I think its pretty selfish that all these "innocent" players wanna take the only thing reds have. You have trammel, Malas, Toko(however its spelled) and you can even come to fel as well, yet you are not still unhappy with all that has been giving to you.
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The Change to Allow Murderers in Guard Zones Should be Reverted
- Thread starter Guest
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C
Clx-
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Allowing murderers into guard zones has also had the side effect of killing the once well used town of Buccaneer's Den.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everything you've said, but the quote above is especially laughable. Buccs is about the worst place in the game for PvPers to be. There's a moongate, a teleporter, housing spots and a million serverlines. There's not a single worse place in UO for PvP to take place.
Allowing murderers into guard zones has also had the side effect of killing the once well used town of Buccaneer's Den.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everything you've said, but the quote above is especially laughable. Buccs is about the worst place in the game for PvPers to be. There's a moongate, a teleporter, housing spots and a million serverlines. There's not a single worse place in UO for PvP to take place.
L
Lilac Crypt
Guest
I can tell you exactly why this change happened.
Blame the Yew gate of stupidity. Once upon a time, reds hid in houses, and blues hugged the guardzone. And there was much whining.
The blues cried because the reds would run out and hit them and then dive back into their houses.. the reds cried because they would get guardwhacked. The whining got louder. Both sides wanted change.. whaaaaaaaah.
So they both got what they asked for. The reds could now enter the guardzone, and no one could run out of a house, hit someone and then run back in. Thus was the compromise made.. all because of the Yew Gate of Moronic Smiting.
Two sweeping changes to the entire game, because of one area of pvp conflict. Personally, I think both changes were made for the wrong reason. I'm not a fan of either one.
Blame the Yew gate of stupidity. Once upon a time, reds hid in houses, and blues hugged the guardzone. And there was much whining.
The blues cried because the reds would run out and hit them and then dive back into their houses.. the reds cried because they would get guardwhacked. The whining got louder. Both sides wanted change.. whaaaaaaaah.
So they both got what they asked for. The reds could now enter the guardzone, and no one could run out of a house, hit someone and then run back in. Thus was the compromise made.. all because of the Yew Gate of Moronic Smiting.
Two sweeping changes to the entire game, because of one area of pvp conflict. Personally, I think both changes were made for the wrong reason. I'm not a fan of either one.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
so exactly why are you wanting to remove the guard zones if you are a blue? ive never seen a blue whine about a guard zone being there to cry in for help. i seem to have either got lost or dont see the point of view you are coming from.......
[/ QUOTE ]
Red players who want to stay in the guard zone are trying to paint me as some scared blue player. But it couldn't be further from the truth. I play a red when it is worthwhile (IE: there are blues that need killing). At the moment the only players we ever fight are red so there is no reason to get on mine.
I don't think the guard zones should be removed from Felucca, but I don't care if they are. I just want murderers back out of the guard zones because it doesn't make sense, they kill players inside them without possible retribution, they constantly post how terrible it is that they can't cross heal and the whole reason for letting them inside has not worked out.
It doesn't matter to me that the players I usually stick up for suddenly cast me to the other side. That is just the way they are.
<blockquote><hr>
I can tell you exactly why this change happened.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can recall that huge arguement now. It went on for quite a while. The red change was justified by needing to let the now prevalent murderer population into faction bases and easier access to champion spawns.
so exactly why are you wanting to remove the guard zones if you are a blue? ive never seen a blue whine about a guard zone being there to cry in for help. i seem to have either got lost or dont see the point of view you are coming from.......
[/ QUOTE ]
Red players who want to stay in the guard zone are trying to paint me as some scared blue player. But it couldn't be further from the truth. I play a red when it is worthwhile (IE: there are blues that need killing). At the moment the only players we ever fight are red so there is no reason to get on mine.
I don't think the guard zones should be removed from Felucca, but I don't care if they are. I just want murderers back out of the guard zones because it doesn't make sense, they kill players inside them without possible retribution, they constantly post how terrible it is that they can't cross heal and the whole reason for letting them inside has not worked out.
It doesn't matter to me that the players I usually stick up for suddenly cast me to the other side. That is just the way they are.
<blockquote><hr>
I can tell you exactly why this change happened.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can recall that huge arguement now. It went on for quite a while. The red change was justified by needing to let the now prevalent murderer population into faction bases and easier access to champion spawns.
S
stevethepirate86
Guest
i havent tried to paint you to look like anything. you simply stated that you usually play on a blue, as i stated prior i only have one red and that chara rarely even makes it near a guard zone. simple misunderstanding of one veiw was all. i still like the reds in the zone because i have no idea how many times 4 blues come to attack start getting beat and run for the zone redlined screaming guards, one well placed attack and their lil tactic was in vain
C
Clx-
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I agree with J.C. the builder.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't find that at all suprising^^
I agree with J.C. the builder.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't find that at all suprising^^
G
Guest
Guest
How about if they block the looting of any murder of a blue char in the guard zone.. The idea has to be they want to loot you.. If they can not then they would not kamikaze to slay the blues in the guard zone. I had an issue where 10 reds run around me in fel and blocked me in.. they took turn being naked and attacking my pet IN TOWN.. They have nothing to lose. I did come BACK to fel.. I had brought 10 or more ppl to fel to play too. I am not happy with the reds in BLUE town.. Go back to Buc's Den.. That is a RED town after all.
I did not mind them in town so much till they found away around the guard wack. When they all take turn harrassing players they they WANT in they area. They force the player back out with small deadly changes.
Again make it as to where if a blue is murdered in the GUARD ZONE ONLY they can not be looted but only if they are not flagged to the red. After all if you want to play with the reds.. They are likely to paint the area red with your blood. If they would just make the area around the moongate SAFE where NO ONE can be attacked ,no attack back unless flagged it would stop the gate fighting and more importantly the GATE HUGGING. I am all for PvP. Just not the harassment till they are able to run ppl out of the area.
I did not mind them in town so much till they found away around the guard wack. When they all take turn harrassing players they they WANT in they area. They force the player back out with small deadly changes.
Again make it as to where if a blue is murdered in the GUARD ZONE ONLY they can not be looted but only if they are not flagged to the red. After all if you want to play with the reds.. They are likely to paint the area red with your blood. If they would just make the area around the moongate SAFE where NO ONE can be attacked ,no attack back unless flagged it would stop the gate fighting and more importantly the GATE HUGGING. I am all for PvP. Just not the harassment till they are able to run ppl out of the area.
G
Guest
Guest
There is a flaw in this argument. Perhaps it has been pointed out, and I missed it, but, just in case...
If you are in Trammel, reds in town are not an issue.
If you are in Fel, you are there by choice.
You are there knowing that other players, red or blue, can attack you at any moment.
you know that this can happen in town or out of it.
A blue who wants to go red can attack you just as easily as someone who is already red.
So, keeping reds out of town is utterly pointless. An aspiring red can cause you just as many problems as an accomplished red.
If you want to be in a 'safe' town, then leave Fel to conduct your business.
For anyone other than Siege or Mugen players, that is a very easy option, and requires a single charge in your runebook.
Putting unnecesary restrictions on reds simply because you don't think they should be in town only serves to take even more time away from the devs.
Now, how would you react if they requested that blues be kept out of Sanctuary and Buc's Den? After all, those were supposed to be towns for the lawless rebels of society, were they not? Imagine if you had to go red to get the spellweaving scroll to control imps...!
If you are in Trammel, reds in town are not an issue.
If you are in Fel, you are there by choice.
You are there knowing that other players, red or blue, can attack you at any moment.
you know that this can happen in town or out of it.
A blue who wants to go red can attack you just as easily as someone who is already red.
So, keeping reds out of town is utterly pointless. An aspiring red can cause you just as many problems as an accomplished red.
If you want to be in a 'safe' town, then leave Fel to conduct your business.
For anyone other than Siege or Mugen players, that is a very easy option, and requires a single charge in your runebook.
Putting unnecesary restrictions on reds simply because you don't think they should be in town only serves to take even more time away from the devs.
Now, how would you react if they requested that blues be kept out of Sanctuary and Buc's Den? After all, those were supposed to be towns for the lawless rebels of society, were they not? Imagine if you had to go red to get the spellweaving scroll to control imps...!
C
Crystilastmous
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
1. Reds in Town
2. Reds Stat-Loss
Anways, reds nowdays are nothing but a "more convineant" PvP class with many "advantages" over blues as a serious pvper other than small disadvantage of "watchout for attacking blues in the guardzone". And I am not ******** like many reds nowdays. If you "know the limits" and have experienced back when reds were truly "hardcore" you shouldnt make any ******** mistakes like getting guardwacked.
[/ QUOTE ]
Convenient how? Convenient in the sense that they can be attacked at will by ANYONE without any recourse other than the red being able to fight back?
Convenient in the sense that they are aren't allowed to access any facet other than Felucca or use NPC vendors?
Or how about Convenient when you need positive karma for an Oaks spawn or chivalry?
They aren't really convenient at all, that's the point; you go red for being a murderer, it is a penalty.
