The Real Problem With PvP

[Ls Jax Ls]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but it is long overdue. Pots/Consumables have been slowly destroying PvP for years now. I don't understand how such extremely overpowered items are able to be used at no cost to the user. Yes, you have to buy them but let's be serious, I can buy 10,000 of each for 1-2m which will last probably until UO comes to an end.

Nearly every single player relies HEAVILY upon pots and consumables, which take 0 skill points to use and 0 skill in PvP to use. Mage PvP is almost entirely based on being able to keep your opponent poisoned, and incapable of healing. The reason Mages are so ineffective without overpowered skills such as mysticism is because pots and consumables are taking over PvP.

This doesn't relate just to 1v1 battles. Group fighting has been greatly destroyed by these items as well. Before everyone chugged, group fighting relied heavily on teamwork. If an individual was being dumped by a group, they would almost certainly die without a cross-heal. This is no longer the case, as all the player has to do is apple, cure pot, heal pot and be able to live through any reasonable dump. This allows (which is what most guilds do nowadays) for everyone to basically fight by themselves, without any real sense of team work.

Potential fixes:

1. Increase all consumable timers to 1-2 minutes INCLUDING CURE POTS. I have no idea why cure pots do not have a timer being as they are the most commonly used pot of all.

2. Require a skill (alchemy for example) to be able to use such consumables.

3. The best option in my opinion, remove consumables entirely from UO. There is absolutely no valid reason for these being a part of the game. If they were removed, a vast number of templates would be revived, and PvP would return to its great glory.

For those who would like to see balance in UO PvP once again, look no further than ending this ridiculous trend. I can't begin to describe how much better PvP will become without consumables in UO.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

which take 0 skill points to use and 0 skill in PvP to use.

Skill? you are playing the wrong game, it isn't what it used to be.

This doesn't relate just to 1v1 battles. Group fighting has been greatly destroyed by these items as well. Before everyone chugged, group fighting relied heavily on teamwork. If an individual was being dumped by a group, they would almost certainly die without a cross-heal. This is no longer the case, as all the player has to do is apple, cure pot, heal pot and be able to live through any reasonable dump. This allows (which is what most guilds do nowadays) for everyone to basically fight by themselves, without any real sense of team work.

Yes essentially players have way to much survivability, to many ways to cheat death, is the 10 sec timer still on heal potions? if so it sounds like they need to add timers to all potions and consumables, maybe bump them up to 15 seconds?

On the last part, well that's essentially what ruined UO everyone can do everything at any time by themselves, that kills any kind of need to interact with a community.

 

[red sky]

Yes, this is true, however, I only see it stirring up a big mess if it was implemented onto the prodo shards. Maybe when they create that mythical "classic" shard or a PVP shard, then this would be feasible.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

They won't create classic as much as I would play it if they did but you just have to face it, if they saw profitability it would have been done a long time ago.

They will dangle the carrot from time to time however to keep those still hoping from leaving the game, those who weren't smart enough to cancel their accounts believing that it would ever happen.

 

[Annonymous User]

I just want to play my scribe/wrestling mage again.

Seriously, I don't totally agree with this 100% but, I do think something needs to be done.

I came back to uo about a year ago brought out my old fav. character ( see above) to find out I literally don't have the stopping power to drop anyone, well unless they make some ******** mistake that would allow anyone for the most part to kill them. What I did next was spend the next month or two building a typical archer setup. Well I am sure most can infer what happens after this. I start dropping people all the time by chaining specials and removing almost every negative effect applied to me curses, poisons, paralysis... [ I quit 3 months later I might add due to boredom (currently playing again for booster madness) ] I agree cure pots should have a timer maybe ten to fifteen seconds. I do not think it should be in the neighborhood of a minute. I also think apples should be removed, but that might be a little extreme, I think a better compromise would be a chance of failure to remove said negative effects, or a timer as well. If a timer was implemented though, they would need a way to show it considering the amount of timers that would start to be come involved, if this was the case though why not just play wow for its pvp then which is all cool down ability based ?

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

why not just play wow for its pvp then which is all cool down ability based ?

UO as it has been for a while is WoW with Diablo graphics, it lost most of what differentiated it from other games when it started copying others and diverging from it's roots.

Timers are a good way of balancing the issue though because it makes people have to time their consumption just right or it won't be up again before they die, I like 15 seconds myself.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

I like 15 seconds myself

I am fairly confident 15 seconds is already the heal/apple timer. Unless this is drastically increased, nothing is going to change.

 

[Old Man of UO]

The real problem with PvP is that it just isn't fun. The consumables argument have nothing to do with it.

