Wenchy's Jewelry issue

[Guest]

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I know it took me and my peers a good bit of fumbling around to get the hang of pet handling

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but how does running around in a field telling false promises to unsuspecting animals going to make you better at pet handling?

I would really think it was actually going out and handling your pet that gave you the experience. Now Pet bonding I can see as a problem as it gives less incentive to learn pet "care", but +skill items really makes little difference to learning pet handling.

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Not all tamers are out there treating pets as slaughtering machines either. I feel terrible if a pet of mine dies, because to me it's my fault for letting them die.

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't run around promising animals to be friends then killing them afterwards? You didn't look for the best skilled pet and killed the rest? (after skills got introduced for pets) You don't kill and kill until you get a rare color?

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Funny enough, the ones I see with the worst attitude to their pets are the ones wearing the obligatory talisman of twinkness while riding a cu Easy come, easy go I guess

[/ QUOTE ]

Its more that +skill items allowed people with different motives to easier pick up the skill, which changed things.

 

[Llewen]

I'm a twink tamer. I have 105 real taming, with a +15 bracelet to give me 120 taming. I used an advanced character token to start my tamer, but I defy anyone to tell me I am not a "real tamer".

I've spent thousands of hours, literally, taming all of the more popular pets, I am one of the few pvp tamers that I know of that actually plays a "pure" tamer (ie. one with high vet, lore and taming, that actually goes out and spends a significant amount of time taming). I don't have anything to prove to anyone, other than myself, and I don't owe anyone an apology for my playstyle either.

Am I "the best" at anything? Very likely not. But I have a ton of fun playing the game, doing all kinds of things as a tamer, from peerless, to champ spawns, to hunting dragons, to pvp. For everything I do, I am certain there are other templates, classes and skill sets who could do what I am trying to do, much more easily, and much more successfully, but I have had so much fun doing it, and so much fun preparing myself to do it, in every way, that I don't begrudge anyone their greatness.

The point I am trying to make with this long ramble, is one that several others have made already, who really cares how you got where you are? The main issues are, did you have fun doing it, was the path there challenging, and did you learn something along the way? I can answer a resounding yes to all of those questions, and there is so much more to come.

This forum is generally a great forum. It is a great place to come and learn, and people are generally polite, and the discussions are generally animated and intelligent, all good things, but there is also an edge of elitism here that is not pleasant, and frankly this discussion, and others, has been salted by some, with that same elitism. You are a "twink", therefore you aren't a "real tamer" like I am, in my "pure" legendary godliness...

If the game changes, great, if we have some input into improving the game, and some of these discussions lead to real improvements that make the game more interesting and fun, terrific, but lets not waste our time and emotional capital judging others, and making them somehow feel less worthy, because they have made different choices, based on value judgments that are different than our own.

Let's have fun with the game the way it is now, and let others have fun with the game the way it is now, and maybe even join in the fun with them, if the opportunity arises. If the game changes in the future, which it most certainly will, I hope all of us will once again, make that decision to have fun with the game the way it is at that time, and not waste time and emotional capital wishing it was some perfect other, that it will certainly never be.

 

[Guest]

If one wishes to argue over every word one says they will.. if they choose not to try to comprehend what one says they will.......

I am who I am and I shall be who I am and I will continue to think and believe as I do...you want to believe I am wrong then be my guest ...you wish to pick apart anything anyone else says that does not mimic your views... go right ahead...

I do not need anyones approval from these forums, nor do I care if anyone respects or dislikes or even hates me... Either accept me as I am or dont...


Peace

 

[Guest]

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I am who I am and I shall be who I am and I will continue to think and believe as I do

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a pretty closeminded perspective though, why did you even post your previous rant if you're completely closed to anything else?

Why even post in a discussion forum?

But anyway, enough of that then, back to the discussion about tamers and skill jewelry.

 

[Guest]

when it comes to someone who wishes to tear apart anything anyone says they dont agree with its perfectly ok.. and there you go right now saying that I believe in who I am is close minded...

there is not just talking with you.. its always a debate... done with debates...

 

[Samaira]

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Funny enough, the ones I see with the worst attitude to their pets are the ones wearing the obligatory talisman of twinkness while riding a cu

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a cu fanboi, cant get enough of them. My "talisman of twinkness" is still sitting in my pack, and was only a week or so back removed from its former permanent place above my toon's left shoulder, to be replaced by a tali of the void.

