The Change to Allow Murderers in Guard Zones Should be Reverted

[Guest]

Since Publish 24 on April 29, 2004 murderers have been allowed to enter guard zones as any blue can in Felucca rulesets. I do not recall exactly why this change was made but I believe it has something to do with trying to encourage players to participate in Factions once again because many active PVP players now played on murderers.

However the change has had many adverse affects, principle among them being why the heck are murderers being allowed into guard zones. It causes much confusion trying to explain that someone is a player killer yet the guards will do nothing in town unless they start attacking you. Another major issue is when several murderers will gather together and suicide with a barrage of attacks against an innocent who has no chance of survival. If blue players do this at least you can give them murder counts, but there is no possible retaliation against an already know murderer.

The logic behind allowing murderers back into towns is fundamentally flawed. Why can a red employ the services of a stablemaster, yet he is not allowed to purchase items from a provisioner? It is quite clear that services inside of a guard zone were never meant to be accessible. It would have made more sense to not allow murderers to bank or use stable masters in guard zones. Also why would murderers be allowed to enter towns on non-Siege shards only? This was clearly a change made for some balance reason, as was the heading it is under in the change list!

Allowing murderers into guard zones has also had the side effect of killing the once well used town of Buccaneer's Den. It added an increased element of risk and danger to players who dabbled in the wrong side of the law. But now that instead of 1 bank there a dozen, that risk has been reduced to 0.

As I mentioned I think this change was made primarily for Faction reasons. The solution is quite simple: build a back entrance to Lord British's Castle in Felucca only and leave a large enough section in front of Council of Mages base unguarded. Further some guard zones should be removed from T2A passages where they don't make sense such as the one North of Minoc and that strange island teleporter.

I think overall PVP would improve if guard zones stopped becoming the play ground they have now for murderers to play in. Buccaneer's Den would once again become a hot spot for PVP as it did years ago, well away from guard zones for blues to hide in.

 

[Guest]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh

 

[Guest]

That is an accurate summary of what murderers have been saying since they have forgotten that guard zones used to be off limits.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Yep ... need to remove the guard zones around moongates ... shrink the ones in towns down a bit too ...

The "reds" ARE winning back the territory ... less safe to be in fel ...
Just as well acknowlege that "player justice" has failed ...
Much like "saving Magincia" ... in FEL, lawlessness is winning

OH! wait! you want MORE guardzones/protection?

Why?
Cause your loosing MORE in FEL?

LoL

Earn it .... like the Reds did ...
OH! wait! you ARE ... via board requests

Easier, less risk of insurance monies ....

NOW I get it ....

 

[SixUnder]

why should they be off limits when blues have 4 facets plus felluca to go too. dont get on us being able to get into gz when you have that many places to play.

 

[Guest]

If they decide to completely remove some or all guard zones in Felucca that is fine. But murderers should not be allowed into any guarded zone.

 

[Duke X. Winter]

It can be explained. The guards don't attack reds because in an RP sense, they don't always notice them. They only attack when a red is an aggressor, because it's only then that they take note of what the red is doing.

 

[Guest]

But that wouldn't explain when a guard is present and telling a murderer to watch their step.

 

[Duke X. Winter]

Maybe he has a feeling about the guy? Maybe the Council requires evidence?

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

But that wouldn't explain when a guard is present and telling a murderer to watch their step.

[/ QUOTE ]
So? the guard warns them to "watch their step"

and they do
(thats called compliance)

reds are very careful about how, when, and who they attack ...
one mis-step and
*WHACK*
they get "corrected"

huh?

Just not as much as before

 

[WarUltima]

1. Reds in Town
2. Reds Stat-Loss

Get 1 of the above is easy mode, get them both is carebear.
I still have reds, but my reds used to be feared and leet and I had the MOST thrill playing my murder chars due to skill loss, and I was once a "feared, proud and honorable murder" because back in the days when playing a murder werent in carebear mode things were much more interesting. I cant forget how many lifes of innocent blues I've taken and how many times I've retrained my murder when my 7xGM suddenly became 7x70 and the 220k bounty (220k was HUGE btw) on my head was claimed by whole bounch of "innocent" blues that finally decided to work together to bring me down to my end and chopped my head off and handed it to the local guard at moonglow as I watched as a ghost.

