Would you tolerate a player harassing another player?

[Jirel of Joiry]

Well? Would you say something? Join in? Page a GM? Is this consider acceptable behavior?

 

[Plant Elemental]

The only time I'd ever say or do anything is if the harasser takes it to dangerous level with threats, such as "I'm going to find out who you are in real life. And when I find out who you are, I'll kill you and your family"
Luckily I've never heard anything like that.

Other than that, I wouldn't say or do anything. If you're old enough to know how to log into this game, then you should know what to expect.
If somebody is harassing you, just recall somewhere else and turn off general chat. If you stand there and take it or spew your mouth off as well, then deal with the consequences.

 

[Captn Norrington]

If it were genuine harassment that was not provoked by the person, I would party the person being harassed and tell them how to report the other person, and what steps they need to take for the GM to actually do something about it (like not attacking the other person back and leaving the area).

On the other hand if the person being harassed provoked it by harassing the other person first, or by causing drama over something then I would simply ignore it because the person caused the situation themselves and should have thought of what would happen beforehand. In other words, they need to take responsibility for their actions and stop doing whatever is causing the problems if they want others to consider helping them.

Paging a GM for someone else does not work btw. The GM has to be paged by the person themselves in order for the GM to take any action, I have seen GM's explain this to people many times.

 

[Merlin]

Depends on the level of harassment and the situation.

If its merely in-game griefing that's not violating any real rules, then probably nothing. If someone is following around someone else, name calling them malicious things and not leaving them alone for a period of five minutes or greater... then maybe begin to interrogate and intervene. Sometimes though, getting involved at all just means bringing unwarranted attention to yourself, even if you think you are doing the right thing.

Also, I happen to believe most harassment isn't just random. If you don't know the full situation and get both sides of the story, you're not doing either side any justice.

It's also a video game. If you can't shrug someone off in-game, you need to get thicker skin and get a grip.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

What if they are giving out personal information or making chars with people real life full names? What if they are saying things of an explicit sexual nature? Shouldn't someone speak up then?

 

[Captn Norrington]

Then the person should report it to the proper authorities, which in this case are the GM's, and wait to hear back from them. If the GM says there is nothing that can be done, then there is nothing that can be done and the person should move on with their life. Another person getting involved does not help in any way in that situation, if anything it would just inspire the person doing the harassing to do it even more because they are getting attention from it.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Basically if doesn't affect you, don't bother. Nice.

 

[Cymidei]

Most of the time players can sort things out for themselves, why get involved? We have ignore, sheesh. Is someone tries to involve you in something like this..just don't! Don't get involved in harassing another, taking revenge, or sticking up for someone. It's not worth it.

 

[Merlin]

What if they are giving out personal information or making chars with people real life full names? What if they are saying things of an explicit sexual nature? Shouldn't someone speak up then?

If the person who is being harassed previously threatened others that they would harass them in the same manner, then what goes around, comes around. You reap what you sow.

If the harassment lasts for less than five minutes and then the harasser moves on, then the person being harassed needs to be an adult and just let it go.

Basically if doesn't affect you, don't bother. Nice.

That's how life works most times unfortunately. Prepare yourself for that and you won't be disappointed. Especially when it involves video game drama, people are going to prefer to not get involved.

 

[Aran]

I'm usually the tormentor, not the tormentee or the person witnessing.

 

[DJAd]

I'd grow some thicker skin. It's only a video game.

Look at some of the insults etc in general chat everyday. Do people get bans? I doubt it.

 

[JDGTR]

THE WISE CAPTAIN HAS SPOKEN

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Well? Would you say something? Join in? Page a GM? Is this consider acceptable behavior?

Would I tolerate it? I certainly would, it's none of my business. If the person being "harassed" isn't concerned enough to page a GM, why should I? There's reasons for everything that happens. I'm usually not privy to those reasons. It's not my place to step in. While I may think someone is being "harassed" those people may speak to each other this way all the time and have grand fun with it shocking others. Who knows? It's the obligation of the person who feels they are being harassed to page a GM. It's no concern of mine on multiple levels. For a group of people to join into some slobber knocker in chat is foolish. It just prolongs the annoyance for everyone on the shard. Plus as has been stated it's useless for anyone else to get involved as a complaint from a 3rd party is viewed without merit by a GM. For someone to get involved with someone's affair is seldom wise. At best your just going to clog up chat or clog up an already busy GM.