However, I get annoyed and often angry when things go wrong and my pets die. For me its a vanity thing, cos I love that list of 100s... I'm a merciless vetter, and I believe, a good team-tamer. I always make sure I have everyone's petbars up when doing hunting, and often feel bad when I just miss that g-heal or a mob poisons a pet right before my bandie kicks in yada yada...

I know this comment was probably in jest, and you were most likely aware of the gross generalisation you were making. Just want to point out that assumptions are the mother of all ****ups. Not all of us who depend (sometimes heavily) on skill bonus items are twink tamers.

I chose to rely somewhat on items, but because of that I can diversify my template a little more from the stock standard 6x120 mage/tamer or disco/tamer.

 

[Guest]

"Pet handling" would seem to be more about the animal lore skill, which requires no animal culling at all to train - one could conceivably sit at a stable and lore pets until reaching their desired skill level.

"Taming," on the other hand, would logically require taming a whole bunch of animals in varying degrees of difficulty in order to progress in the skill. It's in that progression that knowledge of the profession is gained.

It made sense to begin with nonaggressives (farmyard critters), then non-magical aggressives (frenzies), and completing one's apprenticeship with firebreathing (anyone remember hell hounds?) and then firebreathing and/or magical aggressives.

Working with the pets you were able to tame meant learning such valuable, basic lessons such as auto-defend, Chaos, and why one receives the "You anger the beast" message even with 120 taming skill.

It's only with the advent of being able to skip the tamer's long apprenticeship that we see posts from tamers at 120 skill asking for help because they don't understand that it's completely by design when your pet shoots off the screen to kill that snake/mongbat/headless when the tamer is commanding it to kill something else entirely? Or cries of "OMG I'm 120 taming and I'm still getting "You anger the beast" messages," etc.

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Its more that +skill items allowed people with different motives to easier pick up the skill, which changed things.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed.

 

[Guest]

Bringing up a different viewpoint to it than yours is "tearing apart everything you say"?

 

[Guest]

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"Taming," on the other hand, would logically require taming a whole bunch of animals in varying degrees of difficulty in order to progress in the skill. It's in that progression that knowledge of the profession is gained.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, how often in real life do you see animal tamers go from animal to animal asking them if they want to be their friend, then club them over the head?

I am still of the belief that the whole profession could use an overhaul.

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Working with the pets you were able to tame meant learning such valuable, basic lessons such as auto-defend, Chaos, and why one receives the "You anger the beast" message even with 120 taming skill.

It's only with the advent of being able to skip the tamer's long apprenticeship that we see posts from tamers at 120 skill asking for help because they don't understand that it's completely by design when your pet shoots off the screen to kill that snake/mongbat/headless when the tamer is commanding it to kill something else entirely? Or cries of "OMG I'm 120 taming and I'm still getting "You anger the beast" messages," etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first part they really only learn by actually using their pets, which is no different than if you skipped the part. I totally agree that people twinking will be pretty bad at taming animals per default, but its always something you can learn if given enough time just like we were forced to have.

The "anger the beast" message wouldn't necessarily be something you'd know anything about either way, even if you manually trained it you wouldn't normally encounter this and unless you're part of a tamer community and/or read information, then you generally wouldn't know anything about it either way.

Most of us had to learn the hard way too, heck, I didn't know how it worked in the beginning either

 

[Guest]

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Seriously, how often in real life do you see animal tamers go from animal to animal asking them if they want to be their friend, then club them over the head?

[/ QUOTE ]Chaos, are you seriously asking me to equate normal real life with normal life within the realm of Sosaria? 'Cause, you know, there's a fair few people I wouldn't mind kal vas flamming on this side of the screen every now and again and I'd hate to be missing out when I could be indulging that little fantasy...

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I am still of the belief that the whole profession could use an overhaul.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed. I enjoyed many aspects of both the Creature Handler profession in Star Wars Galaxies (before it was removed) and of the Hunter in WoW. Guildwars, I understand has a similar profession, too, though I've not played that one. I'm not convinced +skill items should figure in that overhaul.

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The first part [working with pets you're able to tame] they really only learn by actually using their pets, which is no different than if you skipped the part.

[/ QUOTE ]Before the advent of +skill items, no one had access to an Uzi before they'd understood how to effectively use &amp; maintain a far simpler handgun.

Skipping past the farmyard critters, the frenzies &amp; hell hounds, and the once heady heights of dragons, drakes &amp; mares very effectively deprives the budding tamer of the natural progression which leads to understanding early on why &amp; how their pets act/respond/behave as they do in both the field and in dungeon settings.

