Vending machine artifacts... What next?

[kelmo]

I do not believe VvV artifacts will ever be reintroduced to Siege. Kyronix posted this on Uhall today:

The consensus at the time of initial development for VvV was that the Siege community did not want the VvV artifacts on Siege. We look forward to continued to discussion on this topic. Feel free to send us any feedback to [email protected]

But if...What if those artifacts were reintroduced to Siege then what? I know it is not too difficult to earn and spend silver points. I have a chest full of VvV potions and other junk. Cannon turrets... Man those are useless. I have several though.

Anyway, if cheap and plentiful artifacts are reintroduced... Ya think recall might be fair for those that do not wish to participate in PvP? There will be a whole crew of "blood thirsty anarchists" (feel free to use that as a guild name) with decent gear, practiced skills and great internet connections and speed of light reactions. *coughs*

Recall would kind of balance the influx of relatively cheap and always available equipment. Give the hunter/gatherers a chance. I would say fighting chance but everyone knows how most PKs vs PvMer goes. Not all... we have some pretty tough cookies here, but most would end in favor of the PKer.

This crew is here for the same thing the last crew was here for. We are the last bastion of looting. I do not know Mugen. I will not speak of or for them. I know three people that play there. Anyway... Looting! Yeah, with PKing and looting comes griefing and taunting. I see what these guys say in General chat. Hell, I see what they post on Stratics... This crew is the same as the last and the one before that.

All puffy chested bully and trying to sweet talk as well. I don't get it either.

The days of the dread lord are over. Do not try to re invent the past with the present of Siege. We are here and many of us have been here for awhile. What you are willing to gamble with is how we play our game. We all know (most of us) this is a game. It is our game. We have done the polls, asked the questions, made the responses and dealt with one Dev team to the next. We do not want to be your non consensual reboot.

This Dev team is very responsive to Siege issues, and I appreciate that.

I am guilty of trying to change things... Remember the Personal Bless Deed? *shudders*
Or anything blessed for that matter. Most of the players I respect here now are those that try to keep Siege more like Siege and not like your Felucca memories.

Please say no too easy.

Thank you.

 

[GarthGrey]

I'll say it, I wouldn't mind recall/sj instated here. People already abuse the free gate bug...errr..game design ship gimmick.

 

[Tyrath]

Personally from my watching PvP it really does seem to be very well balanced on Siege. What I see being cried for is not balance but a edge. I think those lightning fast reflexes are more than enough of a edge.

 

[FrejaSP]

This crew is here for the same thing the last crew was here for. We are the last bastion of looting. I do not know Mugen. I will not speak of or for them. I know three people that play there. Anyway... Looting! Yeah, with PKing and looting comes griefing and taunting. I see what these guys say in General chat. Hell, I see what they post on Stratics... This crew is the same as the last and the one before that.

I had been on Siege from the day the shard was on and we had large PK guilds in the past, who would kill and for some, loot them dry. I had been in 2 of them J-C and UDL but we had more, sometimes on same time.
It did not kill the shard, not at all, what is killing the shard is items/suits being to hard to replace.
We need help from the devs and adding this items, without owner tag, cursed instead of antique and useable of all VvV or notwill help, Maybe make them cost 1-2k silver.
Alternative, bring back Tokuno artifacts and add this extra VvV mods on all artifacts to balance thing. Give Siege fel bonus 1000+ luck and 2x resources on the whole shard.

This crew is not worse than the ones we had in the past. Looting is many times a matter of respect between the killer and the victim, that's good old PK honor. If they respect you, they will loot little, if you annoy the hell out of them, they will dry loot and res kill. It had always been that way and it is ok on Siege.

e days of the dread lord are over. Do not try to re invent the past with the present of Siege. We are here and many of us have been here for awhile. What you are willing to gamble with is how we play our game. We all know (most of us) this is a game. It is our game. We have done the polls, asked the questions, made the responses and dealt with one Dev team to the next. We do not want to be your non consensual reboot.

