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The One and Only Pre-UOR Thread! Update -- 3 Polls of Results

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I

imported_The-Noni-Trader

Guest
I dont say pub 15... there are a few different calls for similar things...

One is for a pub 15 shard [with or without trammel... I dont know... I dont pay much attention to that]

One is for a Pre-Renaissance shard... [ie before trammel, without malas, without ilshenar, with difficult skillgain etc etc]

And the other one seems to just be a version of siege without item properties....

I am in support of a Pre-Renaissance shard :)
 
I

imported_Girana

Guest
i want a shard Pub 15 (factions) without Trammel, ish,malas,... and 2 Chars/Account
 
J

James LS

Guest
I'd LOVE to see a UO:R shard go in, something along the lines of Pub 15 (Before runic hammers, powerscrolls and all that crap). When factions/Warring was freakin amazing, i had more fun in a day back then than i've had since Pub 16.

With or without trammel, didnt bother me back then, shouldnt/wont bother anyone who wants a PreUO:R/UO:R shard for the pvp. Afterall i only ever went there to buy weps to use on my tank (yeah a REAL tank that used a wep for damage, not this ***** version of a tank thats around now days).

If they had left seige alone, not given it AOS or any of the crap it would have remained the perfect "old school" shard, instead of being a dumb "wonna be old school shard with all the crap no one wants".

EA should launch a server similar to test sosoria with the UO:R code (there actually wasnt that many bugs back then, all the bugs that have been fixed since then were INTRODUCED since then too - remember that.) and just see what the response is, if its alot (which it will be) make the shard permenant, its not exactly alot to ask is it.
 
N

N20

Guest
I think a Uo:R shard or a pub15 shard with power hour, factions, no runics no powerscrolls and no trammel would be awesome, Id be happy with anything pritty much prior to AoS. I think they should at least put up a test server with the old rule set and see what kind of response they get.
 
S

Syko

Guest
This is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen on stratics. First off I want to give thanks to the person who started it all.

From someone who plays and runs T2A freeshards: Yes, players WOULD flock back to EA servers to play their old UO again. As stated earlier freeshards are unreliable, they can go down at anytime, there can be GM corruption. But most of all, not one person has duplicated OSI's old PvP system and game mechanics to a tee. Why? Because they can't, nobody has such a memory or 100% correct resources. There are a lot of good freeshards with good T2A systems, but they can't match, freeshards cannot recreate what OSI made, it is literally impossible. Most of us playing on freeshards want nothing more than to find a shard with these things:

Reliability. We don't want our work to go out the window because the server administrator got bored or didn't recieve enough donations to keep running the server.

Accuracy. No matter how many freeshards are created, no matter how hard anybody tries, we will never have a completely accurate T2A freeshard, I garuntee it.

Staff. We want to know for a fact the staff isn't favoring so and so, or that they aren't tweaking their own players, or we're not going to get banned because an administrator is having a bad day.

Players. We want a shard with massive amounts of players to play with, freeshards have thousands on thousands on thousands of players playing, scattered throughout almost 200 freeshards or more. Some shards have decent size playerbases, but none will ever be able to match how much OSI did, and would have if they created a T2A server. What people don't understand is, a freeshard could have 1000 players online constantly, if that exact same shard would officially sponsered and put on the EA server lists, the playerbase would double, if not triple or more.

There are a few freeshards that provide all of this, but not near as well as EA could if they put up an official pre-trammel shard. Yes, players on freeshards would flock from there to EA in a matter of seconds to play the good old days of UO once more.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I would never play a freeshard for the simple reason I would not trust them. They have no problem stealing from EA (and thats what it is) so why would they have problems stealing from you? Maybe putting some software on your pc to log everything you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point. Maybe there are other players who play neither OSI or Free shards that would come back for an official t2a shard!


<blockquote><hr>

Also you just prove my point that people would not leave the free shards they play on and have to move to UO's server where they not only have to pay but follow rules. It will never happen.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't really see how I 'prove' anything.

My point was more along the lines of, how can you claim to know the opinions of free shard players, when you don't play them, or admit to knowing anyone who does?

Those players who have posted in this thread and play on freeshards have all said they would gladly pay to play OSI again.
 
W

wickedness

Guest
come on guys, the newest expantion... are you kidding? lets keep riding the horse that got us as far as we have.. simplicity and community. people didn't leave UO for EQ due to their pvp system or lack thereof or pvm, they left because it was the 1st big new 3d mmorpg ever.. so lets try and strengthen the strongest points of UO instead of trying, and failing, to emulate the others.

in essence a solid pre UO:R shard.

IPY gave a taste of what one come produce, learn the lessons from IPY's failings and benefit from what potential is possible from it's concept.
 
Z

Zeitgeist

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


IPY gave a taste of what one come produce, learn the lessons from IPY's failings and benefit from what potential is possible from it's concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

IPY wasn't even close to a pre-UOR server. I can only thing of one or two that come close. The best I've seen is UOG's.
 
L

Lord Faden

Guest
I've been away from the game for approximately a year now. Tried to enjoy what EA had offered in terms of updates and failed. My greatest of all memories playing UO was in the pre-UO-R days. I'd chew my right arm off if it mean't that I could revert to playing on a server of said times. Have EA mentioned anything about the possibilities of offering this type of server?
 