Anways, reds nowdays are nothing but a "more convineant" PvP class with many "advantages" over blues as a serious pvper other than small disadvantage of "watchout for attacking blues in the guardzone". And I am not ******** like many reds nowdays. If you "know the limits" and have experienced back when reds were truly "hardcore" you shouldnt make any ******** mistakes like getting guardwacked.

 

[BadManiac]

This is something I've always wondered too. Being red in UO should SUCK, being red should be hard, and should come with all the drawbacks and no incentives, that's what being red is.
Red's only allowed in Bucc's Den, Red's only allowed to res at the chaos shrine, guards insta whacking anything even remotely criminal in a guardzone. Felucca isn't exclusively for red, whatever they think. It's because of changes like this that Feluca is dead, and that every PK there is has been going "WAAAAAAH I've got noone to kill" for years.

Get rid of Fel from all production shards, open a single new Fel only shard with a normal ruleset, and give everyone a limited time one way char transfer to that new shard, Siege or Mugen. Then give the Fel players their own part of the dev team and QA, maybe then we can have balance. As it currently stands expecting UO to be a PvP game is nonsense, how can they balance weapons and defense skills to work both for a 100HP player and a 100000HP peerless?

 

[Redxpanda]

Let them go wherever they want and bring back stat loss.

 

[imported_revenant2]

<blockquote><hr>

Since Publish 24 on April 29, 2004 murderers have been allowed to enter guard zones as any blue can in Felucca rulesets. I do not recall exactly why this change was made but I believe it has something to do with trying to encourage players to participate in Factions once again because many active PVP players now played on murderers.

However the change has had many adverse affects, principle among them being why the heck are murderers being allowed into guard zones. It causes much confusion trying to explain that someone is a player killer yet the guards will do nothing in town unless they start attacking you. Another major issue is when several murderers will gather together and suicide with a barrage of attacks against an innocent who has no chance of survival. If blue players do this at least you can give them murder counts, but there is no possible retaliation against an already know murderer.

The logic behind allowing murderers back into towns is fundamentally flawed. Why can a red employ the services of a stablemaster, yet he is not allowed to purchase items from a provisioner? It is quite clear that services inside of a guard zone were never meant to be accessible. It would have made more sense to not allow murderers to bank or use stable masters in guard zones. Also why would murderers be allowed to enter towns on non-Siege shards only? This was clearly a change made for some balance reason, as was the heading it is under in the change list!

[/ QUOTE ]

This perspective is fundamentally flawed in perspective of the current state of UO. The biggest PVP environment isn't reds running around pouncing on innocent blues any more. The two largest PVP venues today are that it happens in association with Felucca champ spawns and in the vicinity of Yew Gate (which for all practical purposes is consentual PVP).

Today, some chars go red with the players not wanting them to even be red (discussed in:
http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=1&amp;Number=7664350&amp;page=4&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=31&amp;fpart=1)

As it stands now, "Red" is not just for evil, nasty PKs any more. It's the status of someone who may PK, and/or work champ spawns regularly, and/or someone who PVPs quite a bit and doesn't take the effort to stay blue.

In fact, it's not particularly intelligent that in the modern scene, UO is functionally punishing it's PVPers in-game. A friend who appears to be leaving UO for WoW made a comment to me along these lines: "In UO you get 'Red' for PVP, but in WoW, you get cool titles". That's an interesting distinction.

<blockquote><hr>

Allowing murderers into guard zones has also had the side effect of killing the once well used town of Buccaneer's Den. It added an increased element of risk and danger to players who dabbled in the wrong side of the law. But now that instead of 1 bank there a dozen, that risk has been reduced to 0.

