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I'm not claiming to be "in the know". I don't PvP actively, only when forced to when I'm out venturing in Felucca alone, or with my guild doing champs. Since I don't PvP, I've never felt any need to "hack" or whatever. I just use the programs that UO, Tugsoft (UOA) and the maker of UO Cartographer have provided me and find it enough...
However, regarding the stump hack...
I am pretty sure I've seen UO developers talk about it here on Stratics in the past and either deeming it legal, or even explaining how to change your files accordingly to achieve this...
This was a while back though, I don't know if it was around Wilki's era, or before that, but I believe it did happen...
Hacking, cheating, bla, bla, bla...
all this remind me the pre SA times when all are asking about gargoyle fly and the devs every week said the same thing.
All this is became boring, useless and do not resolve anything.
Stratics mods should lock all this kind of post immediately... it's discussed enough, just search around and it's always the same story since day 1....
I think the devs should ban who ask about cheating because in the mind of this people there is the will of cheating and the fear to do it
all this remind me the pre SA times when all are asking about gargoyle fly and the devs every week said the same thing.
All this is became boring, useless and do not resolve anything.
Stratics mods should lock all this kind of post immediately... it's discussed enough, just search around and it's always the same story since day 1....
I think the devs should ban who ask about cheating because in the mind of this people there is the will of cheating and the fear to do it
I've already explained this, many times, in this thread, and several others. You don't actually move faster in the EC. There is at least one video you are welcome to find yourself on this forum that conclusively shows that this is true. Yes, videos can be manipulated, but I also know that it is true because I've seen it hundreds of times in game.
You will outrun people if you use the EC not because your top speed is any higher than anyone using the CC, but because of auto avoid for obstacles, because the EC handles lag better and lag doesn't cause slower movement like it does with the CC, because there are no tombstones in the CC, and you can run right through the tiles that have them (something that I admit, probably was a bad design decision), and because the EC crosses server lines faster.
This is with an official client. It is by definition not cheating. It is available to everyone, so it is by definition fair. If you choose not to use it, that's your problem and whining about it doesn't do much other than make you look bad.
You can do exactly the same thing, in different ways, with UOA. And there are actually at least a couple of things you can do with UOA macros that you can't do with EC macros, and that is, interact with menus, and "record" complex actions. We've actually asked for this feature to be added. And while we are on the topic, UO Assist actually did start off as an illegal cheat.
As for the "scripting" available in the enhanced client, it doesn't provide the same kind of functionality that ****** scripting does, not even remotely close. You can do a lot with it, but it basically has to do with UI manipulation, you can't use EC scripts to play the game for you, in any way shape or form. There is no relative targeting for one thing, and you also don't have access to client variables.
So perhaps I'm not the one who needs to know what he is talking about here...
You'll have to provide a link for this because I very much doubt it. I think you'll also find that modifying client files is an express violation of the TOS, although I'm having a hard time tracking down the latest version of the UO TOS. The only versions I can find online appear to be seriously out of date or incomplete.
R
RavenWinterHawk
Guest
I see this thread got far.
Have you thought that because this is a game, there will always be inequities.
Even in real life warfare there is not balance.
Seriously, its like sealing a leaking damn to find another leak.
I get your trying to remove as much as you can to make it "fair".
But even once fair... there will still be non cheating inequites.
Do you know who sisophys is(spelling)?
Look you all pointed out the same problems that have been pointed out.
You did all you can do.
Have you thought that because this is a game, there will always be inequities.
Even in real life warfare there is not balance.
Seriously, its like sealing a leaking damn to find another leak.
I get your trying to remove as much as you can to make it "fair".
But even once fair... there will still be non cheating inequites.
Do you know who sisophys is(spelling)?
Look you all pointed out the same problems that have been pointed out.
You did all you can do.
This begs the question: What was the first step?
I've read many times claiming that "speed hacks" allow you to move faster than you can normally, ie. increase your top speed. I've read many accusations of people on foot outrunning people on mounts. I've seen enough in game to be able to state pretty categorically, that neither of these things are true, and they certainly aren't true of the EC.
Of course when you show people that they are wrong using evidence and logic, they will change the rules of the game. "Oh speed hacks don't actually allow you to move faster in a straight line, but they make a hell of a difference if you run 10 squares north, turn 45° and run 7 squares, then pull three 360's and run up and down precisely 8 stairs, 16 times..."
