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The Change to Allow Murderers in Guard Zones Should be Reverted

Sakkarah

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
<blockquote><hr>

Prior to Publish 16 there was a healthy amount of PVP all over the place. I recall Trinsic, Britain and Moonglow moongates all being active. Bucaneer's Den, many dungeons, the east Britain crossroads, etc. That is now all gone. The only place left on Atlantic is Yew Moongate.

[/ QUOTE ]
That has nothing to do with GZ though. Actually I had made an attempt at PvP before Pub 16 with my Faction thief. All you had to do was sneeze and I would keel over. But with a proper escort I would steal Sigils. I gave that up quickly because a) those guys were way out of my league, b) stats loss was just too frustrating. But aside from the regs annoyance, PvPing back then was different. It was skill-based not item-based. You want to point fingers at the cause for the current state of PvP, dont look at GZ. I did Factions wearing my newbie clothes. How many times have I seen PvPers strutting their stuff wearing nothing but a skirt?

<blockquote><hr>

So you can say again and again you want the guard zones removed and that it will somehow make PVP better. It won't because murderers have benefited from many changes and blues have been slowly pushed out of Felucca over the past 5 years. The change to let murderers into guard zones was suppose to make PVP better but that obviously did not happen. When your strategy does not work it is better to change it instead of staying the course. Giving more power to murderers is more of the same.

[/ QUOTE ]Blues didn't flock in droves to Felucca when reds weren't allowed in town. You're deluding yourself thinking banning reds from town will magically make Fel sexy again. Even Trammel towns are deserted aside from Luna and Brit to a much lesser extent than it once was. Why would blues suddenly want to hang out in Fel Towns? Our walls aren't prettier and banksitters wont be getting better deals.

You want to attract blues in Fel, give them an incentive. Two main things that usually drive people: greed and safety. For the newbie PvPers, provide them with an intermediate training ground so the learning curve isn't so steep. Some of the legacy dungeons are collecting dust right now, they can be put to good use. Put an attractive drop let say in a dungeon like Shame (that no one visits unless a harry is popped), then add the insta-tele to healer upon death mechanic for blues, you just watch and see how many will be pouring in.
 
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imported_Lord GOD(GOD)

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

She posted with her own words that she didn't PVP until after Publish 16, when the rules all changed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care, your post was ignorant to say the least. 'You can't possibly understand something that happened before your time' is utter bs especially considering that just about everyone who PvP's now learnt from someone before them.

<blockquote><hr>

Prior to Publish 16 there was a healthy amount of PVP all over the place. I recall Trinsic, Britain and Moonglow moongates all being active. Bucaneer's Den, many dungeons, the east Britain crossroads, etc. That is now all gone. The only place left on Atlantic is Yew Moongate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thats nothing to do with guard zones thats just because theres not enough non-champ spawn PvPers to sustain those areas anymore.
You ever go on TC pre-pub16? You remember how packed TC fel brit was with faction PvP? The game just had more people in it back then, I'm not even talking about during prod shard downtime that was primetime at the weekends. Both prod shards and TC full of PvP... now look at it... that's nothing to do with GZ's thats to do with so many people leaving.

<blockquote><hr>

So you can say again and again you want the guard zones removed and that it will somehow make PVP better.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying it will make PvP better, I'm saying that it is the soloution to what YOU said the issue was - trying to move PvP away from the moongates.

<blockquote><hr>

It won't because murderers have benefited from many changes and blues have been slowly pushed out of Felucca over the past 5 years. The change to let murderers into guard zones was suppose to make PVP better but that obviously did not happen. When your strategy does not work it is better to change it instead of staying the course. Giving more power to murderers is more of the same.

[/ QUOTE ]
What benefits have murderers benefitted from?
Blues aren't pushed out of fel.
The change to stop murderers being instantly guard whacked was probably because it's (near) impossible to get to some areas without going through them, in fact thinking about it, if that change was (as you said - or around the time) at publish 16 then that would have made sense as champ spawn had just came about, no point having champ spawns in T2A if you can't get to them.

Imagine trying to raid COD with the opposition leaving one blue at marble and one at Delucia spamming guards. You'd only be able to get there through Ice Dungeon even then you'd either have to sail to main land or use the teleporter (which I think puts you on the other side of the map) it just isn't practical.

