PvP Thread- Keep your smack talk in here. Thanks :)

[Grey Eagle of Baja]

The Shard has pretty decent PvP IMO , it varys , but most of the action is either early am or after 11pm Mtn time. the most active PvP guilds are , Cartel, K^R, VSOP,and of course SI , Anyway it has enough pvp that u can usally find a good fight, a good raid, or a duel if thats what u like.
Thats about all I know know about ,,
I Suck @pwn
Noxx

 

[Zosimus]

I thought the PvP thread was for both?

You answered a question with a question go figure. I asked if it was pvp or drama and the question wasnt for you so sorry about that. I'll be specific it was for Capt E or Airhaun. I prefer in-guild or allies issues in icq's or pm. Airhaun seemed a bit surprised by the comment anyway. Seemed Capt E was not to happy with issues/certain peeps and it may brew into a pvp contest or like "Days of our Lives" drama. Drama always leads to division and this game doesnt need to much more community division.

 

[Zosimus]

Well, it wasn't a proud moment hearing that this took place. I honestly have been pretty disenchanted lately with UO in general. I mostly place the blame on my own shortcomings as a player. I am really not getting any better, and a bunch of 12 year old hackers pretty much have their way with me. I really do enjoy playing with you guys. However, a guild member left my faction guild due to an SI member's gold hoarding ways. So yeah, it's drama, I don't care for it, and nothing will come of it. Much like the fix for speeder, banning hackers, or balancing PVP. There isn't a black and white solution, and I honestly could care less at this point. So there it is. E

I know and understand some of what you are saying. Been there and done that years ago. If ya looking for something to pvp try warhammer online. They have an endless free trial. You can play just T1 thats it. Constant rvr in the rvr lakes and scenarios always pop. I gave up on the pvp scene in UO atm just actually trying to roleplay which is a new scene for me.

 

[Lt.Snuggles]

Ello mates, i wanna toss a shout out to all of si..for actually looking for a fight,and not running away when they find em, the past few days we have been entertained by hour long+ fights with SI...the best part of which is the **** talk that was once there has since been squashed..so kudos to you all,and kudos to cypher (kills me to say that) for leading that guild of yours into some decent fights....keep em comin!!!

P.S. Airhaun stalks me =[

 

[Airhaun]

Thanks Snuggle-cakes.

But seriously… I can’t speak for everyone but I think a majority of us have enjoyed it as well (I know I much prefer NOT hiding in guard zone). With SI/Alliance having players with such a wide range of pvp experience it isn’t usually easy to pvp at a top level but where there may be a void of experience that void is filled with heart and determination. The times when we outnumber you 2 to 1 your troops have done a great job displaying teamwork and defensive skills. I am happy to see/hear the trash talk has diminished… hopefully it is a lasting trend.

Steady as she goes….


Post Script: Twista printed out that pic of me on Stratics and posted it on the wall above his bed.

 

[Amber Witch]

Saw this in the Shanghai Museum the other day and it made me think of our Baja PvP'rs and how much I miss the smack talk in chat!

Really!!!

Thats chat!!! Not the forums!!

 

[Zyron]

Hey all.

 

[Lynk]

Any active faction guilds recruiting? I have a char here in CoM, fully finished, but none of my buddies ever made it over here. Looking for a guild to play with.

Semi-regular playing, 8p-10p central on some weekday nights. I ping 60ish.

Don't want to be in a zerg, but would like to be with people that field 3-4 regularly.

 

[SuperKen]

This discussion came up, so I'd like to offer my opinion.

Top 5 Mages/PvPers in the Alliance

Dueling Mages:

1. Aden
2. Cimmerian
3. Ankle McGrabber
4. Josephine
5. Spock or Kal Talas

Fair? I'd really like to see Ankle duel Cimmerian and both fight Aden. I'll admit I'm not quite sure who beats who in mage duels within the Alliance.

Field Mages:

1. Airhaun
2. Cypher
3. Rumsfield
4. Totem Pole
5. Ankle McGrabber

Dexxers:

1. Greyheart
2. Mistress Redline
3. Tweedle Dee
4. Tweedle Dum
5. Gertie

 

[Zosimus]

Lynk talk to SuperKen or any members of Cartel. Thats the guild you need to hook up with plus I think you make a great addition.

 

[Prime.]

