WAIT on Pub 74. BOD Bribery gold sink.

[allie_oops]

Out dev team did a great job with preparing a very expansive publish in a short amount of time. Initial bug testing does not show any serious flaws or holes. Much appreciation is due to the Devs and internal testing.

One thing that seems to be overlooked is one of the best things they've ever thought of: BOD Bribery.

The potential for a continual gold sink is great. These points need to be addressed in order for this to be as useful to UO as it can be - you only have one shot at doing this right :

- bribery costs must be raised significantly at the top end. Val Hammers need to remain valuable, but you have the opportunity to make them obtainable. "if bod reward= Val hammer , Cost Multiplier X ). if you can allow players to obtain Val hammers at an average of 10-15 mil per you're going to accomplish more with this publish than all of New Mag and it will be continual

I would love to here other opinions on this point, in sure we can improve
It.


- bribery costs need to continue to raise with use. As vendors get used for bribery allow the cost to continue to raise, like commodities. This alone is not a substitute for raising the cost of high end bods.

Set this system up so you can edit the numbers easy and you now have a dynamic, convenient, and continuous gold sink.


Something we've needed for years. Please hold off on publishing until we can all fully discuss these issues, there's only one shot to do this right.


Xxx
Allie

 

[Warpig Inc]

Have to remember that this pub was to have the Forge runic update also. If desired val runic forge mods take 5 charges. What mod would you put a 5 mil price tag on?

Knowing there is going to be a new drive for runics and to get the gold sink to work. ADD MORE DAMN REWARDS. Fluff the reward blocks with new rewards. Hell I still rather have a 50 charge PoF mixed in at the val hammer level. It is the PoF that keep vendors from being stocked in armor sales with a competitve under pricing. What new player feeling the grind of skilling wants to give up hunting. For new player the prospect of having to train block of crafters to gear up for higher hunts is daunting. Having to spend weeks mining and smith BOD flipping. Just so those uber mods are not backed with legend crater GM Lore 35 durability.

In end the bribery is just the stick. The past has taught us at the end will be a fresh carrot, 3 limp carrots, turd or weak string that drops the reward in the mud. Why they need someone with a strong voice that understands the UO history, UO world economics and UO gaming balance. The same person that I'd have operate on my brain I would not trust to make a wedding cake. The Code Mages do great work. They just have no clue about how to tweek the BOD rewards and realize the near and long time game effect.

The Bribery gold sink will only work if the new tool usage and availabilty are balanced to that end. A Rock Head Minion trapped in crystal (one slot living anvil). Think about it, why should only tailors be able to fill BODs in the field?

 

[popps]

- bribery costs must be raised significantly at the top end. Val Hammers need to remain valuable

I am sorry, but I cannot possibly agree with valorite hammers to be too expensive or exclusive to get.

Reasons ?

PvP balancing and competitiveness, mainly........

I will try to explain it better.

In PvP, as I see it, there is players who win fights, and players who loose fights..... That is, wherever there is a winner we cannot forget that there will also be a loser......

Now, this clarified, in my view for the better being of the game, it is important, necessary, I would even go as far as to say, vital, that those players winning the fights are not most always the same and those players loosing the fights are not most always the same.

Why ?

Because, as I see it, if, thanking to superior, exclusive (and expensive) gear the players who win fights are most always the same and those loosing the fights are most always the same ones, eventually those loosing fights one too often will get fed up and leave the game. I mean, who enjoys playing a game that gets one to loose way more often than one wins ?

But it is bad also for those winning the fights one too often since eventually they will loose interest in the game likewise because of the lack of challenge.

So, in the end, as I see it, a game that divides players in mostly players who win and mostly players who loose will eventually loose both sets of players or a good chunk of those players, for different reasons, but there will be a good chance that those players whether losers or winnders will migrate away from the game that is no longer entertaining to them.

So how to fis the problem and reduce the risk of players migrating to other games ?

I think, that always keeping the challenge up and making sure that wins and losses for each player are as close as to 50% chance for either one would be a good start. Sure, some players will always loose a bit more fights then they wlll win and some will win a bit more than they will loose but the goal for the game should be to try to make sure, by game dynamics, that players can get their fights' tally as close as possible to 50% wins and 50% losses (win 1 and loose 1, win 1 and loose 1 and so forth....).

And therefore we get to my opinion why, items making the difference in who wins and who looses like valorite hammers which bring in modifiers that help in winning fights, should not be too expensive or too exclusive to get.

They should not be hand outs, but neither too hard to get if we want PvP to be really challenging in Ultima Online and all players capable of winning and losing fights just alike........

