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REMOVE Tactics requirement ( poll )

Do you want to remove the Tactics requirements for specials?

  • Yes

    Votes: 72 56.3%
  • No

    Votes: 56 43.8%

  • Total voters
    128

Kiss Of Death

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I like the new incoming changes, at least most of them, but I think the pvp community wants to go with NO tactics requirement for specials , of course warriors who want to have more dmg will have tactics... but this will let people have many more templates as it was back in the day!!

Vote for this!
 

Lord Gandalf

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Imagine the amount of bok mages, and nox dexers out there when ur giving them 90free skill points, or even sampires going with healing scripts running in the background, i disagree, 30-60 tactics requirement is alright.

But I vote that tactics no longer require real skill to perform specials.
 
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Fridgster

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Imagine the amount of bok mages, and nox dexers out there when ur giving them 90free skill points, or even sampires going with healing scripts running in the background using scripts, i disagree, 30-60 is alright.

But I vote that tactics no longer require real skill to perform specials.

Not to be offensive but do you use a sampire? Concept is doing the max damage to leech back max health. With that said why would any sampire drop tactics?
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Not to be offensive but do you use a sampire? Concept is doing the max damage to leech back max health. With that said why would any sampire drop tactics?
They wouldn't. There isn't a single pvm character that's going to drop tactics if it's no longer required for specials. It affects damage too much, and you WANT to do more damage so you leech more back.

tbh, I'd rather play my sampire than a whammy thrower, simply for the amount of mana a samp can leech. Get rid of the leech penalty for ranged characters!
 

SugarMMM

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Back in the day I thought we needed to have tactics for any fighting skills like swords/fencing and so on? I also thought we needed arms lore for blacksmithing and evaluating intelligence for magery right?

I know I put in many many hours of training up those skills.
 

Kiss Of Death

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Back in the day I thought we needed to have tactics for any fighting skills like swords/fencing and so on? I also thought we needed arms lore for blacksmithing and evaluating intelligence for magery right?

I know I put in many many hours of training up those skills.
U could perform specials with 0 tactics
 

Cutter

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yes.

The hiding/stealth requirement for DS should be rolled back while we're at it, and lets take it a step further and bring back precasting. (holding spell with special move, DS, or w/e toggled.)
 

CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Back in the day I thought we needed to have tactics for any fighting skills like swords/fencing and so on? I also thought we needed arms lore for blacksmithing and evaluating intelligence for magery right?

I know I put in many many hours of training up those skills.
Back in the day, from around 2007 and up, yes... no tactics before 2007, & Pre-AoS specials were 20% chance of your total Anatomy skill but only two-handed weapons had specials.

swords/axes = concussion
Maces = crushing blow
fencing = paralyze
wrestling = disarm/stun-punch *required anatomy or arms lore (depending on which special)


Eval-int was never "required" for magery. you just don't do much damage without it but you can still use the spells.
 
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CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Yes.

The hiding/stealth requirement for DS should be rolled back while we're at it, and lets take it a step further and bring back precasting.
I think that's going a little too far.... doing that would only cause everyone to pick up ninjitsu. you know, kinda like Alchemy & Parry =X

Besides, the Hiding & stealth requirement for Death strike is one of the changes that makes it ok to remove tactics requirements, same with the cooldown on evasion & evasion not able to be used without a weapon skill (mage weapons).
 

Lord Gandalf

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Not to be offensive but do you use a sampire? Concept is doing the max damage to leech back max health. With that said why would any sampire drop tactics?
I got 3 different sampires on 3 different shards, i usually switch 120anat to 120resists depending on what im killing.

In many situations some sampires prefer to go for resisting spells instead of anatomy. So if tactics will be no longer a must for specials, most sampires will take anatomy up and add invest the 90tactics skill points in healing to it to benefit from damage, and better healing, especially those who like to solo champs that u cant leech from like scallis, corgul and others...
 

Fridgster

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I got 3 different sampires on 3 different shards, i usually switch 120anat to 120resists depending on what im killing.

