To the Devs...*yes, Thief related*

[Guest]

Even in a game, I would guess no one likes being made to feel like a "victim." I sure don't. However, if the developers are going to include specific PvP conflict in the game, they have an obligation to continually support it like any other part of the game - or it needs to be removed completely.

Because it is a game, one that by definition is expected to involve interaction with other people, my feeling is there needs to be potential for both sides of any PvP situation to have fun/entertainment or it is not a successful component of the game. This includes thieving. It isn't fun for someone to have their time-intensive items taken with no real effective recourse, and it isn't fun to spend time training a skill and practicing it successfully for no real reward within the game environment. A broken/neglected system ends up satisfying no one.

-Skylark

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

So are you trying to claim, that losing some pixels...in a game...is truely a risk to anyone?

Risk indeed...pfft...la

[/ QUOTE ]
Which story are we going with? Thieves were not balance then and those with no risk will be at any time. You want to come up with some substance in your rebuttle rather than excuses that would be great. If we go the pixel route then risk nor reward exist. Nothing does and there is no point in stealing from them. Lame....

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

So are you trying to claim, that losing some pixels...in a game...is truely a risk to anyone?

Risk indeed...pfft...la

[/ QUOTE ]
Which story are we going with? Thieves were not balance then and those with no risk will be at any time. You want to come up with some substance in your rebuttle rather than excuses that would be great. If we go the pixel route then risk nor reward exist. Nothing does and there is no point in stealing from them. Lame....

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

any thief worth anything will be wearing armour, if they're not there's no excuse why you couldnt kill them eitgher before or after they stole from you

[/ QUOTE ]
Then you aren't thinking outside the box because 2 thieves could steal stuff and get away with it everytime. Both wearing deathrobes. Both with nothing to lose and only gain. Try again.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

any thief worth anything will be wearing armour, if they're not there's no excuse why you couldnt kill them eitgher before or after they stole from you

[/ QUOTE ]
Then you aren't thinking outside the box because 2 thieves could steal stuff and get away with it everytime. Both wearing deathrobes. Both with nothing to lose and only gain. Try again.

 

[Guest]

have you seen this happen once in the past year?

 

[Guest]

have you seen this happen once in the past year?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

have you seen this happen once in the past year?

[/ QUOTE ]
You make changes to thieving that makes it popular again and it will. People travel to the path of least resistance. When that happens there will be more.

To answer your question, no. Then again, it's not as easy to be a thief as it once was either.

As I've said numerous times, in this very thread, I have no problem with thief revamp but effort needs to be expended to prevent the no-risk thieves from overwhelming the game. Each time you see these discussions there is never any thought put into the people who will undoubtedly abuse the system. UO has enough half thought out systems to add more.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

have you seen this happen once in the past year?

[/ QUOTE ]
You make changes to thieving that makes it popular again and it will. People travel to the path of least resistance. When that happens there will be more.

To answer your question, no. Then again, it's not as easy to be a thief as it once was either.

As I've said numerous times, in this very thread, I have no problem with thief revamp but effort needs to be expended to prevent the no-risk thieves from overwhelming the game. Each time you see these discussions there is never any thought put into the people who will undoubtedly abuse the system. UO has enough half thought out systems to add more.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

So are you trying to claim, that losing some pixels...in a game...is truely a risk to anyone?

Risk indeed...pfft...la

[/ QUOTE ]
Which story are we going with? Thieves were not balance then and those with no risk will be at any time. You want to come up with some substance in your rebuttle rather than excuses that would be great. If we go the pixel route then risk nor reward exist. Nothing does and there is no point in stealing from them. Lame....

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't steal for the loot. I steal for the chase. These days, there isn't much in a player's pack that they are willing to chase to retrieve (on the production shards). Way back in the day (for me at least). I played my single character on Atlantic. I had no home and worked out of my bank box. I had no interest in even having a vendor. LOL, the first time my bank balance got over 100k? I won a joke telling contest and received a 100k check for my effort...la

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

So are you trying to claim, that losing some pixels...in a game...is truely a risk to anyone?

Risk indeed...pfft...la

[/ QUOTE ]
Which story are we going with? Thieves were not balance then and those with no risk will be at any time. You want to come up with some substance in your rebuttle rather than excuses that would be great. If we go the pixel route then risk nor reward exist. Nothing does and there is no point in stealing from them. Lame....