I think it is important for the better being of the game because a challenging and healthy PvP means, at least to my opinion, more fun and thus more satisfied paying customers.

 

[yanaki2]

well last night i gathered up a bunch of plate agapite bods bribed the smiths to turn them all into valorite bods and got my first val hammer ever! it cost me 670k in bribes and 2k in val ingots to get! compare that before to the fact that i have collected over 10k bods and only had 2 pieces of the set over what has it been now 10 years since they added the system. it was nice but i have a feeling there not going to be selling for 20-25mil a pop nowadays

 

[allie_oops]

WarPig,

I'd say mods such as MR4 , 25 LRC , 10 Stamina Inc, 4 HPR, etc, it continues. On weapons Splintering, Hit Mana Drain, I'd say as 2 primary ones.


So you think 10-15m per Val Runic at the end is too expensive? I'm up for debate on that, what would you think they should be at? 5-8m? Surely not the 1mil or so that it seems this will work out to be..

These are the TOP end runic. these are the make or break of the best gear in this game, this is our end game as competitive top level players. If you make this too easy to obtain you're removing all ability to strive for ANYTHING in UO, and at the same time blowing your best shot since AOS to curb the inflation of gold and bring the game's economy back under control.



Popps,

This is why Imbuing is here. Imbuing was the balancer in terms of PvP. To take the last remaining high end desirable crafting tool and make it painless to obtain is devaluing the only reason to have a Smith these days, and will have no effect on who wins or loses in pvp.

This is indifferent to pvp balance, as the current situation needing to be addressed is market balancing. Regardless if the price is 5m, 10m, 15m per Val Hammer the result should be similar if we can find the optimum market price for a Val Hammer BOD.

The demand far exceeds the supply even currently. With this new system we have an opportunity to drain a lot of gold and allow the smiths that do the BODs to mark them up in the middle, and still end up with a highly desirable and useful item.

I've been here through every gold generating exploit, and can say safely aside from the rampant Wood and Ore farming operations currently residing in our game, we're at a VERY good spot in terms of potential market stability.


The chinese farmers are gone, completely, scripting pvm is at levels far lower than during Mondain's Legacy. Our only black eye left to have a perfect market is Wood/Ore scripting.

Why is this all important, and why do I keep nagging about the market in a 14 year old video game?

Because that is how we KEEP new players. Remember farming Earth Ellies in despise for the gold and gems? Lich Room? When Ilsh came out, all of the people at Serpentine Dragons, etc..

Collecting GOLD from monsters, trading items for gold, and trading items for items. This current market is twisted towards the longer term player, more so than ever before. The training gear, the weapons, the armor, the golems, etc, it's all inflated beyond ability for a new player to actually grow in UO. You either hit a wall and lose interest, get a lucky TOP level drop (orny/crimson/tangle) or you have to purchase gold.


Utilize this opportunity to help put the economy back on track.


Go 49ers!
Allie

 

[allie_oops]

well last night i gathered up a bunch of plate agapite bods bribed the smiths to turn them all into valorite bods and got my first val hammer ever! it cost me 670k in bribes and 2k in val ingots to get! compare that before to the fact that i have collected over 10k bods and only had 2 pieces of the set over what has it been now 10 years since they added the system. it was nice but i have a feeling there not going to be selling for 20-25mil a pop nowadays

Exactly. 670k (+2 ingots) for the BEST ITEM OBTAINABLE BY A SMITH.


I just think this was an oversight and that's the purpose of Test Center and Origin. We still have time to fix this. Hopefully we can achieve some good dialog with Mesanna or someone on the team interested in this area of the publish and the market in general.




More opinions to this would be greatly appreciated.

Best
Allie

 

[popps]

Popps,

This is why Imbuing is here. Imbuing was the balancer in terms of PvP. To take the last remaining high end desirable crafting tool and make it painless to obtain is devaluing the only reason to have a Smith these days, and will have no effect on who wins or loses in pvp.

This is indifferent to pvp balance, as the current situation needing to be addressed is market balancing. Regardless if the price is 5m, 10m, 15m per Val Hammer the result should be similar if we can find the optimum market price for a Val Hammer BOD.

If the Valorite Hammer with the other changes will not "add it" to imbuing, that is, will not make it possible to create more powerfull items than what imbuing can on its own, then I do not see the point for the changes.......

But, "if" the changes will indeed make it so that Valorite Hammers will make it possible to add to imbuing and, thanking to the use of Valorite hammers, make it possible to create more powerfull items which indeed make it more likely that one wins in PvP rather than looses, then I think that these Valorite Hammers should not, for the reasons explained, be exclusive, too expensive and basically restricted solely to a limited number of players.

