Greater Dragon Nerf?

[Alexi]

Just how many times are you going to express an opinion you have already made clear.

And how many times will you? We hear you're pissed off. And that you don't like this nerf. And you think that there's a gigantic conspiracy between EA and Mythic to do away with tamers. End of.

Can we move on and get some constructive dialogue? I'm pretty sure tamers can still completely own PvM, I'm also pretty sure they're going to continue to be viable in PvP. See my template thoughts above.

I really like the sound of necro/taming.

 

[Aibal]

Last I looked you expressed that opinion. Question is just how many times are you going to express the same opinion while attacking people, as in telling them what to do, what to think, how to dress etc.

Just how many times are you going to express an opinion you have already made clear.

Well, you've expressed your opinion a bunch of times in this thread at the same time you've attacked multiple people. Pot...meet kettle. Lay off the drama...sheesh.

 

[guum]

I think it's a bit sad that the nerfs weren't directed more towards PvP, given that's where most of the discontent seems to have been.

dingdingdingding. This is pretty much my thinking on the matter. I couldn't care less about nerfing greaters in PVP, and there are lots of ways to do it that don't affect PVM. But in PVM, the difference between a greater-toting tamer and most of the other common templates is not that significant. In fact, for certain things, GD Tamers were actually beaten badly by other classes. ABC Archers can substantially outdamage us, necro-mages can out-AOE us, and Sampires can out-survive us. I'm not saying we had it bad -- we were fine -- but we were mostly just eating a lot of backlash from the PVP crowd.

 

[Alexi]

guum, I'd be really interested to hear templates that can do more damage output than a GD-tamer. On my shard, at the recent shadowlord event, three tamers (me included ) picked up the shards of the gem of immortality ... implying no-one else knows a good template here.

 

[guum]

Are you sure that those three tamers didn't happen to be the three people who cast Armageddon? I didn't go to that event, but my understanding is that having a chunk of blackrock and being quick about saying the words was a lot more important than "normal" damage.

My ABC Archer can take down most mobs faster than my necro-tamer. My disco tamer can take them down faster, but that's more because of discord than the greater. I'm not saying the GD's damage output sucks, but I think what you're talking about is an anomaly -- during the invasion events, I nearly always beat the GD folks for getting drops from the generals, and that was almost excusively on my ABC Archer (I didn't even have a trained up tamer then). Even without the appropriate slayer bow, and frankly, with pretty mediocre gear (I couldn't afford the top end stuff when I was playing my ABC archer), I was still outdamaging the GD tamers. Really. You do a lot of damage as an ABC archer, and a ridiculous amount if you are the person to honor a mob, and a insanely ridiculous amount with perfection + the correct slayer.

 

[Scarab]

Stop kidding yourself. That's not even close to being true.

sammy's outdamage GD's in PvM. they can solo at least 90% of the game's content. if you claim otherwise, you are simply trolling

 

[Alexi]

When you say 90%, does the 10% include the really interesting monsters like champ spawn bosses, peerless etc?

Genuinely curiosity. PvM of the harder monsters on my shard is somewhat dominated by tamers with GDs (mine included). When I say 'dominated' I mean seems to only proceed when x tamers are present.

I didn't use armageddon.

I've pm'ed you, but I'm really interested: what's an ABC archer? I think it's OT here, so perhaps pm me?

 

[guum]

I've pm'ed you, but I'm really interested: what's an ABC archer? I think it's OT here, so perhaps pm me?

The thread's well into OT territory, so I doubt anyone's going to mind a quick diversion. ABC stands for Archery-Bushido-Chivalry, and those are the three main skills of the build. Template is something like:

120 Archery
120 Bushido
80 Chiv
120 Tactics
90 Heal
100 Anatomy

Rest in either meditation, resist, more anatomy, etc. Max dex, put as much stamina- and dex-increasing gear on as you possibly can (aim for 160. 180 is better), and use a big heavy bow with mana leech and preferably stamina leech. Max DI. Have at least a few MR if you don't have meditation. Honor all targets for perfection damage bonus. Spam lightning strike (this way you don't have to load up on HCI). Keep Consecration and Divine Fury up, and use EoO if it's an option. With my ABC Archer, with mediocre gear, I was hitting those invasion generals for over 200 damage per shot, with one shot every 2 seconds (and that's a pretty bad swing speed for an ABC archer), just using perfection. I didn't even have a repond slayer bow. I'd imagine that 250 DPS is not unheard of from ABC Archers who know what they're doing.

Man...this thread is making me want to dust off my archer.

 

[Alexi]

Okay, so a further advantage to tamers does emerge: you can wear luck armour (or anything else) easily? This seems to remain, even post-GD nerf. And if they've only been nudged below other templates that's not so bad. Perhaps?

 

[guum]

Okay, so a further advantage to tamers does emerge: you can wear luck armour (or anything else) easily? This seems to remain, even post-GD nerf. And if they've only been nudged below other templates that's not so bad. Perhaps?

Yeah, that's an advantage, but personally, I hate running with a tissue paper suit and luck armor. Even with peace, you're awful vulnerable if something goes even slightly wrong. Regardless, it is definitely true that the suit requirements for something like a bard-tamer are lighter than those for most other templates.

