It's not in scaling the window that I found the most difference. Perhaps it's my imagination? I could swear I found it easier to pick items up, drag them and drop them cleanly and scroll through my backpack.
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Great update!
I especially enjoy the Distillery plans
The general roleplay and player interaction is what kept - and keeps - me in UO for the past 11 years, not "leet" graphics or hack-n-slash.
I am already planning remodels to houses now - make WoA the distillery for "Rat Gut Whisky" and turn my wee Luna shop into a speakeasy
Looks like sugar and hops futures will soar! Guess I better start keeping the Paragon drops again, too.
I especially enjoy the Distillery plans
The general roleplay and player interaction is what kept - and keeps - me in UO for the past 11 years, not "leet" graphics or hack-n-slash. I am already planning remodels to houses now - make WoA the distillery for "Rat Gut Whisky" and turn my wee Luna shop into a speakeasy
Looks like sugar and hops futures will soar! Guess I better start keeping the Paragon drops again, too.
So no in-game search system or anything else economically useful, just a slightly more convenient way for miners to sell ingots or whatever. Yawn.
If the number was that small they'd not spend time on it. *shrug*
I am very pleased to hear about the EC updates.
First off, let me say I love the distillery idea. It will be great for RPers and player towns.
Can you please... please... please... make it so the labeled bottles can be distinguished from the rare event bottles?
The whole smuggler hued alcohol thing was great for deco for most players, but not so much for collectors. It significantly lowered the value of most of the event alcohol, but also hurt our ability to help protect less informed members of the community from buying "fake" rares that were really smuggler alcohol. While I don't intend on selling most of my collection unless I quit, collecting those rare drinks is one of the few passions left in this game. I have several bottles that are rare, but not hued and with this new distilling system I'm really worried about those being duplicated.
Also if possible, it would be really nice if you would add a [smuggled] below each of the smuggler's alcohol to help protect people from buying them as true rares. Some of the names like "Equinox Wine" have the same name as past event items with the only difference being hue. It should be very easy to add that line to all smuggler bottles and would go a long ways to not only preserving the history of the rare versions, but protecting people from paying millions for something that is still obtainable in game.
From a 164 mo account... Thank you.
Can you please... please... please... make it so the labeled bottles can be distinguished from the rare event bottles?
The whole smuggler hued alcohol thing was great for deco for most players, but not so much for collectors. It significantly lowered the value of most of the event alcohol, but also hurt our ability to help protect less informed members of the community from buying "fake" rares that were really smuggler alcohol. While I don't intend on selling most of my collection unless I quit, collecting those rare drinks is one of the few passions left in this game. I have several bottles that are rare, but not hued and with this new distilling system I'm really worried about those being duplicated.
Also if possible, it would be really nice if you would add a [smuggled] below each of the smuggler's alcohol to help protect people from buying them as true rares. Some of the names like "Equinox Wine" have the same name as past event items with the only difference being hue. It should be very easy to add that line to all smuggler bottles and would go a long ways to not only preserving the history of the rare versions, but protecting people from paying millions for something that is still obtainable in game.
From a 164 mo account... Thank you.
lol oh wow if Cal only knew what the team will have to go through to get all this done ;PHaha!!
To Start..
To Fix..
Then This..
Followed By..
Then More..
Eventually Afterwards..
Completed By..
Avoiding This..
Leading To..
Ending With..
Get out of your house for a change and smell an F'ing joke.
EDIT:
And I agree. I keep CC for a few reasons. I don't play UO for graphics and eye candy. Who does? EC users? Cmon! If you want graphics and resolution you're going to play a different game altogether! I use the CC client because I prefer UO as close to the olden days as possible. Nostalgia. I cannot get it through EC client. I prefer to preserve UO as much as possible being the Rare Collector I am, and switching to EC just feels like I am abandoning that mindset.Storm said:
All in all, as long as CC exists, I play. I am all for others playing whatever client of their choosing as it doesn't effect me in any way, so why have a problem with it? To put it simply, I don't. Play what you will, we're all part of the same community. I just play for different reasons.
Totally out of line...Get out of your house for a change and smell an F'ing joke.
The fact that your even commenting about the work being done to the EC proves otherwise. If you were okay with people playing the EC why bother posting on the subject because all your doing is providing negative comments about something you could care less about..basically your full of BS.
While I agree the CC should always be an option for those who want the nostalgia that client can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned. The CC client is holding this game back more than anything as is it's users ..jurassic users like yourself as well as Devs who've catered to your negative feedback are just as culpable in damaging the game. If your fine with your CC client don't even bother posting your negative BS about the EC Client.
I play UO for content and I also want a game with some decent graphics. Why there are some players who think the two (Graphics +Content) are mutually exclusive is beyond me. They're dumb as rocks in my book. Looks like you made the list!
I very much look forward to the EC Client improvements...most of all the high resolution graphics. I am so sick and tired of those ugly Legacy CC graphics and I can't wait to see what they have in store.
Yep, calling people you are having a debate with names always works to convince them... or not.
I'm fairly certain everyone was a long time CC player at some point...
Looks like a few of us didn't get your "joke," dear.Get out of your house for a change and smell an F'ing joke.
Glad to see the change in attitude, backpeddle much?
There has been a long fixation with the various dev teams upon bringing out a new client. I think this stems from most of them being of a younger crowd then those who first devoleped this game way back when and this is their collective chance to make a name and place a stamp.
Sadly I still think that if we had just focused upon new content, improving the current content(like revamping the old legacy areas, making Tokuno worth hunting in, updating malas and finishing Ter Mur), fixing old long standing bugs, improving the new player interaction into the game, faction warfare and what ever else you wish to add to the list this game would have more players.
