NEWS [UO.Com] Publish 81 on TC1

[Petra Fyde]

Personally, I'm waiting to see what Bleak comes back with after he's processed the feedback.
There are other things that can help with stamina loss. Highly peculiar fish for example, unicorn fish pie, though that would probably too hard to obtain to be practical.
The fish don't stack, but then neither did refresh pots for years and that didn't stop anyone from carrying them.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

-Once disarmed you cannot arm again for 13 weeks, and you are banished to the life of a farmer as depicted by Dodge in the superbowl commercial.

If you are red and die in Fel you go to jail for 2 weeks.

 

[KLOMP]

Personally, I'm waiting to see what Bleak comes back with after he's processed the feedback.

Yeah I'm kinda shouted out on this. We've hurled our tomatoes, they claim to understand our concerns, ball is in their court now. Time to sit back and see what they do next.

 

[FrejaSP]

I think the best would be to allow drinking of potions with 2 handed weapons but when you do you skip your next swing.

I would like that, same with casting spells, let the weapon auto rearm but you lose first swing after rearm.

 

[Quickblade]

Suggestion for Dragon Scales and also for useless Charybdis armor...

make the charybdis epiphany set and maybe the other one with mana burst enhancable with dragon scales. Put up some bonus for each dragon scale much like wood but different bonuses.. I would go with some resists and eater damage for each scale or maybe some spell consuption % that you can see of the Virtue Bane Bracers. Just throwing some ideas to make the Charybdis set useful, I mean the Tool of Charybdis is hard to get, and so the baits and so the 120 fishing scroll. On top of that you need to kill several Charybdis to make a complete set (24 different armor peices) so this set def need a boost...

 

[Berethrain]

I would like that, same with casting spells, let the weapon auto rearm but you lose first swing after rearm.

That sucks. Then that should happen to every weapon. Two handed weapons are already at a disadvantage for speed vs 1 handed weapons.

 

[MalagAste]

That sucks. Then that should happen to every weapon. Two handed weapons are already at a disadvantage for speed vs 1 handed weapons.

I agree...... I'm already out 5 mods and some resists since I can't carry a shield.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

It uses 10 Stamina to push through something in Fel. You need full Stamina to push through something. Fish Steaks restore 4 Stamina, weigh 1/10 Stone, and you can eat about 13-16 before you get "completely full". You can use Pepta's Satiety Cure to make yourself "extremely hungry" again when you get full. Push through something, eat 3 Fish Steaks, push through another, eat some more, repeat. Cheese Wheels work even better, but you can't craft/buy those, they can only be made with the Create Food spell or looted.

Push through is not the issue. The issue is that after the proposed changes warriors will be completely unable to keep up a decent ssi and no amount of fish steaks will change that.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Push through is not the issue. The issue is that after the proposed changes warriors will be completely unable to keep up a decent ssi and no amount of fish steaks will change that.

Stam Leech still works for it. I was able to stay above 130 Stam while hitting a Balron with measly 27 damage hits with 44% Hit Stam Leech on my weps. They didn't DR it too badly.

 

[Aroma]

Has any checked to see what happens to the tamer template???? Pets lose all stam and stop moveing/attacking and die. Or pets let the beasty go and target the tamer who then gets creamed?

Tamers have no use in pvp so strickly pvm related testing.

 

[MalagAste]

Stam Leech still works for it. I was able to stay above 130 Stam while hitting a Balron with measly 27 damage hits with 44% Hit Stam Leech on my weps. They didn't DR it too badly.

Yes so I trade Mana Leech for Stamina and run around with NO Mana all the time again..... That's a good trade-off.... NOT.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Has any checked to see what happens to the tamer template???? Pets lose all stam and stop moveing/attacking and die. Or pets let the beasty go and target the tamer who then gets creamed?

Tamers have no use in pvp so strickly pvm related testing.

