WoW has introduced 'Legacy Servers'...Why Can't UO?!

[Riyana]

In this recent interview with WoW's executive producer J. Allen Brack, he says:

Before we started work on this project, we couldn't actually run vanilla WOW. The hardware is different. The operating systems are different. There was no way for it to just work.

and

We said for several years that if there was a way for us to flip a switch and have it work, we'd flip that switch. It's not something that we didn't want to do for any arbitrary reason. There were legitimate, significant technical reasons.

and

This is a massive effort. This is a very, very significant effort. I would not expect it to be soon. We actually don't know when we're going to release it. I know that's a generic answer that we give for all of our Blizzard titles, but with this one, we don't actually know how long it will take.

Now of course, Broadsword is not Blizzard. UO is not WoW. According to the interview, Blizzard, with all their resources, is actually hiring on more people just for this project, which he calls "a massive effort" several times. It sure sounds like it's a lot more than a week's worth of one person's work. It's an interesting interview with insight from someone actually working on a WoW Classic.

 

[Dot_Warner]

So you're saying, this is a complete waste of time and money for WoW -- that their analysts have concluded that the profits aren't there, but they should do it anyway to burn money.

You're saying there are zero avenues for investors and UO can't get the funding, because there is absolutely zero potential for profit.

Well there you have it folks! Dot_Warner pulling info from his ass is as good as gold. We can lock this thread and go home now. Other random internet stranger has spoken!

Reading comprehension fail. But, again, thank you for showing how weak your argument(s) are!

It clearly makes sense for WoW. Again, they have the money/time/resources/player demand to support such a move.

UO. DOES. NOT. Anyone with even a scintila of knowledge about UO would know this.

EA has rebuffed multiple offers to buy the game, the IP or to even throw money at the studio du jour. They are content to allow UO to exist, eking out a meager profit that they can use on the next FIFA.

 

[Boba]

Reading comprehension fail. But, again, thank you for showing how weak your argument(s) are!

It clearly makes sense for WoW. Again, they have the money/time/resources/player demand to support such a move.

UO. DOES. NOT. Anyone with even a scintila of knowledge about UO would know this.

EA has rebuffed multiple offers to buy the game, the IP or to even throw money at the studio du jour. They are content to allow UO to exist, eking out a meager profit that they can use on the next FIFA.

UO CAN GET THE FUNDS. See? I can do that too. Now what makes you right and me wrong?

If EA was content with UO just existing, then why are we going f2p? Who deemed it profitable enough to attempt that, and why?

 

[Boba]

Now of course, Broadsword is not Blizzard. UO is not WoW. According to the interview, Blizzard, with all their resources, is actually hiring on more people just for this project, which he calls "a massive effort" several times. It sure sounds like it's a lot more than a week's worth of one person's work. It's an interesting interview with insight from someone actually working on a WoW Classic.

You are correct in the massive technological differences between the two games. But I'm willing to bet he is strictly speaking of the graphical limitations and improvements over the years.

UO has the luxury (or curse, some could argue) of having literally the same graphics (sprite based), as release.

Some custom programming will be required I'm sure when it comes to the item system, combat, skill training, etc.. but without getting too technical, there isn't much you can't do now, that you could in 1998.
The core functionality of the game is still there. Movement, billing, housing, trading, skill building, etc.

To put it extremely simply, you're basically just flipping switches until you get as close as possible to whatever consensus is agreed upon, and then doing some tweaking from there.

 

[Promathia]

Personally I'd rather the DEVs spent more time figuring out how to bring back community

Easy, close/merge servers.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Can you please provide this proof that you speak of? I am highly interested in reading it. Because the way I see it, is we'll never know what really would have happened if they had not gone through with the split.

What we do know however, is exactly what happened after the split through now: the game has been slowly dwindling and dying, as you succinctly described. That means Trammel was also a failure, as time has proven.

x ∞

Your lack of UO knowledge is stunning.

I'll toss out The Chart™:



Renaissance dropped in '00. AoS dropped in '03. Subs went UP after both of this divisive publishes.

Before Trammel, UO was hemorrhaging subscribers. The majority of players hated what we now consider Fel rules. Hated with a passion.

While the not-a-mirror! split was handled incredibly poorly, UO wouldn't have reached 20 years without it. That really isn't up for dispute.

AoS was just...awful...but UO persevered.

 

[Dot_Warner]

UO CAN GET THE FUNDS. See? I can do that too. Now what makes you right and me wrong?

If EA was content with UO just existing, then why are we going f2p? Who deemed it profitable enough to attempt that, and why?

You have no idea how EA works, do you...

The fact the money could exist doesn't mean EA is interested/willing to facilitate this.

1) UO isn't going F2P. It will have a F2P-like endless trial, but subscriptions are likely to be the norm.

2) EJ costs them very little to implement and has the potential to generate more paying subscribers and/or more item shop sales. We wont even know if EJ is a success until months after it launches.

 

[Promathia]

I am afraid EJ is going to facilitate far more harm to UO than anyone has ever imagined. Everyone I have known to quit has done so because of hacks, cheats, and basement dwellers looking for another $10k in real life from "bots." EJ is going to allow people to make 10x 720 skill 6x 120 characters on every shard. Idoc bots will be undetectable... Multi bots will be everywhere getting event items (I don't care what Mesanna has said... she 'says' a lot...). I have said it 100 times. Scripters are bragging and licking their chops, and fine tuning their programs already. Trust me... I know...

