A friend's of ours who plays Atlantic told us two Orc Ships sold yesterday, one for 100 and one for 50. Acquiring rich friends is never a bad idea, and there seems to be plenty on Atlantic ;P.
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(Dev Feedback): FACTS about cannons and ships
- Thread starter hawkeye_pike
- Start date
- Watchers 5
If you like the title, feel free... but the point of a MMO, especially a 'sandbox' one like UO, is that any playstyle works, and I argue that from that standpoint there should be a way for everyone to experience those playstyles, at least at a basic level, to see if they enjoy them and want to pursue them.lol I'm a dictator for explaining what an MMORPG is? wow ... I think everyone can agree a MMORPG is designed for group play. why would you play one to play single player? that's like getting a data plan on your cell phone and never using the Internet or texts ... or subscribing to cable or dsl and only watching the local news. I guess i'll take the title of dictator as a compliment, because everyone I know and value must be one too.
If you're happy with the idea you can only do some things at ANY level by doing what some consider 'sponging off some rich friends', then that's fine - it's your decision. Some other people don't like that approach, and want there to be an alternative. Some things in a mmo are 'group play', some are social interaction, some are perfectly possible and enjoyable solo, and the rewards from each should be different - the mistake is to assume even looking at something to see if you might like it needs a group of people helping you out before you can begin. That just adds another level of barrier to people using the new toys, and I doubt the developers are keen on making really neat stuff that nobody actually plays with.
Set entry to the ship battle part of the game too high, only a few people will do it, and in a couple of months you'll see scantily populated oceans to go with the scantily populated cities, dungeons and 'wilderness' areas of the map, and people will go back to their usual tiny areas ofthe map that they currently play in. Not a 'bad' thing of itself, since they enjoy it or they would not do it - but a wasted chance at opening up a whole new area of the game.
Repairing a ship could have been done easier. Even if it would take the same resources to repair the ship, it would be better if the resources can be used from out of the bank box. I had to recall 7 or 8 times back and forward to get enough boards .
Keep in mind you only need to repair a ship to 65% in order to sail full speed.
Have you even fought a pirate?
If you're technically unable to avoid pirate ships at full speed then you might need a buffer. But pirate ships are fairly easy to avoid given a user ship is faster than a pirate ship. No reason to go back to 100% unless you're going to fight again.
So...Popps...
I mean...YOU are the person who constantly talks about how a person that doesn't have all the time in the world shouldn't be forced to group up to play UO, weren't you? That people shouldn't have to work so HARD to find a Great Pet...that you should have all kinds of Easy Button ways to tame the Perfect Pet...that you shouldn't have to spend Countless Hours taming and killing to get that perfect pet...that WAS you, wasn't it, Popps? The person that denigrated the Dev Team for making it so Random and all, as to when a person could get the Perfect Pet?
How's about them thar' Treasure Chests? You seem to think they simply MUST have ML Ingredients, or they just aren't worthwhile, as I recall.
Isn't the FUN the most important thing...NOT the Ingredients you get from the chest AFTER the fight? Or any other time or reward you might get? Like a Perfect Pet? Isn't that secondary to the Taming Fun that you can have for hours on end? If not, Popps...exactly why not would be interesting to me, indeed.
Isn't it JUST the Fun, Popps?
Shouldn't the fun you have while taming be enough? Why would a person really want anything other than the fun of taming? Shouldn't ANY pet with ANY stats be enough....and the REAL satisfaction coming from the incredibly good times to be had taming for 9 hours straight, Popps?
At least...that's how YOU see it, IYHO...right?
Both sides of the mouth...with a vengeance...you talk. And you will obviously forsake a previously vehemently held position (having to tame for Hours is BORING just to get a Great Pet) to adopt a new position (having to grind for hours to not capture a pirate and spend a couple hundred K perhaps) is Fun, in and of itself, regardless of any return for the effort that is diametrically opposed to your previous position...unbelievable.
I agree with Hawkeye and Skrag.
The Dev Team was warned about this stuff repeatedly during the Beta test.
They ignored it completely.
If the booster is to die due to their hubris, let it. Failure tends to teach more than success does, hopefully this failure will teach them that they need to listen to their p(l)ayers.
However, since they will probably only look at the bottom line (i.e. sales figures) and not 'are people actually using it AND having fun' we will have yet another system in UO that languishes.
The Dev Team was warned about this stuff repeatedly during the Beta test.
They ignored it completely.
If the booster is to die due to their hubris, let it. Failure tends to teach more than success does, hopefully this failure will teach them that they need to listen to their p(l)ayers.
