What is the exact opposite of Siege Perilous?

[HoldenCaulfield]

The problem isn't the game mechanics, it is all of us. Most of us were just kids when we started playing this game and now have families, careers and other obligations. We now have to choose between the few hours we get to play the game of whether to use the time gathering resources, crafting, PvM or PVP. With the population being so low, there aren't enough people in each bucket so everyone has to do something they don't like to be able to enjoy something they do like. In my opinion, that is why some of the people who were against insurance in the past are now advocates (or open) to the idea of it.

I still oppose insurance. If I am fighting on the field, I want to be genuinely good at it and my opponents to be too. If I defeat you, I don't want you hopping right back into action (or vice versa). I earned your stuff, especially if you wronged me in the past, I want my revenge. Sure, insurance might make more people PvP; but the problem is it allows the bad PvP'ers to just be a nuissance. It takes away the idea of actually trying to have skill. There needs to stakes to be earned or lost. I want the rush I get when I barely escape knowing I could have lost my "sheit".

If you geniunely enjoy PvP just for the sake of fighting, why not use the arena? I thoroughly enjoy that venue for trying new templates or just practicing. It is hardly ever used and already has insurance built in (for the most part). There were also the VvV no loot events put on by players, not sure how many of the people in this thread participated in that. I did not as I just didn't have the time. But, I would imagine not many of the people who claim to be hardcore PvP'ers or who were bad@ss back in the day did either. You know why? Because they too enjoy being victorious and looting their opponents' items. Depending on the circumstances or group, they want you to beg for your stuff back; and only hear the sound of scissors in return...that is what made/makes it fun because you had to be fearful when they came on screen and they had the option to win as they see fit. They could control champ spawns, raid town events. Buybacks (insurance) were and still are up to the winners.

You make this game whatever you want it to be. Don't take away my option to keep your stuff.

 

[Tanivar]

I can't relate to the need to screw over others *shrugs*.

If it would mean more players and therefore more customers I'd tolerate some limited kind of Insurance here on Siege. There would need to still be the chance of significant loss if you get killed, this is Siege. Perhaps the victor can loot the corpse as some monsters do? Say an item upon death and every few minutes after the last item taken, Something to discourage dry looting by requiring a fair bit of time waiting to completely loot a body. Your victim can't loot his body and recover gear until you walk away or a fair bit of time has gone by. Do you need to take all his good gear enough to wait out the timers? You decide.

 

[HoldenCaulfield]

I can't relate to the need to screw over others *shrugs*.

If it would mean more players and therefore more customers I'd tolerate some limited kind of Insurance here on Siege. There would need to still be the chance of significant loss if you get killed, this is Siege. Perhaps the victor can loot the corpse as some monsters do? Say an item upon death and every few minutes after the last item taken, Something to discourage dry looting by requiring a fair bit of time waiting to completely loot a body. Your victim can't loot his body and recover gear until you walk away or a fair bit of time has gone by. Do you need to take all his good gear enough to wait out the timers? You decide.

Hmm I kind of think insurance screws over thiefs, crafters and certain pks/pvpers.

So now we are talking about a much more complicated form. When in reality right now YOU, the players decide. It isn't about screwing anyone over, sure some people may deserve that, and the options are there. I don't wish to limit anyones gameplay.

 

[FrejaSP]

When we got the 7th annu items, carrot legs and bunny ears, I was for them being blessed, however, it ended being a pain and the shard asked to get rid of the Blessing on them. I think we need to be careful not to do same mistake again.
Because we can loot, we do not have too, but it's nice, when dealing with players, who need to learn some how to act.

 

[Kat]

When we got the 7th annu items, carrot legs and bunny ears, I was for them being blessed, however, it ended being a pain and the shard asked to get rid of the Blessing on them. I think we need to be careful not to do same mistake again.
Because we can loot, we do not have too, but it's nice, when dealing with players, who need to learn some how to act.

The only reason those were a pain was because there were the haves and the have nots. Ember legs and sammy helms were hard to come by for a good while and by the time I got to Siege, we had to pay millions to obtain each piece. It took a while for me to be able to afford them. I didn't have crap-ton's of gold to transfer to siege. I had to earn most of it here. In any case, they later became abundant again when they gave us all 7th Anniv tokens for some other promotion, but by then, those pieces had become unblessed.

Further, I don't see how Siege insurance would be much of a problem for thieves as long as you can ONLY insure things you currently have equipped. Thats why I suggested using the Siege Bless opion on all worn/equipped items. Nothing in a players backpack should be subject to Siege Blessing.

There isn't any way around it. People don't play here because there is no insurance and it is FAR too difficult to re-equip after a death. It's impossible to get back to having fun in a reasonable amount of time when you have to keep stopping to make new gear and/or search for the pieces that cannot be made. PvPer's were hit especially hard by all the changes that made re-equipping so difficult. It was not uncommon for them to lose several suits on a bad night, but when they could have their sammly legs, sammy helm and GM made pieces, they could get back into action and have fun again! Not to mention the difficulty of faction armor that was bound to 1 person and the difficulty that came along with trying to purchase those items back or get new ones. ALL THAT is why our PvPer's left. Where did they go? As much as they hated the idea of insurance, they went to prodo so they could pvp, die and get back to having fun without all the BS, time consuming effort and ridiculous cost it took to re-equip on Siege. It's a fact. A lot of the main PvPer's went to Atlantic to play, for those very reasons, including several from my guild.