I was scared of this VvV artifacts and was very vocal against them but I miss the spice on Siege, I always loved to interact with this guilds and never know when you got interrupted. I understand not all like spice on Siege, that will interrupt their hunts, raid their hunts and events, but it is Siege and should be Siege.

Or anything blessed for that matter. Most of the players I respect here now are those that try to keep Siege more like Siege and not like your Felucca memories.

Siege was dying when you started, first AoS and then Farties killed it. I see this old players come back, blue as well as red, but if they love PvP, they do not stay because there are no action left.
I want my Siege back, the Siege I enjoyed. Bring the fun and action back, fix our Item problem so blue guilds again will fight back in stead of stealth around in fair for losing their items.

One of my members run into Zora, he was excited, he tried to get away and almost did but died and lost a Tina Tink mage suit. No one of us like getting looted but the aralien rush you get trying to get away or fight to kill the attacked. You can't get that when attacked of a nice PK/VvV you know may loot you.

Lets get our old PvP'ers back, blue as well as red and orange.

I agree with letting us get recall on Siege

 

[Eärendil]

I do not believe VvV artifacts will ever be reintroduced to Siege. Kyronix posted this on Uhall today:



But if...What if those artifacts were reintroduced to Siege then what? I know it is not too difficult to earn and spend silver points. I have a chest full of VvV potions and other junk. Cannon turrets... Man those are useless. I have several though.

Anyway, if cheap and plentiful artifacts are reintroduced... Ya think recall might be fair for those that do not wish to participate in PvP? There will be a whole crew of "blood thirsty anarchists" (feel free to use that as a guild name) with decent gear, practiced skills and great internet connections and speed of light reactions. *coughs*

Recall would kind of balance the influx of relatively cheap and always available equipment. Give the hunter/gatherers a chance. I would say fighting chance but everyone knows how most PKs vs PvMer goes. Not all... we have some pretty tough cookies here, but most would end in favor of the PKer.

This crew is here for the same thing the last crew was here for. We are the last bastion of looting. I do not know Mugen. I will not speak of or for them. I know three people that play there. Anyway... Looting! Yeah, with PKing and looting comes griefing and taunting. I see what these guys say in General chat. Hell, I see what they post on Stratics... This crew is the same as the last and the one before that.

All puffy chested bully and trying to sweet talk as well. I don't get it either.

The days of the dread lord are over. Do not try to re invent the past with the present of Siege. We are here and many of us have been here for awhile. What you are willing to gamble with is how we play our game. We all know (most of us) this is a game. It is our game. We have done the polls, asked the questions, made the responses and dealt with one Dev team to the next. We do not want to be your non consensual reboot.

This Dev team is very responsive to Siege issues, and I appreciate that.

I am guilty of trying to change things... Remember the Personal Bless Deed? *shudders*
Or anything blessed for that matter. Most of the players I respect here now are those that try to keep Siege more like Siege and not like your Felucca memories.

Please say no too easy.

Thank you.

If that happens, Kelmo, I will stay in stealth 24/7 and switch my playstyle 100% to GIL-procedures.

 

[FrejaSP]

Anyway, if cheap and plentiful artifacts are reintroduced... Ya think recall might be fair for those that do not wish to participate in PvP? There will be a whole crew of "blood thirsty anarchists" (feel free to use that as a guild name) with decent gear, practiced skills and great internet connections and speed of light reactions. *coughs*

Sounds like a challenge, maybe more would play Siege.
Looting is not all bad.
It give people a reason to farm, as there will be buyers for leather, ingots, artifacts, talies and imbuing resources
It give the crafters a reason to play as there will be buyers for suits and jewelry. Now get rid of Siege Bless and crafters will be able to sell weapon too.
More PvP and PK action will also give more demand for potions, bandages etc used in a fight.

