My PM To Cal_Mythic & Response.

[Draxous]

First, to all of you arguing for the removal of faction items because it hurts the shard or any other lame argument. Your wrong.

You obviously don't realize that lowering the silver cost to the price it should be is the same thing as asking for a bump in monster loot aka leveling the playing field.

The fact of the matter is that factioners risk more and are rewarded in kind. Whether on prodoshards or on Siege, they risk more... period. That argument was done had years ago and it was established in stone (should you have been a part of the discussion then and it still wouldn't have changed the result.) In fact, the argument can be made that faction items on Siege should cost even less than those on prodoshards because siege doesn't have a trammel factioners can take a break from factions in. Siege doesnt have multiple character slots prodoshard players can log onto a different character and "get away" from the risks of factions. Siege faction players risk MORE than any other shard and it can be argued that we deserve to be rewarded even more for doing so.

The only thing I see here is non-factioners complaining about a system they don't like and don't want to be a part of. Stop making up reasons to justify your point of view.

This is an item based game. This is 2010 and the game is tailored and balanced to work on the prodoshard level.

Those currently in factions and fighting on faction characters aren't the ones who are afraid to lose their gear. Its those who would be in factions, but aren't because they can't hack it in the current system. In other words, there would be a lot more participating and having fun in factions if it was fixed. That is the argument being made and this hollow attempt at twisting it serves no purpose other than to hinder this shard from being fixed and moving forward.

Lastly, if ANY of you truly want a level playing field then support this change and the boost to monster loot.

 

[Draxous]

I was just musing that all this pancakes would go away if there were no faction arties

No. There would be a whole new set of pancakes bleeding all over these forums. Removing faction arties solves nothing.

 

[Black magick]

I still dont get the argument.

I was active in factions for two+ years- some here and some on Sonoma. I have six years of playtime on Siege and will participate in the discussion.
If someone wants to backup a statement with a relevant point or make an assertion based on experience fine, thats a discussion. If you just say X sucks and thats why, thats called BS.

The argument that this is an item based game- but that certain items are to hard to obtain is circular and irrelevant. You could make the items easy to get - allowing everyone to have them regardless of how much they play, or, you could eliminate the items in question forcing players to use crafted or rare drop items instead.

There is space between the two- you could make items a little easier to get, but why?

The nature of the game would not be changed by the elimination of faction artifacts- only the flow and value of crafted items. Given that most items are easily crafted, the cost of gear in general would be reduced. I think this would be better for the game as people would be much more inclined to participate in casual PvP if the gear was not such a pain to replace.

Of course it's relevant. We are currently in a time when you can't use crap gear to pvp. If you go to a prodo shard most pvpers are decked in suits that would make a casual pvper cry. They can do that with insurance, and since we don't have insurance it only makes sense to make the items easier to get.
You don't seem to get that should faction arties be removed the rich players of this shard are going to absorb every good item they can get their hands on. They can pay more than the average player so prices for items are what they can afford, and it sure as hell isn't what an average player would want to pay to try to compete.
Your thinking stems from the idea that we can all play with entirely crafted suits. This mode of thinking is pretty misguided and doesn't take into account all the things that a pvper would need. Sure you can get 30 dci off of jewerly but that still only makes you mediocre as far as gear is concerned. With hld 60 dci is a minimum for anybody really wanting to do good. (all this is from a mage standpoint btw) Surely, you can see the problem now?

 

[Kage]

Of course it's relevant. We are currently in a time when you can't use crap gear to pvp. If you go to a prodo shard most pvpers are decked in suits that would make a casual pvper cry. They can do that with insurance, and since we don't have insurance it only makes sense to make the items easier to get.
You don't seem to get that should faction arties be removed the rich players of this shard are going to absorb every good item they can get their hands on. They can pay more than the average player so prices for items are what they can afford, and it sure as hell isn't what an average player would want to pay to try to compete.
Your thinking stems from the idea that we can all play with entirely crafted suits. This mode of thinking is pretty misguided and doesn't take into account all the things that a pvper would need. Sure you can get 30 dci off of jewerly but that still only makes you mediocre as far as gear is concerned. With hld 60 dci is a minimum for anybody really wanting to do good. (all this is from a mage standpoint btw) Surely, you can see the problem now?

Sadly they can't because we have been explaining it to them for years... we just get this in return ----------->

 

[FrejaSP]

Firstly i do agree these items should be the same price as on prodo but only because there is no reason they should cost more BUT the argument that you need to use them to compete is just pish. Only a handfull of people seem to be using them so for the most part so using them is just a way to OUTGEAR the average player.

