The Real Problem With Cheating in PvP

[Connor_Graham]

really tho, this game has gotten so complex you cant possible play it without some form of automation.

This is pure BS. There is 0 (zero) need to use unauthorized 3rd party programs to play UO. It's not that damn complex.

just use something simple like tending plants to gather seeds as an example..
who really clicks every gump and moves every plant by hand.
anyone that says they dont use some script to do this is lying.

Yeah, most cheaters use the justification that "everyone does it" as reason enough for them to cheat. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are plenty of us that are physically capabale of moving each plant and clicking each button on each gump on a daily basis to tend our plants. We don't need to cheat in order to perform this very simple process.

that "certain program" makes tasks like these that would take 4 hours doable in 15-20 minutes..

Wow, you must really suck if it takes you that long to do ANYTHING in UO.

those "programs" are necessary..
and i dont think using those programs for tasks like these are cheating.

No, they're not necessary. I've done just fine for almost 6 yrs without using a single one, and yeah it is cheating. It says so in the RoC that you agreed to follow when you first started playing UO. I guess your word doesn't mean much to you, but when I say I'm going to do something (or NOT do something), I do just that.

Here's to hoping that Cal actually is good to his word and they do develop something to catch 3rd party programs, and you get caught.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

First of all, if someone is running a pot script you can easily tell the health at which it was designed to chug a heal pot. This being said, poison them before they reach that health and the script breaks down. Second of all, there is a timer on heal pots, thus giving no advantage whatsoever to someone running a pot script...quite frankly anyone who does this is just hurting themselves in the end. Thirdly, if they run a script to chug pots they will be using them up at a much faster rate than doing it manually. I don't see how a pot script benefits anyone with regard to speed...if you can cast a magery cure on yourself in half a second, surely you can chug a cure pot instantly after being poisoned.

Threads like this just reveal the ignorance and inexperience of most people who claim to "PvP".

 

[Ancient Sosarian]

Is the cheating issue equally a problem on all facets, or is it mainly used only in Felucca???

An SoS

 

[Llewen]

The real problem is still what it was for the last few years... not fast ppl, or pots,,, Its who can run over what items in game that normal users cannot... i.e. candelabras, globes, etc.. No mistaking that ****..

Someone mentioned that they thought it was terrible that the devs made the EC faster, so in fact they had created their own cheat. I don't know if the post was erased, but I can't seem to find it by skimming. I just wanted to respond to that, and in a way to the above post.

The EC doesn't allow you to move any faster than you can with the "classic" client (the "CC" from here on). The difference is that the EC is less affected by lag and processor speed than the CC. So with the CC you will only move at the maximum speed allowed by the client if you have an excellent connection and a decent processor.

There are other differences as well. In Felucca in the EC there are no tombstones, and you can just run straight through the tiles that have them in the CC. Not only that but in the CC you can only run on one axis through obstacles such as woods and not easily get stuck on trees and objects, in the EC you can in any direction through obstacles and not get stuck.

So while you cannot technically run any faster with the EC than you can with the CC the net effect of all the advantages that the EC has is that you will move faster, unless the person using the CC is running some kind of a cheat that gives them the same advantages that those running the EC has.

First of all, if someone is running a pot script you can easily tell the health at which it was designed to chug a heal pot. This being said, poison them before they reach that health and the script breaks down.

This is just flat out nonsense. Every decent health script that I checked out uses both heal and cure pots, and if you try to poison anyone using one of these scripts by the time you see their health bar go green they will have already drunk the cure pot.

Not only that, but anyone coding one of these scripts could easily slightly randomize the health level at which the pot is used so that it would be extremely difficult to know exactly when they are going to use the pot, and also very hard to know if they are indeed using a script.

Second of all, there is a timer on heal pots, thus giving no advantage whatsoever to someone running a pot script...

All of the health scripts that I checked out are coded in such a way that they take this into account. And these scripts don't make anyone invincible, they just make them very hard to kill. I know there are certain people on my shard who can regularly be ganked by six or more people and still manage somehow to survive. Sure they may be incredibly skilled, but my guess is that most, if not all, of those people are running health scripts.

Thirdly, if they run a script to chug pots they will be using them up at a much faster rate than doing it manually.

You know, there are certain people on my shard that carry so many pots that I can't dry loot them without being overloaded. And I'm not saying that everyone who carries a lot of pots is running health scripts, but it certainly would be one of the signs...

I don't see how a pot script benefits anyone with regard to speed...if you can cast a magery cure on yourself in half a second, surely you can chug a cure pot instantly after being poisoned.

Threads like this just reveal the ignorance and inexperience of most people who claim to "PvP".

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time telling whether you just don't know what you are talking about, or you are deliberately trying to spread misinformation. And for the record, I've been focusing primarily on pot chugging scripts in this thread, but there are also scripts which will auto cast cure and greater heal, or eat apples and petals, as well as bola defence scripts. Basically just about anything you can do in pvp related to defending yourself you can download or create a script to do it faster and more efficiently, and most importantly, more consistently.

