Understanding Your Fellow Players

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

There has been a lot of discussion recently surrounding PvP. The recent event had a portion of it that took place in Felucca...and this caused a bit of a stir in the posters here at UHall.

Having played UO since its inception, I have played almost all aspects of the game (PvM, PvP, crafting, RP, etc.) But the purpose of this thread is because I want to understand better the people that play UO, and I want to understand why it is they do or do not like PvP.

I am asking that this thread not devolve into some name calling thread. I am asking this question solely for the purpose of gaining a better understanding of the playerbase.

So, the question at hand is:

What is the reason that you do not like PvP in UO?

I realize that not everyone wants to answer this question in the open, so I have created a poll (yes, I know...).

The poll question answers are by no means meant to be the only valid answers to the question.

But, if you are going to select the last option, please explain...otherwise, no understanding is gained.

 

[Viper09]

Hmm, shouldn't this thread be called:

Why do you not PvP?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

My current understanding of the subject is different than what it was just a month ago.

Originally, I assumed that most people that don't like PvP (Trammies) felt that way because they were afraid.

Since then, I have read a few responses that got me thinking here...and I think I have a little better understanding of the issue.

From what I have been able to gather, a good deal of non-PvP'ers are so because they don't like unknowns being introduced into their experience. For example: The player goes to fight Lich Lords. While fighting Lich Lords, a PK shows up. This removes the choice of the player to do what he or she had originally set out to do, and now forces them to either engage in PvP...which they had no intention of doing, and are possibly not properly equipped for, or leaving the area they wanted to hunt in.

So in this particular case, it is not so much that the player that was going out to hunt Lich Lords fears the PK...but rather, he or she is inconvenienced by the PK.

Is this accurate?


I hear people say "I don't PvP because I don't enjoy it"...but my question is, why don't you enjoy it? What is it about PvP that makes you not want to engage in it?

There are activities that we all like or don't like, but I think that if we really look at why we don't like certain activities, we can uncover the reasons for our aversion...and gain a better understanding of those that feel differently.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Hmm, shouldn't this thread be called:

Why do you not PvP?

I'd say no, because there are options in the poll for players that PvP, or at least don't hate it per se.

But since you mention it, PvPers are welcome to post why they PvP as well...as long as the smack talk stays at a minimum.

 

[Derium of ls]

"I do not PvP and I don't think any of the reasons above apply to me."

that is mine, All I did was PvP day in and day out. AoS killed it for me. I felt it was no longer skill based, all item based.


(no this is NOT a classic shard plug, it's the truth).

 

[Guido_LS]

I do not PvP because I have had 3 carpal tunnel operations done (2 on the left, one on the right) and I have arthritis in the right hand now. If not for the N52 and G11, I wouldn't be playing at all.

And the best PvP'ers aren't a bunch of macro pushers. And I don't do anything to be 2nd best. So I don't participate.

Which group of subhumans does that put me in in your little categorization of people, Morgana?

 

[Penderrin]

This poll made me lmao.

How about there are many aspects of this game and people play what they enjoy. Why does there have to be the BIG reason why they do not choose to participate in one small piece.

I don't understand crafters and especially the BODs. Some of them do nothing but. Is it fear of the unknown why they dont? No

And not everyone is here for gains and to have everything or dominate.

But myself, I like the social aspect of UO and working as a team, but NOT working to hard(the key here). I want to just BS and relax. I don't play for challenge and don't need it. This is my getaway. So I mainly just do peerless where I hit a few macros and mostly just run my mouth without much attention to the game.

When I do want to compete and a challenge... Ima old school TFC addict too! Now there you need Mad Skillz, which I dont have but have fun anyway.

 

[UOKaiser]

"I do not PvP and I don't think any of the reasons above apply to me."
Is mines.
Reason for me is simple. I used to in the begining of Uo to survive but this didn't interest me. After trammel introduced I found my perfect playground so packed up my stuff and moved. But left a small tower near minoc as it was my first home. I still fought when people wanted to do champ spawns also to get daily rares in fel those used to be morning challenges and competition to get them especialy for the tall candles . Also to lure pk miners into traps by having a lone miner shovel in the middle of popular spots then when the lone pk miner comes by ambushed then repeat.
But other than that my true challenges came in things that enlighten my mind how to defeat large creatures or how to outcompete my fellow vender using yearly long and multi year mind tactics to out price and out win them. The fun in that and the quietness of doing my own own goals without being interrupted was much better than just killing some guy and have him get back up in a few minutes to do it all over again.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

If not for the N52 and G11, I wouldn't be playing at all.

