Greater Dragon Nerf?

[Madrid_ls]

How bad is the Greater Dragon Nerf? Just saw it in the patch notes. If they nerfed the Greater Dragon are they going to drop the required control slots?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

What Patch notes?

 

[Madrid_ls]

What Patch notes?

This was cut and paste from the bottom of the patch notes for today.

Misc
 Added two new stable slots for those with the SA Entitlement
 Help/Stuck will send Britannians in the Abyss levels back to Britannia, Gargoyles back to Ter Mur. If the Britannians are in Ter Mur, they’ll be sent to the Royal City in Ter Mur
 Great Dragons have been adjusted to reduce their damage output <--- Hidden nerf?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Great Dragons have been adjusted to reduce their damage output

Yeah I just read through the entire Patch Notes and saw it at the end.

*Shrug*

No clue, but I am quite sure the "I hate tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" will be hooting and a hollering at the discomfort they have caused others.

One can only hope we do not have a Reptalon Version 2.0 AKA Greater Dragon and can hope that the Dread Warhorse, Cu Sidhe and Greater Hiryu are not nerf'd to be below a Reptalon.

And so the pendulum swings yet again.

 

[Salya Sin]

You have got to be kidding me. It's a 5 slot pet... so it's been reduced to what but still using 5 slots?

I say tamers go on strike... refuse to do another spawn with anyone and see how they hold up against the big bosses without that GD taking most of the damage!

 

[guum]

Has anyone actually *tried* their greater yet to see what the nerf looks like? I can't do any serious playing from where I am right now, but I lored several greaters in Luna and the stats look unchanged.

 

[Madrid_ls]

Just another way for them to chase yet more ppl away from the game.

 

[Wenchkin]

Has anyone tested their greater dragons to see what has changed yet?

I think it's a little premature to complain about a change when we don't know what it actually involves. Just as it's too early for those of us who don't like greaters to celebrate.

Wenchy

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

You have got to be kidding me. It's a 5 slot pet... so it's been reduced to what but still using 5 slots?

I say tamers go on strike... refuse to do another spawn with anyone and see how they hold up against the big bosses without that GD taking most of the damage!

One really does need to be patient and see what the Nerf really is. If anything, in the UHall forum, there is a thread announcing the patch notes.

I have tried to ask questions there oy Draconi, who said they would be happy to answer all questions regarding the patch notes as they were just bullet points in a document.

I would STRONGLY suggest you think through your questions, be respectful and ask meaningful questions vs rhetorical questions thinly disguised as complaints.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

rofl

Greater Dragon Nerf 1.0:
* Damage cap of 130 (Melee and Breath Attacks)
* Special attack change 10%, instead of 20%
* Special attacks fire no more than once every 30 seconds
* Breath fires no more than once per 45 seconds
* Breath and special attacks will never fire less than 15 seconds apart
* Tamers which are hidden and flagged aggressor against another player will be revealed when their dragon breath attack hits the player

Ok, *Looks nervous at the 1.0*

I would disagree with the 130 Cap, only because it was not all that frequent, and yes I realize that argues against my position as in, well if it isn't all that frequent it isn't all that big a deal.

The only other point is the Special Attack change to 10% from 20%, quite honestly this one is a mile over my head, not only in terms of "Special Attack?" but what was changed about the "Special Attack?" was it Frequency, duration, damage? Any help here would be appreciated.

 

[Berethrain]

I would disagree with the 130 Cap, only because it was not all that frequent, and yes I realize that argues against my position as in, well if it isn't all that frequent it isn't all that big a deal.

You have got to be kidding me. It's a 5 slot pet... so it's been reduced to what but still using 5 slots?

It was way overpowered and should still be 5 pet slots.

 

[Frey Wavestrider]

We will have to see what it means, if it means a greater does the damage of a regular dragon or a great now cannot do enough damage to be of use at champspawns or peerless then it is too much. For PVP they may and I said may have been way over powered. But they had alot of limitations. Best part of the nerf was the reveal part. The fire damage I never had as an issue when I was hunting them with my pally, it weakens with time and distance.

 

[guum]

Yeah, the reveal part I'm totally fine with, as I don't PVP with GDs. PvP Tamers have other options anyway...the rest of it does affect PvM though. I'm curious to see what effect these changes will have in that venue.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

What does the 10% vs 20% refer to? Damage? Duration? Both?

Oh wow, sorry, I didn't explain that well enough.

