UO's Future - Why can't we find anything out?

[Viper09]

I think it is quite telling that this thread is ignored by the devs, yet they post pictures of the 15th anniversary harpsichord deed they are giving us. Maintenance mode.

Maybe its because any reply that would be good enough for anyone here would have to take some time and thought, not some quick post. I would expect a reply in the form of a producers letter, something that wouldn't be specific to stratics only like a post in this thread would be. A reply to a topic such as this belongs to the entire community, not a small portion such as stratics.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Your asking for your surprise party to be written out so you know all the details...... not much of a surprise.

Never fails, whenever my wife and I try to surprise each other with gifts, we always end up buying it a few days before for our self, no surprise, wasted time and effort, epic Fail. Being creative, 'fishing', hints, etc, has been much more gratifying for all. Same would be for a party, even with no gifts, but w/o access to scheduling data, becomes another fail. We communicate, we share, we're happy. We can 'transmit' information w/o all the details.
Like the Three Bears story, this bed's too big/small, "This one is just right." Nobody is asking for all the details, like a bed "too big", but we're not even getting in the house.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I wonder if the "Like" button is disabled for people w/ EA in their name? If that was used a little, fast, easy, not really quotable, but communication none the less.

 

[Lady Storm]

I think Mesanna has gotten the hints guys..... You cant hold in the suspense and need a fix of awww and amazement. Well, I do remember my hubby or I trying to sneek to give the other a gift....... its damn hard to do! You both know eachother so well that when one is sneeky it shows big time. Not to mention holding in the giggles and will power to not give it to them way before its due.........

 

[Woodsman]

I think Mesanna has gotten the hints guys..... You cant hold in the suspense and need a fix of awww and amazement.

I know they'll have gotten the hint when they actually talk about future things. And harpsichords for the 15th anniversary is not the future of UO. Unless the future is just handing out new items every holiday and anniversary.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Maybe we should start asking on Twitter, more public. The more that notice, the more that will wonder, and the more will ask "What's up with that?

 

[babykittens]

UO is not going to go anywhere but down until it's updated to 3d graphics.

This is the single most important thing which needs to be done, but which is avoided year after year. Without 3d graphics the game is simply outdated and non competitive. No amount of content, tweaking, or events will overcome this handicap.

 

[Lady Storm]

UO is not going to go anywhere but down until it's updated to 3d graphics.

This is the single most important thing which needs to be done, but which is avoided year after year. Without 3d graphics the game is simply outdated and non competitive. No amount of content, tweaking, or events will overcome this handicap.

Well............................... if you happen to look on Yahoo news you will see something that puts the kapesch to any NEW GRAPHICS for us. EA's darling Madden 13 for xbox and another system has arived and I would bet my bottom gold coin that if it came up more Madden football or UO ... Madden would get the money for anything the developers of it could ask for. EA will not authorize any spending for UO outside what we get as it is.... I for one will not comment on what kind of budget Mythic has for game development or if BioWare has a few loose coins it can spare for UO ether. I hate to sound like a bad mom on this one but "No New Graphics for you kiddo" just be happy they are doing something with them as it is... If you didnt notice we are not the most populace game they have..... I wish we could fix it on our own....

 

[Cetric]

UO is not going to go anywhere but down until it's updated to 3d graphics.

This is the single most important thing which needs to be done, but which is avoided year after year. Without 3d graphics the game is simply outdated and non competitive. No amount of content, tweaking, or events will overcome this handicap.

Starts the *UO2 chant*

Rebuilding uo on a new platform, with everything the teams have learned from day 1, and incorporating it into a similar open free world would be the best anyone that used to or currently plays could hope for. No "borrowing from other games" and stuff like that, make a new 3d perspective based game, with everything uo is or should be in regards to skill, pvp, you name it. so much could be gained from that, but for whatever reason no one wants to touch it.

 

[Cetric]

..... I wish we could fix it on our own....

seeing what users put together on the forums years ago, with the hi res small images was pretty fantastic.

 

[Picus at the office]

A whole new client should be sold as a whole new game. Keep the stuff that made UO great but start new if the intention is to breath life via a client. Neither is going to happen though.

 

[Woodsman]

I for one will not comment on what kind of budget Mythic has for game development or if BioWare has a few loose coins it can spare for UO ether. I hate to sound like a bad mom on this one but "No New Graphics for you kiddo" just be happy they are doing something with them as it is... If you didnt notice we are not the most populace game they have..... I wish we could fix it on our own....

Grimm posted this last week

Hey there, and again, glad you're back! Yea, we've made a lot of headway on the high res artwork, but we've got a ways to go. Converting pure 2D artwork into 3D is very tricky, and we still have some technical issues to resolve. Not to mention a ton of artistic ones.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think it's safe to say that as soon as we get to a place where we feel comfortable showing something, you'll start seeing things show up in the Herald!

 

[Sevin0oo0]

A whole new client should be sold as a whole new game.

seems unfair to those of us that stuck around, using the old stuff, helping them work out bugs. Funny how the "player-defined" settings became Default for several functions.

 

[Viper09]

seems unfair to those of us that stuck around, using the old stuff, helping them work out bugs. Funny how the "player-defined" settings became Default for several functions.

