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WoW has introduced 'Legacy Servers'...Why Can't UO?!

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MalagAste

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Now we're getting somewhere...

The only difference is, I believe everything that needs to be undone is indeed trivial in the end, albeit tedious. However, tedious does not mean difficult, and it certainly is not synonymous with impossible.

Go ahead and provide some examples of things, systems, features, etc. that would not be trivial to undo.

After you think about it for a while and finally come to the realization that there was actually nothing noteworthy as far major system changes post-AoS (just a bunch of balance tweaks and bug fixes), maybe you'll see where I'm coming from.

Also, keep in mind a player, on his own, was able to 100% reverse engineer a post-AoS server by simply cherry-picking features that were a necessity or desired (movement, combat, housing, items, trading, etc..) with current tools that have been on the market for over 15 years. While that specific type of software is very expensive, it would not surprise me if Broadsword is already using it, or something similar to aid in their own navigation and modification of the server code.
Again you are comparing apples to tomatoes at this point...

The Free Servers run a whole other code than UO... it's nothing like what UO Code is... it's FAR different... it's like comparing Star Wars to Cowboys and Indians and saying those are alike and should be just as easy for a cowboy or indian to go and fly a starship because they can ride a horse.
 

Uriah Heep

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Maybe he's trying to say that it doesn't matter if it's 'official' UO code or not, just make the server-like the basement kids can do. Even if it's playing the old Nintendo Mario Bros code backwards...as long as it results in a shard pre-AoS.
 

The Zog historian

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Oh I remember!

- Traveling through the moongates was "random" (or supposedly based on moonphases)
- No Runebooks- you'd just carry runes with you, and the risk of losing them if you died.
- no item insurance
- no gumps while crafting, so crafting was a pain in the ass.
- Recall was limited for mages, everyone else walked or ran everywhere.
- No player ran vendors, no customizing housing (and no Interior Decorator to raise, lower, or turn items).
- no 100% reg cost equipment (so regs were essential)
- You didn't know when your pick axes and any of your items where going to break
- When you failed to heal yourself with bandages, bloody bandages everywhere and were very annoying.
- There was no pet training. No Pet bonding - No pet resing. When your pet died, that was it, off your way to tame or buy a new one.
- Jewelry was virtually useless and had no properties (except those with usable charges for str, dex, and int which no one really cared to use), but you were able to craft gems into rings and bracelets.
- Item ID to see what properties your weapons had.

Anyway, I think it's just a "nostalgic" thing everyone has for every single thing these days, which people are normally biased for and naturally blows out of proportion for. I'm sure playing a Classic UO could be fun for a couple days or weeks, but I'm sure most people who'd play the novelty would wear off soon then the servers would probably die down like most of the other servers.
Well said all around. You mean it wasn't great to spend a few minutes bouncing through the moongate until you got somewhere, sometimes staying in the same place?

Without item insurance, most runes were kept banked so they wouldn't need replacing. If you had a rune for a nice spot but forgot, and a monster or PK got you...

We had the most ridiculous crafting menus and submenus sometimes made cumbersome by having to scroll right. Macroing (even attended) was a must if you wanted to make fancy shirts to sell, or especially a bunch of exceptional plate pieces (we didn't get exceptional breastplaces until 1999).

Buying regs was made ridiculous by the limited supply and high demand. You could eventually get a vendor to 999 of each, if you were early enough on the shard before everyone else kept buying out what you worked for. It was a real lottery to go from city to city, hoping you wouldn't run out of recall regs before finding a vendor with some.

Stat jewelry ran out too quickly to be useful. Spell reflect jewelry had uses. Remember teleport and invisibility rings? I still have some, from pre-AoS. Teleport rings could be a life-saver for non-mage characters, and I escaped a mob during one server down battle by rapidly teleporting to a corner of my screen and continuing on. One type could be double-clicked. The other type needed to be worn, but there was a notorious bug of charges being used if you moved them in your backpack.

Server down battles remind me: the vastly improved technology means that server maintenance takes only several minutes now, so a "classic server" wouldn't have that problem today, but remember when the high item count (alleviated much by the first Cleanup Britannia) had maintenance times over 90 minutes for smaller shards?

