Wenchy's Jewelry issue

[Guest]

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They should remove all + to skill items. No matter what skill they may be.

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agreed...

 

[Guest]

going to be a arse and remind everyone this is not UHall.... if I can behave here so can everyone else....

 

[Guest]

Erm wrong again, I've bought advanced chars in the past to shuffle pets off an account I was closing. If someone wants to spend RL cash instead of training I don't have an issue with it. If I hadn't been pushed for time when I did that myself I'd have trained instead, but no biggie.

And what exactly is there to be jealous of? LOL.

Try reading my posts properly, rather than putting words in my mouth that don't make sense.

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

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i see so this is not about the tamming jewlery really it about being agisnt people who have the extra cash to spend on there hobby and do so as opposed to alot of us who don't hae the extra cash.

so it is about jeloiusy and having or having not and nothing about playin the game really

[/ QUOTE ]Not for me it isn't and I didn't actually see where Wenchkin said anything of the sort. It's not price or cost, Mjolnir, but value and worth.

How much longevity is likely to be found in perpetual immediate gratification?

How long until even bashing that instant pleasure button becomes tedious (or we burn out our seratonin receptors) and we begin searching for the next, newer, bigger, better buzz?

I don't actually know of any swifter method of removing challenge and obliterating any satisfaction for achievement in a gaming environment than to instantly give someone everything they might ever possibly want.

On the other hand, make me earn it...Give me some milestones in-between where I can celebrate having made it *this* far before buckling down and working towards the next landmark...Make it so I have to work towards achieving it...and I'll happily keep beavering away at it until I master it. And once I *do* master it, I'll feel real good about having accomplished an in-game goal.

 

[Guest]

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They should remove all + to skill items. No matter what skill they may be.

[/ QUOTE ]/signed

 

[Guest]

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I don't actually know of any swifter method of removing challenge and obliterating any satisfaction for achievement in a gaming environment than to instantly give someone everything they might ever possibly want.



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To me another way is for things to be out of a players reach ... as in just playing the game as it was meant to be played with out power gaming it...

As in, amassing the gold to buy just one thing these days...or having to just focus on training and not gaining via just playing the game.. yes training is playing, I so dislike the.. at this skill level one needs to do this in order to gain and then at the next point do this action over and over...

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

They should remove all + to skill items. No matter what skill they may be.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed...

[/ QUOTE ]
*blinks*
*faints*

 

[mjolnir131]

ok without being accused of not being nice and i'm not nice well in the original use of the word nice which i think nice very much has evolved back to meaning (if you don't know what i mean and can't find it pm me i'll explain)

ok so if i spend real money its ok but if i spend play money its not just think about what your saying and how silly that is

and what is really the case here is that our skill should be devided into two(animal tamer, animal trainer) but thats another thread we can start but taming is the one skill i would have to say that should have more skill items than any one in the game why becouse it's about the only skill you don't accually get gains from using it in combat you get lore and vet gains that way but not the main


<blockquote><hr>

Erm wrong again, I've bought advanced chars in the past to shuffle pets off an account I was closing. If someone wants to spend RL cash instead of training I don't have an issue with it. If I hadn't been pushed for time when I did that myself I'd have trained instead, but no biggie.

[/ QUOTE ]

your play style is that you enjoy the taming part and that is great but alot of people don't they like having the pets without having to spend litterly years to get to 120 or a year to get to gm now if the traing time was not so great you might have more of a case

mr tact who to be honest i think did alot of negitive things for this game did make one point in a dev post a few years back that was dead on true you should be able to make a 7 gm char in 6 to 9 months of game play that seems about right now if you take a char and start with 50 taming and work taming only it's going to be 8 months before you get to yur first gm unless your really lucky and lore hits really fast and then your still taking 8 to 9 months for for gm in your prmary and even though you worked threw this, that time frame is very unacceptable and alot of people are smart enough to realise this and work around it

and that is totally the bottom line the game is for enjoyment having fun get that! now its great you got to 120 without using any item good for you, you competed with yourself and set your goals and hit them bully for you. but and here is the part you don't like but it's the truth that other guy did exactly the same thing set his goals and worked threw them now your path was more dierct in what needed to be done his took alot more tinkering around finding a match bottom line they are equally viaable and equally correct what is not correct it the almost vemious disdain you have for the person who was used his head a little more
to be honest it is almost identical the the racists who blaim not having a job on the (insert what ever group that person hate here) really i had a roommae back in collage that blaimed every ill of the world on the jews they controled everything he would get drunk and cry physically cry about how they had screwed up the world and messed his live over sounds silly i know but this disdain for skill mods sounds just like it i'm sorry

on a side note........

about what is polite and what is not who is being a true freind and who is not. i have something for you to think about.....

say you have somebody at work with really really bad BO now who is the better person the people who are afraid to say anything to there face in fear of hurting that persons feelings and possable talk about them behind there back or allow others to do so or the one who pulls them over to the side and is very direct and says we have a problem we need to work on here about your body oder now they just imbarised the person but atlest they are trying to help .... think about it the next time you think somebody is being a little to harsh are they being harsh to be harsh or to just get your attention so you stop to think?

 

[Guest]

I am just shocked by the hypocrisy in this forum. When the discussion was stable slots I was repeatedly put to the irons with comments of " How does me having 60 stable slots effect your enjoyment of the game"

My consistant reply would be that it would lead to scripting for hight ed pets. I was continually poo poo for not having a clue as to what I was talking about.

Now the exact same people are screaming in outrage cause you can buy an advance character token...train for a weekend add some jewels and bang be legendary. But how does it hurt you because someone else can do that? The answer is it doesn't. You may not want to be groupped in with someone who has done that, because you feel it diminishes you lustre. The hard fact is.....it doesn't effect you one bit!