 

[FusionX86]

There has been a lot of going back and forth on this topic which is understandable, but here are two simple facts:

1. They could have nerfed GD damage against players, but not against mobs thus satisfying pvpers and leaving the PVMers to enjoy what they've grown to love.
2. GDs in PVM don't hurt gameplay for anyone. GD tamers can do some things others can't but there are other templates that can do what GD tamers can't which has already been mentioned.

I still don't see any valid reason why they nerfed them for PVM. Its obvious that other templates can do as much or more damage. Other tamplates can also solo a lot of content. How was it hurting anyone to leave them how they were in PVM?

I don't PVP much, but they did appear to be OP against player so reducing damage against players is a natural change. Fine. But why screw PVM? I just don't get it...

 

[funtime2009]

With the right attitude the gd is still the best pet in the game.

I never owned a gd for basic damage output. I kept the #2 reason as #1. Resistances. Did you know that the gd has the highest resistances in the game barring my prepatch imps with over 70-80 resists?

Damage is secondary. You still need to keep in mind some statistics related to damage:

Strength cap.
Intelligence cap.

And all the skill caps.
Stats

Hit Points Stamina Mana STR DEX INT

Maximum: 1998 130 675 1425 148 675


Resistances
Physical Fire Cold Poison Energy
Maximum: 85 90 55 60 75


Wrestling Tactics Magic Resistance Anatomy Magery Evaluating Intelligence Meditation

Maximum: 145.0 140.0 140.0 0.0 140.0 100.0 0.0

These skill caps roughly translate to maximum caps of 130 wrestle, 125 tactics, 125 magic resist, and 125 magery. Possibly add 1 point to them in case I capped low.

Remember that magery directly effects magic damage, wrestle and tactics are melee damage, and magic resist is spell damage taken reduction.

Another key point is hit points aren't as important as high skills. I own a few under 800 hit points with skills over 120.

 

[Hildebrand]

Well, they did add that pet food for 5% stat increase... so I read.

 

[red sky]

Yeah, I saw the hidden nerf too and LoL'd. I'm not sure what was nerfed yet and neither do most of the posters but hopefully all that they did was cap the fire breath at 35. They should also do that for the dread mares. Case closed if that is what happened.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Yeah, I saw the hidden nerf too and LoL'd. I'm not sure what was nerfed yet and neither do most of the posters but hopefully all that they did was cap the fire breath at 35. They should also do that for the dread mares. Case closed if that is what happened.

I supose you either missed these or do not believe anything Draconi has to say.

But here we can at least eliminate one choice, and put them together in one post.

rofl

Greater Dragon Nerf 1.0:
* Damage cap of 130 (Melee and Breath Attacks)
* Special attack change 10%, instead of 20%
* Special attacks fire no more than once every 30 seconds
* Breath fires no more than once per 45 seconds
* Breath and special attacks will never fire less than 15 seconds apart
* Tamers which are hidden and flagged aggressor against another player will be revealed when their dragon breath attack hits the player

What does the 10% vs 20% refer to? Damage? Duration? Both?

Oh wow, sorry, I didn't explain that well enough.

This is about rate of occurence. Most super boss-mobs in the game have a rate of occurence of 20% (1:5 hits unleashed a special move). The fact that the Greater Dragon kept this after being tamed was insane.

We've effectively halved that occurence rate to a much more acceptable rate of 10%, which is still upper-end, but not out of the range of other pets.

Another clarification.

There is very little doubt that what turned the Greater Dragon into a Reptalon is timing issues on these

* Special attack change 10%, instead of 20%
* Special attacks fire no more than once every 30 seconds
* Breath fires no more than once per 45 seconds
* Breath and special attacks will never fire less than 15 seconds apart

Special Attack Change 10% to 20% big nerf as it directly halved the opportunity to fire off a special attack.

When coupled with the no less that 30 seconds, you filter out N number of Special Attack opportunities.

When coupled with the No less than 15 seconds after a breath attack, you further filter out N * N number of Special Attacks.

Such that 1:10 attacks fire a Special Attack MAYBE. Ooops you loose that one because it was at 29 seconds from the previous one. You must now go back to square one.

Ok, you get one at 30 or greater. Oooops you loose because a Breath Attack was 14 seconds ago. You go back to square one.

Now then the same thing is true of the Breath attacks just sub 45 for the 30 and you get a chain of valid attacks being discarded because of the interactions between two events. As though I would voluntarily choose to do a Bleed Attack, while a Bleed Attack is running vs a Breath Attack. Yeah it makes perfect sense. Or like a Mob cast a Debuff on you that last 90 seconds, cast it again 10 seconds after the first one, oh yeah lets cast it yet again 10 seconds after the 2nd one ... repeat this until I go oom.

You end up with a Greater Dragon performing a tiny percentage of its former Special Attacks, a tiny percentage of its former Breath Attacks and Casting spells are filtered so low the GD will never run out of manna.

Were my GD use to sit at 14-25 manna in a prolonged effort, it was NEVER below 550 out 0f 650 Manna for 1.5 hours of constant fighting.