That's very much what me and others try to say

Personally i think people should gain an advantage for being a faction and it should be a really strong one encouraging more people to pick a side so to speak. If i had it my way being on Siege would force you to choose a faction with no way of not being in one only the option to change to a different faction.

I can't agree in this, as Siege is more than just a PvP shard. Red vs blue could work fine if some of the disadvantages from being red was removed.
Some rules should stay, like being attackable everywhere and can't call guards.
Other rules could need to be looked into, like the Virtue, dealing with npc vendors and a way to control how field attack works vs players to allow reds and blue to PvM without attacking eack others.

In old days, we had lots of reds, now we only have a few.
I like red vs blue much better as it gives a reason to PvP and help RP.

What they need to do is allow anyone in a faction to wear a faction piece of gear and not have it be linked to a character that way the gear can be used and lost so all this whining about selling suits would stop. Pretty much all general chat is is people crying about selling back or not selling back faction gear.

There is a reason npc vendors only sell very few items on Siege, the factions items coms from a npc system and that goes agains the spirit of Siege.
Just increase normal artifacts drop, special in old Britainnias dungeons and even more resource and minor artifact drop on overland.

I do agree, the link to a char is bad and have to go. Making them useable for all may also help but as they are upper gear, they should not be cheaper.
Using upper gear to OUTGEAR the average player should make you a target and you should know the risk for losing it.
If you can affort it, fine, don't cry when you lose it. Some players had always had alot upper gear, and can affort losing it. As long their killer can use it, it's all good.

 

[FrejaSP]

Of course it's relevant. We are currently in a time when you can't use crap gear to pvp. If you go to a prodo shard most pvpers are decked in suits that would make a casual pvper cry. They can do that with insurance, and since we don't have insurance it only makes sense to make the items easier to get.
You don't seem to get that should faction arties be removed the rich players of this shard are going to absorb every good item they can get their hands on. They can pay more than the average player so prices for items are what they can afford, and it sure as hell isn't what an average player would want to pay to try to compete.
Your thinking stems from the idea that we can all play with entirely crafted suits. This mode of thinking is pretty misguided and doesn't take into account all the things that a pvper would need. Sure you can get 30 dci off of jewerly but that still only makes you mediocre as far as gear is concerned. With hld 60 dci is a minimum for anybody really wanting to do good. (all this is from a mage standpoint btw) Surely, you can see the problem now?

That's BS, you want Factions items to PvP vs other players in Factions items.

If your enemy was in artifacts or upper imbued armor, you could get a group together and gank them and the loot the items. You did not need stupid buyback deals.

We never had this crying in the past and if we remove factions items we will be back to normal, you will kill to get your gear or buy it from a vendor or you will farm/craft to get it.

Just lets get rid of the crap, then maybe we will see more PvP on the shard.

 

[Kage]

That's BS, you want Factions items to PvP vs other players in Factions items.

If your enemy was in artifacts or upper imbued armor, you could get a group together and gank them and the loot the items. You did not need stupid buyback deals.

We never had this crying in the past and if we remove factions items we will be back to normal, you will kill to get your gear or buy it from a vendor or you will farm/craft to get it.

Just lets get rid of the double whopper with cheese, then maybe we will see more PvP on the shard.

Freja srsly you didnt pvp before faction items, hell you haven't pvped since UDL left...

You don't pvp, Hell I doubt you even know what mystic spells even are... It's 2010 UO IS ITEM BASED so you need to take your ass to a free shard... where it's still in a 1990 something...

 

[Black magick]

That's BS, you want Factions items to PvP vs other players in Factions items.

If your enemy was in artifacts or upper imbued armor, you could get a group together and gank them and the loot the items. You did not need stupid buyback deals.

We never had this crying in the past and if we remove factions items we will be back to normal, you will kill to get your gear or buy it from a vendor or you will farm/craft to get it.

Just lets get rid of the double whopper with cheese, then maybe we will see more PvP on the shard.

I haven't pvped in a while actually. Most of my playing (when i can) consists of me farming as a mage or working a skill. If you want to call in a gank on everyone wearing good armor you're a *****, and it shows you aren't a pvper. A REAL pvper would see a better player as a challenge and want to beat him alone. The reasons why pvp would only DECREASE on this shard with the removal of faction arties has been layed out many times. Keep living in your fantasy world of old school pvp, faction arties are the devil, and Diablo isn't gonna try to scam anyone again...

 

[Revvo]

I can't agree in this, as Siege is more than just a PvP shard.