They should not be hand outs either, but they should very reasonably be obtainable by all players because, as I see it, it is in the best interest of PvP in Ultima Online that as many players as possible can afford high end competitive gear and weaponry to make it up for a really, and fun to play, challenging PvP.

 

[Lady Storm]

Not to mention the more easer availability of the pofs... This will allow alot more players to make a more durable item.

 

[aarons6]

with the randomness of runics and the low charges 700k is too much....

you would need 100s of them to get anything superior to what you can imbue.
and thats if you get really lucky.

 

[Warpig Inc]

No I think 10-15 is cheep, way cheep. Read my whole post and turn off the selective reading. What part of adding to the reward list with fluff reducing the chance for runics eludes anyone.

Current reward system the agi BODs don't need bumping. Earned my first val hammer with a 20x gold plate large. If it only take 2k val ingots and less then a mil gold, players will get their fill fast. Everyone will have their uber gear in weeks.

Why the reward list for BODs need more items to make runics harder to get. Bribery gold sink will fail if the BOD reviving is played out in a few months.

 

[allie_oops]

No I think 10-15 is cheep, way cheep. Read my whole post and turn off the selective reading. What part of adding to the reward list with fluff reducing the chance for runics eludes anyone.

Current reward system the agi BODs don't need bumping. Earned my first val hammer with a 20x gold plate large. If it only take 2k val ingots and less then a mil gold, players will get their fill fast. Everyone will have their uber gear in weeks.

Why the reward list for BODs need more items to make runics harder to get. Bribery gold sink will fail if the BOD reviving is played out in a few months.

I reread your previous post and gotcha now

It's Monday morning, so hopefully we can start some dialogue before this is too late.

A high Charge POF, in response to Storm, and in agreeance with WarPig makes sense. Durability at it's heart isn't a make or break thing in this game. Handing out Val Runic Hammers for every 670K clearly is in the wrong direction.


Aron6,

Have you tried this on test center? I have, and out of 7 equivalent Val Hammers I made a full suit of that would stand fairly well with my current suit... which I imbued... and picked, every single mod...

7 Vals * 670k = 4.69m for a character to be competitive at the high end of pvp, and unstoppable in pvm.

Let's say it took another 7 vals to make it absolutely perfect, we're at 9.38m for a character to have no room for vertical expansion. Sure he can change his template, and then tweak the suit. But a mage suit, is a mage suit 1000 times. A sampire suit; a thrower suit.

Having Val Hammers at this current state removes the most important thing to continued subscribers: the end game. "But UO is a sandbox, no end game = WIN!" That is true, but to the most competitive players out there, pvp or pvm, some of us have been playing before trammel, and many along the way since.

The only thing that we have left to do is strive for improvement in our characters suits and build.

This is why you'll see people spending 100s of million of gold for a perfect valorite runic weapon. That is a serious accomplishment, not only to make it, but to attain it. You're removing the last (probable) thrill in UO for the majority of your most important players, the competitive players with multiple accounts.

Not to say anyone is actually more important than anyone else mind you, but strictly in revenue per heartbeat.



At it's inception I beleive our Dev Team thought of BOD Bribery as a gold sink opportunity. With runic reforging, and wrong, etc... this is a very jam-packed publish... I just assume this got pushed aside a bit, so draw attention to this issue today, if you see any Dev in-game or in another thread, please let them know to come here. Our window of opportunity is very small.


A fine morn!
Allie

 

[Warpig Inc]

Powder now is just under 150k. Sure bribing will bring that down. Still suit building is around a few arty. Even at 100k a jar a starter suit will need 1 mil worth of powder just counting the pieces that don't break with enhancing. May look at it as lesser sales for enhancing tool sales if POF becomes easier to get. Then there is the lower need to hunt for imbue ingredients +/-.

Just hope they take this opportunity to watch Heartwood. Be good time to snatch up by the short hairs those dedicated 24/7 fletcher/carp runic grinders.

 

[allie_oops]

1:30 PM EST ! Someone at EA has had to have a lunch break

When it's convenient for you (The Dev Team), can we get your thoughts on our concerns and ideas?

It'd be really appreciated,

Allie

 

[allie_oops]

better luck today I hope. We need a Dev to see this and discuss this! We're not all angry about 10k people trying to place houses at the same time and complaining about their tools not working! Come down and chat on an actual serious issue!

 

[Theo_GL]

It is too late. Orgin has already had this publish for like a week now. They already have tons of POF bods and val hammers floating around. IF you make a change now and dont' revert the shard - you can simply xfer from Origin all these high end bods to prodo shard.