If you want a challenge...if you want things to be hard...great.....that is why games have difficulty settings....UO's difficulty settings are things like advance character tokens, and skill items. Some people want a challenge and have time for a challenge...some just don't! I am fortunate. My lifestyle allows me to waste countless hours of my life playing games, reading novels, moderating forums, and generally being a pain in the a$$ to people like Microelf.

I have some friends that are lucky to have 2 hrs in a week to play. They want to play with me and our other friends in that 2 hrs, they don't want to have to train, or fight lesser monsters. But people here feel they are within their rights to say....no you shouldn't be allowed to do that, because....it offends me. Many of these people aren't lazy, they work two jobs and have families, donate time to the community etc. Lets not be so quick to judge others.


EA makes the game appeal to a larger client base by giving people an option. Remember that is the only difference between UO and all the other crap out there. UO has and will endure because it gives you the most options for game play! Don't limit other peoples options because you don't like them.

I saw the exact same thing in the TH forum when the RNG was removed. Any player now can gm lockpicking in a weekend as opposed to a year minimum that was required in the past. Two or three locked boxes to get from Zero to Gm is all that is needed compared to the hundreds I use to keep in my public lockpick house. People who had spent that year or more were outraged......I personally was overjoyed and wrote a FAQ on how to do it in a weekend.


You want to make a difference lobby for world wide gun control, or the abolition of land mines. Leave skill gain items alone.....if I or anyone else choose to play the game on the easy setting, or the medium setting, it is none of your business. You go play your game on the hard setting and have fun!

Howlin
TW

 

[Guest]

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I am just shocked by the hypocrisy in this forum. When the discussion was stable slots I was repeatedly put to the irons with comments of " How does me having 60 stable slots effect your enjoyment of the game"



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Pfft... your the alpha and a mod there by your flagged grey and a free kill...... simple...

 

[Guest]

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Now the exact same people are screaming in outrage

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Have to disagree... aint heard one scream... no matter how hard I press the ear against the monitor I aint hearing any...

 

[Guest]

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Pfft... your the alpha and a mod there by your flagged grey and a free kill...... simple...

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Um Micro...that is you're not your . You're is short for "you are" it is call a contraction. "Your" symbolizes possession.

As in:

TW your arrogance is showing.

As opposed to:

TW you're such an arrogant wise arse!

TW

 

[Guest]

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Have to disagree... aint heard one scream... no matter how hard I press the ear against the monitor I aint hearing any...



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Hey Rocket Scientist.......turn your mute button off!


heheh

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You know this is changing from a thread on Tamer's and their Jewelry to a Discussion on Tamer Ethics.

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One must concider ethics...... after you think a large portion of the non tamer using player base doesnt like tamers just because we are cute, funny and grand to be around? nope its due to the dont give a care about anyone tamers that have abused the fact they tote around a very large weapon thats hard to miss while they waltz into a spawn area and without a thought all kill everything on screen without a regards to whom ever else is there and what they are dancing with..

Ethics apply to everyone but we tamers are more obvious on screen...

 

[Guest]

yer your yer your you are your your yer...

neener neener...

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I am just shocked by the hypocrisy in this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]Hilarious! Ask a loaded question then label anyone who doesn't happen to agree with you a hypocrit. Nice set up, TW.

<blockquote><hr>

Now the exact same people are screaming in outrage cause you can buy an advance character token...train for a weekend add some jewels and bang be legendary. But how does it hurt you because someone else can do that? The answer is it doesn't.

[/ QUOTE ]Others' requirement or simple preference for instant gratification doesn't hurt me, offend me or even affect me directly. Indirectly, however, I strongly suspect near-immediate access to advanced gameplay is responsible for slowly strangling the life out of UO.

<blockquote><hr>

EA makes the game appeal to a larger client base by giving people an option. Remember that is the only difference between UO and all the other crap out there. UO has and will endure because it gives you the most options for game play! Don't limit other peoples options because you don't like them.

[/ QUOTE ]I have a theory that there's a very good reason for other games ensuring a player can't pay a lil extra and have instant access to whatever might be considered advanced gameplay. Give someone everything they ever wanted without having had to expend much effort in achieving it and once they've posed &amp; preened in front of whomsoever it is they wish to impress, they'll swiftly grow bored &amp; depart for pastures or games new (be it more challenging ones or ones in which they can again effortlessly suck up all the good stuff).

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Lets not be so quick to judge others.

[/ QUOTE ]Ya mean like callin'em hypocrits, fer example?

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You want to make a difference lobby for world wide gun control, or the abolition of land mines. Leave skill gain items alone.....

[/ QUOTE ]Nope. I'll be glad to see the back of skill items. By stark contrast, I support your right to express your opinions even while you attempt, dramatically, to restrict mine &amp; others.

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if I or anyone else choose to play the game on the easy setting, or the medium setting, it is none of your business. You go play your game on the hard setting and have fun!

[/ QUOTE ]I already am! I'm voting with my feet, training up chars on Siege where items come not nearly so easily as items go again.

It's actually enormous fun running around with zero magery, zero offensive skills, and with just whatever critters I'm able to tame without any benefit of any skill items. As it stands, most days that taking on whatever the shard can throw at me with a new pack of unbonded timber wolves (no joke &amp; no offense either).

Nevermind blaze cu magnet lol, right now I appear to be a dark wisp magnet!

 

[Guest]

Saying a forum is full of hypocrisy is not the same as calling someone a hypocrit. As a Mod You at the very least should know the difference. One is an opinion, the second is a personal attack.

The question much like a gun maybe loaded, but how and where it goes off is the responsibility of the person that shoots it. ( or shoots their mouth off..hehehe)

<blockquote><hr>

Indirectly, however, I strongly suspect near-immediate access to advanced gameplay is responsible for slowly strangling the life out of UO.



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Perhaps or it could be people who believe that their way is the only right way to play UO! No way of knowing for sure...but definately food for thought!


I am glad to hear you are having fun on SP. Once again another great part of UO.....if you don't want skill items, and want a harder challege go there....but leave part of the game alone for those without your skill or desire. There is plenty of game to go around, maybe we should let people play it the way that best suits and fills their needs.

