~ Ninja Template Talk Thread - ~

[Guest]

In an effort to keep discussion of Ninja templates in one thread and thereby hopefully keep the information posted easier to digest, please post all of your template related questions or advice in this thread!

Keep the template talk comin' though...we can all learn a few things yet!/php-bin/shared/images/icons/eyes.gif

 

[Darkholme]

I've been pondering what to do for my Ninjas template for weeks now, and I still haven't made up my mind 100% what to do... what a dilemma.

Here's the template I was thinking...

110 Ninjitsu
110 Fencing
100 Hiding
100 Stealth
100 Healing
100 Anatomy
100 Poisoning

I debated and debated and debated ad nauseum whether to do GM Poisoning or GM Focus and I think I've made my mind up to do Poisoning... and here's my reasoning. With mana regeneration there are items that I can use to offset not having any skills that regenerate mana. Now I hate to rely on items, but with the crowded nature of these newer skill templates it's almost impossible not to and come out with a usable character. Now on the other side of the coin, there aren't any items that can replace the bonus that you get to poisoning... Not to mention that many of the special moves on Ninja weapons and other Fencing weapons is Infectious Strike, which is much more effective with Poisoning. Being able to poison your own weapons, and your enemies food is cool too. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

The rest is quite obvious in my opinion... most of the Ninja weapon (if not all) are Fencing. Need a way to heal, and the damage and heal bonus from Anatomy makes it a no brainer when deciding between it and Tactics. Half of the Ninja abilities rely on Hiding and Stealth... and well, he's a Ninja, duh.

Now if I want that cool Ka-Ge tag I can drop Fencing to GM or something else to 90, like Stealth... but overall, with the right items I think for a pure Ninja that's the template to go with.

 

[Azby]

Is the spells-resist skill a necessity for a PvP ninja's template?

 

[KingBlitz]

is this totally insane?

100 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
80 Stealth (100 if i get those leggings)
115 Fencing
105 Necromancy
120 Spirit Speak
100 Meditation

with mage stats

or

Swap necro for tactics and use warrior stats?

opinions very welcome. I am a bit confused. I think it would be cool with a necromancer ninja though /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[lysarius]

One suggestion would be try to get fencing + stealth to 200 for the 5 point reduction in combat movesd (I'd go for 120 fencing if you are scrolled and 85 stealth if you arent.)

Strengths:
- I actually like this template a lot. I dont think a fencer ninja (my current template) has any real offensive ability
-As a necro you have Pain Spike (very low mana cost), Strangle, and Poison Strike

Weaknesses:
- With no anatomy and no tactics you can't really do hand to hand damage so your offense is very mana intensive.
- Ive never had a char with only Spirit Speak for Healing and I'm not sure it would give enough healing potential. (Can you use Spirit speak while stealthed?)

 

[lysarius]

Does anyone know how effective the offensive ninja special moves are?(particularly Ki Strike and Death Strike)

Right now I am at 65 ninjitsu and I really enjoy mirror image and the ability to use smoke bombs, but I am concerned about offense. My planned template is

100 Hiding
80 Stealth (I never fail a check in medable armor)
120 Ninjitsu
120 Fencing
100 Magery (healing, curing, energy vortex, res, etc)
100 Battle Focus (Might trade for tactics, but ninjas are REALLY mana intensive)
100 Poisoning

My template will be very dependent on the ninja special moves to do damage and I dont want to waste the time and money scrolling my char to 120 ninjitsu unless the ninja special moves can actually hurt something.

My impression so far is:

- Backstab (without tracking) = maybe does 6-8 extra points of damage which is not worth it for a 30 mana move

- Focus Attack = I have not noticed any increase in my damage when this works

- Unless Ki Attack (25 mana) and Death strike (30 mana) do awesome damage I will not bother scrolling ninjitsu and I will drop poisoning to add some other skill in order to actually have an offense.

I like poisoning (gives me an extra 5 points off special moves) but anything with magery (or a cure potion) cures poison almost instantly, and it seems that a ninja can use throwing stars to poison even without the poisoning skill (Since I have poisoning I havent confirmed this, but that seems to the consensus on the boards).

Any insights/opinions are welcome.