In many situations some sampires prefer to go for resisting spells instead of anatomy. So if tactics will be no longer a must for specials, most sampires will take anatomy up and add invest the 90tactics skill points in healing to it to benefit from damage, and better healing, especially those who like to solo champs that u cant leech from like scallis, corgul and others...
Anatomy at max level increases damage increase by 65% (towards the 300% cap)
Tactics at max level increases damage increase by 81.25% (towards the 300% cap)

Not sure I would want to give up that much towards the cap.

If you cant leech from the boss then trying to make a sampire build to face off against it is kinda silly. That would be like using a shovel to chop down a tree.
 

Gorath

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Yes.

The hiding/stealth requirement for DS should be rolled back while we're at it, and lets take it a step further and bring back precasting. (holding spell with special move, DS, or w/e toggled.)
I agree with being able to have specials toggled while casting.
 

Lord Arm

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
go ahead and remove tactics requirements and watch how many more leave. gimmie gimmie gimme, I want I want I want.
tactics requirement should be higher 100/120.
 

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
go ahead and remove tactics requirements and watch how many more leave. gimmie gimmie gimme, I want I want I want.
tactics requirement should be higher 100/120.
Why would people leave?

And why do you think it should be higher?
 

Lord Arm

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Why would people leave?

And why do you think it should be higher?
if u don't think trammies will leave, u kidding yourself. isn't it easy enough to kill trammies, if u want more fights, make things more even. this will mainly help pvp chars types. tactics wasn't the problem with pvp but has morph into it. guess ill be only one trying to defend the trammies. aren't we powerful enough. u have chars that can disarm, moving shot, cast spells, throw pots, bonus skills, ect.., and now u want to allow any special to be use without tactics. I just realized there's no use even posting here. lol
 

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
if u don't think trammies will leave, u kidding yourself. isn't it easy enough to kill trammies, if u want more fights, make things more even. this will mainly help pvp chars types. tactics wasn't the problem with pvp but has morph into it. guess ill be only one trying to defend the trammies. aren't we powerful enough. u have chars that can disarm, moving shot, cast spells, throw pots, bonus skills, ect.., and now u want to allow any special to be use without tactics. I just realized there's no use even posting here. lol
PVM will not be affected in a negative way be removing the requirements.

And yes this change is intended to open up specials for pvp which creates more diversity.

Not playing with tactics will not increase the damage burst.

And you can't kill anyone with just disarm or a weak running shot.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
if u don't think trammies will leave, u kidding yourself. isn't it easy enough to kill trammies, if u want more fights, make things more even. this will mainly help pvp chars types. tactics wasn't the problem with pvp but has morph into it. guess ill be only one trying to defend the trammies. aren't we powerful enough. u have chars that can disarm, moving shot, cast spells, throw pots, bonus skills, ect.., and now u want to allow any special to be use without tactics. I just realized there's no use even posting here. lol
You do realize that this is how specials were originally implemented and a lot of people actually quit when this change was added- correct?
 

Hunter Perilous

Journeyman
The tactics requirement is completely reasonable and logical to perform special moves.
Removing the tactics req will only benefit the "eveything under the sun" templates and won't help diversity. It will have the opposite effect and we will have a plague of AI spamming mage necro tamers archers.
All you need is 30 tactics to be able to perform a primary move. 30.
With over powered suits like they are, getting 30 tactics won't be difficult.
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
How does this affect players that don't pvp ? I never have tactics in my pvm template, it's not needed for damage output, not really. As for needing it for specials, it shouldn't be called weapons specials, if tactics are needed to perform them, you should only need a weapon. If I don't need tactics against a magic casting, heavy damaging , pounding AI driven mob, why would I need it just because my target is human driven ?
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
The tactics requirement is completely reasonable and logical to perform special moves.
Removing the tactics req will only benefit the "eveything under the sun" templates and won't help diversity. It will have the opposite effect and we will have a plague of AI spamming mage necro tamers archers.
All you need is 30 tactics to be able to perform a primary move. 30.
With over powered suits like they are, getting 30 tactics won't be difficult.
AI has new capped damage at 30 for range right?
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I think its good because it will allow tank mages to add parry, Or necros dexxers to pvp...