Yes and factions is MORE than just about PVP just not enough people utilise factions to understand the system fully, funny you say factions is only about PvP when one of the most powerfull elements of factions on Siege is PvM related

We actually had a very large part of the crafting community involved with factions back before the non factioneers cried about faction crafted items being blessed and they "fixed" it. Factions was always most active when there was an advantage to be gained from being the controlling faction, so how about this ONLY the faction that currently controls a majority of the towns through the sigils can wear faction artifacts but lower the price to the regular shard value?

 

[Draxous]

In old days, we had "..."

You keep saying "In the old days" but you don't understand why a lot of things were the way they were "in the old days."

You say untrue things like "factions hurt the economy" or "factions is the reason why the old cities are dead" when you're completely wrong on both counts.

You say this is not just a PvP shard well all of those things are about more than just PvP... you just don't see that because you don't understand it.

Just like you don't understand the differences behind choosing to be red or blue.

 

[FrejaSP]

Freja srsly you didnt pvp before faction items, hell you haven't pvped since UDL left...

You don't pvp, Hell I doubt you even know what mystic spells even are... It's 2010 UO IS ITEM BASED so you need to take your ass to a free shard... where it's still in a 1990 something...

I don't want 1999 back, I want factions items of the shard and I want business back to the crafters.

I have not PvP'ed sinse we got Faction artifacts, that's true. There is no way I can kill a player in factions gear without a imbued suit that cost several mills and that may not be enough to be even.

We will need Devs help to get the cost of a suit down, but faction items is not the way to go. Better drop of Artifacts, gems and imbuing resources is the way.

 

[FrejaSP]

You keep saying "In the old days" but you don't understand why a lot of things were the way they were "in the old days."

No it's not like in old days, we got AoS but we are close to heal the damage of AoS, all we need is a better drop of artifacts, gems and resources, both imbuing and regular resources.

You say untrue things like "factions hurt the economy" or "factions is the reason why the old cities are dead" when you're completely wrong on both counts.

I never said "factions hurt the economy", I saif faction split the community and upper stuff should not come from a npc system, it should come from the crafters and the farmers or from killing the farmers *Evil grin*

I never said "factions is the reason why the old cities are dead", old ghost houses, to few players and dead of shops because of to few customers killed the towns. Other thing may had done too.

You say this is not just a PvP shard well all of those things are about more than just PvP... you just don't see that because you don't understand it.

Or you don't get my point.

Just like you don't understand the differences behind choosing to be red or blue.

I do understand the reason alot choose to be noto PK's instead of being red, to much advantage from being blue.
There is more disadvantage from being red now than in old days.
In old days, being red was a playstyle.

Tell me why we need Faction, IMO Faction do nothing good to Siege.

 

[Black magick]

Tell me why we need Faction, IMO Faction do nothing good to Siege.

It's been said a million times. You're just too narrow minded to understand.

 

[hukor]

I support turning ownership off or turning the items into silver upon death. great ideas.

 

[Hugibear]

Here you go Freja,

Faction items lower the cost of high end gear, for same reason you are begging to get a higher drop of resources and artis. They are readily available for people that want them. Now lowering the cost will make them even more available to more people, that is the goal. Removing them will only make it more difficult for the occasional player to get gear. Here is why
a faction guy will run faction helm, chest, and or legs and orni (most mages run the orni and no legs, while dexxors run legs and no orni). Faction players will also wear a crimson but since this cant be crafted and nothing in that slot can be crafted with mods we wont count it. So that is 3 items outta 8-10 (pending on weapon and shield) a player is wearing is non crafted gear. Well guess what take out faction artis and nothing is gonna change. The head piece will be sammy helms again, chests will be rbc or hotl, legs will be feys, and orni will be blessed. What changed nothing. So we will just be back to high priced artis again. Which will make even more people not want to pvp.

You pin all your problems on faction artis, when in fact you should be crying about SOULSTONES. These are what killed your beloved crafters, and farmers. Now if the pvpers want to craft something they just switch out skills, and the same goes with farming. The pvpers have decided not to pay someone else to do something that they can now do. This is why alot of crafting vendors dont move alot of stuff anymore. There is no audience for them, people are makin there own ****. Now you can still do well if you make or farm the **** people are too lazy to do. And that is where your market space lays for now.

I only hope this clears things up for you, and we dont get another 10 pages on how you think faction arties are made by the devil. Turning off of the naming of the faction gear would be proper for siege, I agree with that also.