 

[Llewen]

Is the cheating issue equally a problem on all facets, or is it mainly used only in Felucca???

An SoS

I've focused this thread on pvp specifically which would mean that what is being discussed here pertains primarily to the Felucca facet.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

This is pure BS. There is 0 (zero) need to use unauthorized 3rd party programs to play UO. It's not that damn complex.


Yeah, most cheaters use the justification that "everyone does it" as reason enough for them to cheat. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are plenty of us that are physically capabale of moving each plant and clicking each button on each gump on a daily basis to tend our plants. We don't need to cheat in order to perform this very simple process.


Wow, you must really suck if it takes you that long to do ANYTHING in UO.


No, they're not necessary. I've done just fine for almost 6 yrs without using a single one, and yeah it is cheating. It says so in the RoC that you agreed to follow when you first started playing UO. I guess your word doesn't mean much to you, but when I say I'm going to do something (or NOT do something), I do just that.

Here's to hoping that Cal actually is good to his word and they do develop something to catch 3rd party programs, and you get caught.

The game is not that "complex" no more than it was when it was released but I do not think he meant the mechanics of the game so much as the environment in which we currently play. Altho getting rid of scripts could potentially fix this, doesnt mean it will for sure.

As to the next two comments you made (generally speak as I agree with the cheaters excuse parts) He is talking about a very large farming session, I mean really whats the max number of plants you have ever tended on a daily basis for a prolonged period of time? I once tended over 1,000 plants by hand and decided never to even bother with planting again because of it (again this is the "complexity" of the game these days, because of farming crap) Was it a really smart idea? Most likely not, and I dont think anyone would do this EVERY DAY as it does in fact take well over 2 hours by hand (cant say it would be any faster with a script but programming knowledge tells me it really should be) but again removing the programs would either increase the number of people planting in order to keep up with out virtual "supply and demand" or it would make the cost of the resources raise exponentially for a time (until money was spread thin accross the specific shard, but that could take a decade)

No they are not needed, but to some people it would seem like they are (such as the case presented where a person has an entire 18x18 covered in plants) but i have managed just fine for 12 years with nothing more than uoa supported functions xD.

As for Cal.....I highly doubt they will be rid of scripts, ever. The problem is a bit more complicated. I think one solid method would be to have a new paging option, for reporting possible cheating, have a dedicated gm staff just for this pages and have these pages have the highest priority in the paging system, this would ensure a better investigation, and of course any methods they plan to impliment to prevent people from loading programs that can perform scripts.

 

[UOKaiser]

The game is not that "complex" no more than it was when it was released but I do not think he meant the mechanics of the game so much as the environment in which we currently play. Altho getting rid of scripts could potentially fix this, doesnt mean it will for sure.

As to the next two comments you made (generally speak as I agree with the cheaters excuse parts) He is talking about a very large farming session, I mean really whats the max number of plants you have ever tended on a daily basis for a prolonged period of time? I once tended over 1,000 plants by hand and decided never to even bother with planting again because of it (again this is the "complexity" of the game these days, because of farming crap) Was it a really smart idea? Most likely not, and I dont think anyone would do this EVERY DAY as it does in fact take well over 2 hours by hand (cant say it would be any faster with a script but programming knowledge tells me it really should be) but again removing the programs would either increase the number of people planting in order to keep up with out virtual "supply and demand" or it would make the cost of the resources raise exponentially for a time (until money was spread thin accross the specific shard, but that could take a decade)

No they are not needed, but to some people it would seem like they are (such as the case presented where a person has an entire 18x18 covered in plants) but i have managed just fine for 12 years with nothing more than uoa supported functions xD.

As for Cal.....I highly doubt they will be rid of scripts, ever. The problem is a bit more complicated. I think one solid method would be to have a new paging option, for reporting possible cheating, have a dedicated gm staff just for this pages and have these pages have the highest priority in the paging system, this would ensure a better investigation, and of course any methods they plan to impliment to prevent people from loading programs that can perform scripts.

Just make sure the option is placed that multiple false pages and suspension will occur to the pager for abuse of the system.

 

[Llewen]

As to the next two comments you made (generally speak as I agree with the cheaters excuse parts) He is talking about a very large farming session, I mean really whats the max number of plants you have ever tended on a daily basis for a prolonged period of time? I once tended over 1,000 plants by hand and decided never to even bother with planting again because of it (again this is the "complexity" of the game these days, because of farming crap)

Did you ever consider that tending "over 1,000 plants" should be a big job that requires a lot of effort and time? But even though scripting in other areas isn't the focus of this thread that's what scripting does, it allows characters to farm and craft on a scale they would never be able to do otherwise, and in the process warps both the economy and player expectations.

Which leads in part to the reason why I started this thread. At the risk of repeating myself, people have always focused on scripting with regard to crafting and harvesting, and "speed hacking" with regard to pvp. The whole point of this thread is that scripting is just as big a problem in pvp as it is in harvesting and crafting, and I think a bigger problem than what is in my opinion a wildly overblown speeding problem.