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't steal for the loot. I steal for the chase. These days, there isn't much in a player's pack that they are willing to chase to retrieve (on the production shards). Way back in the day (for me at least). I played my single character on Atlantic. I had no home and worked out of my bank box. I had no interest in even having a vendor. LOL, the first time my bank balance got over 100k? I won a joke telling contest and received a 100k check for my effort...la

 

[Guest]

hey what if they also introduced some sort of locakble box that people could carry round with them that they could safely store stuff in, would that make it a bit fairer?

 

[Guest]

hey what if they also introduced some sort of locakble box that people could carry round with them that they could safely store stuff in, would that make it a bit fairer?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

This is stupid. We all know that every RPG set in Medevil Times, had NO thief's, no bad guys, and was all Hug's &amp; Kisses.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad for forgetting this... I'd better confiscate my barmaid's broom to be on the safe side. She might have someone's eye out with the handle, and I don't want any lawsuits served in Dreamstone

<blockquote><hr>

Now, since NONE of this will ever happen, lets all have a group hug. Ahhhhhh

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take that hug and resist the urge to rob my fellow hugees blind

That's the funny thing, folks getting all anxious that a thief might have some purpose rummaging in their packs, yet there's not a dev even whispering the "thief" word. I'm optimistic about a lot of things in UO, but I think most devs want thieves to just go away or hide in Doom. There are so few of us that a sizable overhaul of stealing is hard to justify.

But I'd love to be proved wrong! I mean, surely our Master of Disaster has a wee soft spot for the mischievous thief. We might not explode (well not intentionally!) but we can cause trouble

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

This is stupid. We all know that every RPG set in Medevil Times, had NO thief's, no bad guys, and was all Hug's &amp; Kisses.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad for forgetting this... I'd better confiscate my barmaid's broom to be on the safe side. She might have someone's eye out with the handle, and I don't want any lawsuits served in Dreamstone

<blockquote><hr>

Now, since NONE of this will ever happen, lets all have a group hug. Ahhhhhh

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take that hug and resist the urge to rob my fellow hugees blind

That's the funny thing, folks getting all anxious that a thief might have some purpose rummaging in their packs, yet there's not a dev even whispering the "thief" word. I'm optimistic about a lot of things in UO, but I think most devs want thieves to just go away or hide in Doom. There are so few of us that a sizable overhaul of stealing is hard to justify.

But I'd love to be proved wrong! I mean, surely our Master of Disaster has a wee soft spot for the mischievous thief. We might not explode (well not intentionally!) but we can cause trouble

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

hey what if they also introduced some sort of locakble box that people could carry round with them that they could safely store stuff in, would that make it a bit fairer?

[/ QUOTE ]


Ummm, that already exists. LOL. I'm just glad they no longer can make one hit kill thief proof boxes. At least now we can snoop, get trapped, and have time to heal, lol...la

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

hey what if they also introduced some sort of locakble box that people could carry round with them that they could safely store stuff in, would that make it a bit fairer?

[/ QUOTE ]


Ummm, that already exists. LOL. I'm just glad they no longer can make one hit kill thief proof boxes. At least now we can snoop, get trapped, and have time to heal, lol...la

 

[imported_Sarphus]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I've never understood what value thieves bring to the game. Where's the fun in being just yet another hapless victim of a crime lord?

[/ QUOTE ]

putting it mildly.. the fun part about being a thief is being mischevious and cunning. If you're a true thief, you use witts to outsmart the players and take what you want what they wish they still had

[/ QUOTE ]

you hit the nail right on the head.

I LOVED playing my theif. Sneaking around and taking people's stuff. Using my cunning to get away most of the time. Sometimes killing them if I had managed to steal enough stuff that they couldn't fight back.

it was very fun. Usually I just got stuff that wasn't really worth much. Sometimes I got really nice stuff like a tower deed (back then guilds had to save to buy one) or a supr acc vanq weapon.

It was never about what I took because my character had a really small footprint (very cheap char to operate). It was just about outclevering people

I retired my thief when AoS eliminated most loot from the profession. When you can't even steal regs, there's no point to playing the char.