Part of UO's survival was that we persevered in the hope it could be improved, and the other part is that we didn't know any better. Lots of people talk about the supposed American "Golden Age" of the 1950s, not realizing (or forgetting if they were there) how expensive appliances were to buy and have repaired, the regular tuneups of carbureted engines, and the overall lack of convenience compared to today's technology.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

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Go ahead and provide some examples of things, systems, features, etc. that would not be trivial to undo.

here r just a few in my earlier post:

WoW has introduced 'Legacy Servers'...Why Can't UO?!

nothing about aos even resembles something small. 2 my earlier post i also add that we have skills that don't do the same thing they used to (Arms Lore, Forensic Eval), and skills that didn't exist (Mysticism). no special moves. what's the same is dwarfed by what's different.

when aos came out some folks quipped that they were now playing a totally different game.

if a good coder wanted to make a custom rules shard he or she surely could build one from scratch, given time money and will. but he or she also could make a whole new game. i've already shown why doing this would be a bad idea even if it were half as 'trivial' (ur word!) as u say.

now again draconi (who i remember) & wilki (i don't remember this one but dot seems 2) and all them might be lying & it might be easy as hell & they might be not going this becus conspiracy.

but i doubt it.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

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Maybe he's trying to say that it doesn't matter if it's 'official' UO code or not, just make the server-like the basement kids can do. Even if it's playing the old Nintendo Mario Bros code backwards...as long as it results in a shard pre-AoS.
he might b saying that but then why he say aos changes r "trivial?" clealy he's saying a custom rules shard isn't just possible but in relatively easy reach. at least he's saying that sometimes.lol
 

The Zog historian

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Scams used to be so much more harmful because of that too... I remember one time way back then where a guy had his house key but no rune, a thief took it, then followed him around until he took the rune out of his bank and stole that too. Finally, the guy realized his house was now useless so he re-deeded it and tried to sell the deed at WBB. The same thief once again shows up and offers to buy it, scams the guy and gets the deed to the house on top of the key and rune. Pretty sure the victim quit the game that day. They lost every item they had in the house, the house location, and the house deed which was expensive back then all in one hour.
Why didn't he just change locks? The first housing publish was practically answered prayer in that it allowed redeeding a house but also changing the locks. Besides, redeeding and replacing would generate new keys anyway.

There were, though, so many trade window scams. The person whose guild I mock as their chronicler was infamous for scamming newbies with "down payments."
 

Dot_Warner

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Now we're getting somewhere...
Not really, but whatevs.

The only difference is, I believe everything that needs to be undone is indeed trivial in the end, albeit tedious. However, tedious does not mean difficult, and it certainly is not synonymous with impossible.
What you believe is your choice. That doesn't mean it has any correlation to objective reality, however.

Go ahead and provide some examples of things, systems, features, etc. that would not be trivial to undo.
In no particular order:
  • Smooth boat movement
  • Chaos v Order > Factions > Factions 2.0 >VvV
  • The housing system
  • RNG 2.0
  • The spaghetti that is the combat system (I really don't believe this one would be simple at all)
  • Several iterations of mob AI
  • Age of Stuff Shadows (massive revamp of armor & weapons)
  • 17 years of balancing
That is by no means a complete list, as I'm not willing to reread 17 years worth of publish notes. I mostly just snagged system changes from the expansions.

This also doesn't touch on all the under-the-hood changes that we, as mere subscribers, aren't privy to. Nor could you easily account for all the weird interactions, interdependencies and conflicts that exist in the code. You could "simply" turn off, say special moves, to find you've borked all combat for no apparent reason.

Even if you could turn things off, you'd still have to test it all, rebalance, test some more, balance some more, etc.

After you think about it for a while and finally come to the realization that there was actually nothing noteworthy as far major system changes post-AoS (just a bunch of balance tweaks and bug fixes), maybe you'll see where I'm coming from.
Yeah, because UO hasn't evolved since 2003. o_O

There have been 5 expansions since then. Each adding in a mix of new assets, land, skills and items. Several also made big system changes as noted above.

Also, keep in mind a player, on his own, was able to 100% reverse engineer a post-AoS server by simply cherry-picking features that were a necessity or desired (movement, combat, housing, items, trading, etc..) with current tools that have been on the market for over 15 years. While that specific type of software is very expensive, it would not surprise me if Broadsword is already using it, or something similar to aid in their own navigation and modification of the server code.
As I stated in a response to someone else, free shard creators can do what they want and aren't using an EA-written backend. Attempting to compare the two products at this point is rather disingenuous.