Alas - I think this change is here to stay.

My prediction on pricing:

Val Hammer - 1.5 mil each
Verite Hammer - 900k each
POF - 25k per jar

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Val Hammer - 1.5 mil each

Well shoot, why not? Barbed runic kits have been 1 mil since imbuing came out.

I mean I'm not jumping up and down about it. I would have liked to have sold at least a few Val hammer for 15-20 mil each but whatever.

I guess now I'll actually use a lot of them instead of selling most like I always did with Barbed runics before. I have over 50 of them sitting because I quit selling them when they dropped below 3 mil each.

I suppose it's better than [highlight]never[/highlight] having one at all.

 

[Mirt]

Well shoot, why not? Barbed runic kits have been 1 mil since imbuing came out.

I mean I'm not jumping up and down about it. I would have liked to have sold at least a few Val hammer for 15-20 mil each but whatever.

I guess now I'll actually use a lot of them instead of selling most like I always did with Barbed runics before. I have over 50 of them sitting because I quit selling them when they dropped below 3 mil each.

I suppose it's better than [highlight]never[/highlight] having one at all.

I completely agree with you on this. For the most part those that actually got them are not really losing anything and the ones buying them well... sorry but speculation is always dangerous. More so in UO then in the regular market. It will be nice to have a chance to get some of them and use them for making weapons and using it with the new system once that gets released. I also like the idea of POF coming down as that is a big hurdle towards getting new or returning players a full suit.

 

[MYUO]

It is not too late. Although the val hammers may have been mass produced on Origin, it is better than mass produced everywhere.
The reason? Fairness to long time smiths who have spent substantial game time doing BODs. After the change, the cost to get THE TOP reward in the 10 year old BOD system drops so low it basically wipes out all the hard work of many smiths.
Make the bribery cost for higher level BODs substantially higher or limit the number of times a BOD can be upgraded. I am all for making useful items avialable to everyone. But does everyone have to have a cheap val hammer in order to "compete"?

 

[Mirt]

If long time smiths haven't used the hammers or sold them by now then they are hoping that the cost stays up by hording them. I know it stinks to see money disappear but its use it or lose it in life as well as UO. If thats what they enjoy the game time should be fun if its not fun they should have been doing something else.

 

[allie_oops]

It is not too late. Although the val hammers may have been mass produced on Origin, it is better than mass produced everywhere.
The reason? Fairness to long time smiths who have spent substantial game time doing BODs. After the change, the cost to get THE TOP reward in the 10 year old BOD system drops so low it basically wipes out all the hard work of many smiths.
Make the bribery cost for higher level BODs substantially higher or limit the number of times a BOD can be upgraded. I am all for making useful items avialable to everyone. But does everyone have to have a cheap val hammer in order to "compete"?

Exactly.


It's not too late at all, Val Hammers go quickly, there is no quantity that Origin could produce that would last long enough to really hurt the health of the item in the long term.



There's a big difference from enjoying UO and potentially
a) missing an amazing chance at a substantial, continuous gold sink
b) completely negating the accomplishment of the highest end item for a whole character type
c) ruining the end-game for the most competitive players



Val Hammers are not barbed kits. Their system and percentages were based on them being rare and valuable. I understand you want to promote Runic Reforging, but this needs balancing before we end up with a huge mess.

 

[MYUO]

This change not only affects the value of the existing runic hammers, more importantly, it also trashes the player's BOD collection which has been accumulated and taken cared of over last 10 years.
Another solution would be make the bribery amount go up each time it is paid, like commodity price system; and go down when bribery is paid less frequently, like the community donation system. That is a good way to find a more reasonable "market price".

 

[Jhym]

Fairness to long-time smiths? Huh?
I've been smithing since 98, I LOVE the ability to actually finally get a valorite hammer. The best I've ever gotten from my own work on bods is a +30 hammer (that was supposed to be an agapite but the rng decided I couldn't have one.)

If you're talking fairness to long-time hoarders, sure. But for smiths who actually want to USE the tools they get from the lottery, I think this system makes it FAR more fair.

 

[Jhym]

You are too fixated on "gold-sinks" and ignoring the fact that this means newer, casual players will have the ability to get excellent tools in a reasonable time.

I have probably a thousand or so bods that I've been gathering, not because I"m so into it, but because I was hoping to eventually get a good enough collection that I could try to get something close to a verite hammer. I'm not rich, I barely have 5 million between all my characters. If the pricing goes up too much then I'll be in the exact same situation I am now, where I can't afford to trade or buy the bods I'd need to EVER get a good hammer (the people who have the high-end bods do NOT trade down or demand ridiculous amounts of gold for them, considering THEY won't get the rest of the bods for the set either.)