Speed hacks don't increase your top speed period. Everyone's top speed is the same. The EC doesn't increase your top speed period, everyone's top speed is the same. It doesn't matter how many times you twist and turn, or how many doughnuts you pull, your top speed is always the same. As for the advantages that the EC does offer, and what advantages "speed hacks" offer, that has been discussed at length, and I'm not going to repeat myself yet again.
Entirely typical of the kinds of excuses every cheater makes for their conduct. If you are altering client art files in the classic client, you are cheating. Once you are willing to admit that, then perhaps we can start an honest discussion on the reasons you've made the choices you have, and what measures should be put in place to ensure that honest players are playing the same game you are.
Yes I know who Sisyphus is.
And yes, I am doing what I can by not letting anyone think this subject has been forgotten. And actually modified art files is one cheating issue that hasn't been discussed at great length. Unfortunately the boulder keeps rolling down the hill and we end up discussing the same things over and over again. How frightfully human we all are...
You have much to learn grasshopper.
Peace out cant stand reading your ridiculous responses. At least some people on this thread ADMIT to not knowing what they are talking about when trying to give their reasonable opinions.
M
Megilhir
Guest
Goodness has it really been two years since my last post?
Fact: There are cheaters in most MMOs. (True)
Assumption: Cheaters can be effectively stopped. (False)
Assumption: Good people don't cheat. (False)
Assumption: UO has a solid basis for PvP. (Discussion)
I appreciate people possessing vigor for their chosen on-line venue. I have played UO since December of the year it was launched. Way, way back then UO had valid PvP. It has not since about two years after launch.
A bold statement to be certain but not without definable merit.
My first home (7 x 7 on Pacific just above Skara-Brit cross roads) was "Smack-dab" in the middle of the area designated by yellow-red triangles on spawn and danger maps as were the fashion at the time.
I placed the house after having an account for almost six months. Now lean back and reflect for a second. That means I placed a house in UO's first year of existence.
As often occurred, one day a RED showed up. This was back when murderers could actually be skilled individual players (some were role-players) instead of gangs of cretins fearfully gathering together to apply gank-sauce to the lone adventurer.
Back on track...I had a vendor who neutrally serviced the spectrum. As such, upon seeing a visitor I would open the door and politely attempt to chat with the visitor, usually from inside my home with my TILDA key set for "Last Object". Seems safe huh?
I grew to know a fair few people and a relative safety ensued with most players. The ones who simply could not control themselves were just ignored, though not banned unless dramatic recourse was required.
Well as sure as the sun rises there came a day when a RED I had not seen previously came by...hunting.
I opened the door, said hi and he attacked me.
TILDA and the door shut. He opened the locked door from outside (days of keys).
"I BAN THEE" and in he raced.
"I WISH TO LOCK THIS DOWN" And through the line of locked down small tables he passed.
My full health GM Parry, Tactics, Anatomy, Swords, Healing character went down with one Halberd swing.
This was inside a locked house behind locked-down tables. In consideration I am surprised the RED didn't just walk through the wall actually.
Separately, one day on Arirang, as a friend and I went through the dragon dungeon (Destard), we stopped by the 7 x 7 player placed house inside the dungeon and bought some of the bandages off the vendor there.
The list goes on.
The main point here is that until "cloud" level technology is employed MMO's will continue to have hakzorz. Thus my methodology is to use different games for different outcomes.
HALO = PvP with no character development.
WoW = PvP with good character development.
LoTR = PvP with invested character development (Free to play now by the way)
UO = Best crafting and customized housing system BAR NONE! Good adventuring and exploration. Fair character development (Though different size and shapes would be better, only MMO I have played that does this passably is/was EQ2, though EVE is purported to be excellent). Substandard PvP.
A bit of a ramble.
Bottom-line (here at the bottom), for my 2 copper, go play HALO or WoW for PvP. Otherwise endure the frustration of frame rates, hacks or gank-sauce wielding gangs in UO.
Cheers.
Fact: There are cheaters in most MMOs. (True)
Assumption: Cheaters can be effectively stopped. (False)
Assumption: Good people don't cheat. (False)
Assumption: UO has a solid basis for PvP. (Discussion)
I appreciate people possessing vigor for their chosen on-line venue. I have played UO since December of the year it was launched. Way, way back then UO had valid PvP. It has not since about two years after launch.
A bold statement to be certain but not without definable merit.
