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Some thoughts about how to keep our new young players

CorwinWE2

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
I'm not done with Siege, just rethinking my role there...I shall return to die another day. I just need to figure out how to deal with the losses I will face without having to run away from the shard.
Cool. That's what I'm talking about. btw, let me throw a hint out for you in case it's still legit. I ran around with pets and rarely got PK'd even when my character was in training. Once your magery is high enough to gate reliably from a scroll, set the default location of a rune book to a safe spot, and setup a UOA macro to click a gate scroll in the pouch and target your rune book. There may be other ways that I'm not remembering, but the key trick is to have a macro that automatically burns a gate scroll. It's much faster and I can't even recall it getting interrupted. Go around with magic reflect on, and have some trapped pouches just in case you get para'd. Your "para pouches" should be keyed to macros as well. Personally, I used a re-trapping macro that sometimes got me in trouble, but was good enough most of the time.

If you stick to surface areas, you simply shouldn't die.

As far as Dungeons go, you might just leave your pets behind when you see PKs (if you're not comfortable fighting with them) and just take off for an exit. The better you know the Dungeon you're in, the better you'll know how to get around. Keep in mind, Wall of Stone and Energy Field are your friends as they can buy you crucial time to escape.

While you're in training, think hard about how you use your extra skill points. If you can still buy them up to 30, for instance, you may be able to instantly get a usable level in any number of skills. Back when I played, even 30 in hiding or tracking could be useful to elude and detect attackers. Once your taming is high enough, you should be able to tame a mobile defense weapon like a nightmare or whatever is cool these days. Don't be afraid to use it or any other pets you have at hand as a distraction to help you get away. Again, you want to setup macros so you can easily target a player on screen and issue an All Kill/Last Target command.

Once you can avoid dying to other players, all you have to worry about is dying to monsters, and the key here is to pick places where you can quickly get to a healer, don't carry more than you can afford to lose, and of course to bank often. When you die, get to a healer, use a charged rune book to get back to the bank, grab something like 5 of each reagent (or better yet a prepared pouch of 5 of each). If you're not high enough skill, grab a great heal scroll and an inviso scroll. Heal yourself up, gate yourself back to the spawn area, pre-cast the inviso scroll and run to your corpse and then use it. Loot your body, and if you got there first, quick enough ... you're back in the game. Also when picking your farming spot, keep in mind that PKs dislike dealing with spawn and areas that are hard to reach. As you become more experienced, you may want to take advantage of that.

Anyway, what I know is probably greatly obsolete, but this is the sort of thing that vets on the shard who want to truly encourage new players to Siege and not new victims should be writing up and making sure new players are aware.
 

Draxous

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The problem is loot. I don't have the desire to play like I used to. I have mils sitting in my bank and nothing to buy because the stuff I want is too high end. We come back and ask for things in massive WTB threads and a few things here and there. It's not like I can't do this **** myself. I just no longer want to.

Fighting and dying and getting looted is not the problem. It's the point.

Back in the beginning of UO, a player could go out and get basic stuff (readily) and play. With AoS, and specifically item insurance, this game shifted to a different system. Everything's high end (where it mattered) and you just have to play the PvE/craft game long enough to get there.

The way UO used to work is that a crafter made something and someone used it. There wasn't making 1000 things and someone used it. Same with monsters. Go to khaldun and farm the tenticles for force/power/vanq... etc. etc. People fought. Died. Thousands of times over. If you were dumb, you could end up with nothing, but it wasn't hard for average or casual players to get going.

Siege has more expensive everything. It should be the other way around at this point. The point should be to play. Crafters should have so much stock they don't know what to do with it.

I dunno. It's broken. I'm not playing in any meaningful way here, so whatever.
 

Skunk

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I am shutting down the account with the tamer anyways. I have my main account with a mule on siege. This should prove more useful to the shard anyways.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
 

CorwinWE2

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
I dunno. It's broken. I'm not playing in any meaningful way here, so whatever.
Well, as far as I'm concerned all of UO is broken, but if you really want to play Siege, it's possible to adapt your playstyle to work with what's common and affordable. All part of rising to the challenge and finding a niche.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
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I am shutting down the account with the tamer anyways. I have my main account with a mule on siege. This should prove more useful to the shard anyways.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
Yes we need a lot crafter on Siege, as one of the thing that make players give up is, if they have to search a lot vendors before they find new stuff after dying. The crafters need farmers as they don't have time to do both crafting and hunting for resources. Crafting take far to long time now, special imbuing 5x70 resist is time easing.

On Siege we don't have many mules, most of our crafters do have personality :)
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
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Well, as far as I'm concerned all of UO is broken, but if you really want to play Siege, it's possible to adapt your playstyle to work with what's common and affordable. All part of rising to the challenge and finding a niche.
The last years had been good for Siege but we need life back around the player town, the forest, the swamps and the desert. To make that happen, we need most of the crafting resources back on the overland, special stuff for unraw, more gems, it's just to slow to mine for it. It's fine the upper resources comes from dungeons, but it should be possible to get at least a few relic from hunting overlands spawn for an hour. Maybe make a few new spawn like the lich, brigand and orc spawn and give it a chance to drop new loot like from Shame level 1.