As long as they remain within the game plan laid out in the TOS.

Ciao
TW

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Saying a forum is full of hypocrisy is not the same as calling someone a hypocrit. As a Mod You at the very least should know the difference. One is an opinion, the second is a personal attack.



[/ QUOTE ]

hmm how many of us post here on a regular basis? its not like there are a billion regulars here....

 

[moratha]

I don't know about you guys, but I like having 820 skills (massive skill jewelry).

Real skills look like this. &gt;&gt;&gt; With jewelry I look like this
Animal Lore 115 &gt;&gt; &gt; Animal Lore 120 (bird tali)
Animal taming 105 &gt;&gt; &gt; Animal Taming 120 (tali and ring)
Magery 90 &gt;&gt;&gt; Magery 110 (bracer/book)
Meditation 100 &gt;&gt; &gt; Meditation 110 (book)
Music 95 &gt;&gt; &gt; Music 120 (ring/bracer)
Peace 100 &gt;&gt; &gt; Peace 120 (ring/bracer)
vet 110 &gt;&gt; &gt; Vet 120 (bracer)

Ring looks like this. &gt;&gt; Bracer looks like this. &gt;&gt; Book
Animal Taming 10 &gt;&gt; Magery 10 &gt;&gt; Magery 10
Meditation 7 &gt;&gt; Meditation 6 &gt;&gt; Meditation 10
Music 15 &gt;&gt; Music 11
Peace 12 &gt;&gt; Peace 10
FCR 2 &gt;&gt; Vet 11

The highest skill count on a single piece of jewelry I have, or have ever seen, is 56. But I guarantee if you look long/hard enough, you can find something to fit any template perfectly.

So with that in mind, I don't see how I could keep a skill without the insane amount of skills off of items. I got the bracer from a level 6 chest. And I paid 1 mil for the ring.

So what if I'm not a "real" legendary tamer, my skills work just fine, and I have more versitility than most who believe real skills are manditory. I guarantee you'll never build a skill to 100 from scratch using jewelry/items. So it's better to hold back on some skills and find jewelry to boost to that final destination while bringing up that 7th or 8th skill to a usable point with leftover skill points/jewelry.

I also have no desire for fc/fcr items, as vet plus slow greater heal time perfectly with each other and I've never desired to throw that off. And 110 meditation keeps me fairly full on mana.

 

[Samaira]

I think what we're coming to, here, folks, is Advanced Char Tokens. Despite the four slots of skill bonus for Taming, this seems to be where the problem lies.

I do agree that a brand new player should not be able to jump in at the deep end and have a full stable of hard-hitting pets in their first few days. Despite what I've been reading a lot lately (mostly in UHall, granted) I believe the "point" of games like UO is that there is no true Endgame. The journey is the point, and all that rot.

I would love to see a wee (dare I say it?) nerf to the Advanced Char Token. Maybe cap the skills at 70 instead of 85... but more than this I believe that once an account has trained a skill once, it should gain quicker upon subsequent occasions. Yeah sure, the business of selling accounts would get around this, and one player with multiple accounts would still have to do that hard first grind, but if this was the case, I'd have never even considered a token for my stable-space tamer.

Leave skill bonus items. We're in too deep to go back, sad though that is. Tokens are the problem. But let's be realistic: EA will never change that easy money-earner. Sad but true.

 

[Guest]

on the skill increase and advanced token bit... I could agree on the advance bit for the established player... they know how to train.. and it does get to be a bore to retrain a skill a billion times...

but for the new player they lose the knowledge gained in how to play the game with the instant action tokens.. or the bump the skill up

there are pro's and con's to both... and one can take either side and discuss, debate them till the end of time if one cares not to see either side of the coin so to speak...

But no matter .. someone is going to be mad if they are removed and someone is going to be mad while they stay...

 

[mjolnir131]

i think there are two types of people who do this and on one of the types just about everybody goe threw that stage when your out with your first bigger pet and don't relise what it can do(i don't consider the unis i worked with getting to 106 a big pet)and that was it i did PB and when i got to being able to do uni did that until 106.whatever well amybe a few swampys throwen in for freindswhen i hit like 100 i think) andway i did not really hunt i had a bear pack but none of them wear really trained i just followed the animals around. i had to accually go out with a group of new chars to a easier dungee with my pet and walk around with it and kept it out of fights to learn how not to piss people off
this lead me to act like somebody who started a tamere a week ago becouse i had not spent that much time hunting and it's a phaze everbody goes there you have to notice your doing it or have it pointed out to you when it happens with the smaller pets its not so bad but you still go threw that phaze
the othere group are the i don't care guys and every templet has those they are the same fighter mages that during ToT have evs going in 2 diffent places and are fighting a 3rd just so there chance at a arty goes up. i raely use war mode on my dexers and archers most have bush and i honor them so i don't attack first my necros and ninja are the exeption&gt; i look at it this way if its withing 2-3 tiles of you it's yours and i'll not attack it i may stand there and make sure your health bar goes up but thats about it but that is now after haing to learn that leason, i use to be the biggest get between everybody else and the monster hunter out there

what i'm sayuing is it's not how long somebody has been a tamer that makes them act bad i know lots of tamers on gl that are and have been for year the all kill clean the dungen hunter and surply after all theis time they are running natural skill if not they have been playing long enough to have it

people are people and if they speand months taming or days your going to have nice one and your going to have poopieheads and time in grade really does not change that .... end of line

 

[Guest]

*whispers* unicorns are only 95.1, fire steeds (what Im guessing you meant) are 106ers and they are not worthy of such high taming... least to me..