I think this is a good attempt at making the system accessible to EVERYONE in the game, not just the hoiti-toiti-elite. "Gold-sink" talk is just a waste of time for everyone; those sort of systems never work in the way people think they will. Most of those with huge amounts of money are not going to throw it into junk (changing hair color, for instance) and those that are professional merchants will just charge their customers for the amount they spend to get something.

This is a post to keep the pricing of high-end hammers out of reach of the casual smither, and nothing more.

 

[MYUO]

Fairness to long-time smiths? Huh?
I've been smithing since 98, I LOVE the ability to actually finally get a valorite hammer. The best I've ever gotten from my own work on bods is a +30 hammer (that was supposed to be an agapite but the rng decided I couldn't have one.)

If you're talking fairness to long-time hoarders, sure. But for smiths who actually want to USE the tools they get from the lottery, I think this system makes it FAR more fair.

LOVE the ability to actually finally get a valorite hammer? By instantly "upgrading" from tens (if not hundreads) of thousands of common bods on each shard? How about crafting Crimson Cincture with a sewing kit, or Crystaline Ring with a tinker tool? Will this change really give players feeling of accomplishment or just instant gratification?


I have been collecting BODs 3 times a day since the system started 10 years ago and only got 1 valorite hammer after multiple tradings and another 1 after the change that made val hammer more common. Val hammer is one of the few challenges left for crafter in the game.

 

[MYUO]

This is a post to keep the pricing of high-end hammers out of reach of the casual smither, and nothing more.

Assuming at the same game skill and knowledge, I think it is fair to expect that a casual player can not achieve as much as a "powergamer" toward a good challenge in game.
Val hammer has 85-100% intensity, verite has 70-100%, agapite has 65-100%. So verite and agapite hammers are not good enough for casual smith?

 

[allie_oops]

You are too fixated on "gold-sinks" and ignoring the fact that this means newer, casual players will have the ability to get excellent tools in a reasonable time.

I have probably a thousand or so bods that I've been gathering, not because I"m so into it, but because I was hoping to eventually get a good enough collection that I could try to get something close to a verite hammer. I'm not rich, I barely have 5 million between all my characters. If the pricing goes up too much then I'll be in the exact same situation I am now, where I can't afford to trade or buy the bods I'd need to EVER get a good hammer (the people who have the high-end bods do NOT trade down or demand ridiculous amounts of gold for them, considering THEY won't get the rest of the bods for the set either.)

I think this is a good attempt at making the system accessible to EVERYONE in the game, not just the hoiti-toiti-elite. "Gold-sink" talk is just a waste of time for everyone; those sort of systems never work in the way people think they will. Most of those with huge amounts of money are not going to throw it into junk (changing hair color, for instance) and those that are professional merchants will just charge their customers for the amount they spend to get something.

This is a post to keep the pricing of high-end hammers out of reach of the casual smither, and nothing more.

To say "Gold Sinks" don't work is just clearly not thinking the whole point of this thread through. To say that by raising the cost of Bribery specifically on the HIGHEST end of bods is going to make Val Hammers unobtainable for the masses also feels like you haven't actually read the posts in this thread.

This gold sink is in and of itself the best chance for everyone in the game to contribute to fixing the economy, while getting something from it. But to give the BEST item , the most powerful crafting tool away to every casual player who has 1 hour of time to spend is ludicrous.

You may be of the "something for nothing" variant of players, and that's fine, but a large majority of UO players do appreciate achieving something. Actually, come to think of it that's the whole attraction of the "game on rails" variant of MMOs , like WoW. You achieve something, you smile, you continue paying, you achieve something, you smile, rinse repeat.

To give out Val Hammers this easy is an oversight, that's consequences are clearly outlined above.

Best,
Allie

 

[Obsidian]

My prediction on pricing:

Val Hammer - 1.5 mil each
Verite Hammer - 900k each
POF - 25k per jar

There is nothing wrong with this. The time and value of the current high-end runics is too high. This brings runics into the mainstream so more crafters can have access to them. I will be very glad when POF gets back to a reasonable cost. In fact, this will make it far easier to get DC hammers which many of us use for base items to imbue further. This, as it currently is on Origin, is a complete win in my book.

The only problem I had had with the concept of Runic Re-Forging is that one's Crafter Skill (blacksmithing, tailoring, carpentry, etc) and Imbuing Skill needs to be considered in the success chance.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[allie_oops]

POF I agree with, but Valorite Runic's are a top end tool with an intensity that's at the absolute TOP of the game.