S

SerinaTWT

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Add my Vote. I am COMPLETELY for a "Pre-Ren" Shard. I, too, know of many players who would return for it.

As far as the landmasses are concerned. I would start with Felucca and T2A. If the Pre-Ren shard is as successful as I think it will be, then you can add Ilshenar, Malas, and Tokuno as needed under the same rules.

A lot of people see Pre-Ren as a time of lawlessness...anyone who is being honest knows that is only a piece of the pie.

I see it as a time when players truly interacted and worked together. There were communities that nothing today can compare to. It was a time when your success could not be bought, it had to be earned....not only through your skills....but through your interaction with players. You had to have allies to support yourself. It was truly an online world for you to immerse yourself in...

The current UO is no longer an online world. It is a game....and more and more, its a single player game where success is bought and sold on eBay. This is the wrong path in my eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]


WELL SAID!!! Add my vote too please!

IMHO, it is the ability to choose how we want to play, rather than being forced into specific templates, shards, rulesets, etc., that has made UO successful. UO has always added to what we already had in the game (although we may not always like it). We've seen an increase in land masses, additional skills added, new shards added- even a shard with Fel only ruleset. I feel that adding a shard of this type would continue to add to what UO offers. It is not taking away from today's UO or going back in time, but rather adding another option for us to choose from.

P.S. To the poster who used the Coke/New Coke comparison, PERFECT!
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>


IPY gave a taste of what one come produce, learn the lessons from IPY's failings and benefit from what potential is possible from it's concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

IPY wasn't even close to a pre-UOR server. I can only thing of one or two that come close. The best I've seen is UOG's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna have the same conversation again?

I really don't mind.

Oh, and if you wanna talk about "not Pre-UO:R", then we'll speak of the shard you mentioned. They don't even CLAIM to be Pre-UO:R. It's AOS complete with neons, bods, and beetles, and a few Post-UO:R things thrown in. So Pre-UO:R omg.
 
Z

Zeitgeist

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


Oh, and if you wanna talk about "not Pre-UO:R", then we'll speak of the shard you mentioned. They don't even CLAIM to be Pre-UO:R. It's AOS complete with neons, bods, and beetles, and a few Post-UO:R things thrown in. So Pre-UO:R omg.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you should check out UOG's Rebirth and you will find out they very much do. omg.
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
Well that's not what you said, was it.

But actually, that shard isn't Pre-Ren either. It's Pre-T2A.

Also, do you mind backing up your slander of IPY?

Seeing that the best you can do, and have done, is use a weak excuse, I'd suggest you bone up on your UO era knowledge a bit before you make posts on the subject.
 
D

Dor of Sonoma

Guest
Ilshenar?

Malas?!

Ilshenar has nothing to do with UO, though. It was simply recycled into the game when UO2 (or whatever the heck it was) was cancelled in 2000, along with all of the lovely robots and other mechanical anachronisms and aberrations.

As for Malas...it represents AoS in its purest form...to me, anyway. I won't even visit Malas in the current game. (katooie!)

What's wrong with the Lost Lands? :)
 
Z

Zeitgeist

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Well that's not what you said, was it.

But actually, that shard isn't Pre-Ren either. It's Pre-T2A.

Also, do you mind backing up your slander of IPY?

Seeing that the best you can do, and have done, is use a weak excuse, I'd suggest you bone up on your UO era knowledge a bit before you make posts on the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh please, I thought someone such as you, of such high intelligence, would be able to figure it out.

Pre-T2A is Pre-Ren, by the way. Pre as in before, Ren as in Renaissance. "Pre-Ren," before the Ultima Online Renaissance patch.

Slander, that's a big word. Too bad you can't slander a "thing." Nice one. And you need to learn what slander actually is, my statement was not false.
 
D

Dor of Sonoma

Guest
It would be nice if this thread could be kept free of back-biting.

Rather defeats the purpose, dontcha think? :)
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
You still haven't answered my question. Nice attempt to deflect attention from your bull with a bunch of bull though.

By the way, Pre-T2A and Pre-Ren are two very different things. If you play the shard you're mentioning, you'd think you would have caught onto that by now. But you've proven over and over again that your function here is to troll, not to make valid points. But, of course, if Pre-T2A IS Pre-Ren, then AOS is Post-UO:R - or, you could grasp the basic fact that different eras are given different names, and not attempt a vain fumble with the dictionary definition of simple prefixes.

Once again, please explain why IPY wasn't "even close" to Pre-Ren.
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
I'd love nothing more, Dor. But you've got a professional troll operating in here, and I'm not just going to watch him spout some stupid ass [censored] without challenging him to back it up - which, of course, has been done in another thread, where he failed miserably.
 
Z

Zeitgeist

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

You still haven't answered my question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it doesn't even make sense. You can't slander an object. And if IPY was a person, I didn't slander it.

It wasn't like a Pre-Ren shard. Statsloss was removed and there was no Trammel. Like I told you in the other thread, the gain system was different, passive gains, easier skill gain, all kinds of stuff. I quit a couple months after, and don't remember it all. And who was it that made the post on IPY's forums, about it "not being pre-ren?" Was it you or Ravatar?
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
Again, I think you need to bone up on your knowledge of UO eras a bit. No matter what you're trying to refer to, there was no trammel in any Pre-Ren ruleset.

