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The Real Problem With PvP

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V

Vaelix

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Apples to oranges you cannot compare human rights to a game design, I'm not surprised you tried to go there though. :lol:

Last time i checked, we both are paying the exact same amount of cash on our Monthy Subscription, I wasn't aware that your money some how held more value than mine, therefore my style of gameplay should be excluded.

Weird Concept.
 

kelmo

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Some how I doubt that... You may have played a role in it though. I am beginning to think this thread is beyond salvaging. Just saying.
 
O

Old Man of UO

Guest
*blinks* What? How did we get here?
Jax's back is to the wall! 25 posts and he's losing his argument, so he throws out the race card! I'm betting the kitchen sink is next and then he starts kicking puppies and kittens!
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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You should be careful in your mentioning sinks and such, it would arouse Kelmo...

's anger...

Pots have never been a problem for me, in the field they are essential to balance out otherwise helpless situations, but the fact that a potion heals any poison, instant without timer. Well the potion should cost more.

It is not balanced, I also felt towards that when I tried to pvp again. When we had duels in AMT back in 1998-2000 there was no pots or other backack fights in mage duels and it was well balanced and fun to participate into, same for melee.

It did require skill to anticipate and how to "dance around" another char ; yes it was simpler but it was still very dynamic.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

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Last time i checked, we both are paying the exact same amount of cash on our Monthy Subscription, I wasn't aware that your money some how held more value than mine, therefore my style of gameplay should be excluded.

Weird Concept.
The weird thing here is you are projecting hardcore, I don't pay for this game currently, I did for ten years but anyways I never said anything about your style of gameplay being excluded, I'm just telling it like it is, the majority of UO players don't seem to give a lick about PvP.

I'm not saying the developers shouldn't care, I'm just saying they seem to prioritize based on what the majority of their customers want, talk about your weird concepts huh?
 
V

Vaelix

Guest
The weird thing here is you are projecting hardcore, I don't pay for this game currently, I did for ten years but anyways I never said anything about your style of gameplay being excluded, I'm just telling it like it is, the majority of UO players don't seem to give a lick about PvP.

I'm not saying the developers shouldn't care, I'm just saying they seem to prioritize based on what the majority of their customers want, talk about your weird concepts huh?
Obviously they should prioritize to what the majority of the players are interested, however, it has never been a good business practice to ignore the needs of pre-existing clients, Even if they are a minority.
 

Ls Jax Ls

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Jax's back is to the wall! 25 posts and he's losing his argument, so he throws out the race card! I'm betting the kitchen sink is next and then he starts kicking puppies and kittens!
What on earth are you talking about? The race card? That doesn't even make sense. I made a simple comparison...not sure what you're getting at.
 
O

Old Man of UO

Guest
What on earth are you talking about? The race card? That doesn't even make sense. I made a simple comparison...not sure what you're getting at.
Aww... you're cute when you play dumb and innocent. You are playing, right?
 
J

Jesusislord

Guest
I find it amazing people are talking about skill in the oldest, most unbalanced game ever to exist in this universe.

Dexers, luck, 50% chance hit is luck and nothing else. No Skill. Chance to parry, luck.
Mages, luck, 50% chance the dexer will hit boils down to nothing but luck once again.

Mage vs mage, too bad to even want to explain. The least epic thing in a video game is two mages casting their most impotent spells on each other to win. The way it is now is not skill, nor has it ever been. Luck was the factor when you could resist spells with the resisting spells skill, and it's luck now with whoever lands the first spell plague. A pure mage fight comes down who's spell spam is faster.

PvP in UO is a joke. It's apparent that whatever team is working on this game these days has no intention of even looking into how to make pvp a more enjoyable experience.

It's a joke when you can run away at will in battle.
It's a joke when you can paralyze someone and if they don't have a box you get a free kill.
It's a joke.

Common sense tells us when a weapon collides with a person, the person should take damage. Not in UO, where a Legendary Archer can miss a target that's standing still a few tiles away. This is enough to convince anyone not to play this outdated, forsaken, collage of unenjoyment.

