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Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Indeed. I personally wanted to tell the single answer sooner BUT in scope with an answer to ... "Well if you are NOT going to do that ... what ARE you going to do?"

And yes, I do feel the frustration too of not hitting messaging deadlines.

In three years as part of this game and removing barriers to getting things done you would think we'd get better at this, but it remains an "opportunity for improvement" as they say in the Human Resources world.

- C
When it comes to Success and Winning, I personally think Napoleon Hill said it best:

Success is achieved and maintained by those that try, and keep trying...
Winners never Quit, and Quitters never Win

Add those tidbits to a relentlessly applied Oz Principle:

What Else Can We Do To Achieve The Desired Result?

type of mentality, and I am certain you and your team will find the way to "Get Better" and capitalize on those "Opportunities for Improvements" as you put it.

It is obvious that "The Plan" currently in use to disseminate information and keep players up to date has not been working out so well...even to me.

You were in the military, as an Officer, Cal. And you were in the Air Force. I, too, served my country in the Armed Forces as an NCO in the Navy. I was introduced to the discipline of the service as a young man, and feel that that the discipline I learned there has served me well.

I am not sure why you folks don't seem to have an organized plan to ensure good communications with the player base of UO, or why when a wrench falls into the works, that there seems to be no contingency plans readily available to cope with the challenge. And honestly...one thing I am not a big fan of is deferring blame or making excuses for failure. I am extremely pleased to see that you did not do that in this case.

What I would love to see, as I am sure many others would, is a spelled out plan to use with your player base that we can count on for communication and updates on issues that we are waiting on. I do not believe that "No News is Good News". I think no news is no news, and for me, it becomes discouraging.

So, if it is possible to do so, I am sure that the time spent planning out a way to not have to tell us "No Excuses" in the future may be to put together (even with the help maybe of some of the more involved community members...I don't want to mention any names, but some initials that spring to mind are "Martyna Zmuir" and "GalenKnighthawke". :party:) some kind of a solid plan to make sure we get updates and meaningful communications on a regular basis, that will preclude any such type of requisite apologies.

I admire you for coming here and posting this message. I am not trying to be a finger wagger/holier than thou, either. I am just sayin' that this is the time to make the plan, apply persistence, and follow it through with the kind of action we know you can muster.

I will, in closing, quote Mr. Hill, who says about plans, and finding ones that work:

If the first plan you adopt does not work successfully, replace it with a new plan. If this new plan fails, to work, replace it, in turn, with still another, and so on until you find a plan which does work. Right here is the point at which the majority of people meet with failure because of their lack of persistence in creating new plans to take the place of those which fail
Thomas Edison "failed" 10,000 times before he perfected the incandescent light bulb. That is, he met with temporary defeat 10,000 times before his efforts were crowned with success
Temporary defeat means only one thing-the certain knowledge that there is something wrong with your plan.
 

Lady Michelle

Sprite Full SP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I don't think you are going to take too much flaming and forking for the annoncement. Most of us Classic UO fans are a lot more reasonable than some of the anti-Classic posters here make us out to be.

In the end, it is a business decision...period. I don't think too many of us are going to take it personally.



I think this is a bit of a dodge on your part Cal. Most of the Classic Shard supporters (at least the ones that posted about it) out there pretty much agreed on a ruleset and it was stickied here for a long time.

You will never please EVERYONE...it is impossible, but this decision isn't about pleasing everyone...




THAT is what it is really about.

I, for one, am really glad that you finally put the issue to bed once and for all. For some of us, it is the end of our time in Ultima Online. For others, it is confirmation that the things they enjoy in the game are going to be continued.

It was indeed a business decision, and that decision...quite simply...is that EA/Mythic does not want, nor need, the business of Classic UO fans.

My accounts were already closed, as I anticipated this decision. That money will go to other pursuits.

But in the end, it is really good to know where EA/Mythic stands, and where the remaining Classic UO fans rate on their list of business priorities.
If the classic UO fans seriously wanted a classic shard. They would of been paying for UO giving the needed resources to build the classic shard. It was more important to stay away, and play on free shards taking away the resources UO would need to build a classic shard. Now you have quit and have taken more resources away from ever getting that shard.
 

Dermott of LS

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...

I don't know how possible it would be, but I've always wondered about them trying to implement all of the Ultima games into UO

One of my FAVORITE moments in the early beta of SA was the first time I went down to the area outside of Tomb of Kings that is almost an EXACT recreation of the gargoyle lands from Ultima 6.

That REALLY made me want the same thing... take the UO engine (I personally would have wanted KR graphics, but that's just my opinion) and remake the Ultimas using it. Ultima Aiera has a good rundown of remakes made and in progress, but nothing showing with a UO-graphics level engine. I did try to get Dungeon Siege up and running, but it doesn't seem to be compatible with my desktop machine anymore (maybe it doesn't like 64bit?) so I couldn't get the U6 remake in that working (boo!).
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
What happened to not taking it personal?
It simply is what it is. I am not going to pay for something I do not enjoy. If my cable TV provider cancelled all of my favorite channels, and the only thing I could watch was reality shows because they are popular, I'd cancel that too.

