Video Update

[ChReuter]

Im not talking about you Im talking about the ones who want it but dont pay like you do, and others. Sorry didnt mean that towards you.

but I am nuts though

I wish I figured this out before hand! All we ever had to do to make this happen was pay for a product we didn't ask for nor want for 8 years. I feel so stupid, if only we had dished out a thousand dollars each before hand, we might have had the shard created!

Seriously, you are nuts. People don't pay for entertainment products that don't exist and might not ever. This isn't investing, it's a game.

 

[silent]

Well I'm sorry to see they will not do a classic shard. I think it would have sparked my interest in the game, which has been falling for quite some time now. My breaks from the game have grown longer each time.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Yes, it's done. So why isn't it out? The answer to a "Why" question at the Academy is "No Excuse." So let's just go with that.

The intent was to frame several subjects about what we are doing for the remainder of the year in a few short minutes. Between editing and all the things that have happened between January 3rd and now, the answers have not changed, but the method in which we broadcast has many times.

Anyway, you are only waiting for one answer so here I am with flame-retardant mutant suit to field questions and avoid pitchforks.


The answer is: not right now.

In constant review of the threads and other fansites that cater to Ultima Online, we realized that the classic shard comes down to a checklist. It becomes about if you have X rules then this is what a classic shard is. The problem with this is, when working inside this constraint it’s impossible to please everyone.

Also, we DID look into the possibilities of different rulesets and took a look at what had been done in the past, and there was no viable answer that works for everyone.

Finally, it’s about opportunity cost. The more resources and time we spend on developing a classic shard… that is ONE single shard, that means other things get neglected. It would be many months of work at the expense of the wider game.


We are planning a Video House of Commons for next Tuesday, March 1st to field any questions about the coming months, Magincia as a player-driven town, Spring Cleaning, faster/simpler story arcs, arenas, UOgamecode store, shard hardware, and other topics of note.

The reason I did not want to put this in writing is because it doesn't allow you to "see" how we feel about the game, and this answer is only part of what we want to do with Ultima Online.

Well, there you go. Have at it.

Please just work on exlporation and adventuring. Random encounters. Lift a massive world out of the oceans with a non insurance ruleset of the past. So massive it cant be clogged by pkers. Wild adventure, items, worlds there. You go or dont go there and just be done with it.

 

[Mapper]

Sadly the ones who currently play this game have so much influence , when theres so many other player who would return just for a shot at the old day's

Makes perfect sense to me, Work on keeping the people who actually pay them happy. No point doing something that might bring people back if they have no solid proof.

Although I am sorry people who want a Classic Shard didn't get one, unless they had a whole new Dev team to manage it current shards would have suffered from lack of Dev time. I don't think that's acceptable or fair for those who aren't interested in a classic shard.

 

[Cetric]

It has nothing to do with grammer. It has to do with Cal not having the balls to come here and say NO, NEVER, THERE IS NEVER GOING TO BE A CLASSIC SERVER WHILE I AM THE PRODUCER. How hard can that be? "Not right now" is not no. I wonder how low the subs have to go before someone at EA either cancels UO or forces a classic shard on the dev team. Classic shards have been successful in many other games. EQ just opened another one last week with nothing added to the original code but the map system, how hard can it be for UO to do the same? There is nothing to argue about there. Start at day 1 of UO and tell the players take it or leave it. I was there day one and it was a far better game than what exists now.

You know what tho... think of it this way. If Cal came here and did say those things, more people would be upset than there currently is now.

Atleast the door didn't shut... they swung it closed...but its not latched!

 

[phantus]

IBTL

 

[grig_since98]

Thank you for the post Cal,

I'll have to say that in the future, it would be better not announce something like this unless it is *iron-clad* in certainty. The rumblings that occur when there is not enough updates are *nothing* compared to what will happen when something is promised and not delivered upon. When something is supposed to be released and it is repeatedly delayed, it really brings out the Chicken Little mentality, where it is seen as a prophecy of impending doom.

Now you have officially said, more or less, no classic shard. While I completely agree with that position, I think it wasn't handled well. In my opinion, you should have never mentioned something with that many implications for your customers at all, nor even speculated upon it, unless it was *going* to happen. You're going to lose subscribers over this one. I believe it *will* be a better situation than if you actually tried to implement a classic shard, but you're going to lose some people.

With that sort of chastisement out of the way, I think you are correct in your assesment of the classic shard concept, and it has restored my positive opinion of you as a developer. I have played this game since 1998, but I feel a "classic" shard at this point is not in the best interest of the game as a game or a business. I'm going to take the gloves off, go farther, and express my opinion that a business investing resources in something that has nothing to do with game play and everything to do with nostalgia.

There are some aspects of a classic shard I would enjoy. I would even be ok with doing away with the Trammel ruleset entirely, as I did just fine as a non PvP player in an open PvP world. However, as you very sagely pointed out, I'm essentially cherry picking rules that I would like to play under in my ideal UO. Personally, I'd like to have an all felucca ruleset without and ML content but including all other content, and with AoS item rules. However, you can't make a shard just for me. That is my number one objection to a classic shard. Namely, what is a classic shard?