This is about rate of occurence. Most super boss-mobs in the game have a rate of occurence of 20% (1:5 hits unleashed a special move). The fact that the Greater Dragon kept this after being tamed was insane.

We've effectively halved that occurence rate to a much more acceptable rate of 10%, which is still upper-end, but not out of the range of other pets.

Another clarification.

 

[Berethrain]

It was overpowered for PvM and PvP. Nothing should be killed as easy as it was with one.

 

[Bardie]

You have got to be kidding me. It's a 5 slot pet... so it's been reduced to what but still using 5 slots?

I say tamers go on strike... refuse to do another spawn with anyone and see how they hold up against the big bosses without that GD taking most of the damage!

someone call the waaaambulance?

finally the GDragon has been

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Yeah, the reveal part I'm totally fine with, as I don't PVP with GDs. PvP Tamers have other options anyway...the rest of it does affect PvM though. I'm curious to see what effect these changes will have in that venue.

Most of this is changing the parameters of Damage Over Time.

The net effect of this is to extend the amount of time a Tamer will be required to expend (Think of it as a Time Sink) to achieve the same goal.

*Shrug*

I really am not clear how this is going to make the game any more enjoyable for the majority of the Tamers.

I do understand the logic being applied, given the available information as to the why (aka what was the point) I am not at all sure this will improve the game play for the majority of Tamers.

I plan on taking my Greater Dragon, to a favorite proving ground, one that I am fairly confident I can judge the Greaters performance to a very close degree of proficiency, that is also very taxing on the Greater Dragon.

PS: I did provide a link in the UHall forum.Publish 60 thread to this thread.

The up side, is Draconi can read this thread or information gleaners can sum it up for them as feedback.

The down side, is it also ... can attract unwanted attention.

I am reminded of something I use to counsel new people to the original UO .....

The PKR's do what they do because they love to hear the squeal of all the little piggies they PK. That is 100% why they play the game. As in it is all they are there for, knowing they have ruined some ones day.

The best weapon vs a PKR is to ignore them, have nothing to say to them, unless it is of course on topic and within the spirit of the game. But to squeal like a little piggie is to feed them, leaving them wanting more.

 

[guum]

Yeah, I think (for me) it's less that the GD has gotten nerfed than that all the tamer haters out there "won". I'm not surprised or anything, I just found all the various "tamers are overpowered waaah" (and later the "screw you for anything at all independent of how you got it simply because you play a tamer") posts to be pretty much the essence of what I dislike about MMO communities, and it was nice to see them huff and puff in vain while it lasted. Oh well. It's been a good run. Just need to put in some thought as to what to do with my tamer now.

 

[Berethrain]

The net effect of this is to extend the amount of time a Tamer will be required to expend (Think of it as a Time Sink) to achieve the same goal.

No kidding? Join the club.

I really am not clear how this is going to make the game any more enjoyable for the majority of the Tamers.

It for once, wasn't about the tamers. Besides they are getting all the new pets, stable slots etc. How isn't it more enjoyable?

I do understand the logic being applied, given the available information as to the why (aka what was the point) I am not at all sure this will improve the game play for the majority of Tamers.

The point is that they were overpowered. That is why they nerfed them. It will certainly improve gameplay and at least give events, peerless, spawns a little more challenge which does make it more enjoyable.

Of course you're unsure if itll make it more enjoyable for you, it's a nerf to a huge overpowered advantage tamers had.

 

[Scarab]

No kidding? Join the club.




It for once, wasn't about the tamers. Besides they are getting all the new pets, stable slots etc. How isn't it more enjoyable?



The point is that they were overpowered. That is why they nerfed them. It will certainly improve gameplay and at least give events, peerless, spawns a little more challenge which does make it more enjoyable.

Of course you're unsure if itll make it more enjoyable for you, it's a nerf to a huge overpowered advantage tamers had.

you do realize that anything a tamer can do with a GD, a well-built dexxer can do faster and a bard can do (almost always) safer? the new tames are low-end. two extra stable slots are nice, but not game-improving and nowhere near an equal tradeoff. the GD was the first whiff of power that tamers have had since the control slot nerf. I can understand changes being made for PvP, but those changes should not bleed over into PvM. bleh

as for events, if this is because of people crying over the shadowlord arc, then this change is more pathetic than I thought

 

[Salya Sin]

The point is that they were overpowered. That is why they nerfed them. It will certainly improve gameplay and at least give events, peerless, spawns a little more challenge which does make it more enjoyable.