They dropped stat loss and instant guard zone whacking to encourage PvP, They also gave a 1 time reprieve (they turned EVERYONE blue) for any of those "hardcore" enough to be red.
And Link give us a break , What hidden agenda are you trying to push this time?
1. Reds in Town
2. Reds Stat-Loss
Anways, reds nowdays are nothing but a "more convineant" PvP class with many "advantages" over blues as a serious pvper other than small disadvantage of "watchout for attacking blues in the guardzone". And I am not ******** like many reds nowdays. If you "know the limits" and have experienced back when reds were truly "hardcore" you shouldnt make any ******** mistakes like getting guardwacked.
[/ QUOTE ]
Convenient how? Convenient in the sense that they can be attacked at will by ANYONE without any recourse other than the red being able to fight back?
Convenient in the sense that they are aren't allowed to access any facet other than Felucca or use NPC vendors?
Or how about Convenient when you need positive karma for an Oaks spawn or chivalry?
They aren't really convenient at all, that's the point; you go red for being a murderer, it is a penalty.
They dropped stat loss and instant guard zone whacking to encourage PvP, They also gave a 1 time reprieve (they turned EVERYONE blue) for any of those "hardcore" enough to be red.
And Link give us a break , What hidden agenda are you trying to push this time?
C
Crystilastmous
Guest
What you are doing now is changing the subject and manipulating the means to justify an end.
C
Crystilastmous
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I think guard zones are fine in Felucca. Having houses located everywhere that offer completely safety is the issue. People are really quick to say they want the guard zones removed but no one is talking about the same for houses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Changing the subject to detract from your ill-received OP I see Link
I think guard zones are fine in Felucca. Having houses located everywhere that offer completely safety is the issue. People are really quick to say they want the guard zones removed but no one is talking about the same for houses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Changing the subject to detract from your ill-received OP I see Link
G
Guest
Guest
Yes remove reds ftom tonws that means kill on sight for pks in towns by guards.
Remove the serverline for bucceners den so reds can bank and stable and pvp there.Make some more outpost wtih guards in felcua and guards wich randomy partol felcua olso champspawns and we will get the time where pks dont play uo like QUAKE SHOOTER and we get more dinamik in uo and not only this stupiditty yew gate.
Lets change the pvp from yew gate to the hal sossoria.Im playing eve online now too and i see they have like uo old days a bounty stystem.Where is ouer bounty system?The pvp in eve is not at one yew gate its everywhere in low sector.Now you will say yes pvp is olso in uo at champs.Im not sure if this is true becasue most hardcore pvpler have for 3 char all powerscrolls and hanging around yew gate.Same wtih pve player from trammel by making doom-2 seling arties and buyng all powerscrolls and later hanging on yew gate.
Remove the serverline for bucceners den so reds can bank and stable and pvp there.Make some more outpost wtih guards in felcua and guards wich randomy partol felcua olso champspawns and we will get the time where pks dont play uo like QUAKE SHOOTER and we get more dinamik in uo and not only this stupiditty yew gate.
Lets change the pvp from yew gate to the hal sossoria.Im playing eve online now too and i see they have like uo old days a bounty stystem.Where is ouer bounty system?The pvp in eve is not at one yew gate its everywhere in low sector.Now you will say yes pvp is olso in uo at champs.Im not sure if this is true becasue most hardcore pvpler have for 3 char all powerscrolls and hanging around yew gate.Same wtih pve player from trammel by making doom-2 seling arties and buyng all powerscrolls and later hanging on yew gate.
Actually, it makes perfect sense in context of what Felucca is. Felucca is no longer the stable Kingdom of Britannia... it is a wartorn zone that four factions are fighting for control of, and which Minax was able to drive Lord British from.
Honestly, the guards in Felucca only maintain order within a town. They're sort of "Hey, mind your business, everything's fine... act up, and you're dead."
Makes PERFECT sense, actually.
Honestly, the guards in Felucca only maintain order within a town. They're sort of "Hey, mind your business, everything's fine... act up, and you're dead."
Makes PERFECT sense, actually.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
So, keeping reds out of town is utterly pointless. An aspiring red can cause you just as many problems as an accomplished red.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except a blue probably wants to stay blue and will have to work off 40 hours after killing an innocent player. A red does not have to work off any count.
<blockquote><hr>
Changing the subject to detract from your ill-received OP
[/ QUOTE ]
It is not changing the subject. In town you are never safe, in houses you are completely safe compared to pre-AOS. In fact, there wasn't much of an issue with house hiding until the Age of Shadows introduced private housing which no one can enter unless accessed.
So, keeping reds out of town is utterly pointless. An aspiring red can cause you just as many problems as an accomplished red.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except a blue probably wants to stay blue and will have to work off 40 hours after killing an innocent player. A red does not have to work off any count.
<blockquote><hr>
Changing the subject to detract from your ill-received OP
[/ QUOTE ]
It is not changing the subject. In town you are never safe, in houses you are completely safe compared to pre-AOS. In fact, there wasn't much of an issue with house hiding until the Age of Shadows introduced private housing which no one can enter unless accessed.
I
imported_UOPODCASTING.COM
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I just want murderers back out of the guard zones because it doesn't make sense, they kill players inside them without possible retribution, ...
[/ QUOTE ]
Your arguments and the one I have highlighted are selfish and inaccurate.
Players that suicide and kill blues in guards zones don't need to be red to accomplish this. They could also be killed by blues as well and the blue can do it to 4 people on each char. So with 7 chars that makes 28 kills per account for free. Then they just macro off the counts.
Reds in guard zones can be ganked easily by blues without the blues having anything to worry about.
Your whining about reds in a guard zone is selfish, self serving and illogical.
Present a decent argument and you have my ear, whine about game mechanics that reds are supposedly exploiting when the same mechanics can be exploited by blues makes no sense and is a stupid illogical argument.
I just want murderers back out of the guard zones because it doesn't make sense, they kill players inside them without possible retribution, ...
[/ QUOTE ]
Your arguments and the one I have highlighted are selfish and inaccurate.
Players that suicide and kill blues in guards zones don't need to be red to accomplish this. They could also be killed by blues as well and the blue can do it to 4 people on each char. So with 7 chars that makes 28 kills per account for free. Then they just macro off the counts.
Reds in guard zones can be ganked easily by blues without the blues having anything to worry about.
Your whining about reds in a guard zone is selfish, self serving and illogical.
Present a decent argument and you have my ear, whine about game mechanics that reds are supposedly exploiting when the same mechanics can be exploited by blues makes no sense and is a stupid illogical argument.
G
Guest
Guest
Reds in GZ was only unique to SP and alike shards. Then they changed it. Now all SP has is healing reds in GZ.
A
Ariel2
Guest
im sure its been said but not reading whole thread.... dont want to go back to days when blues could attack and run back into guards and hide and you cant do anything about it.
I
imported_Anakena
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
ok reds not being able to go to towns in fel is just crazy just because you have a blue doesnt mean you should have anymore benfeits. now around the moongates sure drop the GZ and kiss the blues there goodbye. i have 7 charas of which one is red. i think the way things are is more towards a blue is better off. if you dont like the reds in fel attacking you in town...... ummm why are you in FEL?
[/ QUOTE ]
The GZ around moongates is there to avoid people getting ganked when they just arrive at destination. It would be like trapping dungeon entrances. So these GZ must stay.
If there are fights around moongates, it is because blues can hide in the GZ BUT also, very often, because the red often hide in their houses around the moongate. This more a cat and mouse than PvP.
If you remove the GZ around moongates, you remove gate PvP as well.
ok reds not being able to go to towns in fel is just crazy just because you have a blue doesnt mean you should have anymore benfeits. now around the moongates sure drop the GZ and kiss the blues there goodbye. i have 7 charas of which one is red. i think the way things are is more towards a blue is better off. if you dont like the reds in fel attacking you in town...... ummm why are you in FEL?
[/ QUOTE ]
The GZ around moongates is there to avoid people getting ganked when they just arrive at destination. It would be like trapping dungeon entrances. So these GZ must stay.
If there are fights around moongates, it is because blues can hide in the GZ BUT also, very often, because the red often hide in their houses around the moongate. This more a cat and mouse than PvP.
If you remove the GZ around moongates, you remove gate PvP as well.
all of you saying reds should not be allowed in gz or give us stat loss again odviously didnt play when it was real and it sucked. so limited the way it is.
how about this, how about a blue guard wacking area? alwasy wanted to see a blue get wacked.
how about this, how about a blue guard wacking area? alwasy wanted to see a blue get wacked.
S
stevethepirate86
Guest
i never said to remove anything i like the way things are now. second thsi thread is about the GZ not house hiding from what i read.... i think if people have a problem with reds in anyway thats what tram is for.
I
imported_Anakena
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
all of you saying reds should not be allowed in gz or give us stat loss again odviously didnt play when it was real and it sucked. so limited the way it is.
how about this, how about a blue guard wacking area? alwasy wanted to see a blue get wacked.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it was a good move from the devs to allow reds in GZ and to remove skill loss ( never understood why people are speaking of "stat" loss).