My first home (7 x 7 on Pacific just above Skara-Brit cross roads) was "Smack-dab" in the middle of the area designated by yellow-red triangles on spawn and danger maps as were the fashion at the time.
I placed the house after having an account for almost six months. Now lean back and reflect for a second. That means I placed a house in UO's first year of existence.
As often occurred, one day a RED showed up. This was back when murderers could actually be skilled individual players (some were role-players) instead of gangs of cretins fearfully gathering together to apply gank-sauce to the lone adventurer.
Back on track...I had a vendor who neutrally serviced the spectrum. As such, upon seeing a visitor I would open the door and politely attempt to chat with the visitor, usually from inside my home with my TILDA key set for "Last Object". Seems safe huh?
I grew to know a fair few people and a relative safety ensued with most players. The ones who simply could not control themselves were just ignored, though not banned unless dramatic recourse was required.
Well as sure as the sun rises there came a day when a RED I had not seen previously came by...hunting.
I opened the door, said hi and he attacked me.
TILDA and the door shut. He opened the locked door from outside (days of keys).
"I BAN THEE" and in he raced.
"I WISH TO LOCK THIS DOWN" And through the line of locked down small tables he passed.
My full health GM Parry, Tactics, Anatomy, Swords, Healing character went down with one Halberd swing.
This was inside a locked house behind locked-down tables. In consideration I am surprised the RED didn't just walk through the wall actually.
Separately, one day on Arirang, as a friend and I went through the dragon dungeon (Destard), we stopped by the 7 x 7 player placed house inside the dungeon and bought some of the bandages off the vendor there.
The list goes on.
The main point here is that until "cloud" level technology is employed MMO's will continue to have hakzorz. Thus my methodology is to use different games for different outcomes.
HALO = PvP with no character development.
WoW = PvP with good character development.
LoTR = PvP with invested character development (Free to play now by the way)
UO = Best crafting and customized housing system BAR NONE! Good adventuring and exploration. Fair character development (Though different size and shapes would be better, only MMO I have played that does this passably is/was EQ2, though EVE is purported to be excellent). Substandard PvP.
A bit of a ramble.
Bottom-line (here at the bottom), for my 2 copper, go play HALO or WoW for PvP. Otherwise endure the frustration of frame rates, hacks or gank-sauce wielding gangs in UO.
Cheers.
R
RavenWinterHawk
Guest
The other thing is people see this as a game and because its a game they use what means are available.
See... UO to them isn't UO the all mighty. Its just a game. They arent attached to it. Its a game. Adding hacks and cheats is part of the game. Buying a top end computer is part of the game.
Before you go further into this... looking at perspective is sometimes important.
Because this is a game. Integrity and cheating are defined within a game non life atmosphere.
In other words... PVP is UO and all the add ons. Thats how you play the game. There perspective is everything is part of gaming.
Others perspective is the game has rules to follow to play the game fairly. Does it?
See... UO to them isn't UO the all mighty. Its just a game. They arent attached to it. Its a game. Adding hacks and cheats is part of the game. Buying a top end computer is part of the game.
Before you go further into this... looking at perspective is sometimes important.
Because this is a game. Integrity and cheating are defined within a game non life atmosphere.
In other words... PVP is UO and all the add ons. Thats how you play the game. There perspective is everything is part of gaming.
Others perspective is the game has rules to follow to play the game fairly. Does it?
False. There are cheaters in every online game that has been released to the public, including every MMO that has ever made it past alpha.
True. Cheaters can't be stopped, but the damage that they do can be limited and mitigated, and many of them can be "brought to justice".
Whatever. We're wandering into philosophy here, but I know what you are saying and basically agree with you. *singing* "What's good? Not much at all."
Well, I guess it's a matter of taste, but for me personally UO pvp is the most addictive fun I've had in any online game.
Let's see if I can boil down the "speed hacking" issue in a way that everyone can understand.
- Cheater A tries to chase down Cheater B but Cheater B gets away.
- Cheater A goes looking for a "speed hack" and installs one, but still can't catch Cheater B.
- Cheater A gets frustrated and starts screaming on Stratics about how awful a cheater Cheater B is, and how "speed hacks" are the worst problem in UO pvp.
- Ironically enough, both Cheater A and Cheater B cheat, and use a lot of the same cheats, but Cheater B actually doesn't use a "speed hack". He's tried them, but has found they don't actually do much.