I have to think that I'm part of a silent majority, because otherwise you wouldn't have any subscribers. I sympathize with the classic shard zealots, but I do not agree. I feel that a classic ruleset is an attempt to capture intangibles like nostalgia with a rule set, which cannot be done.

Something you did not mention apropos the classic shard concept is that it would involve opening yet another shard when the population is spread far to thin as is. I don't think that low population shards is the death knell that some folks say it is ( Sonoma seems to have a very active community), but it is an issue a classic shard might make worse.

As far as Magincia being player driven, I think that is a great idea, IF it doesn't become a vendor mall as one poster has already mentioned.

 

[Llewen]

Frankly I think this was the right decision, for the right reasons. Either way it wasn't an easy decision, because it is clear that the devs do actually care what we all think - whether it is strictly for economic reasons, or for reasons more "noble".

 

[grig_since98]

No doubt a number of people would see it that way. However, in reality the debate about a 'classic shard' was more about altering the game to resurrect earlier or long gone principles.

You do not so much need a 'classic shard' in the sense that the game is exactly as it was in 1998-1999. You need a game which harks back to some of the earlier principles of UO:
- Remove insurance (if you die, you should lose items, you should have to source replacement equipment, you should have a role to play in a broader game world economy);
- Remove complicated percentage based gameplay (the properties on magical items are complicated);
- Increase the risks associated with playing amongst other people (this does not mean necessarily allowing player killing, give thieves a role where they can actually steal from other players and become attackable);
- Fix cosmetic issues (alter the game colour scheme so it is more realistic and immersive, reduce the cartoon like appearance and neon colours).

Here is the problem though. I would agree, for the most part, with all those points except the second one. Frankly I found the game to be one dimensional and boring prior to the introduction of synergistic skills and AoS items. That is the one thing I like about AoS. I like the mathematically complex gameplay, as I feel it adds depth.

The problem is that everyone has a different idea about what they like. That is the stumbling block for a classic shard.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

You know what tho... think of it this way. If Cal came here and did say those things, more people would be upset than there currently is now.

Atleast the door didn't shut... they swung it closed...but its not latched!

I think Cal is, broadly speaking, starting to learn two things. One, that promising (or even appearing to promise) things he can't deliver on is bad. Two, that he isn't necessarily the final arbiter of what goes on in UO. EA has never learned from its own history, which should show them that broadly speaking it is more successful when it lets the studios just do their thing.

And, for us, that means (I suspect) that they make Cal run pretty much everything by them. And, since they don't understand the importance of UO's steady revenue stream to them, they put UO on the back burner. And leave it there. Until it's burnt. Then they blame it, and not themselves, for the inevitable result.

So when he says "not right now," sure it may be because he's hoping that maybe some of the custom sharders will see that as a reed of hope. But he also might now-recognize that EA could change its mind tomorrow and he'd pretty much have to be ok with it. And finally there's the fact that he probably supports a custom-rules shard. Remember he's the one who said it was a good idea in theory. (I think he's wrong.)

So it might be hard for him to let go of too.

-Galen's player

 

[Llewen]

Frankly I found the game to be one dimensional and boring prior to the introduction of synergistic skills and AoS items. That is the one thing I like about AoS. I like the mathematically complex gameplay, as I feel it adds depth.

I didn't find the game "one dimensional and boring" before necessarily, but I do think the game is more interesting now because of the complexities involved in building competitive character templates, which includes the necessary items, a.k.a. the "suit". However, I do think that if the game had not evolved, it would have eventually become boring.

 

[Tinsil]

Are you delusional? How do you know they are not making a profit? Got a reliable source that is giving you inside information? Hell EA doesn't release UO profit let alone any other game the have. Stars Wars is getting the funding first before any other game. Those other games that you are saying they suck are still running btw and plently of their players say UO suck. Maybe they should take UO resources?

Okay DAOC I'm not sure. We do know that UO actually turns a profit.. and there's no way warhammer is making crap.

The last estimates had it at an insanely low number of players, it has a permanent free trial, and their OFFICIAL forums get less posts than stratics.

 

[ohmyGED]

I find it ironic that Cal decided to post after I made a statement about the video yesterday.


As I do appreciate the response, I do have one recommendation for you in the future Cal, and it has nothing to do with the content or updates that you are trying to convey with the state of the game....

If you have an audience that is anticipating something with a deadline, and it is not going to reach the deadline, keep the communication a bit more open or set a more realistic timeline. I know things come up, that is inevitable, but you can also communicate and manage our expectations to prevent the opening of pandora's box.

I think it is admirable for you to reach out to us who have been waiting patiently, so I thank you for that.


I look forward to any updates....may love them, may not, but I'm still going to play the game because I enjoy it as a hobby. A 14+ year long, addicting hobby.

 

[Nexus]

I'm not going to say it's a right decision or the wrong decision, but I am going to say it's the reason I expected...

Me and a few guildies have been discussing this for the past week, and most of us are of the same mind. It's impossible to define a "classic shard" that would fit everyones desires. And secondly, we felt most people wanted it for the nostalgia. One of those people was a Beta tester back in 97, and went so far as to say if UO was still like it was back in the Pre-Trammel days, they'd leave for all of the good things about that era, there are half a dozen reason that it wasn't necessarily better than what we have today.