 

[imported_Sarphus]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I've never understood what value thieves bring to the game. Where's the fun in being just yet another hapless victim of a crime lord?

[/ QUOTE ]

putting it mildly.. the fun part about being a thief is being mischevious and cunning. If you're a true thief, you use witts to outsmart the players and take what you want what they wish they still had

[/ QUOTE ]

you hit the nail right on the head.

I LOVED playing my theif. Sneaking around and taking people's stuff. Using my cunning to get away most of the time. Sometimes killing them if I had managed to steal enough stuff that they couldn't fight back.

it was very fun. Usually I just got stuff that wasn't really worth much. Sometimes I got really nice stuff like a tower deed (back then guilds had to save to buy one) or a supr acc vanq weapon.

It was never about what I took because my character had a really small footprint (very cheap char to operate). It was just about outclevering people

I retired my thief when AoS eliminated most loot from the profession. When you can't even steal regs, there's no point to playing the char.

 

[Guest]

And have you tried making one on Siege? That were the fun still exists...la

 

[Guest]

And have you tried making one on Siege? That were the fun still exists...la

 

[Guest]

stop encouraging competition!

 

[Guest]

stop encouraging competition!

 

[Guest]

LOL. Then I guess I need to get you to quit then, but you seem to be having fun...la

 

[Guest]

LOL. Then I guess I need to get you to quit then, but you seem to be having fun...la

 

[Guest]

hehe i think the lack of proper thieves has got everyone a bit complacent, only seen 2 others apart from us

 

[Guest]

hehe i think the lack of proper thieves has got everyone a bit complacent, only seen 2 others apart from us

 

[Prudentis]

Let me put it this way:
Stealing is hurting the players not their avatars. It's the time invested in acquiring some items, gold, whatever, you are stealing. If such mechanics would again exist in UO, than the punishment for caught thieves should be the same = time punishment for the player not the avatar. A temporary suspension for the player on the particular shard.

 

[Prudentis]

Let me put it this way:
Stealing is hurting the players not their avatars. It's the time invested in acquiring some items, gold, whatever, you are stealing. If such mechanics would again exist in UO, than the punishment for caught thieves should be the same = time punishment for the player not the avatar. A temporary suspension for the player on the particular shard.

 

[Guest]

*sighs*

I'm sorry, that may be the silliest suggestion I've heard in a long time. So who would determine how long the thief had to stay in time out? Should this happen with every steal? Or just the ones you deem sever enough?

STOP IT!!!...la

 

[Guest]

*sighs*

I'm sorry, that may be the silliest suggestion I've heard in a long time. So who would determine how long the thief had to stay in time out? Should this happen with every steal? Or just the ones you deem sever enough?

STOP IT!!!...la

 

[Prudentis]

It may be silly in your eyes and I perfectly understand why you say so.
You are the self proclaimed villain, so naturally, you are your own defender. Consider me, as a kind of prosecutor

I dare you to look on the matter from another perspective, if you can.
If you steal something from another player. What have you done?
In my eyes, you have just stolen his time. For me there is no difference if you stole my real money or virtual money. What really is stolen, is the time that was needed to acquire the goods.
You may not understand what I am saying, but that's not, because it is silly, but because you are unable to adjust your perspective.
You see, what I am trying to say, is, that you are seeking to be again allowed to play the game like it makes fun for you. That is perfectly acceptable. What I am trying to do is show everyone, that allowing it is not a good thing. And that is my perfect right.
If you are allowed (by game design) to steal from me without the possibility of adequate punishment, than you will do it, and I am the screwed one.

And since I hate punishment, I'd rather not see stealing as a possibility ingame, since given the chance, there will always be guys like you, who take their fun out of hurting others.
And please, don't take it personal, because I don't want to judge you. You have your views and I have mine. We just happen to stand on different sides on this matter.