 

[mjolnir131]

ok so if twikers are not really tamers becouse they get to use there skills to fast are SP tamers real tamers? you can gm tamming on sp in right at 20 days give or take assuming you started with 50 nad how long it took you to get to 70

just a question and just wondering where the pixel racism starts and stops

 

[Guest]

Feel like I'm repeating stuff that most regulars here already heard before, but ach well

Using items or advanced chars doesn't mean I dislike you on any level. The only twinks I dislike are those I know from game experience are jerks, invariably the most extreme twinks who take an out of control cu, park at swamps and jump every bird that spawns like a greedy kid gulping sweets. I also know a similar quantity of jerks with legendary titles too, because tamers of all shapes are jerks. But those are the ones I dislike most, because without those items, they'd be elsewhere.

I have an issue with EA catering too much to the want it now folks, encouraging a downward spiral where nobody can be bothered doing anything for themselves. Because I know of numerous friends who are that way in game for exactly that reason. The more they get, the less they aim for.

I don't have issue with advanced chars either. Get a tamer going, get some kitsune and off you go. I did exactly that myself. I have bigger pets stabled on that char for safekeeping, but she just uses kits to hunt. Works great.

So why in heck does a newbie char need more than that as a start? Whenever kits come into discussions folks are "yeah, they're great pets," so what's the big problem with saying "ok, you can get this far with items, here's your kitsune and you train for the other pets" ? Let items work to boost to 85, then stop. Can one of the objecting tamers please explain why such a popular pet is so terrible all of a sudden? Why a tamer is rubbish unless they can instantly have any pet in the game?

My issue isn't with 1 item, or an advanced char. It's the stack effect of being able to max out all at once. There is zero motivation to train. It's not about it taking 6 months, I know some friends who never trained at all.

Or maybe it would be more palatable to say "no bonding without real skill at min taming skill." *shrugs*

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

Pixel racism?! Oh god I nearly fell off my chair. LOL.

I don't care how fast someone gets gains on production or siege if it's legal, they trained and got their pets.

Think you need to get some pots to cure that training allergy

Wenchy

 

[mjolnir131]

i guess they are a staus symbol so you can look good sitting in NH and impress the new players

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

My issue isn't with 1 item, or an advanced char. It's the stack effect of being able to max out all at once. There is zero motivation to train. It's not about it taking 6 months, I know some friends who never trained at all.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am at 119.? taming it hits 120 when it hits 120 I could care less.
Actual taming skill won't ever hit GM in real skill pts
Lore about the same 119 and climbing Vet is still in the 118s.
I have room for them to all reach 120 one because of skill items.

You see Wenchy, with out skill items many of us can't play the templates we like. We have worked hard making these characters....we have earned the right to play them, just as you have earned the right to play yours.

You can't fit 790 pts on a template without skill items. So why is it you and others feel the it is right to modify our game...make us change our templates. We have broken no rules....we have not created inbalance. Every Veteran player I know says it isn't the items...it is the people behind them, and how they use them.

So why puniish us??? What because you and others dread the inevitable societal collapse that can only be stopped by the removal of skill gain items?

I want a peace/tamer and with soul stones and items he can be discord/tamer.
But mine also has to be a lockpicker for treasure hunts.

Wenchy how would you feel is a template you loved was at risk of destruction
for no good reason. No reason except a moral indignation by those that are known as the elite.

Skill gain jewels have no reasonable effect on anyone that chooses not to use them. But they not using them isn't enough, now they want to control everyone elses use.

What is next.....someone feels the virtues are too powerful? So instead of not using them, they want them removed from the game? Over Half the players in the game feel Cu's are too powerful, lets remove them as well because they make hunting too easy. Do you see where this leads to.

Anyone that finds something too easy shouldn't by any means be required to use it. Just don't force the rest of the game to play only as a few think they should!

That isn't UO that is Fascism, and that is a yoke I won't live under!

TW

 

[mjolnir131]

if you had read the post where i was talking about my drunken ex room mate who was a raest to be all racest you could take 80% of the things he said take the word jew out of it and subsitute twiker and it would be verbatium

but your right it is totaly silly and rediculois

 

[Guest]

I am for more stable slots for everyone. Who cares how many pets a person has. I do. I care enough to say let them have as many as they want.

I am against + to skill items of any kind. I believe people should have to work their skills up the way we did back in the good 'ole days when it was uphill both ways in the snow. It "builds character"... wait a minute. HOLY CRAP! That's what we're doing in UO we are building characters! What a coincedence. There's a lot to be learned from working a skill up from the depths of 0, especially where taming is concerned. You learn to fight with lesser critters which means you learn to keep your pets alive. You learn to care about your critter and help them hunt not use them as a meat sheild... I could go on but I digress....

Does this make me a hypocrit? Perhaps in your book it does TW, although I think it's a little twisted to accuse me of that for having this particular opinion. I am sure there's more than a boxful of people who'd agree with you on the ole "Flutter is a hypocrite" issue though, so no matter there.

Thing is, we are all free to have our opinions, and thanks to fansites and forums we are all free to discuss them. That doesn't mean that any one particular opinion is wrong. No matter how much we'd like them to be.

 

[moratha]

<blockquote><hr>


So why in heck does a newbie char need more than that as a start? Whenever kits come into discussions folks are "yeah, they're great pets," so what's the big problem with saying "ok, you can get this far with items, here's your kitsune and you train for the other pets" ? Let items work to boost to 85, then stop. Can one of the objecting tamers please explain why such a popular pet is so terrible all of a sudden? Why a tamer is rubbish unless they can instantly have any pet in the game?

My issue isn't with 1 item, or an advanced char. It's the stack effect of being able to max out all at once. There is zero motivation to train. It's not about it taking 6 months, I know some friends who never trained at all.

Or maybe it would be more palatable to say "no bonding without real skill at min taming skill." *shrugs*

Wenchy

[/ QUOTE ]

Simple, UO is not a game to EA. It's a business. In order to maintain good business, they need to give incentive to invite new players to the fold as vets tend to cancle their accounts for long periods of time.