Secondly I think the only way we'd ever have an answer to this debate, is if this debate had never happened. Meaning if as UO progressed, and hit major branching of the game play experience, as in UO:R then UO:AoS (which are the only two radical game play shifts imho), where everything about how you played the game was altered beyond just skills or equipment, a server or three were established that didn't progress to the new rule sets. If that had happened we'd have had the answer to this debate easily by looking and seeing which shards held the most population, but that didn't happen and we can't go back in time and alter this.

I strongly feel myself that if a "Classic Shard" had become a reality 75% of those clamoring for it would spend 1-2 weeks there then go "WTF is this? This isn't what I remember!". As humans our memory is as fallible as any other function. We also have this grand internal programming that constantly causes us to delude ourselves into forgetting the worser aspects of things we hold dear, it's part of what helped us survive when we were gathering nuts and chasing down Mega-fauna, while making fires out of Mastodon poop. It's called selective memory, and any married individual, or parent here can attest it comes into play quite often when undesirable chores and handed out, when much more enjoyable pursuits are available.

For those that feel this is a betrayal, well you're certainly entitled to your opinions, for those that were opposed to the idea of a Classic Shard well you got what you wanted for now. Me I felt about it either way, while I supported the Idea I wasn't going to complain if it didn't happen. For me I have to say "New" UO is more enjoyable than Pre-UO:R, and it's certainly better than No UO at all.

Now for Some food for Thought...

For those of you who miss the "PvP" aspect why aren't all of you playing exclusively in Fel? Saying "There's no point, no one is there anymore" is an excuse, if everyone that says that played exclusively in Fel there would be people there. Not as many perhaps as the old days but those that were there would be capable, and a worthy opponent is certainly better than killing off a new for a pile of ore right? Just because you feel that your "Game Play Style" was damaged with the introduction of Trammel it's just as justifiable to say that "My Game Play Style" was damaged every time I fell under the weight of your axe/kryss/flamestrike back in the old days.

For those of you that just don't like Insurance, Why aren't you on Siege?
Saying "There's no one there!" is simply an excuse if everyone that said that instead went to Siege, guess what it would be a moderately populated server. And outside that one "Siege Blessed" item artifacts are rarely an issue, most folks run GM/Legendary armor or possibly Imbued gear.

If you want a Classic Shard because you think Cheating wouldn't be an issue, guess again. The only reason it wasn't back in 1999 is the most popular cheat engine available didn't exist until after Trammel was introduced.

If you wanted a Classic Shard because the Economy was in check.... Well it was and it wasn't, and even now it is and it isn't. Supply and demand are the factors, it's what's kept Siege economy low. There was an suitable supply of Equipment back then to keep prices low through competition, and there were no "Rare" drops. Even the coveted Silver Vanqs dropped often enough I had half a dozen. Now with Artifacts of varying drop rarity being major players supply and demand has inflated the economy, compounded with a great influx of gold into the system. Basically the economy in the game is working just like any real one would. It's why a tin "Superman Secret Compartment Ring" from the 1940's that kids received by mailing off coupons from bubblegum packs is worth at auction between $17,000 and $70,000 depending on condition. There are only 8 know to exist still and people will have to pay more due to rarity it falls squarely into the Supply and Demand system of economics, just like that Slither/Tangle/Crimmy. The rarer an item is the more it demands. In other words don't knock it too hard, it's not something they can easily fix without changing the laws of commerce.

 

[Santa Claus]

So EA went from a 'maybe' to a 'probably not' concerning a 'classic shard'.

We are planning a Video House of Commons for next Tuesday, March 1st to field any questions about the coming months, Magincia as a player-driven town, Spring Cleaning, faster/simpler story arcs, arenas, UOgamecode store, shard hardware, and other topics of note.

Will be really interesting to see what the UO developers these days define as 'player - driven' for Magincia, but I think I will be more amused than impressed.

Faster/simpler story arcs?
Slower is possible? And simpler than killing things for points?

Arenas I put under the 'soon' category as Factions and after that 'Siege'.

UOGamestore finally gets 'outsourced'? And you will stop transporting shard hardware around the world?
Good to hear

 

[Santa Claus]

I'm not going to say it's a right decision or the wrong decision, but I am going to say it's the reason I expected...

Me and a few guildies have been discussing this for the past week, and most of us are of the same mind. It's impossible to define a "classic shard" that would fit everyones desires. And secondly, we felt most people wanted it for the nostalgia. One of those people was a Beta tester back in 97, and went so far as to say if UO was still like it was back in the Pre-Trammel days, they'd leave for all of the good things about that era, there are half a dozen reason that it wasn't necessarily better than what we have today.


Secondly I think the only way we'd ever have an answer to this debate, is if this debate had never happened. Meaning if as UO progressed, and hit major branching of the game play experience, as in UO:R then UO:AoS (which are the only two radical game play shifts imho), where everything about how you played the game was altered beyond just skills or equipment, a server or three were established that didn't progress to the new rule sets. If that had happened we'd have had the answer to this debate easily by looking and seeing which shards held the most population, but that didn't happen and we can't go back in time and alter this.