 

[Lord Dexter]

here is the template i am currently using:

115 ninja
110 fencing
100 poison
100 tact
100 hide
100 stealth
60 chiv
35 focus

and im having lots of fun playing her.

 

[Demoth Sarrkhan]

Template:

110 Ninja (Bumping up to 120 once I get scroll)
110 Stealth
110 Spirit Speak
110 Swords
100 Tactics
100 Hiding
70 Meditation

Have good mana regen suit.

I'm wearing high DI/HCI jewel set.

So far things seem to be going well in PvP with this template. Though, I really wish we could at least use Ninja spells while in animal form so we don't have to get on an actual mount to run across screen for max damage on Ki-Attack.

 

[Adrosi939]

What I'm curious to know is how are people moving around. I see so many templates here without magery or chiv for that matter.

Whats the deal, do people expect to walk everywhere or bum gates off people or what......your thoughts................

 

[Darkholme]

You can recall using runebook charges with zero Magery now... No need to have it anymore. Plus you can recall, albeit with a very low chance, with a recall scroll. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[~ChaoticSoul~]

Here is the template I am working towards:

115 Fencing
110 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
100 Stealth
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
75 Focus

90 Strength/40 Intel/100 Dexterity - will probably buy a stat powerscroll so I can gain an additional 10 in Intel or I can use armor or jewelry to acheive 50.

 

[LS Player]

Me,its all avoiding.

60 steal(120 with shadow legs,bandana,+15 ring and braclet)
90 snoop(100 with bandana)
100 hideing
90 heal
80 anatomy
50 stealth(80 with shadow legs, and bandana)
80 ninjit
100 focus
70 necro


This guy is designed to steal,then hide, and stealth away.Steal from the target,hit a smoke bomb,then walk away.In wraith form, i dont have to worry about stepping on anyone.So this guy basically is a star room camper.Waiting for people to come threw with their goodies.Or steal all the doom/new land rares.

 

[Adrianas]

I wasn't sure how well it would work, but I thought I would see if I could build a ninja with the following template:
100 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
100 Stealth
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
100 Archery
50 Meditation (I find that med still works faster than focus)
50 Tactics
I have a few more points that will go in whatever (my account is less than 2 years old).
My primary concern was how the special moves would work, but they DO work! I can "backstab" from several tiles away. Of course, I still don't know how viable it will be until I get all of the skills up, but I thought the combination of a stealth-archer and a ninja might be fun. Also, in my mind I see ninja being very skillful with things like crossbows (pre-"Kill Bill" I guess).

 

[Delmor]

This is the one I decided upon. But it is still in training atm.

GM Hiding
GM Stealth
GM Snooping
GM Stealing
Gm Ninja
GM Fencing
GM Healing

There are many pros and cons to this template. But basically I just need to stay alive while I get away after a steal. And I figured this will give me the best chance.

All comments welcome.

 

[Guest]

Ok, heres what Im thinking for a ninja. Its a new char that i created with my sixth slot Ive been saving.

110 Ninjitsu....Duh
100 Fencing..Any weap skill would do, but I wanna try a fencer
100 Hiding
100 stealth...These first 4 are pretty obvious
100 Healing
100 anatomy...Need to be able to heal, and gets damge bonus from anat I think
50 Chiv/50 focus...I really dont want to play a char who cant recall, and with a little chiv can use close wounds in a pinch.

Ill play around a little with the exact numbers, my pally has 97 Heal/Anat and that works fine for healing and ressing. Iv been thinking pretty hard on this and I really think healing is a better way to go than magery. I really dont want to depend on using all SC weapons. And you cannot cast while in animal form. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

 

[Guest]

um, missing the anatomy part of healing, don't think you'll get too much off your heals without it, and won't cure poison without.

 

[Delmor]

I figured I would use cure pots for poison.
The lack of anatomy wont hurt too bad. I just need to get away. I aint planning on staying around to get hurt badly.
I tried spirit speak, and tbh I dont like being visible and unable to move while I try to heal.
With healing I can throw on a bandie and let it apply while I stealth away.

 

[Guest]

One basic question, why Ninja template is coming with Fencing instead any other melee skill? Is this only a random pick or there's a strong reason for this?