It is not a personal thing with me. I am not mad at Cal, or the dev team. However, I am simpy not going to pay for something just so others can enjoy it. UO is a business, not a charity. If post-Trammel fans want to continue playing that game, fine...but it won't come at my expense any longer. Period.

And I am quite sure that there are at least a few remaining customers that feel the same way I do.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
If the classic UO fans seriously wanted a classic shard. They would of been paying for UO giving the needed resources to build the classic shard. It was more important to stay away, and play on free shards taking away the resources UO would need to build a classic shard. Now you have quit and have taken more resources away from ever getting that shard.
Let's review for a moment:

- EA said to pre-Trammel UO players "We don't want you in our game. We make plenty of money without the need for your subscription dollars. Here is Trammel, and the end of your playstyle and communities...don't like it? We don't care."

- An awful lot of players voted with their dollars and indeed cancelled their accounts. Others stayed with it. Some liked the 'new version', others didn't.

- Since that time, players have come and gone, and some stayed...paying customers, despite the fact that they had grown increasingly unhappy about the direction the game had taken.

- Finally, the issue was decided, and EA/Mythic said "We make plenty of money without the need for your subscription dollars. We are not making a Classic Shard to keep you as a customer, or to bring back the people we ran off the first time."

What on Earth makes you think that any of us, past or present, would even dream of contributing resources to a company, to a game, that has more than once told us to take our resources and shove them where the sun don't shine?

EA wants our resources...EA needs to create something we are willing to pay for.
 
N

NorCal

Guest
If the classic UO fans seriously wanted a classic shard. They would of been paying for UO giving the needed resources to build the classic shard. It was more important to stay away, and play on free shards taking away the resources UO would need to build a classic shard. Now you have quit and have taken more resources away from ever getting that shard.
And how would the Devs know that the reason I'm paying my account is to support a classic shard and not the current form of UO? Why should I let my dollars be used to subsidize the current form of UO that I do not support.
 

Dermott of LS

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...

- EA said to pre-Trammel UO players "We don't want you in our game. We make plenty of money without the need for your subscription dollars. Here is Trammel, and the end of your playstyle and communities...don't like it? We don't care."

Ummm... no, just no.

It's closer to "Holy crap, EQ is beating us like a red-headed stepchild, we need to do something to give people some sort of choice!"

There was a need for housing space and there was a need for players to have a choice to be able to play the game to their liking and Trammel filled both criteria.

Now we can go all day long about how the implementation was botched (in my opinion, the rulesets should have been reversed to preserve the very non-PvP communities that were built in SPITE of PKs), but the fact of the matter is that UO NEEDED some form of control on PKs beyond what it had at the time. Was the outcome perfect? Not in the least, but just because YOU feel like it was a slap in the face, doesn't mean all pre-Tram UO players feel the same way.

-signed a UO player since Jan 1998
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
There was a need for housing space and there was a need for players to have a choice to be able to play the game to their liking and Trammel filled both criteria.
And in the process of offering a choice to some, they took a choice a way from others.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

but the fact of the matter is that UO NEEDED some form of control on PKs beyond what it had at the time. Was the outcome perfect? Not in the least, but just because YOU feel like it was a slap in the face, doesn't mean all pre-Tram UO players feel the same way.

-signed a UO player since Jan 1998
Obviously, I never felt strongly enough about Trammel to actually cancel my accounts until recently. However, you seem to be missing the point. There were a good number of players that cancelled their accounts when Trammel was introduced, or just after it. Other players joined...heck, one might even be able to argue that the net result was a player gain. But that is not the point. By introducing Trammel, in the way they did it, they told a certain portion of pre-Trammel UO players to shove off. Maybe you did not like those players, maybe you did not care that they were gone, but to expect them to simply continue to pay for the game because you, and others, prefered the 'new version' is just silly.

-signed a former UO player from 1997-2011
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Don't bother.

-Galen's player

...

- EA said to pre-Trammel UO players "We don't want you in our game. We make plenty of money without the need for your subscription dollars. Here is Trammel, and the end of your playstyle and communities...don't like it? We don't care."

Ummm... no, just no.

It's closer to "Holy crap, EQ is beating us like a red-headed stepchild, we need to do something to give people some sort of choice!"

There was a need for housing space and there was a need for players to have a choice to be able to play the game to their liking and Trammel filled both criteria.

Now we can go all day long about how the implementation was botched (in my opinion, the rulesets should have been reversed to preserve the very non-PvP communities that were built in SPITE of PKs), but the fact of the matter is that UO NEEDED some form of control on PKs beyond what it had at the time. Was the outcome perfect? Not in the least, but just because YOU feel like it was a slap in the face, doesn't mean all pre-Tram UO players feel the same way.

-signed a UO player since Jan 1998
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I find it prudent to remind everyone that more was stated in Cal's post than stuff about the custom rules shard, and more will (presumably) be addressed in the video than a custom rules shard.

-Galen's player
 

Dermott of LS

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...

And in the process of offering a choice to some, they took a choice a way from others.

This is a faulty premise. They didn't take anything away, they allowed people to decide how they wanted to play the game. If that took away a certain segment's precious supply of risk-less victims, it was by the PLAYERS' choice, not the removal of choice from anyone else. People were going to choose, it was either choose by ingameruleset or choose by closing accounts (which was already happening once EQ released).