Which group of subhumans does that put me in in your little categorization of people, Morgana?

I guess the same one I am in because I use an N52te as well

So in your case, you don't PvP because you are concerned that you cannot compete, for physical reason?

Nothing wrong with that...I am just making sure I understand.

And there is no need to get into the whole "subhuman" thing. This is just a friendly thread to help people better understand one another. If you make it negative, it will turn negative...so don't.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The fun in that and the quietness of doing my own own goals without being interrupted was much better than just killing some guy and have him get back up in a few minutes to do it all over again.

So for you, it's more about not having to conform to what someone else wants to do?

As in, you want to play at your own pace, and do what you want to do without worrying about someone coming along and changing that plan?

Make sense to me, if I understand it right.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

"I do not PvP and I don't think any of the reasons above apply to me."

that is mine, All I did was PvP day in and day out. AoS killed it for me. I felt it was no longer skill based, all item based.

So in your case, it's the mechanics of PvP, specifically the fact that it relies too heavily on items now?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Also, for the record, I chose option 2.

I rarely PvP anymore. I would if I had to, but I wouldn't just for fun. I used to see a point in it when there were 'good' and 'evil' players, but now, PvP to me seems pointless. It's almost like a first person shooter or something. There are no real consequences for dying anymore, and so you can kill the same player over and over, and they just rez up and come back and fight some more.

This, to me, is not what PvP in this game was supposed to be about. Death in PvP was supposed to be more...consequential...than it has become. I guess at the point that it became inconsequential, it lost a lot of its meaning for me.

 

[UOKaiser]

So for you, it's more about not having to conform to what someone else wants to do?

As in, you want to play at your own pace, and do what you want to do without worrying about someone coming along and changing that plan?

Make sense to me, if I understand it right.

I guess that sounds about right. My own path with full control in my hands. Probably why I like UO so much because it's or was a sandbox game. If my goal was to kill a person then I guess PVP would be my activity. But pleasure in that is fleeting for me and leaves me empty inside so I prefer not to engage in that type of warfare. I do have fun sparring occasionaly though probably because is on mutual terms.

 

[Penderrin]

Actually come to think of it, I dont pvp because my friends don't. If they all wanted to go do some, Id surely be in.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Actually come to think of it, I dont pvp because my friends don't. If they all wanted to go do some, I surely be in.

Interesting. This is an aspect I had not considered.

Thanks!

 

[Borric]

But, to be honest, the main reason I dont like pvp is the person behind the keyboard. I can not consciously cause grief to another human. Not "griefing", but I think you get my meaning.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

I enjoy pvp, but...

Long list of excuses: Well trammel was formed so I pvm'ed a lot trying to get a better suit. Then I haven't since the guild I was in died out and players left the game. Then my suit and weapons were crap. Then I would only get ganked. Then it gets boring going to Yew to pvp. Then I can't do spawns on my own. Then where are all my friends??? Now, hey why not make this sampire to get leggings or whatever. Then hey got to train this swampy. Oh, hey you want a suit sure I'll make that for you...3k leather later still making sets to try to enhance for 140 luck.

Well, that wasn't on your list so I thought I would be honest. Oh and my swampy is now 78 resist...out in deep waters training the swampy...umm, yes friend I'm still working on your luck suit...just not this second.

-Lorax

 

[Penderrin]

PvP doesn't have to be about giving grief. Its not necessary to attack unwilling players.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Well, that wasn't on your list so I thought I would be honest.

Thanks!

Like I said in the original post, the list is not meant to be exclusive.

 

[Viper09]

PvP doesn't have to be about giving grief. Its not necessary to attack unwilling players.

Indeed. As most PvP in fel is consensual. If you go for PvP with others who are also looking for PvP it is not griefing.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

But, to be honest, the main reason I dont like pvp is the person behind the keyboard. I can not consciously cause grief to another human. Not "griefing", but I think you get my meaning.