The reason was to give them easier access to T2a. It could have been also possible by removing guard zones around T2A entrances, but then reds would just trap these entrances (this kind of "pvp" should not be promoted).
Skill loss was a too big penalty but it had a good side effect as reds had to be good at Pk'ing. Nowadays, a good part of the red population is a joke compared to what reds used to be.
This is why I always thought that a temporary skill loss (be it 5 minutes) should be introduced. I think the game should promote real skill based PvP rather than number PvP (zergs).
all of you saying reds should not be allowed in gz or give us stat loss again odviously didnt play when it was real and it sucked. so limited the way it is.
how about this, how about a blue guard wacking area? alwasy wanted to see a blue get wacked.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it was a good move from the devs to allow reds in GZ and to remove skill loss ( never understood why people are speaking of "stat" loss).
The reason was to give them easier access to T2a. It could have been also possible by removing guard zones around T2A entrances, but then reds would just trap these entrances (this kind of "pvp" should not be promoted).
Skill loss was a too big penalty but it had a good side effect as reds had to be good at Pk'ing. Nowadays, a good part of the red population is a joke compared to what reds used to be.
This is why I always thought that a temporary skill loss (be it 5 minutes) should be introduced. I think the game should promote real skill based PvP rather than number PvP (zergs).
R
Razeial
Guest
RTLFC..
Guard zones in fel should be removed. If people are worried about being intsa killed as soon as they step through a moongate, then maybe they can make it to where you are temporarily un-attackable as soon as you come through, say maybe 7 seconds? Everyone says "punish the reds!! they're murderers!!!"
We are punished. We've been punished for many years. If we want to go to trammel, we have to wait 40 hours per count to get blue again. As it was pointed out earlier in the thread, each character gets 4 free murders before going red.... How about we make it down to 1? 1 murder = insta red, and keep the 40 hours on. Maybe then we'll see alot less blues hugging the guard zones in fel. It just seems to me that very few people has enough balls left to play a red. Seriously, People come to felucca for Three reasons, to spawn for scrolls, to get double resources, and to PvP. Blues have 4 (FOUR) facets to play in.........FOUR!!!! I think it's only fair that felucca be a land of bloodshed and murder. Centered completely around PvP. People cry about having GZ for spawning...or for resources gathering.....well the whole reason either of those are there, is encouragement for blues to come to fel for Pk's to have something to kill....what a concept..........
Guard zones in fel should be removed. If people are worried about being intsa killed as soon as they step through a moongate, then maybe they can make it to where you are temporarily un-attackable as soon as you come through, say maybe 7 seconds? Everyone says "punish the reds!! they're murderers!!!"
We are punished. We've been punished for many years. If we want to go to trammel, we have to wait 40 hours per count to get blue again. As it was pointed out earlier in the thread, each character gets 4 free murders before going red.... How about we make it down to 1? 1 murder = insta red, and keep the 40 hours on. Maybe then we'll see alot less blues hugging the guard zones in fel. It just seems to me that very few people has enough balls left to play a red. Seriously, People come to felucca for Three reasons, to spawn for scrolls, to get double resources, and to PvP. Blues have 4 (FOUR) facets to play in.........FOUR!!!! I think it's only fair that felucca be a land of bloodshed and murder. Centered completely around PvP. People cry about having GZ for spawning...or for resources gathering.....well the whole reason either of those are there, is encouragement for blues to come to fel for Pk's to have something to kill....what a concept..........
<blockquote><hr>
RTLFC..
Guard zones in fel should be removed. If people are worried about being intsa killed as soon as they step through a moongate, then maybe they can make it to where you are temporarily un-attackable as soon as you come through, say maybe 7 seconds? Everyone says "punish the reds!! they're murderers!!!"
We are punished. We've been punished for many years. If we want to go to trammel, we have to wait 40 hours per count to get blue again. As it was pointed out earlier in the thread, each character gets 4 free murders before going red.... How about we make it down to 1? 1 murder = insta red, and keep the 40 hours on. Maybe then we'll see alot less blues hugging the guard zones in fel. It just seems to me that very few people has enough balls left to play a red. Seriously, People come to felucca for Three reasons, to spawn for scrolls, to get double resources, and to PvP. Blues have 4 (FOUR) facets to play in.........FOUR!!!! I think it's only fair that felucca be a land of bloodshed and murder. Centered completely around PvP. People cry about having GZ for spawning...or for resources gathering.....well the whole reason either of those are there, is encouragement for blues to come to fel for Pk's to have something to kill....what a concept..........
[/ QUOTE ]
You sir are my hero.
RTLFC..
Guard zones in fel should be removed. If people are worried about being intsa killed as soon as they step through a moongate, then maybe they can make it to where you are temporarily un-attackable as soon as you come through, say maybe 7 seconds? Everyone says "punish the reds!! they're murderers!!!"
We are punished. We've been punished for many years. If we want to go to trammel, we have to wait 40 hours per count to get blue again. As it was pointed out earlier in the thread, each character gets 4 free murders before going red.... How about we make it down to 1? 1 murder = insta red, and keep the 40 hours on. Maybe then we'll see alot less blues hugging the guard zones in fel. It just seems to me that very few people has enough balls left to play a red. Seriously, People come to felucca for Three reasons, to spawn for scrolls, to get double resources, and to PvP. Blues have 4 (FOUR) facets to play in.........FOUR!!!! I think it's only fair that felucca be a land of bloodshed and murder. Centered completely around PvP. People cry about having GZ for spawning...or for resources gathering.....well the whole reason either of those are there, is encouragement for blues to come to fel for Pk's to have something to kill....what a concept..........
[/ QUOTE ]
You sir are my hero.
A
Avril/McNasty
Guest
Goodness... Link's crying never ceases.
Leave as is or remove all guard zones.
Leave as is or remove all guard zones.
<blockquote><hr>
Actually, it makes perfect sense in context of what Felucca is. Felucca is no longer the stable Kingdom of Britannia... it is a wartorn zone that four factions are fighting for control of, and which Minax was able to drive Lord British from.
Honestly, the guards in Felucca only maintain order within a town. They're sort of "Hey, mind your business, everything's fine... act up, and you're dead."
Makes PERFECT sense, actually.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that reds should not be able to enter guard zones, basically from a simple roleplay perspective. That's why I have to comment on your post.
Now, your arguement is that Fel is an unstable land, and that makes perfect sense. I agree with it. But, what doesn't make sense is still having guards in an unstable environment. Here's an idea.
Faction content! (This is just but one simple idea). Factions which control a specific town can choose whether or not their town is a guardzone or not. Reds or no reds. Totally up to the faction who controls it. This would make total sense from a roleplay point of view.
The way it is now, is senseless. Reds are murderers. They should be frowned upon in any guardzone that is supposed to have a sense of security. I know the whole champ spawn thing rather skews it all, but if your scarfing up 120 scrolls I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who goes red even defending from blues. Risk vs. reward and all that crap.
I'm not saying I'm against a whole notoriety revamp.....just sayin that the way things work now, if you want scrolls, be prepared to go red.
If they were ever to do anything with factions again, I'd like to see town control include the "security" factor.
Actually, it makes perfect sense in context of what Felucca is. Felucca is no longer the stable Kingdom of Britannia... it is a wartorn zone that four factions are fighting for control of, and which Minax was able to drive Lord British from.
Honestly, the guards in Felucca only maintain order within a town. They're sort of "Hey, mind your business, everything's fine... act up, and you're dead."
Makes PERFECT sense, actually.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that reds should not be able to enter guard zones, basically from a simple roleplay perspective. That's why I have to comment on your post.
Now, your arguement is that Fel is an unstable land, and that makes perfect sense. I agree with it. But, what doesn't make sense is still having guards in an unstable environment. Here's an idea.
Faction content! (This is just but one simple idea). Factions which control a specific town can choose whether or not their town is a guardzone or not. Reds or no reds. Totally up to the faction who controls it. This would make total sense from a roleplay point of view.
The way it is now, is senseless. Reds are murderers. They should be frowned upon in any guardzone that is supposed to have a sense of security. I know the whole champ spawn thing rather skews it all, but if your scarfing up 120 scrolls I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who goes red even defending from blues. Risk vs. reward and all that crap.
I'm not saying I'm against a whole notoriety revamp.....just sayin that the way things work now, if you want scrolls, be prepared to go red.
If they were ever to do anything with factions again, I'd like to see town control include the "security" factor.
<blockquote><hr>
I agree that reds should not be able to enter guard zones, basically from a simple roleplay perspective. That's why I have to comment on your post.
Now, your arguement is that Fel is an unstable land, and that makes perfect sense. I agree with it. But, what doesn't make sense is still having guards in an unstable environment.
[/ QUOTE ]From my viewpoint, it still makes sense to have guards in an unstable area. Consider that even the most rag-tag haven for thieves in many movies still have guards to protect the people who are around, stop the bar fights, et cetera. Thieves are still able to roam freely, murders and muggers are able to play it safe, but when someone acts up, they get in trouble.