Sadly I still think that if we had just focused upon new content, improving the current content(like revamping the old legacy areas, making Tokuno worth hunting in, updating malas and finishing Ter Mur), fixing old long standing bugs, improving the new player interaction into the game, faction warfare and what ever else you wish to add to the list this game would have more players.
Let me rephrase that. I was afraid of change too, but after playing around with the EC, I really like it.
A
AesSedai
Guest
- Thanks for the update Producer. I look forward to seeing these become reality.
Aye, have not forgotten about Japan; and thx for the reminder.
Aye, have not forgotten about Japan; and thx for the reminder.
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There's a big difference in graphics preference and graphics apathy.
Too many people try to claim the latter while they actually believe the former.
Again as already posted Graphics and Gameplay are NOT mutually exclusive.
For all of the people who consistently claim that they don't care about the graphics or that "graphics don't matter" or that they "don't play for the graphics", they should have no problem with tossing out the Legacy graphics for KR or any other graphic set... because the graphics don't matter... right?
There's a big difference in graphics preference and graphics apathy.
Too many people try to claim the latter while they actually believe the former.
Again as already posted Graphics and Gameplay are NOT mutually exclusive.
I actually wonder if some complainers have bothered to play the EC for more than a few minutes. Most of the graphics in the EC are GREAT! If you've been staring at the CC's cartoonish terrain and characters for several years, OF COURSE the EC's graphics are going to be jarring, no matter HOW good they are.
And by the way folks, that's what the CC looks like after your eyes have finally adjusted to the EC--a crudely drawn, 1990s-era cartoon. I still adore it, but only for the sake of nostalgia. FYI, there is a link in my sig for anyone who wants EC to look as sharp as CC. It takes almost no effort, poses no risks, and I'm already hearing that it works great for people. You do not have to wait for the team to fix the resolution, you can do it yourself in less than five minutes.
J
Jonathan Baron
Guest
The so-called Classic Client is a bit like calling an outhouse or a chamber pot a Classic Toilet. It really has to go. So many people have "Do that and I'll quit," practically macroed. It might as well be, "Wolf!" You can't take seriously people who confuse threats with reason.
Besides, the sort of person who'd leave over that is precisely the type you want rid of. The sort who might actually give UO a try if the CC got the hook like a bad vaudeville act is likely the type of people the game needs. You can't be both welcoming and rigidly hind bound. This is a barrier to attracting new players at least as serious as the sheer complexity of this, far and away the richest online game in the world. It's also in danger of making one of those lists of Best Games You Will Never Get to Play.
The other potentially large group who'd leave are those relying on its vulnerability to gain advantage in the competitive portion of UO beyond the ruleset. PvP cheaters in other words I'm sure they'd be missed as well.
I have to give enormous credit to the development team for their extraordinary insight into exactly that segment of the game they meant to entice to drain gold from the economy. I feel a fool much of the time (largely because I often am) and never felt more so than when I dismissed the entire notion of Magincia being in any way a desirable location for much of anything. Then I heard the chatter of how much people were sinking into tickets. Nicely split between elite sites with one ticket per account, and secondary sites where folks could try to overpower the odds by dumping enormous sums into tickets, like rich people trying to buy a Senate seat in California. When I saw a winning lot on Catskills going for nearly $200 on a UO item site I knew this strategy had worked.
Fracking brilliant! Outstanding idea with splendid execution. Well done!
It's tough puzzling out gold drains without appealing to the ultimately dilatory, if not corrosive, status game in UO. Status seeking is a mask unlike an Avatar. The latter provides freedom to loosen the knots in our personalities, whereas the former allows us the illusion that we're something we're not. One accelerates the development of relationships and community. The other ******* them.
The Magincia scheme not only selects for devotees of the status game, but it sticks a great number of them off on an island by themselves, leaving the rest of us to go about our business.
As I said, an inspired stoke by any standard
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Besides, the sort of person who'd leave over that is precisely the type you want rid of. The sort who might actually give UO a try if the CC got the hook like a bad vaudeville act is likely the type of people the game needs. You can't be both welcoming and rigidly hind bound. This is a barrier to attracting new players at least as serious as the sheer complexity of this, far and away the richest online game in the world. It's also in danger of making one of those lists of Best Games You Will Never Get to Play.
The other potentially large group who'd leave are those relying on its vulnerability to gain advantage in the competitive portion of UO beyond the ruleset. PvP cheaters in other words
I'm sure they'd be missed as well.I have to give enormous credit to the development team for their extraordinary insight into exactly that segment of the game they meant to entice to drain gold from the economy. I feel a fool much of the time (largely because I often am) and never felt more so than when I dismissed the entire notion of Magincia being in any way a desirable location for much of anything. Then I heard the chatter of how much people were sinking into tickets. Nicely split between elite sites with one ticket per account, and secondary sites where folks could try to overpower the odds by dumping enormous sums into tickets, like rich people trying to buy a Senate seat in California. When I saw a winning lot on Catskills going for nearly $200 on a UO item site I knew this strategy had worked.
Fracking brilliant! Outstanding idea with splendid execution. Well done!
It's tough puzzling out gold drains without appealing to the ultimately dilatory, if not corrosive, status game in UO. Status seeking is a mask unlike an Avatar. The latter provides freedom to loosen the knots in our personalities, whereas the former allows us the illusion that we're something we're not. One accelerates the development of relationships and community. The other ******* them.