EA still isn't going to devote the resources towards undertaking the reconstruction of a classic shard just because you think it's easy.

Why don't you go play one of those shards instead of beating a horse corpse here? Or, you know, go play Siege/Mugen, wear only GM crafted armor and just ignore the other facets and newfangled mobs.
 

Boba

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Not really, but whatevs.

What you believe is your choice. That doesn't mean it has any correlation to objective reality, however.
Luckily what I believe is actually based in objective reality -- real life experience -- so you are again, wrong.
But let me guess, I'm just an armchair developer with no technical background making this all up as I go right?

In no particular order:
  • Smooth boat movement
  • Chaos v Order > Factions > Factions 2.0 >VvV
  • The housing system
  • RNG 2.0
  • The spaghetti that is the combat system (I really don't believe this one would be simple at all)
  • Several iterations of mob AI
  • Age of Stuff Shadows (massive revamp of armor & weapons)
  • 17 years of balancing
That is by no means a complete list, as I'm not willing to reread 17 years worth of publish notes. I mostly just snagged system changes from the expansions.
Smooth boot movement - How does this have any bearing on whether or not a classic shard plays and feels like a classic shard? This didn't change the game in any sort of meaningful way. If anything, this would enhance the experience and should be something that you get to keep around. On that note, can you think of any impact this would have on a classic shard, negative or otherwise were it to stick around? I can't.

Chaos/Order vs Factions - This will be one of the area's that may need to be coded from near scratch. However, you yourself have implied that backups exist post 2004 (the move to Redwood Shores). That means they have the code for Factions in its earlier iterations, before any major changes to the system (pub 77). You could again, modify this code to resemble something similar to Order/Chaos and Factions of those era's.

The housing system - I've already addressed this. Can you not place classic houses with our current server code? Last I checked you could. How difficult do you honestly think it would be to create some housing deeds, point their functionality at the current existing code that handles classic house placement, and shut off the house placement tool?

RNG 2.0 - You're gonna have to elaborate on this one.

The spaghetti that is the combat system (I really don't believe this one would be simple at all) - Why do you believe that to be the case? I am arguing that there are zero fundamental changes to PvP from day one, to today. The underlying mechanics are the same. Spells do damage, they have timing, they consume resouces, and they can be disrupted. For melee attacks: you double click, stand next to your enemy, and let the combat logic figure the rest out. Has any of that changed?

Age of Stuff Shadows (massive revamp of armor & weapons) - Armor and weapons were extremely simplified in classic UO, and yes, mimicking their original properties using the current paradigm is again, trivial!

17 years of balancing - Most of these balances can be attributed to Age of Shadows, and the mess it made of the game. This is an era we are trying to NOT incorporate, so why do those balance changes have any bearing on a classic shard?
We know the default properties of the extremely simplified item properties from those era's. Remember, everything did physical damage, simplifying the process even more.
Some of these balance changes can even be classified as enhancements, or improvements, much like the boat movement upgrades and only serve to enhance the experience.

This also doesn't touch on all the under-the-hood changes that we, as mere subscribers, aren't privy to. Nor could you easily account for all the weird interactions, interdependencies and conflicts that exist in the code. You could "simply" turn off, say special moves, to find you've borked all combat for no apparent reason.
You say that turning off special moves could bork combat for no apparent reason.
I say that disabling special moves is identical to the player opting to not use a special attack through his own free will.
Did you think special moves happen automatically or something?
You do know it is a toggle-able ability right?

A player opting to not use a special ability and leaving it off (the same as it not being an option at all) doesn't magically affect some other aspect of the game.

This is true for just about anything you're gonna throw at me, so I encourage you to give it your best shot.

Even if you could turn things off, you'd still have to test it all, rebalance, test some more, balance some more, etc.
Yep, pretty common process when it comes to any sort of code creation or modification.

Yeah, because UO hasn't evolved since 2003. o_O

There have been 5 expansions since then. Each adding in a mix of new assets, land, skills and items. Several also made big system changes as noted above.
None of these expansions changed the game fundamentally; they were simply additions. How does disabling anything they added affect the core game in any meaningful way?
I can't think of a single feature or function found within any of the previous 5 expansions that might have a negative impact on a classic shard, were it to be disabled or removed.