 

[popps]

really tho, this game has gotten so complex you cant possible play it without some form of automation.

just use something simple like tending plants to gather seeds as an example..
who really clicks every gump and moves every plant by hand.
anyone that says they dont use some script to do this is lying.

that "certain program" makes tasks like these that would take 4 hours doable in 15-20 minutes..

those "programs" are necessary..
and i dont think using those programs for tasks like these are cheating.

That would not be cheating only as long as ALL players did it either because allowed/legal to do OR because the game client allowed the very same things to be done in the same (shorter) time and same ease.

As long as there will be a disparity of "some" players using them and some other players NOT using them because we are told they are not legal to be used AND the client does not do the same tasks in the same length of time or with the same ease, well, then at least to my tastes I would consider it as cheating.

All players, or no players. Just "some" players simply ain't right, IMHO.

 

[popps]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are plenty of us that are physically capabale of moving each plant and clicking each button on each gump on a daily basis to tend our plants. We don't need to cheat in order to perform this very simple process.

Well, as I see it, more than an issue of needing a third party application to run simple processes because without it they would be more difficult to do, it is more an issue of the length of time that the process takes.

Perhaps one could see it as an issue of making one's own time spent in the game, more efficient.... who knows......

If a player has, say, 3 hours to play a week, and using up scripts he/she can shorten the length of time to do chores by a great deal, more time will be freed up for other things to do in the game.

Examples could be many from library collectibles to Bulk Order Deeds, to Heartwood quests and so on.

An extreme example could be gathering resources like chopping wood or mining ore.

They take time, a lot of one's own playing time to stock up a good chunk of them.

Well, a player using automatic scripts overnight, while sleeping, would not use up any of the time spent while actually playing the game....

So, the gross inbalance that is created, as I see it, is that those players using scripts not only may have PvP advantages, but they also become more wealthy of the time they have at hand to play the game over other players who, instead, not scripting have to spend a considerable chunk of their playing time doing chores.

If some players, thanking to the use of scripts can then focus in their free time on hunting and PvPing, they will have more time to get better experience at them over other players who, not scripting, have to spend part of their gaming time, a good part of it, sometimes, doing chores which other players use scripts for, instead.

Eventually, the gap among players who script and players who do not script widens and the inbalances among them accumulate making the game worse or less enjoyable for those who do not script.

This is why I think that either all players should be able to do it or noone.

The worst scenario, as I see it, is the current one, where only "some" players script......

 

[Berethrain]

If some players, thanking to the use of scripts can then focus in their free time on hunting and PvPing, they will have more time to get better experience at them over other players who, not scripting, have to spend part of their gaming time, a good part of it, sometimes, doing chores which other players use scripts for, instead.

When I first started everyone had to do "chores" and you couldnt really get by without a GM mule. Although tedious, it gave a point of direction and accomplishment to the game. Scripts take away from this.

After having done it though, there's no way Id want to rework a mule by getting my own ingots, etc and manually clicking each gump (at the time was the awesome scroll menu to the right or left without the make last button). However, now days there isn't much point to acquiring blacksmithing or tailoring.

I can really see no point in making scripts legal.

 

[Lynk]

What you are saying is not entirely true. Those "PvP scripts" benefits dexers and archers far greater than mages. Can you even imaging if you are playing a mage and script kept on messing up your target cursor? (a cast spell in hand gets canceled if you try to chug).

if #targcurs = 1

 

[Picus at the office]

IMO the scripts are a issue but as another poster said its universal in that everyone can have it. You could set up hot keys to do nearly everything that the program does and better after some practice. Speeding is another issue though as for as I am concerned.

Myself and other guild mates have chased down dismounted players far to many times who manage to zoom around and stay ahead of the game. Its silly and annoying to see the same people doing it day in and day out.

 

[aarons6]

the scripts that help you pvp or pvm really dont make you superman.
they may help if your not paying attention or are just stupid, but they dont think and can do things at the wrong time. its not always best to cure the second you get poisoned.. really in a pvp sense, why bother? your taking damage from pvp and if you cure right away it still takes time to heal.. what i do is hit the bandage wait till it has 1 second left then cure.. you will cure and heal almost at the same time and doing it this way you cant be poisoned again redlined. on top of that, with the EC client or UOA it is very easy to setup with a 1 button macro.. no script needed.

as far as i know those scripts just look for a certain event to happen and do a pre arranged thing.

i dont see how it would help. you cant just do the same thing over and over.

 

[Llewen]

You could set up hot keys to do nearly everything that the program does and better after some practice. Speeding is another issue though as for as I am concerned.

I expect that you will find that programs like Auto Hotkey and AutoIt are just as illegal as "the program which shall not be named". They are according to most developers of MMO's. And even if they aren't, they don't have access to client information the way "the program which shall not be named" does. There is a very large difference between what the two sets of applications are capable of.