I strongly feel myself that if a "Classic Shard" had become a reality 75% of those clamoring for it would spend 1-2 weeks there then go "WTF is this? This isn't what I remember!". As humans our memory is as fallible as any other function. We also have this grand internal programming that constantly causes us to delude ourselves into forgetting the worser aspects of things we hold dear, it's part of what helped us survive when we were gathering nuts and chasing down Mega-fauna, while making fires out of Mastodon poop. It's called selective memory, and any married individual, or parent here can attest it comes into play quite often when undesirable chores and handed out, when much more enjoyable pursuits are available.

For those that feel this is a betrayal, well you're certainly entitled to your opinions, for those that were opposed to the idea of a Classic Shard well you got what you wanted for now. Me I felt about it either way, while I supported the Idea I wasn't going to complain if it didn't happen. For me I have to say "New" UO is more enjoyable than Pre-UO:R, and it's certainly better than No UO at all.

Now for Some food for Thought...

For those of you who miss the "PvP" aspect why aren't all of you playing exclusively in Fel? Saying "There's no point, no one is there anymore" is an excuse, if everyone that says that played exclusively in Fel there would be people there. Not as many perhaps as the old days but those that were there would be capable, and a worthy opponent is certainly better than killing off a new for a pile of ore right? Just because you feel that your "Game Play Style" was damaged with the introduction of Trammel it's just as justifiable to say that "My Game Play Style" was damaged every time I fell under the weight of your axe/kryss/flamestrike back in the old days.

For those of you that just don't like Insurance, Why aren't you on Siege?
Saying "There's no one there!" is simply an excuse if everyone that said that instead went to Siege, guess what it would be a moderately populated server. And outside that one "Siege Blessed" item artifacts are rarely an issue, most folks run GM/Legendary armor or possibly Imbued gear.

If you want a Classic Shard because you think Cheating wouldn't be an issue, guess again. The only reason it wasn't back in 1999 is the most popular cheat engine available didn't exist until after Trammel was introduced.

If you wanted a Classic Shard because the Economy was in check.... Well it was and it wasn't, and even now it is and it isn't. Supply and demand are the factors, it's what's kept Siege economy low. There was an suitable supply of Equipment back then to keep prices low through competition, and there were no "Rare" drops. Even the coveted Silver Vanqs dropped often enough I had half a dozen. Now with Artifacts of varying drop rarity being major players supply and demand has inflated the economy, compounded with a great influx of gold into the system. Basically the economy in the game is working just like any real one would. It's why a tin "Superman Secret Compartment Ring" from the 1940's that kids received by mailing off coupons from bubblegum packs is worth at auction between $17,000 and $70,000 depending on condition. There are only 8 know to exist still and people will have to pay more due to rarity it falls squarely into the Supply and Demand system of economics, just like that Slither/Tangle/Crimmy. The rarer an item is the more it demands. In other words don't knock it too hard, it's not something they can easily fix without changing the laws of commerce.

Thing is an EA classic shard needs a certain number of players to be profitable. Breaking even is not enough, it would have to be as profitable as swtor is from EA's view.


And all who want a classic shard. One opened up with constantly over 1000 clients connected (though who knows how many macro), so check it out if interested and let EA do their thing.

 

[[JD]]

While I was never for nor against the Classic shard the reason of resources makes sense when put into context as a reason why Classic wouldn't become a reality. Besides I thought we already had a Classic-esque shard, Seige, where you have no insurance, and are attackable.. and the shard is empty. Granted its much more hardcore than a Classic server would have been, but maybe gives a peek at a Classic server's future once the newness factor wears off.

In any case, I was really only interested to hear updates and support for the enhanced client. Uo really needs to come out with a good client with great graphics to start attracting NEW (not just reactivating) subscribers.

 

[lucitus]

3 things have kept me going in UO for this long.

1. My friends
2. My rares
3. Classic Shard

Only 2 reasons left. With Facebook and a little bit of therapy, EA Mythic would lose another paying customer. *sigh*

Hell which classic shard? There were no classic shard, there is no classic shard and there never will be a classic shard!

Open your eyes, if you want such a shard google it, what is the problem?

Your friends and rares i would say, so i have the same problem, i have to play with a 3 years old beta client and? We are all comming back, because UO is the best MMO out there!

 

[Storm]

This thread Is getting pointless
for 1 it is now just the same arguments going back and forth
and the decision has been made its a moot point now

Go play and have fun or dont thats YOUR choice now

 

[Woodsman]

Two, that he isn't necessarily the final arbiter of what goes on in UO. EA has never learned from its own history, which should show them that broadly speaking it is more successful when it lets the studios just do their thing.

It's funny because the current CEO said a few years ago that EA really screwed up by micro-managing companies that it bought, and that it led to those companies-turned-studios producing low-quality products because of artificial deadlines or limitations imposed by EA.

And yet profitable games like UO are still affected by company-wide problems, and when Warhammer fell apart, in part due to decisions EA made, they started to do to Mythic what they did to Origin, and that is to devour/bury their identity within that of another group, in this case BioWare.

And, for us, that means (I suspect) that they make Cal run pretty much everything by them.

It sure sounds like it - I can remember producers/devs in the past coming up with fairly quick answers to complex or far-reaching problems and issues, and these days, it definitely feels like it's run through the full bureaucracy.