Now if someone is being vulgar in chat I may or may not report that. Depends on how I feel about it at the time. I assure you on Legends there's very little vulgar chat, and we intend to keep it that way. On Atlantic it's out of control because people have accepted it as normal and don't report it. It's their shard, I don't play there except when visiting the merchants. So I don't care. Reports are looked at by GMs and maybe some slide by. But you get rid of a fool here and there and maybe people will actually start letting their kids play UO again.

If the things you say are happening to you really are, then your clearly not reporting it properly. I would be paging GMs, emailing Mesanna, emailing the board members of EA, doing interviews for gaming sites (they'd love this), etc. I promise you I would handle this situation. This would not happen to me for very long. Guaranteed. Seriously people in game know my real name. Wouldn't be hard to get my address at all. I don't really care. They've never dealt with me or the law we have around here, lol. It would be the least of my concerns other than it might be a fun thing to deal with.

 

[Lady Michelle]

If I'm not going to take time out to page on someone who is bothering me, I'm sure not going to take time out to page on someone bothering someone else. Game chat distracts me so I don't even join chat in the game I would never get anything done.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Okay. Basically I deserve every terrible thing that ever happens or is done to me in game. I accept that.

why attack my sister for 3 hours? I mean if I had a problem with you would it make any sense for me to attack your sister, wife, husband or children?

Yes we reported it correctly. Luc and I had to leave our Luna houses this freak was circling the outside. We split up, I parked it in my Fel castle and Luc went to Tram castle. The person then used Gen chat, we blocked nine characters.

Would the harasser deserve it if the victim came after them?

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Okay. Basically I deserve every terrible thing that ever happens or is done to me in game. I accept that.

why attack my sister for 3 hours? I mean if I had a problem with you would it make any sense for me to attack your sister, wife, husband or children?

Yes we reported it correctly. Luc and I had to leave our Luna houses this freak was circling the outside. We split up, I parked it in my Fel castle and Luc went to Tram castle. The person then used Gen chat, we blocked nine characters.

Would the harasser deserve it if the victim came after them?

If you report it to a GM and get no result then email it to Mesanna. If you get no result there then start emailing important people at EA. At some point you should hit on a decent caring person, even at EA Complaining here is probably the most useless thing you could do, no one here can help you. This topic seems to keep reappearing and you follow no one's advice. So why bother? Either handle it correctly and be persistent or just suck it up.

 

[Medallia]

I am curious to why this topic again is being rehashed over? Thinking the first post was deleted for the obvious reasons.

Insane meaning, and you can look this up..... Doing the same behavior, expecting a different outcome.

I am not trying to be cold, or heartless, this subject is like beating a dead horse with a stick. Can we move on?

 

[Herman]

Ofc you should page on him if it offends you or if it offends you how he act against someone else
Trust that our paid staff GM will make the right decision No other action is needed
Unless you are unhappy with the decision

Then complain to mesanna

 

[Capt. Lucky]

I am curious to why this topic again is being rehashed over? Thinking the first post was deleted for the obvious reasons.

Insane meaning, and you can look this up..... Doing the same behavior, expecting a different outcome.

I am not trying to be cold, or heartless, this subject is like beating a dead horse with a stick. Can we move on?