They never took the choice of PvP away, they just allowed people to choose if and when they want to be involved in it.

they told a certain portion of pre-Trammel UO players to shove off

Ah, but that's not what you initially stated, is it?

Let's review:

Statement A: EA said to pre-Trammel UO players "We don't want you in our game.

vs

Statement B: they told a certain portion of pre-Trammel UO players to shove off

One implies all, one implies some. And really that's not what they said at all in either case.
 

LordDrago

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yes, it's done. So why isn't it out? The answer to a "Why" question at the Academy is "No Excuse." So let's just go with that.
Well, back in the Long Grey Line, we would reply with a "No Excuse, Sir!" while standing at attention.

Zoomie School....go figure. :)
 

Neutron Bomb

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
3 things have kept me going in UO for this long.

1. My friends
2. My rares
3. Classic Shard

Only 2 reasons left. With Facebook and a little bit of therapy, EA Mythic would lose another paying customer. *sigh*
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
This is a faulty premise. They didn't take anything away, they allowed people to decide how they wanted to play the game.
Look, you are welcome to delude yourself in any manner you deem appropriate. But when they introduced Trammel, PKs and Anti-PKs lost the ability to play the game the way they wanted to play it. Certainly, it is arguable that this was done for the betterment of the game...but it is rather pointless to drag that dead horse back out into the street and begin beating it relentlessly. The choice was made then to exclude players that enjoyed non-consensual PvP, and it has been done again...except this time, the invitation to take your subscription dollars and shove them has also been extended to those that did not like Age of Shadows as well.
 
F

Fayled Dhreams

Guest
well cadet ... the no excuse response is >supposed to be rendered< immediately upon the question being asked ...
*shrugs*
Its a training method for when one gets into "the real world" and need to make (complete/correct)decisions ... as a leader, planner, member of a team.
*sigh*
In three years as part of this game and removing barriers to getting things done you would think we'd get better at this, but it remains an "opportunity for improvement" as they say in the Human Resources world.
Apparently you are still in schools mode ... cadet ... >I have no excuse< IS the full form(sans the appropriate title: Sir! , Maam! , Rank! , Title! etc)
HR wise: continues to display failure to meet minimum standards or a mastery of basic core values. Not recommended for promotion at this time.
:thumbsup: and as HR >is my field< ^that one^ would stand up in court.

not right now. *facepalm smear*
As before:
Calvin elucidates the "function"(context) TO his mom ...
Mom! Now is now, and now is now ... EVERY moment is now ... So:
Not now =means= never ...

same for not >right< now ...

meh!

Gonna do a video HOC ...
to .... ????

Then release the vid ... ????

no broccoli for you

is it right now?
is it right now?
is it right now?
is it right now?
is it right now?
 
C

ChReuter

Guest
By the way Cal, on behalf of all your players I accept your apology for this mess.

Not that you can be bothered with owning your mistakes ever... but I'll accept your apology nonetheless.
"On behalf of all your players" What? I wish people wouldn't make comments such as this. Myself and a lot of others I'm sure do not in fact accept his apology. What a load of rubbish.

I was a supporter of the classic shard, but I can also accept the choice made. Well I could accept it if they could actually say "no". The line of knowing how to respond to people was crap. I honestly believe the not right now stuff is more about trying to keep a few extra accounts than it is about any care whatsoever for peoples feelings.

Nonetheless, I have no other problems with accepting that the shard was shot down. What bothers me most I believe, is some people totally accepting the poor response times and missed deadlines. A week overdo is one thing, but come on, this has been a bit much. Don't make excuses and just stop setting deadlines you can't keep. Simple.

Your interaction with the customer base has been well below par.
 

Kael

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If the classic UO fans seriously wanted a classic shard. They would of been paying for UO giving the needed resources to build the classic shard. It was more important to stay away, and play on free shards taking away the resources UO would need to build a classic shard. Now you have quit and have taken more resources away from ever getting that shard.
And how would the Devs know that the reason I'm paying my account is to support a classic shard and not the current form of UO? Why should I let my dollars be used to subsidize the current form of UO that I do not support.
Kinda funny...with this decision a fair amount of people may actually quit the game they have hung onto for some time. How does that add more resources to EA/Mythic??
How many people use the EC client compared to old 2D?? Perhaps EA/Mythic should just cut off support of EC and make a Classic Shard and I could be dancing around giddy like Lady Storm :)
 
A

AesSedai

Guest
- The classic thread.

It was called: video update
It delivered plenty of formative information.
It dotted the lines that were already implied...

And now,
Here We Go Again (cars)
Same As It Ever Was (heads)
David Byrne once said: water flowing underground. Once in a lifetime...
 

covert

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think they've thrown enough resources into the EC to warrant finishing it (getting as close to bug free as possible). They're so close now that it kills me to see it the way it is. There is a golden opportunity for them, as they have very dedicated modders who have done wonders with what they've been given; if they can get rid of the bugs then they can really toss a large burden off of their back, I think. Not to imply that the modders should be doing all of the work, but interaction with those modders would really be fantastic. It's one of the great things about the EC that I really missed when I had to go back to the classic client.

It'd really suck to have a third failed client buried and the time put into developing it gone to waste.
 

