Strength vs Intelligence

[DeadThing]

So, when I trained my first few pets, I followed the advice of many posts regarding the order of training and the recommended values for Str, Int, Regens, etc. And so far Ive been happy with all my 700 str pets. When it came to my nightmare however, just for grins really, I maxed his Int and Mana (mage mastery, not ideal maybe, but honestly, hes still just a mount to me) and I noticed that I could still give him 645 str all said and done. So that got me thinking, is there a specific reason to go to 700 str, or could it be worth it to back off str just a little to get a fairly significant boost to int? Testing out today I could work 670 Str and 500 int on to a Crimson Drake, and it seemed to me that the 30 less points in strength might be worth the gains in mana regen for extra Armor Ignores/Poisons, whatever.

Thoughts?

 

[Grace of Minoc]

Some of my pets I have done 652 str and 652 int. When I bless the pet, or if it has magery and it blesses itself, both stats are well over 700.

 

[Pawain]

Strength equals damage. Pets are melee damagers. But you can build tbem how you want.

 

[DeadThing]

@Grace of Minoc That's not a bad idea! I May try it on my next natural magery pet =)

@Pawain Right, and maximizing damage output is usually at/near the top of my priority list, but I am curious just how much of a difference 30 -50 points would make. Spose I can just try i out myself and find out =D

 

[Khaelor]

The answer comes down to: it depends and it's rather complicated.

Let's start with some information (following considers 120 focus/med and 30 mr):

Armor Ignore costs 30 mana.
At 370 int, with no other skills/magical abilities, a pet can cast Armor Ignore around 8.5 times a minute

Let's start with some mana regen values:

370 Int: 255/mana per minute
500 Int: 276/mana per minute (21 mana over 370 int)
700 Int: 309/mana per minute (54 mana over 370 int)

Now let's look at Str (assumes 24-33 base, 120 tact/anat):
700 str has a damage range of 110-152
670 str has a damage range of 108-149
650 str has a damage range of 107-147

Using just basic attacks:
on a 0 resist target, 700 str gives 84-140 more damage over 1 minute than a 650 str pet.
on a 0 resist target, 700 str gives 56-84 more damage over 1 minute than a 670 str pet.

So an Armor Ignore would hit for:
700 str: 99-137 3-5 damage more per armor ignore, a possible 24-40 difference in 8 armor ignores a minute
670 str: 96-132

You then have to factor in Resists, Wrestling, Armor Ignore misses, double armor ignores, other abilities or spells that a pet might use and if using that ability is worth the mana cost.

 

[DeadThing]

Fantastic. Thanks for the breakdown!

 

[Pawain]

@Grace of Minoc That's not a bad idea! I May try it on my next natural magery pet =)

@Pawain Right, and maximizing damage output is usually at/near the top of my priority list, but I am curious just how much of a difference 30 -50 points would make. Spose I can just try i out myself and find out =D

Best thing to test a Cu on is the named balrons at chaos. Time the normals and time the paragons. You can get fame, karma and honor while there if you keep the paragons off you. I timed them with 700 str 100 wrest in a thread. You could compare to that.

The mana regen you gain over time would be cancelled out by the prey being dead already if you put the str up. Thats my story and Im sticking to it.

Giant beetles work fine and they cant get 700 Str. But they have rune corruption.

 

[celticus]

The answer comes down to: it depends and it's rather complicated.

Let's start with some information (following considers 120 focus/med and 30 mr):

Armor Ignore costs 30 mana.
At 370 int, with no other skills/magical abilities, a pet can cast Armor Ignore around 8.5 times a minute

Let's start with some mana regen values:

370 Int: 255/mana per minute
500 Int: 276/mana per minute (21 mana over 370 int)
700 Int: 309/mana per minute (54 mana over 370 int)

Now let's look at Str (assumes 24-33 base, 120 tact/anat):
700 str has a damage range of 110-152
670 str has a damage range of 108-149
650 str has a damage range of 107-147

Using just basic attacks:
on a 0 resist target, 700 str gives 84-140 more damage over 1 minute than a 650 str pet.
on a 0 resist target, 700 str gives 56-84 more damage over 1 minute than a 670 str pet.