Well there is a certain entertainment factor, but it's frustrating at the same time lol I think she probably has a real problem of sorts. At least to her. But she doesn't seem to take any real interest in properly doing what it takes to get it resolved.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

No where in the following does it say reporting it on Stratics will help

Harassment Procedure
Posted on September 17, 2012 by UO Dev Team


By GM Acheren

Verbal Harassment is almost by definition a frustrating experience for those affected. Unfortunately we continue to see a few mistakes that turn many potentially valid harassment reports into situations we cannot assist with. As your glorious GM overlords we suggest following the steps below to avoid these problems:

1. Do not exchange insults or taunts with the harassing player. This is by far the most common mistake we see. If both parties are involved in harassment or the reporting player instigated the situation then it becomes mutual harassment and a GM will not intervene for either side.
2. Ask the player politely, by name, to stop. For example: “Please stop insulting me Acheren.”
3. Stop talking to the player. You may also want to leave the area.
4. Add the player to your ignore list (In Options under Filter Options.)
5. Wait a few seconds and if the harassing player still does not stop then you should immediately report them. Do not wait more than a minute or two after this point to report them and do not log out of the game before reporting them. Open your Help menu, choose “Another player is harassing me”, then pick “VERBAL HARASSMENT”.
6. You will be prompted to enter some details about who and what you are reporting. Keep this short and to the point. For example: “Acheren will not stop calling my llamas fat”.
7. Select the harassing player as a target. There are a number of ways to add targets, the most common methods are “Target Involved Players” which allows you to simply click on the character you wish to report and “Type Names of Involved Players” which allows you to type in the character name even if they are no longer online. You can always include a target, even if the other player has left the area or gone offline. This is the second most common mistake because with no target included the GM cannot see the chat logs and may not even be able to determine who exactly you are reporting. As a result the GM will not be able to investigate your report in any way and your petition will be closed.

Disruptive Behavior:

Be aware that in addition to the Verbal Harassment policy there is also a seperate Disruptive Behavior policy. Disruptive Behavior applies to the use of Vulgarity, Racism, and Objectionable Content in public chat channels such as the General channel. Unlike Verbal Harassment you do not need to ask players to stop or take any other additional steps prior to reporting this behavior. Unlike the default channels we do not tolerate the use of profanity in public chat channels so for Disruptive Behavior you may simply witness a player using vulgarity a few times in a public channel and skip straight to reporting them. For rather obvious reasons this means you should avoid responding to such players with more vulgarity in those same public chat channels lest you both end up in jail.

You may find a great deal of additional information on harassment here under Policies and Rules.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

I'm just trying to understand how this person works. I did page on the freak. My sister paged. Three guild mates paged. the friend I was partied with when it started paged. I actually paged three times on the freak because the crazy character switching. I also blocked NINE OF HIS CHARS. I also emailed Mesanna a screen shot of my journal with the freak yapping about her . . .I can't repeat it but it will have Mesanna seeing red.

What more could I have done? Should I have start my page "OH GREAT AND POWERFUL GM"?....Just kidding.

If he wants to give out my personal info well Yiiiiipppeee Ki Aye .... While he's at it would he like to pay my student loans too?

I don't like that he gave out personal info but its out there and I can't do anything about it.

I'm just trying to get into this guy's head and people that would turn a blind eye to such behavior.

Forgive me for trying to analyze this and try to understand something I can not fathom.

 

[Varingian]

Safe Place

 

[Herman]

I'm just trying to understand how this person works. I did page on the freak. My sister paged. Three guild mates paged. the friend I was partied with when it started paged. I actually paged three times on the freak because the crazy character switching. I also blocked NINE OF HIS CHARS. I also emailed Mesanna a screen shot of my journal with the freak yapping about her . . .I can't repeat it but it will have Mesanna seeing red.

What more could I have done? Should I have start my page "OH GREAT AND POWERFUL GM"?....Just kidding.

If he wants to give out my personal info well Yiiiiipppeee Ki Aye .... While he's at it would he like to pay my student loans too?

I don't like that he gave out personal info but its out there and I can't do anything about it.

I'm just trying to get into this guy's head and people that would turn a blind eye to such behavior.

Forgive me for trying to analyze this and try to understand something I can not fathom.

You did enough trust mesanna and the Game masters to do the right thing (it might take awhile) if it is as bad as you make it out to be then he get a ban maybe even a perma ban

 

[kaio]

What we need is in-game chat moderators. Let the gm's do gm stuff, let messana do messana stuff, and let the community moderate the community.
How thise moderators should be elected, appointed etc etc, is another story.