- Then one day Cheater B tries chasing down Cheater C, and can't catch him, gets frustrated and goes to Stratics and starts screaming about how "speed hacks" are the worst problem in UO pvp.
- Ironically enough, Cheaters A, B and C all use most of the same cheats, but Cheater C doesn't actually use a "speed hack", he knows they don't do much. He just happens to have a very fast computer, a kick ass connection, and he knows how to configure his computer and his network to get the most out of it.
M
Megilhir
Guest
Foremost: Petulantly debating or parsing minor context does not strengthen an arguement. See current political contests for examples.
Second: Highlighting or quoting a few phrases through denigration does not strengthen an arguement. Again, see current political contests for examples.
For rational debate or discussion all parties must be rational. It is not like math wherein two negatives equal a positive. Any measure of fantacism (where the term "Fan" originates) skews the discourse.
Conclusion: Everyone can at least agree that not everyone can agree. (Get it?)
Should UO clean the system - Yes
Can/Will UO clean the system - No (At least not after the first 13 years)
Result: Irrational and inconclusive topical discourse.
Second: Highlighting or quoting a few phrases through denigration does not strengthen an arguement. Again, see current political contests for examples.
For rational debate or discussion all parties must be rational. It is not like math wherein two negatives equal a positive. Any measure of fantacism (where the term "Fan" originates) skews the discourse.
Conclusion: Everyone can at least agree that not everyone can agree. (Get it?)
Should UO clean the system - Yes
Can/Will UO clean the system - No (At least not after the first 13 years)
Result: Irrational and inconclusive topical discourse.
R
RavenWinterHawk
Guest
And you forget things like guilds that use voice over internet to coordinate PvP.
Is that cheating. No. Do most of us feel like setting that up and using it. Probably not.
Do we really feel like talking to people. Probably not. Typing is nice and confining.
Do you need it. No. But it creates and advantage when 10 PvPers are talking.
Is that cheating. No. Do most of us feel like setting that up and using it. Probably not.
Do we really feel like talking to people. Probably not. Typing is nice and confining.
Do you need it. No. But it creates and advantage when 10 PvPers are talking.
M
Megilhir
Guest
Raven presents a valid assessment.
One of the finest PvP engagements I experienced was with a collection of grandparents who wanted a healer to accompany them and spot heal. Their regular healer was out that day.
In a group of ten I did almost nothing, and that was as a healer mind you.
These folks (and I assessed them to be grandparents due to their VENT chatter) quietly and methodically wasted seven PvP Battlegrounds due to their selfless and verbally coordinated actions. I was to provide healing yet no one seemed to get damaged despite the opposition zerging, twisting, turning and doing everything possible.
The GP coordination over VENT was simpy superb and virtually prescient.
It made a HUGE difference. Normally Arathi Basin (WoW) takes a long time and painfully drags along. With these people each BG took less than 6 to 10 minutes.
One of the finest PvP engagements I experienced was with a collection of grandparents who wanted a healer to accompany them and spot heal. Their regular healer was out that day.
In a group of ten I did almost nothing, and that was as a healer mind you.
These folks (and I assessed them to be grandparents due to their VENT chatter) quietly and methodically wasted seven PvP Battlegrounds due to their selfless and verbally coordinated actions. I was to provide healing yet no one seemed to get damaged despite the opposition zerging, twisting, turning and doing everything possible.
The GP coordination over VENT was simpy superb and virtually prescient.
It made a HUGE difference. Normally Arathi Basin (WoW) takes a long time and painfully drags along. With these people each BG took less than 6 to 10 minutes.
How many times have I posted that speed hacking is not the problem that so many make it out to be? Should I do a search and reference posts going back as much as a year where I have said this? I think you can do that yourself and save me the trouble.
Was there a point to this post other than to take the opportunity to accuse me of "crying" and all the unspoken personal insults that accompany that troll?
Clearly there are always going to be those who have an advantage, whether it is the advantages offered by youth (faster reflexes, etc.), faster computers, lower latency internet service, voice communication, etc. That doesn't mean that the war against illegal advantages isn't worth fighting. This is a form of the pefect solution logical fallacy. You will rarely find a perfect solution, but you can almost always make choices that will improve a given situation.
3rd party cheat detection is a good thing, and has improved the situation with regard to cheating in UO. It has helped level the playing field both in pvp, and for merchants and crafters. Getting rid of art hacks would be another positive step that would help level the playing field in both pvp and pvm in UO, and allow honest players to be more competitive in comparison to those who have little regard for the TOS.