 

[Prudentis]

It may be silly in your eyes and I perfectly understand why you say so.
You are the self proclaimed villain, so naturally, you are your own defender. Consider me, as a kind of prosecutor

I dare you to look on the matter from another perspective, if you can.
If you steal something from another player. What have you done?
In my eyes, you have just stolen his time. For me there is no difference if you stole my real money or virtual money. What really is stolen, is the time that was needed to acquire the goods.
You may not understand what I am saying, but that's not, because it is silly, but because you are unable to adjust your perspective.
You see, what I am trying to say, is, that you are seeking to be again allowed to play the game like it makes fun for you. That is perfectly acceptable. What I am trying to do is show everyone, that allowing it is not a good thing. And that is my perfect right.
If you are allowed (by game design) to steal from me without the possibility of adequate punishment, than you will do it, and I am the screwed one.

And since I hate punishment, I'd rather not see stealing as a possibility ingame, since given the chance, there will always be guys like you, who take their fun out of hurting others.
And please, don't take it personal, because I don't want to judge you. You have your views and I have mine. We just happen to stand on different sides on this matter.

 

[Arcus]

<blockquote><hr>


In my eyes, you have just stolen his time.


[/ QUOTE ]

So if you kill someone in multiplayer Quake 1 you just stole all the time it took him to run around and acquire the RPG and various other items? Its the same thing. Pixels. While it may take 30 seconds to acquire all the items in quake and years in UO , if you dont look at them as something that is not real and something that realy isnt yours in the first place you need to reconsider some things in life...


<blockquote><hr>


For me there is no difference if you stole my real money or virtual money.


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm....point proven. Thanks.

 

[Arcus]

<blockquote><hr>


In my eyes, you have just stolen his time.


[/ QUOTE ]

So if you kill someone in multiplayer Quake 1 you just stole all the time it took him to run around and acquire the RPG and various other items? Its the same thing. Pixels. While it may take 30 seconds to acquire all the items in quake and years in UO , if you dont look at them as something that is not real and something that realy isnt yours in the first place you need to reconsider some things in life...


<blockquote><hr>


For me there is no difference if you stole my real money or virtual money.


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm....point proven. Thanks.

 

[AshOfCaine]

So, your suggestion is someone uses stealing against a player and they should be banned for a period of time? I have to agree with Rico, in that is completely ridiculous. I hate people who play Reds, thus forcing most of my players to be Trammies, this means my crafter is punished by not being able to go to Fel and get the double resources, my fighters are punished because they can't get the higher fame to work on their virtues of honor and sacrifice. So, by your logic, a PKer would need to be banned as well. Because they impact my way of playing, by making it risky to go into Fel.

I don't think anyone that has suggested making thieving fun again (yes for the thief) has implied they should be allowed to steal in Tram. I, for one, believe it should remain a Fel aspect, which goes into the same bucket of risk of being killed, you go to Fel, you accept the risk of being stolen from. Like it or not, thieving was in the original aspect of the design of the game, and they have become a dieing breed because of the changes in the game mechanics. So there are plenty of veteran players who have had their play style ended because people didn't like staying in Tram. I don't like staying in Tram, so should be do away with PvP entirely so that I am not able to be targeted? Of course not, because that is a huge aspect of the game, while thieving isn't a huge aspect, it is an original part that has been all but eliminated. So why should I or any other thief be punished because people are unwilling to accept the risk of being in Fel or too lazy to protect themselves.

What would be the next step, someone attacks a monster you were fighting so they should be sent to time out as well? That makes people mad, doesn't it? And can be done in Tram and nothing player can do about it. It is perfectly legal and valid, yet people get upset because they feel they are entitled to do as they want and everyone else should go back and wait till they are done playing the game.

 

[AshOfCaine]

So, your suggestion is someone uses stealing against a player and they should be banned for a period of time? I have to agree with Rico, in that is completely ridiculous. I hate people who play Reds, thus forcing most of my players to be Trammies, this means my crafter is punished by not being able to go to Fel and get the double resources, my fighters are punished because they can't get the higher fame to work on their virtues of honor and sacrifice. So, by your logic, a PKer would need to be banned as well. Because they impact my way of playing, by making it risky to go into Fel.