If your claim is that IPY was nothing like Pre-T2A, as you seemed to be claiming earlier, then there was no statloss then. But, of course, you tend to just switch back and forth to suit your own needs.

As far as gains, how could we make them exactly the same? Nobody has the OSI data from 1999. However, you claim that our gains were faster - which is funny, because our gains were notoriously slow compared to just about every other free shard. So which is it?

But, as was said previously, and you seem to forget - I said there were a few things slightly changed, as we felt they improved the quality of the shard in general. A few things. The shard was, and still is, one of the most accurately and straightforwardly 1999 shards every created.

So, again:

How was IPY not "even close" to a Pre-UO:R server?
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
Oh, and by the way

<blockquote><hr>

Because it doesn't even make sense. You can't slander an object. And if IPY was a person, I didn't slander it.

[/ QUOTE ]

IPY wasn't an object.

Put the dictionary down. Pulling definitions and taking single words out of posts, applying a dictionary definition to them while ignoring the context they were used in, and using this as a reply instead of a valid response backing up your claims makes you look like a ******.

re·tard1 Audio pronunciation of "******" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-tärd)
v. re·tard·ed, re·tard·ing, re·tards
v. tr.

To cause to move or proceed slowly; delay or impede.


v. intr.

To be delayed.


n.

1. A slowing down or hindering of progress; a delay.
2. Music. A slackening of tempo.

(But I'm not music, Azaroth!)
 
X

xVicex

Guest
I'm of course totally in favor of this. I'm not as stringent as some in what ruleset there is. I have only 2 real criteria.

1. Fel Ruleset throughout the game world.

2. No Insurance.

...

3. Not Siege/Mugen Ruleset. I only add this becasue some point to them as the solution for those asking for this type of a shard. Which for anyone who has played on them knows they are not. They are a different ruleset and where different even before Tram was released.

Other then that I am up for anything. I can live with AOS items..elves..ninjas..flying pink elephants for all I care.



The interest in such a shard as the thread starter and many others have shown is high. The retention after release of players such a shard will be decent enough that it will be viable and make money. IMO it will rival some curent servers. I wouldn't be surprosed to see it join Atlantic/Pacific/Great Lakes/and a couple others as the most populated.

Just have to keep pushing for it and keep it alive on the forums.

I get this tingly feeling that after Mondains Legacy is released this idea may become the main topic of discussion amongst the developers.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

The downside to this is it won't be 100% Pre-UOR, but I would rather have 90% Pre-UOR over 100% of Today's UO.



[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed!

BTW your dutch language filter must not be working, looking at one of the screen shots. Not that I care, but translated in English that could get you banned for foul language or sexual harassment :p
 
Z

Zeitgeist

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Again, I think you need to bone up on your knowledge of UO eras a bit. No matter what you're trying to refer to, there was no trammel in any Pre-Ren ruleset.

If your claim is that IPY was nothing like Pre-T2A, as you seemed to be claiming earlier, then there was no statloss then. But, of course, you tend to just switch back and forth to suit your own needs.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have a problem reading? I don't believe I said Trammel was Pre-Ren. And Pre-t2a is pre-ren, we've already been over this, what is wrong with you?

Get off your high horse about how great you thought your PRS was, because you're still nothing.

<blockquote><hr>


As far as gains, how could we make them exactly the same? Nobody has the OSI data from 1999. However, you claim that our gains were faster - which is funny, because our gains were notoriously slow compared to just about every other free shard. So which is it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I was refering to the passive gain system IPY had. Ie, the way skills such as Anatomy, Eval, Med, etc raised.

<blockquote><hr>


But, as was said previously, and you seem to forget - I said there were a few things slightly changed, as we felt they improved the quality of the shard in general. A few things. The shard was, and still is, one of the most accurately and straightforwardly 1999 shards every created.


[/ QUOTE ]

Who knows? Anyway, that's because the most authentic Pre-Ren shard was from the 1998 era.

<blockquote><hr>


How was IPY not "even close" to a Pre-UO:R server?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we've been over this about four times. As for your ****** comment below, it just shows how stupid you really are. Your fun little empire is over.

And if you're going to use a powerful word such as "slander," you should really know what it means.
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

It wasn't like a Pre-Ren shard. Statsloss was removed and there was no Trammel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks to me like you're the one with the problem reading. Your own sentences. Honey.

Pre-T2A and Pre-UO:R are, and especially in the context of this "conversation", very different things. I've explained this several times, and, in your own words:

"we've already been over this, what is wrong with you?"

Beyond that, you still haven't answered my question. You've just been reduced to foaming at the mouth and throwing insults around.

Good try, but you lose. Now shut up before they lock this thread.

Keep in mind that you can flame all you want beyond this post, but it's become repeatedly clearer you've got no intentions of doing anything but resorting to the same old [censored], and certainly no intentions of backing up what you've said about IPY. So don't expect me to come in and ask you the same questions again, or point out that you quite obviously resort to pathetic vitriolic [censored] when you've got no point and no argument.
 
X

xVicex

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

The downside to this is it won't be 100% Pre-UOR, but I would rather have 90% Pre-UOR over 100% of Today's UO.

[/ QUOTE ]

<blockquote><hr>

Agreed!

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed!
 
D

daclown

Guest
This is so freaking pointless.