Cear Dallben Dragon

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Hey Mark,

I'll be drinking a St. Pauli Girl for you during the video.

Regards,
Cear Dragon

I figured this was better than a "support Mark's Drinking" thread.
 
S

Shinobi

Guest
Was the outcome perfect? Not in the least, but just because YOU feel like it was a slap in the face, doesn't mean all pre-Tram UO players feel the same way.

-signed a UO player since Jan 1998
Why couldn't this type of opinion been applied to a classic shard? Like others said, it was easily done on player servers, but the entire dev team couldn't figure out a way to please the majority of pro-classic players.

I am not hardcore pro-classic shard, but I see why they're pissed. You say "the verdict on the classic shard", then say "not right now"? "Maybe" isn't a verdict.

Judge: "Jury, have you reached a verdict?"

Jury: "Ehhh..."

A classic shard will take away from other shards? Oh, God forbid you don't slap a new color and title on an old item graphic and spoon feed it to the rares community as a "new" item, so they can turn around and sell it for $500 to some moron who will cry that they lost $500 when this crappy item gets stolen. UO is now nothing but a damn chatroom with customizable avatars.

The only thing original in UO is the relationship between enemies in PvP. The actual hate two players can have for each other. Online friendships are easily faked, but the rivalry is real. PvP is ruined due to (among other things) the flood of artifacts into UO. Don't get me started on imbueing either. What's coming out soon? More armor sets? Wow keep the flood coming. Stop releasing more items into UO, it is all ya'll do and it's ruining UO. So yes, let's say "no" to a classic shard for now so we can focus on ruining UO's economy and gameplay even more.

I was quitting UO, then got reeled back in by High Seas. What happened? Ya'll made ship PvP impossible due to saltpeter. But wait, there's still the Whale! Described as a "housing option" on water, SURELY this will be cool. What's that? It isn't multiple decks, and just takes up your whole screen and has a larger hold? The only way to reasonably obtain this is by purchasing it from you? Oh boy, sign me up!

Sorry about the rant, but a classic shard would have been a much better endeavor than new pixels. And now Magicinia is being converted into another bank sitting option? Pathetic.

I hardly log on anymore, and I'm on my last ounce of interest in this game. I propose a mass account cancellation if one of the following doesn't happen VERY soon:

1. An update to throw a bone to thieves (a fairly LARGE bone, that is).

2. A massive fix to PvP.

3. Anything to help Siege (I personally refuse to play Siege, but I think it's disgusting how much they're ignored).

4. ANY FORM of a pre-AoS shard.


Help someone other than Trammel, and the Rares Community's rl pockets, or I'm done.

P.S. I'm gonna copy this post into a new thread for further discussion. The thread is in UO Spiels N Rants.
 

hawkeye_pike

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
We are going to do our best to bring the spirit of what the community has been asking for back.
Wow. This little statement may have more impact than you might have intended. Why?

Cause the community has been asking for very different and even contradictory things concerning the spirit of the players. For example, for many players today this game inspires them because they can play it like a single-player game with all their freedom and mini-games but no risk and no dangers. Many other players state that community spirit can only exist if there's conflict, good and evil, and you are confronted with it. Somewhere in between may lie the truth.

We all know that love and hate, greed and revenge, success and fear are very strong feelings that are essential to MAKE a strong community. But also that griefing will put off many players.

I'm really curious about what you came up with.
 
A

Aragon100

Guest
If the classic UO fans seriously wanted a classic shard. They would of been paying for UO giving the needed resources to build the classic shard. It was more important to stay away, and play on free shards taking away the resources UO would need to build a classic shard. Now you have quit and have taken more resources away from ever getting that shard.
Our game were taken away from us. Do you expect us to play a game were not interested in?

Supporting a game we dont recognize anymore?

I dont think so.
 

Kojak

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
thank god they're not making a classic shard - that's the first good decision they've made in years - that's all I want is for them to be wasting time on something that stupid - work on the game I play plz - kthx
 
W

Woodsman

Guest
Why couldn't this type of opinion been applied to a classic shard?
They couldn't get people to agree on a classic shard and Cal stated that in his comments.

Morgana, myself, and many others see a classic shard as pre-UO:R, many others see it as pre-AOS. That right there is a recipe for disaster because creating a classic shard that is pre-UO:R is going to **** off one group of classic supporters, and creating a classic shard that is pre-AOS is going to **** off a different group.

They don't even have the resources for a classic shard either way, and it's been blindingly obvious that they haven't for quite a while, so we're arguing over a moot point. People who claim to be holding out until now were fooling themselves, because anybody paying attention over the past few years could easily see that things were going downhill when it comes to resources.

EA should have stated this well before now, but it sounds like somebody's hands were tied and the resources were simply not going to happen, not with the $300 million elephant in the living room.
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This thread turned a bit batty.

Well, roughly a thousand people voiced their opinion of wanting a classic shard. I'm not sure how many people play UO, but it seemed like a significant number.

EA wants UO to compete with newer games and tried to make a new client (several times). The classic shard would, by definition, only be supported by 2D. The initial problem, then, is the same problem we have with UO as it is now, except for the fact that free shards would directly compete with anything EA put out as an official classic shard. So now you have competition with yourself, and competition with copyright infringement emulators, as Cal commented on earlier in this thread. So one of the big questions EA has to decide is why would anyone new, or especially any of the free sharders, start paying $10-13 a month to play something that is ancient (1997 graphics) and something that is currently free (if you're a free sharder). And I think that's the first major hurdle; EA isn't going to fund a classic project unless they can get bucks for it.