EJ will be the death of UO.

Oh yea... and free servers are far more fun than OSI for the most part. Nobody there trying to make $$$ in real life.... OSI should be the best, but due to Devs, EMs, GMs, and Mesanna making friends with 'special' players and looking the other way... yea. It's like the wild west on OSI... and most players don't want to live there... so they quit. Sad but true. With the same players/people involved... nobody will return.

Omg please

First off, free accounts cant get EM Items. That's already a thing btw (Trial accounts cant get EM drops).

Secondly: Freeservers are free from corruption? What? Here is an example of a WoW freeserver:
World of Warcraft Elysium emulator disbands, reforms under cloud of corruption


"Everyone I have known to quit has done so because of hacks, cheats"
You mean the same **** that happens all the time on freeshards? Do you really think everyone reading this thread is dumb as bricks?


I wont pretend to act like I know if EJ will work or not. But what you wrote was literal ********

 

[Boba]

x ∞

Your lack of UO knowledge is stunning.

I'll toss out The Chart™:

View attachment 73906

Renaissance dropped in '00. AoS dropped in '03. Subs went UP after both of this divisive publishes.

Before Trammel, UO was hemorrhaging subscribers. The majority of players hated what we now consider Fel rules. Hated with a passion.

While the not-a-mirror! split was handled incredibly poorly, UO wouldn't have reached 20 years without it. That really isn't up for dispute.

AoS was just...awful...but UO persevered.

Find the line that represents Ultima Online. Put your index finger on the dot where it starts. Now, follow the line from there, traversing to the right until trammel was released (May 4, 2000). Can you so kindly point out at which point on that line UO was "hemorrhaging subscribers" ?

To anyone who can properly interpret this graph, they would conclude that the "hemorrhaging of subscribers" didn't start happening until after this point (May, 2000), after trammel was created.

The overall subscribtion count starts to decline in 2001. Trammel did not save UO. In fact, I would argue it did the exact opposite; it killed UO. It's just a slow death, taking 20+ years.

They told you Trammel was being created due to a loss of subscriptions. This graph doesn't show a decline in subscriptions pre-trammel. What it does show, however, is UO moving to react to its direct competitor at the time: Everquest. (Strange coincidence that Trammel came out almost a year after EQ was released? hmmm)

Who knows where we would be now if UO had stuck to what initially made it a success.

 

[Jacks]

Well, we can all squabble about the reasons for people leaving. I'm certain it's not just one reason like "people hated cheaters", "crafters felt left behind" etc.

Reasons I heard directly from people who left were

- I met someone who doesn't approve of me spending my life in front of the computer
- I had a baby which is time consuming and frankly more interesting
- The graphics are not satisfactory
- WoW is too much fun to pass up on
- It's too much money
- I'm moving on (I.e: you can't expect that people stay in the same game, profession or even relationship for 20 years straight)

x ∞


I'll toss out The Chart:

View attachment 73906

Renaissance dropped in '00. AoS dropped in '03. Subs went UP after both of this divisive publishes.

To be fair, it looks like subs went down significantly after AoS.






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[Polaris75]

Omg please

First off, free accounts cant get EM Items. That's already a thing btw (Trial accounts cant get EM drops).

Secondly: Freeservers are free from corruption? What? Here is an example of a WoW freeserver:
World of Warcraft Elysium emulator disbands, reforms under cloud of corruption


"Everyone I have known to quit has done so because of hacks, cheats"
You mean the same **** that happens all the time on freeshards? Do you really think everyone reading this thread is dumb as bricks?


I wont pretend to act like I know if EJ will work or not. But what you wrote was literal ********

So says the guy regularly selling EM items and the like.....

Yea... whatever bro. I know for a fact that ALL of the top scripters in game are licking their chops... as you type your disinformation. Keep on... subscribers dropping left and right. Make money while all of you guys can (not speaking to you, of course.)

"Everyone I have known to quit has done so because of hacks, cheats"
You mean the same **** that happens all the time on freeshards? Do you really think everyone reading this thread is dumb as bricks?

All of the hacks/cheats are equal on free shards. If you want to run a program to GM "magery" in a night... then so be it. Taming cannot be "programmed" so easily. For some yes... but a simple button repeater (which most free shards REQUIRE to even open) wouldn't be out of the question for most. Scripting IDOCs would be USELESS in a free server though. You can't make $$$$$ from your list of EM drops from IDOCs on a free server. Programming bots to place houses on a free server is pointless..... people GIVE you houses for free. Want me to go on?? I know of an guy with fire paintings out the yin yang... who told me personally that we literally have no chance at IDOCs, even if we know the timing and go..

Omg please
But what you wrote was literal ********

So sayeth you... the guy with actual selling posts on Stratics..... Enough said. Enjoy.

 

[Promathia]

So says the guy regularly selling EM items and the like.....

Wtf does that have to do with it? Trial accounts CANNOT get EM drops (go ahead and try it) and its already been stated EJ accounts will be in the same boat. Does me going to events and selling drops somehow change that? I'm typing disinformation? Like what?