As I mentioned I think this change was made primarily for Faction reasons. The solution is quite simple: build a back entrance to Lord British's Castle in Felucca only and leave a large enough section in front of Council of Mages base unguarded. Further some guard zones should be removed from T2A passages where they don't make sense such as the one North of Minoc and that strange island teleporter.

I think overall PVP would improve if guard zones stopped becoming the play ground they have now for murderers to play in. Buccaneer's Den would once again become a hot spot for PVP as it did years ago, well away from guard zones for blues to hide in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Back then, Buc's den was the only place that reds could use the bank, and this made it develop into a PVP site. Unless you count that people will not be able to pounce on reds who are simply trying to access the bank, there is no new situation in Bucs Den that prevents people from returning there today and using it for PVP. IMO it does not represent a degradation that Bucs Den used to be a hot bed for unstructured PVP and now that's migrated to Yew Gate.

Buc's den also has a server line running down the middle of it. I don't personally know anyone who likes fighting on a server line. That whole thing would have been much better if the worldfile had been edited and Bucs Den had been moved off of that server line.

The splotches of guard zone that are not associated with moongates are sometimes used by PVP-impaired blues in a way that is unfair to reds, and I don't like it. It happens mainly on the Felucca side, where people have housing. It's not really on the T2a side where there's often enough distance between the champ spawn zones and the guard zone to catch harrassing blues before they make it there.

On my own shard, with the way modern UO works today. I would remove the Felucca side of these guard zones while leaving the T2a ones there, with the exception of Temple Island which would keep it's guard zone.

I suspect that this was not the right choice when T2a first came out and then when champ spawns were first introduced, but it is now.

-----------------------------

If no changes were to be made to how easy it is to become red (like the ones suggested in:

http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=1&amp;Number=7664350&amp;page=4&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=31&amp;fpart=1)

you might not like the world type changes I would suggest. As opposed with making things harder for reds as you describe, I'd want to see them made easier, with red healers in Fel as plentiful as the blue ones and other similar adjustments.

It would be interesting to make a town that truly worked as The Reds Town. I'm not the first person on this forum to talk about such a thing. This would be a town where NPCs would sell to reds at normal prices and the guards would behave in reverse - the blues would be guardkillable for attacking reds, reds could attack blues without guard interference, and I would experiment with reds being unable to attack one another without being guard killed and see what the reds liked and didn't like about it a few months down the road. If I had a shard where the reds were as plentiful as they are on my home (production) shard, I would just do it, and I'd pick Bucs Den to be The Red Town.

Making The Red Town would be done a bit like the Greater Dragons were - just do it and watch the players enjoy it, as opposed with giving them the opportunity to agonize over whether or not it will be too much, and so on.

It's not necessary to make such a thing but in the absence of dealing with the oddities that exist today, it would represent an enhancement to have such a place. Reds would go to this town and be able to actually talk to one another without the gank coming 10 seconds later, which is pretty different. Trashtalking one another can of course be dealt with by a walk outside of town for the duels. If it got extremely popular, one might have to sacrifice a second island town to the reds to fit them all, who knows! Maybe Ocllo would be sacrificed, or maybe Jhelom!

heh!

 

[themaster879]

I agree with this completly. I think they should make a red town where guards are reversed. That sounds fair to me.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I agree with this completly. I think they should make a red town where guards are reversed. That sounds fair to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHA i like this idea! And BTW there are no such thing as innocent blues! Ive seen blues murder more people than any reds!You can tell them there usally afk at luna gate.

 

[Kith Kanan]

<blockquote><hr>

But that wouldn't explain when a guard is present and telling a murderer to watch their step.

[/ QUOTE ]

he might only think he is a bit shady looking , and telling them to watch there step.. right ????

 

[imported_Sarphus]

It's true that the climate of UO pvp is different than it was, but that doesn't discount anything JC is calling for.

The climate of pvp reflects the ruleset. The ruleset is lax (imo too lax) on being red, so most people who pvp a lot are red. It doesn't need to be this way and IMO, it was better when it wasn't this way.