I think this depends on how "new" of a client we're talking about though as well as how much money and work will be involved in making it. Unfair or not it just comes down to how much sense it would make to develop it into a new game or keep it with this one. But as long as the CC is still around I would think that they should just make it into a new game, having two completley different clients for one game just leaves too much work and leaves the door open to many problems.

 

[Picus at the office]

I don't dispute the notion that the "old school" players would be hurt by a move like this but really a true new client has to be a fresh start. Do like every other MMORPG did and learn what UO has to offer and take from what other games did correctly. Don't make it some lame nerd hole like Star Wars where everyone wants to be a "jedi" or what ever wet dream he/she is having(granted UO is similar but when it came out is was the only option most of us couldn't care a less about D&D etc). It has to be a true sandbox again with near endless options but a solid true PVP aspect(and IMO true risk) has to be part of the mix. Make it clean, straight forward and easy to get into like UO was 10 years ago. Learn from the lack of gold sink, have true crafter stores, housing and freedom. I'd sign up for that again but anything else will never get my dollar.

 

[Lady Storm]

Only thing is if you tried to go back to old school ways now...... The game over sign would start blinking....
You see dear one that many here would say the same thing you are but in reality if it happened would run away after a fast scream of not fair....

You say you want old ways but have you really looked at what that would mean?
Getting rid of insurance, Making everything you have a thiefs wet dream...... PvP would be all over UO no where would be safe from attack even at events...
Reds killing for the sheare fun of hearing you cry.... and dry looting you to boot. No house would be safe in public mode...... No you dont really see what it would mean to go back to the "OLD SCHOOL" ways of 97. What little players we have left would flee the game and UO would shut down before the people who love that sort of way of UO could open a account! That was our past..... it cant be made over. We have changed as a people in the gaming world as well as the game. Dont get me wrong I would not mind the old ways with a few tweeks of course, but to get back what UO had is long gone out of reach for us. It was the players who made the game.... not the other way around.
In 97 how many thought the world in general would be like it is today? Just look at the box you got the first UO out of..... look carefully at the game requirements. Now look at the requirements of the Abyss. Now compare the people who opened UO and what runs the venerated halls of UO today..... 15 years is a long time to slip backwards. Dont expect the same outcome if UO was opened today on the same setup... even with super 3d graphics....

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I just look at these things
Stated, "a UO claim to fame - graphics that will run on old boxes
Stated, "I wish a second client had never been born
art changed to common asset, rather than 2 separate client types
Ditch a client, put in new client, w/ all new art - no way
EC playable on an a legacy box - no
I'll ask again - How much difference is there if I'm playing CC, then stop and launch EC??? (I do that now).
"i" think of a 'new' client essentially as an EC client/graphics that 'can' use CC graphics also - Once the core program is loaded up, it doesn't care which graphics it calls, does it? They aren't going to start from scratch building a 'brand new' client.

 

[Bob Schaffer]

All recreating a new Ultima would do is make a new world for them to neglect.
A world of scripting and duping until every item in the game is worthless beyond the time spent getting it 10 fold.
Without basic policing of your game you drive more people away then any patch.
And lets face it they aren't exactly known for doing this.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I just look at these things
Stated, "a UO claim to fame - graphics that will run on old boxes
Stated, "I wish a second client had never been born
art changed to common asset, rather than 2 separate client types
Ditch a client, put in new client, w/ all new art - no way
EC playable on an a legacy box - no
I'll ask again - How much difference is there if I'm playing CC, then stop and launch EC??? (I do that now).
"i" think of a 'new' client essentially as an EC client/graphics that 'can' use CC graphics also - Once the core program is loaded up, it doesn't care which graphics it calls, does it? They aren't going to start from scratch building a 'brand new' client.

Some of the artwork must already be there tho, because I have had some KR testers tell me that the EC artwork is nowhere near as crisp and clean as what they signed off on in KR. *shrugs*

 

[Woodsman]

A new game or new client won't happen. Besides, the EC is the same engine that Oblivion, RIFT, Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online, and a bunch of other games already use. Oblivion and RIFT show the power of the engine that the EC sits on top of. What's important is seeing how this graphics upgrade works out. The graphics are being converted to 3D, according to that post I quoted from Grimm:

Hey there, and again, glad you're back! Yea, we've made a lot of headway on the high res artwork, but we've got a ways to go. Converting pure 2D artwork into 3D is very tricky, and we still have some technical issues to resolve. Not to mention a ton of artistic ones.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think it's safe to say that as soon as we get to a place where we feel comfortable showing something, you'll start seeing things show up in the Herald!

I would like to see high resolution 3D. I know they say that it'll be high resolution 2D, but they are on the edge of putting the system into place to really grow UO. That's frustrating. I don't know of any UO player that doesn't want to see UO survive another 5-10 years, and moving UO to a high resolution 3D system, or at least offering it with one of the clients is the kind of thing that can do that.

That's a big part of why I started this thread - things are being done but at the same time it feels like there are no clear plans because there is no direction being communicated. They refuse to communicate any kind of big picture to us, yet EA is spending who knows how much on upgrading UO, in addition to the Ultima Facebook stuff.