 

[Caldwin_UWF]

I use about every template there is and in any given situation I will use whatever template has the best success. I can't see that the tamer using a Greater Dragon was overpowering. In PvP I can easily out run a GD and basically lead them off and come back for the tamer. In fact, I prefer a Cu for a PvP encounter and I'm sure that a lot of you have seen the Cu / Archer combo. There were a lot of negatives to using a 5 slot pet which I thought was a great trade-off.

If the Greaters had been nerfed two months after introduction there wouldn't have been this clammer. Doing so at this late date is certainly a mistake but you shouldn't think that it will be rectified.

When players and industry representatives gather for MMO discussion at conventions like DragonCon we talk about attracting new players, keeping current players and the community. UO has a large community of 'casual' players many of whom used Greater Dragons to do peerless and non-fel champs. These are not the sort of players to spend gobs on 'Godly' armor, etc. These less than 'hardcore gamers' do spend their hard earned cash on a monthly subscriptions. And if they've plunked down their $30 on the expansion without seeing that their dragon has been nerfed at the bottom of a very long publish note. They may feel cheated.

Now the UO team has really stepped in it. They can't go back without pissing off the rabid, tamer hating, pvp crowd. No going back. What a hell of a position to have put one's self in. The launch of this expansion could have been immaculate. This will be a stain and it's not going to rub off very easily. Could have been so immaculate, too.

After giving the PvP crowd 2 new champs with evolving terrain and imbuing to create even more 'Godly' armor didn't you think you had done enough? I guess not. So the vaunted UO team tossed the PvP Script-Monkeys that will NEVER EVER use their enhanced client one last bone. Own it! Wallow in it!!! Look at them crow!!!! You're their hero!!!!

Now all you have to do is figure out how to off-load the blame.

 

[Alexi]

Hm, cool.

In PvP I can easily out run a GD and basically lead them off and come back for the tamer. In fact, I prefer a Cu for a PvP encounter and I'm sure that a lot of you have seen the Cu / Archer combo. There were a lot of negatives to using a 5 slot pet which I thought was a great trade-off.

I think a tamer who can't manage to use 'all follow me' to control their GD is pants. A CU can't bleed or firebreath, thus I would prefer a dreadmare. I've seen the dreadmare/archer combo, but far less the Cu/archer one. 5-slot is easily overcome with ninja... and I guess lately gargoyles?

One...

If the Greaters had been nerfed two months after introduction there wouldn't have been this clammer. Doing so at this late date is certainly a mistake but you shouldn't think that it will be rectified.

Two...

And if they've plunked down their $30 on the expansion without seeing that their dragon has been nerfed at the bottom of a very long publish note. They may feel cheated.

The way EA have done it leaves a lot to be desired. Were GDs nerfed in the beta?

 

[funtime2009]

A gd is not supposed to be the only damage producing variable.

Get this:

My tamer mage skills list is

magery
eval
inscription
meditate
tame
lore

And hiding so I can do my school work and train the gd at the same time in a high spawn location.

70% sdi armors with a dragon slayer spell book does now 150+ spell damage to pretame gd's. I think they buffed magery. The gd is the tank and damage eater, I am the damage producer.

Drop the whining about gd nerf. Used correctly they are excellent additions to a well made template.

They eat a lot of damage and do a lot of damage even post nerf.

Sub 2 skills in your list for music and discord and reduce the resists of your target by 30%. There is a number of things you can do to improve damage output on your toon but not your pet.

 

[Boogieman]

Hmm, I see a lot of people having an opinion about the nerf in this thread.

I see only little input from people regarding an observed difference between pre-nerf and post-nerf GD performance. Could we get more in game experiences, please?

 

[funtime2009]

Skills, stats, resists are still what they were. Melee damage apparently has been reduced from 50 to 34. Magery rate is still the same as well as magery damage. Apparently the special fire damage proc rate has been halved from 20% to 10% with second rating intervals. Check previous posts for details.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

A gd is not supposed to be the only damage producing variable.
....

I let the first statement you made about FORCING your play style on others as just being arrogantly rude.

Now tell me, exactly why I MUST BE A CLONE OF YOU IN EVERY CONCEIVABLE MANNER. If you say you never implied that, then tell me why I should care 2 rats end about your 1 size fits all Ultimate Tamer Template. If you are NOT prepared to do that, then what, you just want to come a toot your horn and say your Great and everyone else that isn't a clone of you sucks?

Now you come back and perform your perfectly circular logic supporting how YOU DEMAND everyone play your way OR HIT THE ROAD JACK. Adios There Tamers that want a pet that is balanced Defense and Offense OR Heavy on the Offense, as Mr. YOU MUST PLAY MY WAY SAYS YOUR INVALID.

I want you to show me in the ToS for UO were it says that PETS CAN NOT BE USED AS AN OFFENSIVE WEAPON. As in THE ONLY OFFENSIVE WEAPON. That they MUST BE USED ONLY FOR DEFENSE. Where are you going to draw the line there? When a Pet can NOT kill a chicken?