If EA ever did make a classic shard, there probably wouldn't be any EMs. I mean, look at Siege. If there aren't any live events, then what else can EA do to make their classic shard better than a free shard? Make just that shard free to play, and hope new people will subscribe to the current shards? That doesn't seem like a solid plan and profit has to be made.

So then you have the option of making the classic shard free to play but with the option to buy things through UOGameCodes, like the advanced character token for example. Or maybe all the skill caps lock at 80 at first, and you have to buy 90 and 100 from UOGameCodes. And you lose some of your core fanbase, because now it isn't classic, it's just another crappy free to play. But the bottom line is a free to play would have to nickel and dime people some how...fully trained nightmare for $4.99? Et cetera, et cetera. I can totally see why the classic idea is a "not now."

Anyway, classic to me is T2A. And if you don't know what T2A means I don't want to be on your classic shard ;p.
 

HD2300

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The BS is over. The answer is no. There is no point crying over split milk.

I wish that the answer was yes, because the epic trainwreck that would have ensued would have resulted in a lot of change that would have been beneficial.

All I have to add is that if on March 1 if they don't announce f2p or a 100% commitment to a complete revamp of ALL graphics in one of the existing clients, UO is going to have a very shaky next 2 years.
 

Lady Michelle

Sprite Full SP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
And how would the Devs know that the reason I'm paying my account is to support a classic shard and not the current form of UO? Why should I let my dollars be used to subsidize the current form of UO that I do not support.
When Cal, and Dev brought up making a classic shard. You and others could of been playing and posted here on the boards. Posted something like Im playing and paying to support a classic shard. maybe stuck it in your signature box.
But like you said
Why should I let my dollars be used to subsidize the current form of UO that I do not support
but why should I or others who pay for you to get a classic shard that we dont support, and never will play on? When you or others won't.
 

covert

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Then I'd chalk up your paying of the subscription as an error on your part. You weren't promised a classic shard.
 

Lady Michelle

Sprite Full SP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Lady Michelle are you nuts? I been dishing out cash for the past 3 years waiting for a classic TYPE shard.
I chose another path thats to go play a classic free shard EA can kiss my ass.
Im not talking about you Im talking about the ones who want it but dont pay like you do, and others. Sorry didnt mean that towards you.

but I am nuts though
 
V

Vyal

Guest
Lady Michelle are you nuts? I been dishing out cash for the past 3 years waiting for a classic TYPE shard.
I chose another path thats to go play a classic free shard EA can kiss my ass.
Im not talking about you Im talking about the ones who want it but dont pay like you do, and others. Sorry didnt mean that towards you.

but I am nuts though
it's ok. but you can put me in that group now however...
anyways good luck people. I have better things to do now then argue with people about this. its not going to ever happen, people will quit for good this time.
 
G

Ganondorf00

Guest
I don't know why Morgana posts this much, classic UO fans are pretty much done with UO now, it's just something to remember when you feel like being nostalgic of the past.

Now we got that answer, it's a no, so i can close this browser window and wish the UO community good luck for the future. Good luck and good bye.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I was all for a classic myself but not going to cry over it.

Since they are not going to do a classic the next best thing for UO to finally move into the future by.....

1) Dump the 2d client and fix the EC. I see posts and even Cal mentioning resources so why not save some more resources by killing the old client and move to the new client. "Why should we paying for 2 clients!! I want the best bang for my buck so it be best not to waste it" as some posters should be saying. For UO to be profitable and continue it's time to get rid of one client and be more modern.

2) Use the EC and guess what.....cheating is solved for the time being. The program that cant be mentioned doesnt work with the EC. Modders make excellent apps and are legal :)

3) With the focus on one client bugs can be looked at and fixed faster.

You get my point......if no classic shard is viable and to costly then save some more by killing one client. That just be more money to cover their new pet project :)

Arenadome (UO version of Thunderdome)

Two clients enter..one client leaves.
 
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Woodsman

Guest
The choice was made then to exclude players that enjoyed non-consensual PvP, and it has been done again...except this time, the invitation to take your subscription dollars and shove them has also been extended to those that did not like Age of Shadows as well.
The choice was to make a lot of money and to respond to EQ allowing for non-PvPers. That's what companies do, and that's why UO is still around. Hate on it all you want and know that I agree with you about Tram disrupting communities, but if the decision wasn't made to open up UO to non-PvPers, UO would have been long closed by now.

This is EA we are talking about, they don't keep games open because they are fond of them, they are not a charity. Hell, if Mark Jacobs hadn't stepped up to the plate when he did, UO would have already been closed before now - it didn't fit into EA's plans when he stepped up, and it definitely doesn't fit into the plans they announced earlier this month.

EA has publicly announced earlier this month that they want fewer titles that are better and have bigger profits. They made it clear several times that it's not enough to make a profit, it has to be big. That means things like Dragon Age, the sports stuff, Star Wars, and the occasional new shooter. That definitely doesn't include UO. It's ironic in a way, because the man who used to run the sports division of EA actively worked against Origin. He maybe gone, but he got what he wanted - Origin and its titles are all but dead and buried, and are only discussed when people talk about what old games would be cool to have ported to the iPhone.