Only thing importen is, all should be able to use this VvV artifects. If we make normal artifacts with same name get the extra mods too and make player using the VvV one orange just like ehen attacking VvV or staying to long in battle town, most blue will still want the non VvV ones. Also Silver price need to be balanced.

This VvV items have around 60 resist, that mean they are easy to put together to a all 70 suit. If we just could get 15+ basis resist on magic loot and crafted stuff and this extra mods on old artifacts together with permenent Tokuno artifact drop and Fel bonus on all facets, it would be so much easier to put all 70 suit together.

When we start to get more of them in game, we will see more of them on vendors too.

Now get rid of Vendor fee on Siege, also for community and stall vendors or lower it to 1%

 

[Aroz]

Kelmo, taking many Law classes and classes geared towards making a good argument your WHOLE argument is invalid and holds no merit because you are using a slippery slope argument.

Slippery slope - an idea or course of action which will lead to something unacceptable, wrong, or disastrous.

Slippery slope arguments hold absolutely no merit in any intellectual argument or position because slippery slope arguments are always a fallacy.

Fallacy - a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound argument.

Slippery slope arguments have been used to argue against equal rights for gay marriage, equal rights for colored people, AND women voting rights.

1. If gay people are allowed to marry then GOD will punish us and there will be people marrying their dogs. - Slippery slope + invalid.
2. If Muslims are treated equal and all not treated like ISIS members then ISIS will take over America. - Slippery slope + Invalid
3. If women vote then the United States will fall to the ground. - Slippery slope + Invalid.
4. If artifacts are given as a result from VvV (which anyone can participate and acquire as well and cannot be insured) then all hell will break open on Siege and every single rule will change - Slippery slope + Invalid.

If you want to argue intelligently please don't use any fallacies. I didn't even bother reading your whole post because of the title. Please come up with a different argument that isn't a fallacy for your position. You want to keep Siege dead and silent and say the "old days" are impossible but yet here is HI-5 bringing 12 people to this shard and asking them to add in VvV artifacts for more people from PRODO to have incentive to play here and build suits but yet "the olden age will never be revived" because you do not want it to be and will vote in anything to prevent it.

Insanity- doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Siege has been following the same new rules for a long time and it has been a dying shard. Why continue the path and expect it to be revived? Change some stuff and expect different results that include the possibility of people coming and playing.

*High Five*

 

[Aroz]

Also, Kelmo, you remind me of Old Man Warner from The Lottery by Shirley Jackson. It's a quite popular story anyone should be acquainted with and if you are not here is a brief summary.
Long story short the village has a ritual which is called "the lottery" and whoever wins this lottery gets stoned to death in hope of good harvest. Even the children and the family of the person selected take part on stoning them to death.

This is the scene Kelmo reminds me of Old Man Warner:

In the crowd, Mr. Adams turns to Old Man Warner and says that apparently the north village is considering giving up the lottery. Old Man Warner snorts and dismisses this as foolish. He says that next the young folks will want everyone to live in caves or nobody to work. He references the old saying, “lottery in June, corn be heavy soon.” He reminds Mr. Adams that there has always been a lottery, and that it’s bad enough to see Mr. Summers leading the proceedings while joking with everybody. Mrs. Adams intercedes with the information that some places have already stopped the lotteries. Old Man Warner feels there’s “nothing but trouble in that.”

Changes happen. Don't keep living in a certain lifestyle.

World is a conquer or be conquered world and you are losing. Choose yourself a place upon the food chain Old Man Warner Kelmo.

 

[Eärendil]

Show respect to the age, young man! I love Kelmo!

Disclaimer: This post is not related to any PVP-issues.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Kelmo makes very good points why adding the artifacts would/could be a negative and its clear the manner in which they were adding in the past was not received well and thus with the introduction of VvV were left out.

Aroz makes good points on how adding them would be helpful.

Freja along with a few others have commented on how the Dev team could add them to Siege to prevent an imbalance between the PvPers and the non Pvpers.