I don't think anyone that has suggested making thieving fun again (yes for the thief) has implied they should be allowed to steal in Tram. I, for one, believe it should remain a Fel aspect, which goes into the same bucket of risk of being killed, you go to Fel, you accept the risk of being stolen from. Like it or not, thieving was in the original aspect of the design of the game, and they have become a dieing breed because of the changes in the game mechanics. So there are plenty of veteran players who have had their play style ended because people didn't like staying in Tram. I don't like staying in Tram, so should be do away with PvP entirely so that I am not able to be targeted? Of course not, because that is a huge aspect of the game, while thieving isn't a huge aspect, it is an original part that has been all but eliminated. So why should I or any other thief be punished because people are unwilling to accept the risk of being in Fel or too lazy to protect themselves.

What would be the next step, someone attacks a monster you were fighting so they should be sent to time out as well? That makes people mad, doesn't it? And can be done in Tram and nothing player can do about it. It is perfectly legal and valid, yet people get upset because they feel they are entitled to do as they want and everyone else should go back and wait till they are done playing the game.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

For me there is no difference if you stole my real money or virtual money...

[/ QUOTE ]

And see, this may be your biggest problem. Step away from the game for a little while. They are only pixels. I have only taken a group of pixels, out of the pack that is represented by pixels.

It is a game, but if those pixels mean so much to you. Spend the "time" to learn the game mechanics that will prevent me from taking your pixels.

I will admit, it has been many years since I have played the victim, but just recently, I started some PvP characters. I know where to do my banking, how to do my banking. How to protect my goods from those squirrely thieves. Guess what, not a single pixel of mine has been stolen. Oh, and I play Siege (for the most part) so everywhere I travel, there is a chance I can be stolen from.

One thing I used to do was play a detective on Atlantic from time to time. Why? I knew how thieves thought, and I knew how to both have and let them have some fun at the same time. Learn the game, and there will be much less chance for your pixels to end up in another player's pack or vendor...la

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

For me there is no difference if you stole my real money or virtual money...

[/ QUOTE ]

And see, this may be your biggest problem. Step away from the game for a little while. They are only pixels. I have only taken a group of pixels, out of the pack that is represented by pixels.

It is a game, but if those pixels mean so much to you. Spend the "time" to learn the game mechanics that will prevent me from taking your pixels.

I will admit, it has been many years since I have played the victim, but just recently, I started some PvP characters. I know where to do my banking, how to do my banking. How to protect my goods from those squirrely thieves. Guess what, not a single pixel of mine has been stolen. Oh, and I play Siege (for the most part) so everywhere I travel, there is a chance I can be stolen from.

One thing I used to do was play a detective on Atlantic from time to time. Why? I knew how thieves thought, and I knew how to both have and let them have some fun at the same time. Learn the game, and there will be much less chance for your pixels to end up in another player's pack or vendor...la

 

[Prudentis]

<blockquote><hr>


So if you kill someone in multiplayer Quake 1 you just stole all the time it took him to run around and acquire the RPG and various other items?


[/ QUOTE ]
Of course.

<blockquote><hr>


Its the same thing. Pixels.


[/ QUOTE ]
Just like "real money" is paper.

<blockquote><hr>


While it may take 30 seconds to acquire all the items in quake and years in UO , if you dont look at them as something that is not real and something that realy isnt yours in the first place you need to reconsider some things in life...


[/ QUOTE ]
Hehehe. It might surprise you, but there exist some philosophies out there, in which your statement could be considered naive, to say the least

Catholic religion being one of them and Buddhism more plainly so.
The worth of "material goods" is ONLY determined by the person's subjective perspective. Take stealing as the example here. Let's say you steal my 70k EUR expansive car and inside it there was an old puppet bear. If you now gave me the option of me reclaiming only one of the two items, I would instantly choose the bear, because it happens to be my little daughters dear friend. Fu*k the car. The bear is worth sooooo much more because it has my daughter's feelings attached to it.
What gives the bear it's value? Is it the MATERIAL value or is it the VIRTUAL=EMOTIONAL value?
Now substitute emotion with time, another virtual (as immaterial) value, and you might get my point.

<blockquote><hr>


For me there is no difference if you stole my real money or virtual money.


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm....point proven. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess.
I really hope you understand what I wrote above, because it is a valuable lesson

 

[Prudentis]

<blockquote><hr>


So if you kill someone in multiplayer Quake 1 you just stole all the time it took him to run around and acquire the RPG and various other items?


[/ QUOTE ]
Of course.

<blockquote><hr>


Its the same thing. Pixels.


