whats the point of double resources or double the chance for arties when some murderer just comes along and kills you.the whole time your in fel instead of killing monsters fror arties your getting rezzed. What happend to the days when there was honor in fel? It's one thing to raid a champ spawn and kill everyone but just murder someone for trying to get arties is uncalled for in my opinion.
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Arrrrr, I done got killed 'tother day just fer sayin' hi! Do loves to give 'em blues a murder count, tho'! 
The honor left fel when trammel was created. It's too easy to kill someone then go to Luna to bank sit. No accountability = why not?
Move to Siege. It's great.
It's not honorable. It never was. (Let's not kid ourselves.) It's still much more than what's left on other shards.
Speaking of RoT, I don't know if it needs to be sped up or not. I do know that giving a player a 3-6 month period of time when they're not super powered, unable to get top skills in under a week, is humbling. You can't just roll in and be top dog. Everyone goes through the same thing.
I think this also helps with "honor" in Siege.
I got a solution.....STAY OUT OF FEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It isn't for carebear players anyway,beside sit is risk vs reward if you want the double cahcnes at fame and fortune you got to risk something.
And YES I hunt fel too.I about hunt 50/50 in fel tram rulesests you just have to know when and where to hunt safely.
And you cant sit hidden in Luna on siege and burn counts?
A lot of people have detect. So no, you can't. Luna is the ghetto of Siege.
It was honorable. I remember when PvP was fun for all and this was after Trammel. I think it all turned to turned to crap when AOS hit. Thats when all the griefing jerks came out to play and never left.The honor left fel when trammel was created. It's too easy to kill someone then go to Luna to bank sit. No accountability = why not?
Move to Siege. It's great.
It's not honorable. It never was. (Let's not kid ourselves.) It's still much more than what's left on other shards.
Speaking of RoT, I don't know if it needs to be sped up or not. I do know that giving a player a 3-6 month period of time when they're not super powered, unable to get top skills in under a week, is humbling. You can't just roll in and be top dog. Everyone goes through the same thing.
I think this also helps with "honor" in Siege.
So ... wouldn't you agree that the double resources is counter-productive if its just luring in people who don't want to be there? It rewards playstyles not play.
(I'm not a zealot, I just play one on stratics)
You could be right.
I think it's both and more to do with Trammel. No one cared about protecting anyone. If someone was just murdered and asked for help, everyone around them would ask them what they were doing in fel. "You got what you deserved."
People's attitudes changed.
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~Antzy~Pantz~
Guest
I killed someone the other day for saying hi... could it of been you!!!!Arrrrr, I done got killed 'tother day just fer sayin' hi! Do loves to give 'em blues a murder count, tho'!
It's Felucca, the double risk is becose of more danger. The danger comes from the reds.
You kill monsters for loot, the murderes kill you for loot, nothing wrong in that.
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Flora Green
Guest
I would say that might make you a sealubber, but that's just a REALLY bad attempt at humor.Arrrrr, I done got killed 'tother day just fer sayin' hi! Do loves to give 'em blues a murder count, tho'!
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Eslake
Guest
I think people have forgotten what it was actually like back then. (preRen not preAoS, not much has changed since AoS as far as the personalities you meet).
Does no one else remember when they had to make it an instant ban to emote raping the corpse of your victim?
The simple fact that it happened so often they had to say anthing about it is pretty good indication of how bad things were back then.
These days you just get killed and dry looted. Some go the extra mile and call you a Newb or a Trammie.
I always find that humorous. They kill my Miner who has no combat skill and call HIM the newb. ROFL.
SP isn't any better really. It is just that there I expect it all of the time, where on LS I only expect them at certain times of the day.
At least most of them gave up that lame 133T Sp34k.
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Satanatra
Guest
Eslake beat me to it but...
half the people posting here about how AOS ruined UO werent even playing then.
I remember trying to hunt.. with my finger on the recall button because every 5 mins or so a group of 10 reds would come by... gank you and collect your loot. Was that honorable?
I hear people say 'but they used to ress you after they killed you.."