In old days, there was players everywhere and PK's was roaming the land to find them, that's one thing I miss.
 

Draxous

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Well, as far as I'm concerned all of UO is broken, but if you really want to play Siege, it's possible to adapt your playstyle to work with what's common and affordable. All part of rising to the challenge and finding a niche.
Thanks, because I realize you're trying to be positive. You're talking to the wrong guy. Rising to the challenge? lol. It's not a challenge.
I've played Siege for years and years and am decently established. It's --to me-- a huge waste of my time and what everyone I want to fight spends too much of their time on. Between work and family, the commitment to put up with it's brokeness is pretty low on my priority list.

Thanks.
 

Pendragon

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I plan on making my luna house the one closest to the gate new player friendly and targeted specifaclly to people new and from other shards, so they dont have to roam the lands looking for vendors, this was my biggest trouble when i came here. If anyone has a vendor house they love in their location im contemplating the idea of putting house teleporters in my luna house to your vendor house, so its a 1 stop shop. for new people, you would have to supply the teleporter but i think its a good start to helping new people.
 

CorwinWE2

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Thanks, because I realize you're trying to be positive. You're talking to the wrong guy. Rising to the challenge? lol. It's not a challenge.
I've played Siege for years and years and am decently established. It's --to me-- a huge waste of my time and what everyone I want to fight spends too much of their time on. Between work and family, the commitment to put up with it's brokeness is pretty low on my priority list.
Oh, that's fine, but this thread started with Freja asking players on Siege who think its fun to kill, dry loot, and not rez obvious newbies to cut it out, and I've never found it to be very productive asking jerks to not be jerks. A Siege player should be willing to succeed in spite of them, if not find a way to get their revenge on them, and the players who actually care about the health of the shard can help them by letting them knows ways of going about it or like PopN offer support.
 
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FrejaSP

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Oh, that's fine, but this thread started with Freja asking players on Siege who think its fun to kill, dry loot, and not rez obvious newbies to cut it out, and I've never found it to be very productive asking jerks to not be jerks. A Siege player should be willing to succeed in spite of them, if not find a way to get their revenge on them, and the players who actually care about the health of the shard can help them by letting them knows ways of going about it or like PopN offer support.
Maybe it depend who ask :p Maybe they are not jerks. I believe most of our reds want more players to fight so I'm just reminding them, if they kill all the lamb, we never get a large herd of sheeps. Tease them, let them run a little, if they die, let them keep their suit.
Sometimes they just forget to go easy on the youngest, also the ones without NEW2 tag.
 

kaio

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Hi all.
So far iv'e been pk'ed a couple of times.
No biggie really but i was PK'ed by blues, and i was dry looted every time. ( i mean come on, was the reds really that busy..i'm so dissapointed )

The main problem for us newcommers, is that it's hard to get new gear.
Most loot are crap, unless you hunt in shame/wrong. But at those places the spawn is in general tougher, and you also have to fight the badguys.

Suits are fairly cheap around 10k++ for a new low end 100%lrc suit, but you need to kill alot of ettins to get the gold, and you need to find a shop selling.

I'm not sure what can be done to "keep" the new sheeps.
When i login (im from europa) the shard seems fairly empty. When i finally meet people, they usually try to kill me..So my toon is in fairly good shape (exercise wise)
Just my 2 cents..

Iv'e been on siege for like 2 weeks...
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
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Kaio did you join NEW2? Else contact me when you are on.
The fact, that the killers was blue, could mean it is new PK's, not red yet and they too have hard replacing their stuff.
Also use gen chat if you can't find a suit on ventor, there may be some willing to help.
 

Draxous

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Oh, that's fine, but this thread started with Freja asking players on Siege who think its fun to kill, dry loot, and not rez obvious newbies to cut it out, and I've never found it to be very productive asking jerks to not be jerks. A Siege player should be willing to succeed in spite of them, if not find a way to get their revenge on them, and the players who actually care about the health of the shard can help them by letting them knows ways of going about it or like PopN offer support.
Conversations do evolve, you know. I can appreciate your contributions to the continuity of this, if you promise to stop trying to bring us back to the beginning.

These individual ideas that people have on what Siege should or shouldn't be is a big part of the problem. It's supposed to be fun and it's not. It's not fun for the newb who needs to run, scamper and hide to protect what little they have, rather than contributing, fighting, dying, and being part of the action at every level and upwards. It's also not fun for the vet who spends hours upon hours farming say silver, so they can pvp the way this game is designed instead of the watered down way Siege quietly pushes.

Part of the problem is peoples individual ideas on what "hard" should mean. Is it harder to farm more than on prodo while fighting against people with minimally powerful gear or is it harder to reasonably obtain decent gear and fight more people who are also decently geared?
 