Yeah the only places PvP happens now are Yew Gate &amp; Champ Spawns (on Atl), but thats more due to the game being item driven. If the crys of people to move powerscrolls to the Ilsh/Tok/Malas spawns were heard there'd be even less reason to go to fel.
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

What benefits have murderers benefitted from?

[/ QUOTE ]
First was the a big one, Age of Shadows removed stat loss. Also the private housing changes gave murderers a completely safe haven. It also set the stage for the next set of changes.

After getting fed up, players demanded blues out of guard zones and reds out of houses. So it things were changed in the name of balance. If you are aggressor you can no longer enter a house and murderers can run into towns without getting wacked. This change benefited reds a lot more than blues. It opened up safe banking and access to stables. Murderers could now get very close to the guard zones and pick off startled players without any consequences.

Changes to PVP in general has greatly widened the gap between skilled PVPers and newbies. Area effects now play a huge role in combat and it does not matter how many numbers you have. You could have 50 players get wiped out by 5 in seconds. This did not happen prior to Age of Shadows. Anyone remember the saying strength in numbers? Simply does not apply anymore.

The risk vs reward balance has also been thrown out of balance. What risk is there to murderers who raid champion spawns? There is none, it is all reward for them. They get the fight they want, gold from insurance and the power scrolls. What do blues get? Frustration and a feeling of hopelessness. There is no set path for them to follow to winning combat. Coming with more numbers is meaningless. Areas where they can learn PVP is non-existent. Their only choice is to join a PVP guild. But those are hard to get into sometimes. And franky, a lot of the newer players our guild has recruited over the past few years are much lower in skill level than pre-AOS players.

All these have led to conditions where a tiny group of hardcore murderers can essentially dominate an entire shard, driving players away.
 
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imported_Lord GOD(GOD)

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

This change benefited reds a lot more than blues.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but it wasn't detrimental to blues. The choice of wether or not they flag on a red is still theirs.

<blockquote><hr>

Murderers could now get very close to the guard zones and pick off startled players without any consequences.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well on Atlantic for example, where CYN's old Yew house was blue players used to stand so that the moment someone attacked them they could teleport in to the guard zone, people we're getting guard whacked in houses away from the guard zone. I know what your saying, but most blues in fel are not innocent. Maybe change it so that you don't have to call guards they just come as soon as an in gz crime is commited would be better, that wasn't how it was before, before reds used to get whacked even without attacking anyone. But even that wouldn't draw PvP away from the guard zones, which is what you said the whole thread/issue is about.

<blockquote><hr>

Changes to PVP in general has greatly widened the gap between skilled PVPers and newbies.

[/ QUOTE ]
It has, but that gap has always been there &amp; IMO always should. I always feel peoples first taste of PvP should be in tram guild events. (thats speaking as of these days of course, as starting in fel isn't really an option on prod shards.)

<blockquote><hr>

This did not happen prior to Age of Shadows. Anyone remember the saying strength in numbers? Simply does not apply anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe not but it's a much different game to what it was then and the same rules don't/can't apply.

<blockquote><hr>

All these have led to conditions where a tiny group of hardcore murderers can essentially dominate an entire shard, driving players away.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah but that isn't the murderers fault.
 
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Nadirian_Wrath

Guest
It's fel. You think PS and gold have any value anymore? Not enough to justify stat loss. PS are in fel to start fights. That's the only reason to come to fel.

Yes reds can use banks and stables in town. So what? If a red attacks a blue in gz, he gets GWed. I don't see the issue.


And no, someone running back to gz screaming guards after attacking a red is not a "stepping stone" . Stepping stones take you somewhere in ability. The frustration of dieing and replaying the fight in your head pondering what to have done differently is the stepping stone.

Who's gameplay is hindered by letting reds in gzs? Blues? nope.
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

The frustration of dieing and replaying the fight in your head pondering what to have done differently is the stepping stone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dying to a single combination of Explosion, Evil Omen and Flamestrike goes by so quick some new players don't even know what hit them. There is no fight to replay because fights against new players last mere seconds.
 