Yew gate ganking, Factions, Champs spawn battles just don't do it for me. Ganking and Chest thumping just doesn't interest me. There is just too much imbalance and cheating to make it worth the effort. The old Guild Wars and even the early Chaos-Order Wars were fun. It took cooperative effort, and working with others made it interesting. It's going to take a whole new re-think to make it work for more than just a small portion of the UO population.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

The real problem with PvP is that it just isn't fun. The consumables argument have nothing to do with it.

I imagine it isn't fun at all but I wouldn't know personally.

Yew gate ganking, Factions, Champs spawn battles just don't do it for me. Ganking and Chest thumping just doesn't interest me. There is just too much imbalance and cheating to make it worth the effort. The old Guild Wars and even the early Chaos-Order Wars were fun. It took cooperative effort, and working with others made it interesting. It's going to take a whole new re-think to make it work for more than just a small portion of the UO population.

The early order/chaos days on Atlantic were the best times I've ever had in pvp, but as fun as they were even that time period had it's issues such as blue healers, still I imagine nowhere near as bad as all the crap you put up with these days.

Factions were a mistake in my opinion, and they still don't work right to this day. We had the two best factions ever and they worked just fine for a long time.

Don't count on that rethink anytime soon, this game is just a tiny revenue stream at this point, and as long as people keep paying a monthly subscription + lining up for the "boosters" which should be simple content updates as part of your subscription, then it will never be anything more than what it is.

They will just continue to convolute it with who knows what next, werewolves and vampires, until the game just becomes a terrible mish mash of every fantasy genre.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

The real problem with PvP is that it just isn't fun. The consumables argument have nothing to do with it.

I imagine it isn't fun at all but I wouldn't know personally.

This is what I will NEVER understand about these forums. If you don't participate in PvP and this has nothing to do with you, why on earth are you posting about it? I've PvP'd for at least 6 years now please don't sit there and pretend like you know more about it than I do because you went to yew gate, died, and said well that wasn't fun I'm going back to tram! PvP might not be fun for YOU, because you most certainly suck at it and never took the time to become better, but don't generalize all of us into your dungeon crawling, button mashing, repetitive style of game play. For a lot of people, PvP is the ONLY reason they still play UO, myself included.

So why don't you leave the discussion to people who actually give a ****. Thanks.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

This is what I will NEVER understand about these forums. If you don't participate in PvP and this has nothing to do with you, why on earth are you posting about it? I've PvP'd for at least 6 years now please don't sit there and pretend like you know more about it than I do because you went to yew gate, died, and said well that wasn't fun I'm going back to tram! PvP might not be fun for YOU, because you most certainly suck at it and never took the time to become better, but don't generalize all of us into your dungeon crawling, button mashing, repetitive style of game play. For a lot of people, PvP is the ONLY reason they still play UO, myself included.

So why don't you leave the discussion to people who actually give a ****. Thanks.

I don't consider modern uo to contain pvp, but don't let that fool you, I've forgotten more about real pvp then you will ever learn. I did pvp when this game was worth playing, I don't know anything about "yew gate ganking" because that crap didn't go on when I was playing.

And trammel? lol please you would be hard pressed to find someone who despises the separation of the playerbase more then I do. So why don't you try not making foolish assumptions regarding people you know nothing about.

 

[Prince Caspian]

So you are saying UO is too item-based and not character/skill based?

Check the chronometer in your DeLorean. This isn't February 11, 2003. High Seas is the expansion, not Age of Shadows.

 

[Lord Frodo]

This is what I will NEVER understand about these forums. If you don't participate in PvP and this has nothing to do with you, why on earth are you posting about it? I've PvP'd for at least 6 years now please don't sit there and pretend like you know more about it than I do because you went to yew gate, died, and said well that wasn't fun I'm going back to tram! PvP might not be fun for YOU, because you most certainly suck at it and never took the time to become better, but don't generalize all of us into your dungeon crawling, button mashing, repetitive style of game play. For a lot of people, PvP is the ONLY reason they still play UO, myself included.

So why don't you leave the discussion to people who actually give a ****. Thanks.

To begin with this is a public forum and everybody here has a right to post. If you want to have a meaningful discussion about this then you need to start your own web site that you may control with your rules.

You state your opinion as fact and if anybody disagrees with you, you insult them. You think anybody that PvPs that is not as good as you s*ck and should keep their mouth shut. I am sure that when you started PvPing that nobody was better than you as you are the best PvPer that UO has ever known or will ever know. You were L33T from day one.

So why don't you leave the discussion to people who actually give a ****. Thanks.

In my opinion this thread should be locked because unless everybody agrees with you. There is no discussion on this unless you want a one sided discussion with yourself and we should take your word on everything you say and let you run UOStratics and UO.

 

[weezer]

You want to know why people chug cure pots endlessly.... that is easy. The early days of the dp spamming dexers. If you removed cure pots, alsmost every dexer will have poison. Instead of balance we now have a one way dp poison cannon and poison fields. I really don't want to hear arch cure arguement either. It is hard to get that off if the dex guy has you poisoned and knows what to do.