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I totally agree that people twinking will be pretty bad at taming animals per default, but its always something you can learn if given enough time just like we were forced to have.

[/ QUOTE ]When you're already toting an Uzi, what's the incentive to learn the skill of or the why's &amp; wherefores of the handgun?

I remember very well your old Europa guild, Chaos, and it served most admirably in teaching those inclined to walk a tamer's path not only the skill &amp; methodology, but also the power inherent in being a tamer as well as the responsibility of having that power. None of that good stuff and certainly no knowledge or experience comes from a trinket or wearable item or combination of them.

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The "anger the beast" message wouldn't necessarily be something you'd know anything about either way, even if you manually trained it you wouldn't normally encounter this and unless you're part of a tamer community and/or read information, then you generally wouldn't know anything about it either way.

[/ QUOTE ]No, it could only be confusing if one fastforwarded past the natural skill gain progression, Chaos.

I knew all about anger cycles with my first aggressives as early on in my taming career as scorpions in the Compassion desert.

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Most of us had to learn the hard way too, heck, I didn't know how it worked in the beginning either

[/ QUOTE ]There is no +skill item which can replace experience or even simple trial &amp; error.

 

[Guest]

topic sidestepping...

I went to WoW to be a bit with some old friends (don't really like WoW overall), I made a hunter with speciality in Beast Mastery (chosen later). It was actually very cool, upon hitting level 10 I went to one of their pet sites and they literally have tons of pets to chose between, all with various different roles, I finally chose a boar (boars looked really cool, especially the grey/black ones). To get it I had to go with a clanmate, travel across the world in a over 2 hour long trek to find where a few of them spawn (they're pretty rare), I then had to tame it and return home, no mass killing of tons of animals to get it. I was actually delighted to learn that not only did I not have to replace the pet, it would level up with me and I could train it in a large number of passive and active abilities too, which I would have to learn through various sources. This little excursion in WoW reminded me of everything I had wished UO's taming to be over the years. Except I see UO actually having the potential of becoming even better if they completely revamped the whole taming system as I described in UO Hall.

<blockquote><hr>

I remember very well your old Europa guild, Chaos, and it served most admirably in teaching those inclined to walk a tamer's path not only the skill &amp; methodology, but also the power inherent in being a tamer as well as the responsibility of having that power. None of that good stuff and certainly no knowledge or experience comes from a trinket or wearable item or combination of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for the compliment

If you played on Europa in the old days, we might have met, I went under the name of Nostradamus in taming circles.

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There is no +skill item which can replace experience or even simple trial &amp; error.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but what I am saying is that a lot of the experiences of pet handling doesn't really come from taming itself (and its perfectly possible to naturally train animal taming up to dragons without having seen the anger message before), its something you learn from others and from practical experiences using your pet, so unless you actually take medium level pets out while you're training, you aren't really learning anything about pet handling.

A skill twink really has just about the same potential to learn things as any normal tamer does. And while we might spend 2 years on getting to legendary, they could spend those 2 years learning their pethandling with their chosen pets.

All that being said, I do agree that +skill items really was a failed implementation and never should have made it into the game in the first place. I am all for making real skill more useful than item skills.

 

[Guest]

We're kinda talking about jewellery... so yeah I'm discussing the normal ways we're all used to training taming and taming critters.

If you want an overhaul of taming I'm all for it. I don't like killing tames for gains, specially cos I'm veggie IRL, kinda not something I like the thought of. But right now it's either kill tames or live with a pack bears, because to raise the skill meant killing pixel animals. I'd love a better system, but that's the one we've got.

How much sense does it make that a dragon with it's legendary intelligence obeys someone because they have some jewellery on? There are many inconsistencies with taming, and the one I find most annoying is jewellery.

I would like to see some changes to taming gains, either shorten the time between attempts so we can gain at a faster speed, or add in some way to gain slowly by using pet handling skills. Just hard to work out a way to prevent some muppets hitting 120 by spamming "all follow me" to a sheep
I thought I was seeing things the first time I met a parry trainer with sheep. Was like "thought you warriors were tough, why are you abusing farm animals?" Folks pick the easy options so you need to allow for them in your thinking.