BTW im currently selling necro dexxer 100% lrc stam suits
42254535
 

Fridgster

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
How does this affect players that don't pvp ? I never have tactics in my pvm template, it's not needed for damage output, not really. As for needing it for specials, it shouldn't be called weapons specials, if tactics are needed to perform them, you should only need a weapon. If I don't need tactics against a magic casting, heavy damaging , pounding AI driven mob, why would I need it just because my target is human driven ?
For warrior templates tactics is a must. Your talking over 80% of your 300% cap. Would be foolish to run a warrior without it.
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
For warrior templates tactics is a must. Your talking over 80% of your 300% cap. Would be foolish to run a warrior without it.
It depends a bit template before tactics were included was a necro dper, with 2/6 casting and you might be able to make a necro deathstriker now as well with dp
 

Mervyn

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What does the OP (someone who regularly posts pics of his cheats) know about what the pvp community wants? The pvp community would like people not to cheat.
 

Fridgster

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
It depends a bit template before tactics were included was a necro dper, with 2/6 casting and you might be able to make a necro deathstriker now as well with dp
I was commenting on the pvm portion. Unless a death striker build is viable for pvm.... never tried it.
 

Mervyn

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Well this is the problem, they've been putting In testing combat changes and COMPLETELY skited the issue that you can outrun anyone on EC, so people have resorted to having to use cheats to try and keep up. While i don't do it myself, I can understand why they do it.

Like reducing AI on an archer from 35 to 30???
How about making it so people on EC can't AI on the move due to their ridiculous speed?? wouldn't that be a better balance?
 

CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
if u don't think trammies will leave, u kidding yourself.
Explain, please make sense? you're doing a horrible job at making sense so far....


isn't it easy enough to kill trammies,
Yes, and tactics is required for specials, how would lowering damage output make it easier to kill trammies? Again, make some sense.


if u want more fights, make things more even. this will mainly help pvp chars types.
If you want more fights, you need to make "good" changes to the game, instead of stupid as **** changes, like tactics requirement back in 2007.. you know, the one that caused a lot of people to quit playing? yea, that one....



tactics wasn't the problem with pvp but has morph into it.
Tactics requirement was a problem since the first day it became required for specials, where the hell have you been? Obviously, not around when the change was made, /sadness.

It's literally taken nearly 10 years to get the devs to consider reverting one of the absolute worst changes to UO that has ever been made.

guess ill be only one trying to defend the trammies.
.... from what?


aren't we powerful enough.
in pvm, absolutely... too powerful in-fact.

It's a different case in pvp, where you need to actually get good at the game before you're powerful enough....

u have chars that can disarm, moving shot, cast spells, throw pots, bonus skills, ect.., and now u want to allow any special to be use without tactics.
so making every weapon-based attack hit for less damage is going to make it somehow imbalanced? I feel like I'm f***ing taking crazy pills....

I just realized there's no use even posting here. lol
There's never a use to posting when you can't support your argument. Good day. :next:
 
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Merlin

The Enchanter
Moderator
Professional
Governor
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
Folks -

Please stay on the topic of the tactics requirement

We're not going to devolve into discussing cheats or any other public accusations. Please also keep in mind that mentioning unapproved third party programs by name is against the Stratics Rules of Conduct and doing so will be subject to receiving a warning.

I've done some thread clean up in the mean time. Please tread lightly..
 

Kiss Of Death

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think that having no tactics will make players be able to do MANY more templates , it's simple facts.

60 TACTICS or 90 TACTICS ....it makes ABSOLUTELY no difference pvp wise , we wanted to introduce Templates diversity so what are we talking about here?

I know that some of you are scared because the good pkers who know how to make toons very well will make great templates that in some months will be copied but it has been always like this!!!

Let the PVP be interesting by making TEMPLATE DIVERSITY.