Look at Jeff Skalski's Linked In profile:

Specialties
- Managing and building AAA teams in both inshore and offshore facilities.
- Communicating a clear vision and keeping the team involved with the process to build ownership while maintaining solid results.
- Exceptional people leader – I believe in transparency, open communication and leading with integrity.
- Champions/advocates for my teams and products.
- Charismatic, great speaker
- Software as a service is part of my DNA.
- Artistic background focused on world modeling and level design.

This may sound corny as hell, but look at all of that. Honest to god, that is exactly what I want in a UO producer - somebody who believes in transparency, open communication, and advocate/champion for his products, a charismatic and great speaker.

And look at that last line - "Artistic background focused on world modeling and level design."

That is a perfect fit for what UO needs at this point in time. Yet we're still kept in the dark.

And you want confusing - we had a huge 15th anniversary gift revealed to us. I would think that would have been kept secret, to keep from spoiling it since it's an in-game thing.

I've got faith in TheGrimmOmen that we'll see something, but I'd like to hear this stuff from the producer.

EA is putting money into this stuff. The secrecy and lack of a dialogue leaves me speechless. You'd think they'd be freely talking about it since it would mean free publicity (and free advertising).

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

I think Mesanna has gotten the hints guys..... You cant hold in the suspense and need a fix of awww and amazement. Well, I do remember my hubby or I trying to sneek to give the other a gift....... its damn hard to do! You both know eachother so well that when one is sneeky it shows big time. Not to mention holding in the giggles and will power to not give it to them way before its due.........

Yea, I know the feeling. <evil grin, evil giggles>


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

A new game or new client won't happen. Besides, the EC is the same engine that Oblivion, RIFT, Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online, and a bunch of other games already use. Oblivion and RIFT show the power of the engine that the EC sits on top of. What's important is seeing how this graphics upgrade works out. The graphics are being converted to 3D, according to that post I quoted from Grimm:
I would like to see high resolution 3D. I know they say that it'll be high resolution 2D, but they are on the edge of putting the system into place to really grow UO. That's frustrating. I don't know of any UO player that doesn't want to see UO survive another 5-10 years, and moving UO to a high resolution 3D system, or at least offering it with one of the clients is the kind of thing that can do that.

That's a big part of why I started this thread - things are being done but at the same time it feels like there are no clear plans because there is no direction being communicated. They refuse to communicate any kind of big picture to us, yet EA is spending who knows how much on upgrading UO, in addition to the Ultima Facebook stuff.

Look at Jeff Skalski's Linked In profile:


This may sound corny as hell, but look at all of that. Honest to god, that is exactly what I want in a UO producer - somebody who believes in transparency, open communication, and advocate/champion for his products, a charismatic and great speaker.

And look at that last line - "Artistic background focused on world modeling and level design."

That is a perfect fit for what UO needs at this point in time. Yet we're still kept in the dark.

And you want confusing - we had a huge 15th anniversary gift revealed to us. I would think that would have been kept secret, to keep from spoiling it since it's an in-game thing.

I've got faith in TheGrimmOmen that we'll see something, but I'd like to hear this stuff from the producer.

EA is putting money into this stuff. The secrecy and lack of a dialogue leaves me speechless. You'd think they'd be freely talking about it since it would mean free publicity (and free advertising).

A full on 3D client would be so much fun to build from the ground up! The stuff that I'm doing is really all unrequested prep work. My job, is to anticipate the needs of the team well in advance, and do my best to lay the groundwork so that if someone comes to me and says, "Hey, can we do <fill in the task>?" I can say , yup, I've already done all the groundwork! Much like what happened with the direction to do high res environment artwork.

Doesn't always happen that way (I never saw a "ships with damage states" task coming, honestly), but I try.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[Lord Frodo]

"i" think of a 'new' client essentially as an EC client/graphics that 'can' use CC graphics also - Once the core program is loaded up, it doesn't care which graphics it calls, does it?

I have been asking for the same thing. Why cant the EC display which ever Graphics we want?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

I have been asking for the same thing. Why cant the EC display which ever Graphics we want?

Well, look at it this way... as I feel this might be intimating that they should be allowing "us" to use the KR graphics if we choose.

Here's the problem: Since KR was released, there have been hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of items released into the game. For example, the ENTIRE SA expansion pack. KR was a bad idea from the get-go from an artistic perspective (which is why I will NEVER understand why the initial prototype graphics were green-lit). Say what you will about the trend of UO graphics from UO to T2A to 3D to LBR to AoS to SE to ML to SA to HS... at some level they do tend to fit fairly well together, if not directly in style, at least in artistic tone. The KR graphic set is an entirely different set of graphics... unless we change every object to the sacred banana tree, and then we're good to go.

In order to support KR graphics in addition to the standard UO graphic set, they'd have to work in two completely incompatible design styles.

The way to go was always make hi-res versions of the existing UO graphics so that whatever client in whatever mode, the game looked and felt the same. I mean, let's be honest... a KR SA gargoyle would look nothing like the CC/EC gargoyle does... and that's not even including the artwork for clothing, armor, weapons, et cetera.

Making a distinctly new graphic set (which was dark and boring, IMO) regardless of opinion on the graphics themselves was always a bad idea.