However, since they will probably only look at the bottom line (i.e. sales figures) and not 'are people actually using it AND having fun' we will have yet another system in UO that languishes.
Like I asked, have you ever fought a pirate ship? If you haven't, why are you trying to give advice? rofl you really don't sound like you have a clue about the content of this booster. If you're engaged in a fight then you repair after you finish the fight. Then you get a reward. Then you repair to full. Then you fight again.
If only they could have quarantined you guys in time.
To get back to the OP, who had to shoot 50 times to demobilize a pirate ship, my crew sank one in as few as 11. Like I said earlier, I solo'd one this morning in less than 20 shots. The OP's "facts" are based solely on his experience, after one fight. That's hardly enough data. I mean, really? Facts? And not only that, but the first time you make everything you need for the cannons, well of course it's going to take a long time, because you don't know what to do. Once you know what to do it's pretty simple. Plus, there are detailed guides out there for those who easily get overwhelmed by tasks that require more than two clicks.
Back in the Galleons era, when Pirates were all over the Caribbeans, a ship with Cannons used to have a typical crew that could go into the hundreds of men (even 300-400 men for large ones...) who attended the many and various tasks needed to run those large ships.
Given their size, they were not trivial to be sailed and the loading and shooting required a lot of work handled in teams. Fast firing required a lot of training from the men involved.
If at all, the Booster Pack has made it even too easy as compared to what it was in real life........ I find the desire to run a Galleon in UO with a single sailor or a handfull of sailors just too much.
These large ships should and rightfully are the domain of TEAMS and the larger teams, the better.
As I said, perhaps the compromise that could be reached is the release of a NEW set of much smaller ships that can be soloed (as in regards to repairs, loading and firing cannons...) but that also have considerable less firepower than these Large Galleons.
N
Nh'bdy
Guest
I like the system.
Apples and oranges........
One thing is crafting, another is fighting.
While I disagree with crafters having to team up to gather crafting resources, I have no problem whatsoever in players gathering up for fights, be them PvP or PvM.
Fighting can be solo and it can be in teams. There is room for both in UO.
We already have enough areas that can be soloed and that the new Booster Pack requires Teams of players to handle ship battles I see it as perfectly fine.
Merely a minimal part of the fighting that occurs in Ultima Online.
For those who do not want to play Team fight they can simply skip the Sea Battles.
And not even that. Ships can still be soloed and sea battles fought on one's own as several players have stated. Only, it is a pain.
But it can be done, yet.
I think it is too much to ask that it should also be done easily and smoothly as if the ship was being handled by a party of 10 sailors.
Popps,
Get off the team thing. Nobody is saying ships should be a solo experience. You're beating a dead horse that has little to do with the real topic. Stop being so myopic.
Furthermore, the ships may be 'large' but a huge group will create a lot of lag and people will literally be tripping over eachother to move around. A party can only consist of 10 people, thats the limiting factor on your team right there (so everyone is rewarded).
Get off the team thing. Nobody is saying ships should be a solo experience. You're beating a dead horse that has little to do with the real topic. Stop being so myopic.
Furthermore, the ships may be 'large' but a huge group will create a lot of lag and people will literally be tripping over eachother to move around. A party can only consist of 10 people, thats the limiting factor on your team right there (so everyone is rewarded).
The funny part is that they think it can go on like this, and that anyone but a few rich kooks will keep doing it. Popps wants to make it worse by cranking the price of saltpeter through the roof as a goldsink, like this won't just kill the system even faster.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
You dont have to mine or chop them yourselves. pretty much can get 60k iron for 600k and 60k board for 200k-300k last I looked so it will take only moments. You need gold? There is aa billion and 1 ways to generate gold doing anything in the game. Best way is to sell things you don't need to other players. Leave the crafting to us crafters so you don't have to bother with it we will do it as thats mosty all we do in the game anyway. Just give us gold for our time and resources.
As for the others that don't see it on venders thats because they are bought up as soon as there stocked you need to look around and talk to people. There be more in time but many have not bought the booster pack yet and those who have are still exploring it. In a little time the venders will be stocked so you all can go and play pirate without worrying about much of the crafting process needed.
C
canary
Guest
As someone who DOESN'T have the booster, can I ask what actual in game incentive there is for tackling pirates other than 'its fun' if it cost much (plus lots of time involved), much more to build stuff to fight with than reap any actual rewards (if I am reading the posts correctly?).