Also, we really only have prodo and/or returning players to draw from [and I'm not just speaking of PvPer's here, but anyone who might lose suits on a regular basis]] if we hope to increase our numbers on Siege. Most of those folks are so used to prodo insurance and other games where nothing is lootable that they won't last long here. They get frustrated at the difficulty to re-equip and leave. Today's game is not designed to be played without insurance. It works on prodo, but all those changes have been very detrimental to Siege. We can't turn back the clock. We have to adjust to today's game.

And as much as some of you hate to hear it, PvPer's make the world go round. They keep the merchants in business. They keep the merchants busy making needed supplies for the masses! Potions, bandages, smoke/egg bombs, dp shurikins, bola's, purple petals, orange petals, enchanted apples, etc. Not to mention all the PvM stuff people need that get looted. Even with the Siege Bless type of insurance, if crafted pieces eventually broke, they would still need to buy and replace those items, as well. And trust me, even if a PvPer has a crafter, most of them are far too lazy to take too much time to make things themselves. Most would rather purchase from other players and spend their time doing what they enjoy.

 

[Tanivar]

Hmm I kind of think insurance screws over thiefs, crafters and certain pks/pvpers.

That it did. I played crafters on prodo until coming to Siege. Problem crafting here is lack of customers.

It isn't about screwing anyone over, sure some people may deserve that, and the options are there. I don't wish to limit anyones gameplay.

Picking off the occasional scriptor is called for now and then.

 

[FrejaSP]

Further, I don't see how Siege insurance would be much of a problem for thieves as long as you can ONLY insure things you currently have equipped. Thats why I suggested using the Siege Bless opion on all worn/equipped items. Nothing in a players backpack should be subject to Siege Blessing.

We will always have the haves and the have nots, some can afford Item Insurance, some can not.
What about, if you want to Item Insure equipped items, it works like VvV stat loss but for all, if you want to Item Insure your items, it should not cost alot (I would say, make it free) but you will have to wait 5 min to reequip them unless you use stat loss remove poison (VvV) or a new version from low level mob spawn. Like stat loss remove poision, it only work once each 20 min, maybe once an hour for non VvV.

One problem with making it only for equipped items are, many run with more than one weapon and some switch jewelry to gate. I rather saw 6-8 items you can Item Insure but make so the items you Item Insure need to be equip able items, so you need to equip them to Insure them.

We do need a way to stop grieffers, also them with alot gold in their bank. Players who had been here for years should not have advantage over new Siege PvP'ers but we also know, some of them have alot to learn about how to share the fun. Lets say, we will see alot more miners mining for granit or alot more lumber jacks, when we get TOL, we need a way to handle PK's, who want an easy kill and nice ressource loot.

Also we will see more PvP thieves, if they can Item Insure their gear, so maybe if crim, when you die, item will drop on corpes even if they was Insured

 

[Kat]

We will always have the haves and the have nots, some can afford Item Insurance, some can not.
What about, if you want to Item Insure equipped items, it works like VvV stat loss but for all, if you want to Item Insure your items, it should not cost alot (I would say, make it free) but you will have to wait 5 min to reequip them unless you use stat loss remove poison (VvV) or a new version from low level mob spawn. Like stat loss remove poision, it only work once each 20 min, maybe once an hour for non VvV.

One problem with making it only for equipped items are, many run with more than one weapon and some switch jewelry to gate. I rather saw 6-8 items you can Item Insure but make so the items you Item Insure need to be equip able items, so you need to equip them to Insure them.

We do need a way to stop grieffers, also them with alot gold in their bank. Players who had been here for years should not have advantage over new Siege PvP'ers but we also know, some of them have alot to learn about how to share the fun. Lets say, we will see alot more miners mining for granit or alot more lumber jacks, when we get TOL, we need a way to PK's, who want an easy kill and nice ressource loot.

Also we will see more PvP thieves, if they can Item Insure their gear, so maybe if crim, when you die, item will drop on corpes even if they was Insured

Why make it difficult for the devs to implement?? You know they aren't going to put much, if ANY effort into fixing Siege. That is the reason I suggested using the Siege Bless option to "insure" all equipped items. The function is already there and would only need to be tweaked to allow for more than 1 bless. Adding a cost amount to the equation and stat loss similar to VvV, wait 5 minutes to re-equip only makes it a lot more difficult for the devs to code.

I have no problem with your suggestions, I just don't see the devs putting in that amount of effort for us. If I could pick 1 thing out of the tradeoffs you suggested, I would pick a 5 or 10 minute statloss or inability to re-equip. I think either of those is a fair trade-off for free insurance. For thieves, I have to stand firm that nothing in the pack can be Siege Blessed. We get a lot of thieves that want to try Siege and to screw them over would be detrimental. They have limited opportunities as is, unless they are crate thieves.