Lynk is a pretty good mage! I pvped against him and his guild a few times on GL, he'll defiantly make a good addition to any pvp guild he joins, and will defiantly be a problem for the guilds he doesn't ;p

As for another note, me and a friend are going to be x-fering here for good, maybe a third and fourth ones looking at catskills and the others still undecided... I have a char here already but never really play it, but my main shard is pretty small, and a handful of the people I played with just quit uo altogether , so am looking for a new "home shard" in hopes my interest will spark back up. Have a lot of stuff to pack though. =( Just looking for a change before I decide I really want to leave uo myself or not.

 

[Lynk]

Any active faction guilds recruiting? I have a char here in CoM, fully finished, but none of my buddies ever made it over here. Looking for a guild to play with.

Semi-regular playing, 8p-10p central on some weekday nights. I ping 60ish.

Don't want to be in a zerg, but would like to be with people that field 3-4 regularly.

I also have a sampire on Baja on an alt account so I can help with Harrowers!

 

[SuperKen]

Sent an icq to you, Lynk.

Mine is 51520025.

 

[SuperKen]

Wow, multiple Saturday evening Prime-time Harries. Just like old times... Minus the reds, who, despite the odd showing over the past week, seem to have truly ceded Baja Fel to the blues on the shard. Can we finally declare it then? UO's Baja shard is the first one to eradicate any form of organized red dominance on the shard. Though, I will give a tip of the hat to CT, who do regularly show up in the early hours, though, come to think of it, we did trounce them earlier today as well.

Cypher, CEO Spawners Inc

QFT.

Looking back, has your troll post had the intended effect?

Mall cop, out.

 

[Ayassa]

Giggles at Mall cop

 

[Emosocial]

It looks that it has had more than the effect that he wanted. Now Si is losing harries and spawns left right and center. I only wish that they wouldnt all log off nerd raging and stay around for more fighting.

.02

 

[Slugs hate Mongbats]

To the Man child who would be dictator ....

Regarding the events in the desert tonight: I honestly thought our little shard was above such petty squabbles such as "oh no I have every right to tell all alliance members who their friends are." Tonight's spawn was hosted by GHT, who I know for a fact, has no enemies. All friends (interesting concept huh?) were invited to join in regardless of politics. However one person took offense at the fact that I had invited 2 other guilds - who it turns out are "enemies" despite the fact that neither guild knew that at the time. To this person I say ... These individuals came along at MY invite. They did nothing wrong. If you continue to behave in such a petty manner ... I look forward to bringing more of your disgruntled allied members along on our little "excursions" We treat them well ... evidently quite unlike you

 

[Chango of Baja]

Re: To the Man child who would be dictator ....

I have to agree completely!!!!!!! I suppose they do not like the fact that WE ARE A GROUP OF FRIENDS just playing for the FUN of it!!!!!

 

[Airhaun]

Re: To the Man child who would be dictator ....

Hi all,

Let’s lay down some fundamentals to help make sense of this. I’ll begin by explaining what an Alliance is and what role the Alliance leader plays in this. An Alliance is made up of numerous guilds (this could range from 2 to infinity). An Alliance is usually founded and created by the larger, more active, and more powerful guild. Other guilds request to join this Alliance. Their reasoning could be social networking, strength in numbers at Fel Spawns, PvP accessibility, or the ability to connect with other UO players to do peerless, tame stuff… any number of events UO so richly provides.

Upon being excepted into an Alliance there are certain stipulations a guild must agree to abide by, social ideologies, political affiliations. This all sounds complicated and restricting but really conflict doesn’t usually arise… as long as the leadership in Allied guilds do their job in informing their members of the Alliance policies. There must be common ideologies within the Alliance in order to avoid inconsistencies. Inconsistencies lead to confusion, which leads to anger, which in-turn threatens the happiness of the UO gamer.

For example: Let's say guild (S@C) which is allied with (IS) were not made aware that (S!M) is a KoS guild (Kill on Sight). There may be members of allied guilds who are not aware of the history or reasoning behind this. But as members of an alliance they are still required to adhere to the policies. Finding Alliance members spawning with an enemy guild is not an activity we want to become commonplace.

Now if respective allied guilds or their members find they are not able to comply with policies, they need to either leave their guild or vote to have the guild leave the alliance. This would be appropriate in order to avoid further misunderstandings and promote individual gaming experience.

