Trial of "The Great Oceania Keep Scandal" 1/4/2002 8:30pm

[Guest]

lol

 

[Lord_Blackadder]

Has anyone thought out how appeals might work ?

What would constitute a mistrial ?

How can the jury become biased ? Hang on nobody is biased in Oceania

 

[Guest]

When the jurys deciding it should be taken to a secret location known only by the Judge and use a ballot box to vote

If there are appeals it could go on for ever you might want to work out weather there are gonna be grounds for appeal or not.

 

[Sparhawk_OrB]

Jury duty!! Bring it on!

/php-bin/shared/images/icons/popcorn.gif

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

Ok both parties have agreed to go to trial so I will be organizing the first court trial (to my knowledge ) on the shard of Oceania.

Firstly may I request this thread be made sticky.

Date and Time: Monday 1/4/2002 8:30pm Sydney time. (No longer on daylight savings, Now GMT +10)

The plaintiff: Aquarius [VKR]
Laywer: Birma

The defendant: Saidin [TBD]
laywer: Red Wolf, Lord Page

Location: Tower named "Court of Britain" just south of West Britain farms in Trammel.
Public welcome.

Judge: not selected yet.

Jury: A panel of 9.
Selection will be based on a pool of 17 being randomly selected from available jurors. Then each laywer will have the opportunity to interview the jurors and in turn kick one untill the remainder is 9.

Innocent verdict: VKR will cease all comment on Saidins activities.
Guilty verdict: Saidin [TBD] will publicly appologise for scamming the keep from Aquarius [VKR]. Saidin [TBD] will be publicly executed by a VKR firing squad.

Regardless of verdict: VKR will rescind KOS enemy status of TBD.


This is the initial draft idea, any constructive comments about it are welcome, Please confine matters of feelings to the other 2 threads. There is no guarantee this will get off the ground yet so stay tuned.

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

There will be no apeals.

Jury will deliberate in the jury room after cases are presented for a nominal time, Then vote. During Trial they will be in party.

Due to circumstances this will either be rushed to a tentative time of Monday 1/4/2002 8:30pm Syd or delayed to an almost forgotten time of after 18/5/2002. So I am a little sceptical if this will all be able to be pulled together. As a few of the key people involved wont actually be back on till monday it will be quite an interesting feat getting organization done before Monday.

Location will be a Tram Tower situated just south of the West Brit Farms.

 

[Lord Tokor]

Ooh Still spots on the Jury ??
Pick me ! I'm as unbiased as possible !! (of course)
And look soooo pwetty in a suit !

Tokor
Guild name, hmm well *cough* LuT *cough* But still unbiased !!
*Edit* Icq 81934177

/php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[[coma]]

ME TOO, GUILD IS $$
I BET ALL PPL IN JURY ARE RP AND WILL BE BIASD
NO FAIRS,
PUT ALL PPL IN1

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

Date Set for: Monday 1/4/2002 at 8:30pm Sydney time.

 

[FooStool]

am i on the jury?

 

[Majestic]

only if you promise to hold my hand AND NEVER LET GO FOREVER AND EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[Davin_Darkblade]

How do we know if we are on the jury?

 

[Guest]

ooo i do hope i am

 

[Guest]

i'll hold your hand maj /php-bin/shared/images/icons/sgrin.gif

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

Due to the rushed nature we will have to do the Jury a little differently than planned, All those wishing to do Jury duty could you please come to Tower at about 8:00pm.

You shouldn't have trouble finding it, Just go out west of Brit in Tram, before you get to mountain pass go south, It's just out of guard zone.

Then all those present will be randomly culled then a final selection will take place.

 

[Guest]

what if 56 people show uo for jury duty?

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

Then 56 people get put into the hat and 17 people get plucked out at random. Then Each side gets to kick 4 Jurors. making a total of 9.

I will speak to both lawyers first to see if this is still acceptable. Maybe both sides should kick a certain amount first then the final selection done by random pick.

 

[Guest]

Can some one take a transcript and pics?
So thoes of us stuck at work can have a look please?

 

[Davin_Darkblade]

I would film it on a camera or something if such a tool was available to save it as a move on comp. That way you could watch it.

Might even throw in some funky voice acting hehe

 

[Red Wolf]

You need a video card with Video Out (eg GeForce2) and then you can plug in your video player and tape it.

 

[FooStool]

yeah that's what my friend's do at lan's. It's pretty cool.