 

[Freelsy]

Here you go Freja,

Faction items lower the cost of high end gear, for same reason you are begging to get a higher drop of resources and artis. They are readily available for people that want them. Now lowering the cost will make them even more available to more people, that is the goal. Removing them will only make it more difficult for the occasional player to get gear. Here is why
a faction guy will run faction helm, chest, and or legs and orni (most mages run the orni and no legs, while dexxors run legs and no orni). Faction players will also wear a crimson but since this cant be crafted and nothing in that slot can be crafted with mods we wont count it. So that is 3 items outta 8-10 (pending on weapon and shield) a player is wearing is non crafted gear. Well guess what take out faction artis and nothing is gonna change. The head piece will be sammy helms again, chests will be rbc or hotl, legs will be feys, and orni will be blessed. What changed nothing. So we will just be back to high priced artis again. Which will make even more people not want to pvp.

You pin all your problems on faction artis, when in fact you should be crying about SOULSTONES. These are what killed your beloved crafters, and farmers. Now if the pvpers want to craft something they just switch out skills, and the same goes with farming. The pvpers have decided not to pay someone else to do something that they can now do. This is why alot of crafting vendors dont move alot of stuff anymore. There is no audience for them, people are makin there own ****. Now you can still do well if you make or farm the **** people are too lazy to do. And that is where your market space lays for now.

I only hope this clears things up for you, and we dont get another 10 pages on how you think faction arties are made by the devil. Turning off of the naming of the faction gear would be proper for siege, I agree with that also.

Well I'm glad i didn't just rage post on Freja's comment and decided to read your post. i was about to post THE EXACT same thing.

If you take away faction gear: More expensive, no-longer spawning gear will replace it. No longer spawning meaning cursed items. Crafter gains zero. ZERO!!! Freja, did you hear that? CRAFTERS GAIN NOTHING.

 

[Freelsy]

I have not PvP'ed sinse we got Faction artifacts, that's true. There is no way I can kill a player in factions gear without a imbued suit that cost several mills and that may not be enough to be even.

I can kill a guy equipped to the teeth in faction gear when I'm running a sub par suit. Sub par meaning 60 resists, some mana inc. and max hci/dci. How do you think i started out?

You can't kill another player because that's not your game play. I'm a pvper, you're a RP/crafter. You're only in this argument because you think faction items killed crafting. Which I'm willing to bet was your main source of income. that's why you're so butt hurt over it.

 

[Revvo]

Funny thing is if you know what you are doing a crafter is easily still the best way to make gold in U.O

 

[Freelsy]

Funny thing is if you know what you are doing a crafter is easily still the best way to make gold in U.O

Honestly now days its the only way. You dont monster hunt for items anymore. You monster hunt for ingredients to give to CRAFTERS to craft you everything.

Best ways IMO are to be a merchant (buy low, sell high) or be a crafter of high end items.

 

[Draxous]

Tell me why we need Faction, IMO Faction do nothing good to Siege.

I and many others have many times and you choose to ignore what we say to you.

You don't say factions hurt the economy? Then what's all this "business for crafters" you keep crying about? You say "In the old days" but you're completely off on what the old days were like.

Being red has not changed one bit from the old days to now. Not one bit.

Your constant illogical ranting reminds me of the crap you used to spew about NEW. You have this habit of being spiteful even when you're wrong.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong and faction items are here to stay.

 

[Draxous]

I only hope this clears things up for you, and we dont get another 10 pages on how you think faction arties are made by the devil.

One can only hope.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I disagree. I think killing people and selling their suits back is the most profitable.

=)

 

[Førsaken]

I disagree. I think killing people and selling their suits back is the most profitable.

=)

 

[FrejaSP]

I disagree. I think killing people and selling their suits back is the most profitable.

=)

And maybe what make some players give up as they can't affort time/money to new suits (I'm not speaking about me as I rarely die as I rarely PvP or only fight for fun)

 

[Freelsy]

And maybe what make some players give up as they can't affort time/money to new suits (I'm not speaking about me as I rarely die as I rarely PvP or only fight for fun)

Which is exactly why faction artifacts are amazing. If they could be made a lil lower cost anyone and everyone would have access to good cheap artifacts!!! Just gotta be in factions!

 

[Tjalle]

My primary concern with the farties is that if a player wants the most powerful items he just goes and "buy them from an NPC".

That way of obtaining them has no place on Siege.

Another issue is that since they were introduced the PvPers have been spoiled with all the mods they can fit in on a char so if they die and lose the equipment they refuse to wear anything less. Hence the crying about buybacks and such.

If you die, just equip some other stuff (runic and/or imbued pieces) and get back into the fight. But oh no, can´t do that can you? And this takes us to the crying about how you guys have to farm for XX amount of hours to be able to fight again (see Kage´s PM).