I think Siege Bless Insurance is fair to all, even newbies. They will eventually collect gold and items they want to run with. That is just part of being a newbie. We have all been there and we are a helpful community that will help them up the ranks. Heck, I have had some of the most vile, hated PK's on the shard in my guild, who have helped new players. Even those guys [and girls] have a heart and will stop their gameplay to help out a new player.



Here are the highlights of the idea:

1. Use the existing Siege Bless function to create "Siege Bless Insurance", which gives all players the option of blessing any or all equipped items.

2. There will be no cost involved that drains their bank accounts. [Possible tradeoff of statloss or inability to re-equip for 5-10 minutes]

3. Winner of the battle can still loot backpack items IE pots, bandies, pet balls, petals, bolas, dungeon loot, etc.

4. Contents of the backpack are not blessable.

5. Everyone will get to re-equip easier and get back to having FUN again.

6. With crafted items having the ability to break after a time, crafters have the opportunity to offer their services to replace those items.


To me that sounds like a win, win, win, win for everyone on the shard.

 

[Tanivar]

...we need a way to PK's, who want an easy kill and nice ressource loot.

It can't be made to easy or the resource gatherers will stop gathering anything because all their hours of work won't benefit them, just the pkers who loot them. Leave the difficulty as it is now so that the pker has to put forth an effort to find and kill us. We work for our rewards, the pker should have to work in some fashion as well to get our rewards. Let's not go the route that got tram created back in 2000.

 

[FrejaSP]

It can't be made to easy or the resource gatherers will stop gathering anything because all their hours of work won't benefit them, just the pkers who loot them. Leave the difficulty as it is now so that the pker has to put forth an effort to find and kill us. We work for our rewards, the pker should have to work in some fashion as well to get our rewards. Let's not go the route that got tram created back in 2000.

You misunderstood me, I did mean, we need a way to handle PK's, who want an easy kill and nice ressource loot, I forgot the word handle. I did mean, if they just res and don't lose their gear, we have no way to stop them grief crafters and other weak players.

If we allow more Siege Bless items, we will see red killers, we can't stop and we may also see some blue noto PK, who are even harder to stop. Right now, it is no problem, but if Broadswords success get UO active again, it will be a problem.

Kat I also want to see more have fun and be able to make it here, but I had been here sinse day 1 and I'm worried as looting is important, when it comes to control grief play and scripting. Siege never had Item Insurance. Only thing that make it the problem with replace a suit.

If we got a mega resist bost to our items, that would be much easier. Changes basis resist on items from 15-30 and alot more items would be useful.
Second, make lesser magic items have less mods, then it's easier to add a few mods and to find jewelry with just fast cast. Make minor have one mod, lesser 2 mods, greater 3 mods, major 4 mods and only artifacs should have 5+ mods, that would help all shards.

 

[kelmo]

Poor reds...

 

[HoldenCaulfield]

I don't mean to sound like a dry-looting madman, as I rarely loot anyone. But I think you will find you will miss that option were it to disappear. It is the only way to really deal with some...situations.

How often do you really see a fight on the field that is all about gear? More often it is number differences or tamers or some other flavor. Otherwise it is arranged fights or duels where people have already decided to loot or not.

I guess it is a bit catch-22 as in more recent years, I more often see people come here, look for a fight, and leave because of the population...not because of gear loss. Maybe there just aren't the opportunities to lose your gear much anymore.

Look at how considerably easier we made this shard already from the "glory" days. But the population still shrinks...

• Skill Gain - At one time people thought Skill Gain was the problem - too hard to train here. Remember when we had to actually adhere to RoT limits? Now we have alacricity scrolls, SOTs, no limits. Not to mention soulstones
• Housing - Then it was housing - it was claimed people didn't want to move from Tram to here and give up all their stuff or pay for another acct. . Now you can have your house here and Prod. Used to be one or the other. Also add in hubs and teleporters.
• Gear - Sure not amazing gear, but you can get pretty decent pieces quickly by farming for a fraction of the time you used to. There just are very,very few vendors selling anything...

I know there were buyback contracts in the past between groups, but it usually fell apart because someone would end up looting. That can be fixed with strong guild leadership and siege justice. We don't need a coding change.

"Contracts not Code"

 

[Tanivar]

There just are very,very few vendors selling anything...

Main problem here is the lack of customers, it's like opening a Walmart Superstore in a tiny town, the demand isn't there.

I've set up a greenhouse in Zento beside my house and have added a floor to it with tables I'm piling imbuing items on as I gather them (slowly, it is summer ) with two vendors I can put stuff on for purchase if someone is interested in buying something. This will save me the vendor costs involved in selling stuff that there is little demand for. Haven't gotten around to placing a book with prices yet so they'll be whatever is agreed upon 'til then. The first floor has four teleporters among the plant vendors that go to the second floor where you can check the item quantities on the merchandise tables to see what is available.

The greenhouse and my house on the west side of it are straight west of the south end of the mountains north of Zento.