The runic distribution curve - analysed (a bit long and technical)

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G

Guest

Guest
Hi Zardo!
After I burnt aggie (pub 19) hammer and did not produce 1 single armor piece to keep. Smelted them all back to ingots /php-bin/shared/images/icons/frown.gif., I read your previous post about d100 and not.

Then I read Evocare's (reply) post and I was eager to wait your suggestion and I just loved it, even it was more than 100 words /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif.

Anyway long story short, good analyzis and suggestions, that's something that Dev should take seriously.

Cheers,
Aikka
 
Z

Zardo Zap

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


Tying arms lore into your ability to choose what properties are added would also be nice.


<hr></blockquote>

I agree - I just didn't think of it. But having "complimentary" skills to the smithing would add depth to the system.

Zardo
 
C

Clovis of LS

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

As far as the distribution of intensities, it is using the magic item system's intensity generation. We didn't want to duplicate the generation code in two places. We felt that it would be adequate for the runic hammers.

<hr></blockquote>

Joe Blow Recalls to Ice, Kills a WW (30 seconds) Random generator creates an item.

Legendary Smith Joe, (patiently collects BODs for 8 months) and finally gets a Valorite hammer. Legendary Smith Joe Creates a weapon and same Random generator creates an item.

Time involved in creating these 2 items 30 seconds and 8 months. Yes I see where the code re-use was important and justified to keep the game balanced.
So, If I were killing WWs instead of collecting BODs, I would definatly get better items since I would have many many many many more rolls of the dice.
(Sorry I'm cranky today)

read these threads, many many good ideas here. Possibly come up with some fix for pub 20 and maybe a re-haul for pub 21? is that in anyways possible?
if not please let us know when you guys think you will be able to get around to these problems. (this concernes tailoring as well because spined and horned runics cant create anything of even GM excep Quality now days)

Sorry had to come back to leave on a good note though..
Thanks so much for the bod books and one click bod collecting.. I have soo much more time to actually play now /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
 
G

gralph7

Guest
What they said /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
&lt;&lt;As far as the distribution of intensities, it is using the magic item system's intensity generation. We didn't want to duplicate the generation code in two places. We felt that it would be adequate for the runic hammers.



Joe Blow Recalls to Ice, Kills a WW (30 seconds) Random generator creates an item.

Legendary Smith Joe, (patiently collects BODs for 8 months) and finally gets a Valorite hammer. Legendary Smith Joe Creates a weapon and same Random generator creates an item.

Time involved in creating these 2 items 30 seconds and 8 months. Yes I see where the code re-use was important and justified to keep the game balanced.
So, If I were killing WWs instead of collecting BODs, I would definatly get better items since I would have many many many many more rolls of the dice.
(Sorry I'm cranky today)
&gt;&gt;

No, no Dev ever said that distrubution of properties on runic crafted items were linear.
They did say that the reason that charges on hammers were reduced was to limit the number of very powerfull items.

What powerfull?
Where?
 
N

Nakor315

Guest
My suggestions on fixing runics are to remove the "chop" effect on intensities. There should still be a curve but it should not be weighted so heavily on eitehr end.

I think you should also raise the exceptional bonus on armor, not up to 14 but maybe to 10. This will bring them closer to what you can create normally but still a little lower to account for any other properties.

For exceptional weapons I feel that any runic made exceptional weapon that gets a damage increase property should be better than a non-runic exceptional weapon. My idea for this is if you get a damage increase on a weapon that is also exceptional it should recieve an exceptional bonus of 31%. I chose this number because the lowest intensity you can get for damage increase is 5% with a Dull Copper runic, this will give a total damage increase of 36%. yes I know this is not really much of a difference, but it does remove the feeling of losing a property that can happen the way it is now. It will also be possible to make weapons with more than 50%, but it will still be very rare and I feel that it is reasonable for the amount of time it takes to get most runics.

I would also like to see a way of imposing some control on the properties, possibly as the expense of more charge or even the use of additional special materials. One thought I had for special materials for this is different types of crystals that could be found as loot on creatures and also mined (from the crystals in Malas and introduce some crystal formations in all other facets). For mining I thought you should need to be a GM miner or higher. Mining Power Scrolls could be added as BOD rewards.
 