Personally, I haven't pked regularly since they took away stat loss. What's the point? You don't get much of a rush pking people when you don't stand to lose anything signifigant. I pked back when there was stat loss AND you would get guard whacked if you got anywhere near town. It was fun.

I agree with many in this thread that there need to be harsher punishments on being red. I think 40 hours between kills is ample recovery time from murder counts, but perhaps there would need to be some form of accelerated murder count remediation should be made available as a 1 time only thing. If there isn't a way for people to burn off many murder counts when the risks associated with being red are greatly increased, that would be unfair to current reds. One way it could be set up. A red as the option to turn on accelerated murder count loss, but they can only turn this on once every year and there would be some form of amnesty cost associated with turning on accelerated murder count loss. If the player murders anyone while in accelerated loss, they are transitioned back into normal murder count loss.

On top of this, there should be enhanced punishment for healing reds. Perhaps healing someone while they're murdering would award a murder count to the accomplise as well as the murderor.

Yes, the climate has changed... for the worse. Players should have the opportunity to make decisions that positively or negatively impact their game play experience. Players should have the opportunity to make mistakes that have consequences, but the consequences should never be permanent.

There should be rewards for being red as well as penalties. Personally, I like the idea of guard zones being activated again except that it means bucks den becomes a pvp place again. Bucks den doesn't work because it has 2 server lines running right through the middle of town. Unless the server lines can be resolved, bucs den as the only guard-free town just doesn't work.

It would be kinda cool if reds could take over towns (enhanced factions system) to change the way the guards in those towns react toward reds in certain groups. Basically, every town could have killable guards (but difficult... like champ bosses maybe) that can be conquored.

I'm rambling... either way, I think there need to be more repricussions for being red than there currently are. It used to be more risky to be red than to be a pvmer. That hasn't been the case for at least 7 yrs.

 

[imported_revenant2]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I agree with this completly. I think they should make a red town where guards are reversed. That sounds fair to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHA i like this idea! And BTW there are no such thing as innocent blues! Ive seen blues murder more people than any reds!You can tell them there usally afk at luna gate.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are absolutely "Blue PKs", have had those since the beginning of UO. Be on a blue and flag criminal in front of one in Fel and see what happens to you. Some people call them "Noto killers", with Noto being short for Notoriety-based. They seem to collectively be masters of the ridiculous "Para Gank", a lame killing process which should have been nerfed into nonexistence long ago.

I don't like people who run like that, and it's hard to explain all of the reasons why. It's like the people who do it are both weak and antisocial on a level, whereas people who run like a red (in today's UO) are different and potentially better.

Besides, behind every Evil, Murdering Red are several blues who are crafting, selling and buying in Luna and Britain, and perhaps getting arties in Doom, farming Miasmas, taming Cu Sidhes, or killing Dreadhorn....

. Trying to somehow punish red characters because you want to get back at a certain kind of player is sorta goofy as things are now.

 

[imported_revenant2]

<blockquote><hr>

I agree with many in this thread that there need to be harsher punishments on being red. I think 40 hours between kills is ample recovery time from murder counts, but perhaps there would need to be some form of accelerated murder count remediation should be made available as a 1 time only thing. If there isn't a way for people to burn off many murder counts when the risks associated with being red are greatly increased, that would be unfair to current reds. One way it could be set up. A red as the option to turn on accelerated murder count loss, but they can only turn this on once every year and there would be some form of amnesty cost associated with turning on accelerated murder count loss. If the player murders anyone while in accelerated loss, they are transitioned back into normal murder count loss.

On top of this, there should be enhanced punishment for healing reds. Perhaps healing someone while they're murdering would award a murder count to the accomplise as well as the murderor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your post seems to address issues surrounding those reds who go around killing innocent blues on sight - if one can think of the older perception of this situation.

What about those of us with red chars that have never done things like this? If you don't do much champ spawning you might not even realize these chars exist. Check the thread at
http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=1&amp;Number=7664350&amp;page=4&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=31&amp;fpart=1
where we talk about some of the issues around them.