Just tested 2 different GDs on Swoop, Spellbinders and Trogs. I let Swoop and a group of Trogs take both GDs down to less than 100 hit points and lost no Stamina. YEA They did not NERF pets. Did same with a Cu and a group of Trogs and still no Stamina loss.

 

[Basara]

Kyronix:
A matter I brought up at the Q&A in Fairfax -

Any chance of getting JOAT un-nerfed for Special Move costs? Prior to the nerf, JOAT counted towards the cost reduction - and that reduction was the only thing that made playing a human a viable template choice for any kind of weapons user.

Over time, the cost reduction for less real skill investment equalized the imbalance created by the Elf's +20 mana, and encouraged humans to have much more varied templates than the now-nearly-mandatory Elven Necro-Samurai (Sampire, Whammy) PvM/PvE templates. In PvP, it's initially balancing, but if the fight goes more than 4-5 hits, the human gets a slight edge in recovery time, but that's before factoring in current emphasis on Mana Regen, Hit Mana Leech, and/or Hit Mana drain, that would makes that slight edge moot, if it were reinstated.

Looking at the ML design statements, it is fairly obvious that the Elven +20 mana was meant to be a boost for spellcasters, not melee characters. There were also developer statements made (lost in the Stratics crash of 2008) that inferred that the humans getting the JOAT bonus to the special moves was an intended racial benefit.

As part of phase 2 of this balance pass, please consider rescinding the JOAT special move nerf, and restore racial balance in the weapon-using templates. I'm getting sick of Undead Elven Samurai Online.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Kyronix:
A matter I brought up at the Q&A in Fairfax -

Any chance of getting JOAT un-nerfed for Special Move costs? Prior to the nerf, JOAT counted towards the cost reduction - and that reduction was the only thing that made playing a human a viable template choice for any kind of weapons user.

Over time, the cost reduction for less real skill investment equalized the imbalance created by the Elf's +20 mana, and encouraged humans to have much more varied templates than the now-nearly-mandatory Elven Necro-Samurai (Sampire, Whammy) PvM/PvE templates. In PvP, it's initially balancing, but if the fight goes more than 4-5 hits, the human gets a slight edge in recovery time, but that's before factoring in current emphasis on Mana Regen, Hit Mana Leech, and/or Hit Mana drain, that would makes that slight edge moot, if it were reinstated.

Looking at the ML design statements, it is fairly obvious that the Elven +20 mana was meant to be a boost for spellcasters, not melee characters. There were also developer statements made (lost in the Stratics crash of 2008) that inferred that the humans getting the JOAT bonus to the special moves was an intended racial benefit.

As part of phase 2 of this balance pass, please consider rescinding the JOAT special move nerf, and restore racial balance in the weapon-using templates. I'm getting sick of Undead Elven Samurai Online.

Well said and I couldn't agree more.

I think this would be the perfect opportunity to restore the small JOAT boost for many different reasons.

 

[Lefty]

Kyronix:
A matter I brought up at the Q&A in Fairfax -

Any chance of getting JOAT un-nerfed for Special Move costs? Prior to the nerf, JOAT counted towards the cost reduction - and that reduction was the only thing that made playing a human a viable template choice for any kind of weapons user.

Over time, the cost reduction for less real skill investment equalized the imbalance created by the Elf's +20 mana, and encouraged humans to have much more varied templates than the now-nearly-mandatory Elven Necro-Samurai (Sampire, Whammy) PvM/PvE templates. In PvP, it's initially balancing, but if the fight goes more than 4-5 hits, the human gets a slight edge in recovery time, but that's before factoring in current emphasis on Mana Regen, Hit Mana Leech, and/or Hit Mana drain, that would makes that slight edge moot, if it were reinstated.

Looking at the ML design statements, it is fairly obvious that the Elven +20 mana was meant to be a boost for spellcasters, not melee characters. There were also developer statements made (lost in the Stratics crash of 2008) that inferred that the humans getting the JOAT bonus to the special moves was an intended racial benefit.