We're all arguing, and meanwhile, the $300 million elephant in the living room that has Star Wars written all over it has been antsy. Should that $300 million elephant decide to imitate Warhammer, this argument won't matter - that elephant will tear the entire BioWare Mythic house down and EA will gut BioWare and we will be lucky if UO survives. The last time an MMORPG fell apart for EA, a lot of people lost their jobs within the MMORPG group.

I haven't always been happy with things going on with UO, and I've taken long breaks as a result, rather than sit around thinking something might change. What I do know is that I love UO, warts and all, and most of you do as well, including those of you raging over a classic shard or raging over Trammel. You may not admit it, but you are still furious over things that happened a decade ago, and that is a clear sign that you still love UO. If you didn't care, you would have walked away many years ago and not come back.

I've walked away and told myself I didn't care and to hell with AOS and Mondain's Legacy and everything else, and low and behold, I find that I do care.

I did WOW, EQ, Star Wars, even DAOC and AC. I also did the freeshard thing. I found plenty of companions and like-minded folks and rulesets that I enjoyed, but something kept drawing me back to the official shards every so often.

I know very little about this dev team - everybody I personally knew has long since moved on or been laid off, but I do know they want to keep their jobs, and that means doing what their bosses at EA tell them to do. Maybe some of you have been lucky to have job security your whole adult life or you're still young enough to live with your parents, but trust me, it's a crappy economy right now and finding a new job is not fun - I've been through that a few times. We maybe the paying customers, but we can't call up Cal or whoever and tell them how it's going to be or to sit on something. The executives at EA can and do.

Not you Morgana, but others in other threads have pulled this "we're the customers, you do what we say" crap, and it's childish and shows a complete lack of understanding in regards to how a large company works. If UO generates $12 million a year, chances are high that they don't get anywhere near $10 million out of it for work on UO - EA wants to maximize profits and that means taking profits from projects like UO and plugging them into projects like Star Wars. They get what EA gives them, and they do what EA management tells them to do, or they find themselves looking for a new job.

The things that we told ourselves back when the numbers from UO:R/AOS started to decline no longer apply. When you have well over 200,000 subscriptions, you have a lot of leeway and plenty of room to go downhill. 150,000, even 100,000, things are still okay, if a wee bit nervous for us. When you start hitting 75,000 and below, you start running out of room, especially when EA announces to its investors that it's chasing after fewer titles that are more profitable.

There is a point at which you run out of runway, and either you are in the air and wheels up, or really bad things are about to happen. I get the feeling that UO is running out of runway, and I'm nervous about what I'm going to hear next week. If I hear more booster pack stuff, I'm bracing for impact - that's the kind of stuff that appeals to existing customers, not brand new customers.

I want UO to be around five years from now. If that means the resources are committed to the EC, etc. rather than a classic shard, then whatever it takes. It does us no good to have a classic shard if UO gets shut down in a few years.

A part of me thinks this video has been delayed so long because we are hearing about the future of UO and I've got a weird feeling in my stomach. Some of the hostility in here makes me think I'm not alone in being worried. A lot of people lash out when they are nervous, and this is no different.
 
W

Woodsman

Guest
Yes this wouldve been great and all but then you Trammies flooded the markets in a sandbox game with all your crap that the people in fellucia worked hard for. Why didnt they just make non pvp shards like any smart franchise has done?
Because those "smart" franchises didn't exist when UO rolled out, and they had no idea how things would turn out, or that UO would even last past a year.
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Most of you first cry that Cal isn't sharing any information when he's supposed to, then you lash out worse than I ever could about the issues that concern me in UO.. Then he posts something bordering on the irrelevant, far too generic to be of any value and you praise him, defend his position and police those that do not do the same like crazed zealots. Not to mention.. What do you REALLY expect from this communication, the clips Cal has in store? What kind of answers would a HoC provide that you haven't already heard? -.-?

Having cancelled my accounts and only lurking here, hoping for several major issues to get addressed for a change, I just see more of the same. Shinobi had some good points, Morgana did too.. I wish I could fully agree with Llewen though we're at least on the same page I believe. Maybe it's time to face the fact I belonged to a minor group of players and in fact one considered an abomination! I hate Magery in UO but now I feel like Merlin :p My time is long gone, this is NOT the Ultima I played any more. It's not the players' fault. They did not create Trammel and all this, they were given it. They just don't want to go back. If it never existed they'd probably keep playing, or I hope they would or they are lying when they praise UO's charms. But UO's current style is not for me.

But that's as much as one should take. Martyna or someone else wrote about the style some of you play, judging them as individuals, not just as players :

"So·ci·o·path". Followed by a definition.. :stretcher:

Ohhhh man.. I mean REALLY!? REALLY-REALLY!!? You're judging people using such terms as if they were nothing serious? In a game? From the way they play..? Do you even know what you actually just said about people you don't even KNOW one bit, out-side UO? :mf_prop: Whew..! I'd be wondering where to begin telling you how ridiculous this makes you look, if I didn't know where to stop to save me some time and you the trouble of trying to justify your point of view on this. I'm not insulted, I'm rather amused to be honest.. Such stupidity. :lol:

The stuff of some really cool and enlightening songs, literally.. People like you. Go ahead, sink lower.. If that's even possible.
 