No, IPY was not a complete replica of pre uor uo. It shouldn't have been. There were problems with pre uor. For example, for most of it there were no stat locks. Can you think of one logical reason why there shouldn't be stat locks? If the development team chooses to develop a pre uor server, problems such as this will continue to arise. Naturally, as the IPY staff did, I assume that they will make decisions based on what they think will be best for the server. I assume there will be stat locks, I assume you will still have the new crafting menus, I assume that people will be able to make runebooks which also did not appear until near the end of pre uor. Adding these things in no way deters the server from being pre uor as people now see it.

This is Pre Uor.

1. Instant hit and precast
2. no special moves of any kind
3. No Palidens, Ninjas, Artifacts
4. The old magical item system with easier to obtain vanquishing weapons.
5. No item insurance
6. No poison corrison on weapons
7. No Trammel.

That is basically the basis for the pre uor that people are talking about. IPY met all those standards thus it was basically pre uor.
 
A

Avalonia

Guest
I think the majority of the Pre UO:R bandwagon has nothing to do with truely being Pre UO:R. They simply would like to see the world the way it could have been if UO would have stayed UO instead of becoming Diablo 2 when AoS came out. The idea of getting ganked in Felucca doesn't appeal to me. However, the idea of carrying a Vanquishing weapon again and feeling the fun of finding a Vanquishing weapon is something I would love to have again. If it was simply a shard that was based on an all Felucca ruleset with no item insurance and a bunch of pvp action but had all the other expansions and was based on the current item system then I think that no one would bother to play it. If people really wanted something like that then they could simply go to Felucca turn off their item insurance and say its Pre UO:R.

The basic point is that you can't go back again. There will never be a truely Pre UO:R shard. Nor should there be. There are a lot of improvements that have been made to the game since then, but there are also a lot of mistakes that have been made. If you went back in time not only would you lose the mistakes but you would lose the improvements as well.

Oh, well they are at it can they bring back the true 2d graphics and kill the crappy graphics that blead through Third Dawn into the 2d client. I would love to see copper and white horses again and the old model deamons...that was some great artwork as compared to this current crap. One of the biggest problems with this game right now imho is that they scrapped the truely 2d client in return for this 2 1/2d artwork crap.
 
H

hollylight

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Why though? :)

When the playerbase is clearly behind it, it makes good sense. Given the support the number 1 player shard(which i wont name) has, an OSI one of similar era or before would have closer to double, which alone would make up 10% of the current subscribers

[/ QUOTE ]

why ? you wanna know why? ill tell ya why? you ever think it just might be a embrassing thing if a 5 yea old game set was more popular than the one htey have now that would be admitting a mistake was made-)

if it is ever done trust me 50%- 80% of the people will play tere

that is why can you handle the truth -)

*awaits the day to kill peeps 2 vrs one naked on foot*

what realy cool is the people who think it is too hard would prob be pretty good pvps tere and if they are not wont cost them 100k night to pvp
 
M

moXer

Guest
I am convinced that the only reason people are against a pre-uo:r shard is because they are afraid people will leave their already low-population server for the new one.

Seriously, if all the pvpers left those servers for a new one there would be NO thrill left. It would be complete trammel everywhere. Now a lot of the people who play UO would problaby enjoy this, however there are still people left who enjoy the thrill of being able to be pked...even if it is just minor at this point.


Seriously. If you were on a dieing server and the idea of a new server came up that would draw a portion of your playerbase away, would you be for it?

The sad thing is these people are completely selfish. These same people whined a lot years ago to get trammel and other changes made. Now, they are complaining about the other vet players whinning about what we had back.


Also, I don't see why the current developers would take an ego-hit over the success of a pre-ren shard. Most of them probalby weren't even around when some of the changes went through to ruin the old UO.
 
D

daclown

Guest
I'd like to remind you that UO wouldn't be dying if the development team hadn't released one bad expansion after another dating back to uo3d.
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
There are a lot of reasons why UO is dying, even if very slowly.

Not all of them have to do with expansions, or even things developers have done.

The trick is how you respond to the problem. Do you actively attempt to find solutions, or do you ride a corpse down a cliff by doing the same things over and over again.
 
D

daclown

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

There are a lot of reasons why UO is dying, even if very slowly.

Not all of them have to do with expansions, or even things developers have done.

The trick is how you respond to the problem. Do you actively attempt to find solutions, or do you ride a corpse down a cliff by doing the same things over and over again.

[/ QUOTE ]

The game got worse instead of better. Becuase of bad expansions. People quit becuase of this. If the development team had put in good expansions, and actually did what they needed to do with the client/server packages the game would be doing fine.
 
S

Spiggs

Guest
Surely though it's the nature of UO to always appear to be dying, or on a downwards slide.
It's not your typical game, it's not even really your typical MMORPG. It's unique in many ways, and that's why (IMO) it has more of a revolving door problem.
Ever since I first played UO way back in the day (98/99) I've never really known anyone to be 'wowed' by UO ... generally it's more a case of 'hey this is neat, that's neat, this is neat, oh yeah I can do THAT!'
All though out it's history I have seen influxes of players, who leave shortly afterwards. They try it out, but they don't really want this UO, they want a game that wows ... not that is open and non-linear. IMO this is why we have so many people who have played since day one to present, or for x amount of years. On the other hand ... those same people who are looking for the WOW effect of a game are also not the same people who will commit years and years to it ... as we all know the WOW feeling never lasts long and they get bored.