The Magincia scheme not only selects for devotees of the status game, but it sticks a great number of them off on an island by themselves, leaving the rest of us to go about our business.
As I said, an inspired stoke by any standard
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Do you really believe the UO can afford to get rid of anyone at this point? If so then all I can say is that you haven't considered this as thoroughly as you present in what seems like a thoughtful enough post.
And it is just 'Wolf'! Last time I tried EC I was unable to treasure hunt using it due to issue with the map. The same is true for the CC but with CC there is a third party program which fills the gap. This is one of a very few primary game activities for me. Dismissing the shortcomings of the EC is very short sighted in my view.
I am sorry that you think only PvP cheaters use the CC. I can assure you there are many people that never PvP that use the CC exclusively. I don't think we can afford to add any more negatives to their gameplay that might effect their decisions to stay or leave.
Besides, the development team has stated that they don't share your views and will continue to support CC. So all this bloviating about getting rid of the CC is just so much nonsense.
People who believe others "cheat" in PvP are the types of people I would like to be rid of.The other potentially large group who'd leave are those relying on its vulnerability to gain advantage in the competitive portion of UO beyond the ruleset. PvP cheaters in other words
W
Woodsman
Guest
If it wasn't against the Stratics TOS, I'd point out the numerous scripts that have been designed to help people cheat in PvP.
...
People cheat in PvP... not all PvPers cheat, but that is where cheating tends to be most prevalent (outside of gold generation).
That aside, regardless of who is cheating or not, removing the CC WOULD eliminate certain third party exploit tools, BUT at the same time, if the EC became prominent, new tools would be developed for the EC as well. So as a client argument, it's one that should be stayed away from.
People cheat in PvP... not all PvPers cheat, but that is where cheating tends to be most prevalent (outside of gold generation).
That aside, regardless of who is cheating or not, removing the CC WOULD eliminate certain third party exploit tools, BUT at the same time, if the EC became prominent, new tools would be developed for the EC as well. So as a client argument, it's one that should be stayed away from.
W
Woodsman
Guest
You would think so...
There's a couple of things at play here.
The first is that Origin used to be known for cutting-edge games, but over time that reputation has been sullied by EA pushing Origin games out the door too early as well as overly-ambitious teams in the past. As a result, anything related to Origin, including UO, now brings up the images of graphics from the 1990s.
The second is that many players have been conditioned to accept that EA can't do modern graphics for UO, when, that's wrong. UO's EC is using the same engine that powers Oblivion, Rift, Fallout 3, and a slew of other games, and EA cranks out games every year that use modern graphics, whether it's Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2, Sims Medieval, or the sports games.
I've posted elsewhere my theories that UO was deliberately harmed by EA executives through various means including dev team turnover which damaged the viability/survivability of new clients, but if it's properly supported by the EA brass here in 2011, there is no reason why UO can't be brought from 2001 up to 2011. None. The graphics could be updated and yet still playable on older computers as well.
It's a matter of commitment from EA.
It's 2011, not 2004. UO can't stay on this downward slope. We've been spared the harsh and truly visible effects of a 66% drop (or more) in subs over the last 5-7 years, because all shards have remained open. At times, I kind of wish shards has been closed as the population dropped, because I feel that would have shattered that false sense of security many have that EA will keep UO going out of the kindness of its heart.
UO needs new players. New players are not looking for graphics from 2001 or screen resolutions that are on par with their cell phones. I want UO to make it to 20 years. That's not going to happen with old graphics.
I had an interesting experience earlier today while playing on Siege. A fellow player who is also in the NEW guild with me came across someone on Pacific that he was able to talk into paying a visit to Siege to check it out. Turns out the fella has only played UO for a total of four months--2 months this year and 2 months a few years ago. He's most recently been playing on Origin and Pacific but was very frustrated because of a couple of things: (1) no one seemed willing to help him understand the best way to locate treasure chests (even with GM mining he was having a lot of difficulty); (2) general chat was abominable on those shards; and (3) in order to try to PvP, he had to spend upwards of 30 million gold to acquire a decent suit.
A very kind English player on Siege (Hoffs from Gilfane) spent a good hour or so talking to the guy in Vent and actually taking him to a couple of locations to get some practice reading and finding treasure chests. A Russian player in NEW provided this individual with links for UO Cartographer and links for helpful information on Stratics and UO Guide. He even ended up with a cartography SoA when one spawned in a treasure chest that Hoffs dug up.
Why no one on the other shards was able to help this individual kind of boggles my mind. It really does. Are we the players sometimes our own worst enemies when it comes to trying to get new and returning players to stick around? Does it take sending them to Siege Perilous, of all places, for them to find a handful of people willing to give up an hour of their playing time to help someone get over their frustration with trying to understand something about UO that literally has them stumped to the point of wanting to quit?
I don't know if this individual is going to stick around. He may or may not feel ready to tackle Siege. But I hope that the couple of us who gave up some of our time today to help him left him with a favorable enough impression to stick around a little bit longer.
A very kind English player on Siege (Hoffs from Gilfane) spent a good hour or so talking to the guy in Vent and actually taking him to a couple of locations to get some practice reading and finding treasure chests. A Russian player in NEW provided this individual with links for UO Cartographer and links for helpful information on Stratics and UO Guide. He even ended up with a cartography SoA when one spawned in a treasure chest that Hoffs dug up.
Why no one on the other shards was able to help this individual kind of boggles my mind. It really does. Are we the players sometimes our own worst enemies when it comes to trying to get new and returning players to stick around? Does it take sending them to Siege Perilous, of all places, for them to find a handful of people willing to give up an hour of their playing time to help someone get over their frustration with trying to understand something about UO that literally has them stumped to the point of wanting to quit?