P

Poi Pounder

Guest
Another suggestion to that would be to make the damage increase a max of 10% over the 35% for exceptional weapon. Total max would be 45% DI. This would make it better than normal exceptional pieces and reduce the jipped feeling of rolling DI and still only getting 35%, thus losing that property.

As for armor I agree that they should give up some of the exceptional property and be able to get 10 or even 14 increase in resist on top of the properties added. A runic exceptional should always be better than non runic exceptional, otherwise what is the point of runics?
 
N

Nakor315

Guest
I think that adding the percentage directly to the damage increase would be too much. That would end up making it possible to get 135% with a valorite which I think is too high. Though you did give me another idea on how to deal with the damage increase. 35% would be the base for exceptional if you get a damage increase with a runic you would get the percentage of the 35 added on top of the exceptional bonus. So the minimum would be 10% of 35 to give you a 38%, while the maximum would be 70% with a Valorite. This way would give a higher bonus at lower levels and smaller bonuses at higher levels than my previous suggestion.
 
J

Javi

Guest
I skipped threads here and there - but the best idea I have seen I think is Thodin's.

Not too many smiths, at this point, care for my opinions; however, Thodin's seems to be the best in terms of balance - it would be different if there were no item insurance, but unfortunately there is and the other suggested 'fixes' seem like they would cause an explosion of uber weapons - obviously I hope extensive testing will be done if and when any changes to the system are decided upon.

Putting things into perspective - a lot of smiths seem to mention artifacts - I am in Fel quite a bit with most of my characters and I have yet to see anyone wielding an artifact weapon except for the blade of righteousness(which is not that great for PvP anyway). Granted that the higher end runics are fairly rare - I know several people that have just been storing their hammers for the day they become more useful - I would not doubt that there are many who do this and that of course would disrupt any idea of keeping the weapons produced to a minimum - besides, with item insurance, making great weapons with really any frequency that most smiths here seem to want would only result in the devaluation of the items and eventual uselessness of smiths in general because everyone will have what the want. Of course there will always be a market, but it's not like UO is constantly getting new players(and a lot of people sell their accounts anyway resulting in new players already being set-up and not needing smiths). Moreover, I think the whole comparable to artifact level idea is ridiculous - it's not like artifacts are flooding the economy, most of the artifacts I see are locked down on display in houses and those are the ones you can steal, not the ones that are Doom boss loot. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that items essentially(I have heard a one story of an item being lost to an attempted repair and I have attempted countless times to repair items with my tinker, ~75 skill, and never broken a thing - that's just ********) cannot be destroyed either via repair or long-term use(at least make it so that repairs decrease durability - like it did before, at least then people would have to get new items now and again).

[Rant] Really I just want the system back to the way it was pre-pub16 but like that will ever happen. Problem is, this new system is probably going to take a minimum of a year to get anywhere near the balance of the old system - in the meantime the players are expected to just take it and understand that it's a work in progress. Too bad for the player that can't/doesn't have time to go monster farming and/or attain the fabulous items - PvP is closed to them...at least for the most part - of course, with the way this game is going it's only a matter of time before OSI decides that Felucca is not 'cost-effective'(probably the scapegoat they will use) and alters everything minus Siege/Mugen to the Trammel rule-set. Of course, with the neglect that Siege receives as it is, they will probably just abandon it anyway and leave it to rot until the players just abandon it themselves.

Here is a crazy idea - fix the damn bugs that have been around for months and in some cases year(s). Then develop new systems - I can't believe(well I can, but I think it's totally ridiculous) it when OSI makes statements like "it's a known issue we are working on it" and still a year later the issue sits un-fixed. Of course, the other favorite "that bug is now a 'feature'" &lt;---- BLOW ME! If the programmers can't fix the bugs, it would seem like new programmers should be hired - too bad that even that would probably do little since most likely trying to sort through all of the code would be a monumental under-taking and something tells me that a programmer that is being replaced will be un-helpful in bringing a new person up to speed. Whatever...I'm done.
[/Rant]
 
S

StealthMonkey

Guest
Actually, the more I think of Thodin's idea, the more I like that one too. Like he says, it would take flexibility and dedication to be a competitive smith again but it wouldn't be absolutely necessary.