As part of phase 2 of this balance pass, please consider rescinding the JOAT special move nerf, and restore racial balance in the weapon-using templates. I'm getting sick of Undead Elven Samurai Online.

Overall it is not the JOAT penalty. This can be overcome by template type investing in real 300 point combat skills to get the reduction to special moves.

The real problem is the special move penalty (double mana cost) within 3 seconds. This was to suppose to have been a temporary measure by Mr Tact till they got damage caps put in place and addressed leeching effects.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I honestly never did understand the JOAT removal. I was PvPing actively at the time and it had much more of an impact than I thought it would.

I rolled with it, but never quite understood the reasoning.

-Galen's player

 

[Logrus]

Specials tied directly to mana more of an issue than JOAT. Though JOAT was kind of extreme. An additional 10%-20%-30% LMC to all specials really makes it a no brainer playing a human over anything else (other than garg thrower).
The + 20 mana for elves, provides a bonus in low mana characters but beyond that, the regen and lower mana cost just completely trump that.

I do dislike the tie of specials to mana, but hey thats a system likely not to change anytime soon. And that being the case may be better to re-examine the racial bonuses, as part of combat balancing. Though anything implemented needs to take into account changes in light of whether they extend or provide new capabilities, or just add requirements.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Specials tied directly to mana more of an issue than JOAT. Though JOAT was kind of extreme. An additional 10%-20%-30% LMC to all specials really makes it a no brainer playing a human over anything else (other than garg thrower).
The + 20 mana for elves, provides a bonus in low mana characters but beyond that, the regen and lower mana cost just completely trump that.

I do dislike the tie of specials to mana, but hey thats a system likely not to change anytime soon. And that being the case may be better to re-examine the racial bonuses, as part of combat balancing. Though anything implemented needs to take into account changes in light of whether they extend or provide new capabilities, or just add requirements.

The argument among the people I knew at the time was that without the JOAT mana cost reduction, there was actually a disincentive to play a human dexxer. That without the mana cost reduction from JOAT elves were actually imbalanced, particularly in PvP.

To what degree this arugment was just us saying things that favored our characters, or was the general opinion, I cannot say.

The idea was that it is difficult for dexxers to get off that one last move to kill someone; usually it was going to be one last armor ignore. The JOAT thing enabled that one last move to happen, it became nearly impossible without it; unless of course you had that extra mana from being an elf. This, of course, had much more of an impact upon those who were better at PvP than I was!

-Galen's player

 

[NuSair]

Specials on weapons should be tied to a timer, not mana, you can do X special every Y seconds.

 

[G.v.P]

what makes this worse, is a option around it could be adding chiv, well they nerfed chiv too, HAHA
waytogodevs! :gun:

while your at it, lets put additional timer on casting spells too? LOL...

LEAVE STAMINA POTS ALONE

yeah, I really don't understand the divine fury nerf. who complained about that being OP?

 

[G.v.P]

anymore its my thrower or my scribe mages, which both can easily out class any non ranged dexer.

I've always lamented how archers turned PvP dependent. People used to use archery as a support skill rather than an independent build (goodbye, para), and then you have all the post stealth archer scrub builds once dismount/specials were added, ninjitsu animal form free DP, and all the other lameness. I mean sure, there were archery mage builds and hybrids, but most people played straight mage, tank mage, tank warrior in invul plate.

Archers should only be good at range. I know Cal tried that with Throwing and no one liked the "sweet spots," but moving shot is ridiculous as a mechanic. In any strategy game you play, long range weapons have worse accuracy at point blank. Moving shot was a horrible addition to UO and I'm glad they're planning on nerfing the mana cost, at least. They ought to nerf it more, but a small nerf is better to test balance than a big one. And then you have throwing, which they dumbed down so much it became so much better than archery. Removed HCI debuffs, parry debuff, everything that made throwing balanced, because people weren't having fun. Then they just made it OP in order to make people happy with their new gargs.