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
See, I like this. I'm hoping UO goes more and more this way. There's a boatload (pardon the pun) of things in UO now, so much so that most players can't be totally self sufficient. And that's a good thing, in my opinion. This is, after all, a world in a massive multiplayer realm.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
There should be a big reward. I'm wondering if Pirate Ships should be harder too, but I haven't tried one. This can be a big thing in the world of Sosaria, if it's both very rewarding, hard to do to (this?) extent, and not a guaranteed victory.
This booster isn't dying in the cradle, honest! Everyone is buying everything up so fast, that's why you can't find any vendors selling anything!
Herf. If they were selling like hotcakes then they would be everywhere. It's not like nobody in Luna has ingots or boards.
Anyway at 10k per pirate the ships could be invincible and free and it still wouldn't be worth the time. It's the most tedious design I've seen for anything in an MMO since Vanguard flopped.
Herf. If they were selling like hotcakes then they would be everywhere. It's not like nobody in Luna has ingots or boards.
Anyway at 10k per pirate the ships could be invincible and free and it still wouldn't be worth the time. It's the most tedious design I've seen for anything in an MMO since Vanguard flopped.
They aren't hard to do, like say Slasher is. But they aren't super easy, and definately not worth the current time ivested in gearing up, getting a quest, finding a pirate, battling said pirate, getting back to the sea market and getting your paltry 10k reward (assuming you actually captured the pirate, not killed it)
I spent an hour and a half this morning making 374 heavy cannon balls and 374 heavy grape shot. Crafting them was 'easy' as all I did was clicked 'make max'. However, much to my annoyance, neither ammunition type bothered to autostack in my pack. I had to do that manually. Yay.
I was going to make the rest of the crap needed to fire cannons, but decided my time would be better spent working up Discord - since I might actually see some benefit from that.
Ugh. Vanguard. So much wasted potential...
Have you played Pirates of the Caribbean Online? Their cannons are super simple. You buy cannon balls or several different types depending on your skill level, and then you join a crew and shoot at things. That’s it. No cleaning, no priming, no extra crap needed...just fun.
While I don't think UO should be that simple, I'm not in favor of tedious realism either. Cannonballs and charges are as far as it should go. No cleaning and quick, one-step priming. (Without fuses and matches)
Ship repair should be able to be accomplished without deforesting half of Britannia or making hundreds of sheep wander their pen naked.
C
canary
Guest
Well, if they had, you know, actually bothered to beta test this more than they did maybe they would have already realized this and created a solution.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Oh yea also there looks like theres a bug putting cannon balls in lockdowns and venders. Which mean untill that is fixed you won't be seeing any canon balls for sale so will have to wait that bug out before buying from venders. in the mean tme going to have to make them or buy them directly from the players. If you know a crafter dedicated player on your shard head to them to get them for the time being.
Weird, because cannonballs are the only thing I have been able to find on a vendor. Only a very few, and overpriced at a couple thousand per, but I've seen them. It's the powder charges, matches, fuses, matchcords, ramrods, swabs, and all the other millions of bits of bric-a-brac required that I haven't seen.
Seriously, this system is like if all tmaps were level 1 and digging them up required a couple thousand ingots and boards. I bet that would be a HUGE hit.
Seriously, this system is like if all tmaps were level 1 and digging them up required a couple thousand ingots and boards. I bet that would be a HUGE hit.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
It's on another post in uhall sayijg about disapearing cannon balls. I doubt you will ever see much of the materials in venders as that's not a compleated item and not profitable as many people have charactes that can make those items from scratch. Doubt anybody will pay top gold for something that is easily made with 1 crafter type and basic materials. They gold made is in the compleated item. Any crafter can make all these basic items.
Oh, I completely agree! I was amused when they ended the beta without fixing even half the bugs remaining, then blew smoke up our buts with the obvious falsehood of '140 bugs aquashed' before the publish.
The Dev Team reaps what they sow. Rush out a low-quality product and the masses aren't going to rabble quietly.
So roll a crafter mule or don't play? Yeah, I think the crafting angle is screwed up in this booster.
YOUR DOING SOMETHING WRONG!
It only took me 45 min to make enough supplies to take out 5 pirates.....IT only takes me about 20-25 shots of grapeshot PER PIRATE SHIP!
This is doing it with an officer navigating my ship while i man all 7 cannons personally.
Also the holds on the pirate ships restock half of what i used to take it out. The major resources i get pretty much balances my costs to repair my ship.
I dont see what the problem is for people.