Would you feel that way if the encounter were 100% consensual? As in, a friend, or someone you know, asked you to fight them just to see who would win, etc?

 

[Tina Small]

For lack of a better choice, I picked the one that says I don't PvP because I don't feel I can compete at it.

As I've explained to you before, Morgana, I'm playing on a laptop computer that is several years old. I use a mouse. But for the first four years I played UO, I didn't even use a mouse. I used the laptop's touch pad. I finally got a mouse and made myself learn how to use it to play UO.

I'm also OLD and I know my reaction time isn't the same as someone who's 20-30 years younger than me. I've also got just about every possible keyboard combination I can set up on this laptop already assigned to some macro and just don't see how I can squeeze in anymore for things like PvP spell combos or things like dismounting, getting off a shot and remounting without investing in some additional hardware. Since I already spend enough money on this game and don't really have the desk space for an additional keyboard and no desire to plunk more money into buying a monitor and stashing the laptop under it to clear up desk space, I'm pretty much stuck with the setup I have. I function just fine in UO doing what I enjoy doing, but know that what I have just wouldn't cut it for really getting into PvP.

So, because I have sub-par equipment and old-lady slow reflexes, yeah I don't really have much of an interest in participating in a lot of PvP. I know I'd be staring at a gray screen most of the time asking myself what the heck just happened and trying to figure out if there's any way I could have reacted faster the next time around. At my age and based on the little amount of time I have to play anymore, it just doesn't seem worth it. Today I started wearing my first pair of trifocals. Who knows...in two months maybe the doctor will tell me I also need a hearing aid. Clearly, I'm in no condition to be PvPing.....it might make me need a pacemaker and that's really something I can't afford right now.



I hope this makes sense to you, Morgana. Yes, I know there are probably plenty of 50-somethings who do PvP. But they probably got started with it a long time ago and maybe even have kids to sit next to them and give them pointers along the way. I don't. My daughter has no interest in UO and my oldest grandson's only 5, far too young to be playing UO.

If I was younger and could pour more money into my computer equipment, I'd love to learn to PvP. The closest I get to it now is sneaking around once in a while on a faction thief or going out on an archer in the company of several guildmates who are very good at PvPing. I get in a few shots and maybe once in a blue blue moon might even get the kill shot. But it's rare and unexpected. I don't have a problem with someone else clobbering my characters. Heck, when I play my faction thieves, I always figure it's almost guaranteed it will happen. And the smack talk is what it is. The cheating also puts a damper on the little bit of interest I have in learning to PvP, but the major disincentive for me is just plain not having good equipment for it and knowing that even if I did, I'd probably still be terrible at it because I don't react as fast as someone younger and more experienced than I am.

Another thing that keeps me from becoming very interested in PvP is the cost to acquire decent gear and/or power and stat scrolls. I've been around enough PvPers the last couple of years to understand that there's always some new tactic or gimmick that people are using that make it worthwhile, if you can afford it, to acquire new weapons or change around your skills or modify your suit. I just don't have the gold to do it and I'm not about to use real life money to buy it from brokers. I'm content at this point to stick mostly to PvM and continue to use the crappy old suits my characters already have and maybe someday improve them ever so slightly if I ever get some artificers trained up. I don't care about collecting stuff to sell or running merchants. Whatever gold I make these days comes strictly from going out and hunting, and I seem to do less and less of that every week.

So, if you made it through reading all this, good for you. If not, I guess I'll just expect yet another summary from you that says people like me don't PvP because we're cowards. If that's what happens, I swear this will be the last time I attempt to explain to you my lack of interest in UO PvP.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So, if you made it through reading all this, good for you. If not, I guess I'll just expect yet another summary from you that says people like me don't PvP because we're cowards. If that's what happens, I swear this will be the last time I attempt to explain to you my lack of interest in UO PvP.

Your explanation makes perfect sense to me...and I can understand where you are coming from, especially about the gear.

This thread is helping me to understand better, and that's what I was looking for. Thank you for the honest answers.

 

[Lady Laurel]

I do not PvP and I don't think any of the reasons above apply to me.