Of course you're unsure if itll make it more enjoyable for you, it's a nerf to a huge overpowered advantage tamers had.

You're kidding right? And if they wanted to "nerf" the sampire template would you be all for that too? I've read pages of people who can solo spawns with that template... liars? Or overpowered? I just don't understand why all of you are so ridiculous about this. OF COURSE EA would do something... all of you do nothing but complain about it. Enough threads = do something. Doesn't make you right..

That said...
I could understand tempering them a bit for PvP... that much damage is a bit much in one hit. I've been attacked in Fel Moonglow bank by someones GD... so I get it. BUT... I've also been hit by a Cu during a champ raid... that hurt ALOT!

The crying about GD's damage meaning the tamer gets all the loot? I can tell you with all honesty... I've done peerless and champ spawns with my guild for months now. 2 tamers with GD's.. one almost legendary mage and one legendary dexer.. several lower mages and dexers included. The tamers? NEVER GET A THING... The Dexer and the Mage ALWAYS get drops. That GD did nothing but allow the other players to play... and I hope that will still be the case.

But I agree that this did nothing more than allow all the haters an area to gloat and be even more rude. I wish they had done the change and just not told anyone... I bet the anti-tamer crowd would still be complaining.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Yeah, I think (for me) it's less that the GD has gotten nerfed than that all the tamer haters out there "won". I'm not surprised or anything, I just found all the various "tamers are overpowered waaah" (and later the "screw you for anything at all independent of how you got it simply because you play a tamer") posts to be pretty much the essence of what I dislike about MMO communities, and it was nice to see them huff and puff in vain while it lasted. Oh well. It's been a good run. Just need to put in some thought as to what to do with my tamer now.

I think it is of note, so I will bring this up.

"Greater Dragons Nerf 1.0"

Now then the Nerf is set in stone, it is history, in the past.

Now then the 1.0 marks the point.

It has two paths, one path is 1.0 stays 1.0 for ever.

One path is 1.0 turns to 1.1.

This change can be a further Nerf of the Greater Dragons

OR

It can be a restoration of the Greater Dragons Power.

I think it fair to say, we have some input to what happens next.

It is not at all unreasonable to connect these dot's.

Throw down a stake and call this a Greater Dragon.

Evaluate and see if it is to powerful.

Ok, it seems to be, maybe, lets put down another stake and call this a Greater Dragon.

Evaluate and see if we nerf'd it to much.

I will repeat myself, I think we have a say in what happens next.

 

[FusionX86]

Wow the lack of logic behind the tamer haters is scary. The fact that people hate tamers is much worse than the nerf and makes even less sense...

1. Pi$$ off a LOT of people to make a FEW happier?
2. If it's so OP, how about you start a tamer and have fun with it too instead of crying and complaining about it?
3. People rely on greater dragons for a lot of encounters in the game. How about you show gratitude and enjoy what they bring instead of cutting them down?
4. How did a GD at the previous strength level hurt you exactly?

It takes a lot of work to get to the point of being able to control a GD and still there are other tamplates that do more damage. I'm so very sorry that it hurt your feelings though...really!

 

[The Fallout]

And if they wanted to "nerf" the sampire template would you be all for that too?

Quick note: Sampires were first indirectly nerfed with the change to leech weapons (which I think was stupid, hit leech sucks now imo) and directly when they made it so you had to keep the 99 necromancy to stay in vampire form. Also the nerf to evasion (which again was stupid imo) hit them a lil hard too.

 

[Frey Wavestrider]

Ok tried the nerf'd greater on swoops, something I would do regularly to train them and get gold. So I had a good idea on what damage and speed should be involved. First, when only using magery and firebreath, time to do swoop is more than doubled. When using physical attack also it improves by about 25 %. Currently either of my cu's can do more damage than my greater and do it faster. My rune beetle does more damage quicker using magery. I know this was to make them less powerful in PVP. But the nerf will hurt PVM alot. My dread is also better now again swoops. I have seen a pally take a swoop down in around 2 minutes. The GD now is doing it in 12 to 20 minutes.

I had a guild mate take his cu to wind when I started at swoops by the time I had killed my first swoop he had made nearly 60000 gold. As I said previously I know that they were overpowered in PVP but then again so are archers, sampires and any other template that can kill you in full 70's in two hits. Draconi I ask you to rethink the damage done to monsters. Or reduce the number of control slots. GD were give 5 control slots because of their power, now they are effectively nerf'd to the level of a dread or at most a cu. Both of those pets do more damage now and need less slots.