Support your insistence that I and others MUST PLAY YOUR PLAY STYLE with UO, EA/Mythic documents.

Want a Clue? When at the Succubus, prior to the NERF the GD took them out better than a CU. GUESS WHAT there Mr. YOU MUST PLAY MY WAY, the CU now easily out damages the GD. What your going to insist that the CU be NEFD as a Damage Mob and insist that we all MUST PLAY your way and use the CU as a Meat Shield? What next the Hiryu?, Then the Beetle? Were will it EVER STOP WITH YOU WHEN THEY ARE ALL BUNNY RABBITS, DAMAGE WISE?

As to your insistence that you have a corner on the knowledge of the NERF, you show how little you know when you assert that the Magic Damage was NOT CHANGED. It was SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED in terms of rate of casting. I would suggest that you actually go and get some Field Experience but that is pointless as you have stated the ONLY VALID WAY TO PLAY UO AS A TAMER IS TO HAVE YOUR PET BE A HUNK OF MEAT TO ABSORB DAMAGE RATHER THAN YOU. SO you make it clear you would never have a clue if they reduced the damage by a factor of 10 or increased by a factor of 10.

 

[funtime2009]

You know what? Whining like a two year old about an inanimate object in a video game is non productive. Channel your aggressions to something with a more useful outcome like your career or family life.

This is a video game. Treat it as such.

Adapt or leave. Whining is for two year olds not adults with an education.

 

[Caldwin_UWF]

I only posted after seeing how many people were upset by an almost clandestine change hidden amidst the hoopla of the SA launch. If there are this many people posting here then it stands to reason that there are a lot of people paying subscriptions that are upset.

With the competition now from browser based games UO really didn't need to go out of their way to upset their large community of casual players.

The economy is rocky as is....

And they decided to rock the boat. It will turn out to be a major blunder but it can't be changed now.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

You know what? Whining like a two year old about an inanimate object in a video game is non productive. Channel your aggressions to something with a more useful outcome like your career or family life.

This is a video game. Treat it as such.

Adapt or leave. Whining is for two year olds not adults with an education.

deleted stuff .....

Nah, you feel free to proceed and tell us all how everything is in UO. I am quite sure your assertions will be given the attention they deserve. Peace, have fun, be safe and troll away

 

[Aibal]

deleted stuff .....

Nah, you feel free to proceed and tell us all how everything is in UO. I am quite sure your assertions will be given the attention they deserve. Peace, have fun, be safe and troll away

Enigma, this is basically a simple question, no bad intent meant. How did you play your template BEFORE gdrags were introduced a year and a half (or so) ago? Just curious. Your anger over this change is disconcerting. Seriously. I would think you were effective BEFORE gdrags, and I would think you would be so now. I simply don't understand.

 

[UOKaiser]

Enigma, this is basically a simple question, no bad intent meant. How did you play your template BEFORE gdrags were introduced a year and a half (or so) ago? Just curious. Your anger over this change is disconcerting. Seriously. I would think you were effective BEFORE gdrags, and I would think you would be so now. I simply don't understand.

That's not the point. The big point whenever they give players a bone and something they can use they eventualy take it back. This goes with everything and is a big part the reason many leave UO. Whats the point of giving anybody something they enjoy if they just going to get it back 1 year-5 years later. They have to understand PVP and PVM must remain seperate. What is good for pvp doesn't make it good for pvm and vice versa. After all this time they still haven't learn this.

They should just make me a dev I be sure to keep both seperate and balance both areas the right way and not just hit the nerf button every time. Next up to nerf the next strongest pet it will be coming to uohall shortly. But wait lets see how well these mystic spells and imbued items work against pets can I say tamers will be completly out the running who knows but we will see.
When they nerf something they will make something else more powerful intetionaly or unintetionaly and so the circle continues.
They never learn.

 

[FusionX86]

I'll comment on this change as I did lady Mel with my guild a couple times last night and farmed balrons(para) for a few hours today. The change is obvious if you've spent any time with your GD previously. Can I still farm balrons and kill Mel with my guild? Sure can. Can I solo the peerless and champs I was working towards? Not sure, but at the very least it'll be harder. Some of them may not be possible anymore because of the increased time it takes to kill. I've spent tons of time farming GDs to find the right one and tons of time and gold on the right gear so that I could take on a challenge like soloing peerless and champs. I found the possibility of that completely exciting. What was so wrong with that? It wasn't like any moron with a GD can go in and take down the hardest stuff in the game anyway. It did actually take a good GD that is fully trained, the right gear and skills.

I don't know how else to say this, but...

Please modify the nerf to retain the lowered damage toward players, but revert the damage against monsters back to its original power.

This may not make every last person happy, but it should please the majority and not step on anyone's cute little toes. Is it really so much to ask?

For those that say just roll over and take it. Why? Do you just give up so easily on something that matters to you? Or maybe this change just doesn't matter to you personally that much anyway. I suspect the latter. Just because you don't care much about it doesn't mean others shouldn't.