There was a time when reds were truly the evil ones who made their fortunes off of what was a combination of killing and stealing at the same time. They would kill other people and take all of their stuff. But now that doesn't exist any more, and sure you have reds who kill out of being antisocial, but you also have just this whole PVP thing for the sake of PVP.

Yew gate is pretty much 100% consentual, if you show up, it's for the danger and the fight. There's no Red standing around at Yew Gate who in some way deserves to be punished simply for being there and for killing people there, everyone is there for the same thing.

?

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

It's fine as it is.

 

[Setnaffa]

It might be a little difficult to code, but what they could do is...

1- Once a guard responds to a "Guards" request, he/she will always recognize the attacker and always kill on sight (but only if the attacker is within their line of sight) until the attacker gets their murder count down to 0. So whenever they reset the guards, reds will be able to enter guardzones until someone calls the guards because they are being attacked or robbed. After that, they can still enter the guard zones, but they'd want to avoid the guards that previously responded to the "guards" call.
2- NPC Vendors will continue to sell to them until they've commit a crime within the line of sight of the vendor.
3- The top 10 murderers on each shard (murder count since the last publish) will be recognized by all guards who will kill them within their line of sight and all NPC vendors will refuse to sell to them.

What does this do? As long as reds don't commit crimes in a guardzone, they will be left alone. The top 10 murderers (in terms of murder count) will not be able be within the line of sight of any guards in a guard zone. They will also know they are one of the top 10 killers (for bragging rights).

 

[Guest]

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[Guest]

I don't care about any subsequent changes, just that reds are removed from guard zones. If they removed every guard zone in Felucca fine. If they made a murderer only town fine. If they removed guard zones from moongates fine. But murderers should never have been allowed into guarded areas. By being red you are a known player killer and guards should dispatch you on sight.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

By being red you are a known player killer and guards should dispatch you on sight.

[/ QUOTE ]

By that logic so are blues that kill reds, so the entire game suddenly gets gw'd?

Guard zones are fine, you don't want your blue dying in one don't flag on people you can't beat/can't run away from if things go pear shaped.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

By that logic so are blues that kill reds, so the entire game suddenly gets gw'd?

[/ QUOTE ]
By your logic so are blues that kill oranges, so are you expecting warring guilds and faction players to get guard wacked as well? Do you even know what PK stands for?

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

By your logic so are blues that kill oranges, so are you expecting warring guilds and faction players to get guard wacked as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't my logic, thats still yours - you want a change, I don't.

I think theres a huge ulterior motive going on here, your guild is like 99% blue stealth archers &amp; tamers and every T2A spawn entrance other than Ice Dungeon is a guard zone. Your only competition on the shard is a all red guild.

I've heard you talk so much nonsense before Link but this one is a new level.

 

[Lord Kotan]

<blockquote><hr>

If they decide to completely remove some or all guard zones in Felucca that is fine. But murderers should not be allowed into any guarded zone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with you.. Reds don't (didn't) have to go red...

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

By being red you are a known player killer and guards should dispatch you on sight.

[/ QUOTE ]

By being a blue you are hiding the fact your in fel killing people and should be dispatched of twice as hard for trying to hide your intent.

 

[Lord Kotan]

I say, guard whack in guard zones....

or

Statloss for reds-

Take your pick

 

[Dread Raven]

What about a blue, who attacks a blue. They go grey and initiate the fight. But they get xhealed guildmates to stay alive. Shouldn't those guildmates automaticly go grey for xhealing an attempted murderer! If they are grey, they enter a GZ and get whacked immediately too. Blues have a major advantage in the game, you want to penalize reds even more. Just get rid of all GZ in fel and PvP at your own risk. Nothing forces you into Felucca.

 

[Nadirian_Wrath]

You do go grey for healing a grey.

GZ and reds are fine. There are bigger problems ig to be addressed.