 

[Viquire]

Here's the problem: Since KR was released, there have been hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of items released into the game. For example, the ENTIRE SA expansion pack. KR was a bad idea from the get-go from an artistic perspective (which is why I will NEVER understand why the initial prototype graphics were green-lit). Say what you will about the trend of UO graphics from UO to T2A to 3D to LBR to AoS to SE to ML to SA to HS... at some level they do tend to fit fairly well together, if not directly in style, at least in artistic tone. The KR graphic set is an entirely different set of graphics... unless we change every object to the sacred banana tree, and then we're good to go.

...Making a distinctly new graphic set (which was dark and boring, IMO) regardless of opinion on the graphics themselves was always a bad idea.

Just remember, at one point it was bandied about that whole project was an attempt to move us away from tile based movement. I thought that was a pretty ground breaking goal. And it did, it broke ground, and a lot of other stuff too. :/

The devil is always in the details

 

[Lady Storm]

Grim You do great in that aspect of your work. I admire the dedication to the art. I too would love to see a good 3d of UO, who knows one day EA might give a nod for it. Perhaps if we are very good and Ea makes a bundle on Madden................they might get a tad generous?? (i can hope cant I?)

 

[Petra Fyde]

The way to go was always make hi-res versions of the existing UO graphics so that whatever client in whatever mode, the game looked and felt the same. I mean, let's be honest... a KR SA gargoyle would look nothing like the CC/EC gargoyle does... and that's not even including the artwork for clothing, armor, weapons, et cetera.

Making a distinctly new graphic set (which was dark and boring, IMO) regardless of opinion on the graphics themselves was always a bad idea.

Agreed - it has to look like UO, I believe our 'sprites' begin life as 3D models. It's those models that need to be used for a 3D version. Giving us a totally alien environment in which nothing is famiar and calling it UO just doesn't do.

 

[garillo]

I'm pretty sure I'm with everyone here when I say I love UO, and I mean it when I say that. In its peak, it was probably the best game I've ever played. There's a reason there are a few of the more avid fans still around.
Unfortunately in this day and age when you read any sort of reviews about UO they all contain words like "hacking" "scripting" "duping". Irreparable damage has been done to the game as well as its reputation. As much as I hate to admit it, UO is dying and on its last breaths. The population migrations are a huge indicator of this. As shards were once populated, now the people are spread out thinly among servers with the mecca being ATL. Too much went untended to for too long. Now it's to the point where things can stay hush hush as they do what they can to keep those who are still around here, so the $ will still be coming in for EA. It'll work for some, but eventually people will have to move on.

It was hard facing this truth, and I've since moved on to Diablo 3 patiently awaiting the PvP 1.1 patch to get my fix of gaming. However, UO will forever remain an awesome game in my mind. There are many of great people we've all met playing it, and I'm sure we've all had our fair share of great times, but UO isn't the roaring campfire it used to be. Any glowing embers are now hidden under a layer of grey ash.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Agreed - it has to look like UO, I believe our 'sprites' begin life as 3D models. It's those models that need to be used for a 3D version. Giving us a totally alien environment in which nothing is famiar and calling it UO just doesn't do.

Those models were lost during the move from EARS to Fairfax. They need to be faithfully recreated, at least in style.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Those models were lost during the move from EARS to Fairfax. They need to be faithfully recreated, at least in style.

Actually, you're thinking of the character artwork. The environment art never had 3D models - at least, nothing that was ever kept that I had ever seen. Everything that was made since UOSE has always been pure 2D.

Additionally, those files did not survive well the move from OSI to EA, not EA to Mythic. You have to keep in mind that a lot of stuff had been backed up to TAPE drives! Additionally, a lot of the character rigging had used plugins that no longer existed by the time I came on. It's one of the reasons that I require all assets to use no plugins now. Plugins have a way of getting outdated or unsupported quickly, which leaves you very screwed.

There are a lot of games out there that have teams that cannot upgrade their tools (3D Studio Max, for example) and are stuck in very old versions. It happens a lot.


-Grimm
(Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD)

 

[Sir Ophid of Yew]

Grimm,

Is there a way, in your opinion, to revamp the graphics to compete with WoW, etc, without sacrificing our possessions, houses and current content?

If so, UO could give WoW a run for its money.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[NuSair]

It's not only the art in WoW that causes it to have the fan base it does. And just because UO were to suddenly have that kind of art, it wouldn't compete.

 

[Picus at the office]

While I have not played WoW and only breifly attempted to play a differenent Sony MMORPG game I could imagine that a true recreation of UO might not prove to be that popular. From what I have read WoW and others like it tend to hand out stuff in the form of levels, quests and the like which is not what UO offers. People have lost the imagination of what a true deep game can and should be. There is a defined process that games like WoW can use to push newer expansions and other money making offerings that a deeper game cannot(see our expansions for example) simply due to the fact that these expansions don't really add that much if everything is there on day one.

I'd love to see a true revamp of UO with better graphics, more players and better stuff but I don't think the market is ready or wanting for such a thing.

 

[Sir Ophid of Yew]

It's not only the art in WoW that causes it to have the fan base it does. And just because UO were to suddenly have that kind of art, it wouldn't compete.

What else would we need to compete?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[NuSair]

What else would we need to compete?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

How long do you have?