I agree they can be introduced and enhance the Siege Playing experience but they would have to be adapted for Siege (as most have said already)

1) Usable by everyone
2) Antique and Cursed (Rather then character bound)
3) The Cost of Silver should be high. 5k for the low end items up to 10k for the top tier items. This puts getting the artifacts much more difficult and requires actually investment to obtain the items.

In addition, VvV system needs a simple tweek to encourage players to stop other players from acquiring silver and at the same time be rewarded for doing so. A character when they die in VvV should lose half their silver and the killing player(s) share half the silver loss (A Quarter of the Victims Silver). The killer gaining half and the other half being split among the people who had an assist. (There is always a net loss of 1 quarter the total silver so you can not increase your own silver totals with multiple accounts)

Right now a naked thief can make as much silver as needed without consequence. Kill them and they retain the silver they made and they don't need any items to continue to work as they have. Preventing them from acquiring silver has no benefit and stopping them has no consequence which would allow easy farming for anyone interesting in acquiring the items even at higher cost.

All this is secondary the points Freja makes about increase drop rates for resources, double luck bonus in Fel, etc which would be the most effective change for Siege. If the Dev team could take a week, look at current state and look at both aspects that would be great.

Add to the list of allowing recall/sacred journey spells but make the casting time and mana requirements the same as gate and add the stipulation that Protection does not prevent interruption. This keeps with the ideals of Siege but allows characters some flexibility and a means to travel without magery.

-Lore

 

[Max Blackoak]

India rejected the Industrial Revolution and stuck to their culture and values. Other places that accepted the Industrial Revolution are 1st world countries on top of the food chain.

you might wanna check your interpretation of history concerning India and their "choice" to reject the Industrial Revolution... I mean seriously if you're gonna bring history into this at least make sure you get the facts right...

 

[Eärendil]

Colonialism is a complex story, indeed - with ALOT of problematic consequences we are facing today.

 

[FrejaSP]

Welcome back my favorit True Virtue Knight

3) The Cost of Silver should be high. 5k for the low end items up to 10k for the top tier items. This puts getting the artifacts much more difficult and requires actually investment to obtain the items.

I believe this may be a little to high, special if made harder to abuse the system.

In addition, VvV system needs a simple tweek to encourage players to stop other players from acquiring silver and at the same time be rewarded for doing so. A character when they die in VvV should lose half their silver and the killing player(s) share half the silver loss (A Quarter of the Victims Silver). The killer gaining half and the other half being split among the people who had an assist. (There is always a net loss of 1 quarter the total silver so you can not increase your own silver totals with multiple accounts)

Half of the silver for dying is really nasty, special for young PvP'ers who die a lot. Also I don't like this heavy gain of silver from killing others as it will remove the fun from lesser PvP'ers. I understand the abuse of the system need to be stopped, but it will end up hurting more than it will help. You should max could lose half of the silver gained in current town.

 

[Tyrath]

Hell if we are going to make Siege prodo, I may as well go back to playing prodo.

 

[FrejaSP]

Hell if we are going to make Siege prodo, I may as well go back to playing prodo.

Really? Goodbye
That a useless argument that make no sense.

 

[Max Blackoak]

it is not actually. Siege is different. Let's keep it different. I am not saying that introducing VvV artifacts is wrong or right, but we should really carefully consider whether introducing something to Siege makes sense BEFORE we introduce it. We had so many things bleed over from prodo that simply didn't make any sense on Siege and it took forever to get them removed. So yeah, he makes a valid point that Siege should not turn into just another prodo shard. Of course the extent of the difference is up for debate...

 

[FrejaSP]

Siege is not really Siege now, I loved Siege before the item based madness killed all PvP on the shard. Lets make it Siege Perilous again, we do not need it to be a safe Trammel world.
Better access to gear can only help, you can still loot the trouble makers.
Where are all your Brigands, where is the ORC, where is UDL, where is VPN, where is J-C, where is all the PvP guilds. I want my Siege Perilous back.