I don't know if this individual is going to stick around. He may or may not feel ready to tackle Siege. But I hope that the couple of us who gave up some of our time today to help him left him with a favorable enough impression to stick around a little bit longer.
His experiences would appear to be atypical of the production shards.
I've heard numerous conversations, on production shards, where new players cite the helpfulness of UO players as one of its good points.
And have participated in numerous conversations on production shards to explain such and such an aspect of the game.
-Galen's player
The team addressed shard closures in the video HoC.
Basically, other games that have closed servers are those that depend upon a lot of players for the experience.
On UO, by contrast, some people really like the small-scale communities of the small shards, and there are always transfers for those who like seeing more people.
I have no doubt that if keeping shards open was significantly cutting into the profit margin, that they would find a way to close down shards.
And I think if UO weren't profitable, it'd be shut down already.
Let's face it. EA has never liked UO or understood it or treated it well.
I have come to believe your argument that our future is in effect tied to that of that stupid Star Wars game. (I wish I could say you were probably wrong.) And that if (when) it fails, we'll just float away with the rest of the garbage (catch the clever Star Wars reference?) regardless of our being profitable.
-Galen's player
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Woodsman
Guest
One thing has changed recently...EA is casting around for IP to revive or to do something different with. One of the executives (who has BioWare Mythic under him) talked about reviving old IPs, and they are reviving The Sims Online as a web-based MMO.
Of course they are doing so under the Redwood City studio and not BioWare Mythic, but I doubt The Sims group would be willing to give up their IP to another group/division of EA.
I'd feel a lot better if EA were hiring more devs/artists for UO, or if they came out and said they were loaning them devs/artists from other games.
Of course they are doing so under the Redwood City studio and not BioWare Mythic, but I doubt The Sims group would be willing to give up their IP to another group/division of EA.
I'd feel a lot better if EA were hiring more devs/artists for UO, or if they came out and said they were loaning them devs/artists from other games.
In addition to what you said, I'd feel better if I thought EA realized it still owned UO.
The fact that we're "other games" on their customer service phone line is deeply disturbing.
So hey, for clarification....IP in this context means what?
From the context I can surmise it means intellectual property.
Which means you mean that they are casting about for titles or franchises that they already own, have already been developed to a certain degree, may already have fans, and they can do something with, thus capitalizing on an existing brand name.
Kind of like when, in the very early 1980s/late 1970s, after the success of Star Wars, some movie studio (Paramount?) decided to revive a cult sci-fi television series it owned, and make a series of films out of it. This, of course, was Star Trek.
-Galen's player
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Woodsman
Guest
Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
Frank Gibeau Interview | Edge Magazine
I kind of wonder if the Star Wars license has made EA get cold feet on big licenses and helped push them into trying to revive some of their old IP, as well as things like the Sims Online, although Sims Online should have happened a year or two ago.
Regardless, it's frustrating reading that and wondering why they don't make a bigger investment in UO. The producer's update does outline bigger plans for UO, but it feels like they are asking an awful lot out of the existing dev team if they aren't hiring or loaning them additional artists/developers.
I really look forward to the graphics update, and I think they realize they have to make this one stick.
Well, hey, if we're going to go with broad-stroke statements of lunacy, then sure, calling the Classic Client is a bit like calling an outhouse or a chamber pot a Classic Toilet. Then again, the so-called Enhanced Client is a bit like calling a hole in the ground an Enhanced Toilet -- it looks like ****e, behaves like ****e, has been programmed like ****e, and requires someone else to come along and give it an acceptable look.
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Oh, yes, I'm completely way off base with the horrendous history of EA attempting to replace the Classic Client with a new client. They've been SOOOO successful that EVERY client they've released to replace it has been scrapped save the latest iteration which, in fact, is still in beta fast approaching 2 years later.
Lets see you do better...
You want to see me do better? Sure... Convince EA to hire me for Ultima Online, and I guarantee you I would. If you expect me to "do better" for free, good luck with that.
But this idea that just because not everyone supports the EC has something to do with hanging on to old, outdated technology is silly. I've supported each and every one of the new clients up until the point in time that they were released incomplete, released poorly, released badly, or have failed to live up to decent release standards.
And really, come on, they went from the 3D client to the KR client, and decided -- for whatever reason -- that using sprites in a modern client was somehow more reasonable than 3D polygonal models, and then in the EC client they continued suit? Oh, and of course, we're not just hoping and praying that they've fixed the engine issues that caused them to dumb down the resolution on the graphics, right?
Yeah... way off base here with my thoughts.
Guess what... if they actually created a decent, well-programmed, properly released client that didn't require someone else's addon just to be considered "useful," I might actually play it on a regular basis. You can ask the handful of people who know me in real life about how I supported 3D, KR, and the EC in the beginning stages of each... because I used to be blindly faithful that EA would learn from its mistakes and release a well developed client.
I'm sort of done being faithful that the EC will grow.
On the other hand, I'm hoping to be proven that it CAN be the replacement client. It DEFINITELY is not there yet.
I hope alcoholic beverage will have some (negative) effect in the game aside from just hiccupping around. I'm all for realism.
It is good (but also somehow ridiculous) to see that after 2 years they finally decide to do something about the EC. Yet I am careful about counting the chickens before they are hatched.
It is good (but also somehow ridiculous) to see that after 2 years they finally decide to do something about the EC. Yet I am careful about counting the chickens before they are hatched.