Nobody cares about how you got your skills, I know for a fact EA doesn't care. I know the pvp side of UO doesn't care. I know the dexxers don't care how you got there. I know the Mages don't care. And most importantly, I know the other tamers on the shard don't give a damn about how you got your skills Wenchy.

All that matters when you log on, is if there is something to do that you "enjoy" doing. If a new player had to spend 6 months building skill up to "tame" a cu, I guarantee his account would be closed off in 2 months. Most players don't want to experience the "journey" they want the end result. And the end result is what individuals pay for. Damn EA for knowing exactly how to keep you paying every month. Damn them for knowing that nearly every vet has 2-3 accounts that they actively pay for. While every new player owns 1 account. When the vets go, they lose 2-3, gain 1.

I'd much rather see new players start with a 7x gm free. Or a free 120 skill/scroll with every new account. I guarantee the shards wouldn't be so dead if that were the case. And I guarantee you'd never know who is new and who is not. Some of those "vet accounts" you see have been sold to new players as it is. Thus the insanely crappy characters running around.

 

[Guest]

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You see Wenchy, with out skill items many of us can't play the templates we like. We have worked hard making these characters....we have earned the right to play them, just as you have earned the right to play yours.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh my, who abducted TW and left a pod in his place? Surely this cannot be the same TW who said Right here :-

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The game is filled with limits....everything is about choice.....

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and:-

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Is there no limit to what people want...you give them 30...they will want 60...give them 60 they want 120.

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[/ QUOTE ]Like, you give them 720 and they want 820...give'em 820 and they want 920 skill points?

and even:-

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<blockquote><hr>

You only get a max of 720 skill points.....14 stable slots....125 items in your bank box.
Maybe people should stop trying to change a system that works and is fair. There is enough in UO that doesn't work...stable slots do. You want more than 14 slots.....start another tamer....then you get 28....or another and get 42 slots.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]Hey, perhaps if you want more skills on your tamer than you yourself deem "fair," TW, maybe you could just start a separate bard char?

Because, after all, as you say:-

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There are choices in this game you have to make....

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[/ QUOTE ]I agree, TW, I agree and not just when it suits my own "want want want" (your words), my own chars, or my own particular playstyle.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You only get a max of 720 skill points

[/ QUOTE ]

But that is where I was wrong...or I typoed...cause the limit is 720 skill pts....the present limit in the game is as high as you can get.

I just found a ring tonight with 46 skill pts on it....and some resists.
It was a very very good night!

 

[Luvan]

ok i was going to not chime in on this topic until it turned into 5 pages...
now i would feel left out if i didnt add in my 2 cents.

So i am a little bit of both worlds here.
i played this game when it was in beta forever ago. i played the first 4 or so years, until sometime in the third age.
then quit due to time constraints. (and stuipdly gave my account to someone in my guild)
Now im back after a 5 + year hiatus.

If it werent for skill items and advanced character tokens i dont think i would have had the heart to start over again.

i have been back now 5 months. so my skill caps are 700.
But with jewels i am able to play the way i want to and not have to start from scratch. someone brought up the arguement on like page 2 that these skill items are allowing for new players who have no business using a cu or other high end pet to use them.
well i had a gm tamer before i left, i spent countless hours avoiding the evil sleep deamon so i could get there. it meant a lot to me.
Now im at about 90 from the 85 token i bought. without the skill items i dont think i would be a tamer. its simply far too slow to raise to an entertaining level. once you have been to the top, starting over just isnt as fun.

As for the ability to raise gains.
Take my necro/mage for example.
700 skill cap, but thanks to...
alchemists bauble +10 magery, midnight bracers+20 necro, tome of enlightenment +15 magery, mark of travesty +10 magery and eval, bloodwood spirit +5 magery +10 SS, a ring and braclet with +5 eval +10 magery +18 music +17 peace... i have over 100 extra skill points allowing me to maintain 7 skills of gm or better.

without those there would be no way i could maintain the skills i have.

again i see it from both worlds.
Have i played all this time i might be elitist and say that these items are ruining the game.
But without them... i know for sure i wouldnt be back.

 

[Guest]

You make it sound like Wenchy has different skill caps to the rest of the tamers... she doesn't. How many posts have I made telling young bards how I use items for skill? LOL

But I personally wish those items and powerscrolls and stupid arties never got in UO in the first place. If they were taken away I'd adapt. When you depend on skill items in a template that's the chance you take. Reason 1 why I advocate having the real taming skill high enough that any nerf doesn't nuke your pet control.

I said this already, I have issues with EA about putting in such items, allowing silly excesses on skill caps and giving out silly amounts of powerful items that later need nerfing.

If you use items and follow the rules then it's not my business what you do. I won't page on you unless you park unattended or exploit. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to think differently to you, particularly when I'm concerned about the way the taming profession is headed.

Though I'm still waiting to hear why 85 skill and kits is such a terribly low level for a tamer to achieve instantly or with items...

If you choose not to train taming then you're quite possibly with the majority these days. Few folk do, because there's no need for them to bother. Not even on the most casual level. If it's necessary for the jewellery fans to compare me to a racist or whatever the insult of choice is, I don't care.

UO is about choices, but don't be surprised if EA say "ok, skill boost from items is capped at 20" or some such. They did it with MR, so don't think you're immune from diminishing returns or skill caps. I think this last PvP balance illustrated very clearly that EA have the guts for controversial nerfs, so tamers need to make those choices carefully.

Wenchy

 

[Samaira]

<blockquote><hr>

I am against + to skill items of any kind. I believe people should have to work their skills up the way we did back in the good 'ole days when it was uphill both ways in the snow. It "builds character"... <blockquote><hr>



I'd happily agree and adapt to this... but only if every single skill took a similar amount of time to GM. That would mean either getting rid of -magery wands and golem training and spamming weaken onto yourself at the bank... or giving taming a shortcut.

Frankly, I don't care if someone tells me I'm useless taking so long to train taming, but by Christ I'm sick of it. When I can make a pure mage in a week or so by just sitting in my house pressing a key every few seconds, and my guildies can have a dexxer ready to spawn in even less time, then there is something seriously wrong in the game.