Those against the tamer template say about time. Maybe but it should be fair. If you cut damage that much for a GD then no one in game should be able to two hit any player. Also, I gather this does not apply to the wild dragons. I never saw the need for a major nerf, but then I and alot of other pally PVM's have tilted with greaters and lived by using various strategies including realizing that the horrible fireball would time out and a running player can keep ahead of it until it did. The fireball also would do less damage the further it travelled. Timed right you would be hit for maybe 7 or 15 damage while you got to hits with a dragon slayer for 100 damage each time. Not a pvp tactic but a pvm one. The tactics are different and so are the uses, the current nerf affects both styles and one the PVM takes the bigger hit.

I know the Dev's only balance PVP and not PVM but that is flat out wrong. Balance is Balance, anytime you make a change like this you have to consider PVM too. Otherwise you are telling PVM to adapt and change tactics, while telling the PVP you do not have to adapt. We will do it for you.

 

[Lord Frodo]

12 - 20 min. for one Swoop, you got to be kidding me. That is no small nerf. And it still takes up 5 slots. Way to go UO.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I too took my Greater Dragon to some well known places by me.

Ogre Lord Island were the GD needs to clear the spawn and establish control of the spawn. There are three Ogre Lords that spawn on that Island.

Succubus in Fan Dancer DoJo.

Balron in Fan Dancer DoJo.

Now I use the Enhanced Client and it may be possible that the Fire Breath Attack does NOT show up. Regardless after 1.5 hours of sheer killing I never saw a Fire Breath Attack.

Here is what I did see ... Mind you this is 1.5 hours of fighting.

1 yes ONE damage of 100+
7 yes SEVEN damage of 70 to 100
23 60 to 70.

The rest were 59 and LESS with the apparent norm of low 50's to high 40's.

I honestly went in there thinking this was a tweak, a correction to bring things into balance.

I most certainly no longer have that opinion.

The only thing that prevents a GD from being (and I mean this seriously) a Reptalon is they have NOT reduced the Resists, hit points, str, int etc ..... YET. They do have a Magic Attack.

That is the only thing that differentiates the Greater Dragon from a Reptalon.

Succubi and Balrons were able to WALK AWAY FROM THE GREATER DRAGON AND HEAL THE MAJORITY OF THE HIT POINTS BACK and the Greater Dragon could NOT KEEP UP WITH THEIR MOVEMENT and could NOT OUT DAMAGE THEIR HEALS.

This did NOT happen every time or even all the time, but it happened frequently.

At the moment I am not clear what the point of this NERF is. I really do not get the thinking.

PvP? Probably a Greater Dragon that CAN NOT KILL THE OPPONENT but the opponent can NOT kill easily unless equipped with Dragon Slayer items.

I am not very happy with this NERF (vs a correction/tweak) and I think it best I just walk away from this issue in total and consider the point of investing a lot of time and effort to bond (no not the game bond) with a pet. Create Play Styles that involve the pet's abilities, only to have the entire Tamer Play style be designed by UHall Posters that hate tamers and / or Greater Dragons.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...To say it takes 12 to 20 minutes is absolutely, blatantly false. This nerf was long overdue for those that hug drags in PvP.....

Enough said don't you think to make it clear who may be stating things more correctly.

But seriously, it is nice that you are identifying that you applaud and approve the NERF for PvP and well screw PvMr's.

And no I am not going to be your platform for trolling.

What the heck the post is gone, if it was self deleted then I will leave this, if it was mod deleted, then delete this one as well or let me know and I will.

 

[Aibal]

Ok tried the nerf'd greater on swoops, something I would do regularly to train them and get gold. So I had a good idea on what damage and speed should be involved. First, when only using magery and firebreath, time to do swoop is more than doubled. When using physical attack also it improves by about 25 %. Currently either of my cu's can do more damage than my greater and do it faster. My rune beetle does more damage quicker using magery. I know this was to make them less powerful in PVP. But the nerf will hurt PVM alot. My dread is also better now again swoops. I have seen a pally take a swoop down in around 2 minutes. The GD now is doing it in 12 to 20 minutes.