CorwinWE2

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Maybe it depend who ask :p Maybe they are not jerks. I believe most of our reds want more players to fight so I'm just reminding them, if they kill all the lamb, we never get a large herd of sheeps. Tease them, let them run a little, if they die, let them keep their suit.
Sometimes they just forget to go easy on the youngest, also the ones without NEW2 tag.
I've seen a player who roleplayed a rat, but I never ran in to one who liked to roleplay a "sheep". Teach them to be wolves. For starters, teach them not to die.
 

Pendragon

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
This may happen i dont know as i never joined new2, but iwould like to see a system where Old timers with more money in there bank then time. exchange a limited amount say 1 million for the new comers shard money. so if there from europa we trade 1 mill sp for europa gold. giving them a jump start so they can keep up with alot of the problems.
 

CorwinWE2

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
It's supposed to be fun and it's not. It's not fun for the newb who needs to run, scamper and hide to protect what little they have, rather than contributing, fighting, dying, and being part of the action at every level and upwards. It's also not fun for the vet who spends hours upon hours farming say silver, so they can pvp the way this game is designed instead of the watered down way Siege quietly pushes.ntly geared?
If it's easier to farm other players than to farm monsters, then farm other players. Eventually the good stuff will get distributed and the playing field leveled. When I farmed or tamed, it was always with an eye out for a fight. I used a PvP tamer, not a PvM tamer - so I could easily do both.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
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This may happen i dont know as i never joined new2, but iwould like to see a system where Old timers with more money in there bank then time. exchange a limited amount say 1 million for the new comers shard money. so if there from europa we trade 1 mill sp for europa gold. giving them a jump start so they can keep up with alot of the problems.
There is players who will trade prodo shard gold for Siege gold, but not 1 to 1, it will cost you somewhere between 5-10 mill prodo gold to get 1 mill Siege gold, depending of how lucky you are, I think 7-8 mill is what most pay.

I do however believe you will have more fund trying to make it without trading money.
 
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Claire Repair

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...while whacking some mobs and searching for some mage scrolls I was PKed last week. It happened out of the blue and I hit all the wrong buttons on my keyboard and thus saw grey within seconds. ;) The Adrenaline rush reminded me that it is Siege I´m playing on. The PK was nice and polite - he took all my gold but the suit remained on my body. Short conversation with the PK. (Which was nice) Next time I will be bit more clever and bit more a challenge for the PK.
That´s what Siege is all about?
Hope so. ^^

*waves*

Claire aka Matty
 

CorwinWE2

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
It happened out of the blue and I hit all the wrong buttons on my keyboard and thus saw grey within seconds. ;) The Adrenaline rush reminded me that it is Siege I´m playing on.
That's one reason I recommend setting up some simple macros that you can use to accelerate your escape. The less thinking you have to do, the better. What I didn't mention, is practice helps. It's not the same as a real attack, but you do need to get your fingers used to certain strategies when you're under attack ... whether that's re-mounting after getting dismounted, getting out of a para, using your aids and heal pots, using the teleport spell if stuck on foot, and having a macro to cast gate from a scroll.

If you can train to escape an attack from a friendly, at least there's a chance you'll be able to pull it off .vs. a PK.
 

kaio

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't think having 100mill on siege will help a newbie with 70 magery a whole lot... (or fencing or whatever skill)
I think making simple events could help newcommers. go to desp level 1, farm some spinned leather. Make some suits out of it.

CorwinWE2, has a good point. But i would rather suggest learning pvp basics on either TC1, or on a prodo shards. Because on siege you might end up loosing your'e best suit if you loose. (not that it matters so much if you wear a 10k suit anyways)

I would really like a trapbox, so i could avoid getting paraganked, but does anyone know how many ettins i have to kill, to get 10k to buy one ?

I have one char in New2, I think they are doing a great job.
 

Draxous

Grand Poobah
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Stratics Legend
If it's easier to farm other players than to farm monsters, then farm other players. Eventually the good stuff will get distributed and the playing field leveled. When I farmed or tamed, it was always with an eye out for a fight. I used a PvP tamer, not a PvM tamer - so I could easily do both.
Have you played Siege since 09-10?

There's nobody to farm for what I need/want. Killing people does not yield useful ****. Started with factioned owned. I can't expect to kill someone rocking a crystalline ring I can use. I can't expect any orny to drop. Ever. The rules are not designed for this kind of gameplay. Toss in hero/evil dye and it's compounded.

A PvM player can't go out and say I'm going to earn me an orny tonight. A crafter can't make a shame/covetous worthy piece w/o a lot of wasted time/effort. The whole point of end game is to play. This is the sickness the original ultima online community suffered. It used to be a constant interaction. It had little to do with population given how full barely populated freeshards can feel. It was all these different people doing different things at the same time and sharing the fruits amongst each other. Now it feels like standing in line at the lotto booth. Want a +20 scroll? Grab some buddies to get the job done and if it happens to spawn, you can roll dice for it. lol

It's funny because it's one of the things that's probably keeping UO going. Event candy dangling from a stick.