Can any of us, with all honestly, in all truthfullness, claim that taming is overpowered in PvE compared to a sammy dexxer? Or a necromage? I watch friends on both of these templates utterly decimate spawns faster than I could ever hope to. I've stood in the Weald and watched a dexxer drop Swoop in four hits - faster than my almost-fully-trained beetle and bake ever do.

I honestly don't believe that tamers (in general) are the l33t, overpowered, god-mode template they once were - and that many people seem to think they are.

There's little enough love and fun in lower-level taming as it is. Clearly I'm not enough of a powergamer to get my newest toon up fast enough to not get bored, frustrated and dissolusioned with taming. Please don't make it any harder or more boring and frustrating than it already is. Either leave bonuses in, or make it so a dexxer has to take two months of hard powergaming to GM swords. I'm not so naive as to believe the playing field will ever be level, but I'm sure as hell not keen on supporting a move that would fubar it even more.

/rant

 

[mjolnir131]

i think this depends on your point of veiw really when does the game start?

possable this is what this whole argument is really about!

does it start when you first log in?..... for new playes yes for older olayers possable not

does it start when all your skills hit the 50 level and your done with yoyur quests?

to most players it really does not start until your at or near gm all the stuff you do up til gm is just shuffleing the card for the game to start

 

[Samaira]

Very good point. For me, a tamer is "playable" at around 90 base. That way, with a little bump I can safely tame most creatures with a fair success chance, and begin training up my favourite pet types - bake, cu, runey etc. Also at this level you end up with enough stable slots to have a good wee selection of pets, with a pack thrown in for good measure.

But you're right - when I was training my first tamer, having lower taming wasn't so bad. But then I had GM in all magery skills back then, and was still learning a lot about the game - I didn't set foot in a peerless until well after my first cu was bonded and half trained, because I didn't know about them. I remember the day a friend gave me my first drake - I thought it was the bees knees.

But I'll leave this for another time, and stop derailing this thread :O

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I am against + to skill items of any kind. I believe people should have to work their skills up the way we did back in the good 'ole days when it was uphill both ways in the snow. It "builds character"... wait a minute. HOLY CRAP! That's what we're doing in UO we are building characters! What a coincedence.

[/ QUOTE ]QFT

If we were meant to be running around with 800+ in skills, we'd have been given a skill cap increase. I'd be delighted to see a return to 720 hard cap/ceiling for skills.

Yes, it would impact upon some of my chars, too. I'd be forced to be a little more selective about which skills I cram into a template. I don't actually view that as a bad thing.

Not everyone is comfortable with a level playing field, however. Players could then use skill items if they wished to do so, however, anything over the 700 or 720 vet cap is nullified or simply ignored.

<blockquote><hr>

There's a lot to be learned from working a skill up from the depths of 0, especially where taming is concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, there is. Items or itemless, advantage in both actively taming and in hunting is invariably with the experienced tamer who has completed the milestoned working-up process.

<blockquote><hr>

I am sure there's more than a boxful of people who'd agree with you on the ole "Flutter is a hypocrite" issue though, so no matter there.

[/ QUOTE ]Frank, forthright, and even fervent, sure, Flut, though I've not seen with my own eyes a hypocritical post from you. As well you know, that's not to say I always necessarily agree with you.

<blockquote><hr>

Thing is, we are all free to have our opinions, and thanks to fansites and forums we are all free to discuss them. That doesn't mean that any one particular opinion is wrong. No matter how much we'd like them to be.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed.

Perspective is a funny old thing, isn't it?

Some are clearly highly invested in their heavily item-reliant chars to the point of being fearful at the prospect of losing +skill items.

I find I am least invested in my heavily item-reliant chars. It's a matter of: No challenge + No goal = No interest. Were a hard skill cap of 720 to be implemented, I'd simply stone some skills and consider that I'd had a good run of almost unlimited skills with +skill items for awhile.

This actually reminds me much of the great run I had of seriously overpowered, never-fail provoke at GM Music/Provoke which was wisely addressed corrected despite the very similar breast-beatings, teeth-gnashings, &amp; hair-pullings generated by publish 16. Meh, we can hope, right?

 

[Guest]

For me it's a case of 'use or abuse'. I've no real quarrel with skill jewellery per se.

But when skill jewels + advance char + power scroll + bought, powerful pet = char that has never tamed anything, ever, and has no idea how to work in a team with a pet. That's when I become unhappy.

When someone with a runebeetle or similar powerful pet comes up to me and asks the kind of things you learn in the first week of training a tamer char, I can only groan and despair.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I am for more stable slots for everyone. Who cares how many pets a person has. I do. I care enough to say let them have as many as they want.

I am against + to skill items of any kind. I believe people should have to work their skills up the way we did back in the good 'ole days when it was uphill both ways in the snow. It "builds character"... wait a minute. HOLY CRAP! That's what we're doing in UO we are building characters! What a coincedence. There's a lot to be learned from working a skill up from the depths of 0, especially where taming is concerned. You learn to fight with lesser critters which means you learn to keep your pets alive. You learn to care about your critter and help them hunt not use them as a meat sheild... I could go on but I digress....

Does this make me a hypocrit? Perhaps in your book it does TW, although I think it's a little twisted to accuse me of that for having this particular opinion. I am sure there's more than a boxful of people who'd agree with you on the ole "Flutter is a hypocrite" issue though, so no matter there.

Thing is, we are all free to have our opinions, and thanks to fansites and forums we are all free to discuss them. That doesn't mean that any one particular opinion is wrong. No matter how much we'd like them to be.

[/ QUOTE ]


Morning/afternoon/evening Flutter...

Excuse me for sharing my thoughts on the subjects you have put forth above and my feelings on those and in how your seeing them also..and no Im not going to say anyone is wrong for seeing things differently....