I had a guild mate take his cu to wind when I started at swoops by the time I had killed my first swoop he had made nearly 60000 gold. As I said previously I know that they were overpowered in PVP but then again so are archers, sampires and any other template that can kill you in full 70's in two hits. Draconi I ask you to rethink the damage done to monsters. Or reduce the number of control slots. GD were give 5 control slots because of their power, now they are effectively nerf'd to the level of a dread or at most a cu. Both of those pets do more damage now and need less slots.

Those against the tamer template say about time. Maybe but it should be fair. If you cut damage that much for a GD then no one in game should be able to two hit any player. Also, I gather this does not apply to the wild dragons. I never saw the need for a major nerf, but then I and alot of other pally PVM's have tilted with greaters and lived by using various strategies including realizing that the horrible fireball would time out and a running player can keep ahead of it until it did. The fireball also would do less damage the further it travelled. Timed right you would be hit for maybe 7 or 15 damage while you got to hits with a dragon slayer for 100 damage each time. Not a pvp tactic but a pvm one. The tactics are different and so are the uses, the current nerf affects both styles and one the PVM takes the bigger hit.

I know the Dev's only balance PVP and not PVM but that is flat out wrong. Balance is Balance, anytime you make a change like this you have to consider PVM too. Otherwise you are telling PVM to adapt and change tactics, while telling the PVP you do not have to adapt. We will do it for you.

BS. Either your dragon sucks or it was not fully trained. I just took one of my middling drags out after reading this post to the Weald. Sent it against a full health swoop. Fight started at 12:40:26, ended at 12:43:03. That is about 2.5 minutes for a swoop. I suggest you pick better pets or get them trained up. To say it takes 12 to 20 minutes is absolutely, blatantly false. This nerf was long overdue for those that hug drags in PvP. Imagine that, we might actually have to be TAMERS again and heal/manage rather than just utter "all kill" and sit back. Wow.

 

[Aibal]

Enough said don't you think to make it clear who may be stating things more correctly.

But seriously, it is nice that you are identifying that you applaud and approve the NERF for PvP and well screw PvMr's.

And no I am not going to be your platform for trolling.

What the heck the post is gone, if it was self deleted then I will leave this, if it was mod deleted, then delete this one as well or let me know and I will.

I'm not trolling. As my post above states, I didn't see a difference. From a PvP standpoint, I think it's fine. From a PvM standpoint....suffice it to say that GD's made a lot of wannabe's THINK they were great tamers. It's nice to actually have them have to be tamers again. No trolling intended, just my personal experiences.

Oh, and FWIW Enigma, I deleted the first one because I responded to the wrong person. My comments stand, whether you approve or not.

 

[Frey Wavestrider]

You can disagree, but I stand, I vet and I train my pets constantly and I fight with them constantly. I know what it normally takes to do a swoop and I now how long it took tonight. I also know that my cu does between 75 to 100 damage consistantly against swoops tonight I my greater never got close to that. I seriously do not think a greater is a 5 slot anymore, not when 4 slot pets do more damage. The nerf was warranted for PVP yes but it affects more than PVP and it seriously affects it. I know that my arguing for a re-look is very likely a lost cause but I will. Tamers will adapt we always do but, those who constantly cry for the nerf of tamers need to adapt too. It is about Balance and there was no balance in the nerf. It benefits one style of play only.

 

[Aibal]

You can disagree, but I stand, I vet and I train my pets constantly and I fight with them constantly. I know what it normally takes to do a swoop and I now how long it took tonight. I also know that my cu does between 75 to 100 damage consistantly against swoops tonight I my greater never got close to that. I seriously do not think a greater is a 5 slot anymore, not when 4 slot pets do more damage. The nerf was warranted for PVP yes but it affects more than PVP and it seriously affects it. I know that my arguing for a re-look is very likely a lost cause but I will. Tamers will adapt we always do but, those who constantly cry for the nerf of tamers need to adapt too. It is about Balance and there was no balance in the nerf. It benefits one style of play only.

I don't dispute your efforts with your pet. I DO dispute the 12-20 minutes comment. Unless your dragons are poor representatives or not fully trained, this is simply not a true statement. No more and no less.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
From a PvM standpoint....suffice it to say that GD's made a lot of wannabe's THINK they were great tamers. It's nice to actually have them have to be tamers again....

I don't dispute your efforts with your pet. I DO dispute the 12-20 minutes comment. Unless your dragons are poor representatives or not fully trained, this is simply not a true statement. No more and no less.

And you would know this TRUTH because you were there and timed the effort?