The whole moving shot idea and throwing doubling as a range and melee skill is kind of annoying, but I understand they just wanted to make things interesting. Problem is moving shot is worthless in PvM, really, and doesn't make sense for the kit in PvP. "Let's create a situation in which someone can constantly out range someone else and never have to stop moving, either." Oh, AOS LMC/MR.

 

[Logrus]

The argument among the people I knew at the time was that without the JOAT mana cost reduction, there was actually a disincentive to play a human dexxer. That without the mana cost reduction from JOAT elves were actually imbalanced, particularly in PvP.
-Galen's player

I completely agree with that statement. I was merely saying JOAT was way better than 20 mana. Unfortunately that JOAT bonus was removed, but not replaced.

As such racials really tied in advantages to playstyles. That whole system could use some revamping. I guess gargoyles have a bunch of combat racials, but humans and elves to a lesser extend really not that big a deal. Something similar in genre but different in implementation.
Say humans get a increased bonus to armor for preventing stamina loss.
Elves get an increased bonus to stamina regen.

So humans have better resistance, elves have better recovery.

Ah well, thats a different kettle of fish.

 

[G.v.P]

-Once disarmed you cannot arm again for 13 weeks, and you are banished to the life of a farmer as depicted by Dodge in the superbowl commercial.

They should bring back disarm thieves otherwise disarm is such a lame special. It should do no damage and only disarm and the new timer is sorely needed. As others have suggested, disarm should be used purely as a defensive move. Mage weps are lame too, yes, I'm not saying they aren't. Maybe they should make it so mages need to use more SDI on items and the only way to do that would be to use a spellbook rather than a mage wep, so players have to choose between damage output and survivability. Right now mage weps continue to be too OP because they provide both.

 

[Gheed]

yeah, I really don't understand the divine fury nerf. who complained about that being OP?

The feel of the change was a net nerf across the board to maintaining stamina and methods of regenerating stamina. Then just making full plate the largest mitigation to that nerf. I dont think there were many complaints about DF, the new system just made DF op.

I dont think we had a very in depth explanation of the new system. More importantly (to me), I don't fully understand how the old system worked. I only knew I needed x stamina and x SSI to reach a certain swing speed. Then a moderate chunk of stamina leech to maintain. But I dont know much about how previous stamina damage was calculated.

Two important things in reaching a destination: Knowing where you are going, and knowing where you are coming from.

 

[MalagAste]

I completely agree with that statement. I was merely saying JOAT was way better than 20 mana. Unfortunately that JOAT bonus was removed, but not replaced.

As such racials really tied in advantages to playstyles. That whole system could use some revamping. I guess gargoyles have a bunch of combat racials, but humans and elves to a lesser extend really not that big a deal. Something similar in genre but different in implementation.
Say humans get a increased bonus to armor for preventing stamina loss.
Elves get an increased bonus to stamina regen.

So humans have better resistance, elves have better recovery.

Ah well, thats a different kettle of fish.

I might be ok with that. Most all my characters are elves, few are human and even fewer are gargoyle. But Racial bonus's are a big issue.

 

[frostbolt]

please consider reverting the change on the leafblade weapon specials.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Specials tied directly to mana more of an issue than JOAT. Though JOAT was kind of extreme. An additional 10%-20%-30% LMC to all specials really makes it a no brainer playing a human over anything else (other than garg thrower).
The + 20 mana for elves, provides a bonus in low mana characters but beyond that, the regen and lower mana cost just completely trump that.

I do dislike the tie of specials to mana, but hey thats a system likely not to change anytime soon. And that being the case may be better to re-examine the racial bonuses, as part of combat balancing. Though anything implemented needs to take into account changes in light of whether they extend or provide new capabilities, or just add requirements.

