That might work for a pet whose slot is the same as it's standard spawning pet slot, but doesn't work at all for a fully leveled pet.
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OMG, an exploit was found on a live server! Surely nothing like that has ever happened to an MMO! How will UO survive?! Drama much?
There were like 6 people doing any testing and reporting on TC. With those numbers, this publish could have cooked in development for 5 years and still release with major bugs. Let's be realistic here. This is the best UO publish that came out in many years. This is not my opinion. Look at player numbers. Some bugs and balancing issues are to be expected. It appears they are being fixed as devs become aware of them. I don't think anyone could reasonably ask for more.
P.S. Anyone who has done any project management is well aware that hard deadlines are a must. Otherwise nothing ever gets done.
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I have a slightly different concern (maybe nothing since I don't know the details of the exploit). Can they reliably tell the difference between a pet generated through exploit and a pet that was tamed at a lower than usual slot (and did not slot jump)? Or a pet that had naturally high HP and Str to start with and ended up with higher than average total points?
I agree with you... I think there are some that are VERY obvious... a 2 slot Cu that is fully scrolled with resists, regens and stats is obviously bugged. But would it be so obvious if it was a 5 slot Cu with slightly higher than normal stats? How can you tell the difference between a Cu that spawns at the very high end of the stat pool and is then leveled up to one that spawned at the very low level of the pool and was then bugged and leveled up? So what about a 5 slot mare that could have been a 2 when it started instead of a 3? I know the mares can spawn with at least a 300 point swing in their strength... which is 900 training points for that single stat variance alone.
Would be hard to tell without your calculator. I messed up my first Cu by maxxing HP. So the HP/Mama/Stam is at caps. You'd have to move on to the other screens and check those. And yes, there are hundreds of points variance in pet starting points. We found 160 points on two Tsuki Wolves.
So, On some pets it will take a trained eye to spot what is normal. On others it would be easy. I and other tamers know what was possible before the exploit.
The majority of the exploit pets will have the same abilities and damage output as the non exploits. So, it doesn't affect me. Its the non popular pets that could benefit most from this. They were underpowered, so no one used them. But their damage output will be the same as the rest.
If someone has 2 capped Cus in tow, then you know somethings wrong.
They could fix this by lowering all >1 slot wild pet slots by 1 and let us start over, and then almost every pet would be the same.*
*except wild tigers, they already hit caps.
Probably, it really depends on what (if any) metrics have been slipped into UO over the last decade.
However, would you want people to continue running around with some crafted uberweapon simply because they bought it from an exploiter? Or would it be better to delete the weapon and level the field?
I'm highly skeptical of the idea that people wouldn't know what they're buying though, especially if a pet's stats were maxed. Caveat emptor.
Pets can have maxxed stats and be legit. This was a mistake I posted when taming came out. Maxxed HP/Mana/ Dex not always good.
If they have one pet they don't do more damage than a non exploit pet. They are not a better weapon.
As I typed up there I'm all for deleting the pets. I got a free Frost Dragon yesterday before I knew about the exploit (and yes I don't read the patch notes when logging in,) I didn't bother to lore it and look at it's stats cause it was free!! Now I have to check it out and see if it looks "odd". LOL
Again delete it, I'm ok with that. It's pretty and I'll miss it but oh well. Account infraction because I didn't bother to lore a free pet would be a bit harsh if it ends up being one of the pets.
If your frost dragon is just a big blue dragon, then its fine. Those spawn as 5 slots, thus pet training can't be used on them...though I guess a 4 slot one could spawn, but that would be incredibly rare.
I'd be curious if you would be so gung-ho to delete the dragon if you had paid a couple hundred million for it.
I think UO's version of "near future" is different to ours,
We're still getting guard wacked in active VvV towns and @Kyronix said that fix was in the works in 2015...
Guard wacked in VvV towns
Smoke and mirrors. Next meet and greet Mesanna is going to say pets have to be reported to GMs on a one-by-one basis.
Well I would have lored if paying that much for a pet. If lored and things looked off probably would not buy. If someone lores a pet, sees it's stats are out of the realm of what it should be for that pet and spends that much gold on it anyway.....they know it's an exploit and they also know there is a risk of it being addressed / deleted. So yes still delete it, it's not different than anything else that is being removed because of being created by an exploit.