Which raises another point. These are the kind of advantages you not only don't want to prevent, you want to encourage them: advantages that aren't a violation of the TOS, that are the result of planning, preparation, teamwork, and various manifestations of skill and intelligence. Kudos to the "grandparents" in this example.
This question has been asked before in different ways, and I was expecting it to be asked again. Why do I care? Well there are a number of reasons, some of which may be more comprehensible than others. There are selfish reasons, unselfish reasons, and even a philosophical reason or two.
- First off a selfish reason. I am a competitive person, I always have been. That's one of the main reasons I love pvp. I also try to play clean and follow the TOS that I have agreed to. So it stands to reason that if I want to compete, and I care about competing, that I would want everyone to be playing by the same rules I do, to essentially be playing the same game as I do. In other words, I want a level playing field just like most claim to want, but I am not willing to cheat to get it.
- Next an unselfish reason. See the above reason, I also want that for everyone who pvp's, and most especially for those few wonderful honest people who are brave enough to venture into the realm of pvp. I have always tried to stand up for those are are being bullied and put down, and not much in UO annoys me more than a cheater trash talking an honest player and calling them "trash" or a "loser" after winning a pvp battle. Nothing also makes me much happier in UO than helping an honest player beat a cheater.
- A philosophical reason. Games for me are really a way to learn tactics and strategies, and develop skills and "muscles" that will serve you in "real life". For me the war against cheating is a battle of "good vs. evil" and if I can learn how to fight that kind of battle here in a context that really is relatively meaningless, perhaps I can take the lessons I've learnt here and apply them in a context where the stakes are much higher and more meaningful.
- And finally, I enjoy UO. UO is a hobby, and I want the game to be a success and continue for as long as possible. I think cheating is a form of gaming "cancer" and is bad for the game. I think EA has lost a lot of subscribers over the years specifically because of cheating, and both UO's and EA's reputation have been damaged as a result. I may be hopelessly idealistic, but I think that a "cleaner" game will translate to more subscriptions, and a longer life for the game, not to mention a better reputation.
And there's actually another reason as well. I think that a modern, well supported client like the enhanced client is important to the future of UO. And I think that one of the things that is holding back the wider acceptance of the enhanced client is the availability of cheats for the classic client, cheats which offer significant advantages and for which there are no consequences or possible consequences to deter their use.
To put it more clearly, why would a cheater who gains a significant advantage using cheats, and for the use of which there are no possible consequences, switch to a client that doesn't offer that functionality? The answer is, he won't. The enhanced client will not gain wide acceptance until the cheating monster has been subdued with regard to the classic client.
3rd party cheat detection, and the enforcement of the TOS with regard to 3rd party cheats was an important first step, but there is more to do, and I think getting rid of the art hacks is the next important step. I find it rather ironic that many of those who loudly denounce the enhanced client, calling it "hideous" and "worthless" are using art hacks in the classic client that completely remove the illusion of immersion and are blatantly ugly.
It was telling to me that within days of the recent wave of action against cheaters in pvp in UO I had a number of hard core pvp'rs asking me all kinds of questions about the enhanced client, and how to set it up and use it, and what mods were available for it.
You are offended by the fact that I try to use proper grammar and interesting language? I guess I should polish up on my "leet speak", or try to sound more like a twelve year old, to see if I can get through to you...
Seems to me that anytime anyone confronts you on a supposed issue you resort to nonsense in every...single...one...of...your...threads. If you have something to post, please feel free. If your common answer is going to be along the lines of a mom joke, please don't.
M
Megilhir
Guest
@ Llewen comment 11:12 AM: For specific correlation read the post cited.
I object to the term brave being applied to a virtual game, as well as it's association with a game mechanic.
As a retired Airborne Ranger who commanded in the 101st Airborne Division (AASLT) I suggest there are other venues to which that appellation applies. Definitely NOT a computer game.
What bravery is there, honestly? Personal bravery? Physical bravery? Emotional bravery?
No indeed, not by any real association other than perhaps a disssociative identity disorder. In which case the projection of such patterns of perceiving and interacting with realities environment simple equate to disfunctional or perhaps sociological, albeit functional, at best. At the outer most one could potentially surmise ethical or moral bravery as relevant, yet if this applicable then the individual has failed at the base level of integrity as applied to the predominantly Indo-European considerations referenced and is therefore outside the parameters of this discourse as applied.