Airhaun
President, SI

 

[Slugs hate Mongbats]

Re: To the Man child who would be dictator ....

Well stated Airhaun even tho I disagree with your definition of "alliance" I certainly respect your point of view. Mistakes were made (Esp by me) . But my problem was not the spawn itself ... my problem was the nasty ICQ messages that followed.

 

[Brytt]

Re: To the Man child who would be dictator ....

Nicely done, Airhaun.

 

[Slugs hate Mongbats]

Re: To the Man child who would be dictator ....

Aye it was. The main person in question here is a friend - and as a friend I should not have allowed her to put herself in that position. And I also underestimated the amount of malice that was involved in the "punishment" of said person

 

[Lt.Snuggles]

Re: To the Man child who would be dictator ....

friends should be able to play with friends,half the people that were there that night rarely ever play in fel...if they wanna host a public friendly spawn,hell let em..and if they do and cypher wants to become a prima donna about it...We being Cartel will be there to back the little guys up and send the rotten apple runnin..toodles

Mall Cop II out.

 

[RawHeadRex]

wait a godamn minute here...my friends are KoS ?

the simple fact of the matter is this: when Cartel showed up we thought at first they were gonna raid us and we were toast... AND WE WERE FINE WITH THAT. We didn't call in help, we just continued to enjoy ourselves.

Turns out ... they were waiting for SI solely AIR ! everyone and their collective mothers could have been there but Cartel was only looking for SI. AGAIN, CARTEL WAS WAITING JUST NORTH OF THE ALTER WAITING FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.


We weren't spawning with them. Cartel decided not to raid us and acted decent. Why does that bother you so much and more importantly ... why is it any of your business ? Some of us are in trouble for acting like Switzerland in this situation. Cut the BS ALREADY.

 

[Sally_Elena]

Hello to you all! I understand that this problem is no good about the whole Spawning thing that happened on Wed night! I can see this has gotten way out of hand. To me I see this as a small problem that could of easily been fixed but then there are those who I think took it to far to the point where it is now out of control.

I would like to say that it shall not happen again with Alliance/guild ppl spawning with other random guilds, as for me it wont happen but I can not promise u that with other ppl in the alliance/guild that it wont happen because that's their decision but I am sure there are consequences about it now.

But I would also like to say that this shard is dying out and basically UO is soon to be going bye bye in the near future and also would like to say as there was really nothing going on with UO sooo as some of us thought it would be a fun thing to go spawning with a whole bunch of other guilds. But as some ppl would not agree with that and that is understandable. Its breaking the rules.

As for one guild showing up we were spawning and they showed up this is very true we all thought we would be raided by this guild but we found out that they were supposedly just waiting for another guild as they were basically staying behind the altar north on the grass just sitting there not really doing anything but once the other guild showed up they took action against that guild so basically we had nothing to do with them honestly.

Also would like to say to one post that this whole ICQ thing is out of the business and it went to far with that and honestly wasn't malicious icq msg's more just telling me of what I was basically spawning with and letting me know that was a no no. Anyway I apologize for any misgivings on the ICQ stuff but honestly that all needs to stay out of this too cause it really doesn't have anything to do with the spawning. But I believe we have learned our lesson on this way too.

I would like to say this is one huge huge mess but it can still be fixed i believe if everyone just shuts there mouths and doesn't mention anything else about this it would be a wonderful thing as time is going and we can't spend our whole lives on thinking about this one little issue that turned into a big issue because of a few things. I will take the blame for it yes honestly I will for what happened that night I had no clue that it would get like this though.

U can hate, u can love, u can kill me whatever u want but like i said i will always be around until UO dies out. So u will not get rid of me so understand that.

Any questions plz ask me I will not bite your head off!

Rest in silence people!

 

[phantus]

Sooo not a big deal people. Shame on you for making Sally come here and have to explain the misunderstanding.

There will be repurcussions.



....so not a big deal.

 

[Lt.Snuggles]

question....

Is Cartel part of you "Kill on Sight" list?...

 

[SuperKen]

Hi folks,

Cartel wasn't spawning with this group. We weren't there to protect either.