 

[Delmor]

the special moves you get with fencing.
i.e. shadow strike

but i must admit archery is tempting, but thats cos i like archery lol.
What are your thoughts on the best weapon class?

 

[Darkholme]

"One basic question, why Ninja template is coming with Fencing instead any other melee skill? Is this only a random pick or there's a strong reason for this?"

If you look at most of the new Ninja Weapons, they require the Fencing skill. Plus existing weapons just seem more appropriate to be used by a Ninja... Not to mention if you have the Poisoning skill, many of the best Fencing weapons have Infectious Strike... /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[Bo Riddler]

Here are my two thoughts on my new Ninja.

First, since I can auto-hide at my own home, doesn't this save me a step in skill gains in Stealth? Instead of Hiding, then trying Stealth, I can Hide 100% of the time in my home, right? Wouldn't practicing Stealth at home work best?

Second...here are my thoughts on a Ninja template, and I need some Help.
A Ninja-Paladin. I know, not original.

Ninjitzu, Stealth, Fencing, Tactics, Anatomy, Chivalry, Focus and Hiding. But if you do the math, those include one too many skills. Can I get some advice on where I should set my caps on the above skills, assuming a 720 limit or if anatomy or focus can be dropped? My Ninja Character is a PvM character who adventures with a Samurai mainly.

Please toss me you thoughts on how I can build a great PvM Character here.

Thanks

Bo Riddler, Pac Archer

 

[imported_sbom]

<blockquote><hr>

here is the template i am currently using:

115 ninja
110 fencing
100 poison
100 tact
100 hide
100 stealth
60 chiv
35 focus


<hr></blockquote>

How do you heal yourself?
Are pots enough?

 

[Butosai]

Whats the best way to raise stealth? i currently have 30 stealth.

 

[imported_sbom]

Hide, walk around.
Use leather armor only for now.
Add a plate helm when gains get too slow.

 

[BeeJ]

This is what my crazy ninja might get (once UO:SE arrives at my doorstep):
115 Ninjutsu
115 Fencing
100 Hiding
80 Stealth
100 Poisoning
90 Healing
90 Anatomy
25 Focus
(I have a +15 skill bonus)

I would like to put more points into focus but I am having a hard time deciding if I should take points from either healing or anatomy or both - and how many?. Any suggestions?

 

[JesterDev]

Not sure about mine yet. But thinking about:

110 Fencing
110 Hiding
80 Stealth
100 Healing
100 Anat
100 Poisoning
100 Ninjitsu

I don't like not having tactics, but really want poisoning.

 

[Darkholme]

There are no Hiding Powerscrolls, so you can't have Hiding above 100... /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[Bo Riddler]

The question was asked, how does one gain in stealth? Here is what I have found, and it is working great. I hide in my 18x18, on the roof. Since it is my house, I auto-hide without failure, this saves me a step. Then once hidden I walk accross the top of my roof. Back and Forth. Last night I gained 10 full points in stealth. I went from 33.1 to 44. Wow!

Bo Riddler, Pac Archer

 

[Lyria]

Besides, 110 Fencing, 90 Stealth and 100 Poisoning would give the second 5 mana point reduction for special weapon moves (total -10 cost), IIRC...

 

[Lyria]

On my fisher ninja (fishing when least expected!), I've added a Tracking skill of 20.1 in order to beef up the backstabbing ability. While it certainly is not enough to track people with even decent hiding capacity, it is enough to be able to track everyone else.

Instead of the base +4 damage I used to get, I can now get something like +12 damage on a successful backstab. Just start the tracking at a good distance, stealth in and watch the blood spray... (unless you are revealed or miss) /php-bin/shared/images/icons/scary.gif

 

[Lyria]

Anatomy 90 is better for sacrifices than Healing at 90 (but don't go below 60, or you won't be able to cure poisoning).

 

[Darkholme]

"On my fisher ninja (fishing when least expected!), I've added a Tracking skill of 20.1 in order to beef up the backstabbing ability. While it certainly is not enough to track people with even decent hiding capacity, it is enough to be able to track everyone else.