1.5 mil?


It's just madness, I can see potentially why our game spirals sometimes, and I'm happy to constructively try to help the developers see what the logical people of the game need.

We don't need a free meal. We don't need free bells and whistles, allow the game to have some value, and for players to still acheive something.

Let's all take responsibility and PUSH for a higher bribery cost, and help fix this broken economic situation.

You think flooding the game with valorite runics is going to do anything but make another mess and glut another area of the game? You're unfortunately wrong.


I wish we could have an OLD IRC style char with Devs. What's the requirement to be on the Q and A team or whoever actually makes these decisions? I'll buy my seat today if it helps steer the game with thought out long term decisions, over short sited ones. It can't even be blamed on the Devs, it has to be blamed on the people of this message board community :/

You have to draw attention to flaws even if they would cost you more gold, or make things a little harder on yourself. Unfortunately the gimme gimme's of 2012 don't know the first thing about that.


Two days, not one Dev could take the time and discuss something that's going to effect the economy so drastically? Maybe better luck tomorrow.


Allie

 

[Phoenix_Mythic]

With each bribe an NPC accepts, it increases a cost multiplier applied to future bribes. So, after being bribed 100 times, he will charge 100 times as much as the base price. Each NPC tracks its own bribe multiplier, so there is benefit to shopping around. Each NPC is initialized with a random cost multiplier between 0 and 10. (If you catch an NPC with a very low cost multiplier, he could do an upgrade for you for free!).

The cost multiplier decays extremely slowly. If an NPC is not bribed at all in an entire month, its bribe cost multiplier will only decay by about half.

Over time, the NPC bribe prices should rise up to whatever the market will bear.

 

[R Traveler]

there is benefit to shopping around

I tried Ter Mur NPCs, they know nothing about BODs

 

[allie_oops]

With each bribe an NPC accepts, it increases a cost multiplier applied to future bribes. So, after being bribed 100 times, he will charge 100 times as much as the base price. Each NPC tracks its own bribe multiplier, so there is benefit to shopping around. Each NPC is initialized with a random cost multiplier between 0 and 10. (If you catch an NPC with a very low cost multiplier, he could do an upgrade for you for free!).

The cost multiplier decays extremely slowly. If an NPC is not bribed at all in an entire month, its bribe cost multiplier will only decay by about half.

Over time, the NPC bribe prices should rise up to whatever the market will bear.

Thanks Pheonix for opening the lines of communication, I know a great many of us genuinely appreciate it.


So in terms of a gold sink, this has the potential of becoming more useful with more activity. That's great to know. I'll test this out on test center and we can see what the max cost can be per Smith bod, I'll report back. You probably know the numbers, but it'll be good information regardless.


Looking forward to continued dialogue!
Allie

 

[Gorbs]

With each bribe an NPC accepts, it increases a cost multiplier applied to future bribes. So, after being bribed 100 times, he will charge 100 times as much as the base price. Each NPC tracks its own bribe multiplier, so there is benefit to shopping around. Each NPC is initialized with a random cost multiplier between 0 and 10. (If you catch an NPC with a very low cost multiplier, he could do an upgrade for you for free!).

The cost multiplier decays extremely slowly. If an NPC is not bribed at all in an entire month, its bribe cost multiplier will only decay by about half.

Over time, the NPC bribe prices should rise up to whatever the market will bear.

Shouldn't the bribe multipliers factor in the player/account requesting the bribe? Is the intent of the system to leach gold from the scripters, or to allow BOD rewards to be accessible to all players (reforging)?

 

[Phoenix_Mythic]

I'll test this out on test center and we can see what the max cost can be per Smith bod, I'll report back.

There is no hard cap.

The nature of the "guild heat" also makes it difficult to drive one NPC's greed factor up too fast, because they have to take a 2 to 3 hour timeout after taking a few bribes in a short timeframe.

Keep in mind that the cost multiplier goes up when any bribe is accepted, while the base value for the bribe is based on the current material, quantity, quality, and large-ness of the deed. Large deeds with higher level materials have larger base prices, while small deeds with lower level materials have lower base prices.

So, if an NPC takes a bunch of small bribes for upgrading small iron BoDs, his price on the large verite ones goes up very rapidly.