Except... how could you tell the difference between a 3 slot pet that was bugged once then leveled up to 5 vs the 2 slot version that was leveled up normally? I'll save you the trouble of answering... you absolutely can't. A fully trained and scrolled void mare is in the hundreds of millions and you can't tell the difference.
The total stats, and things added to it would be greater than what is possible from a 2 slot. Literally a calculation.... But those pets aren't the issue, it's things that should not of been trained, that are getting 2 Free Levels added on top o f themselves.
No, a 3 slot dropped two a 2 slot then leveled and a 2 slot not dropped and leveled get the same number of training points. With the pretty large variance between naturally spawning mares you can't just add up total weight and tell a difference.
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Nox Mage Mare is really cool but if you die and poisoning drops to 99.9 poison breath etc doesn't raise it.
Needs change! -.-
Needs change! -.-
I just found a Dragon Turtle Hatchling that was a 4 slot wondering around Luna. (I had just found a loose GD at a Tukuno gate I happened to go to.) I thought maybe this was an exploited one. It had real crappy stats. So I knew it had a chance to be a real 4 slot. So, I tamed it, and set it training. I went to what was a safe place to let it sit while I read here. But, a random mob wondered in and killed me so the pet lost my consume damage and when I checked back after a thread, we were both freshly dead.
I checked his body and he had the normal gold and gems. UGH this was his first and only death. Poor little guy. He could have been a decent pet. Would have only had 800HP but I could have given him resists and some basics.
All I have done since this publish came out is look at lore screens. If I cant tell if a random pet is legit or not, then what player can? That poor little guy gave his pixel life because I doubted him. If I was sure he was a legit pet I would have waited till he bonded.
To the little guy who died because of someone else's greed...
Yes they get the same Points for training, but the total points they STARTED with is different.
Max Strength on a mare is what 525? Every 2 slot I got was under 300 Strength, so JUST in strength if you had a max strength 3 slot mare that was Glitched and trained vs a 2 slot mare that was trained there would be the difference of the point value of ~225 Strength. What is strength 3.0 Multiplier? So 775 POINTS just in strength difference between that 3 slot and a 2 slotter? Points that could be applied to mana, hp, regens, skills, etc because they didn't have to go towards strength. That's just strength. Imagine if it were say a 4.0 mare.
If you had an initial 2 slot mare and it jumped a level and you UNJUMPED that level. There is almost no difference there, but that's not what we are talking about.
Quit trying to act like it's not that big of a difference. That's like saying players with 770 skill cap wouldn't be that different from players with 720. These pets need to be deleted, especially the pets that were already 5 slot to begin with and trained.
I agree some of them are obvious, but I'd wager many of them aren't... thus making it possible that pets have been bought and sold with no way for a buyer to tell the difference.
Except it is EXACTLY what we are talking about. A mare with 300 str that spawn as a 3 then gets dropped just enough to become a 2 will be virtually indistinguishable from one that spawns with 280 str as a 2.
It's a whole lot easier to get a low 3 slot than a 2 slot. If even a few of the folks that have sold the trained void mares where abusing it in this fashion there could be quite a few pet owners out there who paid for what they thought was a 2 slot mare that technically falls under this pet "fix".
This Nightmare is built with max everything and has enough points for all scrolls and around 300 points will be left. If I scrolled it, it would do the exact same damage as any max stat nightmare out there. I could add some Hp or set the mana to 725.
I didn't even choose stats, I just grabbed the first 2 slot I saw. It is a new color.
Everything else is at caps and I'm not going to waste points on intel.
In a long fight The mana and HP does not matter as long as the HP are above 800. The mana will drop to <100 in 2 minutes and stay there.
If a person has a single exploited pet it will not produce any more damage than my single non exploited pets and it will die just as fast as mine when surrounded. That 150 more HP with 750 mana will not matter.
The caps still work. they always did.
Please explain how a nightmare with 900HP/1050 Mana or 950HP/750 Mana is better than this pet. Lessers, Cus, 2 slot Nightmares were already great pets. They already could get all scrolls and have the template above with everything Maxxed. The only thing different the exploit pets can get is max HP/Mana.