Back to the origional statement though, i agree the timers are too short. Removing buff food/pots is not going to happen as they keep adding more. If you remove pots, you will need to change how often dp can be done and a few other things.

 

[Zosimus]

In warhammer online once we chug a potion we cant use any other/same potion for 3 mins. So if I chug a heath pot then I have to wait 3 mins to use same/other potions. I dont depend on pots in war so I hardly use them but on rare occasion I have to if I'm almost redlined and the other guy is also and we have no healers. I have to choose when I want to use my pots carefully. Even after death and and Im back up the timer is still in effect. So we deal with 3 min timers.

 

[Lynk]

Check the chronometer in your DeLorean. This isn't February 11, 2003. High Seas is the expansion, not Age of Shadows.

lol winner of this thread ^^

Seriously though. As UO progresses things change. Offenses get more powerful. Instead of nerfing the offense they bump up defensive abilities too.

I prefer that they continue to increase the effectiveness of both offense and defense rather than nerf one down to the other.

With every publish UO gets more and more fast paced for PvP. I like that about UO.

In summary - less QQ, more pew pew. Maybe you and Puni666 can start your own forum where everyone can come together and have a tear-fest complaining how they can't compete in today's UO.

 

[Annonymous User]

I don't consider modern uo to contain pvp, but don't let that fool you, I've forgotten more about real pvp then you will ever learn. I did pvp when this game was worth playing, I don't know anything about "yew gate ganking" because that crap didn't go on when I was playing.

And trammel? lol please you would be hard pressed to find someone who despises the separation of the playerbase more then I do. So why don't you try not making foolish assumptions regarding people you know nothing about.

I know this wasn't directed to me, but honestly my account went active in sept of 98. I have played though most of the game life span. Currently I am working on a treasure hunter and some other pvm characters, but I also love to pvp in any game. I always find the adrenaline rush of pitting my self vs my fellow man, invigorating as all hell and would never give it up, more so in the day when you died, you lost everything. None the less, I still pvp today and I understand the OP statements. I wish they would come up with a way to make pvp more interesting, and more appealing to other crowds. Most people new to the pvp scene do infact go to fel yew die at the gate and don't come back, or go to one fel champ spawn and die and don't come back. I just wonder what would happen if they approached PVM the same way, example: I just rolled a new character. I go to a graveyard and encounter a lich (damn my luck) he totally smelts the flesh off my face. I go find a healer and get a rez, now here is where the decision is. Do I go and try to get stronger and beter so I can defeat the monster that killed me at a later date, or do I just say, "oh well that monster is clearly out of balance and cheating because I can't seem to interrupt his casts and he seems to cast at some amazing speed..... ( can't be that i am under powered or doing something wrong...) That is really the logic you see in 95% of these anti pvp smear campaigns, and that is exactly what they are. Some one has a bad experience and they don't want other people to enjoy the experience that they did not, so they take a small portion of the pvp player base and try to blanket the rest of the pvp player base in to the perception that we are all e-ganstas, doing nothing but cussing, cheating, and murdering fools G.
It really isn't all like that, I wish people would try it more and not give up first time they die, it can really be fun.

One other thing, all of the people who think we are just trying to lour people out to fel for easy kills, have a bad perspective of us. Some one might get loured out to fel to kill for being weak sause, but from what i see its normaly a joke and they are left alone and normaly allowed to grab whatever they lost and return to tram. The PVP community wants good pvpers to pvp with... The rest is all jokes and fun, get over it.

( amazed how 1/2 the people make it in real life. Any sort of confrontation do they just give up lay down and die and say well im not going to be living in reality anymore its to hard)


tl;dr
pvp is an aspect of the game get over it....

p.s. sorry for my lame attempt at derailing this thread...

 

[Luke Carjacker]

You want to know why people chug cure pots endlessly.... that is easy. The early days of the dp spamming dexers. If you removed cure pots, alsmost every dexer will have poison. Instead of balance we now have a one way dp poison cannon and poison fields. I really don't want to hear arch cure arguement either. It is hard to get that off if the dex guy has you poisoned and knows what to do.

Back to the origional statement though, i agree the timers are too short. Removing buff food/pots is not going to happen as they keep adding more. If you remove pots, you will need to change how often dp can be done and a few other things.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking. You can't just focus in on one thing, like pots, because it will just throw everything out of balance. If you put a long timer on cure pots, you'll start seeing a lot more poisoners. If you take out apples, then everyone will go around with chivalry and 4/6 casting, or cleansing winds would be even more powerful than it already is and every would be mystics (if they aren't already).