 

[Storm]

the decay rate here has me worried! I can tell you exactly whats going to happen with this. Certain power gamer types, are going to run out first thing and buy every npc up to max leaving the casual player and even the average player to pay the max! meaning the rich power player is going to reap the reward and get richer from the high end bods and then the poorer or lower class player is going to pay the high end from the start!

a month to decay half you say? that is so far way out there you need to real it in about 500% mark my words this is one of those things that cant be tested on tc in less than a few months and is very bad for casual players!

 

[MYUO]

Thanks Phoenix for the info. I am glad there is a mechanism of control in place. Given the large number of NPCs in tram and fel, it will be interesting to see how the cost changes over time. I am sure dev will adjust the muliplier accrodingly if they are way off.
Question: Does the multiplier reset when certain publish hit, like the commodity prices? I am referring to those publishes that affect NPCs.

 

[Pfloyd]

IF npc's can be bribed they shouldn't be invulberable yellow ;o)

 

[allie_oops]

the decay rate here has me worried! I can tell you exactly whats going to happen with this. Certain power gamer types, are going to run out first thing and buy every npc up to max leaving the casual player and even the average player to pay the max! meaning the rich power player is going to reap the reward and get richer from the high end bods and then the poorer or lower class player is going to pay the high end from the start!

a month to decay half you say? that is so far way out there you need to real it in about 500% mark my words this is one of those things that cant be tested on tc in less than a few months and is very bad for casual players!

MYUO's post quells your concern fairly well; there are so many NPCs in tram/fel that it'd be impossible. And to genuinely get to the cost that these should be at would take an extreme amount of effort.

Also, the issue here is not to just drain gold from scripters, it's to drain caused BY scripters. The casual player should not just walk out and get the best item in the game. I'm sorry, you need to have the ability to achieve, it's the one pyschological force that puts more money in MMO developer pockets than anything else.


Verite Hammers , albeit powerful are more in line to what should not require life and death to achieve. They're about 65-75% intensity (I think that was right?), and can still produce fantastic gear, while leaving the highest most desirable crafting item in the game still a target worth working for.


Valorite Hammer's should cost 5-8m , in my opinion, for the Smith to complete in full. He then can turn around and sell that Hammer for a 50% markup easily. Making 2.5-4m profit for a final retail price of 7.5-12m.

This is around 30% cheaper than currently, and with the increased supply would allow more people to utilize them.


Thoughts?
Allie

 

[goldenpower]

There is no hard cap.

The nature of the "guild heat" also makes it difficult to drive one NPC's greed factor up too fast, because they have to take a 2 to 3 hour timeout after taking a few bribes in a short timeframe.

Keep in mind that the cost multiplier goes up when any bribe is accepted, while the base value for the bribe is based on the current material, quantity, quality, and large-ness of the deed. Large deeds with higher level materials have larger base prices, while small deeds with lower level materials have lower base prices.

So, if an NPC takes a bunch of small bribes for upgrading small iron BoDs, his price on the large verite ones goes up very rapidly.

how will it work with vendors that re-spawn in ilshenar? will they respawn each time between 0 and 10 multiplier?

 

[goldenpower]

I have over 50 of them sitting because I quit selling them when they dropped below 3 mil each.

50 barbed kits = 750 charges for runic re-forging. you will be able to make some awesome armor.

 

[Storm]

Just wanted to get my opinion out there and warn you! I know this is whats going to happen! I reserve the right to say I told you so!

 

[allie_oops]

Just wanted to get my opinion out there and warn you! I know this is whats going to happen! I reserve the right to say I told you so!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I'm happy you gave yours. Though I don't agree, and feel I posted strong enough reasoning for why I disagree

Either way we're fighting for progression

Allie

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

It sounds to me, after reading the posts by Phoenix, that the BOD Bribery system is pretty well thought out.

Probably initially, the cost to upgrade a BOD will be lower but once it's been active for a while and everyone has been around the shard to all the different NPCs then the cost will begin to increase.

The decay rate for the cost multiplier sounds about right but could be tweaked if it's too slow or too fast. We'll have to wait and see. There's not enough going on on TC to stress test the system properly.

If after two or three weeks or a month or two the cost for a valorite runic settles down around 3-5 mil, that wouldn't be too bad especially considering resale markup. That's a lot more than what it costs to buy a barbed kit nowadays.

Keep in mind we do WANT valorite runics to be accessible. We want to use them. They've been far to inaccessible for far too long. With runic-reforging and it using multiple charges it seems to be a good start as far as balancing the possibilities of the number or runics that may become available.

 

[lucitus]

There is no hard cap.

The nature of the "guild heat" also makes it difficult to drive one NPC's greed factor up too fast, because they have to take a 2 to 3 hour timeout after taking a few bribes in a short timeframe.