So the thing is that since they introduced them, the bar was raised, the players got spoiled and pro and con-fartie people will never come to an agreement.

But since they are here, if you want stuff as good as that, you´ll have to pay the price. Keep the costs as it is.

Cuz after all it´s just like T'Challa said: If you can´t afford to lose it, don´t wear it.

 

[hukor]

What would b awesome is if they made it so they had to be crafted by a faction crafter and made with silver.
Then have them turn to silver upon death at maybe half return.

 

[Chardonnay]

Waiting was half the fun now it's just ****ing lame...

 

[Draxous]

My primary concern with the farties is that if a player wants the most powerful items he just goes and "buy them from an NPC".

That way of obtaining them has no place on Siege.

Ok... and?

The Devs are not going to tailor this game to Siege. This is how it was done on all the other shards... they wont change it just for us.

Another issue is that since they were introduced the PvPers have been spoiled with all the mods they can fit in on a char so if they die and lose the equipment they refuse to wear anything less. Hence the crying about buybacks and such.

If you die, just equip some other stuff (runic and/or imbued pieces) and get back into the fight. But oh no, can´t do that can you? And this takes us to the crying about how you guys have to farm for XX amount of hours to be able to fight again (see Kage´s PM).

So the thing is that since they introduced them, the bar was raised, the players got spoiled and pro and con-fartie people will never come to an agreement.

But since they are here, if you want stuff as good as that, you´ll have to pay the price. Keep the costs as it is.

Cuz after all it´s just like T'Challa said: If you can´t afford to lose it, don´t wear it.

Thank you for yelling at all the people who this fix would be aimed at helping... for trying to make sure factions doesn't become more practical for them. More accessible to more players.

Guys like Kage (even though you try to lump him in there) are still running the gear and will continue to whether they change the silver prices or not.

I'm glad you non-pvpers like to chime in on whats good and bad for pvp on this shard. I look forward to ****ing with your role play attempts as a big thank you for ****ing with my pvp.

 

[FrejaSP]

My primary concern with the farties is that if a player wants the most powerful items he just goes and "buy them from an NPC".

That way of obtaining them has no place on Siege.

Another issue is that since they were introduced the PvPers have been spoiled with all the mods they can fit in on a char so if they die and lose the equipment they refuse to wear anything less. Hence the crying about buybacks and such.

If you die, just equip some other stuff (runic and/or imbued pieces) and get back into the fight. But oh no, can´t do that can you? And this takes us to the crying about how you guys have to farm for XX amount of hours to be able to fight again (see Kage´s PM).

So the thing is that since they introduced them, the bar was raised, the players got spoiled and pro and con-fartie people will never come to an agreement.

But since they are here, if you want stuff as good as that, you´ll have to pay the price. Keep the costs as it is.

Cuz after all it´s just like T'Challa said: If you can´t afford to lose it, don´t wear it.

Agree 100%

 

[Freelsy]

Agree 100%

Of course you would. I love how to never replied to Hugis thread. Every damn word he put in it was perfect and true. You're are too stubborn to admit it.

 

[IanJames]

Well now that this has left the realm of discussion and has entered the realm of name calling and threats....

IBTLrolleyes:

 

[FrejaSP]

Of course you would. I love how to never replied to Hugis thread. Every damn word he put in it was perfect and true. You're are too stubborn to admit it.

I do not agree with him.
So many thing wrong with them
Faction arties should not be brought from npc's
Faction arties should not have owners
Faction arties should not be more powerful than a 200-300k imbued suit
Factions artifacts should break after a while.
Then you can lower the price

You pin all your problems on faction artis, when in fact you should be crying about SOULSTONES. These are what killed your beloved crafters, and farmers. Now if the pvpers want to craft something they just switch out skills, and the same goes with farming. The pvpers have decided not to pay someone else to do something that they can now do. This is why alot of crafting vendors dont move alot of stuff anymore.

Why would someone use hours for gathering resources and craft stuff when he rather want to PvP? Sure he may do if he want upper stuff but alot would buy from crafters if the shop was there or they did know a crafter who would take orders and make them 10 suits with the mods they want.
Crafting take alot more time now than when you just needed the leather or the ingots to make a suit.

Well guess what take out faction artis and nothing is gonna change. The head piece will be sammy helms again, chests will be rbc or hotl, legs will be feys, and orni will be blessed. What changed nothing. So we will just be back to high priced artis again. Which will make even more people not want to pvp.

That do not scare me, there was alot more PvP when your guys was using this items.

 

[FrejaSP]

Well now that this has left the realm of discussion and has entered the realm of name calling and threats....