Instead of the base +4 damage I used to get, I can now get something like +12 damage on a successful backstab. Just start the tracking at a good distance, stealth in and watch the blood spray... (unless you are revealed or miss)"

So you're saying that the special description is literally saying that the Tracking skill is figured into the ability?

"Besides, 110 Fencing, 90 Stealth and 100 Poisoning would give the second 5 mana point reduction for special weapon moves (total -10 cost), IIRC..."

Yes I just remembered that last night... /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[BeeJ]

Thanks. I like being able to ressurrect people so healing will probably not go any lower than 90 or 85. I should go find the info I need in the healer's FAQ. Then I will not have to ask silly questions in this thread /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

*slaps forehead*
Oh dear, I already did.

Edit: Ok, after having consulted the healing tables on Stratics, I have decided to drop both healing and anatomy to 85 - thereby being able to raise focus to 35. This seems allright, my old pre-publish 16 disarm thief was fine with this level of healing. I'll be healing in the shadows anyway. Then I'll use some mana and stamina regeneration items and I should be all set.

2nd Edit: Hmm, 25 or 35 focus will not make any difference to my mana regeneration at all. Should I raise focus above 25 I ought to get at least 40 points. [confused]
Nevermind, I'll figure out something.

 

[Lyria]

<blockquote><hr>

So you're saying that the special description is literally saying that the Tracking skill is figured into the ability?

<hr></blockquote>Not the skill level by itself, just the action of tracking someone from a distance away (although my testing has been very limited; the only thing I've observed is that without tracking someone I got something like +4 damage, while I got much more when I tracked someone from a screen away or more - I have not yet tried walking in circles around the target to see how much that helps).

Of course, it is really hard to track a good hider/stealther with only 20.1 (if not impossible), but the backstab ability does seem to actually become useful the rest of the time (but don't expect to use it more than once in any battle, the skill timer after using Hiding puts of the tracking attempt by 10 seconds).

I'll go do some more testing soon.



Update: here is my ongoing collected data... (37-42 base dmg)

<pre>Pig, 49, edge of screen
Rat, 48, edge of screen (~9 steps)
Rabbit, 47, started tracking at edge of screen but it moved to 5 steps away
Dog, 45, started tracking off-screen and walked 20 steps (it seems I may've been wrong about +12)
Bird, 54, started tracking off-screen and walked ~15 steps
Rat, 46, started tracking off-screen
Rat, 51, started tracking off-screen
Bird, 62, started tracking off-screen (went into backstab ASAP, attacked it on sight, seems +12 was not such a bad guess after all...)
Bird, 50, 6-7 steps away (backstab mode ASAP, attacked immediately)
Bird, 56, off-screen (backstab mode ASAP, et.c.)
Bird, 52, near screen edge (backstab mode ASAP, et.c.)
Rat, 44, off-screen but moved closer to me (and I attacked late)
Bird, 49, 5 steps away (the now usual treatment in all other regards)
Horse, 46, 1 screen away (15-20% physical resist)</pre>

 

[Amroth_L33T]

Hi, my names Amroth. Long time Stealther, First time ninja.

115 Fence
110 ninja
100 hide
100 med/focus
100 tracking
95 stealth
90 poison

Basically Im dropping Necro and SS for Tracking and Ninja.

Although Tracking may go down to 50 yet, but nothing is set in stone. I have to train tracking yet and I'm hoping that it will work effectively. If not, Ill drop it to 50 and pump some extra points into med, stealth and poison.

How do I heal? Pots. Lots and lots and lots of Pots. (I have enhance pots %55)

I really, really need a pair of Shadow dancers, Ive been looking scince the Birth of AoS, they were hard to get before, now they are impossible to get! (On Oceania anyway)

Does anyone now if you can Use Armour Ignore in a combo with Ki Strike?

 

[Lyria]

Special attacks can't be combined with ninja attacks (in the same attack).

 

[Amroth_L33T]

Ninjas have been shafted. Pallys get to combo, why cant we?

 

[Lyria]

Because 'Ki strike' + 'Armour ignore' = 100+ damage against a full 70% resist suit...

 

[Amroth_L33T]

But I have 0 Tact and anat, so what would be the point of it?