Hehe, this is funny and SO true.
To me, the type of person who uses the CC are old-timers (often with old computers) and people who have difficulty to adapt to something new. Which I asumme is a great part of the player base. Cut those off and you basically can shut down UO.
It may be cynical, but while servicing all the old-timers and item collecters to save UO, this is exactly what may break UO's neck in the long term: The inability to attract new and young players.
the only way i would be convinced to use the EC client permanently is if they completely reprogrammed the game to stop using tile based movement which is horrible for a 3D game.
I mean if movement in UO 2D client were like diablo 2 or something that would be such a huge improvement over what it is now that it would be like playing a completely different game.
I mean if movement in UO 2D client were like diablo 2 or something that would be such a huge improvement over what it is now that it would be like playing a completely different game.
M
mjolnir131
Guest
if you really want to do brewing right we need new grape seeds and different types of hops and stuff to grow and cross bread to make the brews
M
mjolnir131
Guest
yes after they had already lost all the possible new player by keeping the old client this has become a sort of a half truth.
brews need to do something that will actually make them useful, like iono have one that gives extra fire resistance that bumps you over the cap for like 10 min, and another that give rapid HP regen and cures any poisons for 4 or 5 seconds or something like that.
otherwise no ones gona be using these distilleries 4 days after they are out.
M
Malrieth
Guest
I am loving this whole thing about moonshine. I have been looking for rum in ultima for quite a while, finaly, hunterboon's fresh rum. Give like 40 to dad.
:bowdown:
:bowdown:
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
That's an excellent idea. I've been wondering how more oomph can be added to this, and I think you have the answer.
I do not want to see it be more buffs. I do want it worldly and for roleplay.
Lets see...
red and white grapes - should zones affect the quality (due to climate)?
Honey for mead.
Wheat (add barley?) for whisky.
Sugar cane for Rum.
Oh! And Potato farmers rejoice! Vodka!
(My potato farmer character may finally eek out a living. He has been complaining much of late that I never created him.)
I use BOTH clients so EA counts me in the "majority" of Classic Client users... but I WANT the Enhanced Client to continue to move forward.
The Enhanced Client is the better client and the future of the game. I can say this because I actually use the EC and Classic clients on a daily basis.
Your computer may not be as smart as mine, or you may enjoy a different playstyle but that's no reason to lock the entire game into obsolescence.
J
Jonathan Baron
Guest
That last post of mine was glib and nasty. I am sorry I allowed emotion to get the better of me.
UO lost 75% of its customers over the past five years.
The original client cannot conceivably attract contemporary customers.
Maintaining two clients with already limited development resources impedes the creation of fresh content and a proper new player experience.
The EC is far easier to learn and use. Plus it has far greater functionality "out of the box." I know you can't see that. Nobody "raised" on the CC could, but it's true nonetheless.
Over the past year I've been playing this game:
I've seen former backbone shards shrink.
Loud and very public migrations of entire guilds to those few remaining populous shards where it's easy to live in denial.
Grave robbing become high entertainment. A building in decay is viewed with excitement and the behavior of people gathering around it as it's about to fall is beyond creepy.
Large clusters of people, on several shards, just sitting at Luna bank on vanity pets, clad in high end combat garb, NOT DOING ANYTHING. The first word that came into my mind was not a pleasant one: tumor....the Luna Tumor.
Not a single new player that is not, in fact, a returning player. Of these, I am the only one who has stuck it out this long - this is NOT a fact, but I simply don't know of any others.
So let me add one last item to the list of premises to this syllogism:
The people who remain care deeply and have enormous capital in time, emotion, and memory invested in this digital world.
Taken all in all, I just don't get it. Why aren't the veteran players BEGGING the dev team to drop the old client entirely? Having to learn a UI is such a small price to pay to improve the chances that something you care deeply for will continue to survive.
So I yielded to my bewilderment and posted something glib and, I now feel, rather insulting.
But I have to wonder if I'm witnessing some heretofore unknown and undocumented online community behavior that mirrors Lemmings in reverse. Lemmings resort of mass suicide when their numbers exceed resources. This lot demonstrates suicidal behavior when its numbers are shrinking.
Taken all in all, who would stick around? All the neat bits are there alright....I still logon....still play at combat in both tram and fel (though I'm not much good at it), still get and fill the BODs (a BRILLIANT character building game system btw) on the crafters I'm slowly creating, and all that. But how much more heart, mind, and time investment in all of this is rational?
I recall a bizarre oversight when house hunting once - an abandoned aquarium sitting the corner of a basement: a corner that, due to the intrusion of an oil tank nearby, kept it in near absolute darkness. Light only being about to bounce at right angles and all that.
There were still fish in it, although all expressions of love and care - lamps, heaters, little bubbly things meant to keep the water rich in oxygen - had long ago been either disconnected or removed. No food of course. So what fish were left? What survived in this dark, airless, cold aquatic universe in miniature where the only possible nourishment were the bodies of the survivors themselves?
Little fish. Nervous, suspicious little fish.
Although it saddens me that I recall this often when playing UO now, that the last lines of Tennyson's Ulysses no longer resonate in my wee brain as they did when I first elected to return, I can't quite seem to quit yet. Still bouncing from server to server, thinking that something of those braver days when online games had such a powerful hold over enormous personalities and fascinating people remains. You can't find it in those silly leveling games, that's for sure
-
That's what has surprised me. I simply looked at the basic, inarguable facts:
UO lost 75% of its customers over the past five years.
The original client cannot conceivably attract contemporary customers.