I'm trying to just play at this point with my time. I'm sick of standing in lines at lotto booths.
 

FrejaSP

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Have you played Siege since 09-10?
I believe it's more like 10 years sinse Corwin played Siege, so many thing he don't know about the game we have now :p

There's nobody to farm for what I need/want. Killing people does not yield useful ****. Started with factioned owned. I can't expect to kill someone rocking a crystalline ring I can use. I can't expect any orny to drop. Ever. The rules are not designed for this kind of gameplay. Toss in hero/evil dye and it's compounded.

A PvM player can't go out and say I'm going to earn me an orny tonight. A crafter can't make a shame/covetous worthy piece w/o a lot of wasted time/effort. The whole point of end game is to play. This is the sickness the original ultima online community suffered. It used to be a constant interaction. It had little to do with population given how full barely populated freeshards can feel. It was all these different people doing different things at the same time and sharing the fruits amongst each other. Now it feels like standing in line at the lotto booth. Want a +20 scroll? Grab some buddies to get the job done and if it happens to spawn, you can roll dice for it. lol

It's funny because it's one of the things that's probably keeping UO going. Event candy dangling from a stick.

I'm trying to just play at this point with my time. I'm sick of standing in lines at lotto booths.
It is one of the problems, items are still to hard to get/find. It take far to long time of farming and crafting. I think most imbuers gives up stocking good suit like LMC suit as they need to do shame to get unraw for relic, then it's a pain to add 5x70 resist. If they then want 2MR on each piece, they need to grow alot plants too to get the seed for it. All in all, it take a hell of time to make just one suit, time a crafter could use to make more suits to sell and the one who make his own suits could use alot of that time to do what he like best, fighting other players.

If Devs can short the time it take to farm resources and to craft, Siege may be more fun. I would like an increased drop of everything, that be resources or artifacts.

In old days, I only had to kill some animals, mine a little, craft some gm armor and weapon and stock my vendors. I had time to make pots, scrolls, furnitures too. Now it's hard to just stock 1-2 good suits a day. No wonder we have so few vendors selling good armor
 

CorwinWE2

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
I'm trying to just play at this point with my time. I'm sick of standing in lines at lotto booths.
Yeah, I've been gone for a while. I did play under AOS for a while until I got sick of the itemization of UO, the monetization of UO, and the lies from EA; but my main point is timeless. :)

Individual hardships such as getting PK'd all the time can be overcome by learning how to deal with it, or by adapting a playstyle that doesn't risk more than you can afford to lose. If you have fundamental issues with how things work on a shard that can't be worked around, then don't play. *shugs*
 

Draxous

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Stratics Legend
If Devs can short the time it take to farm resources and to craft, Siege may be more fun. I would like an increased drop of everything, that be resources or artifacts.
Yep.

If I hit up the gauntlet and succeed it, I should get an artifact of my choice. If I kill an effusion peerless boss, I should get a crystalline ring and a crimmy. No standing in line. You earn it, you get it. PKs and anti-Pks can determine how hard it is to earn it.

Wow. It almost sounds like UO I'm talking about here.
 
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CorwinWE2

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Back when I actually cared about Siege, my vote just would have been to remove all the loot-based-garbage - not to dish it out at higher rates. From a PvP perspective, you want a fairly low threshold to reach the competitive level ... and any extra effort towards farming should grant a bonus, but nothing too imbalancing.
 

Draxous

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Stratics Legend
Back when I actually cared about Siege, my vote just would have been to remove all the loot-based-garbage - not to dish it out at higher rates. From a PvP perspective, you want a fairly low threshold to reach the competitive level ... and any extra effort towards farming should grant a bonus, but nothing too imbalancing.
You've spent a decade commenting on a game you played for 5 years. You're like a decade out of touch. The content is mostly good. You missed out on a lot. Siege has simply not been tweaked to experience the game as it's designed.

I hope they tweak it. It could be lots of fun again.
 

FrejaSP

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Yep.

If I hit up the gauntlet and succeed it, I should get an artifact of my choice. If I kill an effusion peerless boss, I should get a crystalline ring and a crimmy. No standing in line. You earn it, you get it. PKs and anti-Pks can determine how hard it is to earn it.

Wow. It almost sounds like UO I'm talking about here.
I'm sure more would be willing to risk dying in PvP of it was not so hard to replace stuff, that be from doing PvM to get it them self or buy it at their favorite vendor or to craft it and get the resources them self of find a shop selling them.

If less time was needed to get items, there would be a lot more time for interacting, that be PvP, making events or just hanging out with friends doing stuff.
 