I dont buy the, if u dont like what u read, u can leave attitude.
If people cant behave they need to be punished HARD.

 

[Hannes Erich]

As a comparison, some MMO publishers/studios use volunteer moderators on their official forums, but you don't typically see it among forums owned by the larger publishers (there might be legal concerns). If there was sufficient oversight to prevent or at least minimize favoritism and outright corruption, in-game volunteer moderators might make a positive difference. The problem is, while such a program would share many of the same potholes as the GM position always has, all of those potholes would be larger because volunteers are less accountable.

Whenever these kinds of threads come up, I always see an overwhelming majority of posts that claim the GM system is working fine as it is, often followed by more or less convincing anecdotal evidence. Unless all of these players are masochists, I don't see why they'd be lying about it. I also don't foresee that any GM would be excited to help volunteer players learn how to do the jobs they're currently getting paid for.

 

[Hannes Erich]

Let the gm's do gm stuff

I'm also curious as to what you suspect "gm stuff" is.

 

[hungry4knowhow]

What a **** show.

You've been told multiple times that ONLY the victim paging will get a response, then you want to act as if we are bad people because we wont take up your cause? From what I've read in other posts you've started lately, you've been guilty of threats like this before so you are probably just getting a dose of your own medicine.

No, nobody really cares about your virtual video game drama. We have our own real life drama to deal with and use video games as an outlet/escape. Deal with your **** like a grown person instead of my toddler who knows only how to come to mommy and daddy. That is acceptable. This is not.

 

[Hannes Erich]

More on topic, Jirel, you've made good posts around here, especially lately for the Stratics auction. And you started a real interesting thought exercise about the feasibility of [legal] player-owned shards. But you seem to work overtime to overshadow all of that with excessive complaining and whining posts. And this is coming from a guy who finds some of your complaints relatable. I know what it's like to try to help someone, only to attract the attention of those who hate anything positive. But most of us do. Welcome to the Internet.

You're clearly an asset to this little community when you want to be. But you've shown a pattern of breaking almost every time-tested strategy against cyber-bullying and disregarding advice that works for other people, so it's easy to see how you've worn even some well-meaning people thin. You cannot drag baggage and drama into a public forum and get positive results. You'll only make it worse; which will make you part of the problem. I probably first learned that lesson in environments like UO and mIRC, almost twenty years ago (and I'm looking at your join date). There are quiet, efficient ways to deal with online bullying. There are no loud and aggressive ways to deal with online bullying.

I'm not saying you don't deserve sympathy. Of course you do. You're human and have feelings. But I see somebody who does not seem to want to learn. That's called willful ignorance, and as likable as I'm sure you are in other respects, that is a trait that will always earn--and deserve--peoples ire. That's a fact of life and of community.

 

[Uvtha]

What if they are giving out personal information or making chars with people real life full names? What if they are saying things of an explicit sexual nature? Shouldn't someone speak up then?

I'm just trying to get into this guy's head and people that would turn a blind eye to such behavior.

Forgive me for trying to analyze this and try to understand something I can not fathom.

I don't know how many people have explained to you how many times that THIS POST and the dozen others you make are prime examples of why you get these people bothering you.

Again, I will add that you playing the victim card here is complete BS as you have threatened to do the exact same thing that is happening to you, to people here, within the month even. I have a great suspicion that you probably tossed around the same threat elsewhere and it came back and bit you in the ass. It's not that people are heartless about others in trouble, it's that they just can't take you seriously, and with good reason.

The BEST thing you can do is... STOP. MAKING. THESE. POSTS. Chill out, ignore, stop the drama, move on. This is your only permanent solution.

 

[kaio]

I'm also curious as to what you suspect "gm stuff" is.

What is it excaly you wanna know ?

 

[JC the Builder]

The simple fact is there is not 24/7 Gamemaster support. It is obvious what happened to you is not allowed but only a Gamemaster can do anything to stop it. Even if a Gamemaster is online it can take time for them to respond.

No one is turning a blind eye to it. There is just nothing that can be done about it.