QFB
It only took me 45 min to make enough supplies to take out 5 pirates.....IT only takes me about 20-25 shots of grapeshot PER PIRATE SHIP!
This is doing it with an officer navigating my ship while i man all 7 cannons personally.
Also the holds on the pirate ships restock half of what i used to take it out. The major resources i get pretty much balances my costs to repair my ship.
I dont see what the problem is for people.
QFB
The main issue at the moment is the Saltpeter shortage. If that was plentiful the resource gathering time would virtually disappear. Ignots and Boards can be purchased directly from vendors if you don't want to gather them yourself.
Complex crafting is the way to bring back the crafting profession. If something takes 2 seconds, then everyone will do it. You have a choice to either spend the time making the materials or buying it from someone who does. It is unfortunate that a change made in the beta we didn't even get a chance to test (Saltpeter selling) has really damaged the initial week of the High Seas booster.
As for whether Pirates are too costly to hunt, that could easily be fixed by raising the amount of loot the ships contain. If it costs 10,000 gold in resources to repair a ship and you only get 5,000 gold in loot, then it should be changed.
Complex crafting is the way to bring back the crafting profession. If something takes 2 seconds, then everyone will do it. You have a choice to either spend the time making the materials or buying it from someone who does. It is unfortunate that a change made in the beta we didn't even get a chance to test (Saltpeter selling) has really damaged the initial week of the High Seas booster.
As for whether Pirates are too costly to hunt, that could easily be fixed by raising the amount of loot the ships contain. If it costs 10,000 gold in resources to repair a ship and you only get 5,000 gold in loot, then it should be changed.
Right on spot.
I really hope that the Developers do not listen to the nay sayers........
Remember kids, in Opposite World the way to "bring back X" is to make X so irritating that nobody wants to do it! Yeah those matches that take 15 alchemy to craft are really gonna bring things back, yessiree.
Perhaps it is intended as a gold sink, but then, if that's the case, the rewards for doing so should be greater in another form. You don't just create a "gold sink" without giving something for that gold to sink into. Plain old ordinary "your gold vanishes and you get nothing in return" gold sinks are pointless, and they do nothing but cause players to feel as if they've been urinated upon.
In addition to the "risk vs. reward" issue, there's also the "time vs. reward" issue, which is an equation of how much time you have to spend doing something in order to glean some sort of meaningful reward for the time you have expended doing something.
It's pretty clear that the developers completely forgot that they were making a game, and instead went high and heavy on the realism. The problem with realism is that most people don't actually enjoy it in their games. Yes, there are some people who want realism in their game... they're usually the same people who use phrases like "Realistically, zombies aren't that fast..." or "That couldn't really happen in real life..." and completely gloss over that we're not playing reality in any particular game.
When the amount of time and energy and money invested into something exceeds the potential reward for getting something back out of it, there's an issue. Now, sure, there's apparently a chance for X, Y, or Z to drop, but you still have the issue where you're basically paying via in-game currency to play.
In other threads, I've seen mention the issue of some people expecting it to be soloable, and frankly, given the reward, it really should be. Consider that if you had 5 people on your ship, and you manage to get 2,000 gold each. Whoo. Hoo.
There is definitely something wrong with the equation... and, also something wrong with the factors used when crafting stuff. It's sort of like the idea that you get 1 shaft from 1 piece of wood. The amount of things that go into making 1 match are a bit... odd.
They're in need of doing something about these things... things that had they not been in so much of a hurry to release this they might have learned in a focused testing group. But I digress...
Point is, there's something severely wrong with the implementation here.
QFT.
I'm all about the multi in multiplayer, but I'm not about it being a massive waste of time. I equate this to other games where to do many things I have to be part of a group, but at very least, I'm guaranteed to walk away with more than I'm investing in it via repair bills (presuming of course there aren't a bunch of new players, and if that's the case, I try to help with tips so we all make it through).
The way the equation is set up presently, it's a loss, loss, loss, loss, loss for a 5-way team unless, by chance, you manage to get one of those very ultra super rare drops. In which case, 1 of you makes out, and it's loss, loss, loss, loss for the other four. In no case is good game design based on loss over gain.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
But there are rare drops right? Thats the important thing. Guarantee or common drops will make it pointless as the market will be saturated and once again is a foever lose lose scenerio. As long as there is rare drops and if useful 1 drop should pay of a year worth of fishing tries. So assuming a rare drop is gained in 2 months then you already paid for the rest of the year. As long as rare stays rare and people still want it the price will remain extremely high to sell for those who don't want to make the effort for it.