You have been playing rather loosely with the concept of TRUTH all the while expressing your delight and glee that PvM tamers got a HUGE nerf from their perspective.

Expressing ones opinion is one thing, claiming you KNOW THE TRUTH of some one else's experience is quite another thing.

And as you like for people to be able to express their opinions, in my opinion you are stating VOLUMES about your ... real goal. (Notice how I am not saying your not even a tamer? Why? Easy because I can not prove it ).

So you be sure to tell everyone here the TRUTH of their statements that ... hum don't agree with your STATED TRUTH.

 

[Aibal]

And you would know this TRUTH because you were there and timed the effort?

You have been playing rather loosely with the concept of TRUTH all the while expressing your delight and glee that PvM tamers got a HUGE nerf from their perspective.

Expressing ones opinion is one thing, claiming you KNOW THE TRUTH of some one else's experience is quite another thing.

And as you like for people to be able to express their opinions, in my opinion you are stating VOLUMES about your ... real goal. (Notice how I am not saying your not even a tamer? Why? Easy because I can not prove it ).

So you be sure to tell everyone here the TRUTH of their statements that ... hum don't agree with your STATED TRUTH.

You want to go watch my drag kill a swoop? You too are playing seriously with the concepts of truth (and validation). My concept of TRUTH was that waves' drags either 1.) SUCK or 2.) are not fully trained if it takes 12-20 minutes to kill a swoop after the nerf. No more, on less. Sorry if this simple concept is lost on you.

And what is my "REAL" goal here enigma? Let me know. As far as my tamers, I have two legendary, and one that is 113 actual with 120 vet and 120 lore. When you show up to see my drag kill a swoop in WAY under 12-20 minutes I'll be happy to show them AND their paperdolls to you.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

You want to go watch my drag kill a swoop? You too are playing seriously with the concepts of truth (and validation). My concept of TRUTH was that waves' drags either 1.) SUCK or 2.) are not fully trained if it takes 12-20 minutes to kill a swoop after the nerf. No more, on less. Sorry if this simple concept is lost on you.

And what is my "REAL" goal here enigma? Let me know. As far as my tamers, I have two legendary, and one that is 113 actual with 120 vet and 120 lore. When you show up to see my drag kill a swoop in WAY under 12-20 minutes I'll be happy to show them AND their paperdolls to you.

And look at your ... well for the board sake, argument style. You tell some one they are a lier because they don't agree with you and then say others should come seek you out so you can be the center of attention and how your being victimized, after all your only expressing your opinion, that anyone that doesn't agree with your opinion that Tamers should be nerf'd into oblivion, are plain ordinary liers.

Go find some other platform to .... well do the thing you call expressing an opinion, that others may call something else, but would just be told they are liers.

I am done with this

You have fun telling everyone else they are Wanna Bee's, deserved to have their world turned upside down etc. I think they will understand exactly were your coming from and what your real goal is.

 

[Aibal]

And look at your ... well for the board sake, argument style. You tell some one they are a lier because they don't agree with you and then say others should come seek you out so you can be the center of attention and how your being victimized, after all your only expressing your opinion, that anyone that doesn't agree with your opinion that Tamers should be nerf'd into oblivion, are plain ordinary liers.

Go find some other platform to .... well do the thing you call expressing an opinion, that others may call something else, but would just be told they are liers.

I am done with this

You have fun telling everyone else they are Wanna Bee's, deserved to have their world turned upside down etc. I think they will understand exactly were your coming from and what your real goal is.

Debate lost. Thanks for playing. My offer stands...you want to come watch, I'm more than willing. Explain to me how I feel I'm being "victimized"? Talk about reaches. Again, I'm STILL waiting for you to expound on what my "real goal" is (stated twice now by you lol), you are determined that you have this "real goal" pegged, but you fail to state what it is. Perhaps because....I don't have one? This isn't a "platform" for me, it's an information exchange. The fact that I disagree with Wave's comments has obviously touched a raw spot with you. Sorry. As far as your other comments...perhaps you don't like when I call BS...BS???? The only "style" I don't like is when others pretend to know what my "real goal" is without a clue wtf they are debating. Any time you wish to watch, or meet my tamers, you are welcome to PM me. Goodnight.

 

[Wenchkin]

I think it's time for one of these:



I'd appreciate it if we could try to calm down a wee bit. I know this change has hit a lot of nerves and some folks are going to gloat about it, but c'mon, we knew this was on the table. I know this is a harder nerf than many expected (myself included) but it could have been harder or affected more pets.