I'll start by saying that I feel that in most areas, I feel that UO is a superior game to WoW. I've played EQ, WoW, SW and several other MMORPGs.

I'll touch on a couple of areas on reasons why I think that UO probably won't ever complete with the current subscription numbers WoW puts up.

First and foremost, cheating. The hacking, duping, using unapproved 3rd party programs that goes on. Scripting has ruined a lot of the game. You have people who say what someone else does has no effect on you, but that is completely untrue, and shows a real lack of being able to see the big picture. Especially in a sandbox based experience like UO is. It takes a very short search to find where people talk about STILL running scripts for days/weeks/even months at a time. How could someone scripting mining/chopping wood for weeks/months at a time not be a factor in a negative play experience for another player?

I have been in more than a few vents where pvpers openly talk about what hacks/scripts they are currently running. And I have seen the same players post here and other places completely denying use of any of those kinds of programs. It's gotten to the point where each time someone says it, I pretty much chuckle and say 'yeah, right'.

Yes, I know non-pvpers who script as well. And I know pvpers who script that 'useless crap' that they don't want to be bothered with so that they can pvp.

The UO learning curve. UO is pretty much unique in it's approach to character development. In most of the games people learn with, there is are defined classes with corresponding increases (if static and boring) increases in power. In UO, regardless of what you specialize in, what skills you have, there are defined maximums. There isn't a 'kill 1000 Trog beast and get +50 hps, +50 mana, +20 weapon skill, +15 magic skill...ect'. So, there isn't a constant sense of achievement in that way. Now, UO does have some templates that have become popular, but you can still mix and match skills pretty much as you like. Some people don't like figuring that part out. And the armor/weapons level up in power with the player- where is UO they are pretty static as well.

WoW, much like UO did with it's Ultima franchise, started off building off the success of it's War Craft/Star Craft and lesser extent Diablo games. Another issue UO has is that it doesn't have any current PC/Console game releases to go with the online game. Personally, I would love to see the original games redone and re-released. I believe that their frame work stands the test of time and would be top games today.

Marketing. Getting the game out there. Even on the gametime cards you can buy in places like Best Buy which list dead games under the EA banner, you see no image/reference to UO. It's like EA bought OSI to get UO with the express intention of killing it, but the fan base loves it so much, they are like, we can put a minimum amount of $$ into the game and keep milking it. It's like since they didn't directly develop it, they don't want to give it what it needs to excel.

The culture. The in game chat being pretty much not policed at all is a problem. You can say what you want- don't like it don't go in there, whatever. The general chat should be a PG area at worst. You can create another channel and go in there for other stuff- like PvP smack talk. I wish there was a way to join multiple chat channels at once. I feel that would go a long ways toward cleaning up the game in that aspect.

UI, party, playing with others. In it's base form, the UO UI is pretty damn aweful. Both the CC and EC. Pinco's is a nice start. UO needs a better party and bar system. The losing of bars and all the bars suddenly having the same name is unacceptable. The UI needs to be geared towards a better player experience. If the CC is going to continue to be supported, it needs a toolbar/hot key system. There should be a block area thing like with the buff bar for party health bars. I don't think that because of the way UO is designed that is feasible for pets because a tamer can have up to 5 pets, and if you had a part of 10 tamers, each with 5 pets.... yeah.... I wonder how long would it take 50 frenzied ostards (or 50 other tamables with pack instinct to take down something various creatures in UO). Also, there needs to be a direct /tell system.

That's a start. So, in a nutshell- I think that having 0 tolerance towards cheating/hacking/duping- and being openly proactive about it. Releasing or re-releasing a Ultima based RPG. Proactive Marketing. Updating the clients to support multiple chat channels, actively policing the general chat channel. Updating the bars/party, UI. And whatever else I forgot to recap.

It's about creating an environment that players are comfortable enough/familiar with so that they are willing to give it a try, but keep UOs unique flavor that will keep them.

Yeah, that would be a start.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Grimm,

Is there a way, in your opinion, to revamp the graphics to compete with WoW, etc, without sacrificing our possessions, houses and current content?

If so, UO could give WoW a run for its money.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

In my opinion, when developers end their ideas with ".. to compete with WoW." -they've already lost, so trying to change UO with the goal being to compete with with WoW is not a good idea. Any changes whose goal is to improve UO for UO's sake is, I think, on the right track.

I think 3D is the next inevitable transition for UO. Anything else doesn't make sense. The real question is, how much effort should be made to make the new client feel like the UO that the seasoned players know, and how much should be made into something that feels more modern. I think taking UO into a realistic art direction (Skyrim, Dragon Age, etc.) would be a huge mistake, and in retrospect, was something we should have been better at avoiding with UOKR.

If you want my opinion for longevity's sake, re-designing things so that they are more appealing to kids would be a huge win to getting UO to 20+ years. Not that I'm saying we go all "My Little Pony", but something between what we have now and "Dragons Lair" area. Something that can appeal to kids, but still have awesomeness that adults can enjoy - but perhaps without the Chuck Avery homage. No, it wouldn't look quite like the UO we know now, but right now UO doesn't stand out as being unique in art style (Legacy or EC). And that's something that you have to have to get noticed - aside from obviously having terrific gameplay.

