding and may need to be done in a few step. we could start allow VvV in Ter Mur/Abuss/Eodon, Ilshenar, Tokuno and Ilshena. Maybe one facet at the town and see how it goes. Let Malas and Trammel be the last 2 facets.
MalagAsta do have alot of fears but they don't have to be real. I would like to debat this fear one by one. Fear is an nasty thing, it can total block you from taking some risk and enjoy the rewards. I had seen players logon Siege but they can't play there as they fear they will get killed the moment they leave town even when the risk is very little, their fear will block them for giving a try.
Simple is the rule for dislikes, what you do not understand, you did not like. So we have to do it step by step, so they can see if they like it.
We do know a lot was unhappy before the split but it's hard to say, who was quitting. Before Stas Loss, there was lots of reds, I knew 30 reds, just for the forest east of Britain. Most of them did give up, when they was forced to deal with stat loss or trying to find some to fight in guild wars. Lots of anti PK's gave up too, as their target was gone.
We do know a lot peaceful players joined after the split but we do not know how many of the PvP who would had rejoined if we had made a switch or made happy and dark shards, we can only guess. And don't dear to speak about Siege as that is far from a Fel only shard. It was working somewhat until we got AoS and it become to expensive to replace PvP gear as we did not have item insurance.
I had tried that for years, with the devs over the years. At least I believe Mesanna and her team do listen. VvV could very well be first step to a switch. I know we have seen some good changes to Siege too, but we need more changes so we can draw the PvP community back from free servers without damage the community we have on Siege.
No Aran, they pay at least some of the bills. 
I'm a "Trammie" but I can admit that UO's PvP community is where most of UO's social aspect is to be found. If Broadsword wants to change that, they will have to get really inventive. For example, it's hard to say what it would take to get me back out of my shell on a regular basis. Having VvV at EM roleplaying events wouldn't do it (sorry Freja), but I'll admit I'm a tough case. Malag-Aste attends those events. This is what I'm talking about. Ask those players if they want VvV at their EM events. Then ask VvVers how much they care about roleplay. Maybe they're dying to roleplay, and VvV is just the excuse they needed all this time?
Unfortunately, Broadsword can't begin implementing a change before they're confident that it will be a success. If they get five or ten steps in before realizing their idea isn't working, they've already wasted EA's money.
Many permanent Trammel residents just aren't competitive. That doesn't mean they wouldn't want more reasons to be social. But it does mean you need to consider whether VvV is the best way to spend development resources on Trammel, rather than something new and original and cooperative, but less competitive.
I'm a "Trammie" but I can admit that UO's PvP community is where most of UO's social aspect is to be found. If Broadsword wants to change that, they will have to get really inventive. For example, it's hard to say what it would take to get me back out of my shell on a regular basis. Having VvV at EM roleplaying events wouldn't do it (sorry Freja), but I'll admit I'm a tough case. Malag-Aste attends those events. This is what I'm talking about. Ask those players if they want VvV at their EM events. Then ask VvVers how much they care about roleplay. Maybe they're dying to roleplay, and VvV is just the excuse they needed all this time?
Unfortunately, Broadsword can't begin implementing a change before they're confident that it will be a success. If they get five or ten steps in before realizing their idea isn't working, they've already wasted EA's money.
Many permanent Trammel residents just aren't competitive. That doesn't mean they wouldn't want more reasons to be social. But it does mean you need to consider whether VvV is the best way to spend development resources on Trammel, rather than something new and original and cooperative, but less competitive.
If you tell it not to give you the warning then YOU HEAL THEM! And then you are IN VvV whether you wanted to be or NOT. Do you not know how that works? I do... and I can bet you I don't want to be in VvV..... and to have to deal with having a pop up everytime I try to help someone out would be a problem.
I don't care if folk are fighting around me as long as it's not disrupting the EM trying to do a story but we all know it will..... and we all know that it would be used to exploit getting folk in VvV on accident and it would happen just like they find ways to get you guard whacked in Tram and everything else they can do to be childish, disruptive, punks.... and keep you from being able to follow what's going on so they can ensure that they get a better chance than you to get a drop...
Keep the crap in Fel. I'm 100% against having it in Tram EVER.
This is why they should have just gone with the order/chaos thing and been done with it. No different than guild war...can't attack anyone who isn't orange to you. Blues banksitting in Luna are as safe as ever, the trammel lands are safe as ever, no one can be attacked in Trammel WITHOUT SIGNING UP FOR IT. Downside for the order/chaos members? they cant be healed or rezzed by non members. If anyone wants to quit just because someone else runs by them fighting each other, that's silly. All I can say to that is:
Well Bye Meme - Bing video
Well Bye Meme - Bing video
I thought you no longer did EM events cause you were tired of scripters and multi box accounts...rightttt you only do things when it's beneficial to an argument..gotcha
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That do not mean it can't be fixed so it works better. I ressed a VvV today, my non VvV char did not become orange. I also casted a few good spell on him, still not orange. He was killed of an other VvV, when I ressed him.
Before VvV should be released to Trammel facets, this trouble should be fixed, it's not impossible to make the non VvV save for becoming orange.
It not a matter of what you want, but what the UO community as whole want. You can't always get your will.
I never quit doing them. I am tired of the scripters and Multi-boxers but since Mesanna pretty much said it's
They can't even fix the old tram/fel issue in 16 years, They can't fix the bank trade crash bug..... there are dozens of things that haven't been fixed and you think they can actually program something that wouldn't be abused or exploited??? And just because it didn't happen one time for you when it should have probably happened is just further proof that it is not going to work...
NO you don't play my shard where we have dozen of jerks trying to abuse and exploit the system... all the time... so don't patronize me about how it will be great... I can already tell you that it would be a cluster ****..... that is guaranteed.
Not to mention you play on a shard where none of this matters so quit trying to turn everyone elses shard into something like your dead shard. Populations are low enough.... don't need more grief driving people away.
She's useless to have a conversation with.
She has complained many times about EM events in how she no longer does them case she can't deal with x-sharders/scripters/multi box clients..no she claims she still does but dislikes those things.
She complains VvV ruined her recalling into fel cities for roleplay purposes or what the hell ever, now it's she never goes to fel and could care less if there's no fel.
She continually complains how buggy the EC but swears it's a better client..
All while threatening to cancel subs if something happens. I'm sure if I really has the time I could find 100's of posts/threads where she contradicts herself over and over again. Don't waste your time..I stopped awhile ago
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