IBTLrolleyes:

Don't worry, I know name calling shows up when the poster can't find better to say

 

[Black magick]

Faction arties should not be more powerful than a 200-300k imbued suit

The sheer stupidity of this is baffling. Why would faction arties only be as good at a suit like that when pre-faction arties the RBC was at least 750k alone. This statement alone makes the rest of your post irrelevant.

 

[FrejaSP]

The sheer stupidity of this is baffling. Why would faction arties only be as good at a suit like that when pre-faction arties the RBC was at least 750k alone. This statement alone makes the rest of your post irrelevant.

Because faction artifacts are npc brought, they should not even exist.

Good night

 

[Hugibear]

Freja again you are just showing your ignorance by assuming most of us pvpers dont farm. We farm for the items we need to craft or we buy them. This is what I told you in my post, i see you didnt want to understand that part.
Your biggest problem is you are assuming everything about the pvpers of today, well guess what your assumptions are all wrong. You cant just make a suit and expect everyone to buy it. Now that you can choose the mods you want everyone wants something different.
Another thing you are telling me how to craft, ahhaha I would bet that most pvpers know more about crafting than the so called "crafters" of the shard.

And this "there was alot more PvP when your guys was using this items. " referring to the reg artis, instead of faction artis. I see you didnt get the point alot of people quit because they couldnt get the gear because those with money bought them all up. That is why the pvp population started to die out. You need to realize that the population just didnt one day lose half of its people. It was a slow process that started with SA and has continued till today, and the reason being is pvp is item based. And what happens when you take out the items or make them very difficult to get and you lose them in a split second. You get people rage logging and they just dont come back.

As for Tjalle, he thinks obtaining faction artis is easy. Ok pal the usual 4 arties people wear =s about 70k silver at 12k per hour to farm. Which is the max, this will take about 5-6 hours to farm. That is if you dont caught and killed. I dont see how that is easy, sure it is easier than before. But the devs tried to level the playing field but giving everyone access to good gear. And I havent seen anyone post anything about buybacks on this board in some time now. I see more stupid stories about crap I know nothing about but hey dont see me pancakes about that do ya.

 

[Freelsy]

Why did it take so long for someone to craft three pieces for Critical Gaming and Soulweaver? They asked for someone to imbue them pieces and the posts were bumped over and over.

Where are your crafters at? people farm stuff to save on costs, especially if they have a way of doing it themselves.


Also, on your 200-300k suit. My ring costs over a mill Faction arties are good.

 

[Hugibear]

Because faction artifacts are npc brought, they should not even exist.

Good night

I guess the tokuno arties shouldnt exist either since they were traded into a npc. Or do they get your super duper exception because you said so?

 

[Draxous]

Because faction artifacts are npc brought, they should not even exist.

Good night

This reminds me of how you treated NEW a few years ago. Senseless.

Faction artifacts are here to stay. Monster loot isn't getting a boost and you all can get **** on until they close down this place.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Yeah, nobody ever made that suit asty.

I've been farming faery dust and seeds of renewal so I can make it myself. These crafters are useless.

BTW - BUYING SEEDS OF RENEWAL (plantgrowers, this is your chance to make bank! People with gold wanting to buy high-end suits is good for the economy!)

 

[Tjalle]

As for Tjalle, he thinks obtaining faction artis is easy. Ok pal the usual 4 arties people wear =s about 70k silver at 12k per hour to farm. Which is the max, this will take about 5-6 hours to farm. That is if you dont caught and killed. I dont see how that is easy, sure it is easier than before.

Not sure where you got the "easy" part from but I suspect it was from this:

My primary concern with the farties is that if a player wants the most powerful items he just goes and "buy them from an NPC".

which in a way I can understand. No, not easy, more like cheesy and/or lame.

I guess the tokuno arties shouldnt exist either since they were traded into a npc. Or do they get your super duper exception because you said so?

You make a good point here.

But then again, I wouldn´t mind if they removed the trade NPC and made something else out of it if we evr get a ToT4.

 

[Sturdy]

Of course it's relevant. We are currently in a time when you can't use crap gear to pvp. If you go to a prodo shard most pvpers are decked in suits that would make a casual pvper cry. They can do that with insurance, and since we don't have insurance it only makes sense to make the items easier to get.
You don't seem to get that should faction arties be removed the rich players of this shard are going to absorb every good item they can get their hands on. They can pay more than the average player so prices for items are what they can afford, and it sure as hell isn't what an average player would want to pay to try to compete.
Your thinking stems from the idea that we can all play with entirely crafted suits. This mode of thinking is pretty misguided and doesn't take into account all the things that a pvper would need. Sure you can get 30 dci off of jewerly but that still only makes you mediocre as far as gear is concerned. With hld 60 dci is a minimum for anybody really wanting to do good. (all this is from a mage standpoint btw) Surely, you can see the problem now?