Rock Paper Scissors is more fun.
 

Ls Jax Ls

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I find it amazing people are talking about skill in the oldest, most unbalanced game ever to exist in this universe.

Dexers, luck, 50% chance hit is luck and nothing else. No Skill. Chance to parry, luck.
Mages, luck, 50% chance the dexer will hit boils down to nothing but luck once again.

Mage vs mage, too bad to even want to explain. The least epic thing in a video game is two mages casting their most impotent spells on each other to win. The way it is now is not skill, nor has it ever been. Luck was the factor when you could resist spells with the resisting spells skill, and it's luck now with whoever lands the first spell plague. A pure mage fight comes down who's spell spam is faster.

PvP in UO is a joke. It's apparent that whatever team is working on this game these days has no intention of even looking into how to make pvp a more enjoyable experience.

It's a joke when you can run away at will in battle.
It's a joke when you can paralyze someone and if they don't have a box you get a free kill.
It's a joke.

Common sense tells us when a weapon collides with a person, the person should take damage. Not in UO, where a Legendary Archer can miss a target that's standing still a few tiles away. This is enough to convince anyone not to play this outdated, forsaken, collage of unenjoyment.

Rock Paper Scissors is more fun.
You sure put a lot of effort into that little tantrum of yours for hating the game so much. :rant2:
 

Restroom Cowboy

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Never in my life have I heard someone cry so much about ping. The reason there are different servers is because people ping differently. If you ping bad on a shard DON'T PLAY IT. Nobody forced you to play a shard you ping bad to. I also told you I don't know how many times I ping 7 on one connection, 35-40 on the other. I perform the same regardless. Sounds like someone is still sore because I made them look ridiculous without pots. :sad2:
If you recall, you got your a$$ handed to you 5 of 6 times in an even fight. We went no pots because I wanted to show you the advantage of ping, and the results were obvious. Unlike yourself, I prefer a challenge...mostly due to the fact that a bad ping for me is unavoidable. Do I complain about it? No. I do however keep bringing it up due to the fact that you continuously use it as a crutch to avoid fair fights.

Again, nothing for me to be sore about...5 of 6 fights you lost, while having access to the very same template...with a backpack full of pots and a healing stone...to a player pinging 100 vs. your 7. Seems to me your *skill* is not as great as you think, else you would have won them all...and not just one.

Every squirrel eventually gets a nut, even you.

Oh and this nobody forced you crap is ********, I ping badly everywhere. Yet I don't back out of fights due bad pings...on the other hand you do. When you arent turning down fights, you are here crying about the rest of your losses.

Newsflash, this game does not revolve around you.
 

Restroom Cowboy

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hate to break it to ya...but ping overrides skill. without a good ping in this game, good luck killing much of anyone...even if you are a good player.

if this were not true, you would be playing other shards...aside from just the ones you ping 7 to.

hell, I would even offer to pay for one of your transfers to fight me on a shard where we are even ping...then I will go no pots. im guessing you would once again refuse.

regardless of your reply, potions level the playing field for those who LIKE to pvp but don't have the ping for it. i have no issues killing people pinging 100, i dont see why then you have an issue with pots. with a 7 ping I would pwn everyone, and would have no need for blindcasting...target query...or pots.

just sayin...
I didnt address your "Ping Point" because there is not validity behind it.

I Play Siege Perilous, I live West Coast, the Server is a Virginia Based Server, I Ping 100 Average and can Field Fight Just fine against every other player on that shard, Even my Guildie who pings 3...

Yes, Ping will always be a huge impact on how well you preform, but that is true for ANY Game, so *IMO* Is is a "Silent Understood" and we dont use it as an example of Why or Why not we Suck.
:stir:
Don't really see what you are getting at...I offered him a fight even ping to show how it actually does make a difference. Fielding I have no issue with, as should be apparent to his large amount of losses, and only one win.

Ping allows the user to more quickly send and receive data from the server...which equates to the lower ping user seeing the information and being able to respond to it more quickly than the player with inadequate ping. Hence references to terms like blindcasting...