But while EA are at it, the lone skill of herding could have some nice features to make it a compliment for a pack using tamer, for example. Herding to keep a pack together makes sense to me. But I can hear growing screams of protest along the lines of "we have 360 points in our maxed tamers, where can we fit herding!" and I totally realise it's a lot of points.

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

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Thank you for the compliment If you played on Europa in the old days, we might have met, I went under the name of Nostradamus in taming circles.

[/ QUOTE ]I did and our paths crossed often, whilst I was training taming on both Vix &amp; Nico (once provo/tamer, turned pure bard, now pure bard with weaving for specialised para cu extermination).

<blockquote><hr>

No, but what I am saying is that a lot of the experiences of pet handling doesn't really come from taming itself (and its perfectly possible to naturally train animal taming up to dragons without having seen the anger message before)

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, it's possible now to bypass aggressives altogether when training taming skill. To my mind, gaining skill differs dramatically from gaining skill <u>numbers</u>.

<blockquote><hr>

unless you actually take medium level pets out while you're training, you aren't really learning anything about pet handling.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed.

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A skill twink really has just about the same potential to learn things as any normal tamer does.

[/ QUOTE ]Yet both are holding the same loaded Uzi I mentioned.

<blockquote><hr>

All that being said, I do agree that +skill items really was a failed implementation and never should have made it into the game in the first place. I am all for making real skill more useful than item skills.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed!

 

[Guest]

How much sense does it make that a dragon will obey you just because you've been running around wacking bulls and ridgebacks?

And btw, the solution would be simple, simply have a slight chance at gaining taming whenever your pet is gaining skill points in a similar point range. So if you're GM taming and your pet is gaining 80-120 range of skills, you have a chance of gaining, more the closer you are to 100+.

Your suggestion about herding is actually a good one, if its kept as a bonus for certain playstyles (like packs), it wouldn't really be a problem for regular 3xTamers.

 

[Guest]

Great post .. you took the thoughts right out of my head...

 

[Guest]

Great post .. you took the words right out of my mouth..

 

[Guest]

Excellant points and right on the mark!

 

[Guest]

Wow right on the money you are with those thoughts!

 

[Guest]

Holy cow chips Batman!!! right on the penny!!

 

[Guest]

Its so wicked feeling to not have a opinion... and to agree with everyone all the time... jeepers creepers life is so filled with bliss now....


NOT!

 

[Guest]

wow Microelf....6 posts without a typo!!! Well done!

lol

 

[Ceridwen DF]

<blockquote><hr>

Its so wicked...

[/ QUOTE ]

It´s

 

[Guest]

Ya I was trying to let him slide on that one.....hoping it was a cultural thing!

 

[Guest]

likez otays its fine that its it's or is it not rather than is and before the u there needs to be a q and sometimes just nothing and.......

 

[Guest]

for as long as I have said it's, I've yet to hear the ' when ever I say it...never hear the ' in any wordz Iz sayz... really I dontz duz U?

 

[Guest]

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for as long as I have said it's, I've yet to hear the ' when ever I say it...never hear the ' in any wordz Iz sayz... really I dontz duz U?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope...not once when I say it....but unlike you I can read....

That is when I notice it the most!

 

[Guest]

Reed? Weez bee reeding ands naut speek'ns? Suhpozes Id shudda lernded howz ta due dats ...

 

[Guest]

Haha yeah, LMAO! God I walked into that didn't I *giggles*

I'm too much of a dufus with items whenever I tried it tbh. The times my bard has forgot she's got her disco jewel on when she goes taming cus for gains... "what's wrong with me?!" as I try 20th attempt before the penny drops lol. Feel like such a dork

Wenchy

 

[SmithyPAC]

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Each to their own...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, what a funny set of words to say in a discussion such as this!

<blockquote><hr>

Each to their own...

[/ QUOTE ]

Could it be so simple?

<blockquote><hr>

Each to their own...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well let's see, this is a game. Some people play games for enjoyment, some for a challange. In fact I will bet there are some that play for both.

<blockquote><hr>

Each to their own...

[/ QUOTE ]

It would seem that the point of this thread was to get people's opinions on skill jewlery. For some it is a chance to say "hey if you use skill jewlery then you are not playing the correct way. You have not put in the time I did. You don't REALLY know what it is to be a tamer because you are not playing the way I do. You don't have a true sense of accomplishment because you didn't work as hard for it as I did." Others have jumped to the defense of their beloved items as the only way to make their template work or because they don't have the time to invest. In fact many people have put up many sound arguments for and against.

<blockquote><hr>

Each to their own...