Here's a fun thought experiment:
If by some chance, every single player today deleted all of their existing characters, and from scratch created nothing but humans with exclusively classic UO skills, would it break the game? Would the void of those other races and skills somehow cause everything to crash?
Would it be any different than them never existing in the first place?
Now is that any different than simply disabling the option to create necro's, paladins, ninja's, elves and gargoyles at the character creation screen?

How about disabling complete access to any of the worlds outside of Felucca and t2a?
By simply disallowing players to go anywhere other than t2a, does it somehow have a technical, negative impact on the game?

Another thought experiment:
If everyone logged in on Atlantic right now went to felucca/t2a simultaneously, leaving the other facets completely void of players, would the game crash due to a fault in the code?


As I stated in a response to someone else, free shard creators can do what they want and aren't using an EA-written backend. Attempting to compare the two products at this point is rather disingenuous.
There isn't much you could do in classic UO that you can't do now. Do you disagree with that statement?

The point i'm trying to stress here (that you and everyone apparently can't grasp) is that, what made classic UO what it was, still exists today in the current server code.
It's just been morphed, and transformed over the years to whatever we have now.
I keep saying that this can be morphed back with relative ease, given the fact that classic UO is extremely basic.
I'll say it again: there really isn't much that has changed fundamentally since day one.

The free shard creators have proven this by writing, from scratch, everything (literally) required to make a player believe they're playing classic Ultima Online.
If they can do it without having access to the actual code, do you think it's easier or harder for the current dev's (who have access to the actual source code) to mock something up and make believe they're playing classic UO?


EA still isn't going to devote the resources towards undertaking the reconstruction of a classic shard just because you think it's easy.
So they won't do it because I think it's easy? Or they won't do it because you said so, and your 20 years of history means you know best?

We'll let them decide whether or not it's worth it in the end.

We all know the current allocation of their resources has been nothing but a boon for the game, am I right?
The game's never been healthier!

Why don't you go play one of those shards instead of beating a horse corpse here? Or, you know, go play Siege/Mugen, wear only GM crafted armor and just ignore the other facets and newfangled mobs.
The current topic of legacy servers is relevant in the world of MMO's. Otherwise, this thread wouldn't exist.
 

MalagAste

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Again you are comparing what free sharders do with all the time in the world... without maintaining 26 shards, without having to deal with the REAL code... with having stuff handed to them by other free sharders... you are comparing apples to tomatoes...

FREE SHARDS DO NOT USE THE SAME CODE.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

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Luckily what I believe is actually based in objective reality -- real life experience -- so you are again, wrong.
But let me guess, I'm just an armchair developer with no technical background making this all up as I go right?
u are throwing a lot of garbage against the wall & hoping some sticks. u also make statements that no1 w/ memory of earlier days would honestly make. no idea on what ur background is so can't speak 4 1st part, but u definitely r making things up.

the combat system is the best example: aos changed it totally, the devs @ the time said so, as I've explained above. ur post proceeds as though the original game is in the background someplace but it's not, not from what we've been told. c my other posts above for details re: damage, and a few other things. i've explained how spells & skills worked differently, damage worked differently, armor worked differently, etc. it's not just 16 or whatever years of added content, it's not just new mechanics on top of old, it's all new mechanics, with new servers (amazon 'cloud' servers vs EA owned and controlled servers). most of us that actually play know that.

at this point u r trying 2 say chess & checkers have "trivial" differences because they both use boards, pieces, & colors, labeling the many differences as "trivial."
 

Tyrath

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Easy solution EA buy one of the free shards for chump change and BS hire the free shard owner to update and maintain a classic server for a one year trial basis. If it is as popular as Boba speculates and makes money keep if it is a turd cut it loose. I suspect it would be a turd though as the only thing that made UO great back then was it was new and evolving and it was about the best thing going at that time. And Boba right or wrong you are whizzing against the wind because UO just ain't that important to EA.
 