If I have a complaint, it's faction arties being used in non-faction fighting situations. On my shard, faction fighting is completely non-existent. I can't think of the last time anyone defended a faction base or anything like that. So, outside of the rare chance that oranges fight over a champ or something, pretty much all pvp is non-faction, which means these overpowered arties are being used with to attack non-factioners or in pvm situations. Dumb. Imbuing helped balance this a little, but if I had a vote, this is the biggest issue that needs to be addressed (at least with potions anyone who wants to can use them).

 

[Luke Carjacker]

Oh, and I just thought of something, they did implement a change to help combat potion chuggers. You can get shatter potions that will cripple someone who is heavily reliant on potions, but I guess people would rather complain than try to use those.

 

[Old Man of UO]

This is what I will NEVER understand about these forums. If you don't participate in PvP and this has nothing to do with you, why on earth are you posting about it? I've PvP'd for at least 6 years now please don't sit there and pretend like you know more about it than I do because you went to yew gate, died, and said well that wasn't fun I'm going back to tram! PvP might not be fun for YOU, because you most certainly suck at it and never took the time to become better, but don't generalize all of us into your dungeon crawling, button mashing, repetitive style of game play. For a lot of people, PvP is the ONLY reason they still play UO, myself included.

So why don't you leave the discussion to people who actually give a ****. Thanks.

Are you quite through with foaming at the mouth? You really are too full of yourself if you post and can't take a point of view that is different than yours.

p.s.
I can only speak for myself in saying that PvP isn't fun. However, it seems that more than 80% of the UO population agrees with me. PvP just isn't fun, and that is the REAL problem with PvP not your potions.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

I can only speak for myself in saying that PvP isn't fun. However, it seems that more than 80% of the UO population agrees with me. PvP just isn't fun, and that is the REAL problem with PvP not your potions.

You just spoke for 80% of the UO population...way to be a hypocrite and contradict yourself in the same sentence.

 

[Old Man of UO]

You just spoke for 80% of the UO population...way to be a hypocrite and contradict yourself in the same sentence.

*smiles*
You really need to get over your insecurity issues.

I see you don't disagree that some 80% of the UO population doesn't like PvP. But, you can't really address the issue, so you attack the person disagreeing with you... pretty much pre-school there. Maybe your posts should come with a warning:
WARNING: Anyone disagreeing with or posting an opinion counter to Jax's opinions will be verbally abused!

 

[SDA1A]

Faction items...They should only count in a faction vs faction fight..Disabled to normal status if not engaged in that kind of fight..

 

[Lord Frodo]

*smiles*
You really need to get over your insecurity issues.

I see you don't disagree that some 80% of the UO population doesn't like PvP. But, you can't really address the issue, so you attack the person disagreeing with you... pretty much pre-school there. Maybe your posts should come with a warning:
WARNING: Anyone disagreeing with or posting an opinion counter to Jax's opinions will be verbally abused!

 

[puni666]

The consumables are almost a necessity now a days with the amount of instantaneous damage that can be dealt. There's so many different status effects and curses now that only limited templates can remove the apples became something that needed to be implemented. And the fact that all these items take 0 skill points on the field to use means any template besides players that are to stubborn to take a shield off can use them making it balanced for everyone. It's your fault if you don't take them along and if you do and they still don't help... well you need to learn to use them correctly.

 

[puni666]

Maybe you and Puni666 can start your own forum where everyone can come together and have a tear-fest complaining how they can't compete in today's UO.

How is it that I'm lumped in with this group when all I look for is balance? You know the things I point out are obviously unbalanced or else I wouldn't mention them. And you of all people should know who wouldn't able to compete if it came down to just you and me. Don't worry your crutches will be taken away and you'll be forced to walk on your own again.

 

[Aragon100]

This is what I will NEVER understand about these forums. If you don't participate in PvP and this has nothing to do with you, why on earth are you posting about it? I've PvP'd for at least 6 years now please don't sit there and pretend like you know more about it than I do because you went to yew gate, died, and said well that wasn't fun I'm going back to tram! PvP might not be fun for YOU, because you most certainly suck at it and never took the time to become better, but don't generalize all of us into your dungeon crawling, button mashing, repetitive style of game play. For a lot of people, PvP is the ONLY reason they still play UO, myself included.

So why don't you leave the discussion to people who actually give a ****. Thanks.

So you participated in PvP from 2004, a year after AoS was released.rolleyes:

UO PvP died with AoS so in other words you have never participated when UO PvP was skillful and fun.

However, it seems that more than 80% of the UO population agrees with me. PvP just isn't fun, and that is the REAL problem with PvP not your potions.

Agree, and that isnt odd at all since the ones that enjoyed UO mainly for it's classic PvP style ended their subscriptions 2003 after AoS was released.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

The consumables are almost a necessity now a days with the amount of instantaneous damage that can be dealt. There's so many different status effects and curses now that only limited templates can remove the apples became something that needed to be implemented. And the fact that all these items take 0 skill points on the field to use means any template besides players that are to stubborn to take a shield off can use them making it balanced for everyone. It's your fault if you don't take them along and if you do and they still don't help... well you need to learn to use them correctly.