Sure they did - then they killed you again. And thats before there was insurance so it isnt even like they would kill you to collect 5k. Just plain grief.
OR they would offer you a gate back to town and you would find yourself in a lich lord room without regs...
Im not saying dont go to fel - just that it there never was honor.
half the people posting here about how AOS ruined UO werent even playing then.
I remember trying to hunt.. with my finger on the recall button because every 5 mins or so a group of 10 reds would come by... gank you and collect your loot. Was that honorable?
I hear people say 'but they used to ress you after they killed you.."
Sure they did - then they killed you again. And thats before there was insurance so it isnt even like they would kill you to collect 5k. Just plain grief.
OR they would offer you a gate back to town and you would find yourself in a lich lord room without regs...
Im not saying dont go to fel - just that it there never was honor.
There is nothing counter productive about higher reward for higher risk. If people don't want to be there then they don't have to.
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Jaimes
Guest
ROFL.I would say that might make you a sealubber, but that's just a REALLY bad attempt at humor.
I love bad humor. Everyone tells me I make the worst jokes, but they all laugh anyway
Fel is not about risk. This isn't the loot difference between mongbats vs paragon lich lords. As has been pointed out many times, the actual odds of being PKed out in the wilderness of Fel are so remote as to hardly put a dent in a serious farmer. However, Fel is a completely different game that many of us want no part of, a game that frankly disgusts us. But we're penalized for not wanting to be a part of it.
( now, all that inflammatory stuff having been said, I like that Fel exists even if I never go there - if there was a Trammie's Siege, I wouldn't want to move there because I like the dynamic in the community of having overlapping playstyles; it's one of the reasons I'm still here and not on some other game. I just think that sometimes, when people pounce on someone who is frustrated by being lured into a playstyle they didn't want to play, it's worthwhile to ask why you were making an effort to lure him there in the first place )
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Simon Francis
Guest
Trammel was created because of the constant griefing... There was and will always be people who like to kill.
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Revenant2
Guest
There's a different mentality among the Fel regulars than the trammel ones. Trammel's human interactions resemble real-life more than the Fel does. In Fel, some people view you like you might view a monster - they kill you, loot, and go away without a second thought. You're just prey within the environment and normal human relations are not like that.
If you can't fight well and want to get arties in Fel, you might try to pick an area where they are less likely to find you. That or, really, one could stick to Tram if the distorted social scheme is a burden. Fel people degrade people in trammel by calling them "trammies" but well, there happens to be no commonly-used insult-word that sounds as ******** that can be formed out of the word Felucca so you're kinda stuck on that one.
Many players feel that Fel is crap and in certain perspectives their feeling is dead on. Being a "Fellulite" is equally insultable as being a "Trammy" from a social perspective.
I hope you mean "here" as in U.Hall and not in this thread.
And speaking of sweeping comments: I always get the feeling that when people think about SP, all they think about is rampant pking and murderers everywhere.
I think it says a lot about the shard that the largest, most active guild on the shard is a blue guild (and even bigger alliance). "Fel rule set" means a lot more than just being able to murder everyone in sight.
"Fel rule set" is a play style, not just the freedom to murder.
The point I'm trying to make in this thread: That's all "Fel" has been reduced to on other shards and I think many players forget that when talking about SP. <-- w/ rare exceptions.
(btw, I'm not promoting the removal of Trammel. I've always thought that Trammel and Felucca should have been separate shards to begin with. Travel between the two should never have been possible. People have different playstyles.)
Guilty as charged.
( ok, yes, I know there is more going on, but in the back of my mind, it's sort of a binary thing - either I can relax or I need to stay paranoid ... that to me is the real difference in the rulesets when I think about them rather than the %social-vs-antisocial )
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Eslake
Guest
Actually, a "Trammy" in a social perspective would be the sort of person who lives in the "good" neighborhood where there is little or no crime.
And a "Feluccan" would be someone who lived on the 'Other' side of the tracks so to speak.
There was an article back around 2001, or 02 by a psychologist at some university. I don't remember which or where
so I can't link it, but surely someone has a link to share..It was a study on video games and the personalities of those drawn to different types and methods of play.