[/ QUOTE ]

This topic seems to have so very little impact to me when compared to the mountain of unfinnished content / unaddressed glitches that have built up over the years.

Is EA going to suddenly remove all skill from all existing items? Probably not.

Is EA going to just stop spawinging new items with skills? Probably not.

Perhaps this is just something that is better left.....

<blockquote><hr>

Each to their own...

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[SmithyPAC]

<blockquote><hr>

All that being said, I do agree that +skill items really was a failed implementation and never should have made it into the game in the first place. I am all for making real skill more useful than item skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunatly many things have changed over the years. Some things that were introduced were great. Others well not so much.

In this case the lamp is empty and I don't forsee anything getting shoved back into it without much screaming and ranting. This discussion has been relativly civil compared to what I would expect were this to be announced that it was on EAs plate.

Is it possible for them to correct the system? History does not seem to be on their side. They have a pendulum and they are not afraid to use it.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


Hmmm, what a funny set of words to say in a discussion such as this!

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Because you'd rather I rammed my views even further down your throat? lol. When I say each to their own I mean quite simply that we can all choose our own paths and opinions with issues like this. All have a right to agree or disagree and I see no reason to get into a hissy fit over it. You have your play style, I have mine, and UO life goes on.

<blockquote><hr>

It would seem that the point of this thread was to get people's opinions on skill jewlery. For some it is a chance to say "hey if you use skill jewlery then you are not playing the correct way. You have not put in the time I did. You don't REALLY know what it is to be a tamer because you are not playing the way I do. You don't have a true sense of accomplishment because you didn't work as hard for it as I did." Others have jumped to the defense of their beloved items as the only way to make their template work or because they don't have the time to invest. In fact many people have put up many sound arguments for and against.

[/ QUOTE ]

The discussion would be much more productive here if folk didn't keep trying to read between the lines, pulling out meanings that are off target

It seems that because someone has a different opinion, it becomes necessary to re-write their post so it's easier to argue against.

Taming training has never been hard, only time consuming and boring. Yes there is satisfaction when your training time pays off with a new pet. No it isn't such a boost if you chucked on a bracelet to do so. I know, because I tried both ways with my first tamer and twinking to get a fire steed when they first came out just meant nothing. I'm pretty sure that many more tamers pottered around with little pets when I was training. Nowadays folks can easily skip that and end up at the cu sidhe spawn with some jewels and not the first clue how to lead tame a pup. They think that is where being a tamer begins. It isn't.

But hey, let's turn this discussion towards another angle. Those tamers here who have stopped training and use items to boost up - what stopped you training and what would get you started training again? I'm curious.

Wenchy

 

[drgn]

*throws hat into the ring*

the issue here, if it were something as simple as taking +skill jewelry out of the game, it would be a fine choice, take it, rid the game of it, fine by me (and i use +skill gear on one of my tamers and on one of my pvp chars). however, you run into the issue that since aos, the game has been slowly catering, balancing and tweaking to combat against and for 'supertwinks' as the norm. removing the skill jewelry youll find alot of characters that were 'JUST' getting by with skill points on absurdly cramped templates (such as my tamer).

if its just +taming, theres no change for me personally, but i still see it as being redundant, this is an all or nothing situation. and if it were changed to real skill being able to tame/be traded a pet? then thats fine! however, do the same for the following skills; magery, chivalry, necromancy, ninjitsu, bushido, and soon tactics im sure (just the usual suspects).

the reason that tamers REALLY get the 'bums rush' by alot of players is a few fold;
tamers are SEEN as elitest
tamers are SEEN as jerks
players are jealous of the quick kill skills, there seems to be some pally hate building based on this too

but dont you think that this 'the "taming" skill is special' approach isnt just further building the 'we are elitest' stigma?

changing +taming gear wont change peoples perceptions, or the place tamers have had in UO history, but it may make bragging rights a little more satisfying for those who feel the need to.

All or nothing

 

[Guest]

I think the most logical approach for EA to take is to gradually address any problems caused by + skill items. I can't see them going for an overnight change. I'd think something like changing bonding to look at real skill would give the taming side of things a wee bit more balance.

I'm not a skill + item user on any real scale, so I've not really commented about other professions. I guess barding is another where items are an issue, but I'm not sure. Some professions wouldn't really notice items vanishing if they don't use them widely. I know I tend to dismiss skill items out of hand on all but my tamer bard because it seems to mess with damage output or defence.