FrejaSP

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Back when I actually cared about Siege, my vote just would have been to remove all the loot-based-garbage - not to dish it out at higher rates. From a PvP perspective, you want a fairly low threshold to reach the competitive level ... and any extra effort towards farming should grant a bonus, but nothing too imbalancing.
Get in the game Corwin, a lot have changed to the better since AoS and if it was not for the time issue from farming, gathering and crafting, everything is great now, it would be damn boring to go back to GM armor and old skills. Imbuing did, that we can control this different mods and it give us a lot more freedom. how a char do in PvP depend of his choice of template and how he mix it with mods on his gear and how he play the char.
 

Dacatge

Adventurer
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Freja,
Ye has always done a good job on helping the young of siege. And as far as the "huntin gatherin and crafting" i have Capt to hunt people and Dacatge to gather and craft. There is a way. Find a guild, have two or three of your friends run with ya. Three half trained blues can run off most solo pks. But you also have to understand. If you hunt in the prime locations you will get found. I personly have seen many people earnin money in Illsh. Now the items are not as good. the the point is earn your gold get your loot. have an Imbuer makes some good stuff. Also your crap items can be unravelded to help with the cost of Materials in the imbuing prossess. There is ways around it all then when you fully trained moderatley armored and ready for a fight. just how i fell

Captain Sureno
 

FrejaSP

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I agree Captain but no matter what, we keep loosing players and many of them came here to PvP but gives up again. We had hoped the new housing rule would help but it was not enough to keep them. It may only be small changes we need to balance it.
Devs could try with 2x resource loot and fame like in Fel on normal shards, and remove the 3x prices, we really don't need them. If gem prices dropped to same price as normal towns, imbuers could make the suits cheaper.
Also increase drop of imbuing resources from loot, just don't increase the gold drop.
Maybe increase the chance for artifact drop too.
If we can lower the time it take to gathering resources and artifacts, I'm sure we will see more vendors selling imbued gear and artifacts.
 

CorwinWE2

Adventurer
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Get in the game Corwin, a lot have changed to the better since AoS and if it was not for the time issue from farming, gathering and crafting, everything is great now, it would be damn boring to go back to GM armor and old skills. Imbuing did, that we can control this different mods and it give us a lot more freedom. how a char do in PvP depend of his choice of template and how he mix it with mods on his gear and how he play the char.
Neither I nor most of the PvP'ers I've known would find it boring to fight with the same old skills and some old gear ... but that battle was lost, long ago. Clearly the people who remain are going to be the people who enjoy the item-based play style. Merchants had been asking for the power to create objects better than players could farm, and the combination of the two systems is the right way to go about it. Personally, I was never in favor of it. The more hoops you have to go through to be competitive, the more exclusive PvP becomes - which means it's going to inevitably dry up. IMO, you guys might as well just ask for item insurance and be done with it.
 

Dacatge

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I dont agree Corwin. Insurance would defiantly be the death of us all. And i can pull stuff off monsters that blow imbued armor away. But like all things In Siege is that you have to work for it. I do like Freja's point about the mat's dropping more frequently since our population is so low. even tho we have more pop then most of the prodo shards. Its still the fact that Corwin wants the old UO. Im sorry man that went out with AOS. So us on Siege are trying to make the best of it. I personally used to run Shame loot EXCLUSIVELY. now its imbued. but some of that loot i would trade for my imbued suit anyday. Its a give and take Corwin you have such a negative look on it, and yes its not what it used to be. And PVP has always been exclusive to those who can fight and those who have armor. I wuldnt expect my son of seven to jump right in and pvp he needs to work to that learn to fight. If you dont learn to fight or put up a fight diein then craft make gold. We try and keep the new Siege people form being soft. Being to soft here, ends up you getting killed and never comming back. When we came to this shard NEW/Freja helped us out and after our month we started our own guild joined factions and started fighting. So it is possible for people to stay and enjoy. but we as a community have to pull together and let them know it can be done. AND IF YOU DONT LIKE HOOPS GO TO TC1 and then you dont have to work for nothing. theres no pride in your game. IMO.


Captain Sureno
 
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Ariana RiverWind

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
I agree Captain but no matter what, we keep loosing players and many of them came here to PvP but gives up again. We had hoped the new housing rule would help but it was not enough to keep them. It may only be small changes we need to balance it.
Devs could try with 2x resource loot and fame like in Fel on normal shards, and remove the 3x prices, we really don't need them. If gem prices dropped to same price as normal towns, imbuers could make the suits cheaper.
Also increase drop of imbuing resources from loot, just don't increase the gold drop.
Maybe increase the chance for artifact drop too.
If we can lower the time it take to gathering resources and artifacts, I'm sure we will see more vendors selling imbued gear and artifacts.