 

[Max Blackoak]

you need to accept that those days are gone Freja. as you said yourself what killed the old Siege is that UO became item based with the introduction of AoS and with that all the old guilds like Orc etc. left because their playstyle simply wasn't possible anymore. This is also why I quit around the time when Mondain's Legacy was introduced (yeah, I stuck around for a while after the itemisation). On the other hand Siege is not a safe trammel world. what made it safer is simply the introduction of enormous landmasses and an already thinly spread population. What also made it safer is that we have instanced encounters where it becomes very hard to kill someone (encounters that require farming for keys, instanced encounters like shadowguard etc.).
Having VvV artifacts on Siege or not having them has little to do with "the old Siege" but it has a lot to do with balancing issues. Hence all the discussions.

 

[FrejaSP]

you need to accept that those days are gone Freja. as you said yourself what killed the old Siege is that UO became item based with the introduction of AoS and with that all the old guilds like Orc etc. left because their playstyle simply wasn't possible anymore.. This is also why I quit around the time when Mondain's Legacy was introduced (yeah, I stuck around for a while after the itemisation).

I do not accept that, it's about time we fix this item problen we have on Siege. Items are balanced for Prodo Item Insurance.

On the other hand Siege is not a safe trammel world. what made it safer is simply the introduction of enormous landmasses and an already thinly spread population.

If we was more players, that would not be as big a problem as it is now.

What also made it safer is that we have instanced encounters where it becomes very hard to kill someone (encounters that require farming for keys, instanced encounters like shadowguard etc.).

I agree, they are bad and should never had been instanced here

Having VvV artifacts on Siege or not having them has little to do with "the old Siege" but it has a lot to do with balancing issues. Hence all the discussions.

Not really, in old days, you could PvP in a GM made suit and weapon, it took my crafter very little time to stock vendor and a suit did only cost 1-3k. If we could get price for a Tina Tink suit to only cost around 50k it would help a lot. +15% basis resist on magic loot and crafted items would help a lot as Gems are expensive, it would also make it take less time to make the suit.
Also more looted items would be worth enhange with colored leather or ingots and would be easier to put together to a suit.
Fel bonus, +1000 luck and 2x resources would help too and give a better drop.
Adding the extra VvV mods to normal Artifacts would make them more useful in a suit

However I do believe we should have the VvV items too and I believe it would make Siege a lot more fun, also for the ones who fear changes.

Lets us test it for 3 months, add the VvV items, give them a life spawn of 3 month, so they will poof unless the system is made perm, then we can see if it seem to be positive or negative.

 

[kelmo]

Really? Goodbye
That a useless argument that make no sense.

It makes sense to me.

 

[kelmo]

Siege is not really Siege now, I loved Siege before the item based madness killed all PvP on the shard. Lets make it Siege Perilous again, we do not need it to be a safe Trammel world.
Better access to gear can only help, you can still loot the trouble makers.
Where are all your Brigands, where is the ORC, where is UDL, where is VPN, where is J-C, where is all the PvP guilds. I want my Siege Perilous back.

It is gone. Never to return, so many changes have insured that. Let it go.

 

[FrejaSP]

It is gone. Never to return, so many changes have insured that. Let it go.

Never say never and Insurence do not belong here, how is it you use to say? Trammel ------------>

 

[Uvtha]

I had been on Siege from the day the shard was on and we had large PK guilds in the past, who would kill and for some, loot them dry. I had been in 2 of them J-C and UDL but we had more, sometimes on same time.
It did not kill the shard, not at all, what is killing the shard is items/suits being to hard to replace.
We need help from the devs and adding this items, without owner tag, cursed instead of antique and useable of all VvV or notwill help, Maybe make them cost 1-2k silver.
Alternative, bring back Tokuno artifacts and add this extra VvV mods on all artifacts to balance thing. Give Siege fel bonus 1000+ luck and 2x resources on the whole shard.