And whats your template Oh Master Fisher?

 

[Darkholme]

"Special attacks can't be combined with ninja attacks (in the same attack)."

Are you sure about that? Did you test it? Not to second-guess, but I want to be sure. I tried it back before I had much mana and all I got was a message that I needed more mana, but I was able to "prepare" both Ki Strike and Infectious Strike...

 

[Lyria]

I haven't tried it myself, but the ninja guide says so...

 

[Darkholme]

Just tried it, no you can't use a Ninjitsu special along with a weapon special in one attack... Just like when you try clicking the other weapon special when one is already activated, it deselects the other one in favor of the new one...

Considering how weak the Ninjas melee attacks are compared to other melee templates, and considering that every other skill with special abilities like this can use their abilities in conjunction with weapon specials, I think that this should be changed to allow them to be used in the same attack... with some modifications.

 

[Lyria]

I'm not so sure about that... we still haven't seen how ninjas will be handled in &amp; affect combat. There are a lot of new tricks that may not seem impressive by themselves, but putting them together could make a ninja rather dangerous. We need to see how things pan out and what strategies are put together before we can say for sure whether ninjas are really weak or not.

(I should also point out that I'm finding skeletal/bone mages easier to fight with my week-old ninja character than what I remember with a much more developed non-mage warrior character; mirror images save lives...)

 

[Interficio]

I dropped a water elemental paragon with my 70 fencer ninja took about 4 mins
but I still killed him

P.S Smoke bombs are your friend

 

[Niles]

How's this template I've been thinking since Ninja's were planned.

120 Stealing (when I get the scroll for it.)
100 Hiding
100 Ninjitsu
100 Weapon skill
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
100 Sleath

Pretty much for doom arifacts and a little fun in the new lands as well as Ish.

 

[Gorin]

You know, I just may leave my ninja at:

120 Fencing
100 Hiding
80 Stealth
100 Poisoning
110+ Ninjitsu
100 Focus
100 Med

I'm unconvinced that heal + anat will make up for not having mana regen,
and really with smoke bombs you should not be taking damage. Heal while hidden, if you do take damge.

 

[Dragoon_Forte]

120 Fencing
120 Ninjutsu
90 Healing
100 Anatomy
100 Hiding
80 Stealth
110 Meditation

90 str/110 dex/50 int

How would this template do? I see many people go with Poisoning, but I want to be able to spout off those abilities like crazy, so I made sure I got the -5 mana reduction on the ninja abilities and 110 Meditation should help me out there too. And I'm not too familiar with Poisoning anyways.

Another question I have; Are all these Ninja templates for PvP only? I was hoping to be able to try my ninja in my favorite realm of PvM. I can see that without Parry and less damage without tactics it wouldnt do as good in PvM, but could I use it for not so hard PvM creatures?

Thanks in advance for any helps.

 

[Xunlyn]

Ninja template:

Ninjitsu GM
Fencing GM
Tactics GM
AnatomyGM
Hiding GM
Stealth GM
Healing GM

After reading this thread, ive started to think of adding poisoning to the list instead of anatomy and using pots to cure or orange petals to avoid poisoning, (serpent form avoids low lvls of poison also)

 

[ASP[2004]]

What's an effective template that can be used in a feluccan ruleset? To eliminate those spell casting mages?

I have 705 max skill points, and only 225 stat total. Please help with template, so I can seek justice for the weak and silent. Or am I better of, switching to Bushido?

Current plans:
105 Fencing
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
100 Focus
100 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
100 Stealth

what skill should I drop / raise? is magic resist vital for a ninja? Can you stealth wearing 7AE samurai helmet and ember leggings?

 

[Lyria]

If anyone can fit Parrying into a ninja template, the character could become pretty hard to kill (assuming good healing, 120 weapon skill and use of mirror images; resisting spells could be thrown in as well, but the stealthy skills may have to be sacrificed then).

At least 50% of all weapon attacks miss because of weapon skill.
Something like 1/3 of the remaining hits are taken away by Parrying.
After that, mirror images can take both weapon and spell hits.
Any hit that comes through is reduced by resistances.

See where I'm going with this..?

(of course, this is just speculation, not something that I've tried myself)