The only reason ping was brought into THIS conversation was due to his large number of posts requesting nerfs of this, and nerfs of that. He wants pots to go out the window for his own selfish reason, which is because he loses *even* fights. All you need do is look back on his threads, and for each nerf this thread I am sure you will find him gettting his a$$ handed to him, because his ping didn't win the fights for him.

Vaelix, not sure if you have seen this turd in action...but I am sure you would be posting something similar if you came across this guy in game.
 

Ls Jax Ls

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Ping allows the user to more quickly send and receive data from the server...which equates to the lower ping user seeing the information and being able to respond to it more quickly than the player with inadequate ping. Hence references to terms like blindcasting...
In 7 years, you are the first person to ever mention such a phenomena as "blindcasting". Here are a few solutions since you ping bad EVERYWHERE:

1. Get a job -> Buy decent internet connection -> Still suck -> Find new excuse
2. Quit crying -> Accept the fact you're not that good -> Have fun playing UO

I could ping 5x as much as you and not lose a fight in 15 seconds.
 

Viper09

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In 7 years, you are the first person to ever mention such a phenomena as "blindcasting". Here are a few solutions since you ping bad EVERYWHERE:

1. Get a job -> Buy decent internet connection -> Still suck -> Find new excuse
2. Quit crying -> Accept the fact you're not that good -> Have fun playing UO

I could ping 5x as much as you and not lose a fight in 15 seconds.
In that case I think you should pick number 2 for yourself.
 

Restroom Cowboy

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In 7 years, you are the first person to ever mention such a phenomena as "blindcasting". Here are a few solutions since you ping bad EVERYWHERE:

1. Get a job -> Buy decent internet connection -> Still suck -> Find new excuse
2. Quit crying -> Accept the fact you're not that good -> Have fun playing UO

I could ping 5x as much as you and not lose a fight in 15 seconds.
1) I live in a small town for the sake of quiet, has nothing to do with being cheap. Living here is actually more expensive than in the city...try again.
2) Crying? Look in the mirror dipstick, I never used my ping as the crutch...on the other hand you refused to duel on a shard we both pinged equally bad. If I were crying, I would have started the thre...oh wait...

Never heard of blindcasting? I suggest you stay on your little island there...
Just to break it down for helmet wearers everywhere...it is the process of guessing what your opponent will cast next and then casting accordingly. It is what us *bad players* do when we don't have that extra second of time to rely on.

Btw, I mention again...if I were so bad...how did I kick your ass 5 out of 6 fights? And was I the one to start a thread about it over the loss two days later? Buttsore much?
 

Ls Jax Ls

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Btw, I mention again...if I were so bad...how did I kick your ass 5 out of 6 fights?
Ever hear of mysticism? You spammed magic arrow nether bolt spell plague for 5 minutes straight every fight. Please don't act like you're good.
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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You guys should look at what EA did... not what exploit is better than the next, any static set of action would seem to fall in this grey area.

I'm very off of the state of PVP right now, I couldn't even compete... but I have went to fel recently to observe and got my ass kicked, and well it seemed to me like items and special combos were always the same used, in the old days, there were times when you tought about using meteor shower, heck even summon monster if you were fighting in a tight area to block someone.

You weren't sure you were going to use a red pot, you did not script cure to automatically drink and auto deequip reequip.

I know some people always did, thats perhaps why I always ended up 5th position and up on the AMT tournaments, but heck I had so much fun losing.

When it stops being fun and starts to be frustrating, you should all look towards EA. I'm not implying it's a bad company in itself, its just that they took most of the fun away with the move to make this game more mainstream. I do not think it would be intentional but who knows where the guardian is right now ?

May I remind you that if it were only for me ; I'd make scripting UNETHICAL and would prevent it with a neat little script I made myself, that is not that much ingenuous.

It's a roleplaying game, and if you can do 4 things at once because your "roleplaying" is to be a terminatador 3000 who's mental abilities push the patheticability of a certain situation to its limits.... well...

well.
 