This crew is not worse than the ones we had in the past. Looting is many times a matter of respect between the killer and the victim, that's good old PK honor. If they respect you, they will loot little, if you annoy the hell out of them, they will dry loot and res kill. It had always been that way and it is ok on Siege.



I was scared of this VvV artifacts and was very vocal against them but I miss the spice on Siege, I always loved to interact with this guilds and never know when you got interrupted. I understand not all like spice on Siege, that will interrupt their hunts, raid their hunts and events, but it is Siege and should be Siege.


Siege was dying when you started, first AoS and then Farties killed it. I see this old players come back, blue as well as red, but if they love PvP, they do not stay because there are no action left.
I want my Siege back, the Siege I enjoyed. Bring the fun and action back, fix our Item problem so blue guilds again will fight back in stead of stealth around in fair for losing their items.

One of my members run into Zora, he was excited, he tried to get away and almost did but died and lost a Tina Tink mage suit. No one of us like getting looted but the aralien rush you get trying to get away or fight to kill the attacked. You can't get that when attacked of a nice PK/VvV you know may loot you.

Lets get our old PvP'ers back, blue as well as red and orange.

I agree with letting us get recall on Siege

How much you wanna bet the number of people pvping wouldn't change?

 

[FrejaSP]

How much you wanna bet the number of people pvping wouldn't change?

I do not bet, but It will changes. I can't say, we won't lose a few but there are still lots of land and instances so should not be that hard to survive for PvM'ers and we will get alot more PvP'ers.
I don't think we will see a lot more reds, special not if enough orange to fight.

Lets test it for 3 months.

 

[Uvtha]

I do not accept that, it's about time we fix this item problen we have on Siege. Items are balanced for Prodo Item Insurance.

VvV arties will not fix that problem. That problem will never be fixed.

 

[Uvtha]

I do not bet, but It will changes. I can't say, we won't lose a few but there are still lots of land and instances so should not be that hard to survive for PvM'ers and we will get alot more PvP'ers.
I don't think we will see a lot more reds, special not if enough orange to fight.

Lets test it for 3 months.

Nothing will change, there will be no significant new pvp action, and the few that do come WILL be red, and WILL be pking people in VvV arties. I would bet every item I own on that.

People don't come to siege to VvV. They come to loot. They may play VvV, but only because it's a good place to loot. They come to pk, and loot. That is the reason to pvp on siege rather than a prodo shard where the game is actually designed to work.

I am fine with VvV arties with some changes (like untagged and cursed) but only because I know we won't ever get dev time to fix **** properly, and it IS hard to gear, especially when you die a lot like pvpers tend to. This is simply a utilitarian change for those who do choose to pk/pvp here, not some herald of a new pvping age.

 

[FrejaSP]

I believe you are wrong, but only one way to find out, lets try it.
Why would they PK blue to get the artifacts, they are very hard to find, much easier to kill other VvV including me in VvV towns.
There are a lot disadvantage from being red, much easier to be orange.

 

[Uvtha]

I believe you are wrong, but only one way to find out, lets try it.
Why would they PK blue to get the artifacts, they are very hard to find, much easier to kill other VvV including me in VvV towns.
There are a lot disadvantage from being red, much easier to be orange.

They will pk anyone and everyone to get loot. That is why they are here. They don't care about the disadvantages of being red, because they have blue alts. This is how this shard has worked forever, man.

 

[FrejaSP]

They will pk anyone and everyone to get loot. That is why they are here. They don't care about the disadvantages of being red, because they have blue alts. This is how this shard has worked forever, man.

That's ok with me, I never had problems with that.

 

[Max Blackoak]

Noone in their right mind would go red in today's UO and thanks to pardons nobody has to! With today's system being red is the most stupid thing one could do. Yes I am calling myself stupid here. Being a red I can't use any of the virtues which drastically limits my ability to PvM as a red (I can't honor bosses for added damage and increased luck, I can't selfres if I die, I can't res people with 80% health, etc. etc. I can't even start a spawn!)
I agree with you Freja in that droprates should be increased, fel luck bonus should be applied shard wide, maybe resists should get an extra bump etc. to make items more affordable. I am not sure that VvV artifacts have to be a part of this.