Let's focus on moving forward and adapting to this change. Finding out what the greater dragon is still capable of is a good starting point.

Aibal, I think you're mixing Enigma's siggy in with his post.

Wenchy

 

[Alexi]

I think it's a bit sad that the nerfs weren't directed more towards PvP, given that's where most of the discontent seems to have been.

The major upshot is that I think 'bosses' are going to be harder... maybe champ spawns too.
But they shouldn't be impossible? Lower damage output just means it will take longer.

Perhaps we could explore which templates would be better to fight this nerf:

Discord/tamers -- discord nerf made this harder against bosses, but still viable.
Necro/tamers -- corpse skin perhaps? or just for more damage?
Mystic/tamers?
Spellweaving/tamers?

 

[Madrid_ls]

Well as the person that started this. I'll just say this. I require.. and yes i do require it.. If there is a Nerf on the GD they really need to drop it to a 4 slot pet. Also all these upper elite pvpers out there.. We need to nerf those as well. Any fight that takes under stay 5 to 10 mins should be nerfed. We need to bring balance back.. I've been in many games and watched many nerfs.. But this one targeting a single skill a single pet. Thats nuts. It was a 5 slot pet because it was so good.. If you want to nerf it.. Turn it back to the way it was.. Make it un PVP problem solved.

 

[Madrid_ls]

Oh another side note, I just came back to the game after being gone 2 years and starting in 98. I have 3 active accounts. I just spent the last month working on taming and tamed my 1st GD the day before the nerf. I'll give it one week to see if they correct the nerf... Atleast adjust it or something. If not i'll remember why I left before and shut down my 3 account. might not seem like alot. But I figure when their numbers are dwindling like they are. Boardmembers find out changes are driving players away. The devs will change their tune pretty quick. We've all seen the numbers drop badly and FAST... they need to keep as many players as they can while gaining new ones. That or start looking for another job.

 

[Claninwat]

Never even bothered to get a greater dragon on my tamer. Rune Beetle/Mare ftw. Good riddance (not sure if the G.dragon is still superior but meh)!

 

[RichDC]

While i have a ridiculoously good GD, i rarely ever use him.

There are a few occasions where he is used and thats only because of his high resists. Those havent changed. A pet shouldn't be an almost invulnerable tank which the GD is/was. It is still a stupidly powerful tank due to HP and resistances.

My main pet of choice has always been and will continue to be a Beetle/bake. NO greater pre patch or post would be able to out damage those pair and with a bit of skill and care can take down pretty much EVERY mob in game!(havent tested SA mobs yet but i assume the same deal applies)

The nerf is a good thing, they are still ridiculously powerful and will still do alot of damage both in PvP and PvM, i mean you still get the 30+bite 30+breath 10% bleed and mage spells with no casting limitations. It just means you dont get a 50bite followed by an 80 breath.

 

[Berethrain]

you do realize that anything a tamer can do with a GD, a well-built dexxer can do faster and a bard can do (almost always) safer?

Stop kidding yourself. That's not even close to being true.

the new tames are low-end. two extra stable slots are nice, but not game-improving and nowhere near an equal tradeoff. the GD was the first whiff of power that tamers have had since the control slot nerf.

They weren't supposed to be that powerful.

I can understand changes being made for PvP, but those changes should not bleed over into PvM. bleh

Funny we said the GD shouldn't have bled over to PvP but since they have it's only right they nerf it for both.

 

[Alezi]

2 days after I tame a 4.1 star pet the GD gets nerfed. Anyone wanna give me a Dread War Horse on Europa so we can get those nerfed as well?

 

[Berethrain]

You're kidding right? And if they wanted to "nerf" the sampire template would you be all for that too? I've read pages of people who can solo spawns with that template... liars? Or overpowered? I just don't understand why all of you are so ridiculous about this. OF COURSE EA would do something... all of you do nothing but complain about it. Enough threads = do something. Doesn't make you right..

If they nerfed it because of the threads I'd like to think the devs also thought we were right. And that's good enough for me, plus I no longer have some newb saying all kill and doing 80-90 points of damage every 5-10 seconds.

That said...
I could understand tempering them a bit for PvP... that much damage is a bit much in one hit. I've been attacked in Fel Moonglow bank by someones GD... so I get it. BUT... I've also been hit by a Cu during a champ raid... that hurt ALOT!