Prior to the JoAT nerf, Human Warriors were better than Elf Warriors for Mana efficiency, unless your template had 300+ Real Skill points (Like Samurais and Stealthers/Ninjas), at which point Elves were better, since they recieved the -10 Special Reduction from their skill points, while recieving an extra +20 Mana as an Elf, not to mention the +5% Energy Resist Cap.
Human Warrior with 120 real skill points qualified for -10 Special Reduction, making his Specials cost 20 Mana instead of 30 Mana. Elf Warrior with 120 real skill points had 30 Mana cost Specials, but also had +20 more total Mana than the Human. The Human would have to deal at least 2 Specials to save on the amount of Mana that a Elf recieved as a bonus. However, once LMC from items entered the mix, the difference between Mana cost became closer. Human Warrior with 40% LMC had 12 Mana cost specials, while the Elf Warrior with 40% LMC had 18 Mana cost specials. The Human Warrior would have to deal 4 regular specials to save on the Mana that a Elf got as a bonus.

When Human JoAT was nerfed, there was no more incentive at all to remain a Human Warrior, regardless of what your skill points were. Human Warriors essentially became extinct, because Elf Warriors outclassed them in every way. Elf Warriors did more damage due to higher Mana, they took less damage due to the increased Energy Resist Cap, and once Imbuing/Forged Tool came out, the gap further increased with the mods that Imbued/Enhanced Woodland Armor could get.

Gargoyles also have several racials that directly tie into combat, their +5% HCI/HCI Cap (Cap part getting removed), their +15% Dam Inc/SDI for every 20% Health lost, their 30.0 innate Mysticism (Tie this with real GM Focus skill, and you can put +41% Hit Lightning on your weps with a spell cast), and +2 MR. Their armor is also absolutely superior Resist wise to all other armor (even Woodland), allowing you to spend less imbues on Resists, and more on other useful mods. The only disadvantage a Gargoyle Warrior has against Humans/Elves, is that they can't ride Armored Swampies, which only pertains to PvM.

Humans can do a few things that the other races can't, due to JoAT. If being chased by other players, you can run around the side of a house and try to Hide with a 20% success chance, hoping the enemies lose you and pass you by. You can use Tracking to follow someone who's running away. You can use Forensic Eval on a corpse and take a screenshot, to prove that you were the one that killed the person. Probably the biggest one, is that you can get a Lvl 6 Arcane Focus and cast Attunement/Gift of Renewal with a little more success/effectiveness than a Elf/Gargoyle can. You used to be able to cast Close Wounds, Cleanse by Fire, Remove Curse and Con Wep with about a 20-25% success chance, but when they made Chiv require high skill levels to be useful, they completely nerfed that part of JoAT.

 

[Logrus]

Yep definitely need a good rework for racial bonuses.

 

[SixUnder]

leave refresh alone.. DONT NERF TOTAL EFRESH, it is just a stupid idea...

i think its neat that a fencer can have a leafblade that will bleed and I, us fencers not use to that. kind of kool.. just imho..

 

[Cetric]

i sure hope they remove feint from the leafblade and keep the proposed bleed change

 

[Basara]

Yep definitely need a good rework for racial bonuses.

The main problems are that SE template Elves end up with the +20 mana AND the -10 cost reduction, just from the base skills of the template/race combo.

• Standard (pre-AoS) warriors need to be Axers with LJ & Parry, or some combination of two of (Parry, poison, or stealth) to get to 300.
• Original AoS Necro-Warriors only exist while the characters are in New Haven training (and that was the base template)
• Paladin Templates have to add another skill into their template, but most of the qualifying skills just don't fit the RP aspect of Paladin. Poison and stealth are right out. Bushido personal honor is the opposite of the Humility of what Paladins are supposed to represent. Ninjas don't really fit the compassion (they're sneaky assassins, though in some legends they were robin hood types standing up for the downtrodden. Theoretically they would be the least incompatible, without the assassin aspect). Lumberjacking really doesn't fit the mold of a chivalrous knight that well - especially if the weapon is an Executioner's axe. That pretty much leaves doubling up on a weapon skill, to go with Parry & Swords - which is an abysmal waste of template points.