<blockquote><hr>
Faction content! (This is just but one simple idea). Factions which control a specific town can choose whether or not their town is a guardzone or not. Reds or no reds. Totally up to the faction who controls it. This would make total sense from a roleplay point of view.
[/ QUOTE ]Well, except that this still puts it as a Red vs. No Reds thing, and in Felucca, it shouldn't be. Guard zone vs. no-guard zone, I'd be fine with, but I think in Fel, Reds should be fine in towns. And no, I definitely don't have a red at the moment.
<blockquote><hr>
The way it is now, is senseless. Reds are murderers. They should be frowned upon in any guardzone that is supposed to have a sense of security.
[/ QUOTE ]But why? Sure, they're murderers. But why would the guards care? It's not like they're being paid to protect the city from murderers. They're being paid to protect the people in the city. They understand that what goes on in the wider world is a more harsh environ.
Let's put it this way... It's possible to go red through non-PK actions in Felucca. That's part of the reason that the system was changed to what it is now. Let me define PK as those who attack other players wantonly and without abandon. If I fight back against a PK and start fighting his blue healer, and that healer somehow goes blue during the fight (oh god, the number of times that has happened...), I take a murder count. That happens frequently (ie: anyone who PvPs regularly), and voila, you're done for and a murderer.
Felucca reflects the more "player justice" beginnings of UO. I'm not sure why there's a sudden surge of people wanting to be super duper safe in the cities there, because there's plenty of stuff to do outside of Felucca. Heck, I'm not sure why anyone would feel compelled to bank in Feluccan towns. If factions were stronger, it would make sense, but right now the faction system is a joke.
<blockquote><hr>
I know the whole champ spawn thing rather skews it all, but if your scarfing up 120 scrolls I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who goes red even defending from blues. Risk vs. reward and all that crap.
[/ QUOTE ]Okay, well, again, what difference does it make that the reds are allowed in town? None.
<blockquote><hr>
I'm not saying I'm against a whole notoriety revamp.....just sayin that the way things work now, if you want scrolls, be prepared to go red.
[/ QUOTE ]It could use a revamp, but really, there's no need for strong consequences for going red in Felucca anymore. I mean, honestly, the fact that you can be attacked anywhere in Felucca and are restricted to a small portion of the game world (remember, no Malas, Tokuno, Ilshenar, or Felucca for a red) is punishment enough.
<blockquote><hr>
If they were ever to do anything with factions again, I'd like to see town control include the "security" factor.
[/ QUOTE ]I'd love to see them make factions viable again. It would certain be interesting.
I agree that reds should not be able to enter guard zones, basically from a simple roleplay perspective. That's why I have to comment on your post.
Now, your arguement is that Fel is an unstable land, and that makes perfect sense. I agree with it. But, what doesn't make sense is still having guards in an unstable environment.
[/ QUOTE ]From my viewpoint, it still makes sense to have guards in an unstable area. Consider that even the most rag-tag haven for thieves in many movies still have guards to protect the people who are around, stop the bar fights, et cetera. Thieves are still able to roam freely, murders and muggers are able to play it safe, but when someone acts up, they get in trouble.
<blockquote><hr>
Faction content! (This is just but one simple idea). Factions which control a specific town can choose whether or not their town is a guardzone or not. Reds or no reds. Totally up to the faction who controls it. This would make total sense from a roleplay point of view.
[/ QUOTE ]Well, except that this still puts it as a Red vs. No Reds thing, and in Felucca, it shouldn't be. Guard zone vs. no-guard zone, I'd be fine with, but I think in Fel, Reds should be fine in towns. And no, I definitely don't have a red at the moment.
<blockquote><hr>
The way it is now, is senseless. Reds are murderers. They should be frowned upon in any guardzone that is supposed to have a sense of security.
[/ QUOTE ]But why? Sure, they're murderers. But why would the guards care? It's not like they're being paid to protect the city from murderers. They're being paid to protect the people in the city. They understand that what goes on in the wider world is a more harsh environ.
Let's put it this way... It's possible to go red through non-PK actions in Felucca. That's part of the reason that the system was changed to what it is now. Let me define PK as those who attack other players wantonly and without abandon. If I fight back against a PK and start fighting his blue healer, and that healer somehow goes blue during the fight (oh god, the number of times that has happened...), I take a murder count. That happens frequently (ie: anyone who PvPs regularly), and voila, you're done for and a murderer.
Felucca reflects the more "player justice" beginnings of UO. I'm not sure why there's a sudden surge of people wanting to be super duper safe in the cities there, because there's plenty of stuff to do outside of Felucca. Heck, I'm not sure why anyone would feel compelled to bank in Feluccan towns. If factions were stronger, it would make sense, but right now the faction system is a joke.
<blockquote><hr>
I know the whole champ spawn thing rather skews it all, but if your scarfing up 120 scrolls I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who goes red even defending from blues. Risk vs. reward and all that crap.
[/ QUOTE ]Okay, well, again, what difference does it make that the reds are allowed in town? None.
<blockquote><hr>
I'm not saying I'm against a whole notoriety revamp.....just sayin that the way things work now, if you want scrolls, be prepared to go red.
[/ QUOTE ]It could use a revamp, but really, there's no need for strong consequences for going red in Felucca anymore. I mean, honestly, the fact that you can be attacked anywhere in Felucca and are restricted to a small portion of the game world (remember, no Malas, Tokuno, Ilshenar, or Felucca for a red) is punishment enough.
<blockquote><hr>
If they were ever to do anything with factions again, I'd like to see town control include the "security" factor.
[/ QUOTE ]I'd love to see them make factions viable again. It would certain be interesting.
Aye, it sounds like your main issue is with the whole notoriety system in general in today's UO. Valid points. I believe it was revenent2 who had a thread on this same issue about a week ago. Too lazy to find it for ya though 
....
He had some good ideas I thought on a whole revamp of how notoriety would work in chamspawns.
I do still think that there should be at least some controlled areas of Fel, that would be "safer" than being outside of town. I mean ...its a town. Most the games I've played over the years (not to mention movies) guards have always harrassed known villians when they show their face in town.
Again though, tis true, there's no way for a guard to tell how someone went red. That kind of screws up the whole roleplay effect as well.
Ah well, we deal with what weve got. I have a char I want to start champing on (or trying at least lol) but I really dont want her going red. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet if I want "free" scrolls and make a dedicated character for doing it. I would think the hardcore pvp'ers would have already munched on the bullet though and have several reds for doing so.
Time will tell. They at least have mentioned factions are being looked at. See ya in the year 2029!
....He had some good ideas I thought on a whole revamp of how notoriety would work in chamspawns.
I do still think that there should be at least some controlled areas of Fel, that would be "safer" than being outside of town. I mean ...its a town. Most the games I've played over the years (not to mention movies) guards have always harrassed known villians when they show their face in town.
Again though, tis true, there's no way for a guard to tell how someone went red. That kind of screws up the whole roleplay effect as well.
Ah well, we deal with what weve got. I have a char I want to start champing on (or trying at least lol) but I really dont want her going red. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet if I want "free" scrolls and make a dedicated character for doing it. I would think the hardcore pvp'ers would have already munched on the bullet though and have several reds for doing so.
Time will tell. They at least have mentioned factions are being looked at. See ya in the year 2029!
F
Fayled Dhreams
Guest
Well .. your one of the few that might be able to draft one ...
a full on, all aspect Flagging / noteriety system ...
instead of the current piece by piece, instance by instance this that the other thing then flip it for tuesdays ... sort of approach the boardies have been doing ...
want to waste some time and give it a shot ?
just a draft ... three catagories ... Factions, PvP, dual facet guild wars ...
*shrugs*
Hmmm?
a full on, all aspect Flagging / noteriety system ...
instead of the current piece by piece, instance by instance this that the other thing then flip it for tuesdays ... sort of approach the boardies have been doing ...
want to waste some time and give it a shot ?
just a draft ... three catagories ... Factions, PvP, dual facet guild wars ...
*shrugs*
Hmmm?
<blockquote><hr>
Since Publish 24 on April 29, 2004 murderers have been allowed to enter guard zones as any blue can in Felucca rulesets. *lots of other words*
[/ QUOTE ]
Reds not being able to enter a guardzone is a great idea, with the proviso that this change be linked with "every EVERY PK death offers the opportunity to give a count, regardless of the status of the victim; and the further change that counts cannot be burned-off."
If your blue kills my blue, red or grey, I should have the option to give you a count.
You cannot lose your counts by AFKing at Luna gate when you reach four kills (which is what an awful lot of so-called PvPers do)
My proposed fix removes Noto PvP and gate Blues who run from Felucca when they get four counts. That sounds like a reasonable compromise if we are to disallow Reds from normal guard zones.
(Buccs Den was always an awful place to fight, due to the multiplicity of server lines, so once this system has been introduced, a better "red banking" town should be introduced.}
Since Publish 24 on April 29, 2004 murderers have been allowed to enter guard zones as any blue can in Felucca rulesets. *lots of other words*
[/ QUOTE ]
Reds not being able to enter a guardzone is a great idea, with the proviso that this change be linked with "every EVERY PK death offers the opportunity to give a count, regardless of the status of the victim; and the further change that counts cannot be burned-off."