SixUnder

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I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but it is long overdue. Pots/Consumables have been slowly destroying PvP for years now. I don't understand how such extremely overpowered items are able to be used at no cost to the user. Yes, you have to buy them but let's be serious, I can buy 10,000 of each for 1-2m which will last probably until UO comes to an end.

Nearly every single player relies HEAVILY upon pots and consumables, which take 0 skill points to use and 0 skill in PvP to use. Mage PvP is almost entirely based on being able to keep your opponent poisoned, and incapable of healing. The reason Mages are so ineffective without overpowered skills such as mysticism is because pots and consumables are taking over PvP.

This doesn't relate just to 1v1 battles. Group fighting has been greatly destroyed by these items as well. Before everyone chugged, group fighting relied heavily on teamwork. If an individual was being dumped by a group, they would almost certainly die without a cross-heal. This is no longer the case, as all the player has to do is apple, cure pot, heal pot and be able to live through any reasonable dump. This allows (which is what most guilds do nowadays) for everyone to basically fight by themselves, without any real sense of team work.

Potential fixes:

1. Increase all consumable timers to 1-2 minutes INCLUDING CURE POTS. I have no idea why cure pots do not have a timer being as they are the most commonly used pot of all.

2. Require a skill (alchemy for example) to be able to use such consumables.

3. The best option in my opinion, remove consumables entirely from UO. There is absolutely no valid reason for these being a part of the game. If they were removed, a vast number of templates would be revived, and PvP would return to its great glory.

For those who would like to see balance in UO PvP once again, look no further than ending this ridiculous trend. I can't begin to describe how much better PvP will become without consumables in UO.
these items are the only thing that seperates most templates from a good necro or a good mystic. without multiple ways to cure, remove curse, heal, etc. you will be much easier target.

if you nerf the templates some play then sure, add timer or remove some stuff. but as long as you see these wild templates. got to have them
 

Ls Jax Ls

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these items are the only thing that seperates most templates from a good necro or a good mystic.
Lol. Yes, heaven forbid the better player actually win the fight. :bowdown:
 

Gilmour

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Healing potions should work the same way as they do in WoW.

1 potion per battle
1m cool down outside of battle.

Healing and Mana potions function the same way.

This means you have to pick and chose when to use em. Not spam them away with macros.
great idea, same time introduce mana potions pls :D
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
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When it stops being fun and starts to be frustrating
This is how I feel being spell plagued by 3+ individual people OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Then two of them hop off there dread mare and ALL KILL. I'm not logging on again till I see pub notes including the mysticism "tweak".
 

puni666

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great idea, same time introduce mana potions pls :D
Umm there's 2 skills to regain mana passively, and 0 skills to regain HP passively. Why would we need a mana potion besides the mana drought potions?
 

Restroom Cowboy

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Ever hear of mysticism? You spammed magic arrow nether bolt spell plague for 5 minutes straight every fight. Please don't act like you're good.
Gee whiz, so I had the advantage since we were going mystic vs. mystic? what type of ******** suggestion do you have for us next?
 

Restroom Cowboy

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This is how I feel being spell plagued by 3+ individual people OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Then two of them hop off there dread mare and ALL KILL. I'm not logging on again till I see pub notes including the mysticism "tweak".
I hate to say it, but *group* fighting is all about the gank. Don't blame death to multiple people on one skill, blame it on factions. Thanks.
 
W

Wojoe

Guest
The real problem with PVP is the dev's fault...they treat it like a unwanted stepchild...hey Cal, whats the status of pvp updates in UO?
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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It's because it became highly political... during the times...

there were the passionate players who wanted freedom, and the desperate losers who asked to have an omnipotent police in their sandbox...

Very simple really.

It was simpler back then and the fun was balanced, there wasn't so much ganking back then, with spell resist you always had a chance to run away if you were careful enough.

We didn't have the term invented even... go figure.

But since its so highly political and also carries a kind of "legendary" emotional charge, the young kids want to feel the same fun we did back then... but they fail at it terribly ; that is what we witness in fel now.

But don't go blame em, they have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes.
 