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Nadirian_Wrath

Guest
Thankfully if this happens in a guardzone, the guards can be called after the explode is targeted and before it fires.
 
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Guest

Guest
Remove Tram first then lets talk about guard zones. And, show me where they said it was for faction reasons? I dont seem to recall them ever saying that.
It was because reds needed to get to their bank boxes and reds cant attack blues in town guard zones, so who cares? If a blue is not ready to fight a red then they should just leave the red alone.
Sounds like a territory issue here, like chimps in the forest or dogs in the yard...
 
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Razeial

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


Dying to a single combination of Explosion, Evil Omen and Flamestrike goes by so quick some new players don't even know what hit them. There is no fight to replay because fights against new players last mere seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

"New" Players have no business in fel, except too farm resources, and even then, they should be educated. JC your an idiot for thinking that blues have it sooooo bad. *news flash* Unlike reds, blues get to travel to places like, malas, ilshnear, and Tokuno! OMG!!!! Know what else blues get to do that reds cant? INVOKE VIRTUES! omgooses did anyone miss that.You talk about the mental damage from blues being attacked by reds....oh dear me, its a [censored] game. If UO causes you mental stress, please quit. "I" remember playing a red Pre-Pub16. I also remember how utterly annoying it was having to use a bug to stable a pet in a town. What YOU don't remember, is playing a red, pre-pub 16. Because if you did, this thread would not exist. You want to talk about what makes sense? Why should ANYONE be able to travel to a grand total of five facets without the worry of being killed by another player? Hmm? Wanna talk about the role play aspect? I think all prodo shards should take a siege approach to Pking. It only makes sense to meeee

You clearly didn't play a red pre pub 16, and you clearly don't play one now. What i think your problem is, is that you're tired of getting your ass handed to you when you flag on a red while your sitting in guard zones. You make it seem like reds can just come in and kill people in guard zones, at any time, without consequence....Which is a fallacy. The only way a red can kill a blue in guard zones, without having to worry about being guard whacked, is if a blue attacked the red first. And if thats the case, then the blue was asking for it.

Here is the difference in the entire matter, A red aggro's on a blue standing outside guard zone, the blue gets to run in to guards when he starts to die, the red has no where to turn. However, when a blue aggro's on a red, and the blue starts to die, he gets to lure the red back to the guard zone and have his guild unleash dismount hell against the red, along with pets, and 4554675464 other people. What needs to happen, is there needs to be absolutely, no guard zones ever anywhere. Face the facts hombre, Felucca is a land of bloodshed and it belongs to the murderers of UO, IF you have a problem with that, i suggest you write your congressmen and a few UO devs ( not like it'll get you anywhere) and return to trammel, because if you feel that you need to be "safe" even in PvP, then thats where you belong.
 
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Crystilastmous

Guest
I've played Soccer (Football for the rest of the world) for 15 years now.

Let's say a group of players that have played as long as I have, make a play and score a point then win a game. The game we won was against players who've never played before and had no idea what was going on....


What is the difference? None really, there are reds who've played this game for 10 years or more that know how to cast explo fs and kill a player.

Again, you're arguing this on account of a hidden agenda, just like you argue most things.

You run a mostly blue guild, that sits in GZ and aggress reds then run back to blue x healers. Give us a break.
 
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imported_Lord GOD(GOD)

Guest
rtlfc

New players SHOULD be dying to stuff they have no concept of thats why their new. Eventually something should click in their mind to find out what hit them and change it.

(not that it's just limited to new players, I've seen vets have trouble grasping the concept of fs/omen with the omen landing before the fs)
 
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Guest

Guest
RTLFC

I still think the statloss system introduced with powerscrolls (pub 16) rocked. If you PK in T2A or Dungeons, you only get a long term, if you pk anywhere else you get long + short term counts.

What I DO think needs to be changed is the "punk"/"grief" attitude of a lot of people in Fel. Most people don't mind dying, but the amount of trash talking needs to be lowered, otherwise people are not coming back. It's not fun to be called what some people call each other in Fel. If people don't have fun in Fel, they don't go there.

ALL THIS IS NOT POINTED AT ANY GUILD IN PARTICULAR!

I don't even play anymore
 
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