So an Armor Ignore would hit for:
700 str: 99-137 3-5 damage more per armor ignore, a possible 24-40 difference in 8 armor ignores a minute
670 str: 96-132

You then have to factor in Resists, Wrestling, Armor Ignore misses, double armor ignores, other abilities or spells that a pet might use and if using that ability is worth the mana cost.

Very nice post Khaelor. By the way : Double armor ignore, as in double strike? Are there moves that allow double armor ignore? Can you post them please? Thanks greatly..

 

[Khaelor]

Armor Ignore is a delayed proc, sometimes it will go off twice, especially when mana dumping, before it hits the first time. This causes only one armor ignore to actually land.

had to edit for clarification.

 

[celticus]

Armor Ignore is a delayed proc, sometimes it will go off twice, especially when mana dumping before it hits the first time.

Ok, so its kind of random occurrence as a double.
Thank you Khaelor.

 

[DeadThing]

Well for this drake I ended up doing 700/370 and boosting mana pool. Of course it occurred to me AFTER commiting the training that in fights of any length, or long fighting sessions (Farming Gdrags in Blackthorn for points for instance (both longer fights for me and long sessions of fighting)), my pets mana pool will be much less a factor in how many specials it can do than it's mana regen. Ah well. There's always more Drakes to tame and experiment with =)

 

[Maker2014]

The answer comes down to: it depends and it's rather complicated.

Let's start with some information (following considers 120 focus/med and 30 mr):

Armor Ignore costs 30 mana.
At 370 int, with no other skills/magical abilities, a pet can cast Armor Ignore around 8.5 times a minute

Let's start with some mana regen values:

370 Int: 255/mana per minute
500 Int: 276/mana per minute (21 mana over 370 int)
700 Int: 309/mana per minute (54 mana over 370 int)

Now let's look at Str (assumes 24-33 base, 120 tact/anat):
700 str has a damage range of 110-152
670 str has a damage range of 108-149
650 str has a damage range of 107-147

Using just basic attacks:
on a 0 resist target, 700 str gives 84-140 more damage over 1 minute than a 650 str pet.
on a 0 resist target, 700 str gives 56-84 more damage over 1 minute than a 670 str pet.

So an Armor Ignore would hit for:
700 str: 99-137 3-5 damage more per armor ignore, a possible 24-40 difference in 8 armor ignores a minute
670 str: 96-132

You then have to factor in Resists, Wrestling, Armor Ignore misses, double armor ignores, other abilities or spells that a pet might use and if using that ability is worth the mana cost.

Sweet info! Ty..

 

[Therion666]

The answer comes down to: it depends and it's rather complicated.

Let's start with some information (following considers 120 focus/med and 30 mr):

Armor Ignore costs 30 mana.
At 370 int, with no other skills/magical abilities, a pet can cast Armor Ignore around 8.5 times a minute

Let's start with some mana regen values:

370 Int: 255/mana per minute
500 Int: 276/mana per minute (21 mana over 370 int)
700 Int: 309/mana per minute (54 mana over 370 int)

Now let's look at Str (assumes 24-33 base, 120 tact/anat):
700 str has a damage range of 110-152
670 str has a damage range of 108-149
650 str has a damage range of 107-147

Using just basic attacks:
on a 0 resist target, 700 str gives 84-140 more damage over 1 minute than a 650 str pet.
on a 0 resist target, 700 str gives 56-84 more damage over 1 minute than a 670 str pet.

So an Armor Ignore would hit for:
700 str: 99-137 3-5 damage more per armor ignore, a possible 24-40 difference in 8 armor ignores a minute
670 str: 96-132

You then have to factor in Resists, Wrestling, Armor Ignore misses, double armor ignores, other abilities or spells that a pet might use and if using that ability is worth the mana cost.

Thanks for the great information. I was also making some calculations about this. According to the information you have provided, strength is a bit waste of points on pets without AI/Armor Pierce abilities as 700str pet will do only 112 more damage against a mob with 50% resist than a 600 str pet in one minute. It means 300 points which is pretty huge... When it comes to use Tactics Power Scroll, the difference is much more as you will spend much more points on Tactics PS to get pretty less damage bonus compared to Strength. 110 Tactics will give you approximately 4% damage bonus which costs 100 points. 100 points means 33 Strength. 33 Strength means around 9% damage bonus. At that point 105 Tactics PS will be enough to keep pet having over 100 Tactics to keep getting GM Tactics damage bonus even if the pet dies.