((I personally like the fact that its not a cake walk. I mean come on, from a crafters stand point I don't want the loot easier to get,that will make the gold slide differently. I LOVE the fact that this economy is not screwed up like the prodo shards.. its not polluted. I came over because of the housing and friend talked me into it.. i'm glad I did SP has become a wonderful place that I want to spend most my time in. The fact that you have to hunt and gather and run home or to the bank to stash it in hopes that you don't loose it, is one of the great things about this shard. This isn't Tram! Thank the heavens for that. People take pride in their work. Weather it is tailoring, carpentry and so on, so i'm not so sure about jumping on the ban wagon about extra loot being dropped. As far as insurance I don't think siege needs it. Think about how it would ruin the player community....IMO )) *shrugs*
 
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FrejaSP

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Yes but have you tried your hands on imbuing yet? it is very time eating.
 

Dacatge

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((I personally like the fact that its not a cake walk. I mean come on, from a crafters stand point I don't want the loot easier to get,that will make the gold slide differently. I LOVE the fact that this economy is not screwed up like the prodo shards.. its not polluted. I came over because of the housing and friend talked me into it.. i'm glad I did SP has become a wonderful place that I want to spend most my time in. The fact that you have to hunt and gather and run home or to the bank to stash it in hopes that you don't loose it, is one of the great things about this shard. This isn't Tram! Thank the heavens for that. People take pride in their work. Weather it is tailoring, carpentry and so on, so i'm not so sure about jumping on the ban wagon about extra loot being dropped. As far as insurance I don't think siege needs it. Think about how it would ruin the player community....IMO )) *shrugs*

I agree with that and no its not been a cake walk. to this day i still look over my shoulder when farmin. And the extra drop would make sense, for the high end crafter type. But what they have done is the overland spawn that drops shame/wrong/cov loot its not the safest but you can still farm. If the gave us more of those. i think people would be more apt to stay. It takes me a few mins on Capt to get there. but i do check. Things like that for improvement not just change.
 

CorwinWE2

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I wuldnt expect my son of seven to jump right in and pvp he needs to work to that learn to fight. If you dont learn to fight or put up a fight diein then craft make gold.
That reminds me that back when I was the GM of the guild called the Skara Brae Rangers on LS, one of our members (who later became the GM) had an 8yr old son who wanted to join the guild. We refused to let him in, because he was too immature, nevertheless he always hung around and when a fight broke out ... he'd jump right in, swing his mace at any target he could catch, and typically die because he kept forgetting to bandage himself.

One of the semi-notorious players/PKs on Atlantic back in the early days started playing when he was 12. He was known as Snow and Human Shield on Siege.

Back in the day, you got involved in PvP by fighting. You equipped what you had, and even someone equipped with a poisoned newbie dagger, some bandages, and a rez robe could be a threat in a larger fight. Not much of a cost of entry, there either. In the early days of Siege, a lot of PvP'ers ran around on foot because they didn't want to pay 2000gp every time they died to replace it.

Anyway, Siege isn't for me and hasn't been for years. So by all means ask for whatever you want. I just think you guys would have better luck retaining new players if you could help them deal with the challenges they're going to face. Waiting for the devs to fix things on Siege has never been a productive strategy ...
 

Draxous

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Neither I nor most of the PvP'ers I've known would find it boring to fight with the same old skills and some old gear ... but that battle was lost, long ago. Clearly the people who remain are going to be the people who enjoy the item-based play style. Merchants had been asking for the power to create objects better than players could farm, and the combination of the two systems is the right way to go about it. Personally, I was never in favor of it. The more hoops you have to go through to be competitive, the more exclusive PvP becomes - which means it's going to inevitably dry up. IMO, you guys might as well just ask for item insurance and be done with it.
UO was always item based. And how out of touch you are bleeds through your philosophy. Apparently when you played back when, you never fought characters like my dexer. Indestructible of invulnerabilty plate suit with indestruct of invuln chain leggings tucked underneath. DP'd vanq spear/kryss, along with over 500 charges of magic reflect. That's 70 AR, 500 charges of magic reflect, max DI, HCI, and DP to boot. It took a handful of mages double hally hitting me solo to bring me down. No one could touch me 1v1 b/c of items. Items have always been a part of this game.

Insurance has nothing to do with what I'm asking for. It's the opposite of what I'm asking for. Insurance is the lotto booth design. You play the PvM/Craft game until you hit high end and then you're done. I'm asking for Siege to be tweaked so it lines up with the content of this game and works like it's designed to. That means the important stuff is attainable and open to be fought over. Won. Lost. Stolen. A.K.A. the UO way.

The whole point of Siege is the community. This puts power back in the communities hands. Does anyone really think if they turn on the faucet, the PKs won't influence the flow?
 