 

[Cymidei]

Some people on the internet are really creepy and in ANY online game you are bound to run into some of them. For example, I played a browser game where this old, weird guy fell in love with a lady. When she spurned him he hired real life private investigators to track her down, and then they showed up at her job and raised a ruckus. Did she deserve that, nope. Was it right, nope? Some people don't have any sense or boundaries. Tons of gamers just love to grief other people and make sport of it. Don't be any fun to torment and most people will stop. The choice to grief or bully says way more about the perpetrator than it does the victim and we all know it.

 

[Merlin]

If there is even an ounce of truth to what @Uvtha said about you threatening to do this to other people, then both you AND YOUR SISTER are getting exactly what you deserve. The ONLY person your sister has to blame is you. Neither you or your sister deserve any sympathy here or a response from Mesanna. Your sister's collateral damage is unfortunate, but you are responsible for it. Enough is enough. You reap what you sow. Stop the complaining. Stop whining on Stratics. Deal with it as an adult.

 

[kelmo]

 

[TimberWolf]

If there is even an ounce of truth to what @Uvtha said about you threatening to do this to other people, then both you AND YOUR SISTER are getting exactly what you deserve. The ONLY person your sister has to blame is you. Neither you or your sister deserve any sympathy here or a response from Mesanna. Your sister's collateral damage is unfortunate, but you are responsible for it. Enough is enough. You reap what you sow. Stop the complaining. Stop whining on Stratics. Deal with it as an adult.

it is 100% accurate....I was one of her targets...I ignored it but laughed my butt off when I heard it happened to her.....Karma is a biotch! The fact that after threatening to do it she comes here and complains about it being done to her family just cracks me up!

Also someone owes me $5 cause she was gone for less then a day after quitting for the 30th time.

Message to Jirel what is the most scary is the fact that if this was actually happening to you....if you were actually the victim, you would have the common sense to hit the little X in the top right corner. Actual victims dont stand there screaming "I am a victim"......they get the hell outta dodge!

 

[TimberWolf]

Kelmo, I just double liked your post!!!!

 

[Lady Michelle]

I'm just trying to understand how this person works. I did page on the freak. My sister paged. Three guild mates paged. the friend I was partied with when it started paged. I actually paged three times on the freak because the crazy character switching. I also blocked NINE OF HIS CHARS. I also emailed Mesanna a screen shot of my journal with the freak yapping about her . . .I can't repeat it but it will have Mesanna seeing red.

What more could I have done? Should I have start my page "OH GREAT AND POWERFUL GM"?....Just kidding.

If he wants to give out my personal info well Yiiiiipppeee Ki Aye .... While he's at it would he like to pay my student loans too?

I don't like that he gave out personal info but its out there and I can't do anything about it.

I'm just trying to get into this guy's head and people that would turn a blind eye to such behavior.

Forgive me for trying to analyze this and try to understand something I can not fathom.

What should you do now ? is the question.
Since he knows all about you & your sis, & seems to be really interested in both of you ask him for his Phone #. When you & sis see him on type out in caps THERE'S MY LOVER BOY.Then you & sis should argue no he is MY LOVER BOY. run up to him and make googly eyes at him. This way turn it into where you & sis our having fun just not him.

 

[TimberWolf]

What should you do now ? is the question.
Since he knows all about you & your sis, & seems to be really interested in both of you ask him for his Phone #. When you & sis see him on type out in caps THERE'S MY LOVER BOY.Then you & sis should argue no he is MY LOVER BOY. run up to him and make googly eyes at him. This way turn it into where you & sis our having fun just not him.

that would sure send me running scared.... I would probably quit gaming and go into hiding!

 

[FrejaSP]

Well? Would you say something? Join in? Page a GM? Is this consider acceptable behavior?

The essence in this is, if we annoy people so much, that they really want to break us down, they will use any way to success it.

Harassing in game only work if you let them see how it effect you. You have to keep ignore them. Don't let them get the joy from seeing you hurt.

If you do not learn that, it will never be better. You can win if you don't give them the joy they want.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

HEY!!!