Endless Journey – Ultima Online

Ridiculous

 

[Polaris75]

Wtf does that have to do with it? Trial accounts CANNOT get EM drops (go ahead and try it) and its already been stated EJ accounts will be in the same boat. Does me going to events and selling drops somehow change that? I'm typing disinformation? Like what?

Ridiculous

It frees up the IDOCing game for everyone though, doesn't it?? Trial accounts can time houses and 'run the world.' They can also loot from IDOCs still, from what I've heard (contrary to what Mesanna said.) Bots set to focus on this... multi boxing paid accounts to focus on 'that'... 3-4 times a day sometimes farming EM items.

No matter what you say... people know that IDOCs exist. People know IDOCers exist. Most of those people not making money in the real world quit regularly... two quit this past week I believe. I wonder how many accounts they are taking with them?? Just saying......

Mesanna pretending people quit this game because they cannot pay $10 a month is ludicrous. We are all computer people with jobs in engineering, chemistry, programming, music, railroad work, ect.... We are very bright people with big bank accounts. I could pay $300 a month for this game if I so chose. Most people could easily. Who doesn't buy taco bell once a week?

EJ will not bring back anyone who did not want to pay $10...... EJ will however open the road for bots. They no longer have to make new chars every 2 weeks......... Everyone knows that. I know every IDOCer in the game.... yet I never used the crap they use not never. They were sad for me... and told me that I didn't have a chance. So be it.... Noble Polaris... was what I was called and who I am.

EJ will be the death of UO.

 

[Promathia]

It frees up the IDOCing game for everyone though, doesn't it?? Trial accounts can time houses and 'run the world.' They can also loot from IDOCs still, from what I've heard (contrary to what Mesanna said.) Bots set to focus on this... multi boxing paid accounts to focus on 'that'... 3-4 times a day sometimes farming EM items.

No matter what you say... people know that IDOCs exist. People know IDOCers exist. Most of those people not making money in the real world quit regularly... two quit this past week I believe. I wonder how many accounts they are taking with them?? Just saying......

Mesanna pretending people quit this game because they cannot pay $10 a month is ludicrous. We are all computer people with jobs in engineering, chemistry, programming, music, railroad work, ect.... We are very bright people with big bank accounts. I could pay $300 a month for this game if I so chose. Most people could easily. Who doesn't buy taco bell once a week?

EJ will not bring back anyone who did not want to pay $10...... EJ will however open the road for bots. They no longer have to make new chars every 2 weeks......... Everyone knows that. I know every IDOCer in the game.... yet I never used the crap they use not never. They were sad for me... and told me that I didn't have a chance. So be it.... Noble Polaris... was what I was called and who I am.

EJ will be the death of UO.

What does anything you just typed have to do with a single thing I said?

 

[Polaris75]

What does anything you just typed have to do with a single thing I said?

People farming Ultima don't just stick to carrots.... is my point.

EJ will be the death of UO... I've said it 100 times.

Everybody's tired of the EM drops going to multiboxers.... and they are tired of the bots, the IDOCers, and the cheaters getting away with everything.

EJ will bring back 0 people EXCEPT retired IDOCers who can make a buck. I could post quotes from veery notable people who echo the exact thing I just said... saying that Mesanna must be insane b/c she is giving them free reign.

 

[Jacks]

Mesanna pretending people quit this game because they cannot pay $10 a month is ludicrous. We are all computer people with jobs in engineering, chemistry, programming, music, railroad work, ect.... We are very bright people with big bank accounts. I could pay $300 a month for this game if I so chose. Most people could easily. Who doesn't buy taco bell once a week?

EJ will not bring back anyone who did not want to pay $10...... EJ will however open the road for bots. They no longer have to make new chars every 2 weeks......... Everyone knows that.

EJ will be the death of UO.

I disagree. I'm one of the people that think 130 ish Euros a year is a significant amount of money, especially during the periods when I know I won't play much. If I can play at most 2-3 hours every other Saturday, it doesn't feel worth it. That most people "could easily" pay 300$ a month, I just can't see that.

I think EJ could bring back some people that play a more casual game, and will only be on a few hours a week/month if they don't feel overwhelmed by all the new information they'd have to read up on to understand what's new and how to play a competitive game.


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[Promathia]

People farming Ultima don't just stick to carrots.... is my point.

EJ will be the death of UO... I've said it 100 times.

Everybody's tired of the EM drops going to multiboxers.... and they are tired of the bots, the IDOCers, and the cheaters getting away with everything.

EJ will bring back 0 people EXCEPT retired IDOCers who can make a buck. I could post quotes from veery notable people who echo the exact thing I just said... saying that Mesanna must be insane b/c she is giving them free reign.

Again, this has nothing to do with the prior conversation.

1. You say EJ will bring more multiboxers getting EM items
2. I point out that EJ accounts cant get drops
3. You say Im spreading disinformation + point out a few times that I sell EM items

I never said a thing about EJ being successful or not, about IDOCs or about multiboxers.

 

[Polaris75]

Again, this has nothing to do with the prior conversation.

1. You say EJ will bring more multiboxers getting EM items
2. I point out that EJ accounts cant get drops
3. You say Im spreading disinformation + point out a few times that I sell EM items

I never said a thing about EJ being successful or not, about IDOCs or about multiboxers.