1. "you can't use crap gear to pvp."
Removing faction artifacts just changes what constitutes crap gear. The tier below faction artifacts is actual artifacts and fancy imbued gear. I am all for rich player pvping in suits of artifacts. Then when they die people can take and use the gear.
2. Rich player will get all the fancy gear. Yeah I guess that is true- unless two poor player gang up on a rich one and steal it?
3. Play in crafted suits. Yeah why not? I think crafted suite with the odd artifact are the most entertaining. The gear is accessible, there is a big value spread, the risk vs. reward is balanced, and it creates a more active community.

Is this really just about exclusivity?

 

[Freelsy]

1. "you can't use crap gear to pvp."
Removing faction artifacts just changes what constitutes crap gear. The tier below faction artifacts is actual artifacts and fancy imbued gear. I am all for rich player pvping in suits of artifacts. Then when they die people can take and use the gear.
2. Rich player will get all the fancy gear. Yeah I guess that is true- unless two poor player gang up on a rich one and steal it?
3. Play in crafted suits. Yeah why not? I think crafted suite with the odd artifact are the most entertaining. The gear is accessible, there is a big value spread, the risk vs. reward is balanced, and it creates a more active community.

Is this really just about exclusivity?

Let me kill your dream.

1. If they don't have faction gear. regular items will be hero/evil dyed. Non-factioneers wont be able to use.

2. For the 1,000,000,000,000th time if you equip like **** in this game, you're going to get stomped. Its the rule of the land. Its a different game. However, if they did kill them, look back to rule 1. Their gear will be hero/evil dyed.

3. We do play in crafted suits! What the hell are you guys thinking we run in? Complete arty suits? wtf. Currently, suits are more than 3/4 made up of crafted gear. The other artifacts are "not in supply" like they are on other shards. No one sells, and no way of getting them anymore. (cursed that is.) Also, all the regular get you'd loot would be faction dyed.


In the end, the non-factioneer receives no more bonus after a deletion of faction artifacts than what we currently have.

 

[Draxous]

Of course it's relevant. We are currently in a time when you can't use crap gear to pvp. If you go to a prodo shard most pvpers are decked in suits that would make a casual pvper cry. They can do that with insurance, and since we don't have insurance it only makes sense to make the items easier to get.
You don't seem to get that should faction arties be removed the rich players of this shard are going to absorb every good item they can get their hands on. They can pay more than the average player so prices for items are what they can afford, and it sure as hell isn't what an average player would want to pay to try to compete.
Your thinking stems from the idea that we can all play with entirely crafted suits. This mode of thinking is pretty misguided and doesn't take into account all the things that a pvper would need. Sure you can get 30 dci off of jewerly but that still only makes you mediocre as far as gear is concerned. With hld 60 dci is a minimum for anybody really wanting to do good. (all this is from a mage standpoint btw) Surely, you can see the problem now?

1. "you can't use crap gear to pvp."
Removing faction artifacts just changes what constitutes crap gear. The tier below faction artifacts is actual artifacts and fancy imbued gear. I am all for rich player pvping in suits of artifacts. Then when they die people can take and use the gear.
2. Rich player will get all the fancy gear. Yeah I guess that is true- unless two poor player gang up on a rich one and steal it?
3. Play in crafted suits. Yeah why not? I think crafted suite with the odd artifact are the most entertaining. The gear is accessible, there is a big value spread, the risk vs. reward is balanced, and it creates a more active community.

Is this really just about exclusivity?

1. not if it's hero/evil dyed! You dip****s haven't been able to use faction gear since Siege was born 10 years ago... DIRP DEE DIR
2. So dumb I don't know how to explain that this already happened many times over.
3. Again, just as stupid of a thing to say. Risk versus Reward is off tilt and you're sitting there trying to tell the world that it needs to lean even more for it to be balanced.

Please. Those of you who are trash at PvP, please keep your nose out of PvP related things. PvPers don't screw with your thievery or your role play because they have no place commenting on it. Try to return some of the respect you're given?

Thanks.

 

[FrejaSP]

Let me kill your dream.

1. If they don't have faction gear. regular items will be hero/evil dyed. Non-factioneers wont be able to use.

Then remove the option to hero/evil dry imbued and artifacts
Second, can't we unraw faction dyed stuff?