I scouted the spawn myself, and was flabbergated to see so many different blues with different tags. I thought it was pretty cool and decided to just watch. I told my best buddy/guildmate in Vent that I thought I actually saw Mama Faith (!) spawning, and he wanted to come up and say "Hi".

Mama Faith is cool. So were a lot of the blues there; these were folks you don't often see in Fel and we wanted no part in attacking folks who were just out to have a good time.

My guildmate got there, brought along an old returning player who isn't with Cartel, we all thought the whole thing was pretty chill, and wanted no part in raiding them. We started talking about dolphins instead.

Then we saw a red SI member, and we did what our instincts told us to. We weren't waiting for SI and we had little to no communication with the spawners. We were there to chat about dolphins. We simply attacked the red SI member because that's what we do.

 

[Mama Faith]

SK, you guys probably thought the apocalypse was upon you when you saw me in Fel spawning! I busted out laughing when I saw you and other members of Cartel arrive at the spawn and I thought, "we are such dead meat". But I hold to my belief that when we're in Fel? Fel rules apply; no whining allowed! Thank you guys for allowing us to have some fun but know that we also would've understood if you would've beaten us into a pulp.

You were right when you said this was a group of guilds out having fun. I guess we should've turned our guild tags off but noone figured it was going to be a problem. There were 5 guilds represented that night and all of us are friends. Baja has been shrinking recently (I hope it's just because of summer) and God knows, we have to seek our entertainment wherever we can get it. I couldn't give a rat's arse what guild anyone is in. If I want to hunt with someone, I'm going to do it. When 'Slugs hate Mongbats' suggested all of us do a spawn, I was game! The scrolls aren't important to us, it's just fun doing something different to keep UO interesting.

Out of respect for the guild affected, I have to agree that this needs to drop. Tempers may have raged but now it's cool down time. I may not agree with alliance rules but respect their right to disagree with me. I have no animosity toward any guild and I will continue to enjoy players on a case to case basis; no matter their guild or alliance.

 

[Cyanide_Seige]

Jesus Christ I can't wait to pvp here lololol

 

[UltimatePower]

Jesus Christ I can't wait to pvp here lololol

Not gonna be much action in a few weeks, when Superken is the only cartel member who can still log on his accounts.

 

[Cyanide_Seige]

Not gonna be much action in a few weeks, when Superken is the only cartel member who can still log on his accounts.

awwww? fo realz?

 

[Lt.Snuggles]

haha mama was game! she has went street on us!!! naa jk..but quick question, do dolphins asssit in protecting humans from shark attacks? i got 2mil riding on this.

 

[UltimatePower]

do dolphins asssit in protecting humans from shark attacks? i got 2mil riding on this.

yes they do

http://www.dolphins-world.com/Dolphins_Rescuing_Humans.html

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/21689083/

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2004/11/24/dolphin_newzealand041124.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081210223029AATtnUv

 

[SuperKen]

Dolphins ftw.

 

[Prime.]

U can hate, u can love, u can kill me whatever you want

Brittney Spears reference?

Heck yes, I only realized what If You Seek Amy really ment, just last weekend...

 

[Mama Faith]

Maybe it doesn't need to be said but I will anyway. Thank you guys for Saturday night! In case some don't know, SK shouted out that we needed to do a public spawn and other players chimed in; all were welcome to join in - no matter what our color was. They got loads of grief for that, from some of the players in general chat, but many of us went. I can't speak for everyone but this was the first time I've seen some of those spawns in Fel and they were a blast! By doing this, it gave some of us "trammelites" a taste of what your lands have to offer and it was fun. Yes, I know that the risk of death wasn't as prevalent as it normally is but for some, the risk is worth it for the rewards received. Thank you again guys. You made my night.

P.S. Lt. Snuggles...would I have to get rid of my white armor if I go street?

 

[Emosocial]

Not gonna be much action in a few weeks, when Superken is the only cartel member who can still log on his accounts.

the traditional Si mouthbreather auto reply, eh Jinx ?

I haven't played for almost 4 years but the SI mentality of "If we cant beat them with overwhelming numbers it must mean that they hack" has not changed since I quit.

Honestly that is what has limited your guilds ability to become better at pvp all along.

I ping 180 and only use automap & assist and I just came back from a long layoff, but I can routinely give your members dirtnaps and get away from your 20 person ganks.