This is my answer as well. For me it is a couple of reasons. I started right before tram, within a month or so. My first house was in fel trinsic swamp. I have never really done much PvP, except to survive, which I never did, LOL, I really bite at PvP. I still have a house in Fel and always will (though I also have homes in Malas, Tokuno and Tram, and probably always will, as well). I did not mind the PvP for quite some time, but unfortunately the majority of PvP'ers that I have dealt with all seemed to be trash talking, punk kids that I just dont want to deal with. I am too old for that and would rather not deal with it in a game that I play for enjoyment and relaxation. I know that not all Pvp'ers are like that, and I am in no way trying to say they are. Just that has been my experiences. I also know that there are people like that on the other facets, but I have not come across as many that are not Pvp'ers.

It also really bothers me that "Trammie" is used as a put down, an insult, just because I do not choose to PvP. Especially from those that are sitting in Tram (or other similar facets) for hours every day trash talking "trammies".

 

[Borric]

Would you feel that way if the encounter were 100% consensual? As in, a friend, or someone you know, asked you to fight them just to see who would win, etc?

Yes, I would indeed duel a friend. I am in a guild where folks are always asking to duel. Sometimes I do, sometimes not. We even tried to have some battles between the guild im in and another "allied" guild. Ill bet you can guess what happened.

Most of my pvp came before the tram/fel split sooo I am kind of jaded about UO's pvp now. I didnt want to say this before but...lolol. WOW has a great pvp system. You know exactly what you are getting into. There are no gankings and such. Your team can be out numbered in the battlegrounds, but not in the arenas. I like the idea behind pvp in WOW, balance and equality.

For the record, I no longer play WOW. Its just so much...fluff.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I do not PvP and I don't think any of the reasons above apply to me.

This is my answer as well. For me it is a couple of reasons. I started right before tram, within a month or so. My first house was in fel trinsic swamp. I have never really done much PvP, except to survive, which I never did, LOL, I really bite at PvP. I still have a house in Fel and always will (though I also have homes in Malas, Tokuno and Tram, and probably always will, as well). I did not mind the PvP for quite some time, but unfortunately the majority of PvP'ers that I have dealt with all seemed to be trash talking, punk kids that I just dont want to deal with. I am too old for that and would rather not deal with it in a game that I play for enjoyment and relaxation. I know that not all Pvp'ers are like that, and I am in no way trying to say they are. Just that has been my experiences. I also know that there are people like that on the other facets, but I have not come across as many that are not Pvp'ers.

It also really bothers me that "Trammie" is used as a put down, an insult, just because I do not choose to PvP. Especially from those that are sitting in Tram (or other similar facets) for hours every day trash talking "trammies".

To me, it sounds like you have a few reasons for not enjoying PvP...not just one...but primarily, it sounds like an aversion that stems from the fact that you died in PvP a lot prior to Trammel and got sick of it. It sounds also like there is some resentment built up there as well, as evidenced by taking exception to insults like "trammie".

I think what you are saying is more common than a lot of players, especially old school vets like yourself, care to admit. The open PvP model of old UO was very frustrating to some people...and with good reason.

Thank you for the honest and open answers! I think your response has opened up a new avenue of thought on the subject for me. There are definitely players that harbor some ill will from the old days.

 

[Penderrin]

but unfortunately the majority of PvP'ers that I have dealt with all seemed to be trash talking, punk kids that I just dont want to deal with.

I can also agree with this one. I turn off my general chat often because of the spam and verbal attacks I hear. Its often just down right wrong and a person would get knocked the **** out, if not shot, if they spouted it beyond the virtual world. So I can definitely see that turning people away from the pvp game.

 

[OldAsTheHills]

There is no quid pro quo...

The lack of talking or interplay leading up to a fight is missing.

Kill on sight is the paradigm of most pvpers. Some pvpers serve
a role in the game and do not kill every day, hour, minute, but
have reasons to act and only kill when provoked!

I was force to do Avoidance strategy so that I can continue to play.
Really, try doing anything in the game and get interrupted continuously
just to give the pvper his/her thrill. I do know when pvpers come online...
I can adjust my time and place of my activities inside the game.

The greatest way to punish Pvpers is to not play with them!
Some people will never obtain interplay from me due to past actions.
Once I determine there is no social contract of mutual play...the game
is over with.