This is why prices on things should be high so the people who do the work don't get cheated out of there effort.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Being playing since the begininng would hate to get bored next month cause I got everything. Those who won't play for a year to obtain something then would not stay playing in UO anyway. How long did it take people to get there first castle there first doom artie and ther first crimson. Of course doom arties and crimson have become less desireble cause its extremely easy to get them so people get bored. Like I always say if people want something now theres test center and there they have it. The reason it's emty feeling is because there was no effort placed on getting it.
If people still don't want to wait use gold to get it and do something you like in generating gold to give people who don't mind working at it for a long while.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
I know you can capture Orc ships. What about the pirate ships? (Or are they the same?)
I DO lolI mean, who makes yarn anymore? That was painful
The hell with "everything", how about SOMETHING?
K
KoolAidAddict
Guest
Opinion noted, but thats NOT the case for me, and obviously others as well.
My real reward is a combo, that includes fun, inspiration, camaraderie, risk, and REWARD.
What if ALL of UO was this way, would you still feel the same?
I mean, if all of the mobs gave paltry loot, and it cost more to get/kill/whatever, would you still feel all warm and fuzzy inside?
Or, did you, like the rest of us, stone off carto to a deep dark hole cause the loot SUCKED?
Come on, tell the truth.....fishing skill was stoned off wasnt it?
Mine was, not ashamed to say, cause the loot SUCKED!!
Im somewhat happy about the booster, but for craps sake, it has so much more of a possibility to be AWESOME, that the devs should really rock our world instead of merely wigglin it!!!
Devs pay attention you have trampled on the realm of easy mode and order must be restored immediately! You guys should have learned by now that the gamers in uo don't want any kind of challenge. They just want more of the same shinies, the pirates should cost no more than a 100 gold to solo and they should reward twenty times that much.
Oh and new house decorations, and oh oh more neon colors, yeah and like insurance should just be cost free from now on as well, just sayin.
Oh and new house decorations, and oh oh more neon colors, yeah and like insurance should just be cost free from now on as well, just sayin.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Im never against more reward but don't they give special cannonballs and parts to make the orc ship? Sure once the orc ship is made they won't be bothered with only for the cnnonballs if the cannonballs really make a difference. Gold as reward doesn't mean much look what they did with all the SA creatures gold is laughable or non existant there idea of slowing gold generation even though it doesn't matter as gold came into Uo not by gold farming but by gold duping so it's a useless tactic that they did.
The real gold is to be made by trading the ship parts (they are tradable right?)and cannonballs for huge sums of gold to make up the cost and time and effort. There better things to do after that though so it would be nice if they add something else as well.
Another player recently mentioned that an Orc Galleon, which is a reward only obtainable through ship Battles with NPC Pirates (the Bounty Quests...), was sold for 100 millions of UO gold.
Now, ain't that a reward worthy enough, I may ask ?
And that is on top of all of the other rewards, resources included, that come with fighting and looting said Pirate NPCs......
Not at all, IMHO............
No, I totally disagree here.
This Booster is designed differently than in the past, it is NOT about instant gratification but more on like "building up" credit and claiming it only later on, quite later on, when "enough" credit has built up.
I do not like instant gratification, it is diseducative, IMHO and gets players to always want more, more and want it yesterday, already.
This Booster has been well thought out and well designed, IMHO, with a tiered Quests system were one has to build up Quests credit to be offered higher Quests with better rewards and also in regards to Ship Battles, the Bounty Quests to track down and arrest Pirates, eventually lead to a VERY valuable reward, the Orc Galleon which is highly desired by players because of its 150% Cannon damage bonus (I reckon that one recently sold for 100 millions UO gold).
So, there is no loss, only it is that there is no instant gratification. Powerscrolls come, Orc Galleon comes, only they come later on, after the players have built up enough Quests and credit.
This Booster was not about instant gratification and I applaude this Design choice.
Devs pay attention you have trampled on the realm of easy mode and order must be restored immediately! You guys should have learned by now that the gamers in uo don't want any kind of challenge. They just want more of the same shinies, the pirates should cost no more than a 100 gold to solo and they should reward twenty times that much.
Oh and new house decorations, and oh oh more neon colors, yeah and like insurance should just be cost free from now on as well, just sayin.
That is the feeling I get from reading some of the posts............ that some players want instant reward and they want it yesterday !!
This Booster from fishing to ship battles was NOT built around instant gratification but cleverly, on a tiered Quest system with players having to build up their credit and efforts in order to get something quite nice in the end.
I applaude this design, I see it as much better than instant gratification.