So, the easiest fix would be adding Chivalry and/or Anatomy to the list of skills that count toward special move cost reduction, to smooth out much of the imbalance from the removal of JOAT. An argument was made by a dev once that Chivalry is a spellcasting skill... But, so are Bushido and Ninjitsu, and they count toward the reduction.

 

[G.v.P]

leave refresh alone.. DONT NERF TOTAL EFRESH, it is just a stupid idea...

i think its neat that a fencer can have a leafblade that will bleed and I, us fencers not use to that. kind of kool.. just imho..

Maybe weapons could have three specials at 70, 90, and 120 ;p. Keep feint AND bleed.

Har. Maybe 120 should unlock feint on EVERY weapon? ;D.

 

[SixUnder]

i sure hope they remove feint from the leafblade and keep the proposed bleed change

cet, im not disagreeing with ya

 

[funkymonkey]

Whilst we are at it, ADD back in toggled specs for mages and chiv dexxers, this will make templates more viable for well all aspects of the game.

As much as i hate it the change , the club was great for pvp dismount and shadow strike don't change that... But i can see why... :<

 

[chise2]

Specials on weapons should be tied to a timer, not mana, you can do X special every Y seconds.

Hmm I do kinda like this idea. It could maybe work of course there would have to be a lot of testing and tweaking to make sure it worked both in pvm and pvp. But ultimately I think in order to make nonmed armor more appealing *without just making it all med which I rather them not do* they are going to have to make dexxers less mana dependant. I think another poster said it perfectly when they said that warriors are glorified spellcasters *or something along those lines* With dexxers as mana dependant as they are right now it is going to be very hard to make nonmed armor really appealing. Ideas like making some nonmed armor halfmed and whatever might work too but ulimately I just think making warriors less mana dependant would be a better solution.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I like the Leafblade special move change but I think we're in the distinct minority.

I apparently am the only PvMer who uses the Leafblade without Bushido.

-Galen's player

 

[Logrus]

The main problems are that SE template Elves end up with the +20 mana AND the -10 cost reduction, just from the base skills of the template/race combo.

• Standard (pre-AoS) warriors need to be Axers with LJ & Parry, or some combination of two of (Parry, poison, or stealth) to get to 300.
• Original AoS Necro-Warriors only exist while the characters are in New Haven training (and that was the base template)
• Paladin Templates have to add another skill into their template, but most of the qualifying skills just don't fit the RP aspect of Paladin. Poison and stealth are right out. Bushido personal honor is the opposite of the Humility of what Paladins are supposed to represent. Ninjas don't really fit the compassion (they're sneaky assassins, though in some legends they were robin hood types standing up for the downtrodden. Theoretically they would be the least incompatible, without the assassin aspect). Lumberjacking really doesn't fit the mold of a chivalrous knight that well - especially if the weapon is an Executioner's axe. That pretty much leaves doubling up on a weapon skill, to go with Parry & Swords - which is an abysmal waste of template points.

So, the easiest fix would be adding Chivalry and/or Anatomy to the list of skills that count toward special move cost reduction, to smooth out much of the imbalance from the removal of JOAT. An argument was made by a dev once that Chivalry is a spellcasting skill... But, so are Bushido and Ninjitsu, and they count toward the reduction.

I think Anatomy should definitely be added to that list.

 

[SixUnder]

-Once disarmed you cannot arm again for 13 weeks, and you are banished to the life of a farmer as depicted by Dodge in the superbowl commercial.

seriosuly, almost had a accident reading this cet, that was funny :bowdown:

 

[SixUnder]

Lol.. "You cannot cast Fireball for another: 11 Seconds."

"You cannot cast Paralyze for another 87 Seconds."

"You cannot cast Flamestrike for another: 47 Seconds"


Oh my god what a horrible joke that would be.

agreed, but they seem to be modifying random things, iv never seen anyone complain about. Some of the ideas , specific ones such as refresh pots, divine fury, and others are just dumb. Leave them alone devs.