BTW, I totally realize that the above paragraph is utter heresy. ;-) But you can rest assured that any revamps to UO would most likely not involve me, so those who might be wigging over what I just said can rest peacefully now.

-Grimm

 

[Storm]

I think Grimm is correct in that UO should not be competing with WOW! UO beats wow/rift hands down in all areas but one...Graphics!
The problem is changing UO graphic style loses the nostalgia of the game. but I used to have a old car i kept for that reason you know what I ended up dumping the old car even though I loved it for a new model!

I think Uo has 2 options
1 stay the same and try to stay in the niche we have for as long as possible ..maybe up to 5 years if we are lucky
2 spend some money and revamp the art for the new era and bring the game in line with other games art wise

number 2 is the best option for a chance at real longevity the game would either die within the first year from people not liking it being revamped or it would become the biggest game of all time trouncing wow and any other game!

Uo has the best gaming mechanics in any game I have ever seen (total package) so it already has the lead on the others, do something with the graphics either in the direction grimm suggested or go with 3d type graphics and UO would be back on top

Just my opinions

 

[Nimuaq]

(..) but something between what we have now and "Dragons Lair" area.

Dragon's Lair's graphics are good, but good for a game released in 1983. I don't think we need the graphics to be more appealing to kids for a game that has a ESRB:T rating, unless you mean teenagers (in which case and considering that you remember a game released in 1983, how old are you anyways? )

 

[Sevin0oo0]

when developers end their ideas with ".. to compete with WoW." -they've already lost

/this.
I keep seeing people say, I tried this or that, point is past tense, and a temporarily thing. Companies throw a few bells and whistles on something, and 'say' it's good; and maybe it is, for a while. New bells and whistles are still just bells and whistles, not necessarily anything worthwhile - I call it what it is, ephemeral

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

I think Grimm is correct in that UO should not be competing with WOW! UO beats wow/rift hands down in all areas but one...Graphics!
The problem is changing UO graphic style loses the nostalgia of the game. but I used to have a old car i kept for that reason you know what I ended up dumping the old car even though I loved it for a new model!

I think Uo has 2 options
1 stay the same and try to stay in the niche we have for as long as possible ..maybe up to 5 years if we are lucky
2 spend some money and revamp the art for the new era and bring the game in line with other games art wise

number 2 is the best option for a chance at real longevity the game would either die within the first year from people not liking it being revamped or it would become the biggest game of all time trouncing wow and any other game!

Uo has the best gaming mechanics in any game I have ever seen (total package) so it already has the lead on the others, do something with the graphics either in the direction grimm suggested or go with 3d type graphics and UO would be back on top

Just my opinions

Yea, the thing about nostalgia - it only applies to those of us who actually remember playing games in those days! Dude, my first game was the pong console.

-Grimm

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Dragon's Lair's graphics are good, but good for a game released in 1983. I don't think we need the graphics to be more appealing to kids for a game that has a ESRB:T rating, unless you mean teenagers (in which case and considering that you remember a game released in 1983, how old are you anyways? )

Hahah! Old.

But no, I don't mean to emulate Dragons Lair, just trying to give an example of something of an art style between stylized and the more realistic-ish-ness that is the current UO.

-Grimm

 

[Pinco]

In my opinion, when developers end their ideas with ".. to compete with WoW." -they've already lost, so trying to change UO with the goal being to compete with with WoW is not a good idea. Any changes whose goal is to improve UO for UO's sake is, I think, on the right track.

I think 3D is the next inevitable transition for UO. Anything else doesn't make sense. The real question is, how much effort should be made to make the new client feel like the UO that the seasoned players know, and how much should be made into something that feels more modern. I think taking UO into a realistic art direction (Skyrim, Dragon Age, etc.) would be a huge mistake, and in retrospect, was something we should have been better at avoiding with UOKR.

If you want my opinion for longevity's sake, re-designing things so that they are more appealing to kids would be a huge win to getting UO to 20+ years. Not that I'm saying we go all "My Little Pony", but something between what we have now and "Dragons Lair" area. Something that can appeal to kids, but still have awesomeness that adults can enjoy - but perhaps without the Chuck Avery homage. No, it wouldn't look quite like the UO we know now, but right now UO doesn't stand out as being unique in art style (Legacy or EC). And that's something that you have to have to get noticed - aside from obviously having terrific gameplay.

BTW, I totally realize that the above paragraph is utter heresy. ;-) But you can rest assured that any revamps to UO would most likely not involve me, so those who might be wigging over what I just said can rest peacefully now.

-Grimm

The isometric design of UO it's probably a must since (as you said) bring it to a 3rd/1st person will radically change the game... Graphically I see UO with an isometric system almost like Anno 2070 where you can rotate the map and zoom a bit, but it always stays isometric... the rotation would be not much for fighting but more for easy moving around houses and allows player to makes a deep house customization

What I think would really improve the game is the physics (applied to 3d models obviously). The physics and few little changes to the gameplay to make it more enjoyable will really improve UO.
Another funny thing would be makes the environment less static and more interactive, for example in Skyrim if you go over the edge of a mountain you fall down. In UO there are several places (like the rope bridge in the fire dungeon) that looks scary to cross over, but it's not since there is no chance to fall
Last thing that comes in my mind that makes UO "old" are the artificial intelligence (not the boss ones), the low level monsters are pretty stupid... adding some interaction between them and let them use some new tricks like escaping with teleport or try to ambush players by using all their powers could really makes the game more enjoyable for everyone

 

[Storm]

Yea, the thing about nostalgia - it only applies to those of us who actually remember playing games in those days! Dude, my first game was the pong console.