 

[Woodsman]

Sadly the ones who currently play this game have so much influence , when theres so many other player who would return just for a shot at the old day's ( if you don't or can't see that , then you don't really care about the game.)

Anybody still posting and/or paying cares about the game. Maybe we all have different visions, but if you're still posting or playing, you still care.

We can't even get past server consolidation??

The only reason for server consolidation is if you want to **** off everybody whose servers would be consolidated.

Server consolidation would drastically impact a lot of players and/or ruin UO for them - it would destroy a lot of remaining communities.

 

[Farquhar]

I stopped playing this game back in 2001 or so. Almost 10 years later I am reading the uo forums for updates on classic servers.

I knew, when Draconi made those posts on the forums a few months ago, that the reasoning behind not having a classic server was because you couldn't appease everyone. In fact, I think you copy pasted my words from that thread.

So, to all the Morgana's out there, you're the reason why this isn't happening. To all those people who wanted to put stipulations on rule sets so it catered more to their likings, it's your fault. EA will never make uo:mash up. Your message got lost in your own inability to come to a proper conclusion amongst yourself.

I am not surprised, if I were in EA's shoes, I'd of made the same decision. When the people - who still play the game - bicker amongst each other over utopian ultima online, everyone loses.

I have always professed a love of uo, and I still love the game that was played. Cal, if you want to "return to that spirit" I'll give you one piece of advice that you will choose not to listen to because you're the designer and I am the gamer.

Don't be world of warcraft. Don't be everquest. Don't be dark age of Camelot. Don't be Aion. The spirit of the game was lost when the mechanics of the game became commercialized. That's uo:r. That's item properties. That's artifact dungeons monsters. That's not UO. That was never the "spirit" of uo.

The players were the spirit of uo. With posts like this, you can't bring that back.

Good luck, I hope uo lasts another 13 years. The original idea behind the game deserves that kind of longevity. Don't screw it up.

 

[Woodsman]

Okay DAOC I'm not sure. We do know that UO actually turns a profit.. and there's no way warhammer is making crap.

IF DAOC wasn't making a profit, it would have been killed off before now. It's more than made whatever money EA invested into it.

The last estimates had it at an insanely low number of players, it has a permanent free trial, and their OFFICIAL forums get less posts than stratics.

Warhammer on the other hand, they may still be trying to recoup some costs, but I would be surprised if it lasts past the Star Wars launch.

 

[Vyal]

Omg gonna go kill some nubs - naked mage with dp war fork baby.

 

[Magdalene]

Tagging to last.

Either the Tram-Fel "who's sociopath" discussion stops now, or the whole thread will go BOOM.

Your choice.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

IF DAOC wasn't making a profit, it would have been killed off before now. It's more than made whatever money EA invested into it. Warhammer on the other hand, they may still be trying to recoup some costs, but I would be surprised if it lasts past the Star Wars launch.

Blog postings, a shaky source but it's the best we have, puts UO's and DAoC's numbers at about the same: 50,000 each.

For old games, respectable, especially in UO's case. (And it wouldn't surprise me at all if UO's numbers were higher; from the context, the person posting had every reason to provide a low UO estimate, no reason to provide a high UO estimate. So we can safely take 50,000 as a minimum...assuming the poster really was from Mythic at all!)

We can safely assume UO and DAoC both make profits; a Mythic official some years back (before WHO's launch) referred to UO as "wildly profitable" at 100k. So assuming it really is 50k now, I'm betting it's still profitable, just not wildly.

WHO....With all the time and effort they put in, I'd be very surprised if it had even made up its investment.

The last official numbers we had for WHO were for some EA report several years back. It had fallen from about 1 million to about 300k. Fallen fast.

The same blog post that put UO and DAoC at 50k put WHO at a mere 100k.

For UO, 50k, is extraordinary. For WHO, 100k is catastrophic. I, too, doubt WHO will survive the Star Wars launch.

As to UO...Well, EA is crazy. It can be bad for us if Star Wars does well, can be bad for us if they fail!

-Galen's player

 

[kelmo]

Tagging to last.

Either the Tram-Fel "who's sociopath" discussion stops now, or the whole thread will go BOOM.

Your choice.

aww! I was so gonna go there! *walks away...*

*winks*

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Tagging to last.

Either the Tram-Fel "who's sociopath" discussion stops now, or the whole thread will go BOOM.

Your choice.

It would be bad to lock this thread.

Indeed, it should probably replace the current custom shard sticky post. Since this one has an actual answer to the issue.

-Galen's player

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So, to all the Morgana's out there, you're the reason why this isn't happening.

LOL! Next will say I shot Martin Luther King!!!

The difference between you and I Farquhar is that I had no specific agenda beyond trying to influence the powers-that-be to create something, anything, that was better that what is currently offered. I had no specific devotion to any exact timeframe or build. That's your right, your prerogative, but just because some of us were willing to flex, it does not mean that we were the reason that EA didn't greenlight this thing.

As Cal pointed out, the real reason comes down to resources...and how they choose to spend them (and whom they choose to cater to with them). It's really that simple.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

LOL! Next will say I shot Martin Luther King!!!

...

On the other hand, Mags, I can see your point.....