If your blue kills my blue, red or grey, I should have the option to give you a count.
You cannot lose your counts by AFKing at Luna gate when you reach four kills (which is what an awful lot of so-called PvPers do)
My proposed fix removes Noto PvP and gate Blues who run from Felucca when they get four counts. That sounds like a reasonable compromise if we are to disallow Reds from normal guard zones.
(Buccs Den was always an awful place to fight, due to the multiplicity of server lines, so once this system has been introduced, a better "red banking" town should be introduced.}
hehe, I thank you FD for the compliment
.....but to be brutally honest, I really believe, by my own admission, not to be versed well enough in TODAY'S UO noto system.
Back in the day, it was simple. You kill someone, you go red.
Revenent2 really did have some good ideas I thought, although his system I believe was too complicated. Me, I like to keep things as simple as possible.
I wish you had asked me to make a rough draft of my proposed crafting and item system.........I could probably be coaxed someday into crashing the stratics server with that one
It's late, I'm still shaking from the PROPOSED (and hopefully soon to be thrown out entirely ) Arch Cure nerf, but what the whole thing boiled down to was this:
Within a champ spawn area, and a champ spawn area only, you would not take murder counts. At least if your within the original spawner group. This way, any red, grey, purple...whatever, could defend against a raiding guild on their blue characters (or red...wtver) without fear of taking counts. Now, with that said, I would think there should also be in place some system that would know WHO, is currently working the champ spawn. Perhaps let it be the party system. Those party members would be "flagged" by the server as the combatants of the champ. You could even go so far as to flag any group of players that entered the champ area after a certain amount of spawn is killed, criminal for interfering, thus eliminating murder counts another way for the original party. This could also be tied into the virtue sytem. The sytem could recognize what party is going to activate the champ using a virtue, thus an avenue of knowing who are the intended attackers.
This way, any raiding guild, if they so choose, can still raid, but will indeed take murder penalties by killing any member of the original party, red or not. This at least works that if you do indeed attempt to steal scrolls as in a raid, you risk more by either going red, or using all red characters to begin with. (Greedy people are evil
)
Factions: woooof....thats a tough one.
All kinds of content here could be put in place. But a simple solution would be that any opposing faction member would not take counts at all. Players could fight to take control of the towns just like the old days, but instead of just placing a bunch of sentinels, or reagent vendors, there could be other perks as well. Perhaps even go so far as to have enemy factions compete for champ spawn territory. Factions could control entire towns, setting certain rules, and even the dungeons for limited amounts of time.
I would think these two simple implements would tend to make sure that if a character were red, they were out picking fights with blues out in the big wide world. And it would keep faction warfare fun, without terrible penalties for just killing blues of the opposing side, that you should be fighting anyway.
But it would make sure any miner killers, or Highwaymen, would indeed go red and incur said penalties.
It's simple, I know. Just basic ideas thrown out there. More of a brainstorm than a rough draft.
/edit.... I found the thread.
http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=7664350&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1&what2=showflat&selv=&vwhich=
/edit edit...ahh you know the thread....you were talkin about orgies!
NERF ORGIES!
I'm never invited to any! So they are ov3rpowered!
This could also introduce the whole grey criminal flag pretty much the same way it is now....only expanded to champ spawns......if they could figure out who the original party members were and have been working up the spawn. Greys could still come do raids as intended, but if you can defend your "temporary battleground...territory" then so be it. Should'nt be penalized for it.
Back in the day, it was simple. You kill someone, you go red.
Revenent2 really did have some good ideas I thought, although his system I believe was too complicated. Me, I like to keep things as simple as possible.
I wish you had asked me to make a rough draft of my proposed crafting and item system
.........I could probably be coaxed someday into crashing the stratics server with that one
It's late, I'm still shaking from the PROPOSED (and hopefully soon to be thrown out entirely ) Arch Cure nerf, but what the whole thing boiled down to was this:
Within a champ spawn area, and a champ spawn area only, you would not take murder counts. At least if your within the original spawner group. This way, any red, grey, purple...whatever, could defend against a raiding guild on their blue characters (or red...wtver) without fear of taking counts. Now, with that said, I would think there should also be in place some system that would know WHO, is currently working the champ spawn. Perhaps let it be the party system. Those party members would be "flagged" by the server as the combatants of the champ. You could even go so far as to flag any group of players that entered the champ area after a certain amount of spawn is killed, criminal for interfering, thus eliminating murder counts another way for the original party. This could also be tied into the virtue sytem. The sytem could recognize what party is going to activate the champ using a virtue, thus an avenue of knowing who are the intended attackers.
This way, any raiding guild, if they so choose, can still raid, but will indeed take murder penalties by killing any member of the original party, red or not. This at least works that if you do indeed attempt to steal scrolls as in a raid, you risk more by either going red, or using all red characters to begin with. (Greedy people are evil
Factions: woooof....thats a tough one.
All kinds of content here could be put in place. But a simple solution would be that any opposing faction member would not take counts at all. Players could fight to take control of the towns just like the old days, but instead of just placing a bunch of sentinels, or reagent vendors, there could be other perks as well. Perhaps even go so far as to have enemy factions compete for champ spawn territory. Factions could control entire towns, setting certain rules, and even the dungeons for limited amounts of time.
I would think these two simple implements would tend to make sure that if a character were red, they were out picking fights with blues out in the big wide world. And it would keep faction warfare fun, without terrible penalties for just killing blues of the opposing side, that you should be fighting anyway.
But it would make sure any miner killers, or Highwaymen, would indeed go red and incur said penalties.
It's simple, I know. Just basic ideas thrown out there. More of a brainstorm than a rough draft.
/edit.... I found the thread.
http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=7664350&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1&what2=showflat&selv=&vwhich=
/edit edit...ahh you know the thread....you were talkin about orgies!
NERF ORGIES!
I'm never invited to any! So they are ov3rpowered!
This could also introduce the whole grey criminal flag pretty much the same way it is now....only expanded to champ spawns......if they could figure out who the original party members were and have been working up the spawn. Greys could still come do raids as intended, but if you can defend your "temporary battleground...territory" then so be it. Should'nt be penalized for it.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Seriously Guard zones should not be a place for all blues to hide if they are the agressor. This is what it is really about right?
[/ QUOTE ]
This isn't the whole of the issue. But it is a part of it.
A long time ago there were three zones: guard zones, just outside the guard zone and way outside the guard zone. Players could feel safe inside a guard zone because one spoken command would dispatch criminals and murderers. But then what about the area outside? So slowly and surely players would run outside to explore. If an evil player was seen they would run back inside and spam guards. Perhaps they would try and attack them, with confidence because the guards were close by.
This can not happen today because the murderers are standing right inside the guard zone or can chase anyone who attacks them. There is no chance for a new player to get better at PVP at all because every attack means instant death. And it is especially fun when the murderer kills the newly resurrected player because they are still flagged. The whole system now is tilted in favor of murderers, which is only encouraging more to be created.
Everyone has a choice as to where they can fight. If you choose to play a murderer and fight next to the guard zone, then it is your fault if you get guard killed for stepping inside.
Seriously Guard zones should not be a place for all blues to hide if they are the agressor. This is what it is really about right?
[/ QUOTE ]
This isn't the whole of the issue. But it is a part of it.
A long time ago there were three zones: guard zones, just outside the guard zone and way outside the guard zone. Players could feel safe inside a guard zone because one spoken command would dispatch criminals and murderers. But then what about the area outside? So slowly and surely players would run outside to explore. If an evil player was seen they would run back inside and spam guards. Perhaps they would try and attack them, with confidence because the guards were close by.
This can not happen today because the murderers are standing right inside the guard zone or can chase anyone who attacks them. There is no chance for a new player to get better at PVP at all because every attack means instant death. And it is especially fun when the murderer kills the newly resurrected player because they are still flagged. The whole system now is tilted in favor of murderers, which is only encouraging more to be created.
Everyone has a choice as to where they can fight. If you choose to play a murderer and fight next to the guard zone, then it is your fault if you get guard killed for stepping inside.
<blockquote><hr>
If an evil player was seen they would run back inside and spam guards. Perhaps they would try and attack them, with confidence because the guards were close by.
This can not happen today because the murderers are standing right inside the guard zone or can chase anyone who attacks them. There is no chance for a new player to get better at PVP at all because every attack means instant death.
[/ QUOTE ]
Am I reading this wrong or are you're saying bluebies should be allowed to attack reds then run back to guards and get the reds guardwacked if they try to kill their agressor and this is the way to encourage people to pvp? Cuz if that is what you're saying, I hope that's a (bad) joke.
Reds aren't some random critters that you can train your pvp skills on. There should ALWAYS be consequences to your CHOICES. Nobody forces a bluebie to attack a red/grey. If you do, then you need to acknowledge the possible consequence of them killing you while defending themselves. There is nothing lamer than a blue trying to get a kill shot on a red already getting ganked and the minute the tables are turned the same blue runs like there's no tomorrow to some guardzone, hoping the guards will finish their dirty work for them.