In others words, UO is a game and I politely encourage that it be viewed as such.
Sadly, the current technology and fiscal reality do not support the actualization of this thread.
Lastly, Asian cultures do not perceive the aforementioned actions as cheating, rather it is considered ignorant NOT to do as these threads have protested against. That is not Racist (As an aside, humans acting toward humans cannot be racist actually -ethnicist yes, racist no.) it is simply applying cultural understanding against this aspect of the venue and discourse.
Would it be great if UO cleaned up? Indeed.
Will this occur? Unlikely.
As such, are there better venues for PvP? Definately.
There you have it.
I object to the term brave being applied to a virtual game, as well as it's association with a game mechanic.
As a retired Airborne Ranger who commanded in the 101st Airborne Division (AASLT) I suggest there are other venues to which that appellation applies. Definitely NOT a computer game.
What bravery is there, honestly? Personal bravery? Physical bravery? Emotional bravery?
No indeed, not by any real association other than perhaps a disssociative identity disorder. In which case the projection of such patterns of perceiving and interacting with realities environment simple equate to disfunctional or perhaps sociological, albeit functional, at best. At the outer most one could potentially surmise ethical or moral bravery as relevant, yet if this applicable then the individual has failed at the base level of integrity as applied to the predominantly Indo-European considerations referenced and is therefore outside the parameters of this discourse as applied.
In others words, UO is a game and I politely encourage that it be viewed as such.
Sadly, the current technology and fiscal reality do not support the actualization of this thread.
Lastly, Asian cultures do not perceive the aforementioned actions as cheating, rather it is considered ignorant NOT to do as these threads have protested against. That is not Racist (As an aside, humans acting toward humans cannot be racist actually -ethnicist yes, racist no.) it is simply applying cultural understanding against this aspect of the venue and discourse.
Would it be great if UO cleaned up? Indeed.
Will this occur? Unlikely.
As such, are there better venues for PvP? Definately.
There you have it.
This is also an example of a logical fallacy, although I'm finding it hard to put my finger on the exact technical term. The truth is there are many different kinds of fears, and many different kinds of bravery in facing those fears. There are fears in life and death situations, and there are fears in contexts that are much more benign. The terms "fear" and "bravery" still apply, regardless of the level of extremity.
It can take a brave little girl to watch scene with a villain in it in a Disney movie if that little girl has an active imagination and finds that villain frightening. And of course it takes an entirely different level of bravery to go on patrol in hostile territory in the face of snipers and ide's. But they are both forms of bravery, and the term still applies, and calling them both by the same name does nothing to denigrate or diminish either one.
The truth is you support the cheating behaviour that I oppose, and you are having no luck poking holes in my arguments. So you are resorting to trolling and name calling. I suppose I shouldn't respond to you when you do that, but I guess I'm not perfect either...
M
Megilhir
Guest
@ Llewen 01:31 PM: Read post for context.
"...a logical fallacy"
Incorrect application, admirable attempt at deflection, but wrong.
Saying something is not without proving what it is, well, it simply is not.
Just an aside, I do not disagree with your perspectives often. This time I do. The linguistic debate theorem of "if - then" applies if logic is applied. Enter "illogical" at any point and failure occurs thus rendering the discourse irrelevant and inconsequentially inert.
I feel this has devolved to an oraborean debate cycle.
Good fortune with it.
Wow/Halo for PvP....peace - out.
"...a logical fallacy"
Incorrect application, admirable attempt at deflection, but wrong.
Saying something is not without proving what it is, well, it simply is not.
Just an aside, I do not disagree with your perspectives often. This time I do. The linguistic debate theorem of "if - then" applies if logic is applied. Enter "illogical" at any point and failure occurs thus rendering the discourse irrelevant and inconsequentially inert.
I feel this has devolved to an oraborean debate cycle.
Good fortune with it.
Wow/Halo for PvP....peace - out.
You mean...I am not allowed to use peet and repeet too? When you fail to answer the first time, most people will re-ask the questions. If you fail to answer again, people will just assume you are avoiding or have nothing else to say. Mimic the other person and people will know you have absolutely nothing to add.
That makes you a common variety troll.
Get it?
Got it?
GOOD!
Sarcasm begets sarcasm. If you dish it out, be ready to get the same served back to you.