You are obviously among the group that has ruined PvP. If you think they are a necessity, you need to get better.

So you participated in PvP from 2004, a year after AoS was released.

UO PvP died with AoS so in other words you have never participated when UO PvP was skillful and fun.

Everyone I know who played pre-aos and still PvP post-aos, will say that it takes more skill to play a mage now than it did back then. Notice I am ignoring dexxers because, well, they don't take skill period. The reason everyone says oh PvP was so great back then is because it was simple, and easy. You never adapted so you became bad at PvP, and then decided it wasn't fun anymore. Guess what? UO has been post-aos just as long as it was pre-aos. You've been playing the wrong game for 8 years.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but it is long overdue. Pots/Consumables have been slowly destroying PvP for years now. I don't understand how such extremely overpowered items are able to be used at no cost to the user. Yes, you have to buy them but let's be serious, I can buy 10,000 of each for 1-2m which will last probably until UO comes to an end.

Nearly every single player relies HEAVILY upon pots and consumables, which take 0 skill points to use and 0 skill in PvP to use. Mage PvP is almost entirely based on being able to keep your opponent poisoned, and incapable of healing. The reason Mages are so ineffective without overpowered skills such as mysticism is because pots and consumables are taking over PvP.

This doesn't relate just to 1v1 battles. Group fighting has been greatly destroyed by these items as well. Before everyone chugged, group fighting relied heavily on teamwork. If an individual was being dumped by a group, they would almost certainly die without a cross-heal. This is no longer the case, as all the player has to do is apple, cure pot, heal pot and be able to live through any reasonable dump. This allows (which is what most guilds do nowadays) for everyone to basically fight by themselves, without any real sense of team work.

Potential fixes:

1. Increase all consumable timers to 1-2 minutes INCLUDING CURE POTS. I have no idea why cure pots do not have a timer being as they are the most commonly used pot of all.

2. Require a skill (alchemy for example) to be able to use such consumables.

3. The best option in my opinion, remove consumables entirely from UO. There is absolutely no valid reason for these being a part of the game. If they were removed, a vast number of templates would be revived, and PvP would return to its great glory.

For those who would like to see balance in UO PvP once again, look no further than ending this ridiculous trend. I can't begin to describe how much better PvP will become without consumables in UO.

I see you make no mention of throttling connections to level the playing field...even though connection is your best advantage. (you ping 7 and challenge those with 100+ pings to duel instead of field fight...e-peen much?) Why is it you only include things that would have a negative effect on others, and not on yourself? (for instance...you use healing stone...so consumables are no big deal to you in the field)

I am sick to death of all your damn crybaby nerf this, fix that posts...because each and every one has a selfish motive behind it...and almost nothing at all to do with fairness of play.

Keep crying, perhaps you will once again gain the attention of Mesanna on an issue that really is not an issue...

Is this a troll? Hell no, I am just tired as hell of all your one sided *poor me* posts. Fact of the matter is, you do not like being beat...and whenever you DO get beat you run here with another crybaby thread.

I have a suggestion, play the game as it is or just quit...because I for one am tired as hell of seeing all your selfish threads.

This isn't about fairness of play...this is about you not accepting the fact that your 7 ping doesn't *pwn* everyone anymore. (a GREAT example is our fights...in which I flat out told you "good fight" and you returned with a you suck...pots suck...pvp sucks...the game sucks...all because you got owned)

WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

I see you make no mention of throttling connections to level the playing field...even though connection is your best advantage. (you ping 7 and challenge those with 100+ pings to duel instead of field fight...e-peen much?) Why is it you only include things that would have a negative effect on others, and not on yourself? (for instance...you use healing stone...so consumables are no big deal to you in the field)

I am sick to death of all your damn crybaby nerf this, fix that posts...because each and every one has a selfish motive behind it...and almost nothing at all to do with fairness of play.

Keep crying, perhaps you will once again gain the attention of Mesanna on an issue that really is not an issue...

Is this a troll? Hell no, I am just tired as hell of all your one sided *poor me* posts. Fact of the matter is, you do not like being beat...and whenever you DO get beat you run here with another crybaby thread.

I have a suggestion, play the game as it is or just quit...because I for one am tired as hell of seeing all your selfish threads.

It's ok restroom, you'll be back to being a bad mage soon. Let it pour big guy.

 

[Lord Frodo]

This isn't about fairness of play...this is about you not accepting the fact that your 7 ping doesn't *pwn* everyone anymore. (a GREAT example is our fights...in which I flat out told you "good fight" and you returned with a you suck...pots suck...pvp sucks...the game sucks...all because you got owned)

WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

Congrats Restroom. Did you flush him when you were done?