Honestly if they did it just for pvp I would have been just as happy, otherwise I could care less.

The crying about GD's damage meaning the tamer gets all the loot? I can tell you with all honesty... I've done peerless and champ spawns with my guild for months now. 2 tamers with GD's.. one almost legendary mage and one legendary dexer.. several lower mages and dexers included. The tamers? NEVER GET A THING... The Dexer and the Mage ALWAYS get drops. That GD did nothing but allow the other players to play... and I hope that will still be the case.

Are you saying tamers never get loot? Then why do I get it on mine?

But I agree that this did nothing more than allow all the haters an area to gloat and be even more rude. I wish they had done the change and just not told anyone... I bet the anti-tamer crowd would still be complaining.

Only until they figured out they were nerfed.

 

[Wulf2k]

GDs shouldn't have ridiculous damage output and ridiculous survivability.

They should be tanks, or they should be damage outputters. The second that they're both, why would anybody use anything else? I'm not saying they should do next to no damage, but there has to be a balance.

And if a Swoop is taking you 10 minutes, you're doing something horribly, horribly wrong.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Appearance's can be deceiving, I certainly admit that but then there is the preponderance of evidence.

Most tamers want more pets than the old 14 or new 16. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices.

Most tamers want the pet dye's for personal expression. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices. And my personal favorite rebuttal to pet dyes, "I know what Art is, I know what good taste is, I know what is esthetically pleasing and it is CLEAR YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ANY OF THAT"

Most tamers want the Reptalon to be made useful, instead of useless. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices, from a PvM perspective.

Most tamers liked the Greater Dragon the way it was from a PvM perspective. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices, from a PvM perspective.

What follows is not directed at the class of Tamers that enjoy the play style. It is directed at demonstrating EA/Mythics viewpoint of what Tamers should be.

EA/Mythic thinks Tamers should be a class that Runs Cock Fights (Aka Chicken/Animal fights). Gives them a system to breed Chickens to create a Battle Chicken to participate in these Cock Fights. EA/Mythic gives them an offline pet storage system that has no effective limits.

The question to Draconi is just how far are you going to swing the Pendulum this time? Are you going to be known as the Architect that finally, once and for all, removed Tamers from UO as a viable class, leaving it to be viable in only one aspect. Where Tamers can pit their pets against each other to win a Bet?

 

[Wulf2k]

Are you going to be known as the Architect that finally, once and for all, removed Tamers from UO as a viable class, leaving it to be viable in only one aspect. Where Tamers can pit their pets against each other to win a Bet?

That's a little melodramatic, doncha think?

You're implying tamers weren't viable before GDs? And they were viable before the mini-nerf, but not after? All the dexers and mages are gonna laugh at you when you show up to a spawn with your wimpy little GD that can't even do 300 points of damage in an entire second?

Step back, get some perspective.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

That's a little melodramatic, doncha think?

You're implying tamers weren't viable before GDs? And they were viable before the mini-nerf, but not after? All the dexers and mages are gonna laugh at you when you show up to a spawn with your wimpy little GD that can't even do 300 points of damage in an entire second?

Step back, get some perspective.

Look Wulf2k, you came here to voice your perspective that Greater Dragons had no place in UO, that Tamers that had and used them have not place in UO.

Last I looked you expressed that opinion. Question is just how many times are you going to express the same opinion while attacking people, as in telling them what to do, what to think, how to dress etc.

Just how many times are you going to express an opinion you have already made clear.

And no, you get no more attention from me, as I said above, the down side to linking this thread and forum to the UHall thread is there will be griefers come and do everything in their power to, not just express an opinion, but to hear all the little piggies squeal.

 

[Wulf2k]

Look Wulf2k, you came here to voice your perspective that Greater Dragons had no place in UO, that Tamers that had and used them have not place in UO.

Last I looked you expressed that opinion. Question is just how many times are you going to express the same opinion while attacking people, as in telling them what to do, what to think, how to dress etc.

Just how many times are you going to express an opinion you have already made clear.

Ohhh... Kay....

Are you smoking something? Did you bring enough for the rest of the class? When did I say GDs and tamers have no place in UO?

I haven't made any of my opinions clear, beyond the fact that you're melodramatic. Snort a Prozac and calm down. The sun will come out tomorrow. You can bet your bottom dollar.

What is your obsession with piggies squealing?

"IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET OR IT GETS THE GD AGAIN!"