Now if someone can carry2 of these out of the stable. That's a different story. And easy to spot.
I've trained over 40 pets and used MANY scrolls. Many thanks to you..
If the exploit pets were 10% better I would be complaining like crazy.
Well, if you want to have a chat in private, I can show you what pets will be in the game if they don't delete them all, and you will understand that while we are discussing pets that only got a slight boost, there are other pets that gained 1501-4503 Points over what they should of had, and other pets that should never of been able to be trained that got boosted resists, regens, and specials that otherwise would of been impossible, and all this arguing over semantics is just distracting from the bigger picture.I've trained over 40 pets and used MANY scrolls. Many thanks to you..
Agree but those pets will only get to have the points used until caps are reached. Then they will be the same as the others. Necro and necromage didn't turn out to be useful anyway. So those abilities with a maxxed pet wont make much difference.
And a maxxed skree with mysticism wont be any better than my lesser with mysticism. A maxxed dread spider would be cool, but not game changing. And the pets that don't spawn anymore still have caps.
That cover them all. Or should I ask for a refund?
I like this dancer.
Like I said, Show me any 2 slot mare you trained and i'll show you one much better.Agree but those pets will only get to have the points used until caps are reached. Then they will be the same as the others. Necro and necromage didn't turn out to be useful anyway. So those abilities with a maxxed pet wont make much difference.
And a maxxed skree with mysticism wont be any better than my lesser with mysticism. A maxxed dread spider would be cool, but not game changing. And the pets that don't spawn anymore still have caps.
That cover them all. Or should I ask for a refund?
No, that doesn't nearly cover them all, Yes, the caps still exist, but you aren't even thinking about the pets that spawn with certain stats over the caps and what extra training on them would do. You haven't even mentioned anything 5 slot that shouldn't be trained or weighed the consequences of giving them Regens, resists, 120's, skills and abilities they shouldn't be able to. Or maybe you are okay with a 4.5 Greater with 130 Wrestling/tactics , regens, Max Resists, Armor Ignore, and Discord. Hmm?
I've had my houses burned to the ground for things that were less dangerous to UO and less profitable than these pets, It's pretty bad when even I am like. Uhhh delete them.
When they figure out how they are going to handle it, that's any easy one to spot if it is missed. But the exploit didn't give it the wrestling. And my Chiv Lesser will put up close numbers to that GD if not exceed it in some ways.
No, because the greater can also have overcapped strength on top of the overcapped skill base.
If you haven't trained a Nightmare in the past couple of days when I tried reducing a 300 odd STR 3 slot to under 300 it still classes it as a 3 slot even if on the gump it shows it as 2 slot.
It's pretty easy to distinguish mare abuse imo, weigh up the amount of STR/INT it has and if it's over 800 hp then it's wrong. The only way possible to get over 800HP is if you left the regen's/skill caps alone but leaving both are a huge nerf to a pet. Then after they delete/fix those doesn't matter if they leave the ones with 50-+ more hp than they should doesn't make notable difference.
@King Greg really you can train a GD like that now with the current system? my mate will be pleased if this is true ^^ edit - oh on 2nd read a 4.5 GD? that's release tame isn't it :/
It's pretty easy to distinguish mare abuse imo, weigh up the amount of STR/INT it has and if it's over 800 hp then it's wrong. The only way possible to get over 800HP is if you left the regen's/skill caps alone but leaving both are a huge nerf to a pet. Then after they delete/fix those doesn't matter if they leave the ones with 50-+ more hp than they should doesn't make notable difference.
@King Greg really you can train a GD like that now with the current system? my mate will be pleased if this is true ^^ edit - oh on 2nd read a 4.5 GD? that's release tame isn't it :/
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A 2 slot Nightmare easily can get 800HP. With scrolls and regens. 800Hp is 2400 points. 3 trainings get 4500 points. You have 2100 points left. And that assumes the mare started at 0 HP.
I think you are confused on caps.