[/ QUOTE ]
Just like "real money" is paper.

<blockquote><hr>


While it may take 30 seconds to acquire all the items in quake and years in UO , if you dont look at them as something that is not real and something that realy isnt yours in the first place you need to reconsider some things in life...


[/ QUOTE ]
Hehehe. It might surprise you, but there exist some philosophies out there, in which your statement could be considered naive, to say the least

Catholic religion being one of them and Buddhism more plainly so.
The worth of "material goods" is ONLY determined by the person's subjective perspective. Take stealing as the example here. Let's say you steal my 70k EUR expansive car and inside it there was an old puppet bear. If you now gave me the option of me reclaiming only one of the two items, I would instantly choose the bear, because it happens to be my little daughters dear friend. Fu*k the car. The bear is worth sooooo much more because it has my daughter's feelings attached to it.
What gives the bear it's value? Is it the MATERIAL value or is it the VIRTUAL=EMOTIONAL value?
Now substitute emotion with time, another virtual (as immaterial) value, and you might get my point.

<blockquote><hr>


For me there is no difference if you stole my real money or virtual money.


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm....point proven. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess.
I really hope you understand what I wrote above, because it is a valuable lesson

 

[Prudentis]

<blockquote><hr>

So, by your logic, a PKer would need to be banned as well.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, youur conclusion is correct. My logic implies that

<blockquote><hr>


I don't think anyone that has suggested making thieving fun again (yes for the thief) has implied they should be allowed to steal in Tram.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I might have missed that part in Rico's post.
If he wants a secluded area where he can go and steal, he is welcome, as long as I don't have to enter it. Champion spawns are in Felu, but it is a small aspect of the game, and I see no problem here.

<blockquote><hr>


What would be the next step, someone attacks a monster you were fighting so they should be sent to time out as well? That makes people mad, doesn't it? And can be done in Tram and nothing player can do about it. It is perfectly legal and valid, yet people get upset because they feel they are entitled to do as they want and everyone else should go back and wait till they are done playing the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe, I remember when I killed my first Ancient Wyrm. Well almost killed it, because a stealthed greifer delivered the finel blow after me fighting it for about 20 minutes.
It's not stealing, pvping or anything like it I despise. It's the griefing.

 

[Prudentis]

<blockquote><hr>

So, by your logic, a PKer would need to be banned as well.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, youur conclusion is correct. My logic implies that

<blockquote><hr>


I don't think anyone that has suggested making thieving fun again (yes for the thief) has implied they should be allowed to steal in Tram.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I might have missed that part in Rico's post.
If he wants a secluded area where he can go and steal, he is welcome, as long as I don't have to enter it. Champion spawns are in Felu, but it is a small aspect of the game, and I see no problem here.

<blockquote><hr>


What would be the next step, someone attacks a monster you were fighting so they should be sent to time out as well? That makes people mad, doesn't it? And can be done in Tram and nothing player can do about it. It is perfectly legal and valid, yet people get upset because they feel they are entitled to do as they want and everyone else should go back and wait till they are done playing the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe, I remember when I killed my first Ancient Wyrm. Well almost killed it, because a stealthed greifer delivered the finel blow after me fighting it for about 20 minutes.
It's not stealing, pvping or anything like it I despise. It's the griefing.

 

[Arcus]

<blockquote><hr>


<blockquote><hr>


While it may take 30 seconds to acquire all the items in quake and years in UO , if you dont look at them as something that is not real and something that realy isnt yours in the first place you need to reconsider some things in life...


[/ QUOTE ]
Hehehe. It might surprise you, but there exist some philosophies out there, in which your statement could be considered naive, to say the least

Catholic religion being one of them and Buddhism more plainly so.
The worth of "material goods" is ONLY determined by the person's subjective perspective. Take stealing as the example here. Let's say you steal my 70k EUR expansive car and inside it there was an old puppet bear. If you now gave me the option of me reclaiming only one of the two items, I would instantly choose the bear, because it happens to be my little daughters dear friend. Fu*k the car. The bear is worth sooooo much more because it has my daughter's feelings attached to it.
What gives the bear it's value? Is it the MATERIAL value or is it the VIRTUAL=EMOTIONAL value?
Now substitute emotion with time, another virtual (as immaterial) value, and you might get my point.