 

[Lord Frodo]

Everyone I know who played pre-aos and still PvP post-aos, will say that it takes more skill to play a mage now than it did back then. Notice I am ignoring dexxers because, well, they don't take skill period. The reason everyone says oh PvP was so great back then is because it was simple, and easy. You never adapted so you became bad at PvP, and then decided it wasn't fun anymore. Guess what? UO has been post-aos just as long as it was pre-aos. You've been playing the wrong game for 8 years.

This is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard. PvP pre AoS was all about skill so your buddies sucked at PvP pre AoS and now they have all thier items and think they are the best, just like you. You would have never servived pre AoS PvP.

 

[Vaelix]

This is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard. PvP pre AoS was all about skill so your buddies sucked at PvP pre AoS and now they have all thier items and think they are the best, just like you. You would have never servived pre AoS PvP.

Yeah those 2 Shot Hally Mages took a whole lot of Skill.

 

[Luke Carjacker]

Everyone I know who played pre-aos and still PvP post-aos, will say that it takes more skill to play a mage now than it did back then. Notice I am ignoring dexxers because, well, they don't take skill period.

You didn't even need to say anything and I knew it would boil down to this. Pure mage is the only "real" pvp template. Nerf dexxers because that doesn't take skill. Nerf Mysticism because that doesn't take skill. The only template everyone should be allowed to play is pure mage, and if you can't do that then you suck.

Same old lame repetitive argument.

You know what, this is a multi-player "sandbox-type" game. The beauty of it is that people have tons of options and they can mix an match whatever skills they want to come up with the combination that suits them best. The people that argue "pure mage, pure mage, skill, skill, blah, blah" need to go find another game, where everyone gets to choose from a few character classes that are set in stone.

I've been playing since well before AOS and you know what? I've been bored with pure mage for 5+ years. I love when new skills come around because I can change around my templates and try out new stuff. I believe that's a key reason why vets still play this game after 10+ years. If I was stuck playing the same template and using the same strategies without change for the past 12 years, I'd have quit long ago from boredom. New skills and templates are what get me interested in PvP each time they come out - not because they are more powerful (sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't...anyone heard of throwing?) but because new skills require new templates which in turn require new strategies and styles, both on offense and defense, both 1v1 and in teams.

We hear the same "pure mage is skill, everything else is crap" arguments every damn day over general chat. It got tiresome after the 10th time, and it's even dumber after the 100,000th time. You want to fight where everyone else is forced to run the exact same template? There are plenty of other games where you do exactly that.

 

[Viper09]

This is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard. PvP pre AoS was all about skill so your buddies sucked at PvP pre AoS and now they have all thier items and think they are the best, just like you. You would have never servived pre AoS PvP.

Yeah those 2 Shot Hally Mages took a whole lot of Skill.

...how far pre-aos are you talking about here Vaelix? Perhaps you two are talking about completely different times in pre-aos. lol

 

[Vaelix]

...how far pre-aos are you talking about here Vaelix? Perhaps you two are talking about completely different times in pre-aos. lol

Yes Hally Mages are a Certain Era of Pre-Aos.. but Technically Fall into the Category of Pre-Aos as a Whole.

And Apparently, *ALL* of Pre-AoS was the only time when actual skill was required of its players for PvP (According to Some posters here..)

I for one know Hitting 1 Spell then standing next to someone for a possible swing sure is challenging and requires Hours upon Hours of Practice and Experience... or "Skill" for a better word..


.........

 

[Merion]

What the heck is the OP talking about? Seriously, try to remember the "good old days" without glorifying them - PvP was never as balanced as it has been for the last year. Ok, Mystic might need a slight nerf (only a little bit), but that's it. Back before AoS, PvP was not balanced.

I seriously wonder about all the mages whining of late - I play a lot of dexxers and a few mages. I get killed more often on dexxers and kill more folks with the mages. And I'm a lot better at playing dexxers - go figure...

 

[Amren]

Healing potions should work the same way as they do in WoW.

1 potion per battle
1m cool down outside of battle.

Healing and Mana potions function the same way.

This means you have to pick and chose when to use em. Not spam them away with macros.

 

[Viper09]

Yes Hally Mages are a Certain Era of Pre-Aos.. but Technically Fall into the Category of Pre-Aos as a Whole.

And Apparently, *ALL* of Pre-AoS was the only time when actual skill was required of its players for PvP (According to Some posters here..)

I for one know Hitting 1 Spell then standing next to someone for a possible swing sure is challenging and requires Hours upon Hours of Practice and Experience... or "Skill" for a better word..


.........

True that. Perhaps we need a better era scale than simply saying pre-aos pvp since that does encompass a lot of horribly unbalanced PvP, lol.