 

[Davin_Darkblade]

So just plug in and press record and thats it? no seeting up software etC?

 

[Guest]

can u throw in some pop corn with that?

 

[Guest]

yah, and a frozen coke

 

[Lady_Magica]

choc-top icecreams
/php-bin/shared/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Guest]

ok im gonna be quite critical here, but here goes:

i commend whoever organised it on trying, but i was quite sure it'd be a failure. it turns out i was right

it was pretty much out of control and unorganised, and i am pretty srue they were just starting teh trial around 10:00pm (from an 8:30 start)

Tokor, a few other guys, and even myself got banned for "disruptive behavour", but when i inquired as to waht i had done, i was simpally forgotten about, as the people who i were talking to simplally walked off.

now as i said, i commend raptor (i think it was him) for trying, but it didn't end up turning out

ooh well, better luck next time methinks

 

[Guest]

OK I’m sitting at this trial down at a com crystal listen to all these character witnesses, for one I think that something we all know from experience in UO is that people do not act the same at all times. Just because he doesn’t steal from a friend out of a secured chest doesn’t mean he won’t scam a keep.
I ran into Saidan at Brit bank just after the scam post was posted and asked if he had scammed and he said to me that he had not scammed the keep and acquired it for 8 mill during numerous occasions during our conversation but now he has changed his story to the value of 18 million.
If Saidan is such a honest and good willed guy why doesn’t he do the right thing and give the keep back for the return of the said amount other than than anything which his friends are saying is just not true in my opinion.

 

[Lord Tokor]

Seriously, no offence to anyone, but the trial was screwed...

First I was graciously declined from jury duty because i had been seen with Narcissus... (I thought wtf??)

Then I was banned because Somebody stole a crate blocking off the crowd... (another Wtf??)

I was let back in, after they realised i had did nothing wrong... (Bout time)

Only too be banned again for walking too far when someone else stole the crate... (accidentally walked in then turned around) (another resounding WTF??)

I got sick of it and started mooning ppl... The trial was pretty screwed up from where I was sitting...

No offence intended to Organizers, only Trigger happy ppl friended to the house who liked to ban ppl

 

[megional]

Well I was their and it was the worst event ever.
1. The jury was made up of scammers.
2. Their was nothing for people to do whilst nothing happened for an hour or so.
3. Why were convicted scammers from tradespot aloud to attend?
4. Whats with the banning people? It wasnt their fault, just people bored out of their heads.
5. I dont even know why this upsets me, Its not as if KFR is a big guild or anything, or honourable

 

[Davin_Darkblade]

Hey i was on jury and im not a f#$%#%ing scammer! So get your facts right!

I was thinking of a fair verdict but couldnt because of disruptive players, I actually had to call GMS to get rid of annoying people.
If people get impatient why the hell go for?! Such a great player run event was ruined by people,

It did get out of hand you could have just left.....

*Sigh*

 

[megional]

*frowns* would you just take a second to think about the other people that were their, that were not aloud to join the others! just because you were giving some rights higher then others, you would of acted the same way as the people banned, And I do recall reading that everyone was invited. plus.... let me clear this up a little..... most of the jury were scammers/nasty people thank you.

 

[Davin_Darkblade]

I'm glad u cleared it up and not generalising the whole jury.

I arrived at 10 to 8. But 8pm people who wanted to jury were asked to proced to the jury room while everyone else waited downstairs. Yet there were still people running around crazy. We went too room and most people left. Mainly the ones who caused trouble afterwards. People brought havoc and were asked to wait patiently downstairs. And when we did let everyone into the court room towards the end of the trial, it went way out of hand.

You see the trial needs the maturity and co-operation of everyone, not just a few people

 

[Red Wolf]