Maintaining two clients with already limited development resources impedes the creation of fresh content and a proper new player experience.
The EC is far easier to learn and use. Plus it has far greater functionality "out of the box." I know you can't see that. Nobody "raised" on the CC could, but it's true nonetheless.
Over the past year I've been playing this game:
I've seen former backbone shards shrink.
Loud and very public migrations of entire guilds to those few remaining populous shards where it's easy to live in denial.
Grave robbing become high entertainment. A building in decay is viewed with excitement and the behavior of people gathering around it as it's about to fall is beyond creepy.
Large clusters of people, on several shards, just sitting at Luna bank on vanity pets, clad in high end combat garb, NOT DOING ANYTHING. The first word that came into my mind was not a pleasant one: tumor....the Luna Tumor.
Not a single new player that is not, in fact, a returning player. Of these, I am the only one who has stuck it out this long - this is NOT a fact, but I simply don't know of any others.
So let me add one last item to the list of premises to this syllogism:
The people who remain care deeply and have enormous capital in time, emotion, and memory invested in this digital world.
Taken all in all, I just don't get it. Why aren't the veteran players BEGGING the dev team to drop the old client entirely? Having to learn a UI is such a small price to pay to improve the chances that something you care deeply for will continue to survive.
So I yielded to my bewilderment and posted something glib and, I now feel, rather insulting.
But I have to wonder if I'm witnessing some heretofore unknown and undocumented online community behavior that mirrors Lemmings in reverse. Lemmings resort of mass suicide when their numbers exceed resources. This lot demonstrates suicidal behavior when its numbers are shrinking.
Taken all in all, who would stick around? All the neat bits are there alright....I still logon....still play at combat in both tram and fel (though I'm not much good at it), still get and fill the BODs (a BRILLIANT character building game system btw) on the crafters I'm slowly creating, and all that. But how much more heart, mind, and time investment in all of this is rational?
I recall a bizarre oversight when house hunting once - an abandoned aquarium sitting the corner of a basement: a corner that, due to the intrusion of an oil tank nearby, kept it in near absolute darkness. Light only being about to bounce at right angles and all that.
There were still fish in it, although all expressions of love and care - lamps, heaters, little bubbly things meant to keep the water rich in oxygen - had long ago been either disconnected or removed. No food of course. So what fish were left? What survived in this dark, airless, cold aquatic universe in miniature where the only possible nourishment were the bodies of the survivors themselves?
Little fish. Nervous, suspicious little fish.
Although it saddens me that I recall this often when playing UO now, that the last lines of Tennyson's Ulysses no longer resonate in my wee brain as they did when I first elected to return, I can't quite seem to quit yet. Still bouncing from server to server, thinking that something of those braver days when online games had such a powerful hold over enormous personalities and fascinating people remains. You can't find it in those silly leveling games, that's for sure
-
I am sure a lot of us realize, that without some major turn in investment strategy, it is a 'when' not an 'if'. But we choose not of speak of it here because it begets nothing but sadness.
Edited to add: As explained above, I am unable to play the parts of UO I enjoy on the EC. They have to fix it. Make a modern, graphically acceptable, full function client out of it or the game will parish. And it could well fail, even if they were to succeed at this. The real question is will they make the effort and will it be in time.
And a final thought: You can't force a player to do something in an MMO. If they find it distasteful enough they will just exit the game instead. The EC must entice the players to it. No amount of coercion will solve the issue.
Edited to add: As explained above, I am unable to play the parts of UO I enjoy on the EC. They have to fix it. Make a modern, graphically acceptable, full function client out of it or the game will parish. And it could well fail, even if they were to succeed at this. The real question is will they make the effort and will it be in time.
And a final thought: You can't force a player to do something in an MMO. If they find it distasteful enough they will just exit the game instead. The EC must entice the players to it. No amount of coercion will solve the issue.
F
Fayled Dhreams
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pfffft!That last post of mine was glib and nasty. I am sorry I allowed emotion to get the better of me.
That's what has surprised me. I simply looked at the basic, inarguable facts:
UO lost 75% of its customers over the past five years.
The original client cannot conceivably attract contemporary customers.
Maintaining two clients with already limited development resources impedes the creation of fresh content and a proper new player experience.
The EC is far easier to learn and use. Plus it has far greater functionality "out of the box." I know you can't see that. Nobody "raised" on the CC could, but it's true nonetheless.
Over the past year I've been playing this game:
I've seen former backbone shards shrink.
Loud and very public migrations of entire guilds to those few remaining populous shards where it's easy to live in denial.
Grave robbing become high entertainment. A building in decay is viewed with excitement and the behavior of people gathering around it as it's about to fall is beyond creepy.
Large clusters of people, on several shards, just sitting at Luna bank on vanity pets, clad in high end combat garb, NOT DOING ANYTHING. The first word that came into my mind was not a pleasant one: tumor....the Luna Tumor.
Not a single new player that is not, in fact, a returning player. Of these, I am the only one who has stuck it out this long - this is NOT a fact, but I simply don't know of any others.
So let me add one last item to the list of premises to this syllogism:
The people who remain care deeply and have enormous capital in time, emotion, and memory invested in this digital world.
Taken all in all, I just don't get it. Why aren't the veteran players BEGGING the dev team to drop the old client entirely? Having to learn a UI is such a small price to pay to improve the chances that something you care deeply for will continue to survive.
So I yielded to my bewilderment and posted something glib and, I now feel, rather insulting.
But I have to wonder if I'm witnessing some heretofore unknown and undocumented online community behavior that mirrors Lemmings in reverse. Lemmings resort of mass suicide when their numbers exceed resources. This lot demonstrates suicidal behavior when its numbers are shrinking.