I don't build the taming thing as special just because it's taming, though I talk more on boards about taming because I'm so seldom playing a non tamer

Yeah the issue for me is different. Just because as I said before, the pets are weapons and no less effective for a jewel user compared to real skill. If a tamer's pets did significantly less damage while they used items, or pets couldn't bond, then I'd say there was some balance to it.

Must admit I'm not really into bragging, I'm usually off to liches to sacrifice fame the minute I know my title shows heheh.

Wenchy

 

[SmithyPAC]

I am not sure but I believe you may have read something that I did not intend into my comments.

Well that is human nature, when we read something or hear something even though the words are what they are many people will understand them with slight differences.

When I said that's funny it was meant in the context that such truley did seem to be amusing (not in a bad way) as conversations about items and the benefits that they give in UO since AOS often lead to different camps preaching across the wide space between their points of view. Middle of the road views just don't seem as common, of course I spend more time in UHall then here.

Believe me I am in neither camp really as I don't really make use of skill boosts for the most part other than a hunters headdress worn by my archer and an item used on one tamer. I also don't really have a problem with others using them because to me skill is not what is displayed in the skill list, that is a requirement to do something and the chance to succeed at it. Skill is what I do in game.

I have two tamers that I brought up to 110 taming some time ago. Never felt the need to go higher because 110 taming let me do everything I wanted. Sure I would take the extra stable slots but I tend to get ahold of a pet and fixate on it. I also just didn't have the time to put in to go much higher and I never seem to build up the gold needed to purchase a 120 taming scroll. To many other skills to build with my limited play/relaxation time. Recently I found a cheap 115 taming scroll so I bought it (can't help looking at every vendor I come across, I know that most contain junk, but some times you find a gem and being a born packrat well you can guess what my storage looks like). I had a ring that I had been using for some time on one of my tamers (15 DCI, 99 luck, +10 taming, +20 enhancing potions and another non-skill property I can't remember at the moment) and said what the heck it's only gold (for some reason this attitude seems to result in alot of empty bank boxes for me, go figure). So now I have two toons that use skill items (out of 10). What would it take for me to start training taming again (other than the gold to buy the scrolls)? A reason to do such other than just do to it. I anticipate that at some point I will have built up every skill as far as I can go but on a limited time to invest in a game it will take me a while to get back to taming (in case you have not guessed I love soul stones, fragments and have two toons that just store skills).

While most of my toons undergo regular changes in skill groupings just to try things out my tamers are very stable because from my point of view they are just right.

Now sometimes my posts will wander off on their own as I type and forget why I started (I get interuped alot). You can probably even find some where I have made a 180 at some point during the conversation. For this I appologize to anyone who takes offense.

Anyway, short answer based on OP's question based on your comment from another thread: Skill increases for taming on items: OK Skill increases for VET on items: OK Skill increases in general on items: OK

But the dev team should have thought this out better than they did when the first put it in, perhaps skill boosts from items should only take the highest bonus to a skill and not have been added together? but they didn't so here we are.

 

[Guest]

I think it comes down to the goals folk set for themselves. Having seen very few non twinked tamers lately, I think a real skill of 90+ is an achievement hehe.

What I always say especially to younger tamers is to try ensuring you have real skill to control at least 75-80% of the time. Otherwise a jewel that doesn't get put on after you resurrect can lead to a wild pet. This is when allowing a char to boost both taming and lore to a max of 45 in each skill is nuts. I've seen tamers with that level of kit on who still couldn't control a cu. One of which had his pup go wild as he macro's unattended and returned to find it rehomed to a more thoughtful owner.

It never helps me like twinking when I'm in the twisted wield regularly. Darn place is a magnet for every twink and lazy trainer around, to the point where I sometimes wonder if real skill tamers are becoming a rare breed

Wenchy

 

[Al Thorin]

Well, I consider myself a real tamer.
I lacked Vet way back, because I healed with Magery, but picked it up when pet bonding was introduced.

I use to have GM Taming, GM Lore.

When Bonding came around, it was GM Taming, Lore, and Vet.

Overtime as I adjusted my template, and my suit, I ended up dropping taming to 90, and used a good +taming 2/6 set.
I -still- have 300 skill points of real skill, and never waivered when JOT could replace lore outright.

Why did I pick taming?
Because they were the first +skill items of proper grade I found. It used to be Taming/Lore, then Taming/Vet, now it's Taming/Taming.