Boba

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u are throwing a lot of garbage against the wall & hoping some sticks. u also make statements that no1 w/ memory of earlier days would honestly make. no idea on what ur background is so can't speak 4 1st part, but u definitely r making things up.

the combat system is the best example: aos changed it totally, the devs @ the time said so, as I've explained above. ur post proceeds as though the original game is in the background someplace but it's not, not from what we've been told. c my other posts above for details re: damage, and a few other things. i've explained how spells & skills worked differently, damage worked differently, armor worked differently, etc. it's not just 16 or whatever years of added content, it's not just new mechanics on top of old, it's all new mechanics, with new servers (amazon 'cloud' servers vs EA owned and controlled servers). most of us that actually play know that.

at this point u r trying 2 say chess & checkers have "trivial" differences because they both use boards, pieces, & colors, labeling the many differences as "trivial."
I already you you're not worth my time.
Quit talking to me.
 

Boba

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Again you are comparing what free sharders do with all the time in the world... without maintaining 26 shards, without having to deal with the REAL code... with having stuff handed to them by other free sharders... you are comparing apples to tomatoes...

FREE SHARDS DO NOT USE THE SAME CODE.
Like I mentioned earlier, keep up with the actual conversation, or keep quiet.
Your misinformed nonsense is extremely toxic to what little game we have left.

I'm comparing apples to an apple wrapped in an orange.
My solution is to unwrap the orange until it looks like an apple again.
I don't expect anyone who is pre-senile to comprehend this.

I keep having to defend this against people such as yourself, who have the technical knowledge of my grandmother.

Are you a grandmother?
 

MalagAste

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Like I mentioned earlier, keep up with the actual conversation, or keep quiet.
Your misinformed nonsense is extremely toxic to what little game we have left.

I'm comparing apples to an apple wrapped in an orange.
My solution is to unwrap the orange until it looks like an apple again.
I don't expect anyone who is pre-senile to comprehend this.

I keep having to defend this against people such as yourself, who have the technical knowledge of my grandmother.

Are you a grandmother?
I'm not the misinformed one... YOU ARE A DREAMER and in a delusional state right now... there is no way they can do this... NOT HAPPENING... how many times do you need told the truth yet put fingers in your ears and go nah nah nah...??

Seriously there is ONE coder... he can't even fix most the code now how do you expect this to happen??? Do you honestly think if you whine and moan about it long enough and pretend it's as easy as you think it is it's going to happen???? WAKE UP... not happening.
 

Lady Storm

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You know .... I'd hate to be the authority who has to get you to move your tails out of the way of a lava flow!
The bunch of you would debate the speed the lava was going to the point it be too late to escape!
Look this is the fact:
EA/BS cant or wont pay to make any new shard... they been even pressed to merge shards by the same people who are yipping for this.
Let this sink in.
We are getting returning players and new.
Numbers do matter, They make it so we have UO for another day now unless we allow others to drive them off which I have seen some do.
Dot has given you all correct info..
Draconi told me of the finding of the notebook and how it got destroyed.
See I was the one who described the notebook to him.
He kept an eye out for it as they packed up the office in redwood...
He described all he saw in that notebook ..... the bit map.. the notes of changes the original code .... it was the MASTER NOTEBOOK.
After finding it and knowing it got destroyed bothered him that he let it slip through his fingers....
I for one will never blame him for it...
Things happen
You cant go back to the past...
What made it special to you has gone the way of the times.
What made UO ...UO is us....
Many have pointed out UO has not changed... your right.
What has changed is US.

Think on this one...
The year you joined UO....
Where were you?
How old were you then?
What was life like for you in the era you came In UO.
Now How has it changed from that beginning?

It has happened for us all kiddo..... Time marches on.
 

Boba

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I'm not the misinformed one... YOU ARE A DREAMER and in a delusional state right now... there is no way they can do this... NOT HAPPENING... how many times do you need told the truth yet put fingers in your ears and go nah nah nah...??

Seriously there is ONE coder... he can't even fix most the code now how do you expect this to happen??? Do you honestly think if you whine and moan about it long enough and pretend it's as easy as you think it is it's going to happen???? WAKE UP... not happening.
Again, for the 29384723894th time, whether or not it happens is not up to you, or me, so why even bring that up?

Do you have a steak somehow in ensuring that a legacy server never sees the light of day?

If not, then why are you in this thread?