The short of the relevant part is that it said that games/gameplay where the opponents were other Humans that resulted in the death or destruction of the opponent's game-self - were most attractive to those with serious self-esteem issues and a propensity for volent or suicidal behavior.
It stemmed out and had all sorts of other primary personality types that were drawn to different aspects of diferent games.
I wonder where that places me since I play on LS and SP both, and pretty much always have a character red.
That is actually the perfect perspective in relating the two rulesets.Maplestone said:
If you hang out in Fel not expecting to be attacked, you just end up dead faster because you aren't prepared to defend yourself or run.
There are still a few honorable fel players left but they are rare these days.
But this is correct you want to farm stuff in fel you need to do it on a well equipped character and you have to have the ability to defend yourself.
I take my red to fel and rarely have a problem that I can't handle. It's not like murderers run in packs these days so if you run into anyone looking to just kill you chances are it will be a 1 on 1 fight and if you have what you need you can beat the other guy and move on.
The way I see it though if I am in fel and someone comes along and starts a fight and I lose then they beat me fair and square and if I had something on me they could loot then they earned it because it probably wasn't easy taking it from me lol.
Then you don't have to go there. I play 50-50. I like lots of things about both facets and rulesets. The reason certain rewards are given in Fel (Powerscrolls) and that double resources exist is because of the added risk you take going there.
That being said I've always said that up to 110 level PS'es should drop in Ilsh.
If you don't like being lured there, don't play there. You can make a huge fortune in Trammel and buy whatever scrolls you need.
I guess I just fail to see what problem you have with it and why it 'disgusts' you. Personally I don't PK. I am not even a huge PvP'er; these days it's mostly a random chance or at a rare spawn. That being said, being disgusted by a valid playstyle seems a bit extreme. Nobody has to get PKed or participate in any PvP at all.
Do I have much respect for a red who likes to trash talk like an eight year old on ritalin? No, but I hardly find it 'disgusting'. I just chuckle at them and move along.
It almost sounds like you lump everyone who plays in Fel together into one pile. They are about as diverse as the group in Trammel (many of whom play in Fel too).
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Risk something, who says?? you? Suprised you spelled cearbear correctly.
Trammel existed eons ago well before UO went online, not too many know that, then they flap their gums and looks like ingrates.
Another thing, fel. as ugly as it is, is indeed punk vs punk. Which is why alot of so called cearbears, (explain exactly what that means anyways) shide away( that means to steer clear) because of the kiddies that run around and name call, laugh, and get their jollies out of ruining other players business.
Risk vs reward, that term is lame and pretty much weak sauce.....basically, just a reply because there is no other.
later
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Connor_Graham
Guest
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Connor_Graham
Guest
*nods*
That's going to make it hard to understand my point then.
The entire concept of PvP in a fantasy game is revolting to me - the idea that I have to beware of other people rather than enjoying their company. It's not fun to me. I realize it obviously is fun to many and I don't begrudge them that, but I expect the same understanding in return.
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Lord Kynd
Guest
my lord, even the 'red' players have to have something to do other than raid champ spawns :yawn:
that gets :borring:
so just insure your items real quick, they are worth more than they will get when they pk you
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Eslake
Guest
But many of them will begrudge you that opinion, simply because they don't share it.
They simply can't understand that many people are drawn to games of this genra by the idea of playing a Hero, not a murderer, or a victim.
Never mind that Ultima lore is centered around Virtues or that Murder was never intended to be part of the system in UO.
It is how they CHOSE to play, and you should have no say in how You play, it is all about them.
I PvP (even red), and I PvM, and I craft.. And I acknowledge that each player has the right to chose how they wish to play.
Short of eliminating PvP other than Factions on all but specific shards, I don't see any system more fair than what we have now.
I dunno man. I spend hours PvMing in Fel and I rarely get killed. I just have a char that can defend himself and I always know my escape route.
I'd give out more of my tactics for solo survival in Fel, but then they wouldn't be much good anymore.