*bump*
/php-bin/shared/images/icons/flash.gif/php-bin/shared/images/icons/alien.gif/php-bin/shared/images/icons/eek.gif/php-bin/shared/images/icons/eek4.gif/php-bin/shared/images/icons/arcade.gif/php-bin/shared/images/icons/smash.gif
 
C

Cantaloupe Joe

Guest
I like the idea of having the chance to create at least one definate great item when using valorite hammer, or the chance of having one high end item when using one of the lesser runic hammers. I understand that OSI has this big fear that "uber" weapons are going to flood the market and unbalance the game, but let's be serious now. There are only going to be 2 valorite hammers per shard a year. A guarantee of only 2 GREAT items a year compared to how many artifacts spawn over a year doesn't sound like a plan for a system breakdown. People work long and hard for these rewards and expect the payoff to be, at the very least, equal to the work put in to it. As a side note, the whole BOD reward system needs to be revamped. How many useless and heavy prospector's tools, or gargoyle pickaxes, (which are more of a threat to the miner than a boon,) do we really need?!

I also like the the idea of being able to have better control over what special properties go into an item that a smith (or a tailor) try to create. And I agree that there should be some sort of trade for this ability, such as extra charges being used. Or some other fair tradeoff. Should OSI decide to impliment something like this, it is important that they do not create a tradeoff that is unfair to the player, such as letting them have greater control, but less intensities. This would only serve to continue the grief felt by crafters.

Another suggestion to fixing runic hammers that I've read and agree upon is letting skill level play a part in the outcome of the quality of intensities on a crafted item. It only makes sense that a legendary blacksmith can create a better item than a grandmaster. Perhaps a formula can be used similar to the regular smithing formula. For every .1 skill point over 100, bump the percentage roll up by .2%. That whould give a smith with 120 blacksmithing skill an extra 4% added to the roll for the intensities of properties when using a runic hammer. An extra 4% might just be what the smith needs to bump his/her item into the next bracket, and at the same time, not be that overly powerful or unbalanced. This leads me to my next point, which will probably cause some booing and hissing, but please try to keep an open mind when considering this. I do not think that ASH should be allowed to be used at teh same time with a runic hammer, and here are teh reasons why. First off, if OSI were to use the above skill bonus, a +60 ASH would add 12% bonus, and added with the legendary 4% would give a 16% bonus which could eventaully lead to the flooding of really great weapons that OSI fears. A second reason is that thinking realisticaly, a smith can't use two hammers at the same time to smith something. One hammer grants you a certain type of special power, another hammer grants you a different type of power. While in the game it is possible to equip an ASH and then use the runic hammer in your backpack, it's not very realistic. It's akin to having gm swordsmanship and gm fencing and trying to use both a katana and a kryss at the same time, or even just gm swordsmanship and trying to use two katanas at the same time (although the idea of a new two one-handed fighting skill would certainally add some new interest to UO.)

Now, don't get me wrong about ASHs. I know that currently they are pretty useless and they do definately need to be fixed. This is a little bit off teh topic of runic hammers, but it is something that needs to be discussed as well. Currently, ASHs are only useful to do three things: make dragon scale armor, make swamp dragon barding, and to give a better chance at making plate armor. As with so many things in UO, to fix one problem requires a whole chain reaction of fixes. Here's an example. ASHs are good at making swamp dragon barding, but rarely sell because so few people ride swamp dragons because AOS really nerfed pets and destroyed swamp dragons. As a pet, they had, and still do, have total crap for attacking power, and AOS took away their only useful ability, that of a damage sponge, by taking away their large amount of HP. Few people also ride swampies because while they require 0 taming to control them, they take an insanely high taming level for such a pathetic creature. The ridiculously high taming level causes mid-level tamer/bards to go out in frustration and provoke cows to kill their herders, which in turn cause the npc herders to cry out with their dieing breath, "Curse you OSI, why is gm herding such a totally nothing skill?!" So first, if anyone is to ever bother making dragon barding, swamp dragons need to be made more available and less useless. Second, MAKE DRAGON SCALE ARMOR WORTH WEARING!!! Why on earth is such a high level crafted item so utterly pointless?? This also applies to plate armor. Why are you making it so much harder to craft an item that has the same sum total protection as ringmail? OSI needs to go back to sturdier armor gives better protection. And here's a suggestion for making ASH worth having. Just as draon scale armor is a special armor that requires an ASH for any real chance at making it gm, create a new weapon that would require the ASH. To do this right, and give the ASH an edge, it would have to be something that couldn't be crafted using a runic, so it could possibly be made out of a special material in the same way the dragonscale armor is.