 

[Aibal]

That's not the point. The big point whenever they give players a bone and something they can use they eventualy take it back. This goes with everything and is a big part the reason many leave UO. Whats the point of giving anybody something they enjoy if they just going to get it back 1 year-5 years later. They have to understand PVP and PVM must remain seperate. What is good for pvp doesn't make it good for pvm and vice versa. After all this time they still haven't learn this.

They should just make me a dev I be sure to keep both seperate and balance both areas the right way and not just hit the nerf button every time. Next up to nerf the next strongest pet it will be coming to uohall shortly. But wait lets see how well these mystic spells and imbued items work against pets can I say tamers will be completly out the running who knows but we will see.
When they nerf something they will make something else more powerful intetionaly or unintetionaly and so the circle continues.
They never learn.

The devs have given players MANY pets to use. My question was simple, straightforward, and to the point. What did EM do BEFORE gdrags were on the scene? My guess is he/she, like many tamers, did QUITE well. So whats the issue? The gdrag, even after "nerf", is still quite formidable. So you have to heal it a bit more or it takes longer to kill something. So? No one is "out" anything, and NOTHING was taken away from their ability to work high end content quite effectively. Perhaps they'll need more intervention from their master. Again....SO? These particular pets are still massively viable. Perhaps someone can't now say all kill to Lady M and go surf the internet, but that doesn't mean gdrags still won't be immensely effective against her. Even now, factoring in resists, skills, stats, and damage, there is NOTHING in the game from a pet standpoint that approaches them, even after the publish, from an overall "power" perspective. None.

 

[Caldwin_UWF]

Really this whole thing with Tamers and PvP went wrong when they began selling Adv Character tokens for Tamers. Taming doesn't lend itself to scripting up and a lot of ppl don't have the patience to go out and work it every day. When they brought in the tokens it led to a flood of tamers in both the PvP and PvM communities. So this whole mess is of their own making and you can bet if they have to choose between selling tokens or balance in the game. They're going to sell tokens.

Was that insightful and to the point or what?

 

[Alexi]

I let the first statement you made about FORCING your play style on others as just being arrogantly rude.

Now tell me, exactly why I MUST BE A CLONE OF YOU IN EVERY CONCEIVABLE MANNER. If you say you never implied that, then tell me why I should care 2 rats end about your 1 size fits all Ultimate Tamer Template. If you are NOT prepared to do that, then what, you just want to come a toot your horn and say your Great and everyone else that isn't a clone of you sucks?

Now you come back and perform your perfectly circular logic supporting how YOU DEMAND everyone play your way OR HIT THE ROAD JACK. Adios There Tamers that want a pet that is balanced Defense and Offense OR Heavy on the Offense, as Mr. YOU MUST PLAY MY WAY SAYS YOUR INVALID.

I want you to show me in the ToS for UO were it says that PETS CAN NOT BE USED AS AN OFFENSIVE WEAPON. As in THE ONLY OFFENSIVE WEAPON. That they MUST BE USED ONLY FOR DEFENSE. Where are you going to draw the line there? When a Pet can NOT kill a chicken?

Support your insistence that I and others MUST PLAY YOUR PLAY STYLE with UO, EA/Mythic documents.

Want a Clue? When at the Succubus, prior to the NERF the GD took them out better than a CU. GUESS WHAT there Mr. YOU MUST PLAY MY WAY, the CU now easily out damages the GD. What your going to insist that the CU be NEFD as a Damage Mob and insist that we all MUST PLAY your way and use the CU as a Meat Shield? What next the Hiryu?, Then the Beetle? Were will it EVER STOP WITH YOU WHEN THEY ARE ALL BUNNY RABBITS, DAMAGE WISE?

As to your insistence that you have a corner on the knowledge of the NERF, you show how little you know when you assert that the Magic Damage was NOT CHANGED. It was SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED in terms of rate of casting. I would suggest that you actually go and get some Field Experience but that is pointless as you have stated the ONLY VALID WAY TO PLAY UO AS A TAMER IS TO HAVE YOUR PET BE A HUNK OF MEAT TO ABSORB DAMAGE RATHER THAN YOU. SO you make it clear you would never have a clue if they reduced the damage by a factor of 10 or increased by a factor of 10.

What are you talking about? Are you insisting that every playstyle be treated equally? Does that mean that the tamer who had a viable GM taming/lore template pre-GDs could have shouted "Hey EA, you can't introduce GDs cause you're telling me how to run my life".

A dynamic game, like UO, requires change. Change affects the way you play the game, there will be new optimal templates, and other templates will become less optimal.

Are you suggesting that the game stops changing?
Or are you suggesting that there's a way that the game can change and keep everyone perfectly happy at all times?
Or are you suggesting that the devs better not mess with you in the future?

I'm puzzled.

 

[Alexi]

Can I solo the peerless and champs I was working towards? Not sure, but at the very least it'll be harder. Some of them may not be possible anymore because of the increased time it takes to kill.

I was really interested on your Lady Mel digest. And it's definitely a shame that solo champ spawns might be out.

But I'd also note: is making Lady Mel un-soloable by a tamer really so bad? She then joins the rest of the peerless in being really quite hard.