I'd give out more of my tactics for solo survival in Fel, but then they wouldn't be much good anymore.
...
Meh, drop the double whatever in Fel, get Factions fixed and running reasonably well, SUPPORT Factions, and then let Fel live or die on its own merits.
Give rewards for being involved in PvP and stop all of the carrot and sticks aimed at those not interested.
Meh, drop the double whatever in Fel, get Factions fixed and running reasonably well, SUPPORT Factions, and then let Fel live or die on its own merits.
Give rewards for being involved in PvP and stop all of the carrot and sticks aimed at those not interested.
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Eslake
Guest
Kensai Tsunami
I think you managed to do nothing but confuse.
You talk about people having no clue what Honor is, but if you read your own post, you will realize you fit that category perfectly.
Trash talk is antithetical to Honorable.
I think you managed to do nothing but confuse.
You talk about people having no clue what Honor is, but if you read your own post, you will realize you fit that category perfectly.
Trash talk is antithetical to Honorable.
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ShaunOfPac
Guest
Ok, so basically you're complaining about getting killed, in Felucca, and losing an item? Wow, how utterly tragic. Prior to AoS there was no such thing as item insurance, you die, you lose everything you had. PvP was SO much more rewarding, and balanced. I made millions (Back when 1mil gold sold for over $30) with all the loot I would acquire and resell through vendors. Items didn't really play a factor, except for a few warriors who had blessed vanqs. It was more skill based, everyone was on equal grounds, so it took intelligence and quick thinking to succeed, not elite items.
As far as there being honor in Fel. . . What honor did you have? I guarantee you wouldn't stand to fight your ground, you'd book it out of there ASAP. What is the honor of being a coward? Trammel was the start of the downfall of UO, and AoS was the crushing blow. I posted pics earlier of an old faction raid, altogether around 300 people between Minax and SL. Now, theres not even 300 real PvP'ers on any given shard. There was a time when you could go to ANY bank, even Nu'jelm, and find a huge group of people there. When the Moonglow graveyard was jampacked with people killing the spawn and waiting for the lich to spawn. Now UO is barren, most cities don't even have people in them. Its a wasteland, and I hope the Dev's realize that by trying to "appease", they completely destroyed the mechanics of the game that made it so much better than any other MMORPG. Now its just everquest with crappy graphics.
As far as there being honor in Fel. . . What honor did you have? I guarantee you wouldn't stand to fight your ground, you'd book it out of there ASAP. What is the honor of being a coward? Trammel was the start of the downfall of UO, and AoS was the crushing blow. I posted pics earlier of an old faction raid, altogether around 300 people between Minax and SL. Now, theres not even 300 real PvP'ers on any given shard. There was a time when you could go to ANY bank, even Nu'jelm, and find a huge group of people there. When the Moonglow graveyard was jampacked with people killing the spawn and waiting for the lich to spawn. Now UO is barren, most cities don't even have people in them. Its a wasteland, and I hope the Dev's realize that by trying to "appease", they completely destroyed the mechanics of the game that made it so much better than any other MMORPG. Now its just everquest with crappy graphics.
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~Antzy~Pantz~
Guest
Funny you say that.. when you killed my boyfriend the other day with the trapped box outside our house, that was pretty funny, we both laughed. Just sucks to fall for something so stupid being new on the shard and have to rebuild a suit... oh well, was a good laugh either way!
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Radun
Guest
lol "uo is all about 'the real'."
Context matters!
I've been on Siege for exactly one month and I've killed exactly 2 people. It wasn't just a random killing. It was my calling for that day!
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~Antzy~Pantz~
Guest
Good job on the story, you are talented!
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Pax
Guest
uhhuh. I was there before Tram, if anything there was *less* honor back then.
To all Red bashers:
The truth is that Fel is a PvP shard. People who play there *expect* to PvP. PvP is the preferred style of playing the game in Fel. As a result, those who go there need to be ready to PvP or die and, if/when they die, they should suck it up as part of the game when in Fel shard. Reds can't even come to Tram. If we decide to go onto their turf, we'd better be ready to play the game their way, just like everyone has to play according to Tram rules when they're in Tram rule-set shards.