Rundown from me:
Yes it was poorly organised. Talk to VKR.
The jury was chosen by me AND Birima. I agreed to every single candidate, he boycotted a few, but in the end we had a jury of 5 people on which both sides agreed.
The judge was chosen out of two final candidates by a roll of the dice.
Barima took forever cross examining the defence's witnesses on subject totally irrelevant to the trial.
It was an entirely fair trial right up until VKR realised that they were losing so then they attempted to enter into evidence things like doctored icq logs, which the defense was not even informed of prior to trial. After the judge denied them this as evidence, they started making allegations that the Defendant did not submit his icq log as evidence. Of course it is commonly known that a defendant does not sumbit any evidence to the prosecution on the grounds that he may incriminate himself, this is in the law of most democratic countries. Not only that but the bank balance and transactions which I asked for from Raptor were not given to me so there was no reason for us to provide any evidence to fuel the prosecution's endless ramblings. So after this, Birima refused to go on, even after the judge repeatedly asked him to, so the judge had to declare a mistrial. In my opinion Birima had absolutely no grounds to move for a mistrial, he claimed that the jurors, which he chose himself, were not impartial and that "this trial isn't fair". Another words, as soon as VKR realised they were losing they decided to go for a mis-trial. The fact that the defendant was VOLUNTARILY present at this trial, or that the myself, the defendant and all the defense's witnesses burned HOURS of their time for this trial did not worry VKR one bit. Anyway from what I heard the jury found the defendant not guilty so I guess Oceania will have to be satisfied will the blatant mockery of justice that VKR put on.

 

[Seifer^^]

Look

we ALL know...the event failed because REDWOLF was involved and I wasn't in the Jury

 

[Guest]

for once i agree fully with redwolf

it was a joke

i was banned for things that they wouldn't clear up on
they wouldn't say WHY i was banned, tehy just banned me and told me to basically go away
and you guys complain herr von is a corrupt boss/leader/mod.....

i know that ciba got sick to death with it and ended up just leaving, and she was upstairs, where it was relatively controlled....

downstairs it was a joke, clear and simple
i was asking exactly why tokor was banned, and all tehy'd do is just turn around and walk upstairs, even though when i asked the first time with a "because he was causing disruptive behavour", so it wasn't just a didn't see thing, it was that they just felt like ignoring me

all in all, a joke, 'nuff said

 

[Seifer^^]

aww poor blad

 

[Guest]

yes i need a shoulder to cry on, may i use yours?

 

[Lord_Blackadder]

And people said there would be no need for a court of appeals

*sighs*

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

Bladron no one could answer you because they didn't know. I banned you.

I was getting complaints it was hard to read the messages from the comms crystal in the viewing room. Upon investigating I found. I whole heap of text message coming from a character named Bladron.

Here it is from my journal log.
Bladron: SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM

I am sure you will say that is fake, But I don't care, You wanted to know why, There is your answer.

 

[Birima]

Red Wolf another paragraph could be useful. The trial became so unstable towards the point where we ended, that it was going to be impossible to have a just outcome. Red Wolf, you also stated I believe, 'I taped The Practice'. That's the funniest thing I heard the whole night, aside from 'I declare the charges dropped because two of my witnesses said the same thing'. If we also have a look at a certain other threads regarding Tokor (who people still asked why he was kicked from the jury), I think we see evidence of the type of characters present.

And speaking of burning hours, who do you think made the furniture for the court? Set it up? Was it you Red Wolf? I don't think you did that much at all. And to Bladron who was annoyed he waited so long, if people hadn't been causing so much trouble it would have gone much quicker. Ahh well. I do not care. Have your day Red Wolf, bad mouth all you want. In the end, I simply do not care. I'm sure you would have been happy to win due to an unfair trial, but then again, that's not justice.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I actually had to call GMS to get rid of annoying people.

<hr></blockquote>

<font color=blue>So you were the one who paged the GM, Davin!!!

Were you also the one who accused me of casting Fire Fields when I was clad in valorite armour and clearly not a mage??? (I have a Magery skill of 9.4 to be precise)

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

Red Wolf, Regarding your statements. I feel you need to set some things straight.

<blockquote><hr>


Yes it was poorly organised. Talk to VKR.


<hr></blockquote>
I do apologise to the people there that actually were mature enough to just come and participate for the amount of disturbance that was let through. I just didn't expect the level of trouble making and imaturity that was present.

<blockquote><hr>


Barima took forever cross examining the defence's witnesses on subject totally irrelevant to the trial.


<hr></blockquote>
God forbid birma should build a case up. May as well do it the redwolf way and say, you did it!!, or I object to everything, Or your case isn't relevant.

<blockquote><hr>


It was an entirely fair trial right up until VKR realised that they were losing


<hr></blockquote>
One Juror was kicked cause he thought it was more fun to kill himself over and over, Another was kicked because he thought he would take a much more active role than just listening and formulating his views based on what he heard. There was so much disruption I doubt anyone could actually concentrate, What's fair about it!. And how do you know we were losing when the jury hadn't come to a verdict yet. Did you have inside information from the jury.