Pre-GDs were also pre-peerless days? Was my tamer ever supposed to be viable, solo, against peerless?

 

[Alexi]

Whining is for two year olds not adults with an education.

Whining appeared to be productive for the people who wanted to nerf GDs... or was that complaining justifiably?

 

[UOKaiser]

The devs have given players MANY pets to use. My question was simple, straightforward, and to the point. What did EM do BEFORE gdrags were on the scene? My guess is he/she, like many tamers, did QUITE well. So whats the issue? The gdrag, even after "nerf", is still quite formidable. So you have to heal it a bit more or it takes longer to kill something. So? No one is "out" anything, and NOTHING was taken away from their ability to work high end content quite effectively. Perhaps they'll need more intervention from their master. Again....SO? These particular pets are still massively viable. Perhaps someone can't now say all kill to Lady M and go surf the internet, but that doesn't mean gdrags still won't be immensely effective against her. Even now, factoring in resists, skills, stats, and damage, there is NOTHING in the game from a pet standpoint that approaches them, even after the publish, from an overall "power" perspective. None.

I wish it was that easy. I do alot of peerless and I hate using a gd. Am a good tamer my gd is top of the line but I die I die alot. I just use my sampire most of the time because I can take it. Sadly my goal was to make find a way to make my gd more viable but I guess I stick with my sampire and when they decide to nerf that to oblivion I will use the next best template at the time. And lady mel cu still my pet of choice.
But after all this time I wish they will learn

 

[Pedde]

You're kidding right? And if they wanted to "nerf" the sampire template would you be all for that too? I've read pages of people who can solo spawns with that template... liars? Or overpowered?

I recently returned to UO after a 5 year break and I could not believe the power of greater dragon. Coming back from WoW where nerfs are a frequent thing i could hardly imagine how such a powerful beast is allowed to roam around for such a long time. If you take a steap backwards and look at the bigger picture this is a good decision from the devs.

In my first night in Doom I saw 9 people working on the Dark Father , 9 of them were tamers with greater dragons. It is effortless and EASY.

And regarding the Dexers "that can solo spawns" These template need extraordinary good suits and weapons. The weapon alone will be multiple million GP and for a greater dragon I just need a advanced char with a few jewels to dish out comparable damage.

I just trained up a rune beetle and got an old mare. That should do the trick too. More challenging? Probably. More fun? Definatly.

 

[Lord Frodo]

To begin with I hated this nerf and the more I read the more I hated it. Then I decided to do this.

Take your GD someplace you have already been with him. I chose Swoop because that is where I did most of my training and didn't want any other monsters in the way. Swoop lasts awhile for a GD so it gave me a good idea what was up. My GD has 125+ WR and Tact and 102 Mag, does good Phy damage, and 81 Phy resist. The RNG loved me tonight because 95% of the swoops were 130+ Wr and Tact, 100+ magic resist and 85+ Phy resist. LOL

On the first Swoop he dumped all of his 610 Mana and threw fire breath about every 10 sec. 2-3 min per Swoop. He did this with every swoop after that too.

Another player showed with thier GD in training, just above 110 in Wr and Tact and was taking just a little longer then mine. Stayed there for 2 hrs and they were all dropping in 2-3 min. On Swoop we could see no differance. The other tamer didn't even know that they were nerfed until I asked them about 30 min into it if they noticed a change in thier GD. I have 10 chests full of loot from Swoop (to unravil) before this nerf. Today I could tell no differance with my GD.

The only thing I need to test is PvP. Is there any PvPers that would be willing to stand there and let my GD chomp on them to see how many chomps it takes to kill them. I promiss not to loot or accept any kill or insurance money.

 

[Alexi]

I recently returned to UO after a 5 year break and I could not believe the power of greater dragon. Coming back from WoW where nerfs are a frequent thing i could hardly imagine how such a powerful beast is allowed to roam around for such a long time. If you take a steap backwards and look at the bigger picture this is a good decision from the devs.

Uh? 'cause we want UO to be WoW? That would be lame.

The rest of your post is interesting though.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

To begin with I hated this nerf and the more I read the more I hated it. Then I decided to do this.

Take your GD someplace you have already been with him. I chose Swoop because that is where I did most of my training and didn't want any other monsters in the way. Swoop lasts awhile for a GD so it gave me a good idea what was up. My GD has 125+ WR and Tact and 102 Mag, does good Phy damage, and 81 Phy resist. The RNG loved me tonight because 95% of the swoops were 130+ Wr and Tact, 100+ magic resist and 85+ Phy resist. LOL

On the first Swoop he dumped all of his 610 Mana and threw fire breath about every 10 sec. 2-3 min per Swoop. He did this with every swoop after that too.

Another player showed with thier GD in training, just above 110 in Wr and Tact and was taking just a little longer then mine. Stayed there for 2 hrs and they were all dropping in 2-3 min. On Swoop we could see no differance. The other tamer didn't even know that they were nerfed until I asked them about 30 min into it if they noticed a change in thier GD. I have 10 chests full of loot from Swoop (to unravil) before this nerf. Today I could tell no differance with my GD.