How is this relevant to Pre:UOR ...

... well it's very relevant because it explains the "Golden Age" in part ...

UO:R was the beginning of a set of releases that appears to be more designed to appeal and attract those players who want wowing. IMHO UO:R wasn't the real beginning of the end, the implementation of a non-PVP facet is a wonderful idea in theory, but it did unbalance the game in so many ways. Simply look at the term that was used for Trammel for so long ... "carebear land" ... Trammel was the start on the slippery road not because it was designed to be safe, but because in reality it made the game "EASY"!! Simply removing PVP on an identical land left UO so unbalanced that Felucca was bound to die, and all that it stood for ... which is not just PVP.

Prior to this split we all had to bond together and form communities. Not simply hang out with the same 5-10 guys, but get to know a vast amount of people. Names meant something then. Sometimes you saw a name and dread filled your heart, or you saw a name and you ran to find the person. It wasn't always bad. When you needed armour, you would go to the GM Smith, not log in as your mule, or simply walk around a million vendors selling everything. Again names where important. You would go out of your way to visit the location that your favourite smith sold from ... he/she'd actually be working there too usually, not just throwing up techno-colour vendors! With the lower cash-rates, and harder skills gains too, we all would call on a smith we 'trusted' to repair our outifts. The same goes for a multitude of skills, not just smithing, but smithing is a good example. Look at Treasure Hunters ... it was a single dedicated character template you had to work hard to build, not something anyone could do.

Now to touch briefly on the PVP ... yes there was more of it. Yes there was ganking, but it wasn't always, infact in my own experience, very rarely, was it malicious. Think about the old-school "Great PK's" from your shards. Again names! There were many famous PK's at the time. Real old-school duellers, the guys who would get a kick out of single-handedly killing 3x blues, because the really were that good. These guys were the ones that after killing you, would rez you, rarely clean loot you, and many times chat afterwards about PVP skills. When was the last time ANYONE had that happen in game ??
I have seen a great many times when the same 'famous PK' has been hired to give noto's a damned good spanking, or even brought into RP plots (because of famous name).

So, sticking with the PvP, yes at times we got stuffed and lost everything or ganked to death. What happened though ... did we quit whining ... HELL NO!! We talked to others, we improved our skills, we banded together, sometimes sought revenge too. Basically though, we improved and adapted ourselves, learning from mistakes.
Yes, I always hear how people quit because of the ganking ... but I have never once REALLY SEEN IT HAPPEN!! I have still yet, in all my years of playing, to actually find proof of someone quitting because of PvP ruining their game (not same as lack of PvP ruining game
). I've heard the rumours, but that is all. I've known people to leave back in the day because the game itself didn't suit them, because it was too hard, because it needed too much time (read lazy player), but never once did I hear "I'm quitting because of PK's" or "Dave quit because PK's ruined his game".
I should change this statement actually, I never heard that Pre:UOR, and mostly not during UO:R until 2000 or 2001. At this point, I found the RP'ers quitting as the new wave of PvPers (those after UO:R) were griefing RP scenarios. As the largest part of the player base had moved to Trammel, the community had died. Trammel led to the single-player attitude that ended up seeping into all of us somewhat. So when these poor RP'ers came looking for help against the griefers ... the community had crumbled. The old school PvP'ers had moved on because there was no-one to PvP. The friends of old had moved on and could not be found. The community had crumbled so much, that nobody was even there, let alone able to help.

So this is why we need a Pre:UOR shard.
We want this game back. It's not just the PvP, the whole 'community' aspect of it.
We love UO for the community. That's why many old vets log in and just wander around aimlessly talking to old friends. This game might WOW us from time to time with it's 'new innovations' but the old way is gone, the community, the fact that we HAD to be community.
This is also why so many of the free shards never do that well. All the real, true, old-school players are still logging into EA's shards, or alternatively stalking Forums like stratics waiting for the inevitable release of a 'classic' or Pre:UOR shard. We've tried the free shards from time to time, enjoyed playing them somewhat, but they aren't the same. They generally miss the 'professionalism' that a production shard has. They miss a little bit of the control thatis had over a production shard. Mostly though, nearly every free shard I have played has been ruined by a 'gimmme'. Quick skill gain, extra cool stuff, massive rewards, increased skills .... whatever it is, it's always been what UO:R started, the same thing that ruined UO for many vets ... there's an extra 'easiness' offered to attract new players.

This also why Siege slips also .... it wasn't Trammel, it was the rest of it. All the 'new patches' to make the came easier to solo.

It's time to wake up and smell the coffee now.

True UO addicts want this challenge back. Even though we've done it all, it's just that it's so easy to do everything now.
Having a seperate shard really does defeat the point that it will hurt other production shards games. Yes the player base might drop, but it's going to basically be the non-productive players who leave anway. The disillusioned guys who still cannot stop playing and supporting the game they love. The 'moongate gankers' and whatever will not all flood to an old-school shard. They don't want to lose their glowing clothes, powerful arties, and easy to under stand weapon stats and uber-spells. They will of course try it ... but seeing as classic UO is not a solo game, they will either return to their production shard, or become part of the community.



Well ... that's my 2cents-worth. I felt it worth saying as i feel we missed a few aspects of that, and to me it's important to explain how and why the Pre:UOR game was better for so many.
 