Draxous

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((I personally like the fact that its not a cake walk. I mean come on, from a crafters stand point I don't want the loot easier to get,that will make the gold slide differently. I LOVE the fact that this economy is not screwed up like the prodo shards.. its not polluted. I came over because of the housing and friend talked me into it.. i'm glad I did SP has become a wonderful place that I want to spend most my time in. The fact that you have to hunt and gather and run home or to the bank to stash it in hopes that you don't loose it, is one of the great things about this shard. This isn't Tram! Thank the heavens for that. People take pride in their work. Weather it is tailoring, carpentry and so on, so i'm not so sure about jumping on the ban wagon about extra loot being dropped. As far as insurance I don't think siege needs it. Think about how it would ruin the player community....IMO )) *shrugs*
This economy is screwed up. I and several others post buy threads and the response is crickets. There are so many useful items players simply won't go after because it's not worth their time. I can't agree with how you imply some of the things you are. If you think about how this would ruin the community, then you're dreaming. The only reason prodo economies are ruined is because of duping and the nature of item insurance. If they did not have insurance, their economies would have recovered from the dupes as people used up/lost the items and found that they had to get more.

Like people still wouldn't run to the bank with a crystalline ring if they got one... Maybe we'd see people actually selling things that aren't just a few shades above mongbat loot. Maybe instead of locking down useful things in a players home, they'd *gasp* venture out and use it.

The biggest reason why Corwin remembers way back when the way he does is because back then 99% of the population was too scared to risk items of real use/value. Today's UO with production shards and the dev team's focus on those shards design, balance and function. It only makes sense for the Siege playerbase to have better access to those same items being used. So we can fight for them. Trade/sell them. Steal them. Use them. Lose them. This idea that you quietly push has done enough damage. Doing 10-20 effusion for 1 crystalline ring is not harder. It's more boring and annoying. Same thing with doing 1000 gauntlets for 1 orny. What's harder is trying to get it done with players trying to kill you whle you do it. That is why Siege is the hard shard.

The status quo is not an economy. It's molasses. I'd like to see an actual economy.
 
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Dacatge

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The biggest reason why Corwin remembers way back when the way he does is because back then 99% of the population was too scared to risk items of real use/value. Today's UO with production shards and the dev team's focus on those shards design, balance and function. It only makes sense for the Siege playerbase to have better access to those same items being used. So we can fight for them. Trade/sell them. Steal them. Use them. Lose them. This idea that you quietly push has done enough damage. Doing 10-20 effusion for 1 crystalline ring is not harder. It's more boring and annoying. Same thing with doing 1000 gauntlets for 1 orny. What's harder is trying to get it done with players trying to kill you whle you do it. That is why Siege is the hard shard.

The status quo is not an economy. It's molasses. I'd like to see an actual economy.


This i agree with nothing is worth getting. Most of us fight in decent imbued armor or Shame loot. If i could take my crew out and after a few runs no matter what get a good item. We pirates use the items we gather, or sell them. But this started with keeping young players here. I think the increase of loot would make it more desirable to be here. A greater chance to get the item you want. Plus a greater time of we PK's to kill for these items. I am fairly new to siege so i didnt get to experience the old populated siege, but i wouldn't mind more people runnin about.
 
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FrejaSP

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I agree with you both, better drop to make up for no insurance would make sense and a PvM'er who had used days or even months to get a special item, only to lose it the day after may give up. If he know, he could use maybe a day to replace it and one more to get a spare one would would not fear getting PK'ed so much and would be more willing to try to fight back and risk his items.

I hope Mesanna read this thread
 

CorwinWE2

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UO was always item based. And how out of touch you are bleeds through your philosophy. Apparently when you played back when, you never fought characters like my dexer. Indestructible of invulnerabilty plate suit with indestruct of invuln chain leggings tucked underneath. DP'd vanq spear/kryss, along with over 500 charges of magic reflect. That's 70 AR, 500 charges of magic reflect, max DI, HCI, and DP to boot. It took a handful of mages double hally hitting me solo to bring me down. No one could touch me 1v1 b/c of items. Items have always been a part of this game.
It sounds like you're mixing up eras, heh ... but yes, there have always been players who'd take advantage of whatever high-end gear was available at the time - go have their fun - and eventually get taken down and lose it all.

And then OSI/EA started allowing blessed items...

The beginning of the end started with Cleanup Brittania, when they handed out bless deeds as a reward. Fortunately, not many of them were handed out, but then cheaters duped them. When AOS came out they introduced personal bless deeds, and clothing bless deeds suddenly became a hot commodity thanks to clothing based artifacts.

If I killed a mage wearing a Hat of the Magi, it wasn't mine to use. As soon as he was rezzed, he'd have that spell casting advantage once again. Faction players had their blessed items too.

So yeah, there were always items, but AOS made it integral to the game play.

Insurance has nothing to do with what I'm asking for. It's the opposite of what I'm asking for. Insurance is the lotto booth design. You play the PvM/Craft game until you hit high end and then you're done. I'm asking for Siege to be tweaked so it lines up with the content of this game and works like it's designed to. That means the important stuff is attainable and open to be fought over. Won. Lost. Stolen. A.K.A. the UO way.