As conclusion, Strength is a bit overrated to me. It costs 3 points per each but the benefit is minimal. Unless the pet does have AI especially with Chiv, getting max Str on a pet seems utterly useless.

 

[Khaelor]

Unless the pet does have AI especially with Chiv, getting max Str on a pet seems utterly useless.

I'm not sure what you think is a good way to spec a pet. Where would you spend those 300 points from dropping str to 600 from 700?

hits? mana?

And most pets should have AI and Chiv, unless a specialized tanking pet, a beetle or you need a special move for something (para, etc), other magics and abilities are a significant dps loss.

 

[DeadThing]

I bit the bullet and made my latest drake a 645str/700int. Once I get him trained up the rest of the way I'll test him along side my 700str/370 int and see how they compare.

 

[Therion666]

I'm not sure what you think is a good way to spec a pet. Where would you spend those 300 points from dropping str to 600 from 700?

hits? mana?

And most pets should have AI and Chiv, unless a specialized tanking pet, a beetle or you need a special move for something (para, etc), other magics and abilities are a significant dps loss.

Noxmare or Runebeetle are great examples for it. You will stuck with 500hp even with mostly 110 PSs. At that point, investing in HPs and higher level of PSs are more logical way rather than wasting points in Str to get extra 100dmg for 1 minute. Especially for SPW Tamers as you can do 500-600dmg with a single WoD against under 32% HPed creatures. In addition to that, I am not saying going with 300 Str is better. I am just saying maximing it not a useful way if you are lack of points on another stats/PSs exc.

 

[Khaelor]

Noxmare or Runebeetle are great examples for it. You will stuck with 500hp even with mostly 110 PSs. At that point, investing in HPs and higher level of PSs are more logical way rather than wasting points in Str to get extra 100dmg for 1 minute. Especially for SPW Tamers as you can do 500-600dmg with a single WoD against under 32% HPed creatures. In addition to that, I am not saying going with 300 Str is better. I am just saying maximing it not a useful way if you are lack of points on another stats/PSs exc.

As I said, speciality pets and beetles. And for PVM, most content can be done with a 500 hp pet, my Void Pool tank has 400. If you are talking PVP, that's a whole other ballgame.

Most of animal training comes down to a lot of points for minimal gain.

 

[Pawain]

As I said, speciality pets and beetles. And for PVM, most content can be done with a 500 hp pet, my Void Pool tank has 400. If you are talking PVP, that's a whole other ballgame.

Most of animal training comes down to a lot of points for minimal gain.

You brought this upon yourself. Just F - ing tell the NOOBS that this has been out for a year and we already experimented with stunting the pets damage and it was a bad result.

Offense is the best defense. The more damage the pet does per hit will affect the targets ability to fight back as well. It reduces their stamina which causes them to hit slower then they get hit again which reduces again. Harder hits kill things faster. I dont use math, I use my timer thats always on for my 30 min whisper cycles. Damage works.

 

[DeadThing]

For myself, I'm just experimenting and learning, and enjoying having cool looking pets. Full disclosure: None of my pets have chiv >_>. I've taken the advice on ideal setups seriously, and when Im finished playing around Ill train up a AI chiv cu and carefully lored Gdrag. I promise =P

 

[Pawain]

We put Chiv on anything that can get it. Non magic pets kill stuff. But magic pets kill stuff faster.

You can just wear a GM crafted suit and have GM skills and kill some things. But we have moved on to killing things faster and they made things have more HP.

Any built up 5 slot pet is better than any GD you can find now. Use the new stuff.

What shard?

 

[Khaelor]

For myself, I'm just experimenting and learning, and enjoying having cool looking pets. Full disclosure: None of my pets have chiv >_>. I've taken the advice on ideal setups seriously, and when Im finished playing around Ill train up a AI chiv cu and carefully lored Gdrag. I promise =P

And new people to the system should be experimenting trying out specs.

 

[Pawain]

And new people to the system should be experimenting trying out specs.

Test Center works for that. Go to the T rex and time those low str pets vs real pets.