Anyways, I know that was really long, and not totally commited to runic hammers, but hopefully it gives a few new ideas for people to kick around some.
 
T

Thodin

Guest
One thing I have to disagree with you upon there is that any skill link with exceptional bonus, in my opinion, should be for below and up to GM.

Although ASH provide some correction in this matter, linking exceptional bonus to having powerscrolls is making being scrolled manditory, when it was only ever supposed to be nice.
 
C

Cantaloupe Joe

Guest
That's a good point, and I can see where you're coming from with that. To ensure that you made a better weapon, people would feel the need to have to scroll up. And deciding to scroll up isn't a "free" option that can be made by all players, whereas deciding to spend 100 of your 700 skill points to become a better smith is. Thanks for your feedback =)
 
Z

Zardo Zap

Guest
I must admit that I think being able to choose some properties is important - especially if they keep limited charges in the high end hammers, but like you I think you shouldn't be able to choose *all* the properties.

I must admit my natural conclusion when I saw the ranges were straight line, rather than any form of curve - how heavily would you have it weighted? Call me simple but I like and understand straightline.

Finally I note Hanse's comments on the latest HOC chat:

<blockquote><hr>


Lord-Xanthor - *[MV]Vedrix* With the increase of resists on normal non-runic armour, is there a plan to increase the potential of runics (total resists)?
Hanse - The potential is already much higher than non-runic items. It's just the average rolls below exceptional non-runic bonuses.
Hanse - We're looking at the issue, but no solution has been reached yet. I keep a sharp eye out for good ideas on the stratics boards, as do the other devs that read those boards. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
Hanse - So, if you have a good idea, please post it...Thanks!



<hr></blockquote>

Does this mean he doesn't think any of our ideas so far are good? /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

Zardo
 
C

Clovis of LS

Guest
Lol, Has Hanse every used a runic?

Using anything below a gold runic and anything below a barbed runic it is Mathimatically impossible to create armor that has the same bonuses as non-runic except. (actually horned and bronze it is possible but requires max intensisties on all properties which never happens) Even with the higher runics it Averages out to be lower than GM excep quality. (this he does seam to admit)

There are plenty of GREAT IDEAS on this thread Mr. Hanse. Do you need glasses for that sharp eye of yours? Come dialog with us here a bit.. Talk to us, we don't bite /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif ..
 
B

Belganon

Guest
I have to agree with several of your suggestions, and would add several more to eliminate some of the ambiguous properties that really don't belong in the quotient.

---Make the distribution of properties be equal for every possiblilty between the minimums and maximum intensities for each hammer type used, raising any rolls lower than the minimum, to the hammers low end and lowering any if it exceeds it's high end.

---Allow the skill of the smith to increase the chance of higher quality items, and make it so that you can equip an Ancient Smithing Hammer while using the runic, as before.

---Allow some sort of limited "Choice" of the properties as outlined in Thodin's post.

---Eliminate "Durability Increase" from the possible magical properties, increase the instances of "Powder of Temperment" as a BOD reward and create one for Tailoring that would allow you to manually increase the durability of leather items as well.

---Create another BOD reward that will give the ability to Lower the Strength Requiremants on metal items as a reward and eliminate "Lower Requirements" as a possible magical runic property, as well.. (Something like "Mithril Oil" or any other suitable name) One for Tailoring could be considered as well.

---Do not allow "Faster Casting" to appear on any item that does not generate "Spell Channeling" as a definate property, as well.