Keep in mind that the cost multiplier goes up when any bribe is accepted, while the base value for the bribe is based on the current material, quantity, quality, and large-ness of the deed. Large deeds with higher level materials have larger base prices, while small deeds with lower level materials have lower base prices.

So, if an NPC takes a bunch of small bribes for upgrading small iron BoDs, his price on the large verite ones goes up very rapidly.

So that means to make my existing bods very expensive i now login bribe all my thousands of iron bods to make good bods as expensive as possible this sounds logic and to kill the system at all.

 

[Obsidian]

This doesn't sound like the bribes will decay fast enough. What will happen is Atlantic will be astronomical for all smith npcs shardwide. Power gamers will farm high end runics on lower populated shards and import them to Atlantic with transfer tokens. This would further break the economy. There is no gold sink... Instead you have gold transfer from the poorer to the already super rich.

Why can't the bribe increase slowly and decrease quickly so the average user can enjoy this system? Don't make it increase so fast no one can use it after a month.

 

[Storm]

one thing I have learned in playing UO all these years and it is a fact!
UO players can and will take advantage of any loop hole or design flaw they can!
And I am telling you now this is going to work the opposite you think it will!
I applaud the effort and I think its almost thereI But it is gonna need some serious adjustments

 

[Phoenix_Mythic]

Also, as was recently posted elsewhere, we have managed to fix the issues that forced us to deactivate Runic Re-Forging before publishing to Origin. Re-Forging now appears to be set to go live with Pub 74, and that will radically improve the usefulness of all levels of all runics.

The addition of Runic Re-Forging and the addition of BOD Bribery are intended to work together, both to increase the usefulness and the availability of runic hammers and sewing kits of all types.

I think the prices for those is anybody's guess right now. If I had to wager, I'd say the going rate for runic sewing kits is gonna go up and the going rate for high-end runic hammers is gonna drop.

 

[Storm]

for sure the sewing kits are going up I have seen what they can do ...the higher end hammers will go down a amount to be seen yet!

I am worried about the fletching/carpentry runics though we have not a vary good source for those atm maybe we could get a adjustment on getting them?

 

[T-Hunt]

I hear were Storm is going with this..
I have seen people going around makuing rune books for all the npc smiths they can..

Now as for xsharding bods to smaller shards and back. why not just have it that no BODS can be transfered..

Theres less of a worry..and dont let someone say..what if i want to move to a diferent shard..to play since my shard is dead..
Trust me i dont think you would have taken all the BODS with you. if you did such a move..

And true whats up with no bribing in Ter Mur?

 

[allie_oops]

This doesn't sound like the bribes will decay fast enough. What will happen is Atlantic will be astronomical for all smith npcs shardwide. Power gamers will farm high end runics on lower populated shards and import them to Atlantic with transfer tokens. This would further break the economy. There is no gold sink... Instead you have gold transfer from the poorer to the already super rich.

Why can't the bribe increase slowly and decrease quickly so the average user can enjoy this system? Don't make it increase so fast no one can use it after a month.

None of that gold is "new", players marking items up and selling items to other players means nothing to the health and stability of the game (in the short term - obviously if Joe continues to collect 600m a week in profitable markup he can devalue currency to a small effect).

The issue being addressed via Bribery is actually removing gold from the game. As it stands the guys running the Wood farming operations are turning their resource into a craftable item (haven't had the time to figure out what yet) and are continually creating new gold. Rather than sell their resources via player market, they're taking the easy way out and are unfortunately really hurting our economy.

I'll be able to spend more time on these crafting systems in the next few weeks to see what's actually being done and to what daily output, but suffice it to say, that this is the reason for a dynamic Gold Sink like Bribery.


This system seems to be well thought out, and only further improvement can come with us testing the limits of it, and seeing how it performs in the 'real world'. At that time hopefully we can send our data to Pheonix and maybe some things can be tweaked.

Nothing is perfect out of the box, at least our Dev Team is working to make quality publishes a regular occurrence.

:gun:
Allie

 

[Shelleybean]

the decay rate here has me worried! I can tell you exactly whats going to happen with this. Certain power gamer types, are going to run out first thing and buy every npc up to max leaving the casual player and even the average player to pay the max! meaning the rich power player is going to reap the reward and get richer from the high end bods and then the poorer or lower class player is going to pay the high end from the start!

a month to decay half you say? that is so far way out there you need to real it in about 500% mark my words this is one of those things that cant be tested on tc in less than a few months and is very bad for casual players!

I think Storm has it right. I just hope the developers are willing to take another look at this when the complaints start rolling in after the publish.