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imported_Azaroth

Guest
Spot on.

UO isn't going to wow anyone, it needs to play to its strengths. It hasn't been doing that.

Obviously for a lot of reasons. Concentrating on profits and being a bit short sighted, not enough experience behind the scenes in some cases, and because moving an old game forward is hard to do without messing up, ESPECIALLY when you're NOT concentrating on your strengths.

These guys have to face facts. UO is what it is (or.. was). You're not going to turn it into WoW or EQ with any kind of success. And while they've widdled their customerbase down to basically only people who would tell them this is a good idea, it's not.

But the funny thing is that they can have thier cake and eat it too. It's pretty simple to keep the production servers moving forward and keep pleasing the audience they've created for themselves over the last five years. But they can also have all of their old players back, too. It starts with one classic shard, and goes from there.

<blockquote><hr>

Yes there was ganking, but it wasn't always, infact in my own experience, very rarely, was it malicious. Think about the old-school "Great PK's" from your shards. Again names! There were many famous PK's at the time. Real old-school duellers, the guys who would get a kick out of single-handedly killing 3x blues, because the really were that good. These guys were the ones that after killing you, would rez you, rarely clean loot you, and many times chat afterwards about PVP skills.

...

So, sticking with the PvP, yes at times we got stuffed and lost everything or ganked to death. What happened though ... did we quit whining ... HELL NO!! We talked to others, we improved our skills, we banded together, sometimes sought revenge too. Basically though, we improved and adapted ourselves, learning from mistakes.
Yes, I always hear how people quit because of the ganking ... but I have never once REALLY SEEN IT HAPPEN!! I have still yet, in all my years of playing, to actually find proof of someone quitting because of PvP ruining their game (not same as lack of PvP ruining game ).


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this is interesting. It's gonna really take me back here.

See, back in the day, there absolutely was a lot of PKing going on. Not as much as newbies nowadays hear from other relative newbies, but there was. And I'm talking about 97, early 98 here - when there truly wasn't any real penalty for PKing, except not being allowed in most towns, etc.

I remember these guys, I was the guy getting PKed in Deciet and then making friends with them. That kind of thing just went on.

Then it became popular. The problem with this is that you had all of the newbies seeing the PKing, watching it be popularized and made "cool", and then imitating what they saw as "cool". The complication of this is that these kids failed to realize that the oldschoolers doing these things did them with some measure of class.

You just can't expect that nowadays, because the people doing the PKing are the kids who saw it popularized by the REAL PKs.

Does this mean a classic shard wouldn't work? No, but the whole point of it would be to market it to veteran players, and not the players signing up to UO for the first time.

The PKing would be merciless, especially compared to what people playing normal UO have been used to. That's why I think it'd be best to redesign the ruleset a bit, in one of many manners I've explained previously, but even if it's not redesigned, it'll still thrive. People won't go in expecting Trammel. They'll understand what they're getting into, and the majority of the people joining such a server wouldn't be the type to be driven out by PKing.

It could, however, hurt it. Especially with scripting, group autotargetting, etc. When people start to realize they're being PKed by skilless kiddies running what are basically automated scripted bots, they'll start to get pretty pissed. Far more pissed than they'd be if they were PKed by a human, and not some code with a 14 year old behind the screen who got it off of his buddy.

As far as Siege, I dunno how many times that can be brought up. Some people just refuse to believe what we're asking for has ANYTHING to do with something beyond removing trammel. The last thread I posted in suggested that a Pre-UO:R shard was a pipe dream and we should all just play Siege. Because it doesn't have trammel, and we can still enjoy all the "new neat stuff".

Some people just don't get it, and never will.
 
M

MattehM

Guest
This is also the reason that they need to keep putting out new lands to keep the people playing or they get bored like people do with WoW.
 
S

Spiggs

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


You just can't expect that nowadays, because the people doing the PKing are the kids who saw it popularized by the REAL PKs.

Does this mean a classic shard wouldn't work? No, but the whole point of it would be to market it to veteran players, and not the players signing up to UO for the first time.

The PKing would be merciless, especially compared to what people playing normal UO have been used to. That's why I think it'd be best to redesign the ruleset a bit, in one of many manners I've explained previously, but even if it's not redesigned, it'll still thrive. People won't go in expecting Trammel. They'll understand what they're getting into, and the majority of the people joining such a server wouldn't be the type to be driven out by PKing.

It could, however, hurt it. Especially with scripting, group autotargetting, etc. When people start to realize they're being PKed by skilless kiddies running what are basically automated scripted bots, they'll start to get pretty pissed. Far more pissed than they'd be if they were PKed by a human, and not some code with a 14 year old behind the screen who got it off of his buddy.



[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, with a Pre:UOR ruleset, these 'cool kids' will probably be turned off by traditional PvP. For one the skill development will be siginificantly slower than it is today, the skill levels available will be lower, special moves will be removed, and most importantly ... all the fancy pantsy special equipment will be gone too!
These guys are going to have to not only learn the skills, learn the 'old ways' but also will not be able to e-bay all they need PvP.