N

NorCal

Guest
When Cal, and Dev brought up making a classic shard. You and others could of been playing and posted here on the boards. Posted something like Im playing and paying to support a classic shard. maybe stuck it in your signature box.
But like you said but why should I or others who pay for you to get a classic shard that we dont support, and never will play on? When you or others won't.
ROFL... You just don't get it do you. I did re-activate my account when I heard about the possibility of a classic shard here on Stratics in May and even upgraded to SA. I voiced my opinion in almost all the classic shard threads. I stopped my sub in December, when I figured no classic option would happen. What did my support get me? Nothing, but it did put a few bucks in EA's pockets. I realized that there was no way for the Devs to know why I re-subscribed other then to read Stratics.

I'll give you another example of how subs can be misleading. In 1999 I cancelled my account because I was playing UO way too much, this was before Trammel when PKs were a problem, but that isn't why I cancelled. I got an F, D, and a couple Cs in one semester and needed to focus on studies. I didn't re-activate until after UO:R when my grades improved. Just going by my subs one could conclude that I quit because of PKs and re-activated because of Trammel, but that just wasn't the case.

My money obviously didn't go to a classic shard. You fail to realize that you already have what you want and that I'm not interested in paying for you to get more pixel crack. You never paid to subsidize a classic shard because it never happened. Your claim is so ridiculous I don't even know how else to explain it to you.

Anyways, I support Cal's reasons for not going forward with a classic shard. It was a business decision.

Good luck UO. This is my last post. I have no hard feelings and hope it lasts for years to come for those that still enjoy it.
 

bobmac

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Because those "smart" franchises didn't exist when UO rolled out, and they had no idea how things would turn out, or that UO would even last past a year.
Yes because UO didnt make it a year before trammel.......

or

Basically my point that UO lead and then became the follower. And now they wonder why people go to games that do what it does only better and prettier.

hense why their not the "smarter"
 

Nexus

Site Support
Administrator
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UNLEASHED
Yes because UO didnt make it a year before trammel.......

or

Basically my point that UO lead and then became the follower. And now they wonder why people go to games that do what it does only better and prettier.

hense why their not the "smarter"
You know there is good and bad with being "Innovative" there really is. UO when it came out was innovative, and for a while it did really well. Unfortunately like I said there is a bad side to being innovative, once you do something and it turns out to be a success, as sure as the sky is blue 50 people are going to go about trying to do it better. You know what some of them will. Nothing stays cutting edge forever, and unfortunately all those that come after you will be looking at what you did right and wrong and trying to improve on those areas.
 
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Rudyom

Guest
I would find it extremely disappointing if constant reviews of threads and fansites led to a conclusion that a 'classic shard' was about a checklist.

No doubt a number of people would see it that way. However, in reality the debate about a 'classic shard' was more about altering the game to resurrect earlier or long gone principles.

You do not so much need a 'classic shard' in the sense that the game is exactly as it was in 1998-1999. You need a game which harks back to some of the earlier principles of UO:
- Remove insurance (if you die, you should lose items, you should have to source replacement equipment, you should have a role to play in a broader game world economy);
- Remove complicated percentage based gameplay (the properties on magical items are complicated);
- Increase the risks associated with playing amongst other people (this does not mean necessarily allowing player killing, give thieves a role where they can actually steal from other players and become attackable);
- Fix cosmetic issues (alter the game colour scheme so it is more realistic and immersive, reduce the cartoon like appearance and neon colours).

I readily admit that I am disappointed by the decision not to pursue a 'classic shard'. I would love to revist the UO that first captivated me during my teenage years. I appreciate that time moves on and things change. I played that game, loved that game and have never found another to match it. I accept that UO is truly dead.

However, that does not mean that one cannot look to shape the future of the current game so that it features some of those immersive, interactive and engaging aspects of the past. It's a delicate balancing act. If all the debate about a 'classic shards' tells you one thing alone, it should be that the game in its current state does not strike the right balance between safety and risk.

If UO fails to bring back some of those elements it will simply continue mimicking its competitors (World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online).
 
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Rudyom

Guest
I personally would like to thank Morgana. I have lurked and read numerous posts she has made over a long period of time in relation to a 'classic shard'. She has been comprehensive, articulate and open to the suggestions of others. She has encouraged genuine debate about something which, like it or hate it, is highly topical.

Developers involved with any game should be thankful to have someone who is so interested and passionate about their product.

Thank you Morgana.
 

bobmac

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Honestly If you keep telling the same thing does it finally become truth?



Uo was supposed to be a sandbox game with people who decided the outcome. Then we had certain people who cried on boards instead of playing get it turned to a theme park where everyones a winner.

This is the reason why UO became what it was and the others passed it by.
 

Aurelius

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
We are going to do our best to bring the spirit of what the community has been asking for back.
Nice - but how? And what, precisely, do you think has been asked for?