Taken all in all, who would stick around? All the neat bits are there alright....I still logon....still play at combat in both tram and fel (though I'm not much good at it), still get and fill the BODs (a BRILLIANT character building game system btw) on the crafters I'm slowly creating, and all that. But how much more heart, mind, and time investment in all of this is rational?
I recall a bizarre oversight when house hunting once - an abandoned aquarium sitting the corner of a basement: a corner that, due to the intrusion of an oil tank nearby, kept it in near absolute darkness. Light only being about to bounce at right angles and all that.
There were still fish in it, although all expressions of love and care - lamps, heaters, little bubbly things meant to keep the water rich in oxygen - had long ago been either disconnected or removed. No food of course. So what fish were left? What survived in this dark, airless, cold aquatic universe in miniature where the only possible nourishment were the bodies of the survivors themselves?
Little fish. Nervous, suspicious little fish.
Although it saddens me that I recall this often when playing UO now, that the last lines of Tennyson's Ulysses no longer resonate in my wee brain as they did when I first elected to return, I can't quite seem to quit yet. Still bouncing from server to server, thinking that something of those braver days when online games had such a powerful hold over enormous personalities and fascinating people remains. You can't find it in those silly leveling games, that's for sure
-
75% ?
check your math old man ...
or at least how you write it as an "interpretation" of what you see ...
don't forget ...
"a customer" is someone whom paid to play
and those numbers will likely NEVER see the light of day (here in the hall)
the CC CAN "conceivably" attract new players (and keep them)
an actual bug free client << would be the device required ...
oops!
must be IMPOSSIBLE to write though eh? (stupid programmers ...
)same point
2 clients ... *ahem* ONE >first< is a requirement ... one in a row sort of basic stuff ... like counting ...
The EC is far easier to learn and use
for left handed or right handed?
people who do/don't rtfm?
there are NO "backbone shards"
there are different >tidal pools< ... ecologies/niches
Live in denial ...
they are denying that they survive? curious turn of phrase ... old man
you're living in denial in this tidal pool of the net?
Not a single new player that is not, in fact, a returning player
*tsk*
math in the hall AGAIN?
hy-per-bole more likely*shrugs*
o'well ... I suppose you hold as much "artistic license" as I do ...
I just been doing it longer ...
kelmo
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Jonathan. While I genuinely enjoy your posts and even your point of view, I do wish raise a small objection to a very minor point or two in your last post.
I do assure you that I as a solo player, and the largest friendliest all purpose guilds on Siege, GIL, and some few strays... (*winks at Doive and others*) view Idocs as a fact in the game. They are going to happen. The folks I mention save the resources, and on occasion... history of the shard.
I will personally guarantee that this crew I speak of use the majority of these items to help better out shard. We accomplish this in many ways. We support the NEW guild. A guild dedicated to helping new Siege players learn the rules and the "rules" of Siege.
We also use the resources and other treasures as prizes for events big and small. Sometimes... We just see a random wish in general chat from someone new to the shard, we make it happen. Oft times anomalously.
The crew I speak of is blue, red, green, orange and sometimes grey...
Grave robbing may apply some... Not this crew.
*tips hat* I just wanted to get that off my chest. I will continue to read your posts with interest, as I do appreciate them.
Yes. Idocs happen. Now I can only speak for the shard of Siege Perilous. Yes, there are some that seek only gain from these sad events that happen and often no one notices.
I do assure you that I as a solo player, and the largest friendliest all purpose guilds on Siege, GIL, and some few strays... (*winks at Doive and others*) view Idocs as a fact in the game. They are going to happen. The folks I mention save the resources, and on occasion... history of the shard.
I will personally guarantee that this crew I speak of use the majority of these items to help better out shard. We accomplish this in many ways. We support the NEW guild. A guild dedicated to helping new Siege players learn the rules and the "rules" of Siege.
We also use the resources and other treasures as prizes for events big and small. Sometimes... We just see a random wish in general chat from someone new to the shard, we make it happen. Oft times anomalously.
The crew I speak of is blue, red, green, orange and sometimes grey...
Grave robbing may apply some... Not this crew.
*tips hat* I just wanted to get that off my chest. I will continue to read your posts with interest, as I do appreciate them.
"Why aren't the veteran players BEGGING the dev team to drop the old client entirely?"
"A dominant number of players still use the Classic Client."
Not a few more, not a couple, not a handful, a dominant number. Why you ask? People like the familiar. People like the classics. I'd sure rather have a classic Mustang than one of the new ones. Sure the new ones have all these shiny new features and updated lines, but the old one, the one I grew up with having in the garage, it was a thing of beauty. Many driving around in the old have no desire to drive the new. So it is with UO clients.
"Grave robbing become high entertainment. A building in decay is viewed with excitement and the behavior of people gathering around it as it's about to fall is beyond creepy."
IDOC hunting isn't a new invention, it's been around a long long time. It's a game system just as much as BODS or champ spawns. Housing WAS once much like the cycle of life, and houses and the things in them were recycled. A house placed (born), lived in (life), falls (death). Lately though it's become a bit depressing, where once houses were replaced and sold now land sits open due to low population. Morbid indeed.
"Large clusters of people, on several shards, just sitting at Luna bank on vanity pets, clad in high end combat garb, NOT DOING ANYTHING. The first word that came into my mind was not a pleasant one: tumor....the Luna Tumor."