Do I PvP? No. Do I think a Red in Fel who attacks me and tries to kill me is "bad" for doing it? No. He's not being evil, he's playing the hardest form of UO there is because that's what he enjoys. If you don't enjoy it, stay out of Fel.
As a general rule, the Reds I've met since Tram came in are much more honorable than the general run-on-the-mill Reds that made all our lives miserable before Tram, and I almost always like them. Give them a break and some respect for a change, and realize they deserve to enjoy playing UO the way *they* want to play it just as much as you do.
Be well - Pax
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UOKaiser
Guest
Lol many memories for me. Scared to walk the brit roads cause always get gank, pked. Players whith starting equipment leaving the cities are quickly dispatched of there gold and left naked whith there practice weapon never to return again to UO. The wild west run or be killed and looted for anything you might have. Ya it was a 7th level of hell version of the fel there is now.
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Pax
Guest
Oh, AMEN there! Boy, do I have those same miserable memories. Give me the Reds we have now over the trash-talking gankers we had back then ANY day. <grin>Be well - Pax
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Sindris
Guest
Carebear? Never really understood that term. I understand its meant to be insulting. Are you saying that because you can gank poorly equipped characters easily from the comfort of your mom's basement that you are somehow a tough guy? Please explain.
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Eslake
Guest
ROFL
I have no responce to what you've said, I just laughed so hard I felt it deserved quoting.
Pax is on the money. Pre-tram was far worse than it is today.
You couldn't step foot out of town without not only being PK'd but cursed 6 ways to Sunday and having your corpse ****d by a gang of punks who spoke in numbers.
Honor and PK are not compatable concepts.
If one were to follow the original intent of allowing player attacks it would be, but if people did that we never would have needed Tram or Murderer status in the first place.
It was intended as a means of player-imposed justice.
Someone steals your ore-smack them with a hammer.
Someone kills the animal you were taming-throw a flamestrike at them.
Someone hacks onto your ship-kill them and leave their ghost floating at sea.
Today, there are only 2 reasons for being red that are remotely tied to that original concept.
Going red by killing scripters (definitely justice imposed).
And participating in champ spawns (forcably defending your spawn against those who would do the same against you)
If the money men at EA ever actually played the game, or even logged in for a few hours and visited Felucca, word would come down the next day to cut it.
Double Resources and Champ Spawns are the only things still keeping it alive. And the Champs could all fit into a single sub the size of the Buc Den server so don't count on them to keep it going.
Killing those lumberjacks too often just might send them packing back to Tram and you log in to find a big toggle on your paperdoll [PVP ON/OFF].
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ShaunOfPac
Guest
I was the Pk everyone feared
I never really targeted newer players though, they werent worth the regs. My favorite spots were the Moonglow and Britain graveyards, and the Lich Lord room in deceit. Silver weapons sold for a helluva lot, ESPECIALLY power/vanq's 
it's funny to me that people say pvpers are anti social. I can tell you most pvmers are anti social. their guilds have no purpose(thus most are small or short lived). Players on the other side band together, they form private communities and groups within a realm full of clanish folk.
It's the difference between guilds that are purposeful and highly usefull vs those that are mostly aesthetic.
It's the difference between guilds that are purposeful and highly usefull vs those that are mostly aesthetic.
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Surindur
Guest
I'm guessing that most trammies have had everything given to them for so long, having to work a bit for something seems to them like punishment.
It's not though, there just happens to be a steep learning-curve for those that want to venture into fel. If you get it right, you live today.. if not, you don't.
It's not though, there just happens to be a steep learning-curve for those that want to venture into fel. If you get it right, you live today.. if not, you don't.
How about Fel-losers?
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Pax
Guest
Hmmmm... how about "Li'l Fellers"?I'm guessing that most trammies have had everything given to them for so long, having to work a bit for something seems to them like punishment.
It's not though, there just happens to be a steep learning-curve for those that want to venture into fel. If you get it right, you live today.. if not, you don't.
How about Fel-losers?
Be well - Pax
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