-Galen's player

 

[Magdalene]

aww! I was so gonna go there! *walks away...*

*winks*

Stay... don't go...

 

[Bc-]

Thank you for the answer, I had sort of forgot about the whole thing till a friend told me a final answer was coming soon. It was a pipe dream to start, my logical side knew it wouldn't happen, but my nostalgic side got very excited

My UO account hasn't been up for about six years, so I can't complain, it didn't waste any of my time or money waiting for your answer. And for those of us that wanted a classic shard we all knew it wouldn't be enough to revive this game and return it to any sort of former glory, EA knows that, the resource output isn't worth the return. They know they will never top the subscriptions they once did, so hunker down, limit resources and just adjust the game they have. That is business, and EA is a very well run business.

And anyone that thinks this is the "death of UO!" is foolish, a game that has lasted this long among giants like World of Warcraft isn't going to die because two thousand fans aren't going to get their shard.

It is kind of funny, I wanted this shard for years.. and then a few months ago a player run shard goes up, with the exact rule set I am looking for with 1500+ on nightly, and I log in once run around and then have to log out because of work or the spouse or some other RL responsibility.. my 14 year old self wanted this shard so bad, but my 28 year old self says Too Bad, responsibility calls What is that old saying about having your cake and eating it too? What I am trying to say about this is you made the right choice. Interest in something like this is short lived, eventually you have to evolve the shard some how. And most of us that were 14 when you launched do not have the RL time to invest in a MMO anymore anyway.. which would have drastically hurt your numbers.

We will always have the memories, good luck to everyone playing UO and I hope you continue to have fun in it. It truly is the greatest MMO of all time.

Take care guys.

Blood Crypt
Sinners Among Saints
Sonoma

 

[Dicimiie]

Well... I can't say I'm surprised by the answer. I can, however, say that I'm disappointed.

It would appear that the powers that be have decided that keeping their current player base was a safer bet than attempting to regain those that left when Ultima Online was changed. I don't see the logic behind it myself, but then again, I'm not a business major. Logically speaking, though, how could keeping an ever-decreasing population happy be better than an influx of repeat players?

With no classic server to look forward to, I have little interest in UO as it stands now. I'll remember, quite fondly, those days where exceptionally crafted items were needed/wanted, and I'll remember those days where the community worked together as a community and not a single player game with avatar chat added.

It's a shame, really.

 

[Gorbs]

As Cal pointed out, the real reason comes down to resources...and how they choose to spend them (and whom they choose to cater to with them). It's really that simple.

It really is that simple, and I think all of us who supported the classic shard concept understand. I'm disappointed, but life goes on.

Hopefully they at least pulled together some rough cost and time estimates so if the idea is revisited down the line they have a starting point. Cal, please tell me you guys won't lose the notes/binders, so to speak.

 

[NuSair]

Who wants cheesecake?

I used to run the Magic the Gathering CCG events (and then director of CCGs) for Dragon*Con. In my first year, I tried to give everyone everything they wanted. I tried to have just about every format going on consistantly. While we did get it done, oh Lord, was it a cluster and there was constant pancakes going on.

The next year, I sat down and made a schedule, reduced the overall number of 'go as it fills up' tournaments and scheduled at least 2 of the popular type events over the convention weekend.

It worked out 100% better and the people were generally happy.

In that thread, I think that saying 'you can't please everyone' is a cop out. Just pick a point and do it.

Personally, I am against a Classic Shard, because I feel that it would take away from the creative progression of the CURRENT game. And without development, a progression of it's own, it would die. Plus, I don't think it would generate enough income on its own to justify its own development team.

 

[Woodsman]

We can safely assume UO and DAoC both make profits; a Mythic official some years back (before WHO's launch) referred to UO as "wildly profitable" at 100k. So assuming it really is 50k now, I'm betting it's still profitable, just not wildly.

I'm sure it's more profitable these days after the layoffs of the past 3 years.

As to UO...Well, EA is crazy. It can be bad for us if Star Wars does well, can be bad for us if they fail!

Given Cal's response to a comment I made earlier, I'm curious to know if the things Cal mentioned that changed between the beginning of January and now have something to do with Star Wars - namely some of them being pulled off of UO for a while to work on Star Wars. That's what I asked and he said it was too much to answer now and to save those questions for next week.

It really sounds like they are struggling and that a lot is going on around them, and my guess would be that it's Star Wars.

If Cal or anybody next week says they were pulled over to work on Star Wars or something along those lines, well that might be good - that would mean that BioWare sees value in them and isn't ignoring them. It would be wildly optimistic to think that there would be any kind of tit-for-tat - UO team helps on Star Wars over the last month or two, in return BioWare will help out with UO, but I'm a sucker for optimism.

Reading Cal's comments in December, they were winding down on some work that was being done on HS/SA, getting ready for holiday breaks, etc. and were going to roll out a quick video after they get back. They get back and all of the sudden, a lot of silence from certain people, no video, EA's new plans, etc. Something obviously happened - January 3 was the first day back at work after the holidays.

The last time around, when Cal said the video was being run past PR so they could, among other things, add more gameplay footage, I took that as a good sign - that there was gameplay of some sorts and that PR or some exec felt it was important to add even more. I couldn't see them making a big fuss about existing gameplay. That was the most important thing to me out of his comments then.