 

[Uvtha]

That's ok with me, I never had problems with that.

Neither have I, but you are the one acting like VvV is going to satisfy these players, and that they won't be out pking with VvV items. It won't, they will.

 

[Uvtha]

I am not sure that VvV artifacts have to be a part of this.

Ideally they wouldn't be, but we sadly won't ever get the dev attention required to do even the simple list you mention.

The only changes we can get are ones that literally take under 30 minutes to implement.

 

[kelmo]

I was being sarcastic about wanting recall... *shakes head*

 

[Drakelord]

No recalling, no VvV items. That is my vote.

Once upon a time; Of course I love to be able to recall away from a dangerous situation, but the risk of being a Siege players would no longer be there, you might as well create Trammel and lets us all place Castles there. I love to have all the Stuff I have on my Prod shard characters, I would be a God on Siege till I met another would be God who was faster, (connection) or cheated with a speed hack, then there would go all my godly armor and weapons. Thus ends that fairy tale.

I want a fair fight when I am on my archer during the VvV. Using weapons crafters made, wearing armor crafters made. Not GOD like VvV items that come out of ceral boxes. Now if they let Crafters make such items here then I be all for that, as I could make that helm I lost in VvV, when it was looted off my body etc.. But to give away for just being in the city during the VvV again I vote NO NO NO. It is not fair to those that have crafters here, people for years that worked skills to make items for all of Siege.

 

[Aroz]

So the main argument is Siege is dead, let's not try to do anything because it will never have a good population ?

Also be careful when asking ea or whoever codes the updates to do complicated stuff. They can't even add horses into the vvv system correctly. Remember how bad that was ?

 

[Critical Gaming]

Drakelord again portraying them as GODLY items.

*chuckles*

 

[Uvtha]

So the main argument is Siege is dead, let's not try to do anything because it will never have a good population ?

Also be careful when asking ea or whoever codes the updates to do complicated stuff. They can't even add horses into the vvv system correctly. Remember how bad that was ?

As I have said before the notion that some tweak will somehow result in us having a good population again is simply fantasy. Any improvements should just to improve stuff for those who already play siege. VvV arties fine, but it's not going to effect the shard population.

 

[kelmo]

No. Siege is growing. Do not stifle it with changes for a very small minority.

 

[FrejaSP]

It will improve it for me and many others who play Siege

 

[Aroz]

As I have said before the notion that some tweak will somehow result in us having a good population again is simply fantasy. Any improvements should just to improve stuff for those who already play siege. VvV arties fine, but it's not going to effect the shard population.

You might be wrong. I have my guild suiting up across every shard. It's easier when you can insure stuff but you can make a quick mystic mage suit with the 2000 points you start with : crimson, folded steel, crystalline, orny. On Prodo you can insure all of these and be set up with a few more pieces.

However, on Siege if they want to implement this; you will not be able to insure them and will lose them no matter what in death. If they stay character bound you can loot them, trash them, and then people are forced to farm VvV again and more fights happen

 

[Feanaro]

No. Siege is growing. Do not stifle it with changes for a very small minority.

Thats exactly what the focus group did, changed the game for a minority, because of a minority.

 

[Feanaro]

Any improvements should just to improve stuff for those who already play siege.

Uh, thats what we are trying to do. Reward players who participate in the VvV system.

 

[FrejaSP]

However, on Siege if they want to implement this; you will not be able to insure them and will lose them no matter what in death. If they stay character bound you can loot them, trash them, and then people are forced to farm VvV again and more fights happen

We tried char bond with the Fartis, the sell back was a pain, much better if all can use them IMO

 

[Aroz]

No. Siege is growing. Do not stifle it with changes for a very small minority.