In the end, the non-factioneer receives no more bonus after a deletion of faction artifacts than what we currently have.

I'm sure it will help the shard alot to remove this overpowered items from the shard

 

[Shalimar/Cleo]

All this toing and froing is getting nowhere.

I rummaged through posts going back to March, because I remembered a post by Tibs which made the most sense, and to me... it still does. He had no 'personal' agenda with the bolded statements, it includes everyone, so If I'm missing something, someone please enlighten me. (I don't follow all the discussions, so if we have been told Tibs suggestions were not possible by the Devs, my apologies)

22 March 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
Cursed arties pissed me off quite a bit when i returned back in 08.

Why? Because I could not farm them nor afford to pay 300k per item for them.

Then faction arties came about; cool. I was finally able to regularly run my mage with more than 25 dci......

Then some cry baby whined about the cost which is ultimately what led to all the crying about sell backs/buy backs; had the cost stayed the same as prodo then either buy back prices would be lower, people would just go spend an hour and farm up a new suit, or purchase silver much less expensively than what it currently goes for.

leave the faction arties alone
add cursed arties at an increased drop rate
Lower silver prices or increase silver drops to 5x prodo

Then let the player decide if he wants to go the faction/silver farming route or the non faction random critter farming route. Imbuing will play a critical role in all of it.

This was what I said then and it's still my opinion:

Shalimar replied:
I don't pvp, but at this stage of the game, the statement above is the only thing that makes any sense to me. He's not being selfish, and not trying to get rid of anything someone else enjoys.

I've never been a fan of factions, items, or many of the things we've had introduced to Siege over the years, but I don't expect to pick and choose the way the game 'evolves' according to my own preferences. It's very difficult to take something away without objection, so the only solution is to give something more and hope it balances the game for those who are without the means to properly compete...and don't want to join factions.

P.S. I think everything to make/obtain decent armour and weapons should be much cheaper and easier to access for everyone, then there would be no need for anyone to moan and groan, perhaps we'd see more players in game rather than on here.

 

[Mr.StinkyPants]

that sounds good to me

 

[Førsaken]

Shalimar, the bold print of suggestions you're referring to have been said by myself and others that have seen this to be the way to go. Sadly, when it comes from someone such as myself, a person people consider to be an "elitist", a "win at all costs" type person-It gets tossed around, twisted, and turned to some new rant.

These ideas are a broken record that seem will never be fixed. Too many people cry to remove items in UO, then to learn and adapt. Items are here to stay; They are for allowing numerous templates to be created and played the way they are meant to. Everything has its counterpart, you just have to be willing to play TODAY'S UO to do it.

I can't help but think...will this community ever wake up? It's my belief that all the naysayers and people wanting to delete items are the cancer to this server. You push me and people like me away. (Sure, say good riddance, but I give sport to anyone wanting competition and this type of game play, as they do for me.)

Everyone needs to try and understand that we don't want things easier for just us, we want them easier for all. So try to choke these down if you will:

What's so bad about re-implementing cursed arties at a higher drop rate along with marties?

What's so bad about lowering faction cost so everyone has equal chance at competing with the same gear?

What's so bad about Factions receiving added incentive to join due to better gear?

I see nothing wrong with any of these and yes, you have to build templates and your suit differently when non-faction, but that's you choice and it can be done. (It then comes down to the player, because gear only gets you so far and I'm sorry, but I don't know a single person on SP that would win just because he/she had faction arties and I didn't). Why choose this way though? Is there fear of dying? Reputation? Dislike of stat loss maybe? Because the ease of equipping would be easy on everyone if you just allow it...

Who knows, maybe you could poll the idea of shortening stat loss timer and non-pvpers or people wanting to learn more pvp could do so without wasting 20 minutes each death. You have to be willing to learn though, if not, you would still have the cursed arties at will.

Just food for thought I guess. Take it as you will...

 

[Draxous]

Shalimar, the bold print of suggestions you're referring to have been said by myself and others that have seen this to be the way to go. Sadly, when it comes from someone such as myself, a person people consider to be an "elitist", a "win at all costs" type person-It gets tossed around, twisted, and turned to some new rant.

These ideas are a broken record that seem will never be fixed.

I can't help but think...will this community ever wake up? It's my belief that all the naysayers and people wanting to delete items are the cancer to this server. You push me and people like me away. (Sure, say good riddance, but I give sport to anyone wanting competition and this type of game play, as they do for me.)

Bingo.

They never hear any of us saying good bye or good riddance, but they throw that around like it's nothing.

So to the cancer of siege: say good bye and good riddance one more time people... but say it to Siege.