This too is nothing new, people did this even in the heyday of UO. Just substitute Britain with Luna. It's a meeting place, a place to buy trade and sell, General chat has done away with the spamming and interaction there but people still go there to meet up.
"The original client cannot conceivably attract contemporary customers."
I would change that to: The original GAME cannot conceivably attract contemporary customers. Most people who do start playing are returnees not complete newbies. UO is the grandfather of MMOs. Graphics/client debate aside the heart and soul of UO are its many many game systems. So much to do in UO. No matter what you do though through content or clients you aren't going to bring back tens of thousands of people to this aged game. Only a modern sequel based on the systems of the original would bring huge numbers.The only conceivable way I can see for the population of the current game to turn around from its decline and grow again is to move to a Free to Play system. Rekindle the interest in anyone who ever stepped foot in Brittania.
Realize the need to fix the game over adding new systems that potentially break the game further. No one likes logging in after a 2 year absence just to notice a dozen bugs that hadn't been fixed while they were away. Get it stable (client freezes and crashes), running well (housing server is totally screwed up), and FINISH what was started (Virtues, Ter-Mur).
"A dominant number of players still use the Classic Client."
Not a few more, not a couple, not a handful, a dominant number. Why you ask? People like the familiar. People like the classics. I'd sure rather have a classic Mustang than one of the new ones. Sure the new ones have all these shiny new features and updated lines, but the old one, the one I grew up with having in the garage, it was a thing of beauty. Many driving around in the old have no desire to drive the new. So it is with UO clients.
"Grave robbing become high entertainment. A building in decay is viewed with excitement and the behavior of people gathering around it as it's about to fall is beyond creepy."
IDOC hunting isn't a new invention, it's been around a long long time. It's a game system just as much as BODS or champ spawns. Housing WAS once much like the cycle of life, and houses and the things in them were recycled. A house placed (born), lived in (life), falls (death). Lately though it's become a bit depressing, where once houses were replaced and sold now land sits open due to low population. Morbid indeed.
"Large clusters of people, on several shards, just sitting at Luna bank on vanity pets, clad in high end combat garb, NOT DOING ANYTHING. The first word that came into my mind was not a pleasant one: tumor....the Luna Tumor."
This too is nothing new, people did this even in the heyday of UO. Just substitute Britain with Luna. It's a meeting place, a place to buy trade and sell, General chat has done away with the spamming and interaction there but people still go there to meet up.
"The original client cannot conceivably attract contemporary customers."
I would change that to: The original GAME cannot conceivably attract contemporary customers. Most people who do start playing are returnees not complete newbies. UO is the grandfather of MMOs. Graphics/client debate aside the heart and soul of UO are its many many game systems. So much to do in UO. No matter what you do though through content or clients you aren't going to bring back tens of thousands of people to this aged game. Only a modern sequel based on the systems of the original would bring huge numbers.The only conceivable way I can see for the population of the current game to turn around from its decline and grow again is to move to a Free to Play system. Rekindle the interest in anyone who ever stepped foot in Brittania.
Realize the need to fix the game over adding new systems that potentially break the game further. No one likes logging in after a 2 year absence just to notice a dozen bugs that hadn't been fixed while they were away. Get it stable (client freezes and crashes), running well (housing server is totally screwed up), and FINISH what was started (Virtues, Ter-Mur).
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pfffft!
75% ?
check your math old man ...
or at least how you write it as an "interpretation" of what you see ...
don't forget ...
"a customer" is someone whom paid to play
and those numbers will likely NEVER see the light of day (here in the hall)
the CC CAN "conceivably" attract new players (and keep them)
an actual bug free client << would be the device required ...
oops!
must be IMPOSSIBLE to write though eh? (stupid programmers ...
same point
2 clients ... *ahem* ONE >first< is a requirement ... one in a row sort of basic stuff ... like counting ...
The EC is far easier to learn and use
for left handed or right handed?
people who do/don't rtfm?
there are NO "backbone shards"
there are different >tidal pools< ... ecologies/niches
Live in denial ...
they are denying that they survive? curious turn of phrase ... old man
you're living in denial in this tidal pool of the net?
Not a single new player that is not, in fact, a returning player
*tsk*
math in the hall AGAIN?
*shrugs*
o'well ... I suppose you hold as much "artistic license" as I do ...
I just been doing it longer ...
Doubt you've been doing it longer or have a better grasp of UO, and actually the Industry as a whole than he does... for starters he used to work for Origin Systems by in UO's early years, and if looking over other posts he's made he's worked for other development studios as well....
Outside Generalizations on Figures pretty much what he's stated is accurate, there will always be a few exceptions but for the most part the CC isn't going to attract new players, and to be quite honest out of all the returning players I've talked to in the past few months, all of them that have been gone any considerable length of time, playing other MMO's are playing exclusively in the EC. Why? Because it is a modern UI experience. You can't expect someone who's played WoW, LOTRO, WAR, or any of the other multitude of modern MMO's to walk up to UO and say "Wow the CC is great!". It's not going to happen, it's limited, clunky, and has very little potential for improvement or growth. It is time for Bioware to make a decision, phase out the CC or phase out UO.
T
Trebr Drab
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Jonathan, you are reminding me of another time... and what seems like another place now.
A time when discourse was an art. When the sound was metered out with words in a fashion belonging to ancients. When gods walked the lands of MMORPGs. When gamers actually talked that way.
A time when discourse was an art. When the sound was metered out with words in a fashion belonging to ancients. When gods walked the lands of MMORPGs. When gamers actually talked that way.
W
Woodsman
Guest
Ford doesn't base its current success on cars it designed in the 1960s.