---Duplicate properties are fine, as long as any percentage roll properties that get duplicated, get added together and are allowed to exceed the maximum for that specific hammer.
Any duplication of the same "Slayer" creature, should be re-rolled.
Duplication of "Mage Weapon", "Use Best Weapon", and "Spell Channeling" should also be re-rolled, but duplicating of "Night Sight", "Self Repair" and " Faster Casting" should be allowed.

---Reroll any instances of "Damage Increase" when the "Exceptional" bonus of 35% exceeds the possible maximum for the hammer. (Bronze and Below)
Add any "Damage Increase" to Gold and higher runics, to the "Exceptional" bonus of 35%, and not to the original start-off point of 20%(Assuming the weapon is exceptional, of course.)

---Reduction of the "Magery" penalty for the property "Mage Weapon" should improve with the quality of the runic hammer, allowing a Valortie runic to decrease the penalty to half or lower than that of a Dull Copper hammer.

---Do not allow "Damage Modifiers" to alter the "Damage Types" inherant in the ore chosen by the smith when using the runic hammer. Increase or decrease the "Damage Types" not specific to the ore chosen, but leave "his" choices alone.

---Make the instances of "Neon" weapons be a "Color Only" modification and do not allow the change to eliminate some or all of the magical properties, as it does now.

---Lastly, go back to the original 50 charges for all runic hammers.
Considering the difficulty in gaining any runic hammer, and the exponential increase in gaining any higher ones, this change was the single most disheartening (and least criticised) change made to the runic system.
What was once the greatest reward in the runic system, became something that wasn't even worth trying for.
At 15 charges, even with any/all of the proposed modifications, it will still be way too much trouble for what it will be worth.

Although I'm inclined to agree that Arms Lore would be a pre-requisit to making any armor or weapon, I do not believe that it would be proper to tie Anatomy or Tactics to the making of either.
All three of those skills should/could be tied to the wielder with better believability, whereas Magery and Arms Lore would be my choices to enhance the "Smithing with Runics" Skill.
 
Z

Zardo Zap

Guest
We certainly have amongst us put out a lot of good suggestions, with a surprising amount of agreement and yet there is absolutely no feed back.

Sigh - well maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and there will be somthing to fix runics in pub 20.

Zardo
 
G

gandolfofaol

Guest
pssst... rumor has it that there is a boost to runics in pub 32 currently scheduled for release in December 2004.
 
C

Clovis of LS

Guest
Actually it didnt pass QA for pub 32, so they are pushing it to pub 33 or 34 which is planned some time in 2006
 
G

gralph7

Guest
&lt;&lt;Now, don't get me wrong about ASHs. I know that currently they are pretty useless and they do definately need to be fixed. This is a little bit off teh topic of runic hammers, but it is something that needs to be discussed as well. Currently, ASHs are only useful to do three things: make dragon scale armor, make swamp dragon barding, and to give a better chance at making plate armor. &gt;&gt;

I must disagree with that statement. My gm smith uses an ash regularly to make exceptional runic weapons. When using a runic hammer it is important to me to be able to get that exceptional bonus every time.
I've made a lot of weapons with bronze and gold hammers, and I was really shocked and disappointed when I tried with the one aggie hammer I've been able to get - none of the weapons were as good as the ones made with bronze hammers.
Oh well it was better than getting another 60 ash, I suppose.
 

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re: Faster Casting/Spell Channeling.

There is plenty of use for FC weapons on non-spell-channeling items. Not all Paladins or Necromancers take magery. And, anyone on the Paladin boards can tell you how damn useful FC is for their spells.

FC is -1 on spell-channeling weapons by default, and having FC 1 come up as a property on them only cancels out the FC -1.
 
C

Clovis of LS

Guest
The statement our friend is saying is true.. you can't use ASHs and runics at the same time..

and also I would like to say.. when was the last time anyone has wanted dragon armor? plate armor? its all the same since aos.. 15 resist per piece..

If it actually Added the Material Resists to dragon armor it could be usefull again maybe.. but making iron or valorite dragon is the same.. why even bother making valorite??
same with dragon barding for that matter..
 
U

Uten Ansiktet

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Joe Blow Recalls to Ice, Kills a WW (30 seconds) Random generator creates an item.