Umm... I never said EJ accounts will be getting EM drops. I said that the 120 stealth/ 120 ninja, 100 hiding, 100 detect, 100 tracking, 100 magery, 120 spellweaving bots will be everywhere at every IDOC.... Fel Idocs will have a Bot on every corner casting poison field or "wildfire." Tram IDOCs will have no less than 5-10 bots at every house with a list a mile long of items to grab while their "host" sleeps away.... zzzzzzzz's in real life.

They already use "world runners" to search that map. All afk bots.... it's going to get 100x easier when they don't have to make new characters every 2 weeks and THEY ALL have said that and are licking their chops.....

Of course they will have more time and now $$$ to focus on EM events. Why not... when you are making money again and having to pay 1/3 of what you were?

Type what you want... it's all irrelevant to the truth.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Find the line that represents Ultima Online. Put your index finger on the dot where it starts. Now, follow the line from there, traversing to the right until trammel was released (May 4, 2000). Can you so kindly point out at which point on that line UO was "hemorrhaging subscribers" ?

UO's hemorrhaging accounts is directly from Garriott and Long. People would sub for a month and then leave, saying the PK atmosphere was why they were quitting. It was the whole reason Trammel was created in the first place. These facts aren't in dispute. Please, learn UO's history.

To anyone who can properly interpret this graph, they would conclude that the "hemorrhaging of subscribers" didn't start happening until after this point (May, 2000), after trammel was created.

Apparently you aren't one of those people. The UO line doesn't dip until ~Q2 of '01, a year after Renaissance. That loss can easily be attributed to the spate of MMOs released that year. Subs go back up a bit over a year later when AOS is released. The BIG decline is in '04...as WOW is going through beta.

The overall subscribtion count starts to decline in 2001. Trammel did not save UO. In fact, I would argue it did the exact opposite; it killed UO. It's just a slow death, taking 20+ years.

They told you Trammel was being created due to a loss of subscriptions. This graph doesn't show a decline in subscriptions pre-trammel. What it does show, however, is UO moving to react to its direct competitor at the time: Everquest. (Strange coincidence that Trammel came out almost a year after EQ was released? hmmm)

Who knows where we would be now if UO had stuck to what initially made it a success.

Yeah, well, when the creators of the game repeatedly tell rooms full of people and multiple interviewers that the Fel ruleset was killing the subs, there is no reason to disbelieve them. I'm sorry that reality doesn't match up to what you wish it to be.

Also, did you expect UO to not react to newer MMOs? While Renaissance wasn't perfect (i.e. PvP should have been sent to the new facet, not the ones who didn't want it), it clearly didn't kill UO.

A long, slow, 20 year death? Seriously? You're going with that? Please.

 

[Dot_Warner]

To be fair, it looks like subs went down significantly after AoS.

Not until ~Q2 of '04, over a year after AoS.

WoW ccame out that year.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Umm... I never said EJ accounts will be getting EM drops.

Actually, yes, you did:

I am afraid EJ is going to facilitate far more harm to UO than anyone has ever imagined. ... Multi bots will be everywhere getting event items (I don't care what Mesanna has said... she 'says' a lot...).

When EJ was announced during the party, Mesanna also said that multiboxing would become bannable and enforcement would be fairly ruthless. I, and others, plan to hold her to that and will be loudly displeased if she welches.

 

[Uvtha]

VANILLA IS REAL BOYS • r/wowservers


@Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak

You guys dropped the ball being the 'longest living' MMO who laid the foundation for WoW and others to succeed. Oh, and not to mention the simple fact we just had a 20th anniversary....

Can you please tell me why we are not doing this with UO?


*added the above video**

wow has millions of players and a huge dev team that can do big side projects like that.

 

[Jacks]

Not until ~Q2 of '04, over a year after AoS.

WoW ccame out that year.

Personally I don't think that people just quit at once when AoS came, but just wasn't satisfied and started to drop off eventually, which would explain why the drop is a year later. I have no idea though, That's just from what I experienced myself. And I remember all the people playing less and less because of WoW. I really hated that game then


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[sablestorm]

They actually looked into making a classic server once upon a time but the real answer as to why they haven't done it is because it is a no win situation for them. Every one pining for a classic server has in their mind an opinion of what it should be. If they provided one, you'd have that one person who is happy with it and all the rest would come here and whine and bash them about how they screwed it up.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Personally I don't think that people just quit at once when AoS came, but just wasn't satisfied and started to drop off eventually, which would explain why the drop is a year later. I have no idea though, That's just from what I experienced myself. And I remember all the people playing less and less because of WoW. I really hated that game then


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True this. A lot of my guildies stayed after AoS and ttried to like the changes forced on them. But sadly, most of them left, trickling out a few at a time, for other games because UO was no longer the game they loved. Had nothing to do with trammel, for the most part, j7ust all the itemization and numbers and other changes brought in.

 

[MalagAste]

Bunches of folk quit after AoS but not because of AoS... because there was all that green grass on the other side of about a dozen fences and they followed the pretty pictures like sheeple...

But many have returned and quit again and returned and quit again...