 

[Karthcove]

<blockquote><hr>

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh

[/ QUOTE ]

Get rid of the red status altogether and just make everyone blue - without the bounty system, stat loss (jail time) and insurance, murdering and even pvp as a whole is nothing more than an arcade game. Bring back the bounty system and stat loss and get rid of insurance or does making the game more of the challenge it should be make you cry too?

 

[imported_Wing Chun]

JC,

Felucca was considered the evil side of the split and trammel the good. If anything the ability of reds to be in guard zones fall in step with the plotline of Felucca. Now we need to have city vendors sell only to reds and guard zones dropped completely.

 

[imported_revenant2]

<blockquote><hr>

I say, guard whack in guard zones....

or

Statloss for reds-

Take your pick

[/ QUOTE ]

Stat loss, heh?

You must not be active in the Fel champ spawn deal.

What a degradation that would be. You would get raided and all of your reds who died in the raiders' push would be useless if you wanted to push back. Both raiding and defending would be best done on blues who could die and then be useful after their first death, but your blues won't be able to lay good fields to catch other blues... and the blues would be taking counts, oh what a clusterf*ck.

 

[imported_revenant2]

<blockquote><hr>

JC,

Felucca was considered the evil side of the split and trammel the good. If anything the ability of reds to be in guard zones fall in step with the plotline of Felucca. Now we need to have city vendors sell only to reds and guard zones dropped completely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds interesting to me, I wouldn't think they were crazy if they tried that in one town or maybe all of them.

Although seriously - - - let's say they tried something new in Buc's Den - - that crazy server line down the middle of Buc's den - - I wouldn't mind a somewhat lengthy client patch download to relocate Buc's den and fix that thing!

Side note:

We collectively need to find a means to update UO Automap's data files so it picks up on such changes, I don't believe it would :/. Your automap might make such a relocated Buc's Den look like it was just a bunch of water.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

JC,

Felucca was considered the evil side of the split and trammel the good. If anything the ability of reds to be in guard zones fall in step with the plotline of Felucca. Now we need to have city vendors sell only to reds and guard zones dropped completely.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly the complaints I am hearing. Even though murderers have been let into guard zones it isn't enough. Now they want to be healed and buy from vendors. It never ends. Kick them back out. Guard zones are meant to be a safe haven for those who abide by the laws of Lord British and as long as those guards remain they should enforce the law.

The whole change has obviously not served its intended purposes, thus it should be removed. if that purpose was to encourage players to participate in Factions again it is an utter failure. I do believe more now that it was mentioned this change was specifically intended to allow players back into factions due to the shift from mostly blues to a good number of reds.

I just surveyed every murderer with a kill count on the most active shard for factions (Great Lakes) and out of 34 players only 9 were murderers or 26%.

 

[Kith Kanan]

<blockquote><hr>

I don't care about any subsequent changes, just that reds are removed from guard zones. If they removed every guard zone in Felucca fine. If they made a murderer only town fine. If they removed guard zones from moongates fine. But murderers should never have been allowed into guarded areas. By being red you are a known player killer and guards should dispatch you on sight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then peopel should not be able to burn counts AT ALL , its not like the guards dont remember you killing his neighbour Bob , just because you was afk in Luna for 3 days..... its one of the other....

 

[Guest]

I think it is important to point out that some of the people posting that murderers absolutely have to be let into towns for factions and should be allowed to cross heal, are in a faction guild of 17 characters that does not consist of a single murderer.

 

[Kith Kanan]

soooo your saying these peopel should stfu ??? and red's should not be able to play as a team ????? imho red's should be able to do anything a blue can do... as long as its in FEL , the facet of outlaws and murderers , and where peopel who dont agree can stay the hell away from.....

 

[Guest]

If Felucca is the facet of outlaws take away all the guard zones. Also please remove the private housing option so people can once again enter and kill players.

 

[imported_Wing Chun]

You are correct. Guards are there to protect those innocent people. If i remember correctly the fiction behind the tram/Fel split was that Lord British couild no longer defend the land so he created Trammel where people could safely reside.