-Grimm

lol mine was the odessey http://www.steverd.com/whatpong/od300.jpg

 

[Woodsman]

Agreed - it has to look like UO, I believe our 'sprites' begin life as 3D models. It's those models that need to be used for a 3D version. Giving us a totally alien environment in which nothing is famiar and calling it UO just doesn't do.

Agreed. At this point, give us a 3D version of what we currently have. Make it easier for content to be added, rather than the process of doing it in 3D, chopping it for 2D/downgrading it for the game, etc. and make it attractive.

What else would we need to compete?

I'll agree with NuSair in saying that UO does have areas where it easily beats WoW namely gameplay and staying away from leveling and forcing you into narrower templates.

What it needs is to be able to catch the attention and attract new players. It sounds like this is being done on some level with the graphics update.

The other thing WoW has is a lot of polish. That's a lot tougher to do, but in a way the team is moving there with the dungeon revamps and with finishing some of the other stuff. It still needs a new website, it did get a new player guide.

Ultimately UO needs more players. There's no getting around it.

 

[Woodsman]

I think Uo has 2 options
1 stay the same and try to stay in the niche we have for as long as possible ..maybe up to 5 years if we are lucky
2 spend some money and revamp the art for the new era and bring the game in line with other games art wise

number 2 is the best option for a chance at real longevity the game would either die within the first year from people not liking it being revamped or it would become the biggest game of all time trouncing wow and any other game!

Uo has the best gaming mechanics in any game I have ever seen (total package) so it already has the lead on the others, do something with the graphics either in the direction grimm suggested or go with 3d type graphics and UO would be back on top

Just my opinions

I agree. A lot of people who don't think UO could compete with other games if given a chance (like with a graphics update) have probably never played those games or they don't have as much faith in UO as they should.

And #2 maybe risky, but it's a given that UO in its current state would be extremely lucky to make it another 5 years. While UO's demise was predicted in the past and ridiculed, this isn't 2002 or 2007, it's 2012. UO needs a boost.

I've said this several times - WoW loses more players in a week than UO has playing. When I was running a guild in WoW, every time a major game came out, a large group of guild members would try it out, and eventually come back. They could not find what they wanted in other games, but the fact that they were trying other games was a good sign that weren't satisfied with WoW either.

TheGrimmOmen is absolutely correct - you can't compete with WoW. It's like the iPhone. Any product labeled "WoW-Killer" or "iPhone-Killer" is never going to kill off either one of them. But the beauty of UO is that it offers an experience unlike any other game. It's just getting people to try it out is the hard part.

 

[Bob Schaffer]

Nusair makes some really good points about the cheating in UO. It has been so ignored and by most of the population of this game.
Look a step further though, and understand a large percentage that left to begin with partially left because of this.
This alone is a very large reason why UO has no long term future, and why it cant be recreated not by EA or Mythic. No one will believe them you will get a cheat free environment, or even
a environment where you can believe they at least try to combat it. This inattention to their MMORPG will bleed like a virus to other creations as most MMORPG players talk and word truly does get around.
If you really believe Skalaski and his vision of a cheaters Haven, then perhaps you would be good enough to cite an example where people payed for this. What we all got (no people) was the expected result by far.

Its amusing watching the people of Stratics and their view of the whole situation. If you are new to this forum realize UO is unique in the perspective that it takes the cake in being by far so cheap
that they haven't created their own forum for their devs to talk to the playerbase. So where does that leave Stratics? Good question, not anywhere really, the other games refrenced here are pointless to stop by,
as i can just go to the official website and obtain all the forum discussion i like and actually possiblly reach a dev.

I too will never understand UO's decision making, in its attempt to reach the lowest player base possible, but i do know i wont pay for it anymore.

 

[Woodsman]

WoW, much like UO did with it's Ultima franchise, started off building off the success of it's War Craft/Star Craft and lesser extent Diablo games. Another issue UO has is that it doesn't have any current PC/Console game releases to go with the online game. Personally, I would love to see the original games redone and re-released. I believe that their frame work stands the test of time and would be top games today.

I agree. I would love to see Ultima IV - VII remade on a modern engine. Chances are lose though, but we are getting some kind of social or Facebook Ultima. Even if most of us playing UO won't try it, there's a good chance it will get people to take a look at UO. Let's hope the graphics on the Facebook game are not as good as UO though.

Marketing. Getting the game out there. Even on the gametime cards you can buy in places like Best Buy which list dead games under the EA banner, you see no image/reference to UO. It's like EA bought OSI to get UO with the express intention of killing it

EA bought Origin years before a line of code was written for UO. Richard Garriott went to the EA CEO to get the seed money to make UO.

As for marketing in general, you gotta have something to market first. If this graphics update looks good, the gaming sites will give UO a lot of free attention. A lot of free attention.