I thought you quit Stratics?...la

 

[FrejaSP]

Sometimes it help, trying to find out, what you did to make them mad at you.

On Siege, most new players do not get PK'ed a lot but sometimes we have a case, where a new players tells he is going to quit Siege because he got killed, res killed and looted alot.

Why was this new player treated different? My guess is, he reacted different, when he was killed or did something else, that annoyed the PK's.

In some cases, he did yell of the PK for killing him, blame him for killing someone, not ready to fight or something like that. He may believe, he is right in yelling at the PK but it had been more wise to ask nicely if anything was left for him on the body and telling he just started.

 

[Assia Penryn]

We aren't here to help you figure out "Why they do what they do?" People have told you what you have to do to try and solve your issues. Tell them to stop. Put them on ignore (or just.. actually ignore them since we don't have an ignore button in rl) and then page. If your issue isn't solved, page again. Keep paging until it is fixed. Rinse and repeat.

I personally can't fathom why someone making a character with my rl name would bother me. If they are doing stuff on your shard and someone might confuse them with you... you post a short message on your SHARD forum saying "If you see this character, it isn't me. This is my character and this is how you tell..." A guild tag is a great way to identify your character as the guild abbreviation is unique to the shard. They may be at fault, but you need to take responsibility and mitigate your damages.

Stop being a victim and having a pity party for yourself or your sister. You are both are responsible for the yourself and have the power to manage this issue.

 

[Medallia]

You only give people as much power as you allow them to take.

 

[Victim of Siege]

You only give people as much power as you allow them to take.

This right here is what you need to focus on IMO

 

[OREOGL]

What should you do now ? is the question.
Since he knows all about you & your sis, & seems to be really interested in both of you ask him for his Phone #. When you & sis see him on type out in caps THERE'S MY LOVER BOY.Then you & sis should argue no he is MY LOVER BOY. run up to him and make googly eyes at him. This way turn it into where you & sis our having fun just not him.

I disagree, do not encourage the behavior.

The best action is to do nothing and avoid the person.

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

i tell my kids this story to teach them to avoid bullies at school...

let's say someone is knocking on your door. you open it and the person hits you in the face then leaves. the next day they knock on the door again and you open it. once again the person hits you on the head and leaves. day 3 they are knocking on your door again. this time you don't answer the door. eventually they leave. day 4 they knock on your door again but you don't answer. they return a few more times but you ignore them. eventually they don't return.

 

[hungry4knowhow]

i tell my kids this story to teach them to avoid bullies at school...

let's say someone is knocking on your door. you open it and the person hits you in the face then leaves. the next day they knock on the door again and you open it. once again the person hits you on the head and leaves. day 3 they are knocking on your door again. this time you don't answer the door. eventually they leave. day 4 they knock on your door again but you don't answer. they return a few more times but you ignore them. eventually they don't return.

I teach my kids the same story, except day 3 daddy answers the door and shows kid what a swirly is. j/k

 

[Uvtha]

I teach my kids the same story, except day 3 daddy answers the door and shows kid what a swirly is. j/k

I would tell my kid to wet his pants then jump on the kid screaming "I LOVE YOU!"

 

[hungry4knowhow]

I would tell my kid to wet his pants then jump on the kid screaming "I LOVE YOU!"

Ah the old freak 'em out with insanity defense. I like it.

Offtopic/ontopic. In my younger days of hellraising I met this guy who before his court date (in lock up) opened the peanut butter packets and stuck the contents down the back of his drawers. He was going for insanity defense. Upon the judge saying something (unsure of what, long time ago) the guy reached his hands into the back of hid drawers and proceeded to wipe his face with the peanut butter.

Not sure how it worked out for him, but decent idea.

 

[FrejaSP]

An other case, take a in game thief (fel zone or Siege). He is trying to steal from you.
What do you do?

• You can recall to somewhere else if Prodo and he will find a new target.
• You can start yelling at him, tell him you hate thieves and he will mostly follow you around as you give him the joy he are looking for
• I do say *Slap fingers*. In most cases I get a smile and he move on to a new target.

So again, why do you always end up as a target, what could you do to changes it?