Legendary Smith Joe, (patiently collects BODs for 8 months) and finally gets a Valorite hammer. Legendary Smith Joe Creates a weapon and same Random generator creates an item.

Time involved in creating these 2 items 30 seconds and 8 months. Yes I see where the code re-use was important and justified to keep the game balanced.

<hr></blockquote>

Yup, this is the truth. Perfectly said BTW. Dev's care? Nope.
 
G

gralph7

Guest
&lt;&lt;The statement our friend is saying is true.. you can't use ASHs and runics at the same time.. &gt;&gt;

The workaround has been posted many times.
You can use both hammers at the same time, and it uses charges from both hammers.
You most certainly can use both hammers at the same time. I havent tried it on test center yet, but up untill yesterday I have used ash and runic hammer to craft weapons.

&lt;&lt;and also I would like to say.. when was the last time anyone has wanted dragon armor? plate armor? its all the same since aos.. 15 resist per piece..
&gt;&gt;
This is also incorrect. Exceptional dragon scale armor has more. Iirc its 37 per piece. Not gonna make a 70s suit with it, but for instance with red scales you can get ~20 fire resist which can be handy.
 
H

Henru

Guest
He was talking base resists. All armor has 15 base resist. Dragon armor may have 37 resists per piece, but valorite ringmail has 42 resists per piece and is infinitely easier to craft. There is no reason that the hardest armor to craft should be the most useless.
 
C

Cantaloupe Joe

Guest
Actually, I never said that you "couldn't" use a runic and an ASH at the same time. I'm fully aware of the fact that people in their never ending quest to get around the system have figured out how to use the two simultaniously. My point was that people "shouldn't" be able to use the two at the same time. Hammer A gives you ability X. Hammer B gives you ability Y. Holding both hammers at the same time should not suddenly transfer powers so that now hammer A has both X and Y abilities.

And, as you proved my other point with your statement, most people just use ASHs whenever they're using a runic hammer. My follow-up was that there needs to be a more useful function for ASHs which will allow people who own them to use them in other ways that are beneficial instead of just a back seat cheat.

As for plate armor, who really uses it anymore? And if you want exceptional pieces with the highest total points, just use tongs. With publish 19, a simple pair of tongs can now make armor with better defense than a runic can make. I've been making verite chainmail using said tongs and ending up with total resist averaging from 40-43 points per piece of chainmail. While this is nice, it is indeed really screwed up, since I get the same resist total from verite gm plate. Since the plate is so much harder to make, it shold have a higher total resist, but it doesn't. This is just one more thing added to the long lists of problems UO is currently having with its craftable armor.
 
G

gralph7

Guest
&lt;&lt;Actually, I never said that you "couldn't" use a runic and an ASH at the same time. I'm fully aware of the fact that people in their never ending quest to get around the system have figured out how to use the two simultaniously. My point was that people "shouldn't" be able to use the two at the same time. Hammer A gives you ability X. Hammer B gives you ability Y. Holding both hammers at the same time should not suddenly transfer powers so that now hammer A has both X and Y abilities.

And, as you proved my other point with your statement, most people just use ASHs whenever they're using a runic hammer. My follow-up was that there needs to be a more useful function for ASHs which will allow people who own them to use them in other ways that are beneficial instead of just a back seat cheat.&gt;&gt;

It has been stated on this board by a dev member that using both hammers was as designed, and most certainly NOT an exploit.
If you think it should not have been designed that way, you of course are welcome to your opinion. You are not entitled to say I am cheating to use that method, in my opinion.

I can certainly agree that there are many things in the smithing system which need to be different, as the many posts in this thread have stated.
Peace.
 
Z

Zardo Zap

Guest
I must admit I am a bit stumped over the need/reason for the +30 ASH and the +60 ASH - given that they are the reward equivalents of a gold or agapite hammer.

Certainly I don't know many smiths who would prefer the ash to the equivalent runic (even when runics are as awful as they are now), but then again maybe I miss the obvious.

Until there comes a reason to make plate and more importantly (for ASHs) a reason to make Dragon armour then high-end ASH's are useless. Yes low end ASH's are okay for helping to fill in lbods but you would need to remind me WHY you want to make runic plate before I agree that they are helpful with runics.