And I have yet to see, in the six months since I've been back, any unmounted character that could outrun, or even run at the same speed, as a mounted character. I have seen plenty of characters that could miraculously stay alive, while dismounted and running at full dismounted speed, with five or six mounted enemies attacking and casting on them.

Maybe there are players that are that skilled, but in my opinion there is something fishy about someone that can stay alive while dismounted while five or six experienced mounted pvp'rs are trying to take them down. If it was five or six characters fresh from Haven, I'd say sure, but these are experienced pvp'rs with good suits and weapons.

Which leads to a point that maybe I haven't emphasized as much as I should have. As far as I can see most of these scripts are defencive in nature, not offensive. Which is, in my opinion, why you see so many single players able to survive highly lopsided ganks so handily. I think it would be pretty hard to create a script that was of much use offensively, with a few notable exceptions that I won't get into, but what these scripts do is keep you alive in situations where it would be virtually impossible for a normal human player to stay alive.

 

[aarons6]

Well, as I see it, more than an issue of needing a third party application to run simple processes because without it they would be more difficult to do, it is more an issue of the length of time that the process takes.

Perhaps one could see it as an issue of making one's own time spent in the game, more efficient.... who knows......

If a player has, say, 3 hours to play a week, and using up scripts he/she can shorten the length of time to do chores by a great deal, more time will be freed up for other things to do in the game.

Examples could be many from library collectibles to Bulk Order Deeds, to Heartwood quests and so on.

An extreme example could be gathering resources like chopping wood or mining ore.

They take time, a lot of one's own playing time to stock up a good chunk of them.

Well, a player using automatic scripts overnight, while sleeping, would not use up any of the time spent while actually playing the game....

So, the gross inbalance that is created, as I see it, is that those players using scripts not only may have PvP advantages, but they also become more wealthy of the time they have at hand to play the game over other players who, instead, not scripting have to spend a considerable chunk of their playing time doing chores.

If some players, thanking to the use of scripts can then focus in their free time on hunting and PvPing, they will have more time to get better experience at them over other players who, not scripting, have to spend part of their gaming time, a good part of it, sometimes, doing chores which other players use scripts for, instead.

Eventually, the gap among players who script and players who do not script widens and the inbalances among them accumulate making the game worse or less enjoyable for those who do not script.

This is why I think that either all players should be able to do it or noone.

The worst scenario, as I see it, is the current one, where only "some" players script......

the unattended part is the main thing keeping these programs illegal.. i do consider that cheating..

 

[aarons6]

I expect that you will find that programs like Auto Hotkey and AutoIt are just as illegal as "the program which shall not be named". They are according to most developers of MMO's. And even if they aren't, they don't have access to client information the way "the program which shall not be named" does. There is a very large difference between what the two sets of applications are capable of.

And I have yet to see, in the six months since I've been back, any unmounted character that could outrun, or even run at the same speed, as a mounted character. I have seen plenty of characters that could miraculously stay alive, while dismounted and running at full dismounted speed, with five or six mounted enemies attacking and casting on them.

Maybe there are players that are that skilled, but in my opinion there is something fishy about someone that can stay alive while dismounted while five or six experienced mounted pvp'rs are trying to take them down. If it was five or six characters fresh from Haven, I'd say sure, but these are experienced pvp'rs with good suits and weapons.

Which leads to a point that maybe I haven't emphasized as much as I should have. As far as I can see most of these scripts are defencive in nature, not offensive. Which is, in my opinion, why you see so many single players able to survive highly lopsided ganks so handily. I think it would be pretty hard to create a script that was of much use offensively, with a few notable exceptions that I won't get into, but what these scripts do is keep you alive in situations where it would be virtually impossible for a normal human player to stay alive.

you stated the main problem.. that "certain program" has access to game data... if the devs wanted to, they can remove this and either encrypt that data or make it so you cant snoop it.
i know it would be very easy to write a small code that checked for a certain memory foot print and close the client down.

 

[Llewen]

they may help if your not paying attention or are just stupid, but they dont think and can do things at the wrong time. its not always best to cure the second you get poisoned.. really in a pvp sense, why bother? your taking damage from pvp and if you cure right away it still takes time to heal.. what i do is hit the bandage wait till it has 1 second left then cure.. you will cure and heal almost at the same time and doing it this way you cant be poisoned again redlined. on top of that, with the EC client or UOA it is very easy to setup with a 1 button macro.. no script needed.

as far as i know those scripts just look for a certain event to happen and do a pre arranged thing.

i dont see how it would help. you cant just do the same thing over and over.

And what you don't realize is that a pot script for example allows you essentially to do more than one thing at a time. You are cured the instant you are poisoned, and you can use your bandage at virtually the same time, or be chain casting heal. Sure there are some disadvantages but for the most part if you know what you are doing, and set up your scripts intelligently, they provide a huge advantage.