 

[copycon]

Yeah those 2 Shot Hally Mages took a whole lot of Skill.

You are missing the point of the statement. I thought I would clarify for you (and people like you) what is meant by referring to the "skill" that was required pre-AoS as compared to now.

The difference in PvP "skill" between eras is a result of the mechanics of the game that were changed. The best examples of these that I can think of are stat/skill power scrolls, magic armor/weapon modifiers and the addition of certain skills to the game which in turn has caused massive imbalances between PvP character classes.

The fact that these did not exist pre-AoS made the field equal on all fronts, meaning that the only method to gain an advantage over your opponent was through player skill or many vs one situations. More specifically, chaining multiple spells and other attacks together in a timed manner to deal enough damage to your opponent before they could heal or escape.

These days, there is a huge variance in character armor, weapons, stats and developed skills (+/- 20.0 points I believe?) which ultimately resulted in changing what it meant to PvP before AoS entirely. These changes meant that player skill became much less of a factor simply because a player could deal massive amounts of damage with a single attack. Therefore, winning or losing a battle was affected more so by how much gold a person has to invest in their items over any other factor.

 

[puni666]

You are obviously among the group that has ruined PvP. If you think they are a necessity, you need to get better.



Everyone I know who played pre-aos and still PvP post-aos, will say that it takes more skill to play a mage now than it did back then. Notice I am ignoring dexxers because, well, they don't take skill period. The reason everyone says oh PvP was so great back then is because it was simple, and easy. You never adapted so you became bad at PvP, and then decided it wasn't fun anymore. Guess what? UO has been post-aos just as long as it was pre-aos. You've been playing the wrong game for 8 years.

You're just full of ignorant statements.

You really think not 1 dexer is skilled? There's a huge difference between a skilled dexer and just a standard newb attempting to learn pvp starting at the basics.

Seems to me you're fussy about something.

 

[puni666]

LRC's over powered please remove it. Mages can heal, poison, cure, paralyze, and deal damage with multiple elements indefinitely please remove it from the game. My dexer can only use aids to heal.. that's it, and people take those every time I get killed. Waa Waa Waa. Snooze...

I don't really understand how giving everyone these optional tools is ruining pvp.

 

[Vaelix]

These days, there is a huge variance in character armor, weapons, stats and developed skills (+/- 20.0 points I believe?) which ultimately resulted in changing what it meant to PvP before AoS entirely. These changes meant that player skill became much less of a factor simply because a player could deal massive amounts of damage with a single attack. Therefore, winning or losing a battle was affected more so by how much gold a person has to invest in their items over any other factor.

So basically, Having to Understand, and effectively counter a Much wider variety of abilities, spells, and ect..

Takes less overall skill and understanding of the Game, Gotcha.

Or.. Could it be that Most Pre-AoS PvP was So god awful slow and simple, and almost anyone (Skill or No) could pvp and it seemed more balanced.

Where as Today's PvP Requires a Much more thorough Understanding of the Game as a Whole to PvP, and that Understanding not limited to One Set of Spells.. Magery.

 

[UOKaiser]

This is what I will NEVER understand about these forums. If you don't participate in PvP and this has nothing to do with you, why on earth are you posting about it? I've PvP'd for at least 6 years now please don't sit there and pretend like you know more about it than I do because you went to yew gate, died, and said well that wasn't fun I'm going back to tram! PvP might not be fun for YOU, because you most certainly suck at it and never took the time to become better, but don't generalize all of us into your dungeon crawling, button mashing, repetitive style of game play. For a lot of people, PvP is the ONLY reason they still play UO, myself included.

So why don't you leave the discussion to people who actually give a ****. Thanks.

He obviously has the right to post. Reason being the changes you propose effect PVM and not just in a small way. Unless the changes only effect PVP and not PVM in any way then he shouldn't post. But when proposing changes you must look at all aspects of gaming and never nerf another form of gaming in a attempt to improve a perticular gaming option.

 

[Heartseeker]

So basically, Having to Understand, and effectively counter a Much wider variety of abilities, spells, and ect..

Takes less overall skill and understanding of the Game, Gotcha.

Or.. Could it be that Most Pre-AoS PvP was So god awful slow and simple, and almost anyone (Skill or No) could pvp and it seemed more balanced.

Where as Today's PvP Requires a Much more thorough Understanding of the Game as a Whole to PvP, and that Understanding not limited to One Set of Spells.. Magery.

You think it takes skill now? lol

What is it like 20 to 40 pvp on most shards?

Pre AOS most people did. That's like tens of thousands compared to now.

Ya you're the best of the bunch.

 

[Vaelix]

You think it takes skill now? lol

What is it like 20 to 40 pvp on most shards?

Pre AOS most people did. That's like tens of thousands compared to now.