I can tell you why I'm here, incase you missed it the first 14 times:
I'm here to demonstrate that there is no technical reason for this to not be accomplished with relative ease, even with a lack of server code from that era.

Are you going to give me any concrete, technical examples as to why that's not the case while you're here? Just one example?

I'm going to presume that you are unable, as all I've gotten from you thus far is a clear demonstration that you have zero understanding of the technical aspects of this discussion (to be completely honest, I think my own grandmother would have at least began to understand some of this by now, and she's 85!)

Why are you so hellbent on making yourself look bad?
 

Lady Storm

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Boba stop annoying your elders...
Your dead wrong so let it go...
Dreaming is good and wishing for things is nice.
But being a total disruption to the masses who are trying to give you the truth and mind you for quite some time they been nice!
By now I been expecting someone to pound you to snail snot....
Broadsword has 2 artists, 1 Q&A, LP, 1 Engineer etc.. and the use of some staff from DAoC.
As so many pointed out the subs are very low... where do you think they would get the funds to make this from?
Now add in the funds go strait to EA not BS...
Let's be real... if you think EA who has been for the last 5 years itching to put Ultima Online in sunset mode to give the Dev the funds to make a legacy shard.
All I can say is some of the people here want some of what every dreaming meds you taking...

By the way EA's term for closing a game is called: Sunset mode
 

Boba

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Boba stop annoying your elders...
Your dead wrong so let it go...
Dreaming is good and wishing for things is nice.
But being a total disruption to the masses who are trying to give you the truth and mind you for quite some time they been nice!
By now I been expecting someone to pound you to snail snot....
Broadsword has 2 artists, 1 Q&A, LP, 1 Engineer etc.. and the use of some staff from DAoC.
As so many pointed out the subs are very low... where do you think they would get the funds to make this from?
Now add in the funds go strait to EA not BS...
Let's be real... if you think EA who has been for the last 5 years itching to put Ultima Online in sunset mode to give the Dev the funds to make a legacy shard.
All I can say is some of the people here want some of what every dreaming meds you taking...

By the way EA's term for closing a game is called: Sunset mode
These "elders" you speak of, the main voices of the echo-chamber known as Stratics, are partly responsibly for why the game is in state it's in now (not good).
Stratics has for far too long, negatively influenced the course of the game over time.
If EA/BS continues down this (failed) path, your "sunset mode" will quickly be upon us.
17 years of ******** has done nothing but killed the game little by little.
17 years of changes directly influenced by these toxic forums (some good, mostly bad).

And you're content with letting that continue?

Did you ever wonder why Stratics needed to sell ownership about 2 years ago?
Did you ever wonder why Stratics doesn't have a dedicated staff, but unqualified volunteers instead?
Did you ever wonder why Stratics can barely meet its overhead?

Most people understand the toxic nature of these forums, and left posthaste.
That is a direct result of letting misinformation spread, and stifling any true discussion that may spark a positive change in the game and community.

What do you have to say about that?
 

MalagAste

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These "elders" you speak of, the main voices of the echo-chamber known as Stratics, are partly responsibly for why the game is in state it's in now (not good).
Stratics has for far too long, negatively influenced the course of the game over time.
If EA/BS continues down this (failed) path, your "sunset mode" will quickly be upon us.
17 years of ******** has done nothing but killed the game little by little.
17 years of changes directly influenced by these toxic forums (some good, mostly bad).

And you're content with letting that continue?

Did you ever wonder why Stratics needed to sell ownership about 2 years ago?
Did you ever wonder why Stratics doesn't have a dedicated staff, but unqualified volunteers instead?
Did you ever wonder why Stratics can barely meet its overhead?

Most people understand the toxic nature of these forums, and left posthaste.
That is a direct result of letting misinformation spread, and stifling any true discussion that may spark a positive change in the game and community.

What do you have to say about that?

I laugh you think I have ANYTHING to do with the current state of the game....

What do you think I go around telling people to cheat, dupe, hack, scam and drive other players away????/

No all you who want that old school game back did a real great job of that way before I even started...


I'm sorry but you are not even thinking clearly. How do you think that the current team who can't even get the stuff they do code to work right could bring back long dead code like a glorious dream???

They couldn't even get the Halloween content to start properly...

Seriously... the game has had one foot in the grave since Draconi who went to bat for us and kept it going... Mesanna keeps it going.... but they honestly don't have the resources for your delusional daydream...
 