The only thing I need to test is PvP. Is there any PvPers that would be willing to stand there and let my GD chomp on them to see how many chomps it takes to kill them. I promiss not to loot or accept any kill or insurance money.

Because of the snafu on the Reptalon, that raised the post I made asking others if they have seen any changes, I am not going to rely on a single outing to say things are good or bad, I would hope you and others do not as well.

I did return to the Balron last night as I still had some karma to make up for killing Cu's and I want to get more information spread over a longer period of time.

Last Night was not equal to the Previous Night.

I will be back again tonight and I hope tonight's experience and all the rest are in line with last nights experience.

 

[Wulf2k]

Me and another tamer took our GDs (Which, according to Enigma, makes me somebody that I think has no place in UO) to do an Oaks spawn last night. Just us two, and we beat it no problem.

GDs are powerful. They have a long way to be nerfed before EA can be accused of hating tamers.

 

[Farsight]

Because of the snafu on the Reptalon, that raised the post I made asking others if they have seen any changes, I am not going to rely on a single outing to say things are good or bad, I would hope you and others do not as well.

I did return to the Balron last night as I still had some karma to make up for killing Cu's and I want to get more information spread over a longer period of time.

Last Night was not equal to the Previous Night.

I will be back again tonight and I hope tonight's experience and all the rest are in line with last nights experience.

Judging from the reactions of friends/contacts/guildmates and forums in general, I have a sneaking suspicion that they snuck in a partial un-nerf during the emergency maintenance yesterday.

Still...
requires more testing.

 

[Kyle Orton]

Imagine that, we might actually have to be TAMERS again and heal/manage rather than just utter "all kill" and sit back. Wow.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

 

[Lynk]

I don't understand why there are so many tears.

Greater dragons are STILL the best tank for PvM. I mean, most of the time that was the drags purpose. It tanks while other people use a beetle/hiryu for armor corrupt, or an ABC archer blasts away at it.

Their damage output was just reduced, but they still hurt.

They are even still effective in PvP. I fought a group of tamers in despise after the nerf. I still got bit for 39 and fire breathed for 39, with occasional ebolts/flame strikes, and it all synched up for about 85-90 damage. It's enough to make me leave screen and chug a heal pot. But not enough to be instant death omgbbqsauce.

 

[UOKaiser]

I don't understand why there are so many tears.

Greater dragons are STILL the best tank for PvM. I mean, most of the time that was the drags purpose. It tanks while other people use a beetle/hiryu for armor corrupt, or an ABC archer blasts away at it.

Their damage output was just reduced, but they still hurt.

They are even still effective in PvP. I fought a group of tamers in despise after the nerf. I still got bit for 39 and fire breathed for 39, with occasional ebolts/flame strikes, and it all synched up for about 85-90 damage. It's enough to make me leave screen and chug a heal pot. But not enough to be instant death omgbbqsauce.

It's all about give people who wine a inch and they take a mile. It's always extra. Next thing you know the rest of the pets are nerfed and then the GD will be more nerf by caping it's damge more in pvm then ressist being caped lower. It just goes on and on.

The pvp nerf fine cause thats where it's complained about and where people have so much trouble for whatever reason lazyness my first guess but why oh lord do they need to extend it to pvm there was no complaints no problems no arguments. Seperate the servers already. Different balances for PVP,PVM,and Siege dont merge them all together. We both know this aint the end just the begining of more nerfs to come.

 

[Scarab]

A CU can't bleed?

Actually they can.

Look, I went to Miasma last night to test the change. Perhaps not the best metric since Miasma has such low hp. There was a noticeable, albeit minor difference. For pedestrian encounters, you might not even see any difference. This nerf comes into play big time against the high end content. Peerless fights that already took forever will now be neverending to the point of futility. Yes, GD's can still tank for a group. However, end game content that was challenging, yet possible, for a solo tamer before is now nigh impossible.

I've always been a soloist anyway, and all my old guildies have long ago left. So now I can't spawn or attempt a peerless anymore. Meanwhile sampires can still cycle dreadhorn or the DF to their heart's content.

My biggest issue is that this nerf seems so unevenhanded. There is so much other comparative imbalance with other templates. Further, if the aim was to tone down GD's in PvP, which I'm fine with, thenwhy use such a broad brush? Why eviscerate high end soloing in the process? All smells liKe a rushed, reactionary change. Pork, if you appreciate the political analogy.

To answer someone's question to me above: yes, I was including some champs and peerless in that 90 percent

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Actually they can.
...

I've always been a soloist anyway, and all my old guildies have long ago left. So now I can't spawn or attempt a peerless anymore. Meanwhile sampires can still cycle dreadhorn or the DF to their heart's content.

...

/Sarcasm On

Well according the pundints you are invalid and have no business playing UO.

According to another your just a loser for not having seen this and planned accordingly to take your pet rabbit to kill the peerless

But they both agree your playstyle and sense of challenge is ... well just not how UO is to be played, and it does not matter that your play style does not harm anyone in any way, difference will not be tolerated.

/Sarcasm off

I salute you, and while the group .... of what ever says that Solo Play is NOT how UO WILL BE PLAYED, I know that it is far more challenging and requires far more skill to take on Group Only Mobs and win. NOT by the exploits, cheats and hacks they use, but from actual skill.