[/ QUOTE ]

The catholic religion is based on control of the masses and wealth acquisition. Its does not surprise me and I am well aware of their position on such matters as TIME = MONEY

As for Buddhism, not sure where you are coming with that. The Middle Way is certainly not interested in self indulgence in any form, virtual or tangible.

I get your point about the emotional. Trust me. I would choose as you would. But if its gone its gone, and people need to move on in life.

And just to drag reality into it, in UO the "teddy bear" is not yours in the first place. You are only renting it. If you are naive enough to get attached to something that you know will never be "yours" anyway...well then who is the naive one now?

 

[Arcus]

<blockquote><hr>


<blockquote><hr>


While it may take 30 seconds to acquire all the items in quake and years in UO , if you dont look at them as something that is not real and something that realy isnt yours in the first place you need to reconsider some things in life...


[/ QUOTE ]
Hehehe. It might surprise you, but there exist some philosophies out there, in which your statement could be considered naive, to say the least

Catholic religion being one of them and Buddhism more plainly so.
The worth of "material goods" is ONLY determined by the person's subjective perspective. Take stealing as the example here. Let's say you steal my 70k EUR expansive car and inside it there was an old puppet bear. If you now gave me the option of me reclaiming only one of the two items, I would instantly choose the bear, because it happens to be my little daughters dear friend. Fu*k the car. The bear is worth sooooo much more because it has my daughter's feelings attached to it.
What gives the bear it's value? Is it the MATERIAL value or is it the VIRTUAL=EMOTIONAL value?
Now substitute emotion with time, another virtual (as immaterial) value, and you might get my point.


[/ QUOTE ]

The catholic religion is based on control of the masses and wealth acquisition. Its does not surprise me and I am well aware of their position on such matters as TIME = MONEY

As for Buddhism, not sure where you are coming with that. The Middle Way is certainly not interested in self indulgence in any form, virtual or tangible.

I get your point about the emotional. Trust me. I would choose as you would. But if its gone its gone, and people need to move on in life.

And just to drag reality into it, in UO the "teddy bear" is not yours in the first place. You are only renting it. If you are naive enough to get attached to something that you know will never be "yours" anyway...well then who is the naive one now?

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

There are good players, and there are bad players. Thieves can be looked at as "bad", but, we also provided some challenge to players who were interested.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am all for this.

But instead of a Grey Tag for the Thief, just make it so that the "Interested" players can turn on their own flag, and thereby give them a choice of whether to be "Excited" today, or not, by a leg humping thief!!

Great Idea!!

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

There are good players, and there are bad players. Thieves can be looked at as "bad", but, we also provided some challenge to players who were interested.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am all for this.

But instead of a Grey Tag for the Thief, just make it so that the "Interested" players can turn on their own flag, and thereby give them a choice of whether to be "Excited" today, or not, by a leg humping thief!!

Great Idea!!

 

[Arcus]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

There are good players, and there are bad players. Thieves can be looked at as "bad", but, we also provided some challenge to players who were interested.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am all for this.

But instead of a Grey Tag for the Thief, just make it so that the "Interested" players can turn on their own flag, and thereby give them a choice of whether to be "Excited" today, or not, by a leg humping thief!!

Great Idea!!

[/ QUOTE ]


Many 'real' thieves welcome the perma-grey tag back. I do.

 

[Arcus]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

There are good players, and there are bad players. Thieves can be looked at as "bad", but, we also provided some challenge to players who were interested.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am all for this.

But instead of a Grey Tag for the Thief, just make it so that the "Interested" players can turn on their own flag, and thereby give them a choice of whether to be "Excited" today, or not, by a leg humping thief!!

Great Idea!!

[/ QUOTE ]


Many 'real' thieves welcome the perma-grey tag back. I do.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

There are good players, and there are bad players. Thieves can be looked at as "bad", but, we also provided some challenge to players who were interested.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am all for this.

But instead of a Grey Tag for the Thief, just make it so that the "Interested" players can turn on their own flag, and thereby give them a choice of whether to be "Excited" today, or not, by a leg humping thief!!

Great Idea!!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's already in the game. That little button, marked Felucca on the moongate. That's the on and off button, you asked about...la