Now, with his comment "all the things that have happened between January 3rd and now", to me that's the most important thing that he's said this week, and too many people are hyperfocused on the classic shard debate, and seem to be oblivious to something that should be making us raise our eyebrows and going "what?" He did say the answers haven't changed, but I could point out that since January 3rd, EA has publicly committed itself to fewer titles that are bigger/better/more profitable, and some other things.

I go back and forth between being optimistic and being worried and even letting myself get caught up in petty arguments that were the same petty arguments from five years ago.

I know a lot of people are single-issue types that only care about the issues that are most important to them, but that "all the things that have happened between January 3rd and now" comment really jumps out at me, and should be concerning us more than any discussions about classic shards. We are very distracted with the classic shard thing, myself included.

 

[NuSair]

With no classic server to look forward to, I have little interest in UO as it stands now. I'll remember, quite fondly, those days where exceptionally crafted items were needed/wanted, and I'll remember those days where the community worked together as a community and not a single player game with avatar chat added.

It's a shame, really.

It's a matter of perception.

I used to LIVE at Brit forge on my Blacksmith/Tailor making armor for people all day and night long. But I have too tell you, I am having 10x more fun crafting now that I ever have. Imbueing has really engaged me in a way that sitting around making Archer Suits (remember those?) never did.

And I'll have to disagree on the community thing as well. I am consistantly doing things with other people, from champ spawns to peerless to events.

 

[Gunga_Din]

I'm sure it's more profitable these days after the layoffs of the past 3 years.
Given Cal's response to a comment I made earlier, I'm curious to know if the things Cal mentioned that changed between the beginning of January and now have something to do with Star Wars - namely some of them being pulled off of UO for a while to work on Star Wars. That's what I asked and he said it was too much to answer now and to save those questions for next week.

It really sounds like they are struggling and that a lot is going on around them, and my guess would be that it's Star Wars.

If Cal or anybody next week says they were pulled over to work on Star Wars or something along those lines, well that might be good - that would mean that BioWare sees value in them and isn't ignoring them. It would be wildly optimistic to think that there would be any kind of tit-for-tat - UO team helps on Star Wars over the last month or two, in return BioWare will help out with UO, but I'm a sucker for optimism.

Reading Cal's comments in December, they were winding down on some work that was being done on HS/SA, getting ready for holiday breaks, etc. and were going to roll out a quick video after they get back. They get back and all of the sudden, a lot of silence from certain people, no video, EA's new plans, etc. Something obviously happened - January 3 was the first day back at work after the holidays.

The last time around, when Cal said the video was being run past PR so they could, among other things, add more gameplay footage, I took that as a good sign - that there was gameplay of some sorts and that PR or some exec felt it was important to add even more. I couldn't see them making a big fuss about existing gameplay. That was the most important thing to me out of his comments then.

Now, with his comment "all the things that have happened between January 3rd and now", to me that's the most important thing that he's said this week, and too many people are hyperfocused on the classic shard debate, and seem to be oblivious to something that should be making us raise our eyebrows and going "what?" He did say the answers haven't changed, but I could point out that since January 3rd, EA has publicly committed itself to fewer titles that are bigger/better/more profitable, and some other things.

I go back and forth between being optimistic and being worried and even letting myself get caught up in petty arguments that were the same petty arguments from five years ago.

I know a lot of people are single-issue types that only care about the issues that are most important to them, but that "all the things that have happened between January 3rd and now" comment really jumps out at me, and should be concerning us more than any discussions about classic shards. We are very distracted with the classic shard thing, myself included.

Its a shame they don't realize Star Wars Old Republic is gonna fail miserably. From all the friends i've made in various MMO's, none of them are interested in it. I fear its failure could impact the company and then UO.

 

[Gunga_Din]

It's a matter of perception.

I used to LIVE at Brit forge on my Blacksmith/Tailor making armor for people all day and night long. But I have too tell you, I am having 10x more fun crafting now that I ever have. Imbueing has really engaged me in a way that sitting around making Archer Suits (remember those?) never did.

And I'll have to disagree on the community thing as well. I am consistantly doing things with other people, from champ spawns to peerless to events.

Your joking right? More fun now? My best crafting days were at the brit forge. Making suits for people, repairing items, getting known for my work and dedication. How about the interaction? You like sitting in your house and interacting with your vendor or the guy on icq asking for something? I prefer more direct in game interaction. Guys running up to me at the forge asking for a kat or heavy archer suit. Maybe full plate in verite?

How about endless supply of work from PK's looting people? I can't believe anyone who worked the brit forge prefers the new crafting.

 

[Woodsman]

I don't see the logic behind it myself, but then again, I'm not a business major. Logically speaking, though, how could keeping an ever-decreasing population happy be better than an influx of repeat players?

I could ask why, instead of putting $300 million into a single Star Wars game that has no existing playerbase, they instead sink $250 million into Star Wars, and say $25 million apiece into UO and DAOC that have existing playerbases.

That could come close to the costs of covering a classic shard as well as a new or vastly upgraded EC and artwork. The classic shard could bring old players back and the upgraded or new client and artwork would bring in new players.

It's EA though.