Ya you're the best of the bunch.

The Game requires a Much better Understanding of Mechanics, Tactics, Abilities, and Such, opposed to back then.

Its Much easier to Distinguish the Rabble from the Elitists Now a day.

Todays PvP Requires the PvPer to have more Overall Potential for Skill Development as you have 8 Years of Expansions, New Abilities, and Various other forms of additional content that you will need to Learn, Understand, and Counter.

Where as, Pre-Aos is limited to a Very small amount of Viable tactics, Slower Paced PvP, and Simpler Combat.

Why do people consider Slower, Simpler PvP, with less than Half of the Tactics Existing today, a better example of Player skill, compared to today's PvPers Average Skill.

 

[Heartseeker]

You think it takes skill now? lol

What is it like 20 to 40 pvp on most shards?

Pre AOS most people did. That's like tens of thousands compared to now.

Ya you're the best of the bunch.

The Game requires a Much better Understanding of Mechanics, Tactics, Abilities, and Such, opposed to back then.

Its Much easier to Distinguish the Rabble from the Elitists Now a day.

Todays PvP Requires the PvPer to have more Overall Potential for Skill Development as you have 8 Years of Expansions, New Abilities, and Various other forms of additional content that you will need to Learn, Understand, and Counter.

Where as, Pre-Aos is limited to a Very small amount of Viable tactics, Slower Paced PvP, and Simpler Combat.

Why do people consider Slower, Simpler PvP, with less than Half of the Tactics Existing today, a better example of Player skill, compared to today's PvPers Average Skill.

The same reason people consider chess more skillful than playing shooters.

While the pvp was slower, it was far more evenly matched.

Stats and skills were available to all, at no cost.

When items came in skill was not necessary.

If you have better armor and 30-40 more hit points, skill are a mute point.

While UO is faster, it is a click fest like a lot of other games.

There is to many items in the game that have killed many skills.

While there is variety, most skills are just watered down where everything is easily countered with items.

Hld, hla, hit area and so on are just a confusing bunch of stats and complicate things way to much.

Id do understand why UO went that way, old game and all but the changes weren't good ones, judging by the number of players pvp'ing.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

You think it takes skill now? lol

What is it like 20 to 40 pvp on most shards?

Pre AOS most people did. That's like tens of thousands compared to now.

Ya you're the best of the bunch.

I am convinced that it takes skill. PvP has become more and more complex over the years. There's special moves, weapon spwitching, spells, bandage, potions, apples, grapes, trapped boxes, and other stuff to be considered and selected from within a fraction of a second. AND there's a vast number of possible attack strategies you have to counter nowadays. Whereas pre-AoS you just used one weapon and clicked. It takes a lot of training to learn to coordinate all these things in the heat of combat.

The reason why less people PvP today is that Trammel DOES exist. Most people do not PvP unless they have no choice. If they have a place where they can retreat and do everything in UO without risk, they will do it. (I'm half-way one of those people.) Over this they unlearn how to PvP which takes them off the PvP market for good.

And before anybody starts scoffing at me again: Yes, I am experienced in PvP and I am not too bad at it.

 

[Vaelix]

The same reason people consider chess more skillful than playing shooters.

While the pvp was slower, it was far more evenly matched.
Todays PvP is pretty evenly matched, outside of a few abilities/ect


Stats and skills were available to all, at no cost.
Some Systems have been put in place to make items cheaper, with Faction Arties and an Imbued Suit, you can make an easily vaible pvp suit for rather cheap.

When items came in skill was not necessary.
-Mage/+Mage Combo *IMO* is one of the few things that keep mages viable, as they need the extra skill because Mage/Eval is outdated.


If you have better armor and 30-40 more hit points, skill are a mute point.
This makes no sense.. However, You can be just as evenly suited

While UO is faster, it is a click fest like a lot of other games.
On a mage temp i Keybind almost everykey on my Keyboard for spells.. Not really sure how this can be used against PvP in an argument..

There is to many items in the game that have killed many skills.
Like what? Outside of Cleans/Prot against Necro(Or everything) almost all skills are still viable(that were in the first place) in PvP, with the exception of LJ.

While there is variety, most skills are just watered down where everything is easily countered with items. Items and Consumables still have a Huge Impact in PvP, your actual skill will still (Obviously) be what wins most of your fights. (IMO)

Hld, hla, hit area and so on are just a confusing bunch of stats and complicate things way to much.

Id do understand why UO went that way, old game and all but the changes weren't good ones, judging by the number of players pvp'ing.
Honestly it sounds like (Exactly like it always is) You are an Older player who never adapted to the what PvP Evolved to and are looking for excuses for justify it.

 

[Lady Michelle]

The Real Real Problem With PvP
Is know one will stand still, and do nothing so I can kill them