You can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You can't stand the thought of losing a fight you know you probably can't win, dont initiate the darn fight and you'll be just fine. There is an area where it's safe outside towns, it's called Trammel.
You want to come up with safer venues for newbie PvPers to train, i'm all for it, you want to revive the arena type fighting that used to take place in Jhelom Pits in days of old, you have my support there again. But you want to Trammelize Fel overland, I say oh hell no!
I will give you one thing though and that's the whole flagging system needs a proper review and overhaul. It is heavily abused and much too often by blues. The blue healers in guard zone need to go.
If an evil player was seen they would run back inside and spam guards. Perhaps they would try and attack them, with confidence because the guards were close by.
This can not happen today because the murderers are standing right inside the guard zone or can chase anyone who attacks them. There is no chance for a new player to get better at PVP at all because every attack means instant death.
[/ QUOTE ]
Am I reading this wrong or are you're saying bluebies should be allowed to attack reds then run back to guards and get the reds guardwacked if they try to kill their agressor and this is the way to encourage people to pvp? Cuz if that is what you're saying, I hope that's a (bad) joke.
Reds aren't some random critters that you can train your pvp skills on. There should ALWAYS be consequences to your CHOICES. Nobody forces a bluebie to attack a red/grey. If you do, then you need to acknowledge the possible consequence of them killing you while defending themselves. There is nothing lamer than a blue trying to get a kill shot on a red already getting ganked and the minute the tables are turned the same blue runs like there's no tomorrow to some guardzone, hoping the guards will finish their dirty work for them.
You can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You can't stand the thought of losing a fight you know you probably can't win, dont initiate the darn fight and you'll be just fine. There is an area where it's safe outside towns, it's called Trammel.
You want to come up with safer venues for newbie PvPers to train, i'm all for it, you want to revive the arena type fighting that used to take place in Jhelom Pits in days of old, you have my support there again. But you want to Trammelize Fel overland, I say oh hell no!
I will give you one thing though and that's the whole flagging system needs a proper review and overhaul. It is heavily abused and much too often by blues. The blue healers in guard zone need to go.
G
Guest
Guest
It isn't any surprise that the number of new players taking up PVP has considerably fallen when the current way of thinking is "stay in Trammel if you don't PVP". Guard zones are supposed to be a stepping stone into Felucca, take those away and Felucca will end up being dead as everyone claims. It is ironic that the last spot with consistently active PVP takes place at a gurd zone which murderers constantly request to be removed, therefore killing another PVP location.
Players should be encouraged to move away from guard zones, not sent back to Trammel by removing them.
Players should be encouraged to move away from guard zones, not sent back to Trammel by removing them.
I
imported_revenant2
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Aye, it sounds like your main issue is with the whole notoriety system in general in today's UO. Valid points. I believe it was revenent2 who had a thread on this same issue about a week ago. Too lazy to find it for ya though....
He had some good ideas I thought on a whole revamp of how notoriety would work in chamspawns.
I do still think that there should be at least some controlled areas of Fel, that would be "safer" than being outside of town. I mean ...its a town. Most the games I've played over the years (not to mention movies) guards have always harrassed known villians when they show their face in town.
Again though, tis true, there's no way for a guard to tell how someone went red. That kind of screws up the whole roleplay effect as well.
Ah well, we deal with what weve got. I have a char I want to start champing on (or trying at least lol) but I really dont want her going red. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet if I want "free" scrolls and make a dedicated character for doing it. I would think the hardcore pvp'ers would have already munched on the bullet though and have several reds for doing so.
Time will tell. They at least have mentioned factions are being looked at. See ya in the year 2029!
[/ QUOTE ]
Here ya go =p
"Notoriety system does not work as intended any more"
http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=7664350&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
There's a poll I'm dying to set up regarding some statistical things brought up in this post, but I can't seem to become a "Stratics Plus" member. The membership links are all 404. ARG IT SUCKS.
Aye, it sounds like your main issue is with the whole notoriety system in general in today's UO. Valid points. I believe it was revenent2 who had a thread on this same issue about a week ago. Too lazy to find it for ya though
....He had some good ideas I thought on a whole revamp of how notoriety would work in chamspawns.
I do still think that there should be at least some controlled areas of Fel, that would be "safer" than being outside of town. I mean ...its a town. Most the games I've played over the years (not to mention movies) guards have always harrassed known villians when they show their face in town.
Again though, tis true, there's no way for a guard to tell how someone went red. That kind of screws up the whole roleplay effect as well.
Ah well, we deal with what weve got. I have a char I want to start champing on (or trying at least lol) but I really dont want her going red. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet if I want "free" scrolls and make a dedicated character for doing it. I would think the hardcore pvp'ers would have already munched on the bullet though and have several reds for doing so.
Time will tell. They at least have mentioned factions are being looked at. See ya in the year 2029!
[/ QUOTE ]
Here ya go =p
"Notoriety system does not work as intended any more"
http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=7664350&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
There's a poll I'm dying to set up regarding some statistical things brought up in this post, but I can't seem to become a "Stratics Plus" member. The membership links are all 404. ARG IT SUCKS.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Do you tell Dreadhorn to go easy on players who try to kill it cuz they need to learn or need some ingredients? Heck no! Players step into a dangerous zone acknowledging they will likely die until they get better at it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dreadhorn, as every other Peerless, is located at the end of a dungeon. The guard zone is the starting point for almost every player visiting Felucca. If murderers want to hang around guard zones then they should be prepared for the consequences you talk about so much. You don't just step inside Despise and expect to face the Harrower at the door, there is a progression of difficulty.
Do you tell Dreadhorn to go easy on players who try to kill it cuz they need to learn or need some ingredients? Heck no! Players step into a dangerous zone acknowledging they will likely die until they get better at it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dreadhorn, as every other Peerless, is located at the end of a dungeon. The guard zone is the starting point for almost every player visiting Felucca. If murderers want to hang around guard zones then they should be prepared for the consequences you talk about so much. You don't just step inside Despise and expect to face the Harrower at the door, there is a progression of difficulty.
G
Guest
Guest
Stay in trammel.
The peerless may be at the end of the dungeon but you dont enter the area expecting you will miraculously become l337 in the hour you will spend gathering keys. You spend time in lesser dungeons improving your PvM skills until you are ready to face the big boys.
PvP should be the same. You dont just show up expecting things handed to you on a silver platter. I do not disagree that there should be more venues to help newbie PvPers learn the ropes just like you have Shame and Despise for newbie PvMers. But it should not be done at the expense of reds. Felucca is their ONLY land. It makes absolutely no sense to push reds into ghettos and turning them into sitting ducks to be farmed just so that bluebies can thrive.
When Champ Spawns were first introduced, blues came in mass numbers to Fel because of the safe insta-teleport to healers with all their gear. I should know, I was one of them. And guess what? Even after that was removed, I stayed in Fel cuz it had given me the leg up I needed to learn the ropes. I do not have a problem with something similar (not the Spawns!) being reintroduced where bluebies can take part in some rewarding activity that will also expose them to PvP and where they will be safely be taken back to town should they lose the fight. But increasing guard zones and the lame guard zone hugging battles, I will fight tooth and nail.
PvP should be the same. You dont just show up expecting things handed to you on a silver platter. I do not disagree that there should be more venues to help newbie PvPers learn the ropes just like you have Shame and Despise for newbie PvMers. But it should not be done at the expense of reds. Felucca is their ONLY land. It makes absolutely no sense to push reds into ghettos and turning them into sitting ducks to be farmed just so that bluebies can thrive.
When Champ Spawns were first introduced, blues came in mass numbers to Fel because of the safe insta-teleport to healers with all their gear. I should know, I was one of them. And guess what? Even after that was removed, I stayed in Fel cuz it had given me the leg up I needed to learn the ropes. I do not have a problem with something similar (not the Spawns!) being reintroduced where bluebies can take part in some rewarding activity that will also expose them to PvP and where they will be safely be taken back to town should they lose the fight. But increasing guard zones and the lame guard zone hugging battles, I will fight tooth and nail.
<blockquote><hr>
It is ironic the same protection you praise that got you into Felucca will now be fought "tooth and nail" to prevent.
[/ QUOTE ]
You might want to reread what I said. I have np bringing back some sort of such activity to provide some form of safe PvP training to bluebies, but not by pushing reds out of towns. The safe teleport from champ spawns didn't allow bluebies to get reds guard wacked the minute they were about to lose a fight. THAT is specifically what you are proposing. Increasing gz so that everytime bluebies are about to die they can just run for cover. To this I say no. I got spanked more times than I can count in the early days of champ spawns. I didn't get the reds guard wacked. I fought, died, got rezzed, went back in.
That in no way limited the movements or reds nor confined them in outer regions of their own land. You are proposing to push reds out of towns again. To increase the area they can get insta-killed by guards even when the blues are the agressors. That's absurd.
It is ironic the same protection you praise that got you into Felucca will now be fought "tooth and nail" to prevent.