Then put 700 strength on all your real pets after you compare.

Trying to save them time. They are behind.

 

[Khaelor]

Trying to save them time. They are behind.

It's not necessarily a race. Behind what? To get bored and sit at the bank? For some it's the journey, some like experimenting.

 

[DeadThing]

@Pawain I play on atlantic.

And I was just being cheeky. I know the value of both self teaching/experimentation AND the recommendations of those who have already done work. Cheers.

 

[Pawain]

@Pawain I play on atlantic.

And I was just being cheeky. I know the value of both self teaching/experimentation AND the recommendations of those who have already done work. Cheers.

There are some bad builds on Atlantic. And they think those bad pets are worth a lot. Ask questions here before you copy something you see at the stable.

To get bored and sit at the bank?

Im not bored. Found someone that is providing me with some new Cus and I still need a Neon Green Hiryu.
Aslo need to stock my pet vendor and other vendors that have been neglected.

I Log my guys in when I get home and sit at the bank while I do other things on my PC or I am really afk. If all 3 guys are not there, then I am doing something.

 

[Khaelor]

There are some bad builds on Atlantic. And they think those bad pets are worth a lot. Ask questions here before you copy something you see at the stable.

Im not bored. Found someone that is providing me with some new Cus and I still need a Neon Green Hiryu.
Aslo need to stock my pet vendor and other vendors that have been neglected.

I would never listen to anyone on Atlantic about animal taming. The advice I've seen given there is atrocious and the people some look up to....people who thought dreadmares had a hidden faster attack speed or that 260 dex animals swung really fast...and those are the people they regarded there as knowledgeable. No thanks.

I wasn't talking about you and bank sitting, but more general terms. I've had this debate with a member of my alliance several times when our guild was working on a returning player center. They felt you shouldnt give returning players much, let them discover for themselves or they have nothing to earn and get bored and leave easily. I think a balanced approach is needed.

 

[Lex Darion]

Actually, I would say you will see both of the worst pets and the best pets on Atlantic.
Highest stat pets are traded and trained.

Yes, Ive seen terrible dreadmares with 1500 mana dumped into them.
But Ive also seen carefully min-maxed pets. I build them myself.

Theorycrafting, testing dps. Building pets for specific or alround use.

 

[Khaelor]

Actually, I would say you will see both of the worst pets and the best pets on Atlantic.
Highest stat pets are traded and trained.

Yes, Ive seen terrible dreadmares with 1500 mana dumped into them.
But Ive also seen carefully min-maxed pets. I build them myself.

Theorycrafting, testing dps. Building pets for specific or alround use.

I've spent a lot of time on atlantic over the past year. I'm well aware of the pets trained up there. I also spend time on other shards.

A lot of the decent Atlantic trainers Are/were Six-nine months behind good tamers and their pets on other servers.

 

[Lex Darion]

I'm not really sure how that is possible considering I reach out on boards. Read up on what others believe. I'm that good tamer
Some things Ive spotted on these boards is outright bad. While other things are interesting. But I wouldnt say the quality on other shards are much higher atm.


Just out of curiosity, what is it that you have seen that is behind ?
And how are other shards ahead in theorycrafting?

Min maxing points, selecting the skills / magic schools etc is something I do in my training spreadsheets AND tell people how not to waste their pets or money with bad choices (adding multiple magic schools... or buying exploited pets).

 

[Pawain]

Wow you took it further than me K.

Bring your builds here and we will help you. Don't be afraid to ask or make a new thread. Its been out over a year and we are still addicted.

Build them like the base pets that we have shown you here and then you can build the pet however you want. The base setup is what does the makes the other things you add to the pet work.

Just out of curiosity, what is it that you have seen that is behind ?

I am sure you build fine pets. Atlantic has the largest population so it will also have the largest spread of good and bad things for armor or pets.

Who are you on Atlantic? K visits there and I visit and stable sit and look at the pets. I've given pets to unknowledgable players there and watched them progress it to the max of their build and be very excited.

There are tamers on all shards that have pets in their stables that are untrained because they are waiting for something or they are afraid to start.

We are here to help them all.

This is the best UO Taming Forun on the internet!