This is in fact where a classic shard comes into it's own. These 14 year old PvP'ers will log in thinking "It's cool to be old school" then they are going to walk out of town and get butchered by a rabbit!!
These same people who have come to pretty much epitomize modern PvP have very little patience and will-power ... which is why PvP is so equipment based.
If you look at the evolution of PvP from the UOR period you will see that there was a initially great deal of classic 'skilled' PvPers. Then there was a massive, and I mean massive, influx of lame PvP gank squads. You would see them everywhere in Felucca ... this was the new Trammel players 'getting brave'. At this point, from what I remember anyway, all the good PvP'ers moved purely to Chaos/Order (with the odd WAR guild which was a dying trend).
Can you remember the C/O guilds would gate in, then gate out if no one was around to fight. During this time, from my experience (stressing that), the number of 'old school' PKs slid down to probably less than a handful, due to the vast amount of Trammel blue gank squads. Even though a lone 'old school' red could trounce a 10 man trammel blue gank squad ... it ruined the game! Having come from Trammell (where everything including skill gain is nearly free) their PvP skill was poor! Unlike PvM the best gear and skill points doesn't make up for 'real skill', reactions, planning and the whole PvP requirement.
This IMO was the major sliding point for PvP. Those who were new to the game wanted PvP to be just like PvM ... the better your gear, the better you did.
Slowly over time this has become true.
Look at the Resist Skill for instance. All the old players know just how hard resist was to GM for such a long time. It took a great deal of time, effort and funds to GM. Now we have 'Resist Suits' .... equipment that replaces skill.
Why ??
Funds have been so readily available in UO for such a long time that we can rule this out of the equation.
So what's left ... time &amp; effort ... something we all know new players do not want to put into the game to get benefits.


Moving back to the original point ...

If we look at the scenario of a classic shard, ALL players will have to put in time and effort to get to the upper stages of character development. There would not be uber-equipment that gives you an edge, there will not be 'ready made' character kits to buy ... there will just be you, 100gp, a sword and that rabbit!

This is why the state of PvP on a classic shard would be far better than it is now. The current PvP'ers would inevitably take the 'easy' route (remember I complained EASY is what destroyed UO for many....) and stay on a regular production shard, and continue to haunt Yew Moongates.
We will have a new crop of mature, civilized PvP'ers coming through the ranks, and probably a return of some of the old greats too.


I'd like to briefly touch on free shards too, right now, as no doubt it's on the tip of someone's tongue! Many free shards try to get you to hit the ground running, and become as involved in the game as quickly as possible. This has led to all manner of little tricks, instant skill gains, crazy gain rates, high skill character templates, and all the other crap I've seen on most of them.
EA have the edge here as we will be PAYING to play a game where rate of advance is SLOW and immediate returns and benefits (compared with today) are LESS .... this is because we who will play the classic Pre:UOR shard are playing it for a LOVE OF UO!
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
Actually, IPY was the exception to that rule. The gains were slow, nothing was free, and you even started with that old 100 gold and a dagger.

Also, about the kids being turned off when trying the old PvP and the old ruleset - maybe. But the VAST majority of the population will be from past users, and even people playing freeshards right now.
 
S

Spiggs

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Actually, IPY was the exception to that rule. The gains were slow, nothing was free, and you even started with that old 100 gold and a dagger.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I put 'nearly all' in my post.
 
M

moXer

Guest
Sigh.... i was convinced Az was the only one who could make a good post for supporting a pre-uo:r shard. Now my assumption has been ruined.

Thanks :-/.. hhee... nice to see that there is a big support for a pre-ren shard.


My pre-ren experience? I started out just like every other newbie. I was a miner in minoc and still remember when my first pack-horse(named packy) was killed. I was so upset because i saved up for more then a day just to afford him!!!!

As i learned more about the game i started getting sword skill up at the minoc spawn north of the city. We had our occasional pks there, but we eithe rran to the guards or thawrted them. I still remember huge groups of blues hunting reds trying to keep the miners safe... or the skinners who were killing at the minoc spawn. That was fun.

Yes, i became a pk myself at some point... but i never left a ghost stranded.. i always gated or resed them if i could... looted their gold and regs and ussually left the rest.... But i was an early pker.. back before statloss... before it was "hip"... i remember when statloss went in... i became a noto pker - meaning i would pk till i got 4 kills then macro off the 5th.. or if i died i would sit macroing the 5th kill off till i turned blue.

Anyways.... order/chaos is what most people will do on a pre-ren shard. Pvp as a pk is fun.. and can be profitable.. but pvping against other organized guilds is the BEST. IPY is the best example of this. There were 2 or 3 large pk guilds... and believe me.. with no statloss IPY had a LOT of pks... however there were 5 or 6 large o/c guilds and even more small groups. There were some pretty nasty o/c fights while i was there... and it only became dull when people stopped logging on due to hardware issues.

I refuse to play another freeshard at this time. One, because most offer super-fastskill gain.. and two.. i cant force myself to make another char knowing the server could crash at anytime.

However, if an official pre-ren shard came back i would be on it in an instant.


BTW. i apologize for the piss-poor spelling and the typing errors.... im at work and im not suppose to be surfing the net so i dont have time to edit my post!;)
 
M

MattehM

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


I refuse to play another freeshard at this time. One, because most offer super-fastskill gain.. and two.. i cant force myself to make another char knowing the server could crash at anytime.

However, if an official pre-ren shard came back i would be on it in an instant.