Certainly at all levels of ASHs I am pretty sure I prefer the runic hammer equivalent, and if they ever fix the top-end runics I will be absolutely sure /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif. I tend to think that when you have random rewards, some attempt should be made to make them all of equal worth.

Zardo
 
G

gralph7

Guest
Of course all are disapointed to get an ash for a good lbod. No one wants an ash instead of a high runic, but they can be usefull (except the 60- I can't see any use at all for that now).

I'm guessing you have a legendary or at least a 115 smith. Those do not need anything over a 15 ash to make 100% exceptional for most items, but gm smith does.

The chance to get another 60 ash and the truly awfull items made with aggie hammer are the reasons I do not fill lbods for them anymore. Far too much effort to get the bods for very little reward. Bronze hammers make on average much better items, and are much easier to get.

I would like to see durability as a mod removed. We have powder of temperament for that, and its sad to get several rolls for durability on a high hammer. And multiple rolls on any one property seems to me to be not so great. Seems to me only time I get multiple rolls its for the more common properties, so it looks like I'm missing properties.
 
G

gralph7

Guest
&lt;&lt;Eliminate the "chop" effect and replace it with a curve that shrinks to fit an intensity range that has a min and max? Use a d100 roll for runic hammers? Some of the above?&gt;&gt;

Yes, Please.
Or if thats too much trouble, just give back the 50 charges on all hammers.
It is clear now that the rationale behind the nerf is flawed.

It would not be a perfect solution, but probably easier to code, and might happen before pub 40. Any relief would be appreciated.
 
C

Clovis of LS

Guest
Complete silence on behalf of reds concerning this issue since 7/30

that is a long time, to be waiting on a response what ever it may be.

would it be possible to get an update on where this issue stands (even if its in the corner of your office fallen behind the cabinet)

Thanks
 
D

Designer_Hanse

Guest
I read the posts on this board frequently. I've been very busy, though.

I'll post more information on runic changes, when we have information on our website. The changes/fixes are currently scheduled for publish 21.
 
Z

zoaron

Guest
&gt;&gt;&gt;The changes/fixes are currently scheduled for publish 21. &lt;&lt;&lt;

Thats awesome news!

Thanks for the post Hanse
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hanse!! You still live /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
The fisherfolk mis you and still you need you to hel fix fishing...oops, sorry, didn't mean to go off topic. It was just nice to see a post from Hanse again:)
 
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gralph7

Guest
Thank you for the update.
It's frustrating to see a lot of discussion on other topics by the dev team and so little on runics/smithing/bod system. It's as if were being ignored.

But- busy is good.
I think. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
 
M

MYUO

Guest
Thank you Hanse for the update! I am glad all these outcries from smiths/tailors finally get an answer. Hopefully the runic change in publish 21 will address most of the problems and rewards on smith / tailor bods can be adjusted /added to renew player interest in these nice systems.
This is by no means asking you to make the systems less challenging.
 
C

Clovis of LS

Guest
Thanks Hanse,

I understand what its like to be busy. Once your pub 20/Phase III nightmares are over I'm sure we will all enjoy giving you new ones concerning the runic changes for pub 21 /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif .. muahahahaha...

I will really be looking forward to your post.

thanks again for taking the time.

Clovis
 
H

Hassle

Guest
There's a light at the end of the tunnel.... (pub21) lets hope its not a freight train.... taps foot waiting
 
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Kylas

Guest
Wow!... It only took me and Zardo 5 months to get someones attention to this problem.

Does this mean I get to dust off my valorite hammer and make it a tool again instead of a House decoration.

Woohoo.

Dig
 
R

riffraff

Guest
Fruit baskets make much better decorations =)

Hmm this is good news that runics are getting some fixes. I just started doing the BOD game a couple months ago but I could see that they had some problems (beyond getting the dam bonus mod on an exceptional weapon that was lost in the ether). I know there are people waiting a lot longer than me for a fix /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif
 
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Elowan of Wind

Guest
... for multi-skill crafting chars. For example, with a high plus ASH, your carpenter would only need a 45 skill with a +30 to craft certain add-ons, only 15 with a +60.
 