Of those many are "displeased" that UO still looks like it's from 98... they complain about it not having graphics so to speak... but want to "relive" this or that era they remember... they sometimes find an old friend or two... welch a bunch of stuff off them and then vanish again.

It's not Pre-Tram... some it's pre-AoS... others it's when their friends were in some big guild... etc... most of them miss the community... something that a whole boat load of old players come back and miss but can NOT FIND... What they find is a bunch of Greedy trolls and a few old players who keep trying to go on but are mostly not here... all waiting for something to happen to bring back what was lost... but sadly the way things are run anymore it'll never happen...

The focus shifted long ago... around AoS... to greed and "stuff"... and now everyone is "independent"... soloing stuff no one wants to be in a group... there is NO benefit to being in a guild or group anymore... even PvP has become just 1 or 2 here or there if you hear about it... people begging for someone to raid or spar... truly sad state of affairs and it doesn't look to improve so long as we continue to cater to the elite with 1:10 drops etc...

Focus left community IMO when we stopped needing one another to do things. No longer need to find a tailor or smith... just buy a deed from a vendor... no need to interact with other players just buy things from Atl... no need for tamers to rez your pet... just go to the vet... Besides which 90% of the UO populous now has 2 + accounts... just log in your whatever do it yourself.

You can't really take a guild to do much as most of them will be standing about bored out of their wits... Having an invasion back was nice but it was obvious that greed fueled that too... where 3/4 of the people there only showed up at the beginning to kill all the mages and then bail till the next city pops rinse and repeat.... leave the 'hard" stuff for the do-good 1/4... and use shady tactics to prevent others from being able to get hits in on the mage...

sometimes I feel that the community that is left is poison... sure there are some really awesome people here and there but for the most part everyone is focused on themselves over others. But part of that is possibly because they have all been burned 1 too many times... and now think everyone is a cheating, scamming, scum...

Reap what you sow...

 

[Polaris75]

Actually, yes, you did:



When EJ was announced during the party, Mesanna also said that multiboxing would become bannable and enforcement would be fairly ruthless. I, and others, plan to hold her to that and will be loudly displeased if she welches.

Umm... no I didn't.

You actually believe her when she says they are going to start enforcing the no multi-boxing rules later next year..... like it's magically going to happen, AFTER Mesanna has said multiple times that's it's ran by a KVM switch or something and that's it's practically undetectable and they cannot do anything about it. And... for us to win any way we want to win? And we're all going to suddenly hold them accountable, like we haven't been? ----->>>

Don't get me wrong, I certainly hope so. I hope she bans all speed hacks from pvp. I hope she bans all the people running programs to throw 4 exploding pots 7, 8, 9, and 10 seconds after the button press.... I hope she bans the 5-8 bots that are afk grabbing items faster than everyone can even see them at IDOCs. I certainly hope so..... Later next year, right?? Okay....

 

[Flagg]

No doubt it makes a significant effort requiring wealth of resources.

1) UO isn't going F2P. It will have a F2P-like endless trial, but subscriptions are likely to be the norm.

In MMO lingo, what you describe pretty much equals F2P. Hybrid form where idea is to lure em in with F2P and then turn em to subscribers is the norm. I can't think of a single F2P MMO that wouldn't roll this way.

 

[ShriNayne]

I agree @Flagg, yet Messana has stressed many times that UO is not going free-to-play, that's why they came up with this 'Endless Journey' thing, they are avoiding calling it free-to-play like the plague, maybe because they wouldn't want anyone to get the idea they will remove the subscription....

 

[Lady Storm]

I think it is believed that after so much running out of a bank box.
That is limited in size and use and the limited access to any way else to store things needed to play.
With that the player of EJ will determine that its better to just pay the 12.99 to get the whole thing...
Now mind you.. I have known a few people over the past 20 years who have never owned a house, and play out of the bank.
I have tried once to do on a odd shard experiment..... I found quickly it was hellish... id rather pay to play...

 

[Uvtha]

If EA was content with UO just existing, then why are we going f2p? Who deemed it profitable enough to attempt that, and why?

Because the subs are very low, and the game is probably close to zombie mode, and EJ is most likely an attempt to get new players to prevent it.

Classic UO, and Classic WoW really aren't comparable, and yeah, EA could go bananas and spend a boatload of money making the framework for a classic shard, but why on earth would anyone expect that they would. The current game has like 5 developers, and a tiny player base.

 

[Uvtha]

They actually looked into making a classic server once upon a time but the real answer as to why they haven't done it is because it is a no win situation for them. Every one pining for a classic server has in their mind an opinion of what it should be. If they provided one, you'd have that one person who is happy with it and all the rest would come here and whine and bash them about how they screwed it up.

I think people who want a classic server wouldn't like the experience even if they got exactly whatever their vision of "classic" might be. The idea that the gameplay was the key to the game being phenomenal back then is, I would argue, nonsense. The game was great because a) novelty, and b) everyone was playing the same game. If they made a classic shard today, the novelty factor would be gone, as would the unique ruleset. So for example the appeal to a crafter or a pvmer would clearly be on the side of the modern shards because the content level for that kind of game play is drastically higher than it would be on a classic shard. Without crafters/pvmers pks would have no targets, and would quickly leave. I would be that essentially you would have a very small population of pvp purists and a few random people supporting them.