The whole point of Siege is the community. This puts power back in the communities hands. Does anyone really think if they turn on the faucet, the PKs won't influence the flow?
The goal of most PvP'ers I knew was to be done. Some of them couldn't even stand to build their own 7x character. Why should they? It has nothing to do what they'd come to enjoy in the game. It just struck me that after all these years, that Siege is still struggling with the introduction of uber-items without insurance. I'm sure the devs would be glad to put insurance on Siege, but they've never been inclined to invest time to do something unique and even if they did make a quick change to drop rates, they'd no doubt just mess up some other dynamic on the shard that they'd ignore for 5 years.
 

Hattori Hanzo

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I'm not done with Siege, just rethinking my role there...I shall return to die another day. I just need to figure out how to deal with the losses I will face without having to run away from the shard.
Most of us have been there. We come to SP for the danger, then something hits us at just the wrong moment. I made a vengeance list to keep myself satisfied. By the time I was well established here I was friends with some of the people on the list.
 

Draxous

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The goal of most PvP'ers I knew was to be done. Some of them couldn't even stand to build their own 7x character. Why should they? It has nothing to do what they'd come to enjoy in the game. It just struck me that after all these years, that Siege is still struggling with the introduction of uber-items without insurance. I'm sure the devs would be glad to put insurance on Siege, but they've never been inclined to invest time to do something unique and even if they did make a quick change to drop rates, they'd no doubt just mess up some other dynamic on the shard that they'd ignore for 5 years.
 
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Dacatge

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Corwin all we get is one siege blessed item. Clothing bless deeds do not work on arties anymore. You can only bless cloths with no stats. And factions dont have blessed anything. We of siege have one item. Me i bless my sword. but thats all you get. That was their compromise to folks that feel that the bless deeds were a bad idea. And i agree CBD and arti jeez that would be bad and really unfair, but they had fixed some of that.

And Draxous i agree about them messing something up, but its worth a shot to see what happens. And as far as insure meh thats pointless here on siege. Might as well play a prodo shard.
 

Dacatge

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Most of us have been there. We come to SP for the danger, then something hits us at just the wrong moment. I made a vengeance list to keep myself satisfied. By the time I was well established here I was friends with some of the people on the list.

When Grace and I came over we were hunted and had enemies then those enemies became friends and now enemies again. Its a cycle of Siege. We didnt give up we tuffed it out and Now look we are established. Have a great guild and play our game to have fun and profit :p. I just hope some younglings read some of this so they understand that its possible to make it from nothing.
 

kelmo

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If ya start singin' the circle of life... :twak:
 

FrejaSP

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The goal of most PvP'ers I knew was to be done. Some of them couldn't even stand to build their own 7x character. Why should they? It has nothing to do what they'd come to enjoy in the game.
They can buy a mystic token and start with 5x90 in skills and with the version we have of RoT now, it's not that high to get to 120. They can already start PvP'ing, just fill out with some other skills that can be dropped later, that be healing, hidding or something else.

It just struck me that after all these years, that Siege is still struggling with the introduction of uber-items without insurance. I'm sure the devs would be glad to put insurance on Siege, but they've never been inclined to invest time to do something unique and even if they did make a quick change to drop rates, they'd no doubt just mess up some other dynamic on the shard that they'd ignore for 5 years.
Item Insurance is the last thing we would want here, it would total ruin the shard and the community. Sure Siege was the forgotten shard in the past but that have changed, Mesanna have done alot for us and she had been on the shard several tmes to ask what we want about the houses, the the adv and mystic token and other stuff to be sure she got an ansvar from players who really play Siege and not from prodo shards players and long gonee players like you hanging out here without knowing anything about the game we have now.

True we still have a little trouble with items but if the the time to craft or farm items could be shorter, it would help alot. A second char could be nice too but I would hate to see 7 char slots.

It take time to heal the damage from the past but we can see the light now and we had not been ignored the last years.
 

Dacatge

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Item Insurance is the last thing we would want here, it would total ruin the shard and the community. Sure Siege was the forgotten shard in the past but that have changed, Mesanna have done alot for us and she had been on the shard several times to ask what we want about the houses, the the adv and mystic token and other stuff to be sure she got an ansvar from players who really play Siege and not from prodo shards players and long gonee players like you hanging out here without knowing anything about the game we have now.

True we still have a little trouble with items but if the the time to craft or farm items could be shorter, it would help alot. A second char could be nice too but I would hate to see 7 char slots.

It take time to heal the damage from the past but we can see the light now and we had not been ignored the last years.[/quote]



This is a very true statement. We were having problems with faction vendors. Her and two of her team spent a whole day with us in Vesper :p She stayed and talked left to fix came back untill the problem was fixed. Now mind ya it took our whole guild pagging for some action but it was immediate after we paged tho :p But we still are the RedHeaded Step Child :p oh well we will make the best of it.
 

Pendragon

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IT seems To me alot fo this thread has gone away from what we can do to problems with the game we cant fix, Just my two cents. IVe talked with freja and will work towards helping new player with what we discussed, I would think that would be better way to hit out goal, is to see what people say on here that can be done. then ask what can we do? cuz we cant change the game
 
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