 

[Taylor]

I don't mind the nerf. Doesn't really change how I play my tamer. Doesn't change how well my greaters tank. All that's affected is damage...and g. dragon was never my choice for top damager, anyway.

I've never used a g. dragon for PvP, either, so no heartbreak there.

I'm not really affected at all by the nerf, and if it makes PvPers happy, so be it.

 

[Wulf2k]

I know that it is far more challenging and requires far more skill to take on Group Only Mobs and win. NOT by the exploits, cheats and hacks they use, but from actual skill.

1. You acknowledge that they're 'Group Only' mobs.
2. You say it requires far more skill to take them on solo.

I then posit that perhaps, if you are unable to do everything you were able to do before the GD 'nerf', that you lack the necessary skill.

You can't say that you're skilled enough to take them on solo, then be unable to do it after the GD nerf. Did they nerf your skill?

 

[FusionX86]

And regarding the Dexers "that can solo spawns" These template need extraordinary good suits and weapons. The weapon alone will be multiple million GP and for a greater dragon I just need a advanced char with a few jewels to dish out comparable damage.

I think the part about the tamer is an exaggeration. You can't take a new tamer with mediocre gear and keep a GD alive through a solo peerless/champ fight. This would be less or more true depending on the boss of course. If you're talking about just putting out damage alright, but you can't solo something hard without defense too and that's where the tamer comes in. Good luck keeping yourself and a GD alive against a peerless while wearing crappy gear.

I love how people stereotype tamers as brainless "all kill" players. Sorry, but it does take more than just sending a GD in and then taking a nap for 30 minutes while the peerless gets beat down. Most tamers are super weak themselves and any little mishap means death for them and therefore death for the pet. It's a trade off really. You trade personal strength and survivability for strength and survivability in your pet. I just don't see the combined strength of a tamer and his pet being greater than the combined strength of a various other templates. Just because I've got my pet in front of me taking the damage doesn't mean it's a risk free battle void of any strategy, skill or "gear".

 

[Wulf2k]

Naked tamer vs. naked dexxer.

Who has the advantage?

 

[Aibal]

1. You acknowledge that they're 'Group Only' mobs.
2. You say it requires far more skill to take them on solo.

I then posit that perhaps, if you are unable to do everything you were able to do before the GD 'nerf', that you lack the necessary skill.

You can't say that you're skilled enough to take them on solo, then be unable to do it after the GD nerf. Did they nerf your skill?

Ding, ding, we have a winner. That is EXACTLY what the whining is about. The crutch is gone.

 

[HaTeSpHeRe]

Appearance's can be deceiving, I certainly admit that but then there is the preponderance of evidence.

Most tamers want more pets than the old 14 or new 16. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices.

Most tamers want the pet dye's for personal expression. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices. And my personal favorite rebuttal to pet dyes, "I know what Art is, I know what good taste is, I know what is esthetically pleasing and it is CLEAR YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ANY OF THAT"

Most tamers want the Reptalon to be made useful, instead of useless. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices, from a PvM perspective.

Most tamers liked the Greater Dragon the way it was from a PvM perspective. EA/Mythic caters to the "I hate Tamers" and / or "I hate Greater Dragons" on a topic that can have no impact on others game play and limits Tamers Game Play choices, from a PvM perspective.

What follows is not directed at the class of Tamers that enjoy the play style. It is directed at demonstrating EA/Mythics viewpoint of what Tamers should be.

EA/Mythic thinks Tamers should be a class that Runs Cock Fights (Aka Chicken/Animal fights). Gives them a system to breed Chickens to create a Battle Chicken to participate in these Cock Fights. EA/Mythic gives them an offline pet storage system that has no effective limits.

The question to Draconi is just how far are you going to swing the Pendulum this time? Are you going to be known as the Architect that finally, once and for all, removed Tamers from UO as a viable class, leaving it to be viable in only one aspect. Where Tamers can pit their pets against each other to win a Bet?

Ok No offense Dude, no idea who you are, but you have it extremely twisted. EA/Mythic has always, and i mean always catered to the Tram/PVM side to this game. You crazy ****s want more flashy items, more cool deco, more ****ing plants, i mean seriously. Thats all added to a game for you guys. Most true pvpers, would prefer no Tram. Oh but the kiddies and care bears couldnt handle loosing they kewl shiny token, so you have your blue gate. And for years and years, it has always been about how to keep you guys happy and still playing this game. Pvpers are constantly nerfed. Lets see, Death strike archers, word of death archers, tamers, i mean many more. Do you want all those temps back, cause i know i sure as **** don't. But you know once in awhile its nice to see them nerf Tram. They gave you the ability to basically make any item in game you wanted, and nerfed your dragon, and your gonna complain. Get over it. Take two super dragons, hunt with a buddy like the old days. Make the game fun again. Quit your complaining and get past it, cause really no one who has played for a long time cares to hear your non sense about how you should solo pretty much 90% of UO, cause its a 5 slot pet. Get real.