 

[NuSair]

Your joking right? More fun now? My best crafting days were at the brit forge. Making suits for people, repairing items, getting known for my work and dedication. How about the interaction? You like sitting in your house and interacting with your vendor or the guy on icq asking for something? I prefer more direct in game interaction. Guys running up to me at the forge asking for a kat or heavy archer suit. Maybe full plate in verite?

How about endless supply of work from PK's looting people? I can't believe anyone who worked the brit forge prefers the new crafting.

Nice of you to make assumptions. Just last night, someone caught me imbueing armor for my bard in my house, which turned into a 3 hour conversation while I made armor for 3 of his characters.

I don't use a vendor for armor. And I don't interact with anyone still playing UO on ICQ or any other IM program.

That is all my work, is IN GAME INTERACTION.

Nice of you to assume you know what I do though.

And yes, I like it better working out properties and resist rather than just pumping out generic suits.

 

[Dicimiie]

Your joking right? More fun now? My best crafting days were at the brit forge. Making suits for people, repairing items, getting known for my work and dedication. How about the interaction? You like sitting in your house and interacting with your vendor or the guy on icq asking for something? I prefer more direct in game interaction. Guys running up to me at the forge asking for a kat or heavy archer suit. Maybe full plate in verite?

How about endless supply of work from PK's looting people? I can't believe anyone who worked the brit forge prefers the new crafting.

This is pretty much my answer, minus the snarky comments. You didn't have to go find an NPC vendor to buy a suit of armor or a weapon. You could go to the Brit forge pretty much any time of day or night and find a blacksmith there ready to make you whatever you wanted. You can't beat that kind of player interaction. And I'd rather repair items on-site than put repair deeds on a vendor. Again... it's the interaction of it that is missed.

I'm sorry, but I personally miss the old ways. The system as it stands now is most definitely not the system I loved before. It's way too different. It feels forced. There's no flow. There is too much randomization. It is a completely different game in my eyes.

 

[Banner]

Well since I lost about 5 min of my life reading ALL the post in this thread not to mention the amount of blood lost that exploded out of my eye balls.... could someone PLEASE tell me am I going to lose the Classic Shard or not????? Just one simple yes or no PLZZZZZ....

 

[Lady Michelle]

ROFL... You just don't get it do you. I did re-activate my account when I heard about the possibility of a classic shard here on Stratics in May and even upgraded to SA. I voiced my opinion in almost all the classic shard threads. I stopped my sub in December, when I figured no classic option would happen. What did my support get me? Nothing, but it did put a few bucks in EA's pockets. I realized that there was no way for the Devs to know why I re-subscribed other then to read Stratics.

I'll give you another example of how subs can be misleading. In 1999 I cancelled my account because I was playing UO way too much, this was before Trammel when PKs were a problem, but that isn't why I cancelled. I got an F, D, and a couple Cs in one semester and needed to focus on studies. I didn't re-activate until after UO:R when my grades improved. Just going by my subs one could conclude that I quit because of PKs and re-activated because of Trammel, but that just wasn't the case.

My money obviously didn't go to a classic shard. You fail to realize that you already have what you want and that I'm not interested in paying for you to get more pixel crack. You never paid to subsidize a classic shard because it never happened. Your claim is so ridiculous I don't even know how else to explain it to you.

Anyways, I support Cal's reasons for not going forward with a classic shard. It was a business decision.

Good luck UO. This is my last post. I have no hard feelings and hope it lasts for years to come for those that still enjoy it.

Since I didn't know you were playing when I posted to you. My comment was to the millions who wanted the classic shard but wasn't willing to play, and pay. To give them the resources they needed to work on a classic shard was more Important to play on free shards, and no I dont get what I want but this is not about me so I will leave it.

 

[Flutter]

Well since I lost about 5 min of my life reading ALL the post in this thread not to mention the amount of blood lost that exploded out of my eye balls.... could someone PLEASE tell me am I going to lose the Classic Shard or not????? Just one simple yes or no PLZZZZZ....

There is no classic shard to lose.
Do you mean the classic client? If so, this has nothing to do with that.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

could someone PLEASE tell me am I going to lose the Classic Shard or not????? Just one simple yes or no PLZZZZZ....

There is no Classic Shard to lose...and there won't ever be.

Hopefully that answers your question plainly enough.

 

[Dicimiie]

Since I didn't know you were playing when I posted to you. My comment was to the millions who wanted the classic shard but wasn't willing to play, and pay. To give them the resources they needed to work on a classic shard was more Important to play on free shards, and no I dont get what I want but this is not about me so I will leave it.

Paying a UO subscription fee for years in the hopes of a classic server being built would be akin to getting a subscription to a gym and never going in hopes that they put in a pool.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Paying a UO subscription fee for years in the hopes of a classic server being built would be akin to getting a subscription to a gym and never going in hopes that they put in a pool.

Hmmm...not sure I disagree entirely, but I know that for me, it was more like getting a gym membership, and then slowly over time realizing that all of the workout machines had been replaced by easy chairs and reading materials. Signed up for a gym, ended up with a Barnes and Noble. I sort of kept hoping they would at least put an excercise bike or a treadmill somewhere in the back...but it never happened.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Time to call a halt to this

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