Lady Storm

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
So you are now doing this to drag the staff by the short hairs??
Why do I see the boom landing......
The information Dot, Mal, and many others including myself is spot on.
This has little to do with Stratics and its staff or lack there of..
The Doom and Gloom bus has passéd this way many times... and no doubt one day it will happen.
Nothing lives forever.. even the stars die.
Even WoW is going to go by the way side one day..
Lamenting on this will not change facts....
EA would love to Sunset UO.. and in part DaoC.
They just need one slip up.
No amount of protest or yelling will change this fact that there will not be any legacy shard.
EA wants UO gone.. period.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The only difference is, I believe everything that needs to be undone is indeed trivial in the end, albeit tedious. However, tedious does not mean difficult, and it certainly is not synonymous with impossible.
It takes them 6 months to add basic content to the game right now. There are like 2 people who code on the team. I also think you are making a lot of assumptions as to how easy it would be to deal with all of the various elements. I think it would be a much bigger undertaking that you think it would be.

I honestly don't think that anyone ever said that recreating a classic ruleset was impossible, but it's just not a practical use of extremely limited dev time.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
These "elders" you speak of, the main voices of the echo-chamber known as Stratics, are partly responsibly for why the game is in state it's in now (not good).
Stratics has for far too long, negatively influenced the course of the game over time.
If EA/BS continues down this (failed) path, your "sunset mode" will quickly be upon us.
17 years of ******** has done nothing but killed the game little by little.
17 years of changes directly influenced by these toxic forums (some good, mostly bad).

And you're content with letting that continue?

Did you ever wonder why Stratics needed to sell ownership about 2 years ago?
Did you ever wonder why Stratics doesn't have a dedicated staff, but unqualified volunteers instead?
Did you ever wonder why Stratics can barely meet its overhead?

Most people understand the toxic nature of these forums, and left posthaste.
That is a direct result of letting misinformation spread, and stifling any true discussion that may spark a positive change in the game and community.

What do you have to say about that?
very little substance here, merely hate. what substance there is, oddly, has nothing 2 do with the topic. regarding current state of game, if it weren't making money, it'd be gone already. u may not like it but so what? play another game. uo's success at start had 2 do with little competition being around. it being a big brand name wasn't enough 2 save it from friendlier competition that was less oriented 2 setting players against each other.

regarding custom rules shard & ur arguments for: truth is there's no good reason based on what you've said that u understand any of the topix u claim 2 know. that includes pre-AOS uo btw: the fact that u think aos changes r "trivial" makes it sound like u didn't play. or, r ignoring reality 2 pursue an argument that's both losing (unlikely 2 happen, unlikely 2b doable) and incorrect (if it happened &/or was doable, would be a bad idea).
 

Thrakkar

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm here to demonstrate that there is no technical reason for this to not be accomplished with relative ease, even with a lack of server code from that era.
You seem to be very knowledgable in that matter.

If the current dev team would put every other priority on the backburner, what is your estimate, of how long it would take them to make it happen? Like from starting to code to publishing the classic live shard, ready for playing?
 

Nexus

Site Support
Administrator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Did you ever wonder why Stratics needed to sell ownership about 2 years ago?
Did you ever wonder why Stratics doesn't have a dedicated staff, but unqualified volunteers instead?
Did you ever wonder why Stratics can barely meet its overhead?
** Checks Stratics Bank Account ** yea about that, the site is doing just fine meeting it's overhead.

Here's the gist of the issue folks have been trying to explain. There is no in line commentation from 17+ years ago in the code, it was all documented externally in hard copies (the infamous notebook). There is no reference as to how algorithms were changed, how various systems worked together...none zero nadda. Sure the overall structure of the game may be similar in some respects, but it is the minute details that would be impossible to recreate.

Oh, one more thing, if Stratics' is so toxic, why post here? I mean if you really don't like it, but can't help yourself just ask we can arrange an exit door.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
When is the last time you saw one?
I have a few ID items. Have practice weapons. Charges on armor. The top row has charges of some sort.

upload_2017-11-12_13-39-31.png

Weapons with charges.

upload_2017-11-12_13-41-37.png

Where does this stuff fit in the back to the past we hated shard?
 
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