As I already posted, they are consistent, they don't fat finger or get distracted, and they essentially provide you with another set of hands. Why wait to drink a cure pot until just before your bandage takes effect when you can use them every time you are poisoned, instantly?

You get to half health, and you automatically drink a heal pot, if you are poisoned the script will drink the cure pot first, then the heal pot, and you can be using bandages at the same time, or you can have a script do that as well and be thinking about remounting the horse you got knocked off of instead of worrying about healing and curing yourself, which incidentally can be handled by a script as well (the remounting your horse after you are dismounted).

So if you want you can have your scripts handle all your healing, and defence, from pots to bandages to spells, to avoiding bolas and using trapped boxes, and all you have to worry about is killing those that are attacking you, or making your escape.

I don't understand how you can fail to see the advantages.

And as someone pointed out, from what I have seen these scripts are primarily used by dexxers and archers, where you don't have to worry about your defencive scripts doing things like interrupting your casts. Although I am sure there are still plenty of mages running certain scripts, they just aren't as all encompassing as those used by the dexxers and archers that I am aware of.

 

[Berethrain]

Maybe there are players that are that skilled, but in my opinion there is something fishy about someone that can stay alive while dismounted while five or six experienced mounted pvp'rs are trying to take them down. If it was five or six characters fresh from Haven, I'd say sure, but these are experienced pvp'rs with good suits and weapons.

This really isn't that hard, especially with 4/6 chiv and parry.

 

[Picus at the office]

4/6 Parry isn't the most common tactic in PvP, or on my shard at least....

 

[Berethrain]

4/6 Parry isn't the most common tactic in PvP, or on my shard at least....

Ok, what's your point?

 

[Lynk]

The scripts don't let you do anything that you can't do by hand. You can't drink a pot and use a bandage at the same time, they are still limited by the timer between using items.

The scripts that most people use have a lot of flaws.

The players that survive those dismount ganks are usually skilled. Maybe if you tried to coordinate damage output to hit at once instead of randomly moving shotting or trying to armor ignore you would have more success.

If you are the Llewyn from Catskills I've been on the receiving end of your 'dismount with skilled pvpers'. They aren't that skilled and it is relatively easy to escape.

 

[Llewen]

This really isn't that hard, especially with 4/6 chiv and parry.

The people I am thinking about specifically weren't using 4/6 chiv and several of them were archers, which would preclude parry. And my guess is that even with 4/6 chiv and parry there are very few who could survive a gank while dismounted by half a dozen experienced pvp'rs. But of course there are always exceptions which is one of the things cheaters hide behind. My guess is if the devs actually ever beat the third party cheat app monster in UO there will suddenly be an awful lot fewer "skilled pvp'rs" playing UO.

If you are the Llewyn from Catskills I've been on the receiving end of your 'dismount with skilled pvpers'. They aren't that skilled and it is relatively easy to escape.

I wasn't talking about myself. Thank you for your attempt to turn this thread into a personal insult fest. Kindly take your trolling somewhere else.

Last I checked you can indeed drink a heal, drink a cure, eat a petal, and use a bandage pretty close to the same time. If there is a timer between those actions it isn't much of one, and a well written script could easily take that into account.

 

[Berethrain]

several of them were archers,

It's possible with an archer also, but not to say they weren't using a speeder I guess.

 

[Cardell]

My guess is if the devs actually ever beat the third party cheat app monster in UO there will suddenly be an awful lot fewer "skilled pvp'rs" playing UO.

I have to laugh at the ignorance in this statement.

Implying that most good pvpers are cheats is just pathetic.

 

[GarthGrey]

Wow, there are a lot of obvious script users trying real hard to put a "legal" spin on things...its comical folks...comical..

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Wow, there are a lot of obvious script users trying real hard to put a "legal" spin on things...its comical folks...comical..

There's nothing legal about running scripts no matter how you try to spin it. The fact that you chose to make a baseless accusation is this thread lumps you right in there in the same group doesn't it?

 

[GarthGrey]

You misunderstood me. What I meant was, there are tons of stratics posters that are scripting cheaters, and they post in these threads explaining how they do things without cheating..they're professional Spin Doctors, trying to sway the balance.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I just chock it up that most UO players have tried a script. Even if not most of the ones that haven't have probably at least checked out that website. You can't get into trouble for just browsing it. No matter what 99% will deny it all.

 

[Spree]

What mouse carries 15 buttons on it ?

That is on top of the wheel and the left/right ones ?

I have logitech G5

right, left, scroll up, scroll down, center button, scroll left, scroll right, thumb button, 2nd thumb button.
that 10 on the mouse i have and that a few years old.

I also have a logtech g 15 key board with 15 macro keys. that you can set different sets of macros.

 

[Berethrain]

You misunderstood me. What I meant was, there are tons of stratics posters that are scripting cheaters, and they post in these threads explaining how they do things without cheating..they're professional Spin Doctors, trying to sway the balance.