Try going to the Forge forum and read up on Game Theory Behavior.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

 

[Lady Laurel]

it sounds like an aversion that stems from the fact that you died in PvP a lot prior to Trammel and got sick of it. It sounds also like there is some resentment built up there as well, as evidenced by taking exception to insults like "trammie".

I did not die alot, as I did not get attacked too much. I got attacked more after trammel than before. And it doesnt bother me that I die, I did not say I was sick of deaths, it is the punk ass kid/trash talking. And I dont mean just regular razzing, I am talking about the hardcore nastyness that I see so much.

As far as the insult "Trammie", I do not personally believe it should be an insult, it is a place someone lives, just like saying American, Canadian, German, etc. The only resentment built up about that is that I do not believe that anyone should be insulted for where they live, or the play-style they choose.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I did not die alot, as I did not get attacked too much. I got attacked more after trammel than before. And it doesnt bother me that I die, I did not say I was sick of deaths, it is the punk ass kid/trash talking. And I dont mean just regular razzing, I am talking about the hardcore nastyness that I see so much.

Fair enough, I might have misunderstood a part of your original post where you said

I have never really done much PvP, except to survive, which I never did

I took that to mean that you died on most PvP encounters.

So it's more about the attitudes exhibited by the PvPers?

As far as the insult "Trammie", I do not personally believe it should be an insult, it is a place someone lives, just like saying American, Canadian, German, etc. The only resentment built up about that is that I do not believe that anyone should be insulted for where they live, or the play-style they choose.

I think the whole "Trammie" "Carebear" thing was the result of PKs that were angry at the developers for introducing Trammel, and essentially ending their playstyle. Instead of turning their anger against the devs (and a lot of them did as I recall), many turned their anger against the players that went to Trammel. So in many cases, I see people throwing the word "Trammie" out as an insult because they are actually frustrated about something else (the change in the rules of the game). I try to avoid using Trammie or Carebear to describe people that play primarily in a Trammel ruleset. Mostly because I primarily play in a Trammel ruleset currently.

I think a lot of the resentment people have, on both sides, could have been avoided if the devs of that time had taken a different approach than segregation.

 

[Derium of ls]

So in your case, it's the mechanics of PvP, specifically the fact that it relies too heavily on items now?

100% correct. I enjoyed PvP a lot. Even the new spells and such ruined it for me. Before it was very simple to PvP but still very fun and skillful.

 

[Lord Chaos]

I don't PvP because it brings no joy, it brings no rewards and mostly only brings loss. Not to mention my connection doesn't lend itself to PvP very well and using the classic clients without cheats certainly doesn't help when PvPing against experienced PvPers in the EC.

 

[Demonous]

ive been playing UO for about 10 years now, at one time I was a hardcore pvper and would fight people at the gate, idocs, raid spawns, defend spawns etc 24/7, this lasted for probably 5 years, I was and still am pretty good at pvp, although i don't like to change my template much and still have the same basic template since getting rid of lumberjacking and picking up chivalry since aos.

Nowadays, i don't feel the need to pvp as much, i kind of burnt it out doing so much and it doesn't appeal to me as much. I pvp when im forced to pretty much, if im doing a spawn and get raided then im forced to defend but i don't go out raiding spawns or pking random people. I will still kill people i find at idocs, it annoys me greatly when people that can't pvp have the nerve to be at an idoc in felucca so i feel the need to do something about it. I do have a pvp event every other week on my shard, basic dueling and team battles which turns out pretty well and helps people learn the basics if they don't know them.

Most pvpers spam apples and pots these days which i don't believe in doing so i choose not too, it does get me killed not doing this on some of my characters but i like the idea of being a legit pvper and being able to kill people without using things like that. I also consider a wooden trapped box to be an exploit allowing someone to not need the skill resisting spells so i do not use one. These days people have mysticism and i don't pvp enough to know what the spells do so they hurt a lot, especially that one spell that heals/cures/removes curse i feel is very overpowered.