I'm the only one who has brought players to Siege and while I am bringing 12 people I have the main guild GIL/JIL refusing to deal at all with HI5 because they want to get 12 people off the shard. You tell me where the problem is. You don't have a solution, you're part of the problem.

 

[kelmo]

I'm the only one who has brought players to Siege...

*laughs* OK, I am done. *shakes head*

 

[TheDrAJ]

After reading all these posts - I gotta go with the no change no VvV arties people

 

[805connection]

VVV items break much faster than old faction arties. So if you do manage to use them for pvm as I said before, they’ll be broken within 20 minutes. ALL OF them

So now you ceate repair deeds for your items. At 100 points a pop! Boom now you have just established a consumable market. Allowing more participation in VVV.

The only reason you are able to obtain VVV points is because the Lack of participants in VVV at the time, you can also Leave VVV and join anytime you please.



So if you do decide to do VVV you can put on your tag, grab your arties and PVP, then after you are done pvping you may leave and go back to PVM.



For PVM you need Luck and VVV offers no Luck at all(

Putting VVV items back into Siege doesn’t make this a Prodo Server, a Prodo server has Trammel. A Prodo server has tons and tons of duped items that has destroyed the economy. The only pure thing left on Prodo is pretty much VVV which is only use to enhance pvp.

You have removed the Hero/Evil system (which was one of my sole reasons for playing siege).

Specifically, there should not even be a debate on this. You have removed the heart of siege. A Pvp Lootable server, that is more difficult. And If you played from the beginning you would have a general idea of what I’m talking about.

What is stupid about siege is you allow looting on an item based server. (that is fine) but for the most pvpers they do not want to sit there and farm nonstop especially the ones who die every day.



When the sever came out we didn’t have this issue because a barbed runic armor was middle tier pvp. So people were not at such a huge disadvantage especially the less skilled or the smaller guilds who get ganked from the larger ones.

VVV items are nice but with the enhancement of Dungeon Loot, they are the equivalent of a barbed runic suit years ago. These items have been out for 10 years now, and as we said before there are items that are obtained much more beneficial to the server.

There is no argument you can make other than the fact we don’t want people pvping on siege, that will make any sense. This is something that Siege needs and as a result I have not found someone to pvp against in 2 weeks of playing

 

[Uvtha]

Uh, thats what we are trying to do. Reward players who participate in the VvV system.

And I'm fine with that. People are just trying to argue it's going to make a big impact on the population, but it won't. We should just stop worrying about the population.

 

[805connection]

And I'm fine with that. People are just trying to argue it's going to make a big impact on the population, but it won't. We should just stop worrying about the population.

With hi5 here who is a pretty popular pvp guild on prodo a lot of people enjoy playing vs us and might come back to siege to pvp.. Especially the ones who have already finished chars, and now can help their new guild members gear up.
that is what we are anticipating.

I'm thinking we can get maybe 4 or 5 pvp guilds the size of hi5 here and this economy would just take off

 

[Uvtha]

You might be wrong. I have my guild suiting up across every shard. It's easier when you can insure stuff but you can make a quick mystic mage suit with the 2000 points you start with : crimson, folded steel, crystalline, orny. On Prodo you can insure all of these and be set up with a few more pieces.

However, on Siege if they want to implement this; you will not be able to insure them and will lose them no matter what in death. If they stay character bound you can loot them, trash them, and then people are forced to farm VvV again and more fights happen

Just like how the extra house was gonna cause a popuation boom... Some peeps may show up, but it won't be major.

I just don't understand why you don't set up an imbuer for your prodo friends, and supply them that way, especially since you have argued that it's basically the same result. If they really wanted to play here I have a very hard time seeing the lack of VvV items being the barrier they simply cannot cross, especially when a basically as good option is available and much more accessible.

If VvV arties are the real issue, I just see people logging back into atlantic the day they lose thier VvV suits. If they won't pvp without them now, why would they be ok with farming to get a new set after the initial "free" set was trashed by some tamer?