What do you attest that to ? If you say skill, then I present myself to you as average at best within my guilds ranks in 1v1's and slightly above average in field situational awareness. There are guys in $C$ that are just that good. Deal with it.

 

[Zosimus]

the traditional Si mouthbreather auto reply, eh Jinx ?

I haven't played for almost 4 years but the SI mentality of "If we cant beat them with overwhelming numbers it must mean that they hack" has not changed since I quit.

Honestly that is what has limited your guilds ability to become better at pvp all along.

I ping 180 and only use automap & assist and I just came back from a long layoff, but I can routinely give your members dirtnaps and get away from your 20 person ganks.

What do you attest that to ? If you say skill, then I present myself to you as average at best within my guilds ranks in 1v1's and slightly above average in field situational awareness. There are guys in $C$ that are just that good. Deal with it.

Same argument they always have. Besides one that I'm not sure is cartel I know the rest dont cheat but you cant explain that to SI. Lets see in a few weeks as he says then lets see how many in their alliance all of sudden disapear. I know of one that scripts in the new lands mining. Doesnt matter its pvp or not its the principle that SI keeps to itself.

So why doesnt SI hold public harries if they are do gooders for the shard? Hold public spawns? Maybe they are afraid to lose profit from it. Wow gold is almost 17 cents a mil so hmmmm must be something else.

 

[Blaze of Baja]

haha mama was game! she has went street on us!!! naa jk..but quick question, do dolphins asssit in protecting humans from shark attacks? i got 2mil riding on this.

Sure they do. Haven't you ever watched Flipper?

 

[SuperKen]

Shark bad.

 

[Capt.E]

All I can say is WOW. I stop reading these boards for a few weeks and I come back and there is pictures of dolphins and a story I still have yet to figure out. So anyhow, I hear there may be a public Harry sometime soon, and I want to know a few things.

1. If I bring a red faction toon down am I gonna get some action? I'm totally fine with letting blues do the harry, but c'mon we all know why most of us venture to fel. It's not for spawns, even though that may be where we end up.

2. What is the point of a public Harry if not mass murder???

3. Has cartel gone totally soft or what?

As a side note, Airhaun, I would like to add that we (as an alliance guild) bring alot to the table as far as help at spawns and helping players, so despite your claims of being an all powerful empire, I feel that it is, and should be more of a symbiotic relationship. As opposed to your total dominance over alliance guilds and members. Which, quite frankly, is crap. Your on a power trip bro, and if C@S and GBU! left SI I really feel that SI would be much, much less of a dominant guild. Just my 2 gp's. So please in the future have some respect for our members(meaning alliance guilds) and what they contribute to your guild.

 

[Zosimus]

Very well said Capt E!

 

[SuperKen]

Good points Capt. E.

I'll shy away from the Alliance thing; that's neither here nor there for me to comment on.

Just responding to your questions about the Cartel.

1. If you bring a red faction toon, and start attacking random blues, then you're going to get some action. That is not what we're shooting for here, but we're not going to let you wipe out spawners either.

2. The point of this public Harrower is simple: to encourage people to come out to Fel and see what they're missing. With action in Fel (and Tram as well) slowing down lately, it is entirely in Cartel's best interests to encourage people to come out to Fel. This particular event will not have us as raiders, but if all goes well, I think you will see future events where we will be raiding or spawning a Harrower for mass death. Baja is home to the Cartel, and we aim to do our part to be in the community, not outside it. You won't find us caring about other shards that Cartel are on.

Basically, we're drug dealers and the first time's free, bro. =]

3. Yes, we have gone soft. Our shipment of Viagra went missing.

I'd like to point out that we at Cartel are comfortable enough in our skins to do what amuses us and also serves our goals. If we wanted to spawn with random blues on a whim, we can. If we wanted to go participate in RP events, we can. And if anyone doubts that we're not killing folks anymore, they can pop a spawn anywhere, announce it on Global Chat, and see if we won't come to take it.

I don't think anyone on this shard seriously doubts what the Cartel are and has always been. We're PKs but we're also smart enough to know that it takes a bit of salesmanship to get folks to buy the product these days, and that's what we're doing here.

On a personal note, I'd rather lose a hundred fights in a row than not have any fights at all. Destroying everyone in sight only serves to make this shard quieter and less friendly, and that doesn't do anyone any good, save those who don't want to play the game any longer. It is unfortunate but also true that people don't come out to Fel to have fun anymore and they must be encouraged to see what sort of fun can be had in Fel.