TACTICS is a dead weight. And anyway tons of players will keep it to have more DMG!!!

But for SPECIFIC templates and HYBRIDS it will be game change....I imagine BUSHIDO MAGES back in the game, NECRO MAGES WITH WEAPONS ( and specials), Amazing Stealther toons and so on!!
 

Mervyn

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
People are already complaining about the gimp template of chivalry wrestle parry char, if you then allow tons more gimp templates, it will make the game ridiculous.
 

Kiss Of Death

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
So everyone should have the same 5 toons? And nowadays due crazy items even a braindead chicken can do 150 dmg in few secs with all this crazy armour and suits!!!!! The game is totally different
 

Kiss Of Death

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
And why not let the best players make great templates diversity? Because the mediocre ones are jelous? Maybe people will have the input to improve and learn?
 

Merlin

The Enchanter
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With 67 votes, results are 58% Yes, 42% No. Seems clear to me that removing tactics requirement doesn't have the overwhelming support that some wish to think it does.

I think the developers' proposal of finding a middle ground - something less than current Tactics requirement but not complete elimination - is the fairest path here.

There will almost always be a flavor of the month template that will trend for a while, just like there is with all of the Chiv-fisters right now. I don't believe shouting "TEMPLATE DIVERSITY" is the answer to this issue. I believe such diversity will only open up more issues and complaints down the line as soon as a few folks find the next OP template to exploit.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
With 67 votes, results are 58% Yes, 42% No. Seems clear to me that removing tactics requirement doesn't have the overwhelming support that some wish to think it does.

I think the developers' proposal of finding a middle ground - something less than current Tactics requirement but not complete elimination - is the fairest path here.

There will almost always be a flavor of the month template that will trend for a while, just like there is with all of the Chiv-fisters right now. I don't believe shouting "TEMPLATE DIVERSITY" is the answer to this issue. I believe such diversity will only open up more issues and complaints down the line as soon as a few folks find the next OP template to exploit.
People, like you, don't give any reasons to how the tactics change will affect you in pvp or pvm and give valid reasons to why it shouldn't be removed.

That could be considered trolling according to you. Just an FYI lil guy.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Blazing should have made this a public vote so we can see the 40% that disagreed. Guarantee it is people who don't pvp or have a clue how to do so like certain people in this thread. PvP changes should be heard about from actual PvPers. This is a crazy concept, I know.
 

cobb

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I think that having no tactics will make players be able to do MANY more templates , it's simple facts.

60 TACTICS or 90 TACTICS ....it makes ABSOLUTELY no difference pvp wise , we wanted to introduce Templates diversity so what are we talking about here?

I know that some of you are scared because the good pkers who know how to make toons very well will make great templates that in some months will be copied but it has been always like this!!!

Let the PVP be interesting by making TEMPLATE DIVERSITY.

TACTICS is a dead weight. And anyway tons of players will keep it to have more DMG!!!

But for SPECIFIC templates and HYBRIDS it will be game change....I imagine BUSHIDO MAGES back in the game, NECRO MAGES WITH WEAPONS ( and specials), Amazing Stealther toons and so on!!
I bet the number of templates would increase more than double if tactics requirement was removed
 

Winker

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Blazing should have made this a public vote so we can see the 40% that disagreed. Guarantee it is people who don't pvp or have a clue how to do so like certain people in this thread. PvP changes should be heard about from actual PvPers. This is a crazy concept, I know.
Funny thing is those who dont PvP pay the same amount each month as you. so they have the same amount of say over how the game moves forward. Its their game too you know. Ps im a PvPer who thinks everyone should be allowed their own say.
 

Winker

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I bet the number of templates would increase more than double if tactics requirement was removed
no they would not, everyone would zoom in to the most Gimp template that could be made. Its been this way form day one and its not going to change any time soon.
 

Kiss Of Death

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yes but pvmers will keep tactics for the dmg... pvpers want to be able to have more template possibilities and without tactics the pvp will be so more interesting.
 
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