 

[Uvtha]

I agree @Flagg, yet Messana has stressed many times that UO is not going free-to-play, that's why they came up with this 'Endless Journey' thing, they are avoiding calling it free-to-play like the plague, maybe because they wouldn't want anyone to get the idea they will remove the subscription....

Which is idiotic. You need to use those terms to get people aren't playing to consider playing. What on earth would "endless journey" mean to an outsider. Nothing. I really don't get it. EJ IS a free to play account. It's f2p, regardless what you want to call it.

 

[Uvtha]

Umm... no I didn't.

You actually believe her when she says they are going to start enforcing the no multi-boxing rules later next year..... like it's magically going to happen, AFTER Mesanna has said multiple times that's it's ran by a KVM switch or something and that's it's practically undetectable and they cannot do anything about it. And... for us to win any way we want to win? And we're all going to suddenly hold them accountable, like we haven't been? ----->>>

Don't get me wrong, I certainly hope so. I hope she bans all speed hacks from pvp. I hope she bans all the people running programs to throw 4 exploding pots 7, 8, 9, and 10 seconds after the button press.... I hope she bans the 5-8 bots that are afk grabbing items faster than everyone can even see them at IDOCs. I certainly hope so..... Later next year, right?? Okay....

Well, I think the idea is that with subs so low if some goof wants to pay for 10 subs just to get event items, hey have at it. When the free accounts come multiboxing without paying a sub will actually impact the enjoyment of people PAYING to play, so that can't be allowed. Just like they said EJ peeps will be banned on the spot, while subbed peeps multiboxing will get a warning or a suspension or something. It's just about the money, that's why "a year from now".

They could ban multiboxers right now, all the excuses for why they don't boil down to not wanting to cut paying subs. They don't need detection software, they just need a gm to see it happen, (and they do) and jail/ban that person.

 

[Flagg]

I agree @Flagg, yet Messana has stressed many times that UO is not going free-to-play, that's why they came up with this 'Endless Journey' thing, they are avoiding calling it free-to-play like the plague, maybe because they wouldn't want anyone to get the idea they will remove the subscription....

Clearly they do. It is such a huge shame. Perception, impression is so important with things like these. Specially when building bit of a hype around it. " UO is going Free2Play!" can grow into a hot topic, awaken curiosity and make some press cycles. " UO extends it's free trial!" on the other hand is a notion nobody would care about. I feel this remains the case even if both of these options would provide identical feature/restriction list. I can't understand why Mesanna keeps underlining it not being F2P at every turn, she should shout it totes being just that from every freaking rooftop. I really hope press won't follow her example in this. It very much looks like UO's version will be far less restricted than, say, Lord of the Rings Online's F2P. Latter being a game that got celebrated as one of the most successful early adopters on F2P MMO-field. Nothing shared about Endless Journey suggests they couldn't totally get away with calling it F2P. It reads like a moderately lax listing of restrictions and rights when compared to other F2P MMos.

 

[GarthGrey]

This was a good thread when it was just Dot and Boba going back and forth, now the regulars have uglied it up..no offense regulars

 

[morPR]

At least there is a Endless Journey discussion going on.....

 

[RL'S pker]

A UO legacy server is possible.

The idea that the devs lost the code, and there for have no way to create a legacy server is a joke. If they are somewhat knowledgeable in their jobs they can do it. I'm not saying it would not be work, but they can do it.

There's only two reasons why we have not had a true legacy server yet, laziness and pride.

 

[calibek]

VANILLA IS REAL BOYS • r/wowservers

@Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak

You guys dropped the ball being the 'longest living' MMO who laid the foundation for WoW and others to succeed. Oh, and not to mention the simple fact we just had a 20th anniversary....

Can you please tell me why we are not doing this with UO

Firstly, as much as I wish this would happen with UO, it never will due to the fact that maintaining ANOTHER type of game server would stretch them thin.

Secondly, it is ALL nostalgia. Same with WoW classic servers. People remember the fun they USED to have with friends and think that going back to the way it was will make everything better. Quite frankly, it's bull. People remember it being fun because it was new and new things are always interesting. I knew that Blizzard would announce classic servers eventually, but only because the game was losing subs.

The only thing that can kill a game faster than constantly changing it is never changing it at all. People grow up, lose time, and get bored. This game could never support a classic server. Most of the times classic servers are a last ditch effort to bring in new subs before a game has to close because they can't sustain a profit. The people who played this game who would be interested in a classic server left MANY years ago and the crappy graphics probably Don't interest any of the younger generation to try it out.

End result is a classic server on this game will most likely produce no benefit for the undertaking.

 

[Flagg]

Firstly, as much as I wish this would happen with UO, it never will due to the fact that maintaining ANOTHER type of game server would stretch them thin.

Secondly, it is ALL nostalgia. Same with WoW classic servers. People remember the fun they USED to have with friends and think that going back to the way it was will make everything better. Quite frankly, it's bull. People remember it being fun because it was new and new things are always interesting. .

Nah, that's not entirely it. Or rather, I'm not sure of the variety of reasons people play on such servers, but fact remains they do. It isn't some collective daydream untested in practice, unofficial shards/servers providing some " classic take" of the " glory days" have for long been extremely popular..for Wow and UO alike. And for Everquest and Runescape, for that matter. I mean, certainly nostalgy is indeed huge part of their popularity. But popular they are. Clearly loads of people don't simply like the idea of playing there, but also actually do just that.