Or would you rather we all just sit around Yew and fight the same 10 faces every day?

 

[Airhaun]

Hello Eric,

I’m going to assume your complaints are directed to my above post. Of course GBU brings a lot to the table for spawns, PvP and general participation. So does C@S, and CDTM and any other alliance guilds I might have left out.

The point I was trying to make is that with a large alliance sometimes not everybody IN that alliance is willing to follow protocol , standards and simple “dos’ & “dont’s” when the guild joins an alliance. Nevertheless these are standard codes of conduct that are agreed upon at the time of the inception of the guild into an Alliance. There will inevitably be members that are either naïve on Alliance policies or are aware of them but in effect choose to break them. These particular member cause drama and require us to take action.

There is a common term “Alliance Leader” guilds requested to be apart of this alliance. Once guilds were accepted into the alliance, they agreed upon a certain code of ethics. Also upon this acceptance Alliance members are brought into our house. This is made even more tangible by bring granted free Voice & Map access including personal guild channels in voice to conduct your autonomous guild activities. A community is provided, methods of communication and organization with map and voice are provided. The Alliance Leader is just that…. The Leader. And in our case we have provided a very versatile and hospitable environment. If Allied members do not want to participate in SI Events, Spawns, PvP…. They don’t have to. They can cruise in the own special private voice channel and do what they want.

I don’t get what the problem here is. As long as allied members subscribe to the same shard-wide philosophies and ideologies SI does…. Seems like allied members have it made. If guilds allied to SI are having some issues, please elect someone in leadership to address the issue with our Diplomat, Ayassa.

Stop pancakes on Stratics Captain Eric and invest your energies into something that can bring about the change you are so interested in. Speak to me, Ayassa, Cypher, Fromage, Rumsfeld. We all have an open door policy and are interested in your input and concerns. As for continuing to use Public Stratics Threads to voice your frustration, you're only alienating your self and demonstrating you are more interested in whinning then actually sitting down and fixing the problem.

 

[Lt.Snuggles]

Oh nononoonooooooooooo good sir.. Cartel has not gone soft, if that was the case,you wouldnt drop stat everytime we see you =]. And yes,we would rather talk about dolphins rather than look at you hiding in a guardzone.

 

[Zosimus]

I see a major issue that could happen here. At the shard harry if some of SI allies want to come to raid for pvp and the guild alliance leader SI wants to help at the harry.


Is SI going to help fight off any alliance member that does come to raid on a faction toon or ally toon?


Is SI going to stand by and allow some of their alliance members kill other players and do nothing?

Maybe SI should just stay out of the public shard harry since issues could arise. IF and I will type again IF SI really wants to particpate and didnt want to do an event themselves then you need to adress these questions. I dont want to be fighting a raid in the front and get stabbed in the back from SI that is already there b/c of the supposedly offer of help.

 

[Slugs hate Mongbats]

All due respect, Zosimus, I disagree with you. Public means Public, and I appreciate Airhaun's kind offer. Last I checked SI and allies were part of the Baja community. (Just my .02)

 

[Brytt]

This will be the first time that a lot of us gumdrop candyland Trammies have done any serious Fel hunting in a while.

If folks grief a public event like this, we'll go back into our RP shells and may not be back for a while. If they, instead, let us get the taste of a spawn, we may get infected with greedlust and come back for more, so folks can hunt us for our insurance moneyz. And, of course, sheer sport.

Just my thoughts. Grief. Don't Grief. Do what makes you happy. Just know that nothing's free.

Cartel's handing out the dime bags to give folks a taste. I say the more you let 'em, the better for Fel.

 

[Zosimus]

All due respect, Zosimus, I disagree with you. Public means Public, and I appreciate Airhaun's kind offer. Last I checked SI and allies were part of the Baja community. (Just my .02)

Dddnt say you have to agree which is cool. Im just saying they need to adress this. Some of thier alliance if they want to raid is fine or help is fine but to do both is a conflict. Didnt say they COULDN'T participate. I gave an opinion they should stay out of it until they get their alliance on the same page to help or raid. Not both because you wont have many people coming back to fel if this becomes an alliance guild drama mess festival at the harry.