Restroom Cowboy

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It's because it became highly political... during the times...

there were the passionate players who wanted freedom, and the desperate losers who asked to have an omnipotent police in their sandbox...

Very simple really.

It was simpler back then and the fun was balanced, there wasn't so much ganking back then, with spell resist you always had a chance to run away if you were careful enough.

We didn't have the term invented even... go figure.

But since its so highly political and also carries a kind of "legendary" emotional charge, the young kids want to feel the same fun we did back then... but they fail at it terribly ; that is what we witness in fel now.

But don't go blame em, they have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes.
I wouldnt call it balanced, a mage could pwn back then with little more than a halby and a loincloth. The game changed, evolved...perhaps not always for the better but seldom for the worst. When something was too powerful it was nerfed, when new content came out the old became antiquated. Regardless of the change there were always some who would reflect on the past only to often realize how hypocritical their views of it often were.

The issue here is there is no issue. Either adapt and learn to overcome or else cry about the personal (yes personal...not game encompassing) issues on uhall and expect the devs to listen to the madness. Unfortunately here exists the rub...the devs actually listen to the waterheads.
 

ohmyGED

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I look at these threads and just laugh.

Life IS NOT balanced, why would you expect a game to be?


Otherwise, we'd all be walking around as millionaires....

It is unrealistic to think that every template should overcome every template. "My crafter who has magery can't beat your mystic/mage.....my chef/detective/beggar can't beat your dexxer.....blah, blah, blah"

Every template has their strengths and weaknesses....it's your choice, so choose wisely.

Stop complaining. Learn or adapt. Let the developers do their work and stop crying. They need to please the grand majority of players, not a hand full of complainers that have nothing better to do. Grow up. If you are that disgusted with it, then DON'T PLAY...just QUIT.
 

Lord Frodo

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You can troll other threads with your BS but when it comes to you and your whining, god forbid if anyone disagrees with you.
Originally Posted by Ls Jax Ls
And I too find it offensive. I also have tried to delude myself by saying that they are only hurting themselves in their cheating but that's not true... it hurts everyone.
Please describe for me the last time you were personally hurt by scripting.
Please describe for me the last time you were personally hurt by the changes to PvP that you can't stop whining about. Guess it is only ok for you to whine about things. TROLL much.
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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You really don't get it do you ?

That must be why I'm so... oh nevermind I'm not important.

For a long time I tought it was impossible to talk about PvP without people eventually peaking about some of the major changes which are a consensus of sorts that... the working wheels are exposed to meta-physical hacking.

But it seems this is not an issue your honor.

So let life go by with the gentlest passionate illusion of nerds who are walking away with millions of dollars made out of material that is illegal in even the simplest ethical way.

Oh yes, let them walk away... poor souls.

I feel sorry.
 

puni666

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I hate to say it, but *group* fighting is all about the gank. Don't blame death to multiple people on one skill, blame it on factions. Thanks.
Oh that's right everyone chains the same spell because it's underpowered. Balance only comes after attracting attention to the skills with EA... which is the case here. Remember spellweaving?
 

Restroom Cowboy

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Oh that's right everyone chains the same spell because it's underpowered. Balance only comes after attracting attention to the skills with EA... which is the case here. Remember spellweaving?
Gee...I guess you forgot people doing the same with flamestrike through the years? WoD is a far cry from SP...even on SP's best day.

Again, if you have 5 people casting on you at once...more than likely you are going to eat dirt...regardless of who casts what.

BTW, I have yet to see many *chain* a 7th level spell...interrupt it maybe?

Also, did you know its counter productive for 5 people to cast SP on one person at the same time? Better off with two (once after they apple) followed by three other spells. DUH!
 

Ls Jax Ls

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Ego much?

NEWSFLASH!

You are not the better player!
First off, that comment wasn't even directed toward you. He said pots are the only way people compete with GOOD players...which is just silly. If you were better than me I would have absolutely no problem saying that you are. The fact is, you aren't. That's not ego...just the facts.

I look at these threads and just laugh.

Life IS NOT balanced, why would you expect a game to be?