For the most part, I am content with being a rare collector and knowing that i can still pvp very well and hold my ground for the most part and kill a lot of people when need be, but my glory days in pvp are behind me and i am glad that people recognized me as a great pvper once upon a time. I stick with my disarm, bleed, ai strategy and it works well except for the people that remove mortal over and over then i just keep bleeding them which works well too. I don't need a cheezy template, just a basic old school one to get the job done. I really believe in earning a kill the tough and legit way rather than taking advantage of some overpowered thing that needs a big nerf.

 

[Theo_GL]

You ought to add some other reasons.

I do not PvP because I find no interest or satisfaction in killing other players.


That describes me. I would rather play a co-operative game than one killing each other. It serves no purpose. I get no satisfaction from killing another player and they just rez and come back again. There is no purpose.

I am extremely competitive and like competition but not killing others.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I do not PvP and I don't think any of the reasons above apply to me.

I assume you mean PvP in Felucca? That's why I selected the last option.

I do like PvP very much, but not under the current PvP rules in Felucca that encourage griefing and mass murdering. I also dislike the great number of "loopholes" that makes PvP a joke (like auto-chug potion macros, trapped boxes, enchanted apples and such crap). I mostly PvP in guild wars where we have certain rules to prevent that.

 

[ColterDC]

1. I do not PvP due to the cheating that goes on. This is also the reason I quit playing UO, the unchecked cheating that occurs in every aspect of this game. I still lurk and am waiting to see if EA delivers on their promise to remove speedhacking and scripting. If they do I will be the first to reup.

2. PvP also lost my interest when it became less about personal skill and more about the amount of **** you carried in your backpack and also when everyone started playing the same 3-4 overpowered templates, which became even worse with the introduction of soulstones.

P.S. My ideal UO would be classic shard (anytime PreAos really) that was more importantly cheat free.

 

[Alezi]

There's pretty much 3 big points why people generally avoid PvP.

1. Cheating
2. Gear difference
3. Being unable to compete

Solution to number 1 = Implement anti-cheat
Solution to number 2 = Stygian Abyss + Imbuing
Solution to number 3 = Find a guild - fight with bigger numbers.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I'm in the 'I don't enjoy it' group. I did try, I was awful at it, neither my brain nor my fingers are fast enough, but the main reason I gave up trying was I didn't like it.
I really am, with no insults intended or taken, a 'care bear' I care about people and don't like making them unhappy or angry. I didn't get any 'adrenaline rush', just panic, uncertainty and regret.

I don't avoid Fel, heck I play on Siege, it's ALL Fel, but if I get into a conflict situation I just die, pick myself up and carry on. Fighting back is not an option.

I don't mind dying, I don't mind being looted. The thing that gets to me is the childish gloating and griefing after I've died. That rarely happens on Siege, which is why I happily play there without worrying that I'm going to die sometimes.

 

[Aurelius]

When I began playing UO, you pretty much had to be involved in some form of PvP since pre-Trammel, if you left a town all things were possible, and I found I really did not enjoy that part of the game at all.

I'm simply not 'competitive' in the sense of enjoying direct battles against other characters (within UO I can't figure out what, if anything, I'm 'competitive' about). Although not a 'hardcore' roleplayer, character death constantly and repeatedly simply makes no sense to me at all, but that's the almost guaranteed result of PvP for somebody. It's not just about my characters dying either, I really dislike killing off others too, even if they are happy when it happens I am not.

Another reason I don't become involved in Fel, or Factions, and by extension PvP, is the attitudes and actions of too many of the participants. Fel does a really, really good impersonation of an inner city slum at pub closing time. Why would I ever want to go there? The opportunity to disrupt someone else's playstyle is grabbed at by some who simply want to cause upset, for no other reason than they can. You gain nothing from reskilling, or trash talking, apart from a feeling of superiority over some other pretend character in a game, but that's enough reason for some people to do it. Recently, several of the PvP contingent have brought their mindless bragging and constant obscenity across the general chat channels too - clear sign that it's about the ego, not the fight or the 'skill'.....

As for the argument 'I should learn PvP and beat them', that's nonsense, if they don't care about their characters dying, and they get their kicks simply disrupting what others are doing - why would I ever want to help them have their version of 'fun' at the expense of mine? I avoid people like that in real life when I can, the idea of paying to spend recreation time in a game where I get to meet them seems crazy.