 

[Lex Darion]

Who are you on Atlantic? K visits there and I visit and stable sit and look at the pets. I've given pets to unknowledgable players there and watched them progress it to the max of their build and be very excited.

Haha Im mostly anonymous.
I'm that person who drives pet prices down. Undercuts people.
Play the powerscroll market to make it drop like a rock. Then kick it into gear, raise the tactics scroll price to upwards to 90m sometimes and charge people premium for my training services. I never seem to have liquid cash though I keep buying pets for my collection.

When people have sold me pets, and I come to pick it up. Ive only heard sometimes (if they play on Atlantic), "Oh it's you".
So don't think Im that well known yet.

I've been away now on vacation for a few weeks.. but usually Im helping out teaching people how to use the system.
Avoid mistakes etc. Name starts with a D.

 

[Khaelor]

Who are you on Atlantic? K visits there and I visit and stable sit and look at the pets. I've given pets to unknowledgable players there and watched them progress it to the max of their build and be very excited.

They are a tamer that goes by the name Dellan.

I don't visit there, I have a char logged in there almost any time I am playing and a house and two stable merchants...

I buy on Atlantic, train on our home server and take back to Atlantic if it's to be sold.

 

[Khyro]

There are a lot of people on these forums that freely help others, do in-depth testing, theorycraft, post guides, give suggestions, etc. All this is done for the benefit of the taming community as a whole. I know a lot of these people will spend in-game time with new/returning taming (or even just tamers lacking knowledge of the system), even hours upon hours helping them. Some of us get more passionate than others, especially when it's in an attempt to combat misinformation.

Then there are others that come to these forums and provide very little and just learn what they from others that have done the legwork. There is nothing wrong with this approach, that is why the information is here, to better the community.

However it seems some of those people that come here and only take are also the ones that try to turn that information in a business training pets and fancy themselves paragons of taming knowledge that discovered this information themselves without anyone's help, even though there is a clear thread trail of where the information began. These are also the people that post very vague information (if any), such as "I don't disclose my builds", "i don't want this spec getting out", or other similar phrases to try to make themselves sounds "mysterious" or "secretive" or whatever they are going for. Yet the builds they use are all ones disclosed on these forums, which have been rigorously tested and vetted by others. There are several that come to mind that I will not name, but they can be found frequently on Atlantic giving horrible advice, trying to sell overpriced pets, or low-balling legacy pets from returning players that do not know better.

The taming system doesn't have a lot of depth to builds for the most part. There are standards that almost all templates follow and once you understand those standards you can succeed.. You're not going to eke out an extra 500 imbue points by training in a different order, or applying abilities differently. There are specialty builds which do require advanced knowledge of the taming system to make work, necromage comes to mind as one.

Funny enough, one of these tamers that Just hAd thE "hoLier than thou" demeAnor was adamant that dexterity affected swing speed, and was very rude/nasty with anyone that tried to correct them. Then when called out on it later, they denied it and got super defensive (even though screenshots of their claim were saved). And yes, they were from Atlantic. I have seen more exploited pets on Atlantic than any other shard (though another unnamed shared comes VERY close). People blatantly flaunting them around, claiming they are legit or "bugged" or "glitched", etc. No names, but one brazen Atlantic exploiter really likes Pokemon.

I've also seen more HORRIBLY spec'd pets on Atlantic than any other shard. Granted Atlantic gets more traffic than other shards, and there are some shards I don't go to, but it is pretty safe to say that general taming advice from anyone on Atlantic is probably pretty terrible.

 

[Lex Darion]

I've also seen more HORRIBLY spec'd pets on Atlantic than any other shard. Granted Atlantic gets more traffic than other shards, and there are some shards I don't go to, but it is pretty safe to say that general taming advice from anyone on Atlantic is probably pretty terrible.

This is because people transfer their trash-pets to try to offload on Atlantic

Also I post my pets in public, so no secrets to my builds. And a if I run a business, I only run true and tested builds.
Chiv + AI is always pretty safe for CU's.
Disco + AI etc.

Sometimes I splurge and do something fun with cblast.
Mega AOE spammy goo builds with SW or mysticism hehe.

None of my builds are secret, just for the sake of wanting to improve and minmax things.