As you mention, it was all new back then .... we didn't know the map, the creatures, the tricks about how to optimise things, the people we were playing with (or against). A big part of what made the initial 'community' was all being, more or less, in the same amount of dark about what was happening, and learning all sorts of stuff as a community.

Where we are now, I can't see how you plan to bring that back. The old routines of 'bigger monsters' and puzzles to keep people thinking hit the brick walls of the sampires and other seriously optimised templates, and the availability of the internet where people on forums, fansites and guild sites study and analyse the puzzles and publish how they are solved. Neither of those are 'bad' things, they are just how it works - the main motivation behind many of the forums was exactly that 'community' idea and the fun of sharing information to help other players.

I've usually found that the 'community' kicks into a much higher gear to share the info when a serious new change hits the game, be it AoS, SE, SA, HS ... a huge rush of people explore it all, often in teams, and share what they find. Then it goes a bit quieter, until another big change. We're at a strange balance point though - the gradual changes to UO have both kept many involved, and alienated many who have left.

What, exactly, is being proposed to bring back 'community' - more big and fundamental changes to the game, so we need to relearn things? Big revamps to skills, or equipment? Or ... what? A new map, tweaking a couple of skills and throwing in a few new creatures keeps showing that, although interesting for a few weeks or months, the impact on 'community' is fleeting and fairly superficial.

Without detail, "bring the spirit of what the community has been asking for back" means anything anyone wants it to mean. What we want to know really is - what do YOU think it means, since you are the one calling the shots on what we get.
 
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Lord Patapon

Guest
Amen.

This game has been dead to me for years. This was the last string that kept me dangling and continuing to pay for my account.
Same here. I've been waiting a year and even more to get this answer... and it's not even a final answer. Except that, knowing EA, I know what not right now means.
It means in 3 or 4 years (if the game is still around) or never.

Well, UO has been a powerful story, but for me it's over, too.
The accounts were closed a few months ago, my houses dropped, and the last chance to ever play UO on an official server again are now close to zero. (point is, I won't play free shards either for a lot of reasons, but oh well...)

Oh, and I don't get the "checklist" thing, too.
Really, all that was asked was an old concept that you guys let down with AOS: no numbers everywhere, simple gameplay, useful crafting and crafters (who didn't have to be monster killers to get rare resources... a full plate is a full plate, and that's it), less item centered game.

The only difficult point is wether to include Tram or not. Most pre-AoS stuff is acceptable for the majority of the classic lovers, except Tram, even though some Tram players would like to play pre-AoS too on a Tram ruleset.

Oh well...

Enjoy the item mall and the numbers.

Bye, UO.

...
 

hawkeye_pike

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As you mention, it was all new back then .... we didn't know the map, the creatures, the tricks about how to optimise things, the people we were playing with (or against). A big part of what made the initial 'community' was all being, more or less, in the same amount of dark about what was happening, and learning all sorts of stuff as a community.
I absolutely agree here. What made the game exciting was its newness and complexity that was hard to comprehend for the standard player.

But what prevents us from having the same experience today? Obviously, what we all miss is a big community, a tight community, one with most different aspects and opinions. One that is not just based on tweaking their uber templates and getting the newest nifty item. But how do you get that?

Obviously by making the game attractive to a large number of players who know nothing about UO yet. To them, the game will be as challenging and new as it was to us back in 1998. But in order to achieve that, the game would have to run through a number of changes, or no gamer will touch UO with a 10-foot-pole, and all there's left is us oversaturated bored veterans who already know it all.
 

Prime.

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't think you are going to take too much flaming and forking for the annoncement. Most of us Classic UO fans are a lot more reasonable than some of the anti-Classic posters here make us out to be.

In the end, it is a business decision...period. I don't think too many of us are going to take it personally.



I think this is a bit of a dodge on your part Cal. Most of the Classic Shard supporters (at least the ones that posted about it) out there pretty much agreed on a ruleset and it was stickied here for a long time.

You will never please EVERYONE...it is impossible, but this decision isn't about pleasing everyone...




THAT is what it is really about.

I, for one, am really glad that you finally put the issue to bed once and for all. For some of us, it is the end of our time in Ultima Online. For others, it is confirmation that the things they enjoy in the game are going to be continued.

It was indeed a business decision, and that decision...quite simply...is that EA/Mythic does not want, nor need, the business of Classic UO fans.

My accounts were already closed, as I anticipated this decision. That money will go to other pursuits.

But in the end, it is really good to know where EA/Mythic stands, and where the remaining Classic UO fans rate on their list of business priorities.
Sorry to see you go Morgana, I know how much a Classic shard would've meant to you, however, I'm not surprised in their decision.

When it all comes down to it, I think EA making a classic shard would just prove to themselves that they really ****ed this great game up.

I just went down to 2 out of my 7 accounts.... This video better be at least half way decent because it's do or die for me and a group of others now as well.
 
K

kennykilleduo

Guest
Sadly it was my glimmer of hope to enjoy what brought me to this game a long time ago.

Sadly the ones who currently play this game have so much influence , when theres so many other player who would return just for a shot at the old day's ( if you don't or can't see that , then you don't really care about the game.) We can't even get past server consolidation??

Cal I ask you one thing , For a classic server , how hard would it to be to remove insurance and block off every land ( no access to lands , no items)except Fel and tramm ?

Thank you
 
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