[/ QUOTE ]
You might want to reread what I said. I have np bringing back some sort of such activity to provide some form of safe PvP training to bluebies, but not by pushing reds out of towns. The safe teleport from champ spawns didn't allow bluebies to get reds guard wacked the minute they were about to lose a fight. THAT is specifically what you are proposing. Increasing gz so that everytime bluebies are about to die they can just run for cover. To this I say no. I got spanked more times than I can count in the early days of champ spawns. I didn't get the reds guard wacked. I fought, died, got rezzed, went back in.
That in no way limited the movements or reds nor confined them in outer regions of their own land. You are proposing to push reds out of towns again. To increase the area they can get insta-killed by guards even when the blues are the agressors. That's absurd.
G
Guest
Guest
I didn't post about any guard zone increases, just restoring them to their original working order. I also said that some guard zones, such as the ones around a few T2A entrances, should be removed.
So far the only defense posted has been that murderers should have a right to chase after blues who attack them. Yet, reds are allowed to run inside houses when they are going to lose. If murderers are allowed into guard zones to chase after attackers, the only fair thing to do is let blues enter houses fleeing reds run into.
So far the only defense posted has been that murderers should have a right to chase after blues who attack them. Yet, reds are allowed to run inside houses when they are going to lose. If murderers are allowed into guard zones to chase after attackers, the only fair thing to do is let blues enter houses fleeing reds run into.
<blockquote><hr>
I didn't post about any guard zone increases, just restoring them to their original working order. I also said that some guard zones, such as the ones around a few T2A entrances, should be removed.
So far the only defense posted has been that murderers should have a right to chase after blues who attack them. Yet, reds are allowed to run inside houses when they are going to lose. If murderers are allowed into guard zones to chase after attackers, the only fair thing to do is let blues enter houses fleeing reds run into.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why shouldn't reds have the right to defend themselves when attacked? Where is the common sense in telling someone I can attack you but you have to lie down and take it and like it just cuz I'm blue and you're not? The only thing you've advocated so far is the right to attack others without consequences to yourself. You can't just go out, stir trouble, then demand to be protected once you realize you bit more than you can chew.
Reds CAN NOT enter their houses if they're about to lose if they initiated the fight. If you're the agressor, you're flagged and can't enter your house. So this is essentially the very same that blues currently benefit from: they get attacked, they can just run back to GZ for protection; they start the fight, they need to deal with the outcome. Difference is, the red doesn't have the one-hit kill NPC buddy to get rid of the bluebies that are harassing him. He can still get killed inside his house with poison fields and nature's fury.
The fact that reds can go inside towns in no way limits the freedom and rights of bluebies. What you are saying has nothing to do with promoting PvP, only absolving blues of the consequences of their choices. You do not want to get killed in guard zone then do not initiate the fight.
Again, I'm all for finding new ways to entice blues into Fel and into PvP, but not by cleaning up their mess for them, not by teaching them that it's ok not to take responsability for their choices and certainly not by nerfing the rights of reds.
I didn't post about any guard zone increases, just restoring them to their original working order. I also said that some guard zones, such as the ones around a few T2A entrances, should be removed.
So far the only defense posted has been that murderers should have a right to chase after blues who attack them. Yet, reds are allowed to run inside houses when they are going to lose. If murderers are allowed into guard zones to chase after attackers, the only fair thing to do is let blues enter houses fleeing reds run into.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why shouldn't reds have the right to defend themselves when attacked? Where is the common sense in telling someone I can attack you but you have to lie down and take it and like it just cuz I'm blue and you're not? The only thing you've advocated so far is the right to attack others without consequences to yourself. You can't just go out, stir trouble, then demand to be protected once you realize you bit more than you can chew.
Reds CAN NOT enter their houses if they're about to lose if they initiated the fight. If you're the agressor, you're flagged and can't enter your house. So this is essentially the very same that blues currently benefit from: they get attacked, they can just run back to GZ for protection; they start the fight, they need to deal with the outcome. Difference is, the red doesn't have the one-hit kill NPC buddy to get rid of the bluebies that are harassing him. He can still get killed inside his house with poison fields and nature's fury.
The fact that reds can go inside towns in no way limits the freedom and rights of bluebies. What you are saying has nothing to do with promoting PvP, only absolving blues of the consequences of their choices. You do not want to get killed in guard zone then do not initiate the fight.
Again, I'm all for finding new ways to entice blues into Fel and into PvP, but not by cleaning up their mess for them, not by teaching them that it's ok not to take responsability for their choices and certainly not by nerfing the rights of reds.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
You do not want to get killed in guard zone then do not initiate the fight.
[/ QUOTE ]
I got that red running into house part mixed up but your talking about PVP like it only takes place on the edge of a guard zone. The whole idea is to move PVP away from guard zones, not encourage it to be there as the current system does.
You do not want to get killed in guard zone then do not initiate the fight.
[/ QUOTE ]
I got that red running into house part mixed up but your talking about PVP like it only takes place on the edge of a guard zone. The whole idea is to move PVP away from guard zones, not encourage it to be there as the current system does.
G
Guest
Guest
Aye, eliminate all gz's in fel.
The main reason a lot of GZ fighting is still occurring is because the whole flagging system needs to be reviewed. There would be much less of it happening if blue healers were nerfed. What makes GZ fighting enticing is the fact that a single blue can go stir trouble then run back to his buddies who sit in GZ healing him to no end and the red being able to do nothing about it. If the blue healer became agressor to the red whose target he's healing, a lot more blues would start thinking about it twice before trying to abuse that system.
That said, GZ should be removed altogether everywhere else, especially around moongates to get rid of the Yew Gate GZ lameness (among others). Upon arriving at a moongate, a blue could benefit from a 15 second invulnerability so he can recall/gate out. But that invulnerability should be automatically lifted at the first agressive act on another player.
GZ is NOT the way to promote PvP for bluebies.
That said, GZ should be removed altogether everywhere else, especially around moongates to get rid of the Yew Gate GZ lameness (among others). Upon arriving at a moongate, a blue could benefit from a 15 second invulnerability so he can recall/gate out. But that invulnerability should be automatically lifted at the first agressive act on another player.
GZ is NOT the way to promote PvP for bluebies.
I
imported_Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
The whole idea is to move PVP away from guard zones, not encourage it to be there as the current system does.
[/ QUOTE ]
If thats your idea it hasn't been clear from the origional post or subject line.
A revert would in no way encourage moving it away from guard zones as blues would still use them to be safe in as they do now. On top of that as I already said it would make raiding T2A nothing but hassle.
If moving PvP away from guard zones is the purpose the only way to do that is to remove all guard zones in fel.
The whole idea is to move PVP away from guard zones, not encourage it to be there as the current system does.
[/ QUOTE ]
If thats your idea it hasn't been clear from the origional post or subject line.
A revert would in no way encourage moving it away from guard zones as blues would still use them to be safe in as they do now. On top of that as I already said it would make raiding T2A nothing but hassle.
If moving PvP away from guard zones is the purpose the only way to do that is to remove all guard zones in fel.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
That said, GZ should be removed altogether everywhere else, especially around moongates to get rid of the Yew Gate GZ lameness (among others). Upon arriving at a moongate, a blue could benefit from a 15 second invulnerability so he can recall/gate out.
[/ QUOTE ]
How does removing all guard zones in any way promote people come to Felucca? You only came to Felucca after all of T2A and every dungeon made it so you couldn't lose any items. Plus you had full protection of guard zones, meaning murderers could not enter.
Now you say remove them all and give people visiting Felucca 15 seconds before they are up against countless murderers who's biggest desire is to kill them and won't hesitate to rez kill over and over.
<blockquote><hr>
GZ is NOT the way to promote PvP for bluebies.
[/ QUOTE ]
So we agree that this type of PVP should not take place in or near guard zones. Making murderers killed by guards again will move them further away.
Since you have never visited Felucca before Publish 16 you can't possibly understand how it worked before all these changes came about. Since Age of Shadows the fighting has moved closer and closer to the guard zone. Clearly changes made shortly prior and during AOS encouraged PVP to move there.
That said, GZ should be removed altogether everywhere else, especially around moongates to get rid of the Yew Gate GZ lameness (among others). Upon arriving at a moongate, a blue could benefit from a 15 second invulnerability so he can recall/gate out.
[/ QUOTE ]
How does removing all guard zones in any way promote people come to Felucca? You only came to Felucca after all of T2A and every dungeon made it so you couldn't lose any items. Plus you had full protection of guard zones, meaning murderers could not enter.
Now you say remove them all and give people visiting Felucca 15 seconds before they are up against countless murderers who's biggest desire is to kill them and won't hesitate to rez kill over and over.
<blockquote><hr>
GZ is NOT the way to promote PvP for bluebies.
[/ QUOTE ]
So we agree that this type of PVP should not take place in or near guard zones. Making murderers killed by guards again will move them further away.
Since you have never visited Felucca before Publish 16 you can't possibly understand how it worked before all these changes came about. Since Age of Shadows the fighting has moved closer and closer to the guard zone. Clearly changes made shortly prior and during AOS encouraged PVP to move there.