Everyone using macros are now scripting cheaters? Really?.... rolleyes:

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You misunderstood me. What I meant was, there are tons of stratics posters that are scripting cheaters, and they post in these threads explaining how they do things without cheating..they're professional Spin Doctors, trying to sway the balance.

No...I just understand the difference. You see...I used to cry cheat about everything until I found UOA and a good mouse. Now I only complain about the issues that really are an issue. BTW...I am open to share SS of my client anytime anyone wishes to see...nothing to hide here now...or ever.

 

[GarthGrey]

No...I just understand the difference. You see...I used to cry cheat about everything until I found UOA and a good mouse. Now I only complain about the issues that really are an issue. BTW...I am open to share SS of my client anytime anyone wishes to see...nothing to hide here now...or ever.

Make it a screen shot of your running Processes, and it has much more value.

 

[Llewen]

I have to laugh at the ignorance in this statement.

Implying that most good pvpers are cheats is just pathetic.

There are good pvp'rs, and there are godly pvp'rs who survive seemingly impossible odds with great regularity. I don't have any issues with most of the "good pvp'rs", the ones that interest me are the "godly pvp'rs", and I expect those are the ones we will see far fewer of if the devs ever get their act together and do something about the illegal third party app elephant. I'm not saying we won't see any of them, but I expect we will see far fewer of them.

And I'll just repeat what I already posted. One of the worst things about an uncontrolled cheating epidemic, like the one that has plagued UO almost since day one, is that it is really difficult to tell the cheaters from the genuinely skilled players. Sometimes it is obvious, but that is only with unskilled cheaters, cheaters that know what they are doing and are smart about it are very hard to pin down. And they will always lie and tell you they aren't cheating, and they will generally sound very convincing as they do so, and often they've even managed to convince themselves that they aren't cheating, which adds a nice layer of sincerity to their lies to others.

The really sad thing is that the truly skilled players inevitably get lumped in with these losers, and constantly have to face false accusations. So an uncontrolled cheating problem is really a major bummer on a whole bunch of levels, for a number of different reasons, and it is always the honest players that get the shaft. And there are honest players out there, and there are truly skilled players, but in UO it is really hard, and at times almost impossible, to tell which witch is which...

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Make it a screen shot of your running Processes, and it has much more value.

well sir, its one thing to cheat...quite another to play by the rules and be CALLED a cheat.

 

[GarthGrey]

well sir, its one thing to cheat...quite another to play by the rules and be CALLED a cheat.

Show me where I mentioned any names at all....Get defensive much? I"m merely replying to your replies to me..

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Show me where I mentioned any names at all....Get defensive much? I"m merely replying to your replies to me..

no sir...just sticking up for those who arent saying anything. defensive? not at all...just pointing out a few things to you...so that hopefully you too see the light of day.

 

[Berethrain]

Make it a screen shot of your running Processes, and it has much more value.

Why when you can just come on here and randomly accuse people of cheating.

Originally Posted by GarthGrey
You misunderstood me. What I meant was, there are tons of stratics posters that are scripting cheaters, and they post in these threads explaining how they do things without cheating..they're professional Spin Doctors, trying to sway the balance.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Did you ever consider that tending "over 1,000 plants" should be a big job that requires a lot of effort and time? But even though scripting in other areas isn't the focus of this thread that's what scripting does, it allows characters to farm and craft on a scale they would never be able to do otherwise, and in the process warps both the economy and player expectations.

Which leads in part to the reason why I started this thread. At the risk of repeating myself, people have always focused on scripting with regard to crafting and harvesting, and "speed hacking" with regard to pvp. The whole point of this thread is that scripting is just as big a problem in pvp as it is in harvesting and crafting, and I think a bigger problem than what is in my opinion a wildly overblown speeding problem.

Try not to take my posts the wrong way, I never intended to say it should be easy or fast, but he was saying he was pathetic if it took him 4 hours to do anything in UO, and frankly it could take 4 hours to tend to that many plants, should it? most likely. My posts are not in anyway for cheating or for lessening anything, but simply pointing out the flaws in peoples arguements, if you read I did mention how removal of such programs could in fact fix the problem itself, but its not a garantee.

Someone mentioned that repeated false pages should be punishable, I do not fully disagree with this but, assuming the system was good would mean that if you paged on someone and they were left alone, chances are they are not cheaters so you should not page again, paging on alot of players should not inatately recieve penalties but I do see where you are comming from and I do see a need for checks and balances I was simply explaining that there is no real way to fully prevent cheating with out dedicated members of the staff to actual find people cheating and do something about it. But it is a start is it not?

 

[Mattress Mary]

Those are the kinds of excuses that cheaters use. That's the reason why you accuse some people of cheating that you know are cheating and they will baldly tell you they are not, and on some level, they actually believe they are telling the truth.

I've done the plant thing. I've moved every single plant, and clicked every single gump, one at a time, with my mouse and entirely without the aid of any illegal third party apps. Whether you believe me or not is entirely your business, I know that what I've written is true, and that's all that I care about at this point...