This page will help you. Animal Training – Ultima Online
There are 2 caps associated with the first lore screen:
- Strength, Dexterity & Intelligence: 2300
- Hit Point, Stamina & Mana: 3300
- Strength 3.0x
- Dexterity 0.1x
- Intelligence 0.5x
- Hit Points 3.0x
- Stamina 0.5x
- Mana 0.5x
This is exactly what I mean. People are going to be spreading complete falsehoods. The most common pets used are the ones that can get 800HP and 700Str. That's why we choose those!!!
We chose 800HP because that is the amount that works for a casual tamer.
You can find a basic template here: Generic Starter Template For Cu like pets. It includes the pets that can get 800HP There are many more because I hadn't trained everything by May.
scrolls for nightmare is 780 points.
HP from let's say average 300 > 800 is 1500
resists 500 (average)
STR ... 280 > 700 is 1260
Total so far 4040 points + base damage/dex/stamina = roughly 4100 so far.
HP regen 20 360
Mana reg 30 360
Intelligence 500 (worked out to be essential mana regen for most pets) , from 125 average to 500 = 187, ideally you want 700 INT because he's a mage and it gives addiontal mana regen + sdi
Skills, i seriously suggest poisoning for mare to add to magery poison + an aoe because magery does zero aoe.
So an "easy" 800 HP is gimping itself, if you don't have HP regen in hard places you'll have to babysit, if you gimp him on mana regen and intelligence what is the point of it learning magery + dragon breath is a nerf to any pet that's current health is not 900+ HP damage + mana sink (if you have a mare with 125 int and barely any mana regen that is a joke). and no skills besides magery and dragon breath? boring + bad champ clearing and bad in general.
So back to the dev's fixing mares yes it is easy, just delete the ones with around or more than 800 HP because there is no point in a mare with that figure of HP, it's either the people who made a mistake on animal training for the reasons I stated or it's the guys who exploited.
HP from let's say average 300 > 800 is 1500
resists 500 (average)
STR ... 280 > 700 is 1260
Total so far 4040 points + base damage/dex/stamina = roughly 4100 so far.
HP regen 20 360
Mana reg 30 360
Intelligence 500 (worked out to be essential mana regen for most pets) , from 125 average to 500 = 187, ideally you want 700 INT because he's a mage and it gives addiontal mana regen + sdi
Skills, i seriously suggest poisoning for mare to add to magery poison + an aoe because magery does zero aoe.
So an "easy" 800 HP is gimping itself, if you don't have HP regen in hard places you'll have to babysit, if you gimp him on mana regen and intelligence what is the point of it learning magery + dragon breath is a nerf to any pet that's current health is not 900+ HP damage + mana sink (if you have a mare with 125 int and barely any mana regen that is a joke). and no skills besides magery and dragon breath? boring + bad champ clearing and bad in general.
So back to the dev's fixing mares yes it is easy, just delete the ones with around or more than 800 HP because there is no point in a mare with that figure of HP, it's either the people who made a mistake on animal training for the reasons I stated or it's the guys who exploited.
Is this a Legit pet? What is it? Hint, it has a full round of taming that can be done. Will get 1501 more points. OMG report this pet immediately!
Of course it is. It is a fresh tamed Dragon Wolf.
They have overcapped strength. How many have you seen used in a fight?
/sarcasm This pet should be banned its too OP!!!! /sarcasm
It is a 4>5 pet. Overcapped strength does not make a pet OP. Cold drakes can be found with >120 wrestling and Tactics. They are 3>5. Why don't we see everyone running around with
Dragon Wolfs and cold drakes?
Of course it is. It is a fresh tamed Dragon Wolf.
They have overcapped strength. How many have you seen used in a fight?
/sarcasm This pet should be banned its too OP!!!! /sarcasm
It is a 4>5 pet. Overcapped strength does not make a pet OP. Cold drakes can be found with >120 wrestling and Tactics. They are 3>5. Why don't we see everyone running around with
Dragon Wolfs and cold drakes?
You don't need HP regen if you use Consume Damage. And a 120 focus and 120 Meditation along with 30 regen will allow it to regen better than wasted points in intel. A Nightmare with any amount of mana will have <100 mana in two minutes of fighting.