<blockquote><hr>
How does removing all guard zones in any way promote people come to Felucca? You only came to Felucca after all of T2A and every dungeon made it so you couldn't lose any items. Plus you had full protection of guard zones, meaning murderers could not enter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, I used to go to Khaldun regularly and even had a shop right outside moonglow long before the Champ Spawns were introduced. But I only started actively LIVING in Fel after the champs. I would never venture away from those 2 places and towns and avoided PvP up until I got to do more of it through the "protected" champ spawns. Thus the reason I say introducing some sort of other insta-teleport to healer kinda thing to entice more bluebies to Fel would not be a bad idea because I can vouch as to how it benefitted me and many others. That had NOTHING to do with whether or not reds could enter towns.
<blockquote><hr>
Now you say remove them all and give people visiting Felucca 15 seconds before they are up against countless murderers who's biggest desire is to kill them and won't hesitate to rez kill over and over.
[/ QUOTE ]You cannot be rez-killed ad nauseam unless you allow yourself to be. Felucca isn't Trammel. You cannot force consensual PvP everywhere. If they want 100% safe, they can go to towns and not start attacking people. The rest of Fel overland should be fair game.
<blockquote><hr>
So we agree that this type of PVP should not take place in or near guard zones. Making murderers killed by guards again will move them further away.
[/ QUOTE ]
We do not agree. This type of PvP should not be PROMOTED by allowing blues to abuse a system meant to prevent reds from randomly attacking them everywhere. Punishing reds cuz blues want to have their cake and eat it too is a flat out no.
<blockquote><hr>
Since you have never visited Felucca before Publish 16 you can't possibly understand how it worked before all these changes came about. Since Age of Shadows the fighting has moved closer and closer to the guard zone. Clearly changes made shortly prior and during AOS encouraged PVP to move there.
[/ QUOTE ]
I DID visit Fel before Publish 16. I was BORN in Fel considering I played since Beta. I only moved to Tram once UO:R came out but that didn't stop me from venturing to Khaldun and from running my tmap library/shop outside Glow Fel long before Pub 16. The difference is, like many bluebies, I didn't like PvP because I didn't know how. When I would get spanked in Khaldun, I would just leave and come back at a different time when I was less likely to get killed. There were in fact few reds that ever bothered me in Khaldun. I had more problems with thieves than reds there. So if not for Champs, after silver weps got nerfed I would have stopped going to Fel other than for my shop since my main reason for hunting in Khaldun had been removed.
How does removing all guard zones in any way promote people come to Felucca? You only came to Felucca after all of T2A and every dungeon made it so you couldn't lose any items. Plus you had full protection of guard zones, meaning murderers could not enter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, I used to go to Khaldun regularly and even had a shop right outside moonglow long before the Champ Spawns were introduced. But I only started actively LIVING in Fel after the champs. I would never venture away from those 2 places and towns and avoided PvP up until I got to do more of it through the "protected" champ spawns. Thus the reason I say introducing some sort of other insta-teleport to healer kinda thing to entice more bluebies to Fel would not be a bad idea because I can vouch as to how it benefitted me and many others. That had NOTHING to do with whether or not reds could enter towns.
<blockquote><hr>
Now you say remove them all and give people visiting Felucca 15 seconds before they are up against countless murderers who's biggest desire is to kill them and won't hesitate to rez kill over and over.
[/ QUOTE ]You cannot be rez-killed ad nauseam unless you allow yourself to be. Felucca isn't Trammel. You cannot force consensual PvP everywhere. If they want 100% safe, they can go to towns and not start attacking people. The rest of Fel overland should be fair game.
<blockquote><hr>
So we agree that this type of PVP should not take place in or near guard zones. Making murderers killed by guards again will move them further away.
[/ QUOTE ]
We do not agree. This type of PvP should not be PROMOTED by allowing blues to abuse a system meant to prevent reds from randomly attacking them everywhere. Punishing reds cuz blues want to have their cake and eat it too is a flat out no.
<blockquote><hr>
Since you have never visited Felucca before Publish 16 you can't possibly understand how it worked before all these changes came about. Since Age of Shadows the fighting has moved closer and closer to the guard zone. Clearly changes made shortly prior and during AOS encouraged PVP to move there.
[/ QUOTE ]
I DID visit Fel before Publish 16. I was BORN in Fel considering I played since Beta. I only moved to Tram once UO:R came out but that didn't stop me from venturing to Khaldun and from running my tmap library/shop outside Glow Fel long before Pub 16. The difference is, like many bluebies, I didn't like PvP because I didn't know how. When I would get spanked in Khaldun, I would just leave and come back at a different time when I was less likely to get killed. There were in fact few reds that ever bothered me in Khaldun. I had more problems with thieves than reds there. So if not for Champs, after silver weps got nerfed I would have stopped going to Fel other than for my shop since my main reason for hunting in Khaldun had been removed.
I
imported_Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
How does removing all guard zones in any way promote people come to Felucca?
[/ QUOTE ]
So you want to move PvP away from guard zones while keeping them a viable running away option for blues? Your an idiot.
<blockquote><hr>
You only came to Felucca after all of T2A and every dungeon made it so you couldn't lose any items. Plus you had full protection of guard zones, meaning murderers could not enter.
Now you say remove them all and give people visiting Felucca 15 seconds before they are up against countless murderers who's biggest desire is to kill them and won't hesitate to rez kill over and over.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why don't you throw out some other generalizations while your at it.
<blockquote><hr>
Making murderers killed by guards again will move them further away.
[/ QUOTE ]
No it won't, it just means that trival non PvP things like going to the bank and entering T2A become a hassle for reds. The blues will all still sit in the guard zones.
<blockquote><hr>
Since you have never visited Felucca before Publish 16 you can't possibly understand how it worked before all these changes came about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, knew the moronic generalizations weren't far off.
<blockquote><hr>
Since Age of Shadows the fighting has moved closer and closer to the guard zone. Clearly changes made shortly prior and during AOS encouraged PVP to move there.
[/ QUOTE ]
No it hasn't. The only thing thats clear is that you have little to no understanding of how UO works.
How does removing all guard zones in any way promote people come to Felucca?
[/ QUOTE ]
So you want to move PvP away from guard zones while keeping them a viable running away option for blues? Your an idiot.
<blockquote><hr>
You only came to Felucca after all of T2A and every dungeon made it so you couldn't lose any items. Plus you had full protection of guard zones, meaning murderers could not enter.
Now you say remove them all and give people visiting Felucca 15 seconds before they are up against countless murderers who's biggest desire is to kill them and won't hesitate to rez kill over and over.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why don't you throw out some other generalizations while your at it.
<blockquote><hr>
Making murderers killed by guards again will move them further away.
[/ QUOTE ]
No it won't, it just means that trival non PvP things like going to the bank and entering T2A become a hassle for reds. The blues will all still sit in the guard zones.
<blockquote><hr>
Since you have never visited Felucca before Publish 16 you can't possibly understand how it worked before all these changes came about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, knew the moronic generalizations weren't far off.
<blockquote><hr>
Since Age of Shadows the fighting has moved closer and closer to the guard zone. Clearly changes made shortly prior and during AOS encouraged PVP to move there.
[/ QUOTE ]
No it hasn't. The only thing thats clear is that you have little to no understanding of how UO works.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
Since you have never visited Felucca before Publish 16 you can't possibly understand how it worked before all these changes came about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, knew the moronic generalizations weren't far off.
[/ QUOTE ]
She posted with her own words that she didn't PVP until after Publish 16, when the rules all changed. Prior to Publish 16 there was a healthy amount of PVP all over the place. I recall Trinsic, Britain and Moonglow moongates all being active. Bucaneer's Den, many dungeons, the east Britain crossroads, etc. That is now all gone. The only place left on Atlantic is Yew Moongate.
So you can say again and again you want the guard zones removed and that it will somehow make PVP better. It won't because murderers have benefited from many changes and blues have been slowly pushed out of Felucca over the past 5 years. The change to let murderers into guard zones was suppose to make PVP better but that obviously did not happen. When your strategy does not work it is better to change it instead of staying the course. Giving more power to murderers is more of the same.
<blockquote><hr>
Since you have never visited Felucca before Publish 16 you can't possibly understand how it worked before all these changes came about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, knew the moronic generalizations weren't far off.
[/ QUOTE ]
She posted with her own words that she didn't PVP until after Publish 16, when the rules all changed. Prior to Publish 16 there was a healthy amount of PVP all over the place. I recall Trinsic, Britain and Moonglow moongates all being active. Bucaneer's Den, many dungeons, the east Britain crossroads, etc. That is now all gone. The only place left on Atlantic is Yew Moongate.
So you can say again and again you want the guard zones removed and that it will somehow make PVP better. It won't because murderers have benefited from many changes and blues have been slowly pushed out of Felucca over the past 5 years. The change to let murderers into guard zones was suppose to make PVP better but that obviously did not happen. When your strategy does not work it is better to change it instead of staying the course. Giving more power to murderers is more of the same.