REMOVE Tactics requirement ( poll )

[Lord Gandalf]

So you think people fighting the same 2-3 templates every day is fun?

Im not sure on which shard ur playing and where u get those resources, but i got 16pvpers on 3 different shards, 3 different sampires, and 12 different pvpers, each and every one of them serves for a particular reason.

30skill points from tactics, 15sec disarm immunity, 6secs block duration, 20sdi cap vs 25sdi on a pure mage instead of (15/30), mystic/necro spells updates, in addition to the new arties will defo get some new templates into the game ^^

 

[drcossack]

Im not sure on which shard ur playing and where u get those resources, but i got 16pvpers on 3 different shards, 3 different sampires, and 12 different pvpers, each and every one of them serves for a particular reason.

Atlantic. Which is 99% parry mages, holy fisters, and archers.

Requiring even reduced tactics is going to open up the game? Yeah, no. It never should've been introduced in the first place. When I reactivated my account in 2007, it was a month after the Tactics change had gone through. LS, which had been VERY active and fun two years prior, was a ghost town. Was it solely because of the tactics change? Of course not - people move on. But it played a large part.

Whether or not the templates are viable is dictated by the meta. But when the meta only gives you a small # of choices, what exactly is wrong with wanting more VIABLE templates to choose from? Before Publish 46, you saw A LOT of templates: "traditional" Melee Dexer, Mages (Tank, Wrestle, Necro), Deathstrikers, Archers, etc.

 

[Revan123]

Im not sure on which shard ur playing and where u get those resources, but i got 16pvpers on 3 different shards, 3 different sampires, and 12 different pvpers, each and every one of them serves for a particular reason.

30skill points from tactics, 15sec disarm immunity, 6secs block duration, 20sdi cap vs 25sdi on a pure mage instead of (15/30), mystic/necro spells updates, in addition to the new arties will defo get some new templates into the game ^^

Yeah... except only about one or two will become meta and two current meta templates (focus parry mages and Archers) will be phased out of the meta. In the end, most will play Holy Fisters (as many are already) or Mystic Mages.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

@Bleak

Let's compromise and at least make the tactics and mele/ranged requirement operate off modified skill, and fix bushido to do the same. Those two fixes right there will help a lot with moving in the right direction of template diversity.

 

[Revan123]

@Bleak

Let's compromise and at least make the tactics and mele/ranged requirement operate off modified skill, and fix bushido to do the same. Those two fixes right there will help a lot with moving in the right direction of template diversity.

It's really not enough man. Only the complete removal of a tactics requirement will give various templates the extra skill points they need to become viable. Lowering the tactics requirement by 30 and making it applicable with modified skill will only help the templates marginally, and allow only the richest people with super insane jewelery to have even close to viable templates (which still won't be viable, because anyone that plays one of these temps is already pushing their gear & skill inc to the limit). I can tell you, as a top level pvp'er that has created, played, and been good at many various templates, that a marginal change will not be enough to make non-wrestle parry mages competitive. The tactics requirement has to go entirely. This is an absolutely necessary step to balance the game and add competitive diversity.

The biggest argument against this is that by removing the tactics requirement, Good players will make OP templates and abuse this. This argument is wrong on so many levels. First off, the notion that we shouldn't add or change anything because "good players will exploit it and come up with gimp templates" is absurd. That's like saying that poison ticks shouldn't exist because good players can exploit them in mage duels by cycling. The potential that any one player can achieve is one of the hallmarks that makes UO such an amazing game. Furthermore, good players will exploit anything that is even semi-useful. That doesn't make it OP. Also, non-good players exploit things too. How many noobs were running around with disarm archers, using disarm splinter weapons? Usually good players will start using something and then other players follow suit. If you consider this a problem, than you consider any change/new content being added a problem.

Secondly, Non-wrestle parry mages are so far behind wrestle parry mages, that a tactics requirement removal alone will not even come close to making non-wrestle parry mages OP. No matter what possibility you can think of, if you have a weapon in your hand, you are still susceptible to the massive amounts of damage that Archers and Dexxers do (and will still do), particularly if you are disarmed; and anyone that is good at PvP knows, that a weak defense makes for a weak offense, particularly on a mage where getting disrupted more means casting less.

 

[805connection]

Another answer that has nothing to do with "Tactics requirement"... I'll explain why again.......

You can do all that now..... even without skill point increase items you could drop Parry for tactics... I already explained why no one plays that template, it has nothing to do with tactics... it's 100% because of 2 things.
#1) Focus spec This is why all TANK/Archer-Mages are "Focus Mages" It's counter-productive to drop spell damage (by choosing bushido) for a chance at Weapon damage (which can miss) however, tank-mages now would just run tactics & use AI...... um.. this is what they do, which is nothing new...... Shocker, I know...

2) Archers.... Guess what's going to happen when Archery gets adjusted & non-focus SDI gets a slight increase? -I'll be playing my bokuto mage again....
template in case you think I'm lying for some reason.

my template =
120 Mage (+30)
120 Eval (+10)
120 Resist
90 swords (lol-mage weapon... shocker, I know) there's no point investing the extra 30 points, if Disarm effects Weapon-skills & Mage weapons the same F***ing way... (I suggested a change to this too btw)
90 tactics
120 bushido
60 med (yeah... it has 60 med - pointless, I know... I could very easily drop med and get something like Parry, Poisoning, or Scribe, by using antique rings/bracelets in that suit... (I only have +20 magery between my imbued venom & 50 EP ring)

real skill + (*) modified. Mark of travesty (mage-eval & +15/5 magery ring/bracelet Imbued...).... the best part, is that template was possible before the "global loot upgrade" So tell me how exactly did tactics become required to "Fix" bokuto mages?