 

[DeadThing]

Well I've just been taught not to name drop the shard I play on ever again. Probably too late, but whatever. The advice I've got and found here has been solid, quick and detailed answers to questions that have probably been asked dozens of times =)

 

[Pawain]

Well I've just been taught not to name drop the shard I play on ever again. Probably too late, but whatever. The advice I've got and found here has been solid, quick and detailed answers to questions that have probably been asked dozens of times =)

I ask in case someone here can help you on your shard. Didn't mean for it to lead to so much criticism.

There are other posters here from Atlantic.

 

[Mordha]

Over this past weekend, I was at crazed mage. And saw someone who claimed to be an “expert” give some bad advice. I tried to get them to look at this forum for what they were asking but didn’t want to go through that bother. So a legacy mare became a mess
On a side note, I was told that training a fire beetle is a total noob move and I messed up by not giving it goo. I gave mine AI, RC and poisoning. Once I finish the training, I’ll post pictures in the proper thread. Personally, I think I did ok.

 

[DeadThing]

Haha, @Pawain I figured it was just an attempt to help out and I appreciate it. Nothing wrong with sharing negative views or experiences either, It just made me smirk a little that the horror stories started so quickly. I was coming here for advice anyway (As opposed to asking at the mage for instance), so no worries.

As for Atlantic, my tamer is Melatheris, so if any of us cross paths at the crazy mage, or anywhere else, feel free to say Hail!

 

[Khyro]

Well I've just been taught not to name drop the shard I play on ever again. Probably too late, but whatever. The advice I've got and found here has been solid, quick and detailed answers to questions that have probably been asked dozens of times =)

I guess I should clarify that I know not all tamers on Atlantic are bad, I know my post sounded that way. However in my experience, the most vocal tamers in general chat or around Luna seem to be the ones giving absolute horrible advice. And it's not just that they give bad advice, they seem unwilling to listen to any advice from others as they believe themselves to be infallible.

 

[DeadThing]

Fair enough. I almost never join general chat, and rarely go to Luna unless I'm meeting someone so I probably miss a lot of the chest pounding.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

I would never listen to anyone on Atlantic about animal taming. The advice I've seen given there is atrocious and the people some look up to....people who thought dreadmares had a hidden faster attack speed or that 260 dex animals swung really fast...and those are the people they regarded there as knowledgeable. No thanks.

I'm predominantly on Atlantic nowadays, and i've done a massive amount of testing with pets. Of course, i stay out of Gen Chat (that thing is cancer), rarely visit Luna, and never bank sit. I also don't use the Crazed Mage to train pets, too crowded. It's usually just some guildies asking me for pet advice in game.

The next big thing, is going to be 6xLeg Tamer/Mages with Disco+Conductive Blast Cus/Unicorns, to synergize with Slayer Death Ray. The Cu will be tankier than the Unicorn, but the Unicorn will spam Conductive Blast far more often for increased Death Ray damage.

 

[celticus]

I'm predominantly on Atlantic nowadays, and i've done a massive amount of testing with pets. Of course, i stay out of Gen Chat (that thing is cancer), rarely visit Luna, and never bank sit. I also don't use the Crazed Mage to train pets, too crowded. It's usually just some guildies asking me for pet advice in game.

The next big thing, is going to be 6xLeg Tamer/Mages with Disco+Conductive Blast Cus/Unicorns, to synergize with Slayer Death Ray. The Cu will be tankier than the Unicorn, but the Unicorn will spam Conductive Blast far more often for increased Death Ray damage.

Nice! Can you explain Slayer Death-ray a little? First of all is it only with magery mastery? Then does it act like a true Slayer (double damage of triple damage to anything -- all monster slayer like?) Is it only just energy?
And does magery mastery still suffer the known negatives like "protection" spell that lowers your pets resists a lot? Also if you add magery mastery to a pet that already has magery will it still proc the regular magery spells?
Does Death ray effectiveness depend on EVAL and Magery level of t he pet?
Lastly : If you just add magery mastery to a pet that has no magery will it still proc the regular magery spells in addition to the magery mastery spells? Great thanks in advance. This is interesting..

 

[Pawain]

Nice! Can you explain Slayer Death-ray a little? First of all is it only with magery mastery?

I also would like more info on this. How would not having a 120 scroll make death ray be as good as 120. All the other masteries have a greater benefit with 120 scrolls.