Well, I've done the plant thing as well and I too have made every single move and click by hand. It's these damned scripts that devalues the hard work of us totally honest players and ruins the economy and saturates the game with every Commodity and Item.

 

[Vyal]

Heres an idea quit, just quit this stupid game.
There are more cheaters in this game then any game I have ever played.

I can even tell you about stupid people in vents telling me how to use speeders ROFL.

I go chick you are super fast and your zig zagging everywhere she goes "Vyal the trick is to use (said speeder) and you have to zig zag all over the screen"

Ahhhh ok you suck burn in you know what, how did I ever get into a guild with a cheater like you?

If your good but your only good because you are using speeders, scripts, modded clients, and the new one I like the new UO lag switch ROFL.

Lag switch with UO !! While using speeder, client mods, scripts, and over power'd armor there ya go & you think your better then me?

Be on the look out for these people I know who they are but I quit just a few days ago.

A lag switch ROFL

You hit the switch with speeder running and you take no dmg then you run away fast and don't get hit then flick it back

 

[ElRay]

If I had a penny for every post about hacks in this game, I would have made enough to buy some proper programmers =(

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

If I had a penny for every post about hacks in this game, I would have made enough to buy some proper programmers =(

well...I think you really have a point there.

can I have ur stuff?

 

[Cardell]

There are good pvp'rs, and there are godly pvp'rs who survive seemingly impossible odds with great regularity. I don't have any issues with most of the "good pvp'rs", the ones that interest me are the "godly pvp'rs", and I expect those are the ones we will see far fewer of if the devs ever get their act together and do something about the illegal third party app elephant. I'm not saying we won't see any of them, but I expect we will see far fewer of them.

And I'll just repeat what I already posted. One of the worst things about an uncontrolled cheating epidemic, like the one that has plagued UO almost since day one, is that it is really difficult to tell the cheaters from the genuinely skilled players. Sometimes it is obvious, but that is only with unskilled cheaters, cheaters that know what they are doing and are smart about it are very hard to pin down. And they will always lie and tell you they aren't cheating, and they will generally sound very convincing as they do so, and often they've even managed to convince themselves that they aren't cheating, which adds a nice layer of sincerity to their lies to others.

The really sad thing is that the truly skilled players inevitably get lumped in with these losers, and constantly have to face false accusations. So an uncontrolled cheating problem is really a major bummer on a whole bunch of levels, for a number of different reasons, and it is always the honest players that get the shaft. And there are honest players out there, and there are truly skilled players, but in UO it is really hard, and at times almost impossible, to tell which witch is which...

Seemingly impossible odds to one person is not seemingly impossible odds to others. You have to take into consideration that you may very well be simply not on the same level of understand the game as the 'godly pvpers' you accuse of hacking.

For the longest time i was accused of using a script to dismount my horse right before someone threw a bola at me. I simple had a dismount and remount macro in UOA and when someone dropped on foot and swung a bola I waited until their movement shifted toward me, then I would pop off my mount a second later. It works most of the time but I got so many ICQs accusing me left and right of bull**** hacking and scripting.

The bottom line is in MMOs 99% of the time when someone doesn't understand how they were beaten or how they could not beat someone else they call HAX! It's lame and old. Some people do it, some don't. I'm all for getting rid of it, I'm sick of the auto healers n cures and what not as well. But the bottom line is you cannot prove it and to label people hackers because they are godly is simply pathetic..

Witch hunts are lame dood. Grow up and get some proof before you start unjustifiably labeling other people.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Years ago, sometime after they got rid of the mailbag, people began to get ICQ. On ICQ you could send out messages to thousands of people and have them send out the same messages. I remember hearing alot about people dieing. It was a very powerful program and it was necessary for communication in such a large world.

I used to let my brother share my account, he played on AoL. There were macro programs available where you could record your movements on the screen and they would be played out and there were other types of macros other people were creating. One of the main reasons people would use programs like this would be to gain skill. For example: A simple click of a button repeated a million times.

One day I went to log on and my account had been banned. I could not believe that my account was banned. I called my brother and he told me that he was macroing and that he went to the bathroom and when he came back the account was closed. A few weeks before, on ICQ, I received numerous scripts and instructions on how to apply them, how to 120 Chivalry in a day or necromancy.

I called my brother back and asked him if he had been using a script and he said no that he had been macroing. He thought that the script was a macro. I had to explain to him that a script talked directly to the code and a macro communicated through the game interface and that they were different.

So, I learned a lesson, not to share my account but I also learned how easy it was for cheating to become so easily obtained.

I played with alot of good PvPers and I know that alot of them use scripts because some times they would use face commands that you could see, like to change the properties on a weapon. One of the things I noticed when mage fighting, if your opponent used a script you would be lagged, kind of if your priority was lowered, meaning if you cast heal and they cast heal their heal would be quicker because of the small amount of lag.

Similar to speed hackers, when they run in the game, it's like they run through a puddle and create lag all around them, which is where I think the term speed hack comes from. If it wasn't for the lag issue someone who knows the game mechanics and who is intelligent can easily beat the hacks.