I really don't think there's a huge issue with +Taming items. I trained it the hard way, and really don't care if someone else does or not.
There's all sorts of 'lesser' tamers who don't understand the system, who can't properly lead tame, or don't know how to properly control their pets. They can be real skill, or 'twinked'.

Removing +skill jewlery isn't going to change anything. All the +skill jewlery/items does is permit more people who do not have the patience to train Taming high enough, which I don't think is bad.
Most of the people with that low of patience don't make very good tamers anyways, and it doesn't bother me in the least that they exist.

I've chased most tamers out of Fel already on my shard, and will continue to target them first when they do try to come over. Jewlery won't change how many try, or how long they stick around for.

 

[JoyousGard]

How about this? Make some pets "Real Skill" pets. So none of this 120 only tameable, but you must have 100 real to tame and control the "Insert Name Here" Dragon that is basically the same dragon, but maybe with slightly better resists and stats.

That is a good solution IMO. BC right now I want cool pets and it is irritating to have to tame panthers. But I know that when I get to 100 or 110 or 120 real I will feel like these jerks are getting all the same high end pets with only minimal work.

To sum up, the real skill versions of say 4 or 5 high end (or low end) pets will have a different "wild" name and (unique) hue and will have slightly better resists and stats.

Is that fair? So then, I can tame a dragon and kick ass with it. The old timers can tame a "Insert Name Here" dragon, kick ass with it, and gain a certain social status/respect with it without gaining some new "Balronian" Dragon that overpowers every single other tameable..

 

[Fluffi]

I was the one who responded to the "should we have more control slots" with:


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jonblackjon said:


1) The player must have at least 115.0 skill in all 3 Tamer skills. Twinks not invited...this is a dedicated Tamer perk.







Fluffi Bunni said:


No to more follower slots.

Yes to more stable slots for everybody, with tamers getting proportionally more than non-tamers.


Now, if I may hijack this thread a little...

Why does the word "twink" only get bandied-around when tamers are being discussed?

I don't think I've ever seen a thread suggesting that any other skill should only be usable by someone with no +skill jewels.
The recent changes deal with the PvP multi-skill/tamer templates (which is the only place where "twinking" was really an issue.

The arguments for and against skill increase items and jewels apply to all templates for which such items are available. Whether these items are a good thing is irrelevant in this discussion: They exist, and are available to all templates, so why is there so much hate concerning only tamers?


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I would be in favour of removing ALL skill-buff items from UO, but as I doubt that this will happen anytime soon, I am happy to use such items, and have no problem with others using them.

There seems to be an assumption that skill-item users are mostly clueless when it comes to actually playing the buffed character; this is certainly not the case.

I've done a quick audit of my characters and have come-up with the following list of buffing items they carry. (I have only counted buffs which are appropriate to their template)

PvP thief: +84
peace tamer +69
crafter +65
bard mage +40
archer +29
necromage +15
fisher +12
paladin +11


I'm not the most successful thief on my shard, or the most experienced tamer, or the greatest crafter, but I do certainly know how to play these "twinked" characters.



Buffing items exist are going to continue to exist for quite a while, so whilst I congratulate anyone who has a selection of 6x120 natural-skill characters, to try to belittle those who make use of freely-available items is nothing but Luddite posturing.

 

[mat690]

IMO the issue with skill jewelry is one of trying to balance effort with reward, make something to easy and it becomes worthless and boring and pisses off the people who achieved when it was still difficult but if you make something to hard then you alienate people who don't have a lot of time to play the game putting them in the situation of feeling they will never achieve anything.

skill jewelry is an attempt to get the balance right, people with little time can have high level tamers by using jewelry and tamers who took time to train the skill up get two free jewelry slots they don't have to use for skill and can use other jewelry to make themselves powerful in some other way.

now to be honest i don't think the reward of two jewelry slots is worth the effort in the case of taming given how hard taming is to raise and that there are no jewels that really improve a tamer all that much anyway aside from the skill jewelry.

however for warrior and magery skills that are not so hard to raise and benifit more from non skill jewelry the system works well and i think it works well for the bard skills as well because there are 4 different bard skills and if you use jewelry for one you have to choose not to use it for one of the others.

I think what will balance the effort with the reward with taming is a new taming related skill that might increase the number of control slots or allow the taming of any monster but only for a limited time period after which it goes wild, that way players with not much time still get their tamers and tamers that train the skill get something worth while that will reward their efforts.