As for stores like Best Buy, I would be surprised if more than 4-5 EA titles are carried in Best Buy 5 years from now. EA wants to distribute everything to Origin.com. They want to cut out retail channels like Best Buy and Amazon and Gamestop. And EA has the power and the drive to do that. They may lose some sales, but the profit margins shoot way up once they cut out the retailers. So I wouldn't put much stock in anything beyond the Battlefield 3s and Maddens and FIFAs getting retail versions.

But one area that would be nice is Origin.com gametime/gift cards. Doesn't have to be UO-specific either, just Origin.com that would allow you to pre-pay and then apply it to your account.

 

[Woodsman]

The isometric design of UO it's probably a must since (as you said) bring it to a 3rd/1st person will radically change the game... Graphically I see UO with an isometric system almost like Anno 2070 where you can rotate the map and zoom a bit, but it always stays isometric... the rotation would be not much for fighting but more for easy moving around houses and allows player to makes a deep house customization

The house customization under a 3D UO, even while retaining the isometric perspective would be amazing. A lot of the hacks and work-arounds (and failures) that the hardcore house customizers have to suffer through would be a thing of the past. They would be able to check it from several angles, everything would be much easier to move around.

Plus a move to 3D would speed up content creation and it would open up a lot more house customization areas.

 

[Woodsman]

Nusair makes some really good points about the cheating in UO. It has been so ignored and by most of the population of this game.
Look a step further though, and understand a large percentage that left to begin with partially left because of this.

There are many reasons why people have left UO. Having played just about every major MMORPG, cheating is a problem every where. I'm not defending EA's stance on it, but cheating is happening in all of EA's online games. Whether it's websites selling UO gold, Star Wars: The Old Republic credits or whatever, yeah it's everywhere. It is annoying that chat is starting to resemble Warcraft and Diablo III in that I can't play more than a few hours without having spam in chat for a certain RMT website.

But I think you ought to start a separate thread for it. I will join you there and I'll post in-game screenshots of the spammers I see. I think it really deserves its own topic and discussion.

 

[Sauteed Onion]

Somewhere in somebodies' thread I dropped a video of my guild killing medusa, and when we dropped party the bars disappeared, and that's just one little thing. If you go to Makoto-Jima near the north exit closest to the moongate, there is an NPC close by that offers a quest when you approach them. If you deny the quest, it brings up a questionnaire. It's a simple 1 question thing about why you decided to abandon that quest in particular. Also, when samurai empire launched and you created a ninja or samurai character it started you off in a little Samurai Empire dungeon that was neat, but later pulled from the game.. but that guy wasn't.. What's the idea here?

Another thing, if you cast a damaging spell on a creature, and before the damage from that spell shows on the creature you're fighting you begin to meditate, once that damage lands, you stop meditating, as if you had performed some kind of action. I've sent that bug report in many times, and would gladly make a video of it, if I knew i wouldn't be ignored time and time again for taking my time out to find these little quirks. I almost would take the time to spend an hour each day over the course of a week, recording myself and then go back and pick out the bugs or things that need to be addressed, and having a compiled list of stuff that should be addressed before any thing "new" to the game is added. And it's all seemingly minor by itself. But when you stack it up, it begins to become a serious cause for concern, especially regarding a new player who starts running into the bugs/glitches/people standing in town casting spells who don't respond when asked "What's up?" (Seen that a few times last week actually, and got one banned, was great). Then there's reports of people loosing items when they go to shame or covetous, pet stat loss, people claiming their characters are bugged and don't receive things in their back pack when they should.. (I've had several cases where fighting navrey myself and the tangle or sot just spawns on navrey's corpse instead, along with medusa statue spawning in medusa's corpse only had that one once though, so not sure if that's the typical way the statue happens). I had a character that had 92 strength for FIVE YEARS, and he was a 110 swordsman, 100 lumberjack and also a miner. I tried making sure other stats were toggled down, and strength was toggled up.. he wasn't even at cap stats. That can't be right. And yes, I reported that too, to no avail. So I stoned all those skills, and deleted character. That shouldn't be the fix.

I cancelled 2nd account, and was given a questionnaire. It was not brief, and actually some questions were asked more than once. I took a massive dump in the sections where I could freely type my reasoning, and I don't even know why, because it's probably lol'd and ignored. But I tell ya what, devs keep lol'ing and ignoring and see what you wind up with. Keep asking for feedback and what we'd like to see for in game gifts or other ideas.. and ignoring those. Sooner or later, you won't have anyone to come back to and ask those questions. And that's the future. You can take a 2 month period, hell even less, and fix 90% of what's going on that's negative in the game. And yes I'm pulling that # out of my butt, I have no way to prove you can fix that, but I'll bet you could address 95% of the issues people bring up that don't involve adding new content. And I'm pretty close to cancelling my 1st account, and the only reason I'm not is I've got this, (however faint) glimmer of hope that somebody gives enough of a *expletive* to stop the stupidness and fix the things that need fixing, for those that genuinely love the game. That would be the single most awesome 15th anniversary gift I could imagine. Loading up UO and struggling to find a bug, not struggling to find a reason why I should continue saying ok, here's my subscription money.