I remember another hack that a guild used. When we used to do a champ spawn they would wait for the level up and then create a lag where everyone would lose connection. Now I can't confirm this as being a bug but I remember it being hard to believe that it was a coincidence that all 10 of us lost connection.

There has to be a way to interlock the players, a kind of music or beat that keeps track, so that if another player were to be out of tune they would be detected or automatically modified.

 

[Llewen]

I'm all for getting rid of it, I'm sick of the auto healers n cures and what not as well. But the bottom line is you cannot prove it and to label people hackers because they are godly is simply pathetic..

Witch hunts are lame dood. Grow up and get some proof before you start unjustifiably labeling other people.

And you really need to take a valium.

I have accused absolutely no one in this thread - no one, in fact I have taken great pains to make sure I accused no one.

I have said what you said, that you can't tell the cheaters from the people that aren't cheating.

I have said more than once that the worst thing about a cheating problem is that those that don't cheat unjustly get lumped in with the cheaters.

I have not said anywhere that every good player or every godly player is a cheater, in fact I have taken great pains to say that this is not the case, more than once.

Is there anything else I can do to make you happy?

And when you start taking the tact of telling other people to "grow up" you are walking down the path of becoming no more than a common troll. So I would suggest that you watch your tone, or you will likely end up with some deleted posts, and maybe an infraction or two, as others already have...

The entire point of this thread is to call attention to, and discuss, what I think is a bigger problem than speeding in pvp, and that is scripting in pvp, and specifically defencive scripts. The purpose of this thread is not to accuse anyone of anything, it is to call attention to what I see as the most serious problem in pvp today, and maybe attract some developer attention.

The developers are in the process of fixing the speeding problem, and then at some point they are going to see what they can do about the illegal third party app issue. I think they've got their priorities backwards. I think job one should be shutting down the illegal third party apps, at least those that are readily available to anyone.

And it should have been done years ago.

 

[Llewen]

Grow up and get some proof before you start unjustifiably labeling other people.

And you talk about "proof". Well the only ones who can supply that proof are the devs, and the only way they can do it is with third party cheat detection functionality, like that provided with Punk Buster. And if they aren't going to use something like Punk Buster, they need to create that functionality themselves.

You seem to be implying that there is no problem. I know for a fact that there is, because I have heard many people talking about it, many times in Vent. And I don't mean accusing others with no proof, I mean talking about it in a way that makes it clear they are using these cheats, and sharing the information with others so that they can also use them. Not only that but I have seen them in action when I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were being used.

I'm not making this up. This is not a witch hunt.

But the long and short of it is, this is the devs' problem. They are the ones that have refused to do anything about the problem for ten years, when there have been effective tools and methods available to them for at least that long - not 100% effective, but effective enough to drastically reduce the level of cheating going on in UO right now.

They are the ones that made what I think is the single worst decision in the history of the development of UO, far worse than the creation of Trammel, and that was the cancellation of Punk Buster.

Punk Buster wouldn't have magically solved all of UO's problems with cheating, and if they create their own in-house solution, it won't either, but it would have drastically reduced the level of cheating going on, both in the economy, and in pvp.

Hard core hackers and cheaters will always be with us, and they will always find a way to get around anti-cheat functionality, but in online games the majority of those who use cheats when there is no detection and no enforcement of the TOS are not what you would typically call "hard core" hackers and cheaters.

The vast majority of cheaters in a situation like that are casual cheaters, and cheaters of opportunity, and I am certain that is the case in UO today. The vast majority of those who are using third party cheats in UO are doing so because it is ridiculously easy to obtain and use those cheats, they are effective, and there are no consequences for using them.

Punk Buster, if it had been implemented properly, would have virtually eliminated the casual cheating in UO.

Cheating is really an online security issue, and online security is rarely about 100% guaranteed prevention, it is about making yourself as difficult a target as possible. When you make yourself a hard target the "casual hackers" will leave you alone, and that makes dealing with the hard core hackers much much easier.

UO is an easy target, an incredibly easy target. And the responsibility for that lies squarely with the devs. As I said, the tools for hardening online applications, and cheat detection in online games have been available for at least ten years, and it is the devs fault that none of them have ever been used.

In short, they need to get their act together and they need to do it yesterday...

 

[Walkerboh77]

imagine how many of the cheats would be eliminated if they removed pots from pvp

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You know...perhaps someone would give two cents if there was a point to be made here. I hate cheats as much as the next in the pvp arena. I do however think this thread is beating a dead horse. I have seen the same people repeat the same mumbo jumbo again and again, and the same people refuse to believe that they may be mistaken. So...I give up on this turd of a thread...Im packing up and moving on. If you wish to continue on with this charade...be prepared to hear the same crap again and again...broken record time!

<---- This thread

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

imagine how many of the cheats would be eliminated if they removed pots from pvp

or bandaids...weps too!