For those who enjoy it - Fel's great, Factions are fun, Siege is fascinating, have a blast playing them and do whatever makes you happy with those other consenting adults wherever you are. For me, pretty much everything that makes UO fun I can do fine without getting involved in PvP. I do want there to be a strong, enjoyable PvP side to the game, since for me the biggest strength of UO is that it allows almost every playstyle conceivable, and having more and different types of players involved helps the overall game, but participating in it has no appeal for me.

Now, were there a properly policed and managed RP server, where PvP was an important element, I might possibly give it a try, but even then it would take a lot of persuading - and there's no chance at all of EA ever resourcing proper RP servers

 

[Gelf]

personally i lost interest in pvp and rarely do so anymore. To explain, i tend to think of gaming as two extremes. one being the sandbox type(not necessarily RP) where the journey,so to speak, is the fun part. two being video gamer type where its more about becoming king of the hill,so to speak.

myself i prefer the sandbox type, and whether this includes pvp is not an issue for me. however pvp in UO seems to be pushing more and more to the second extreme, which doesn't really interest me. I've Noticed pvm seems to be headed to the second extreme,as well, just not as quickly as pvp.

Not certain if you will understand any of my explanation,but you asked for one.

 

[Vaelix]

I enjoy pvp for the same reason i play any other game that involves fighting between actual players..

1. Its fun to put yourself up against Something that can think independently and isnt subject to Code or AI. ( AI Controlled Monsters / Ect )

2. I have a Competitive personallity.

3. I enjoy Challenges and having to "Think on my Feet" Based on the Actions and decisions of others.

4. Chaotic Situations are a Blast.. Compared to basically 100% Controlled PvM Situations.

5. With the Introduction of Imbuing / Faction Armor PvP has become fairly balanced (With the exception of a few skills [Based on Opinion of course])

 

[Venus_AUPK]

I ONLY PLAY FOR PVP

 

[Violence]

"I enjoy PVP". That's my choice, however that doesn't mean I am allright with cheating. When I returned after a long time off Ultima Online -- as I had quit solely due to cheating -- I was glad to find only a couple of known culprits at best, on my shard. Lately I noticed a couple more have made a return and I am seriously considering leaving again depending on what EA/M's next move will be in June, but as far as legitimate fighting as I said I've activated my account and I enjoy PVP almost daily.

I would like to add that as far as the people I know from the various guilds I've joined or created throughout my PVP experiences, none was ever intent on causing grief or panicking their targets, none ever had a magical way to detect who's got an old computer, a bad hand, or anything else and I do feel for the people in tight real life situations but, you know, this is where I have to say "It's only a game" and unfortunately those who cannot, or will not accept every single part of it should probably not play not because of health problems but because of attitude problems mostly in this case. Maybe I was lucky and I have been meeting the right friends, who happen to actually be quite the opposite of a Trammel player's "image" of a PVPer.
I believe they would allow me the liberty to speak for them too when I say that what we were and still are intent on, is simply fighting and winning against Human opponents that consent to becoming possible targets just like everyone else in Felucca- PVPers and Trammel players alike.
That is all.

Furthermore there is no serious reason other than spite or hurt feelings for this play-style to be punished by any extra permanent loss than the Trammel play-style(the Factions system is another story).
And death should also not be any more permanent or time-consuming than it is for the Trammel side as everyone I've ever met never liked games that force you to sit and wait for no other reason except for the way you play a game(which you pay for the same amount of money as any other style) within its own rules, before getting back into it.

On both sides there are those who give their respective styles negative reputation. On both sides there are scammers, griefers, cheaters and so on. The only difference is that PVPers see player fights as the end-game along with generally preferring a Human opponent over the AI ones.

No matter how much the game changes in terms of skills or items I'll always PVP. Close in-game(or other-wise) friends are not the reason I got myself into it and won't be the reason I leave if I do. They may however at a point be the reason I will never return to Ultima in general but that's another story.