Sure if you waste points in intel you wont get 800HP. If intel is so great, why don't you see very many serpentine dragons?
I just happen to be on a high intel pet right now.
Wow I'm glad I used those Intel points... its only in my stable because it has a pretty color.
Live and learn Grasshopper.
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There is no point in rolling a mare if you have intel 125 mana 125 and no additional skills, i'll say that to anyone and not everyone has real taming/primer lvl 3. I consider real taming a waste of points
Oh no that wont work at all, you see, not everyone can afford to scroll out to 120 in all mare skills and/or uses the same stat spread as you think they should.
I have hp and mr maxed WITH 900 hp and 700 int and drumrollll................ 378 str (why? the int helps mr, sdi, and most importantly, mindblast with the mastery.
And the hp helps with dragon breath!
He is 115 or 110 in skills and does just fine.
Cheers.
My real is 108.1. You don't need the 120 to use the level III masteries. My archer gets all the warriors gift bonuses at 110 points. You just need the level 3 primer. I also thought you had to have real 120 skill to use them but you don't.
But the taming one has always been expensive.
That's the best thing about the Pet Revamp. We can try different things and have fun while doing it.
Yes, it is, and they shouldn't exist.
LMFAO so Pawain, the guy who has been complaining like mad in PVP-related threads about toning down certain pets, has been exploiting what is clearly a bug to overpower said pets...and it turns out the bonus of this bug (maxed out skills/HP/mana) would have the biggest affect in PVP...and he's now arguing that bugged pets shouldn't be deleted.
So glad the true agenda here has been revealed.
I'm sure you were arguing to keep 45+, uninterruptible holy fists too.
So glad the true agenda here has been revealed.
I'm sure you were arguing to keep 45+, uninterruptible holy fists too.
You don't read very well. I have not exploited any bugs. You cant post pics of exploits here. All the things I show you already exist and can be found when you tame a pet. If you no tice, I keep arguing that my pets have the same damage output as the
exploited pets. Because that's why we built them. To kill stuff! The exploit pets only have 100 - 200 more HP and more mana. Greg keeps talking about a dragon he has seen. I'm talking about the other 99% of pets out there.
My agenda: The devs up all the pets to near maxx stats. Id love to be able to use a Skree, Tsuki, Ram, Ki rin, dread spider. Start those pets at a slot lower and they can compete with the non exploit builds.
I don't care. I have my good pets already made before I heard of the exploit. I really doubt they can find the exploited pets. But, maybe they will set them back to their original build.
I am arguing that the average player wont know which are exploits and which are not. I don't want to have other players running around being the pet cops.
I'm in the game now having fun. then I afk and post. then go back, kill some stuff. then come here.
PvP: How many pets are killing you right now. I'm fine if pets cant agro on players Fel. But, the scrolls are there, why cant a tamer get them? With 50% damage reduction pets wont give you an owie and you can still attack people who just want to play a game and have fun.
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** goes out an tames a bunch of Gorillas **
I question why you are fighting so adamantly that these pets need to not be fixed then if you haven't exploited any. And So far you are the only one who is in here trying to defend that a free 500 HP worth of training isn't a big difference in a pet. Remember the value difference between say a 4.5 Greater dragon and a 4.7 Greater? Note that I am still not referring to pets that were de leveled that jumped a level because those wouldn't even be effected by this. I am referring to exploited pets that got a quantifiable advantage over the current and 5 slot pets that shouldn't of been trained at all.
They either need to fix them in some way, or just make it a feature and give everyone the equal opportunity. But I guarantee that one pet will become the new greater dragon if they just make this de leveling a feature.
HP cap is 1100. The difference between 800 and 1100 is not 500.... with 1100 HP you can only have 0 stam and 0 Mana.
I am only talking about pets like Lessers, Cus, Hiryus, etc. The ones normally trained. Like I have said, they got more HP/Mana. But the caps stop what you can do. 900HP gives 1050 Mana 950HP gives 750 Mana. One of my lesser is fully scrolled and has 900 HP. I'm sorry but that 50 HP is not a game changer. And mine does fine with 600 Mana.
If they fix it that's great. But there are still a bunch of pets that need more points to be usable.
{plug}