Otherwise, we'd all be walking around as millionaires....

It is unrealistic to think that every template should overcome every template. "My crafter who has magery can't beat your mystic/mage.....my chef/detective/beggar can't beat your dexxer.....blah, blah, blah"

Every template has their strengths and weaknesses....it's your choice, so choose wisely.

Stop complaining. Learn or adapt. Let the developers do their work and stop crying. They need to please the grand majority of players, not a hand full of complainers that have nothing better to do. Grow up. If you are that disgusted with it, then DON'T PLAY...just QUIT.
I would expect a game to be because A GAME IS NOT LIFE. Why on earth would you compare real life to a video game? The great thing about games is that they defy the laws of the real world. Mysticism HAS NO WEAKNESS. Hence why it needs to be nerfed. I would gladly let the developers "do their work" if they were actually doing it. Mysticism has been this way for how long and still no nerf? Oh, but they sure have time to release a barely tested sorry excuse for a booster.

PvP has been neglected for YEARS now...if they let it go any further many people (including myself) will quit. Mysticism has single-handedly taken every bit of fun out of PvP. I don't think adjusting 3 or 4 spells and adding a timer to cure pots is too much to ask.
 

puni666

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Gee...I guess you forgot people doing the same with flamestrike through the years? WoD is a far cry from SP...even on SP's best day.

Again, if you have 5 people casting on you at once...more than likely you are going to eat dirt...regardless of who casts what.

BTW, I have yet to see many *chain* a 7th level spell...interrupt it maybe?

Also, did you know its counter productive for 5 people to cast SP on one person at the same time? Better off with two (once after they apple) followed by three other spells. DUH!
You can interrupt one spell sure, but multiple no. And everyone benefits from the curse's extra damage output. You know what.. you already know the reasons it's being balanced so no point in repeating it again and again.
 

SixUnder

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Lol. Yes, heaven forbid the better player actually win the fight. :bowdown:
ok smart guy.

no chiv, no mystic, no necro, no pots, no aids, no apples, no petals

1 v 1 even a avg mystic or even a good necro you are dead everytime.
 

Ls Jax Ls

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ok smart guy.

no chiv, no mystic, no necro, no pots, no aids, no apples, no petals

1 v 1 even a avg mystic or even a good necro you are dead everytime.
Well, if you go no necro against a necro I'd say you have a pretty good chance. I don't think you have any clue of what you're trying to say.
 

G.v.P

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I shouldn't skim, but if you tackle pots, you gotta tackle other stuff in the same publish: bolas, shurkiens (sp), etc. ... you know?

That's why I like choke PvP though versus open field.
 

Ls Jax Ls

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I shouldn't skim, but if you tackle pots, you gotta tackle other stuff in the same publish: bolas, shurkiens (sp), etc. ... you know?

That's why I like choke PvP though versus open field.
Bolas relate to potions how? How many people actually throw shurikens? No, PvP does not depend on pots whatsoever...it can stand alone without them (as it did for so long).
 

G.v.P

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Bolas relate to potions how? How many people actually throw shurikens? No, PvP does not depend on pots whatsoever...it can stand alone without them (as it did for so long).
You suggest pots don't require skill in your OP. Neither do bolas, or shuriken. That's how the three relate. People should use Tactics skills to dismount, not an 100% effective item. People should use the Poisoning Skill to poison at GP or higher, not use shuriken. Simple concept that you yourself posited.
 

Ls Jax Ls

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You suggest pots don't require skill in your OP. Neither do bolas, or shuriken. That's how the three relate. People should use Tactics skills to dismount, not an 100% effective item. People should use the Poisoning Skill to poison at GP or higher, not use shuriken. And I guess if you haven't noticed anyone use shuriken you don't fight many ninjas on your shard(s) ;P.
I PvP on Lake Superior, Great Lakes, Catskills, Atlantic, and Chesapeake. I've seen one person throw shurikens in the last month. Bolas are not 100% effective, you can counter them. Pots, however, you have no control over. You can't stop them, and often times you can't beat them.
 
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