To me, my view, opinion is, has been, will be is that UO was created with part of its core to be that a player needed to make choices, choices in the what the character was going to be, the skills they were to have and then making those choices work... making them work in any situation that the character may find themselves in.. learning the weaknesses and what the strong points were and traveling thru their live in Sosaria with them.

That is one of the key points in UO that to me made it great..

Being a tamer not only involves picking the skills (outside of the three tamer ones) but also picking the pets one is going to travel the lands in search of adventure. Picking ones that as a team (the tamer and pet/s) can take on what ever the Sosarian world throws at you. To me the tamer and the pet are a team, they depend on each other and the tamer is suppose to have a clue what they as a team can and can not take by the horns and live to tell about it.

The pet depends on the tamers experience in that arena and without the tamer having learned what pets can deal with what or how to handle a pet in any sorta of engagement. The best training, gaining of experience is by hands on, living thru it, seeing it first hand, winning some and losing some.

One can not gain experience just by slapping on items that boost the skil as there is no knowledge there for the higher level of life.. a adept tamer doesnt suddenly gain the experience of a master or grand master by just slipping on some jewls.. one doesnt instantly gain the working knowledge of a Dragon after just traveling the lands with lessor pets, one doesnt gain appreciation for the power that just slapping on items grants.

Stable slots.. a tamer has in todays Sosaria the ability to have up to 14 stalls to keep their pets in, thats if they wish to advance to the plateau of Legendary, if not they have 11 if they only wish to reach elder and elder is extremely cheap monetary wise as 110s are dirt cheap.

Eleven pets to me are more than enough friends to have in exploring our world, in righting wrongs and combating evil that exists. Its about choices the tamer needs to make, if the tamer wants to have a pack of pets then they need to understand and make good choices in filling the other six stable stalls.

I dont see the pets as just meat shields, I dont see them just as the means to riches, each of my pets has a personality.. yes its just computer AI but I have found over the years that the AI can be different in each pet, even in the same breed/species of pet.. more likely Im using the imagination too much but its how it is for me... I dont get nor buy this one needs a specific pet for a specific target, Ive said it over and over that I have and still do take my mares out and we dance with anything and everything, we win some and we lose some but thats what it is all about to ME..

I now find it hard to put into words what I feel about the subject... I suppose the fact that I as a player dont really care about wealth nor items.. I rarely loot the kills of my pets, I do rumage thru the corpses to see if there is anything I could give to anyone that I know.. On my ancient tamer I have just one mare that I cant recall ever being without... I have a dragon that is old yet no where near as old as the mare... I have a lovely Black Cu Sidhe that the wonderful LadyNico gave to me... I so dont like cu sidhes .. I shall admit that the Cu is taken out only when Im feeling lazy...and or on community hunts so I am free to help keep others and maybe their pets healthy during the hunt..yes yes I am proud of Led Zepplin... so neener neener...

So in a nutshell I have just three stable slots used , the other 11 never have the same pet in it for very long... Ive had the slots filled with nothing but mares before.. so love them, train them up and give them away.. have had the 11 filled with colored hiryus and given them away.. had a few runes (one currently and just gave another away), bake Kitsunes, fire steeds, WWs, other dragons and just this past week 2 cu sidhes that I survived taming and gave them away just last night.. balh

Im babbling like the old man I am... Its about choices, making them and learning how to use that choice... both in skills and in what pets one has...

I dont give a blue monkeys arse that a melee'er can have a kabillion weapons, I dont care what the other "professions" do or have or dont have...

I am proud to be a tamer.. I think highly of our profession and I think we as tamers follow a stronger sense of respect for each other, for others and for our pets and lastly for the world we wander in and call home... Sosaria..

I so get annoyed when I see a tamer that is a twink... that shows they have not come into the profession from the ground up.. that really has no clue what it means to be a tamer...that only care about pets is how quickly it can kill crap so they can get the loot...

This now appears to be a rant I suppose... I so hate this medium of communicating.. in person is my joy in talking, discussing, debating..

Flutter... not liking skill increase mods and yet thinking more stable slots is ok is on one hand a Conterdiction. For both remove the need to make choices.. both remove the need to make ones choice work.....again that is my view...

Use Best Weapon SKill is another aspect that has removed the need to make a choice, soul stones remove the need... oh just train up a skill stone it and put another that is uber for what Im going to do... no dealing with pro's and cons... just like having every bloody pet we can tame takes away the pro and con of being a tamer of pets....

Sorry for being long winded and for not making alot of sense and for any typos that I have not caught while I type this jibberish...

 

[Samaira]

<blockquote><hr>

For me it's a case of 'use or abuse'. I've no real quarrel with skill jewellery per se.

But when skill jewels + advance char + power scroll + bought, powerful pet = char that has never tamed anything, ever, and has no idea how to work in a team with a pet. That's when I become unhappy.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. Couldn't have worded it better myself, Petra. Problem is, unless one of the items in that equation is removed completely from the game, we'll never see an end to it. But I look at all four, and frankly, I can't see the game without them :/ Unless of course pets skills return to fresh-tamed at transfer... *grins*

 

[mjolnir131]

there is alot you say in there i agree with but and i'm all about you having to make choices and that is why alot of the present PvP nerfs piss me off becouse they are nearowing the choices and i think most of them came from complants by people not wanting to make choices they want to play the same templet they had in 1999 and expect it to work as well now, i particulary thnk those complaing about the sampires or wammy i find really silly becouse you can take those guys down with a simple item most people thow away when they are doing the heatwood quests

erregourdsless
when the reasons for there implimation was not about balance but the fact back then a gig of space cost 20 buck or more so somebody came out with a storage saving idea that worked well then,but today hd's are cheap dirt cheap less than a buck a gig they don't need to worry about the space anymore really i think non-tamers need to get there 5 back if i can have 5 pack horses i should be able to put them all in the stable

i know that was a long round robinhood barn path to get to that point i guess i need more coffee

 

[Guest]

Not at all a rant, Microelf, very heartfelt and succintly put!