Don't like you? No, I don't like your attitude. Most people you say *good fight* to in game will return the sentiment. You? You just give the middle finger and tell the other person how bad they are when YOU die.
Again, if you want to reply to a topic of your own or someone elses...perhaps consider adding factual information to back it up. Crying over dying really should not be a reason for a new daily thread on stratics. If you don't like me pointing this out...frack off. I don't want the devs. to base their decisions over your inability to stay alive in a video game.
You are confusing me. You were offended by my using the word "brave" in reference to an honest player entering into pvp with your typical cheater in pvp. I answered your statement that you felt the word didn't apply directly, I didn't "deflect" anything.
The logical fallacy is specifically that the greater invalidates the lesser. Specifically that because the word "brave" applies to the extreme example of a soldier in battle, it does not apply to the lesser example of a player facing whatever lesser fears they may have in a pvp context in a video game.
That fear might be as simple as the fear of failure, or embarrassment - although I certainly could also find more extreme examples if I wished as I'm sure anyone who has taken part in pvp more than once or twice in an online situation has witnessed examples of "cyber bullying", which we all know can have serious consequences in the lives of those are are susceptible to it.
But this is seriously off topic, and perhaps if you wish to continue this discussion we should take it to pm's.
A few years back, I beat this dead horse into the ground. Worrying about it to the point of constantly being angry throughout the day, fights with my family, to just hating to play UO. I have many theories of why "pvp cheats, etc" get approved or go "unnoticed". I don't think they are unnoticed at all. If EA were to let the cat out the bag on what it allows as far as pvp and other things go, you'd have a dead game. It doesn't take a degree in law to see what is really going on here. When you see countless toons at luna bank, blatantly scripting to build skill, you finally come to the conclusion that EA does not care about this. And good luck finding a gm these days who doesn't quickly throw up the " please report all harassment and bugs to such and such .com." Back in the day we loved gm's why? Because they actually fixed things. I don't even think they are really logged in half the time. So I feel your pain. When I came back to the game after a very lengthy break, I decided to hang up pvp altogether. I just use it when needed like doing a spawn. I have found an extreme amount of peace doing pvm stuff like peerlesses etc. And honestly, it's more fun. Until they fix pvp(let's see how long that takes) I'll keep my blades sharp and ready to go but until then, I have no place running around the lag that's caused by cowardly, script-happy opponents. Good luck to you sir.
That's pretty easy. I define an "honest player" as one who takes their agreement to the TOS seriously and sincerely attempts to play in accordance with that agreement. I define your "typical cheater" as one who does not take their agreement with that TOS seriously and wilfully and knowingly uses tools and tactics which violate that agreement.
I would like to meet one person who has read the entire TOS agreement in UO. 95% of Terms of Service are nothing but a formality and an extremely general sense of what is expected of players. By your own definition, anybody using a vendor search website is a typical cheater. How many honest players does that leave?
Actually using those sites isn't a violation of the TOS. It's a grey area because those sites do use illegal third party apps to index vendors, but the act of using them isn't a violation of the TOS. EA has no legal interest in, or authority over, what sites their clients choose to visit. But if you want to discuss the ethics of using those sites, I suggest you start another thread because that is ot for this thread.
And the TOS actually does get pretty specific, and far more people than you seem to think have read it in it's entirety, as have I. And regardless of whether you have actually read it you still have to agree to it in order to access the services EA provides on the UO servers, so you are responsible for all of it, whether you have read it or not.
Allow me to refer you to this thread. You are a case in point for an awful lot of what was posted there...
*Squak* Jibberjabber Jibberjabber *Squak*
Wow..look at how much the OP got to up his post count in this worthless diatribe. Once again, I bow to the UO Stratics UHall most prolific troll master.
Good job.
Wow..look at how much the OP got to up his post count in this worthless diatribe. Once again, I bow to the UO Stratics UHall most prolific troll master.
Good job.
It rather appears that you have no credible answer or response to the content of my posts, so you've resorted to your typical trolling and baseless ridicule. You are another one who supports and actively, by your own admission, participates in the cheating behaviour that I oppose. I suppose it stands to reason that you wouldn't want to contribute in any constructive way to a discussion on how to put an end to that behaviour.
I appreciated your honesty so long ago, perhaps you could explain to us why you think that eliminating art hacks would be a bad idea, or unfair in some way?
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