Basically the only thing the Tactics requirement did, was it made weapon skills up to 120.0 skill point investment USELESS without tactics... No template would EVER pick up a weapon skill without tactics, especially not mages (excluding wrestling, Wrestling can't be disarmed AND it doesn't require tactics lol) because Auto-attacks are achieved by mages with Mage-weapons + Magery, and "Auto-attacks" aren't enough to kill anyone to make any dexer template effective...


If Tactics has to stay required.... it should probably only be required for ranged weapon special use even though archers wouldn't drop tactics anyway.
I just can't find any reasons that says Tactics should be required... obviously no one else can either.

Here is what I run,

I have been running a bushido Mage for a long long time, here is how my skills look.


Bushido | 120
Evaluating Intelligence | 120
Resisting Spells | 120
Swordsmanship | 120
Magery | 115
Tactics | 105
Parrying | 100

 

[CovenantX]

@Bleak

Let's compromise and at least make the tactics and mele/ranged requirement operate off modified skill, and fix bushido to do the same. Those two fixes right there will help a lot with moving in the right direction of template diversity.

I wouldn't call that a compromise, However, it should have been that way since skill point increase items came out. All skills should be treated equal, modified or not.

That'll make some jewelry & other items with certain skills more useful, people would actually run with more than +30 of a "weapon skill" on their suit, because you would still get their secondary weapon special if it were based off of modified and/or real skill, as opposed to real skill or it's not accessible.

 

[CovenantX]

Here is what I run,

I have been running a bushido Mage for a long long time, here is how my skills look.


Bushido | 120
Evaluating Intelligence | 120
Resisting Spells | 120
Swordsmanship | 120
Magery | 115
Tactics | 105
Parrying | 100

I assume that 105 tactics is actually 90.0 real and just bumped by a +15 tactics jewel? (you'd get more parry-chance going above 100 parry).
I think I've fought you on Atlantic, can't remember the characters name though... but yea, it's a fun template... is it "OP"? not even close.

Though it would be slightly more competitive when the SDI gap is ranging from 20-35% instead of 15-40% after this publish, I'd drop Parry for either scribe or Alchemy. (I'd do scribe, most people would do Alchemy)

 

[transcendent]

C'mon Bleak. Why do you have to kill the fun for everyone?

 

[transcendent]

This publish had so many people excited at first. Everybody had all types of plans for new templates. They tease us with template diversity. Then everybody's hopes were crushed by keeping the Tactics requirement. So sad. Got my hopes up all for nothing.

 

[transcendent]

The Devs made a big deal about how they were gonna listen to player feedback this time, and that what makes me even more upset. Because clearly they are not listening. They just ignore the results of this poll and what people are saying.

 

[cobb]

Giving only 30 extra skill points and calling that the solution to template diversity seems like some type of sick joke

 

[CovenantX]

So sad. Got my hopes up all for nothing.

Haha, and to think I actually did shadowguard trying to get some gold together and or the odd-ball missing piece to finish some suits for this.... at least a few mage templates would be slightly more useful...
but that's because of the focus spec change... tactics isn't doing anything for that the templates have already been made...


I got an idea, Let's give +5 strength to weapon skill masteries because there isn't enough Artifacts/items that give Strength Bonus!

 

[Great DC]

All these changes listed and still the current meta is going to remain the same. Only difference after this is archers get a slight nerf, an even less of a slight nerf to fister templates. Wrestle parry mages will still be the most played template along with fister templates. Mystic got a very slight buff mostly due to sdi bump not mysticism itself, which wont be enough to change the meta cause its still weak defensively. All in all nothing will change other then the game window size. Its really sad that the devs are so clueless about how the game actually works.

 

[chad]

Players try to explain that the PvP changes are mostly trash on Test Center and Bleak gives some weird reply about a "process" and "meta". (Nice buzzwords m8) Ask him to elaborate and he goes afk, lol. Donnie brings up that Doom is super easy and Bleak runs down the hall to get Kyronix to log in so they can get upset over one guy soloing the "new" Doom.

 

[CovenantX]

Players try to explain that the PvP changes are mostly trash on Test Center and Bleak gives some weird reply about a "process" and "meta". (Nice buzzwords m8) Ask him to elaborate and he goes afk, lol. Donnie brings up that Doom is super easy and Bleak runs down the hall to get Kyronix to log in so they can get upset over one guy soloing the "new" Doom.

Exactly how it played out on TC yesterday, just goes to show you how out-of-touch with UO people are... (including the devs)

 

[cobb]

I know they are busy coding, but sometimes I wish the Devs were required to spend at least 1 work day per week to just play UO.

 

[kelmo]

Let's give @Bleak a break. He has the whole game to look at.

 

[chester rockwell]

Fix the champ spawn rates!

 

[Smoot]

Let's give @Bleak a break. He has the whole game to look at.

if he has a whole game to look at, why was so much time devoted, an entire publish, for complicated changes when the same result could have been achieved very simply.

This publish does more harm to the game than good, and looks to me like it was done for the sole sake of having something to work on.

I would have rathered if the very simple problems that this publish was meant to fix were fixed in that same manner. Simply, so that yes, Bleak could have used his time for "the whole game".

From this publish we got:

1 useable doom arty

a mess of complicated changes to achieve what could have been done in 5mins:

corspeskin-curse shouldnt have ever stacked

lessen the effectiveness of parry on a mage character (could have just changed the formula when combined with a magic skill)

Nothing in this publish makes me want to log into UO anymore than before the changes. it actually makes me less likely to log in, and more likely to clear out accounts.

Maybe if less time were spent on these very simple issues, more time could have been spent so the bigger play window, and new store items were less riddled with bugs.