 

[calibek]

Nah, that's not entirely it. Or rather, I'm not sure of the variety of reasons people play on such servers, but fact remains they do. It isn't some collective daydream untested in practice, unofficial shards/servers providing some " classic take" of the " glory days" have for long been extremely popular..for Wow and UO alike. And for Everquest and Runescape, for that matter. I mean, certainly nostalgy is indeed huge part of their popularity. But popular they are. Clearly loads of people don't simply like the idea of playing there, but also actually do just that.

Personally, I believe nostalgia is all it is for those who play on classic/legacy servers. People have fun, and that is wonderful, but their memories are what keep them in that. I played classic WoW and my god was it bad. I had several fun times, especially PvP'ing in Tarren Mill, but the bad outweighed the good. People want classic server because they remember how fun it was when they played before and assume they will have the same fun again. For some that may be true but for most that just won't likely be the case as everyone who played in classic is a bit older now and those things that were fun when we were younger just aren't as plausible now.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Personally, I believe nostalgia is all it is for those who play on classic/legacy servers. People have fun, and that is wonderful, but their memories are what keep them in that. I played classic WoW and my god was it bad. I had several fun times, especially PvP'ing in Tarren Mill, but the bad outweighed the good. People want classic server because they remember how fun it was when they played before and assume they will have the same fun again. For some that may be true but for most that just won't likely be the case as everyone who played in classic is a bit older now and those things that were fun when we were younger just aren't as plausible now.

I would guarantee nostalgia is the lowest reason of any given reason for people to play a certain era. You have to take in the fact that the majority of the gaming community are casual players. Meaning they only log on for maybe an hour a night after work or on their days off and they spend maybe 3-4 hours total playing. That is the majority of the market. A Classic Server set in any time frame before pub 16 allowed the casual players to be competent in the game mechanics and also allowed them to acquire what anyone else could. There was no Doom that you had to spend 100+ hours in, there was no insanely complicated loot system that you had to learn about luck and all these other new stats to either pvp or pve in. It took the grind from from low to high over night. This pushed the casual player away, along with the complication of the game and it's mechanics.

This alone is the reason why people play the free servers that replicate this era. Not only is it for love of the game, but it allows them to play it moderately just like they could back then and still get ahead.

Personally I want a ML accurate server because that was by far the best pvp there was. Personally I would play every classic server they created because I haven't enjoyed an expansion post ML.

 

[calibek]

I would guarantee nostalgia is the lowest reason of any given reason for people to play a certain era. You have to take in the fact that the majority of the gaming community are casual players. Meaning they only log on for maybe an hour a night after work or on their days off and they spend maybe 3-4 hours total playing. That is the majority of the market. A Classic Server set in any time frame before pub 16 allowed the casual players to be competent in the game mechanics and also allowed them to acquire what anyone else could. There was no Doom that you had to spend 100+ hours in, there was no insanely complicated loot system that you had to learn about luck and all these other new stats to either pvp or pve in. It took the grind from from low to high over night. This pushed the casual player away, along with the complication of the game and it's mechanics.

This alone is the reason why people play the free servers that replicate this era. Not only is it for love of the game, but it allows them to play it moderately just like they could back then and still get ahead.

Personally I want a ML accurate server because that was by far the best pvp there was. Personally I would play every classic server they created because I haven't enjoyed an expansion post ML.

Nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition; also:something that evokes nostalgia

Right from Definition of NOSTALGIA

Reason you have why people would return to an era is exactly nostalgia, they played it and enjoyed it and miss how it was. How many people do you think would play UO with its dated graphics? I would gather not nearly enough to sustain the game.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition; also:something that evokes nostalgia

Right from Definition of NOSTALGIA

Reason you have why people would return to an era is exactly nostalgia, they played it and enjoyed it and miss how it was. How many people do you think would play UO with its dated graphics? I would gather not nearly enough to sustain the game.

Go look at Albion Online and it's graphics and tell me how it was able to attract 200k +

Nice strawman

 

[calibek]

Go look at Albion Online and it's graphics and tell me how it was able to attract 200k +

Nice strawman

Sold that many...but how many concurrent subscriptions does it retain? And the graphics are a bit more up-to-date than UO's. Classic server for UO probably would not bring enough people back to sustain it's upkeep. And I can guarantee you that WoW classic will not survive unless blizzard finds it makes a significant profit. If and when it stops to produce a profit they would shut it down in a heartbeat. These are businesses and they have a bottom line to meet and data to back it up. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be and just because you feel it would be beneficial does not mean it will be.

 

[Captn Norrington]

This thread seems to have gotten a bit side-tracked onto the EJ topic, the original post was about a Legacy server so if the conversation could be pushed more that direction I'm sure the original poster would appreciate it.

Also, the thread has been cleaned up a little. Please remember that calling an idea stupid is fine, but calling the person themselves stupid is against the rules.