Also this means you have to choose magery mastery, correct? Does it outweigh the negatives of choosing mastery on a mage pet.

Thanks

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

I'm talking about Magery Mastery on the character, not the pet. Death Ray damage is based on Magery, Eval, and Mastery Level. It's NOT affected by SDI. It deals Energy Damage, so anything that reduces the opponent's Energy Resist will buff Death Ray's damage output. Death Ray itself also lowers the victim's Energy Resist by 10, stacking with Disco/Rune Corruption/Conductive Blast, even into the negatives. When Pub 100 goes live, for a player wielding a Super Slayer spellbook, Death Ray will deal +100% Damage to the appropriate target, and for a character wielding a Lesser Slayer spellbook, Death Ray will deal +200% damage to the appropriate target.
On a char with 120 Magery/120 Eval/Lvl 3 Magery Mastery and using a Dragon Slayer spellbook, i've done 530+ damage Death Ray ticks to a discorded Greater Dragon that was under Conductive Blast. It's basically WoD level damage at any health, and ticks every 3 seconds.
Death Ray has some limitations though. It's very mana intensive (50 Mana on initiation, 35 per tick, subject to LMC) if you move it cancels the channel, if you get hit it cancels the channel (why tank is important), if you use any item (even in your pack), it cancels the channel, and only one Death Ray can be active at a time on a single target.

A good template for it, is the good ol' 6xLeg Tamer/Mage template. 120 Taming/120 Lore/120 Vet/120 Magery/120 Eval/120 Med. Since this template lacks Discordance, you'll want Discordance on your pet to further buff Death Ray damage. Rune Corruption and Conductive Blast will also boost Death Ray damage. Only a few pets are capable of learning both Discordance and Conductive Blast at the same time, the foremost being the Cu Sidhe and Unicorn. The Cu Sidhe has the advantage of being especially tanky and being able to self heal with bandages, but it's going to be wasting time and Mana on Bleed attack. The Unicorn is less tanky than the Cu Sidhe, but is completely immune to the Poison status, and can be trained to know nothing but Discord and Conductive Blast, so once it gets Discord off, it'll spam Conductive Blast, giving it more of an uptime vs the Cu's CB uptime. Disco+CB Cu=Tankier, Disco+CB Unicorn=More Damage.

Selecting Magery Mastery for Death Ray on a Tamer/Mage means you can't use Combat Training: Consume Damage while Magery Mastery is active, so you're basically trading pet defense (Consume Damage) for more offense (Death Ray). Although, the best defense is a good offense...

 

[celticus]

I'm talking about Magery Mastery on the character, not the pet. Death Ray damage is based on Magery, Eval, and Mastery Level. It's NOT affected by SDI. It deals Energy Damage, so anything that reduces the opponent's Energy Resist will buff Death Ray's damage output. Death Ray itself also lowers the victim's Energy Resist by 10, stacking with Disco/Rune Corruption/Conductive Blast, even into the negatives. When Pub 100 goes live, for a player wielding a Super Slayer spellbook, Death Ray will deal +100% Damage to the appropriate target, and for a character wielding a Lesser Slayer spellbook, Death Ray will deal +200% damage to the appropriate target.
On a char with 120 Magery/120 Eval/Lvl 3 Magery Mastery and using a Dragon Slayer spellbook, i've done 530+ damage Death Ray ticks to a discorded Greater Dragon that was under Conductive Blast. It's basically WoD level damage at any health, and ticks every 3 seconds.
Death Ray has some limitations though. It's very mana intensive, if you move it cancels the channel, if you get hit it cancels the channel (why tank is important), if you use any item (even in your pack), it cancels the channel, and only one Death Ray can be active at a time on a single target.

A good template for it, is the good ol' 6xLeg Tamer/Mage template. 120 Taming/120 Lore/120 Vet/120 Magery/120 Eval/120 Med. Since this template lacks Discordance, you'll want Discordance on your pet to further buff Death Ray damage. Rune Corruption and Conductive Blast will also boost Death Ray damage. Only a few pets are capable of learning both Discordance and Conductive Blast at the same time, the foremost being the Cu Sidhe and Unicorn. The Cu Sidhe has the advantage of being especially tanky and being able to self heal with bandages, but it's going to be wasting time and Mana on Bleed attack. The Unicorn is less tanky than the Cu Sidhe, but is completely immune to the Poison status, and can be trained to know nothing but Discord and Conductive Blast, so once it gets Discord off, it'll spam Conductive Blast, giving it more of an uptime vs the Cu's CB uptime. Disco+CB Cu=Tankier, Disco+CB Unicorn=More Damage.