Hows this. Why dont we let the players decide on a shard by shard basis. Blues and Guards vs Reds. Reds will be able to freely attack guards and blues in guards for a 1 week time. Make it similar to the brit invasion If the reds can push it back and defeat the guards then turn the towns over to the reds. If not then old rules where reds cant enter applies.

However, Guards cant insta teleport, guards need to be buffed down.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

rtlfc

Every entrance to T2A aside from Ice Dungeon is a guard zone. Reverting it would make scouting &amp; raiding painfully tedious. If it's tedious it's not going to happen, if it's not going to happen you just killed off an entire land that PVP still happens in.

It's a crap idea.

 

[sean_lo]

Might as well remove all laws and guards from felucca. The moment you step through the gate to felucca, you know well what you're setting yourself up for.

 

[Kith Kanan]

<blockquote><hr>

If Felucca is the facet of outlaws take away all the guard zones. Also please remove the private housing option so people can once again enter and kill players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure.. IF your red , because a a blue johnny doogooder ofc never would enter another persons house without permission , and thereby go grey aka criminal now would he , ofc being able to get on my porch wont do anyone much good , since you cant open the doors ....... and ofc banning players from ones house has been in since pre trammel so that does not need to change .... so please remove private housing .. it wont make much of a diff

 

[Guest]

You want a red to lose access to bank boxes? that's just insane because if that was the case no red could insure anything and this is why the change had to happen the introduction of insurance. I think unfair would be an understatement if blue players could insure items while red players could not.

It is bad enough losing access to almost everything except a bank and stable which are something you HAVE to have. You cannot honestly say to me that you think a red should lose the ability to stable pets and have mounts other than an ethy when a blue can have them.

Yes this WAS all about balancing the game but more than a balance it was giving each player the same function as the next a bank and stable. There is no other way around this other than making a town that only a red may enter where reds have all the things blues have. Sure I would be in favor of a red only town that had a unique rule set. But that is not how the game went so you will have to live with the current set of rules.

And on a note of personal opinion I think it is still unfair that felucca has a guard zone. Why? Because if you want to bank something safely you can do it in trammel on your blue as easily as you can in fel. To me the perfect balance would be to remove all guard zones in fel so that blues cannot hide behind them and abuse them.

 

[stevethepirate86]

ok reds not being able to go to towns in fel is just crazy just because you have a blue doesnt mean you should have anymore benfeits. now around the moongates sure drop the GZ and kiss the blues there goodbye. i have 7 charas of which one is red. i think the way things are is more towards a blue is better off. if you dont like the reds in fel attacking you in town...... ummm why are you in FEL?

 

[Razeial]

Not allowing reds into guard zones was good back in the day, because there werent guild wars, it was reds vs blues, no matter the affiliation. Reds hung out in Buccs den, and blues came to take them on. what SHOULD happen is guard zones should be removed completely from Felucca, seeing as blue players have a duplicate facet of fellucca to play on, with guards....and an additional 3 other facets for which they can play to their trammy heart's desire. Felucca should be a Murderer dominant facet. If blues want a challenge, let them come to fellucca, if not, they can stay on the other available 4 facets.

 

[Guest]

Ah, but surely "insurance" is merely a special version of the recall spell for animate objects?

I have no opinion personally, but the debate seems to go right to the core question of whether Fel is really a "pvp zone" or a "legacy environment". If its main purpose in the future is to be a wild warzone, then by all means, let factions dictate the laws under the areas they control. But, based on a lot of posts I've seen, it seems there a number of people who still see it as their original home, a legacy environment, not quite as wildly lawless as it might first seem.

 

[SouthernRageLNR]

<blockquote><hr>

Hi my name is Link. Today i was killed by a red while running into guard zone and so im type a 3 page essy about how unfair life is and do alot of complaining. If at anypoint you feel the need to vomit after reading my opinions on reds even tho iv never played one please have a trash can near by.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup looks about right to me.