I have no intention to "..be the best..", I just like fighting. Can't really say I take anything in the game personally at least to the extent of feeling griefed just because I have died. As far as others are concerned though their sensitivity on this is not my problem really, I do not play nor pay for them and they make their choice when they enter PVP areas. I am not there to punish anyone personally, I am there to kill everything in sight if I can. That's what I like to do in this game. If that makes me a bully to other players' eyes, I can live with it. I seldom ever trash-talk, though I'll always express my opinion on someone's abilities in PVP in as a funny or sarcastic way as possible- Get over it, we're grown-ups. We can afford to brag when we get a kill in a game without feeling we're griefing anyone to be honest. And seriously, I never asked anyone's opinion about me and will never need anyone in Ultima Online to tell me what I am or am not in real life.

Dying only makes me want to return for more and that's probably how most PVPers see things. That's why there are still a few major Felucca guilds and if it ever boils down to a total of 20 Vs 20 war I still will not give up Felucca and PVP and will stick with these few people who see things the way I do.

In the end I never, ever enjoyed fighting against someone who cannot fight back although I did enjoy having their insurance and potions.
As much as this is the major arguement Trammel players use when getting killed, there are two sides on every coin; No PVPer I've met ever wanted nor needed Trammel players who cannot PVP in Felucca! In danger of sounding rude I would suggest that all who find PVP "wrong", leave us fight among ourselves. We form our own bonds, community and strange kind of friendship and acknowledgement through fighting each other as well as along-side against other PVPers.
This whole last paragraph is something very difficult to grasp for some players as I have noticed but they never leave the issue alone.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[A Rev]

Im an odd one.

PvP for PvP's sake i dont tend to do unless i have to...so if its to help out guildies or a friend then i will.

If im doing a spawn then of course i expect to pvp.

The strange part is, i really enjoy pvp. It exciting, always different and generally fun.

The reason im strange is i actually like the monotomy of pvm! Generally i will be doing peerless or farming resources / renowneds etc and will only pvp if called upon.

 

[Merion]

You have an awful lot of "I don't PvP..." options in there and only 2 "I do.." options.

I clicked "I enjoy PvP", when really I don't care. It's part of the game, so I do not actively search for PvP, but I prefer to do things Fel that can be done in Fel. And if someone attacks me or someone from an opposing faction comes by, it's an opportunity to do PvP.

So, yes, I enjoy it

 

[Beer_Cayse]

I took the last one ... (perceived) cheats being part of it; gear (finances really) another and last ... eye/hand/tactical sux.

 

[The Doctor]

I PvP but only in Trammel. I'm a role-player and have battles with other like-minded people who don't rely on items or feel it necessary to behave rudely in victory or defeat. With rules and respect, PvP becomes an enjoyable activity some of the time.

Before the split, I remember that Shame on Europa was effectively "ruled" by a role-playing PK (Photek, I seem to recall was his name). Because he observed respect and his own rules, it was often quite enjoyable when he suddenly appeared and you had to fight for your life.

Other than my experience with him, every other PK I encountered was without honour, always in gangs and delivering cheap shots and trash talk. As an RPer, we spent way too much time trying to stop these people destroying events or invading communities, even inns. I moved to Trammel without a backward glance.

Trammel and the guild rules give me choice. The only way non-consensual PvP would work is if human nature suddenly changed overnight - about as much of a likelihood as world peace.

 

[Phaen Grey]

I PvP but only in Trammel. I'm a role-player and have battles with other like-minded people who don't rely on items or feel it necessary to behave rudely in victory or defeat. With rules and respect, PvP becomes an enjoyable activity some of the time.

This is the only reason I engage in PvP, when it's story driven and all parties have agreed on the rules for engagement.

I just don't enjoy non consensual PvP in any form, there is no reward for spending my time engaged in it.

 

[Alezi]

S!ckLoveR's post pretty much sums all my thoughts.

 

[phantus]

I enjoy Pvp. I picked option 1. I don't however like no holds barred pvp. Just like you mentioned with the lich lord scenario I like to pvp when I'm going for that part of the game. Being jumped or "inconvenienced" when I'm hunting something else doesn't appeal to me. I love fighting at champs...yew gate is a lil trashy but fun on occasion. I really enjoy team pvp moresoe than anything else. Group on group is by far the most fun I have.

I don't do very much of it because I'm so sick of champ spawns I can barely make myself go to them anymore and if I want the kind of pvp I like that's generally where it's at.