 

[Blue Fin]

I know what you mean Petra, personally I loved training tamong up from the skill bought from the trainer in the stables. Mayb I'm a masochist, but doing all that training has stood me in good stead over the years...and I met a lot of friends at the same time.
I like to help people, and recentley bumped into a female tamer riding a unicorn that she had tamed. She was bored hunting orcs, and so I told her that if she could tame a uni, there were other creatures she could tame and use. She was amazed to learn of nightmares and such and was very happy to tame a dragon for the first time. When I enquired about her template she told me she had a weapon skill, becuase she needed swordsmanship to kill the orcs as she ran around riding her unicorn...she didn't know about "all kill" and that pets can fight for you.
The tamer in question is a lovely person, but there is the problem of advanced chars and skill jewels....

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


Simple, UO is not a game to EA. It's a business. In order to maintain good business, they need to give incentive to invite new players to the fold as vets tend to cancle their accounts for long periods of time.

Nobody cares about how you got your skills, I know for a fact EA doesn't care. I know the pvp side of UO doesn't care. I know the dexxers don't care how you got there. I know the Mages don't care. And most importantly, I know the other tamers on the shard don't give a damn about how you got your skills Wenchy.

All that matters when you log on, is if there is something to do that you "enjoy" doing. If a new player had to spend 6 months building skill up to "tame" a cu, I guarantee his account would be closed off in 2 months. Most players don't want to experience the "journey" they want the end result. And the end result is what individuals pay for. Damn EA for knowing exactly how to keep you paying every month. Damn them for knowing that nearly every vet has 2-3 accounts that they actively pay for. While every new player owns 1 account. When the vets go, they lose 2-3, gain 1.

I'd much rather see new players start with a 7x gm free. Or a free 120 skill/scroll with every new account. I guarantee the shards wouldn't be so dead if that were the case. And I guarantee you'd never know who is new and who is not. Some of those "vet accounts" you see have been sold to new players as it is. Thus the insanely crappy characters running around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes EA is a company/corporation and the point for such is to generate revenue in enough quantity to make a profit.. aka money left over after taxes, overhead ect...

Yet UO was not created just as a vehicle to generate income.. yes it is true they did wish to make money thru it but there was a vision in its creation, a dream if you will see it as such. The market that UO was created for, that was envisioned to be traveling in Sosaria was the player who grew up playing the old Ultima games, the fan of those worlds, who saw more than just get from here to there as fast as you can, that stopped and had their avatar stand in wonder at the world around them.

EA has never depended on UO as a main source of revenue, its a console publisher/developer company.. it makes its money on those and other properties that have nothing to do with gaming. They (EA) could have left the Ultima Online world true to its creation and made money on it while keeping it pure but they had to permit greed to take control, they wanted global marketing and not just what UO was designed for. So they took our art, that was done in chalk and started slapping water colors on it, then oils on it.. making it not what it was but what anyone and everyone would enjoy.. which has not worked.


UO could and should be like the micro brewers... UO should have been kept as it was instead of trying to compete on the global market, stayed with the market it was created for.

EA would have been better off designing a MASS appeal MMO from the ground up instead of butchering UO in their attempt to reach global..

Ok shutting up now...

Peace

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Not at all a rant, Microelf, very heartfelt and succintly put!

[/ QUOTE ]

Many thanks for the kind words.. I am a strange person in how I see Ultima Online...suppose it comes from the old rp days when one sat around a table and the imagination was ........ anyways. Thanks!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

But when skill jewels + advance char + power scroll + bought, powerful pet = char that has never tamed anything, ever, and has no idea how to work in a team with a pet. That's when I become unhappy.

[/ QUOTE ]

But why? Isn't that really their choice to play that way?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

To me the tamer and the pet are a team

[/ QUOTE ]

And I contend that the way UO is set up they really aren't, the pet is merely an enslaved being to a master thats more often than not a mass butcherer of its kind with false words and promises.

<blockquote><hr>

One can not gain experience just by slapping on items that boost the skil as there is no knowledge there for the higher level of life

[/ QUOTE ]

One doesn't really gain experience by just sitting around in a field spouting false words to unsuspecting animals. Experience comes from USE of pets, which really a jewelry enhanced character can gain as much as a regularly trained character can, the only difference is that a jewelry enchanced character would usually just go at it too fast.

<blockquote><hr>

I dont see the pets as just meat shields, I dont see them just as the means to riches, each of my pets has a personality

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly see very little of that personality left when taming often just becomes about "slaughtering the animals until the right stats/color spawns", screw personality.

<blockquote><hr>

I so get annoyed when I see a tamer that is a twink... that shows they have not come into the profession from the ground up.. that really has no clue what it means to be a tamer

[/ QUOTE ]

And I ask you how running around in fields spouting lies to unsuspecting animals gives you any idea how its like to be a tamer? Other than desensitize you to killing them over and over again while saying "Do you want to be my friend?"

And before you start calling me a non-tamer, My wife and I were one of the few GM tamers on Europa in the beginning (Later joined UTB), we've got pure tripple legendary tamers with no skill items, the only ones we use are for storage mules that have been manually trained up and then skill items to Elder.

 

[Guest]

Each to their own... I know it took me and my peers a good bit of fumbling around to get the hang of pet handling, but always some bright spark says "I know it all in a week." *shrugs* Whatever.

Not all tamers are out there treating pets as slaughtering machines either. I feel terrible if a pet of mine dies, because to me it's my fault for letting them die.

Funny enough, the ones I see with the worst attitude to their pets are the ones wearing the obligatory talisman of twinkness while riding a cu Easy come, easy go I guess. But as we've always had twinks, we've always had twinks who are such a blight to the taming profession that we pick up nerfs for their wrongdoings. I'd kinda like to think one day I won't be carrying the blame for some muppet with a hiryu

Wenchy