[/ QUOTE ]

same with me:)

I would not mind a UOR shard also though as i enjoyed factions so much and pre ren don't have that:( anything will do for me though hehe
 
W

wickedness

Guest
how many of you would preorder, or pay for the development of the shard, up front in order to facilitate it's creation? the devotion of thousands of people to an out of date 2d pixelated game's golden age, outcry on boards, polls, etc doesnt seem to be enough, perhaps the only way to get through is with the only thing they understand, the all-mighty dollar?

oh, and as stated by prior posters, yes i was one of those kids who watched the classy PKs such as Nighthawk and such and got onto the player-killer bandwagon, and later became rez killing dry looting douchebags, however that generation of PK's has grown up, had our testicles decend, got laid and learned the examples of our player killer early herritage. although there is a 3rd generation of douchey PKs currently roaming Fel, I doubt they will leave the comfort of item insurance, ethies and arties and trade it all for a suit of bone armor and a GM halberd like I, and so many others would. I'm sure in the beginning you'd have a rash of purple pot bombers and town poisoners, etc, but after a while the shard would balance out, and youd see more ressurections and gate to brit type behavior than most of you expect.

p.s. i am presently playing a PRS and will return to EA and purchase 2 accounts the second they announce a classic shard.
 
S

Spiggs

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Sigh.... i was convinced Az was the only one who could make a good post for supporting a pre-uo:r shard. Now my assumption has been ruined.

Thanks :-/.. hhee... nice to see that there is a big support for a pre-ren shard.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks MoXer ... your compliment makes me blush!!

<blockquote><hr>

how many of you would preorder, or pay for the development of the shard, up front in order to facilitate it's creation? the devotion of thousands of people to an out of date 2d pixelated game's golden age, outcry on boards, polls, etc doesnt seem to be enough, perhaps the only way to get through is with the only thing they understand, the all-mighty dollar?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wickedness ... although this is a great idea to drum up interest, how many people do you think would actually trust them to deliver what we are pre-paying for?

I would imagine that a copy of the old coding could be whipped up pretty quickly. Backups are probably out of the question, due to the age, but there would be hard copies (I hope) and in my experience half a dozen old team members probably have a 'personal copy' ... which could be 'bought back' for a small sum. Modern hardware would be able to run the source with little problem and probably blow away any type of server-lag that we used to have ... hell, even a celeron desktop could probably host code from 1998/1999!!!

I really don't know how we could get this rolling ... would be nice if the current devs could maybe point us in the right direction of whom to hassle. That would be far better than us banging our heads on the brick wall, like we have for the past 5 years, ranting on stratics, and pleading devs who probably have no control over a project like this.
 
I

imported_Azaroth

Guest
First of all, if they had the audacity to ask people to fund the Pre-UO:R project up front, I'd laugh in their faces and never touch UO on an EA shard again, no matter what they did.

It's REALLY enough that there are so many people begging them to take their money, and willing to return after all that's gone on. People that'd even return now after all of the talk of classic shards recently has been flat out ignored. You think if there was this much clamor about elves or something on the boards there'd be SOME developer response? You bet there would be.

Now, if they asked me to front a percentage of the project, and I'd receive an equal percentage of the profit in return, I'd jump on that like a fifteen dollar hooker.

Guess how likely that is.

But it's just that, people who enjoyed this time period of UO have been treated like fourty-fifth class citizens for years now. I KNOW it's hard to have people tell you that what you've done, and what you're doing, sucks. But get over it. You can't please everyone with one approach, no matter what business you're in. Put the egos aside and take our money.

<blockquote><hr>

I really don't know how we could get this rolling ... would be nice if the current devs could maybe point us in the right direction of whom to hassle. That would be far better than us banging our heads on the brick wall, like we have for the past 5 years, ranting on stratics, and pleading devs who probably have no control over a project like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, they should be pretty flattered that some people still even try after putting up with this for years.

Fact is, there was some discussion on it within the offices at Redwood awhile ago. Probably not anymore. It seems their official EA survey that returned the famous 12% numbers shut everything down. I won't get into how [censored] moronic that is, because I've been over it plenty of times.

The basic fact is that it's probably not gonna happen. As I've said, EA wouldn't hire more personnel to handle the creation or maintenance of this server, whether there were one, two, three, five. It'd be on the already overworked backs of the current developers, and they want NO part in that.

With EA owning the game, there will be no classic server. There will, in fact, be no turn around for UO. EA's management of the game is its downfall, and WILL kill it.

May I be wrong? Sure, might be. But I don't really think so.

Of course, we're left to pure speculation because they've got a "no talking about this" rule over there, unless it's to make brief flippant comments at town hall meetings.
 
W

wickedness

Guest
well then christ, what can we do?

strike? have existing account holders close then accounts? we need a new course of action because it is evident the tactics being employed over the past 5 years are not effective.
 
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imported_The-Noni-Trader

Guest
Beautifully put spiggs [Re the Wow factor]

Mind you... UO initially Wowed me... with the amazing range of things to do...

Now... that wow factor that got me.. is almost completely gone...

Yeah sure you can do all those things.. but if you do those things and not THESE things... then you will end up playing singleplayer... and THAT is not something I pay 12.99 a month for ;) I'd much prefer to buy a new outdated singleplayer computer/console game every month.
[Which I have started doing... we're down to 3 accounts now from 7 to 11 and the 3 left are my wife's]


I'll be back with a vengeance if once again we are allowed to play the varied world of UO as a multiplayer game... until then... its not for me.
 
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