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Elowan of Wind

Guest
... I was planing to make some weapons and armor today with my runics but I think I'll save them for Pub 21. Thnx Hanse. BTW - could I borrow that hammer just lying there in Haven? /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
 
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Zardo Zap

Guest
Hanse,

Wonderful news. I await with eager anticipation.

Aye yours,

Zardo
 
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Cantaloupe Joe

Guest
*kick kick kick* Just thought I'd bump this back up to the front page. They never did make this a sticky and it has way too much info, complaints, ideas, and suggestions to making fixes to simply be forgotten.
 
K

Kylas

Guest
Is it possible Zardo that after all this time we might get a fix!

Seems like I started this subject years ago :p

Only if I could get my 7 val runic charges back. Since the sytem was so broken. I smelted those items month ago.

Dig
 
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Mekere

Guest
Great post Zardo!
I bookmarked it.
Thanks!!


Btw, have you seen 'Wiggly Safari' yet?
LOL!
 
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Zardo Zap

Guest
Kylas,

I am hoping that now - almost two years later - we may see the change to crafting we have dreamt of!

Zardo
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi there,

since your thread died I have received a valorite hammer.
I used one charge right away but the hammer is now resting in my town.

Distribution of intensity is good nothing to complain about there but there are to many no good properties.

I would love to be able to choose a few properties even if it would cost me extra charges.

Regards
The Scandinavian
 
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paladin33

Guest
i don't understand why all stats are random...

And why we cannot create our artifact like we want...

Why we cannot create items with strenght, dex or int point?

Give a name.

I think Valorite hammer are totaly impossible to have! and so, why we cannot create unique artifact when we got one...

And why valorite hammer don't have an self recharge... Why lost it?

1 recharge by 3 month for a valorite
1 recharge by month for verity
1 recharge by 15 days for agapit
ETC...

Server will not fulled with players with many artie, but the ubber will be very rare and very hard to have!

I think it's very very important smith player can craft artie better than one we can found. Because that kill vendor !

Before AOS, all britania was fulled of many vendor, and i remind to have walk all days to doing shopping.



How many time i must craft for got a runic valorite hammer? 1, 2 years? playing 5 hours by days...

we need more liberty in crafting.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
And why we have no option for change style of armor?

For exemple i have a rune beetle armor, i wear only plate but the stats of artie beetle armor are good, why i cannot reforge it in plate tunic armor?

An option for hide stuff what we wear can be cool too. I have a crimsom cinture but i dislike the style of this item. Why i cannot hide this ceinture on the paperdoll of my caracters with a simple option "hide" ?

I think ultima need more liberty for fashion &amp; property of items.

First time i m connected in ultima, i remember my first meet with bank of brit.
Warrior in full plate, mage, tamer , smith and other simple player...

Now all player are tamer/mage and elf fulled of artie and dress/robe for hide they ugly style! Because player wear stuff for to be nice and role play, but they wear stuff for STATS.

I think DEV must repair that.

For me stats of artie and to be stuffed it's funny, but i like falchion and role play.
 

Reinzeld

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Aug 11, 2004
437
11
431
I don't think the hammers are as rare as they should be, overall. I don't know for sure if the valorite hammers are too "easy" to get, or if the duping issues were too rampant for too long, but I do feel like there are too many around (assuming that everyone that claims to have one (or two or three or four or twenty) really do).

I think if one valorite hammer is gained, per server, per month (12 per year on each shard, average), that would be a good rate in my opinion.
 
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paladin33

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I don't think the hammers are as rare as they should be, overall. I don't know for sure if the valorite hammers are too "easy" to get, or if the duping issues were too rampant for too long, but I do feel like there are too many around (assuming that everyone that claims to have one (or two or three or four or twenty) really do).

I think if one valorite hammer is gained, per server, per month (12 per year on each shard, average), that would be a good rate in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]



yes of course, VALORITE HAMMER must be hard to get, but for me it's not the problems. But with the valorite hammer we have only 15 charge and after it's gone.


Try to create a caracters on test server and use a valorite hammer. You can create lot strong items but before to have a good armor you need to make more over 30-50 items...

That why, create a self recharge can resolve this problems. 1 charge for 3 month will not destroy the game.