Thanks.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Sold that many...but how many concurrent subscriptions does it retain? And the graphics are a bit more up-to-date than UO's. Classic server for UO probably would not bring enough people back to sustain it's upkeep. And I can guarantee you that WoW classic will not survive unless blizzard finds it makes a significant profit. If and when it stops to produce a profit they would shut it down in a heartbeat. These are businesses and they have a bottom line to meet and data to back it up. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be and just because you feel it would be beneficial does not mean it will be.

I feel like you are just throwing around assumptions without actually looking into it. If there wasn't money in it, why would Blizzard be shutting down servers? If your assumption is correct wouldn't that be a waste of legal expenses?

World of Warcraft fans bid farewell to largest legacy server before shutdown

Kinda weird to assume that they are taking effort in shutting down servers and then later announcing they will be opening up their own "Legacy Servers" if it was such a waste of money and no one would stick around for it.

You develop the client and host a server. A server that doesn't need to continue to expand because...well, it's a legacy server. All the devs would need to focus on is content within the era and allow the community to build it from there. It is a sandbox, right? There are already programs like the EM Events that would create weekly content for people to partake in. Bring back Chaos Vs Order and Factions and some invasions and you're looking at more content than what we currently have. The amount of people that complain about how useless thieves are would probably populate the server themselves...The foundation of what worked and didn't work is easily accessible all they have to do is draw from it.

 

[calibek]

I feel like you are just throwing around assumptions without actually looking into it. If there wasn't money in it, why would Blizzard be shutting down servers? If your assumption is correct wouldn't that be a waste of legal expenses?

World of Warcraft fans bid farewell to largest legacy server before shutdown

Kinda weird to assume that they are taking effort in shutting down servers and then later announcing they will be opening up their own "Legacy Servers" if it was such a waste of money and no one would stick around for it.

You develop the client and host a server. A server that doesn't need to continue to expand because...well, it's a legacy server. All the devs would need to focus on is content within the era and allow the community to build it from there. It is a sandbox, right? There are already programs like the EM Events that would create weekly content for people to partake in. Bring back Chaos Vs Order and Factions and some invasions and you're looking at more content than what we currently have. The amount of people that complain about how useless thieves are would probably populate the server themselves...The foundation of what worked and didn't work is easily accessible all they have to do is draw from it.

No I have looked at it. Until actual classic servers were made and data has been collected for several months EVERYTHING is assumption.

Blizzard was shutting down servers because they were infringing on their intellectual property. I would do the same if I had an IP and someone was stealing and using my works. I mean it IS illegal.

The one problem with classic servers that never need updated is, well, they are never updated. And the problem is adding things alters a classic server, which basically goes against what a classic server is suppose to mean. While there are people who LOVE nostalgia there are others who can't stand stagnation. How many games have people ever played that have NEVER changed, continuously everyday, for the length of the games life cycle. Eventually people get bored of the same exact thing. Change breaks up monotony. The other problem is WHAT version of classic should it be? There is a lose lose here. Some like pre-tram, some want pre-pub 16, and some, like me, prefer pre-AoS minus the powerscrolls. Point is you are NEVER going to find a time where everyone agrees.

Don't get me wrong, if a classic server was announced tomorrow I would be one of the first ones to play on it, much like I will with WoW. But I will not be playing it long term because doing the same thing day in and day out with NO changes bores me, and I kind of have to think that others would feel the same.

 

[Lady Storm]

I got a few questions to the people who keep bringing up the idea of merging servers...

Who do you pick to get to keep their homes? Meaning what shard is the big loser?

Did you forget Luna square has homes? or What about the castle spots?? who gets to keep their home?

What do you do to the people who loose out?

How do you make it up to the guy/gal who has had his/her home for 20 years in the same location of the shard your killing?

Didn't think that did you...
Cause it might be you who gets booted out...
Because to be fair Atlantic has to be in the mix of possible deleted/merged shards.

As for those who think its sheer laziness to not make a legacy shard... Get your glasses on kiddo's
There is a need to reread this whole set of postings. If any have trouble understanding the words we can help you...

READ MY WORDS

Merger might sound great for population numbers, and a legacy shard has a nice ring to it... both are fantasy island things that wont happen.

First off NOT enough money in any budget to get the staff required to make one.
Secondly If you were there in 97- 2000 you would be not asking for this.
There was a reason people RAN to Tram, they didn't walk ... they flew off Fel so fast houses in my homes areas became a deserted oasis.
Yes I have homes in Fel.
Been there from beginning of shard ...

 

[skittles1337]

First off NOT enough money in any budget to get the staff required to make one.
Secondly If you were there in 97- 2000 you would be not asking for this.
There was a reason people RAN to Tram, they didn't walk ... they flew off Fel so fast houses in my homes areas became a deserted oasis.
Yes I have homes in Fel.
Been there from beginning of shard ...

What are you talking about? I was there as there was still plenty of people in fel, on pacific for at least 2 years home prices were higher in fel compared to tram. So while you think you know, you really don't.

2) EJ costs them very little to implement and has the potential to generate more paying subscribers and/or more item shop sales. We wont even know if EJ is a success until months after it launches.

Ok.. 6 months of planning, 6-8 months of designing-coding, and 3-5 months of fixing bugs literally adds up to "very little". Trust me EJ will be a failure because there will be ZERO marketing to old players and honestly without steam a free to play option is just stupid.