Selecting Magery Mastery for Death Ray on a Tamer/Mage means you can't use Combat Training: Consume Damage while Magery Mastery is active, so you're basically trading pet defense (Consume Damage) for more offense (Death Ray). Although, the best defense is a good offense...

Sry for initial misunderstanding. This is great work! Thank you!
Now I stillwonder about the pet magery mastery death ray. Do pets do that special? Does it work? Im burning to learn, guess will have to go to TC1 and see how it works with my Bane and PP mare!

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Sry for initial misunderstanding. This is great work! Thank you!
Now I stillwonder about the pet magery mastery death ray. Do pets do that special? Does it work? Im burning to learn, guess will have to go to TC1 and see how it works with my Bane and PP mare!

Yes, pets that learn Magery Mastery will use Death Ray. It turns out to be a DPS loss in most cases though, because they entirely stop melee attacking and casting other spells while they're channeling Death Ray. The channel still get's canceled if they get hit during it, which turns it into a huge waste of Mana. Pets with Magery Mastery have an entirely different spellcasting AI than normal Magery pets. They love to Teleport to target (Necromage pets do this too), and will cycle between E-Bolt and FS (Mind Blast if the target is a lot weaker to Cold) while occasionally throwing in a Death Ray, Magic Reflection (which lowers their own Physical Resist...), or Bless (on the foe...) until they run low on Mana, then they'll switch to lower level spells and debuffs, and will try to Mana Vampire their foe to regain Mana. A Serpentine Dragon (which spawn with up to 1,040 INT) with Magery Mastery can deliver some pretty hefty Mind Blast damage (which is based on INT and Magery), but it still doesn't make up for their lack of melee damage output.

 

[celticus]

Yes, pets that learn Magery Mastery will use Death Ray. It turns out to be a DPS loss in most cases though, because they entirely stop melee attacking and casting other spells while they're channeling Death Ray. The channel still get's canceled if they get hit during it, which turns it into a huge waste of Mana. Pets with Magery Mastery have an entirely different spellcasting AI than normal Magery pets. They love to Teleport to target (Necromage pets do this too), and will cycle between E-Bolt and FS (Mind Blast if the target is a lot weaker to Cold) while occasionally throwing in a Death Ray, Magic Reflection (which lowers their own Physical Resist...), or Bless (on the foe...) until they run low on Mana, then they'll switch to lower level spells and debuffs, and will try to Mana Vampire their foe to regain Mana. A Serpentine Dragon (which spawn with up to 1,040 INT) with Magery Mastery can deliver some pretty hefty Mind Blast damage (which is based on INT and Magery), but it still doesn't make up for their lack of melee damage output.

TY for info..The spec is majorly STILL bugged. Im sure this is not working as intended..Wish the devs knew this..Magery mastery on pets as it is now as it seems till Sucks..

 

[Max Blackoak]

to get this back to the original topic:

is there a calculator for pet's mana regeneration that figures in intelligence? Or can anyone tell me how it is calculated?

Trying to figure out whether to raise int on my crimson drake from 125 to 200 is worth spending less points on hp and mana...

 

[Khaelor]

to get this back to the original topic:

is there a calculator for pet's mana regeneration that figures in intelligence? Or can anyone tell me how it is calculated?

Trying to figure out whether to raise int on my crimson drake from 125 to 200 is worth spending less points on hp and mana...

Khyro is working on one now to go along with the dps one he created.

125 to 200 is about 2 mana/ten seconds or just over 12 mana/minute.

 

[Max Blackoak]

Khyro is working on one now to go along with the dps one he created.

125 to 200 is about 2 mana/ten seconds or just over 12 mana/minute.

thanks! looks like I need to find this Khyro person...does he/she have a website?

12 mana per minute is not worth it to me I guess... alright, int remains at 125 for this one