<blockquote><hr>


attempted to enter into evidence things like doctored icq logs


<hr></blockquote>
One of those is my log, And I can speak for that one, I did not doctor any logs, Tell me what part is doctored and I will forward it onto you straight from ICQ itself.

<blockquote><hr>


Anyway from what I heard the jury found the defendant not guilty


<hr></blockquote>
There is that inside informations again. It sure isn't in any of my logs what they came up with. Are you sure the jury was impartial.

<blockquote><hr>


so I guess Oceania will have to be satisfied will the blatant mockery of justice that VKR put on.


<hr></blockquote>
Actually VKR were quite well behaved and respected the proceedings, I think you mean the mockery that the trouble makers put on. People like Bladron, Golieth, Jackson, Spicy McHaggis(juror), Undertaker, Jade, Coma(Juror) and Carlos to name a few that I directly banned myself.


So why do you attack VKR and Myself, You can't simply say it was a flop due to the amount of troublemakers. Instead you use it as an angle for vindicating your client whom you yourself looked like you doubted right towards the end.

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

No ciba that was me who accused you of being on top of the log cabin next door talking to Jackson who was casting fire fields. The people I were discussing it with misunderstood me and thought I was saying you were doing it, but I corrected them, Obviously they just decided to take the misinterpretation. You seemed pretty friendly at the time laughing at what he was planning on doing next to disrupt things. But upon checking my log I must admit you might not have been in co-horts with him so I apologise for stating that to the judge. In future I would think that a witness for the defence would stay clear of trouble makers so as to not cause suspicious behaviour though.

 

[Majestic]

*edit*

Removed due to icq abuse by Raptor

 

[Guest]

<font color=blue>Jackson and I were merely having a friendly chat whilst I waited for the proceedings to errr.. proceed! As it was I gave up my whole evening for something I expected would take no more than an hour... but it just kept going and going and going, so pardon me if my attention span was not as focused as some after two and a half hours.

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

What are you saying Majestic, You were not there yet you believe VKR was the cause of trouble based on what you have heard, Everything in this thread points to the opposite. THe trouble was caused by the trouble makers, so you must have heard it from ICQ off your friends who are either the defence who are biased or the trouble makers themselves who got upset at being banned. Surely you have the sense to know a person that causes trouble will give a bad report.

I will not stand here while you rubbish good members of VKR who stood and watched the proceedings without so much as one word of interuption. Get your facts straight. There was not a guild involved, It was myself, Birma and Aquarius on the side of good. Not VKR. Aqua said nothing, Birma is the Lawyer who has a right to say things. And I kicked out a number of trouble makers, That was quite obvious.

I feel you have been a victim of poor judgement based on biased views.

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

<blockquote><hr>


Removed due to icq abuse by Raptor


<hr></blockquote>

Come on, Have the courage to stand by your convictions. You have my permission to post the ICQ log.

 

[Lord Jackson]

You know Raptor, if Tokor wasn't banned, and we were allowed in. I wouldn't have been such an ass, bad luck la!

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

Well I guesss we better wrap it up oficially.

It was declared a mis-trial requested by procecution.

No apeal or re-trial will be done.

If anyone is interested the log of proceedings can be found at http://vkr.ausgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=699&amp;forum=5 but it is noted I took this log myself as our scribe vanished before the trial. Will post some pics there soon.

Thanks to all who showed up and didn't cause problems.

Unfortunately the proceedings went very slow due to the enormous amount of people causing problems and the fact this is the first type of this event and has not really been road tested as yet.

Apologies to the people who put a lot of effort in or who just came to participate in a mature fasion. The security aspect just didn't cope with the amount of trouble encountered.

5 Jury were selected due to availability of numbers.
Spicy McHaggis (Dismissed for repeatedly killing himself)
Coma (Dismissed for unruley behaviour befitting a juror)
Narcissus
ZoReX (Had to leave for an early start)
Davin Darkblade

All Prosecution were present. Aqua and Birma.
All Defence were present. Saidin and Stinger.

Presiding judge was Mike

Started Jury selection at 20:10 all finished at about 00:00

 

[Raptor(Oceania)]

Whatever makes you happy Jackson, If you enjoy ruining things then thats not going to effect me in the long run.

I don't know why Tokor was banned, Or Bane, I thought Bane was ok but Tokor just kept mooning outside so he must have been banned for a good reason.

As for yourself, I watched you several times lead tamed animals in, So it was actually me banning you, I wish you hadn't have, I actually thought you were ok before that.